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Bringing the second kitten home

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Amanda Jones - 07 May 2004 00:56 GMT
He's in perfect health, apparently. Not Elijah's brother, he's too young,
although because of malnutrition, the vet isn't keen to guess his age.

It wasn't love at first sight, sadly. I put the closed box near Elijah, so
that he could smell it, but he didn't appear interested. Eventually, we
opened it, and my flatmate held Elijah and I held Josiah, and we wandered
around the living room, gradually passing a bit closer. Suddenly, E seemed
to twig - his body turned instantly to steel, and he started the deep
throated growl. We held them nearer, they sniffed noses, then Elijah spat.

So we separated them for a bit, my flatmate took Elijah to his room, I fed
and watered the baby.

We tried again later, I put Josiah near Elijah in the kitchen, and Elijah
sniffed from a distance for ages, then growled a but. J turned tail
slowly, and wandered into the living room, and Elijah followed a foot or
so behind, sniffing all the time. J was backed into a corner, with Elijah
smelling him, growling, and with the occasional hissy-spit. Then Elijah
swiped at his nose, so I separated them again.

What next? Any tips? Josiah feels pretty shaken up, it appears, so I won't
shove them together again yet. Should I let things take their course, or
keep them apart unless very closely supervised? Help!

Amanda
Gee - 07 May 2004 01:52 GMT
> He's in perfect health, apparently. Not Elijah's brother, he's too young,
> although because of malnutrition, the vet isn't keen to guess his age.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Amanda

Although many people will tell you to keep them apart, I would let them get
on with it cos keeping them apart will only prolong the process. I let all
mine just get on with it, and it never took more then a week or two. Keep
them together and let them do what cats do, sniff growl and hiss. Just watch
over them and don;t interfere unless you see some awful fighting. Remember
the advice from my last post,where I mentioned how cats work on smell first,
so make them smell the same with some tuna brine/cat shampoo, and give E
lots more attention then a newbie. They have to establish the rank and who's
the boss. Newby also has to get used to new territory which as for now
belongs to E, and they both know it, and neither is currently happy with the
current situation. It's NORMAL! Give them some toys to distract them, and
LOTS of treats, bribe is never more important then at the introduction.

Don't worry they are both young so give them 4-5 days tops and they'll be
playing together. I expect hissing will last at least couple of days. So I
do believe this weekend you'll spend at home :)

I would only keep them apart if the things are really really bad. But some
smacking and lots of hissing is perfectly normal. When my QT arrived at 3
months old, Shadow was furious, (and adult). She hated him. She beat the
cr#p out of him, literarily raising her front paw like a human high above
her head then smacking him so hard he'd fly across the floor to the other
side. But he took it like a real man and persistently tried to win her
heart. It took him a week to win her over, and then they became soulmates! I
swear to God, if there were ever soulmates, it was two of them. They played
together, ate together and slept together. They loved each other to bits. So
much so that when QT got run over 8 months later, Shadow went into serious
depression and refused to move from the window until Tigger came 2 months
later and shook us both out of grief. She has then behaved similar to him as
well, but accepted him eventually and although they are not soulmates, she
likes him.

Saying that, Shadow took a bit longer to approve of Charlie and Sparkie(who
came as adults) and she quickly-and painfully to them- establish she is the
boss and not under any circumstances to be mess with. And they don't! They
never fight, but Shadow will give them her famous smack if they come too
near :)

So, just do the right thing and make sure you are creating the positive
association between the kittens by doing all their favorite things(food
stroking toys and treats-LODSA treats) while they are both there. And
nothing when they are alone in the room. DO NOT PUNISH in any way which I'm
sure you wouldn't, maybe just a little NO or hand clap if you see one really
hurting the other, and the other is crying in pain. Or a tiny spray of
water. But if they do get on they will do probably a lot of playfighting, so
you must make sure is it real fight or playfight. My Charlie and Sparkie
playfight at least once a day, but I know its just a game which they both
love even though it can be painful to them at moments when they bite each
other too hard, or pull hair. They still both initiate it and are happy to
join in. But if Shadow passes by, I can see the defensive behavior as they
both will immediately lie on their back and show her the stomach. See Shadow
accepted them in the pack, but they are not allowed to mess with her! She
sorted them out at the beginning and boy do they know who's the boss :)

Anyways, keep us updated on progress, I so envy you right now for enjoying
too kittens and am going to watch my videos when Tigger came and was a
little nutter :)
Amanda Jones - 07 May 2004 05:04 GMT
> Although many people will tell you to keep them apart, I would let them
> get
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> watch
> over them and don;t interfere unless you see some awful fighting.

Thanks for the detailed advice, I appreciate it. I'm just worried that the
new smaller kitten is really frightened by Elijah - his heart was banging
away when Elijah cornered him, and I don't want him traumatised and
unfriendly for life!

What about overnight? I've separated them tonight, should I stick them
both in the kitchen tomorrow do you think?


> Remember
> the advice from my last post,where I mentioned how cats work on smell
> first,
> so make them smell the same with some tuna brine/cat shampoo, and give E
> lots more attention then a newbie.

I did the tuna water thing, it didn't help today, I'll try again tomorrow
(-:

Amanda
Agua Girl - 07 May 2004 13:48 GMT
> What about overnight? I've separated them tonight, should I stick them
> both in the kitchen tomorrow do you think?

I wouldn't.  I would keep them separate unless you are around them
until they settle in.  If the kitten is scared now..can you imagine how
he is going to feel if you aren't there to reassure him?

It won't take long, at that age they should adjust and will probably
become very good friends.  Keep doing the scent thing where you
rub a towel on one of them and then transfer the scent to something
else.  Maybe you could rub a towel on each of them and then
switch the towel and leave it with the other for the night.  That way
they could spend the night getting adjusted without feeling threatened?

AG
Ted Davis - 07 May 2004 16:46 GMT
>Although many people will tell you to keep them apart, I would let them get
>on with it cos keeping them apart will only prolong the process. I let all
>mine just get on with it, and it never took more then a week or two.

I've dont that, with really bad results.  The new cat is always
terrified, and if forced to deal with threats (and frequent fights)
from every direction all the time, they usually run away as soon as
they discover how to get out.  After a few days in the bathroom, new
cats are still terrified, but the residents are far less hostile.

T.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu)
SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D."
somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected.
M.C. Mullen - 07 May 2004 01:59 GMT
| What next? Any tips? Josiah feels pretty shaken up, it appears, so I won't
| shove them together again yet. Should I let things take their course, or
| keep them apart unless very closely supervised? Help!
|
| Amanda

Congrats getting the new kitten, it will work out I'm sure, but give them
time.
I think the little one needs some hours per day alone in a room to be able
to investigate and to get sound sleep.
I would only let them near each other when supervised until you can be
absolutely sure that none gets hurt.
I guess this takes about a week or ten days, maybe quicker, but you have to
be patient.
Stroke the two, play with them so that they gain confidence.

Carola
Amanda Jones - 07 May 2004 18:17 GMT
> I think the little one needs some hours per day alone in a room to be
> able
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> be patient.
> Stroke the two, play with them so that they gain confidence.

I kept them apart while I was at court today, and then mixed them in my
room with food and having put tuna-water on both today.

Elijah jumped on Josiah a few times, which made J give these pathetic
squeaks that made my heart go out to him (-:

Now, however, Elijah is asleep on my knee, and Josiah's asleep on the bed
next to us.

Amanda
Agua Girl - 07 May 2004 02:13 GMT
> What next? Any tips? Josiah feels pretty shaken up, it appears, so I won't
> shove them together again yet. Should I let things take their course, or
> keep them apart unless very closely supervised? Help!

Congrats on your second rescue.
I read a story about how one cat was introduced into
the home of another.  They started off sniffing through
the door..then they put up one of those kiddy gates and
they sniffed and growled through the gate...and eventually
they just stared at each other through the gate.  Seemed like
a good idea and it worked well for the writer.

AG
Ted Davis - 07 May 2004 02:36 GMT
>He's in perfect health, apparently. Not Elijah's brother, he's too young,
>although because of malnutrition, the vet isn't keen to guess his age.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>shove them together again yet. Should I let things take their course, or
>keep them apart unless very closely supervised? Help!

Don't hold them - don't force anything.  Let them discover each other,
first by scent, then by sight.  Keep them separated, but where they
can smell each other.

T.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu - e-mail must contain "T.E.D." or my .sig in the body)
'cedes - 08 May 2004 02:30 GMT
This behaviour is VERY normal. By this time next week they will be tied into
a knot together...playing.  Don't sweat it. They WILL become best of buddies
within a day or two. Carol
> He's in perfect health, apparently. Not Elijah's brother, he's too young,
> although because of malnutrition, the vet isn't keen to guess his age.
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Amanda
Amanda Jones - 10 May 2004 00:34 GMT
> This behaviour is VERY normal. By this time next week they will be tied
> into
> a knot together...playing.  Don't sweat it. They WILL become best of
> buddies
> within a day or two.

They seem to be happier now.

And my b-f is really warming to them - either that, or the half-hour he
spent playing with both kittens and the cat tree was some sort of weird
masochism, as is the fact that Elijah's asleep on his knee ATM (-:

Yossie's been here for 72 hours now, and things have really settled down.
No growling / spitting after the first 24 hours, except when Yossie pushed
Elijah out of the way and his face out of the kitten food (fair enough!).

they do "fight" quite a lot, but not really with claws. We aren't leaving
them together overnight yet, though.

When they are fighting, every so often Elijah gets Yossie in a headlock
and bites his neck, and Yossie starts squealing. If you rescue Yossie and
take him on your knee, he jumps down and goes for Elijah's tail, so I
think he's not really bothered by it, I hope not, anyway!

A friend of mine and her 9 year old daughter came for dinner - guess what
the attraction was for the latter? After they left, we lost both of them
for the first time, and found them both asleep under a bed. We called
Elijah, and he woke up and came out, and looking under the bed there was
another smaller white ball curled up there!

So <phew> gamble worked (-:

Amanda
Gee - 13 May 2004 02:31 GMT
"Amanda Jones" <avjones@cix.co.uk> wrote in message

> Yossie's been here for 72 hours now, and things have really settled down.
> No growling / spitting after the first 24 hours, except when Yossie pushed
> Elijah out of the way and his face out of the kitten food (fair enough!).
>
> they do "fight" quite a lot, but not really with claws. We aren't leaving
> them together overnight yet, though.

I believe its been about a week now so you could start. They ll be fine;.

> When they are fighting, every so often Elijah gets Yossie in a headlock
> and bites his neck, and Yossie starts squealing.

Squealing is OK, its how cats talk and say "hey stop it,  it hurts". Which
is why its a good idea for you to also squeal when they start biting your
fingers, which they will, and even though it wont hurt now while they are
young, it will hurt later, so you must do it from this age, and each and
every time they bite you, even if it doesn;t hurt!

If you rescue Yossie and
> take him on your knee, he jumps down and goes for Elijah's tail, so I
> think he's not really bothered by it, I hope not, anyway!

I don't think so, its just playfighting, which yes can get painful, but if Y
goes straight back after E, it means he is loving the game and wants more.
Id let them play, and deal with things themselves. This way they learn to
fight their own battles.

> A friend of mine and her 9 year old daughter came for dinner - guess what
> the attraction was for the latter?

He he he, I know what you mean, I had serious number of visitor while mine
were kittens, and somehow-oddly- number of guests dropps as they grow he he.

> After they left, we lost both of them
> for the first time, and found them both asleep under a bed. We called
> Elijah, and he woke up and came out, and looking under the bed there was
> another smaller white ball curled up there!

Excellent they have bonded so well they are sleeping together, or near
enough! That's beautiful, I'm really pleased 4 ya.

> So <phew> gamble worked (-:

I had no doubts :)

Listen, make sure you have them neutered before 6 months old so the male
hormones don't kick in too much(spraying, trying to escape etc)
Also, just a peace of advice, if I can suggest anything at all, its this:
Get a video camera NOW and start recording them in these beautiful kitten
days. They grow far too fast, and start sleeping all day pretty much, so
record this beautiful moments before they grow up :)

And put some pics on the web for us, I'd love to see the little rascals :)

> Amanda
M.C. Mullen - 13 May 2004 14:16 GMT
| > After they left, we lost both of them
| > for the first time, and found them both asleep under a bed. We called
| > Elijah, and he woke up and came out, and looking under the bed there was
| > another smaller white ball curled up there!

Amanda, what do your kittens look like, you mentioned that Elijah is mostli
white, is that correct?
Have you got some pics?

| And put some pics on the web for us, I'd love to see the little rascals :)

Yes, please, I love the story about your kittens. Hope you never ever regret
getting them!

Carola
Amanda Jones - 14 May 2004 11:41 GMT
> Amanda, what do your kittens look like, you mentioned that Elijah is
> mostli
> white, is that correct?
> Have you got some pics?

Yossie is white, almost all over, with a grey stripy
bit between his ears, and a white tail. Elijah is very white too, with the
black tail, black ear spot, and two 5p-sized black bits on two of his
legs.

I've sent you photos by e-mail too, while I figure out sticking them on
the web!
Amanda Jones - 14 May 2004 11:41 GMT
> I don't think so, its just playfighting, which yes can get painful, but
> if Y
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> to
> fight their own battles.

Yes, they both seem to love it.

Elijah is also teaching Yossie things. We have a big post for them to
scratch, and when Yossie was scratching a chair, Elijah cuffed him over
the head, dragged him to the post, and Yossie started on that!

Elijah is very clever - he knows his name, and usually comes when called.
The exception was last night. He's twigged that if people are brushing
teeth, pouring glasses of water, and turning lights off, he's about to be
incarcerated for the night in the kitchen. So last night, when I went to
find him, he and Yossie were both behind the (huge, heavy) sofa, in a
line, as there's not room for both side by side (and they can't curl up
either, they have to lie in a line!).

When I called him, he looked at me with a "yeah, right" expression, and I
couldn't be bothered to start shifting crap at that time of night!

Yossie is gorgeous, friendly, clumsy, and thick (-:

A couple of days ago, my boyfriend heard Yossie screaming like mad, legged
it into the living room to save his life from Elijah's attacks....

and found Elijah pinning Yossie down with one paw and washing his head,
obviously disapproving of his hygiene standards (-:

> > After they left, we lost both of them
> > for the first time, and found them both asleep under a bed. We called
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Excellent they have bonded so well they are sleeping together, or near
> enough! That's beautiful, I'm really pleased 4 ya.

Now you rarely see one without seeing the other. They are either playing
together, or asleep together, so that you can't quite tell which leg
belongs to which kitten (-:

My mother says kittens, like little boys, have two modes, manic and off
(-:

> I had no doubts :)

I know, me of little faith...

> And put some pics on the web for us, I'd love to see the little rascals
> :)

I'll try, I have some - I've sent you a couple by e-mail, so don't worry
they are dodgy virus attachments (-:
Amanda Jones - 14 May 2004 12:47 GMT
except, as your e-mail isn't valid, I can't do that (-:

Mail me directly if you're interested.

Amanda
 
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