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Cat Forum / General Topics / April 2004rescued kitten
I suddenly have a cat (well, a kitten) I was strolling along between work and the lunch I was intending to buy, when I heard a mewling from a pile of rubbish. I thought it was a rat, and the rubbish wobbled a bit, but it sounded cat-scared-like, rather than ratty. So I found the right bin-bag, and untied it (cautiously) to find it empty apart from a dead (definitely dead) kitten, and a live black kitten, howling quietly with distress. I took it home to my flat, which isn't far away, and discovered it was seriously dehydrated but wouldn't lap, so I dipped a sock in water and it sucked that. I took it the a vet, who says it's a he, approximately 8 weeks old, and in good health. He wormed it and got rid of some ear mites. The odd thing is that the vet's pretty sure that until the last 24-48 hours he was well looked after, and since bringing him back home that seems even more likely. He's developed properly, he's not malnourished, he had no obvious signs of worms or any other parasites, no obvious fleas. Back in my flat, he eats and laps kitten milk quite happily, maybe he was just shocked earlier. And he uses a litter tray with no need for training or encouraging him to do so. He seems bright and curious, and he likes people - he purrs when he's stroked, and climbs all over people to check them out. he's not actually a black kitten either - when we washed him at the vet's, he turned out to be a white kitten all over apart from a tabby-black tail and a small black splodge between his ears; he's the whitest cat I've seen. How realistic is it to keep him, bearing in mind I live in the middle of London in a second-floor flat and he could never go outside? He's not a pedigree which could be a pampered house cat, and he's extremely lively and athletic. My parents always had cats when I was a child, but they had the cat flap and could come and go any time they fancied it. Would the kitten hate being kept permanently indoors? I've never heard of a moggy being kept inside all the time; the odd pedigree cat, yes, but not a moggy. Is it fair on him? Amanda I have 4 'moggies' that are indoors 24/7 even though I own my own home & have a large yard, it's because I live on a busy road & have seen too many dead critters to let my kitties become one of them. They LOVE sitting in the windows, especially when they are open (they are all screened), but other than that, seem perfectly happy.  SignatureThe ONE and ONLY lefthanded-pathetic-paranoid-psychotic-sarcastic-wiseass-ditzy former-blonde in Bloomington! (And proud of it, too)? http://www.geocities.com/the_magic_mood_jeep/ http://community.webshots.com/user/mgcmdjeep > I suddenly have a cat (well, a kitten) > I was strolling along between work and the [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Amanda The fact that they sit in the windows doesn't necessarily mean they want to go out there. It's interesting to watch. My cat sits looking out the window for a few hours a day, but he likes to watch; he has NO desire to go out there. He was abandoned when someone moved away and he was outdoors and homeless for several days; he's been outdoors and he wants no more of it, thank you very much! > I have 4 'moggies' that are indoors 24/7 even though I own my own home & > have a large yard, it's because I live on a busy road & have seen too many [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > > > Amanda Might I tell you about wha tI do with my two. It takes a while to get used to, but they do eventually. My cats go for walks with me. Yes, I said "go for walks" I put them on leashes and they get to go outdoors and explore, mark their territory, whatever they wish. I also have a deck in which they can be tied out on, and just chill outside for a while. They love it!!! Safety of being an indoor kitty with the benefits of being an outdoor kitty!!! > The fact that they sit in the windows doesn't necessarily mean they want to > go out there. It's interesting to watch. My cat sits looking out the [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > > > > > > Amanda > I also have a deck in which they >can be tied out on, and just chill outside for a while. But only when you're also on the deck with him, right? It's not a good idea to tether a cat unsupervised. Sherry Amanda, The kitten can live quite happily indoors. I have seven of my own, and none of them go outside. I have never let a cat out to roam the neighborhood - too many dangers - like cars. Also, the shelters I foster for will not let you adopt a cat unless you plan on keeping it indoors. He will find ways to amuse himself, not to worry. And how can he miss something he doesn't really know? And how nice of you for rescuing a kitty in need! I hope things work out well for you! JoJo > I suddenly have a cat (well, a kitten) > I was strolling along between work and the [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Amanda > The kitten can live quite happily indoors. I have seven of my own, and > none [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > let > you adopt a cat unless you plan on keeping it indoors. How odd - I assume you aren't in the UK? The shelters here demand you spay / neuter a cat, but the general assumption is that cats go outdoors. I've never heard of a cat run over by a car, out of the 10s of cats I've known from my family and friends' families. The RSPCA's animal advice web pages say a cat needs (among lots of other things) access to a safe outdoor environment. My parents' cats, the 5 they've had since I've been alive, have all had free access night and day to the great outdoors through a cat flap. > And how nice of you for rescuing a kitty in need! I hope things work > out > well for you! I don't think anyone could have left him struggling in a bin bag! Thanks to everyone for the pointers. I'm taking him to the vet for a thorough check, and I think I'll discuss the matter with him. Amanda > > The kitten can live quite happily indoors. I have seven of my own, and > > none [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > never heard of a cat run over by a car, out of the 10s of cats I've known > from my family and friends' families. That was very lucky. My QT got run over 3 weeks before his 1st b-day. My neighbours cats got run over. I often drive to work and have seen many cats dead on the road in the mornings. I have last Sunday even witnessed a cat being run over near where I live. I took it to emergency vets, but it was too late. Unfortunately cat had no ID, nor microchip and owners couldn;t be traced. And not just cats, our London foxes get killed on the road a lot too. I so love the foxes. So , don;t risk. Not worth it. No matter whay RSPCA thinks about it, nobody will tell me I should let my cats out again and get a second one killed. Maybe if I lived somewhere in the countryside with no cars, or if I had a big fence up garden I would, but as it stands no way. Gee >> The kitten can live quite happily indoors. I have seven of my own, and >> none [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > >Amanda If you have never seen or heard of a cat being run over by a car, you are either young or live in a very remote area. In the cities, it is a frequent occurrence. > If you have never seen or heard of a cat being run over by a car, you > are either young or live in a very remote area. In the cities, it is > a frequent occurrence. Neither, I'm 26 years old and have always lived in London, which is about as unremote as it gets! I've seen various assertions that indoor cats live 3 times as long as outdoor ones - which I do find more than a bit unlikely. My parents have had 5 cats during my lifetime, which have died at the ages of 15, 6 (cancer), and 16, and two which are still hale and hearty at 13 and 7 respectively. Their current two go in and out through a flap at will, but tend to roam around the back garden and adjoining properties, and don't go near roads. Amanda >> The kitten can live quite happily indoors. I have seven of my own, and >> none [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >How odd - I assume you aren't in the UK? The shelters here demand you spay > / neuter a cat, but the general assumption is that cats go outdoors. It depends on where you live. In the UK, even in our major cities, it's usually possible for cats to find somewhere to roam satisfactorily outdoors. I doubt that there are many outdoor cats in, say, Manhattan or Tokyo, though. >I've >never heard of a cat run over by a car, out of the 10s of cats I've known >from my family and friends' families. It often happens. My last cat lost an argument with a car and I live in a semi-rural area. In urban environments it's quite common. >The RSPCA's animal advice web pages say a cat needs (among lots of other >things) access to a safe outdoor environment. That's incorrect. Many cats live perfectly happy lives without ever venturing outdoors. They're remarkably versatile animals and will usually adapt to almost any reasonable environment that they're brought up in. >My parents' cats, the 5 they've had since I've been alive, have all had >free access night and day to the great outdoors through a cat flap. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Thanks to everyone for the pointers. I'm taking him to the vet for a >thorough check, and I think I'll discuss the matter with him. Very sensible. Don't forget, though, that vets tend to be just as opinionated as other professionals. Best to take several opinions. SignatureMarshall Rice (Put the bin out to email me) > >> The kitten can live quite happily indoors. I have seven of my own, and > >> none [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > It often happens. My last cat lost an argument with a car and I live in > a semi-rural area. In urban environments it's quite common. My sister-in-law lives in the sticks and I mean menonite horse and buggy sticks. She has had a series of outside only cats that wander onto her property (40+ acres). I think on average they make it two or three years before becoming road pizza. > >The RSPCA's animal advice web pages say a cat needs (among lots of other > >things) access to a safe outdoor environment. [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Very sensible. Don't forget, though, that vets tend to be just as > opinionated as other professionals. Best to take several opinions. > The RSPCA's animal advice web pages say a cat needs (among lots of > other things) access to a safe outdoor environment. The RSCPA is not only wrong, but criminally wrong. Outside cats often die in unspeakably horrible ways. | > The RSPCA's animal advice web pages say a cat needs (among lots of | > other things) access to a safe outdoor environment. | | The RSCPA is not only wrong, but criminally wrong. | | Outside cats often die in unspeakably horrible ways. Where I live 85% of the cats are indoors/outdoors. Shelters like to give cats to people where they can go outside. But it's not a law. And the owners of the 15% indoor cats, are they wrong? No, they are just wise because they adapt to their circumstances. It also depends on the character of the cat. If it's an unneutered roamer then it's probably hard to keep him inside, whereas a cat attached to its people can live very happily indoors. Carola > Where I live 85% of the cats are indoors/outdoors. In the States? > Shelters like to give cats to people where they can go outside. Which shelters? Most shelters in urban areas of the US discourage outdoor activity. In many places, it's illegal to allow any domestic pet to roam at large ("nuisance" laws). > But it's not a law. > And the owners of the 15% indoor cats, are they wrong? No, they are just > wise because they adapt to their circumstances. > It also depends on the character of the cat. If it's an unneutered roamer > then it's probably hard to keep him inside, whereas a cat attached to its > people can live very happily indoors. An unneutered roamer needs to be neutered and rehomed. > Carola | > Where I live 85% of the cats are indoors/outdoors. | | In the States? No in Europe. | > Shelters like to give cats to people where they can go outside. | | Which shelters? Most shelters in urban areas of the US discourage outdoor | activity. I nearly did not get the last cat from the pet rescue organization because I foolishly mentioned that I'll be moving into a house with a garden, but close to a busy road eventually and intend to keep the cat inside then. But Minka mostly stays inside now anyway, never goes far, so it's the perfect cat. | In many places, it's illegal to allow any domestic pet to roam at | large ("nuisance" laws). This new law has been enforced that if you harm a pet you don't just have to pay for the vet but also pay compensation. This results in the fact that people leave pets just beside the road when they hit a cat. (Politicians don't seem to think much when they work out new laws these days...) | > But it's not a law. | > And the owners of the 15% indoor cats, are they wrong? No, they are just [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | | An unneutered roamer needs to be neutered and rehomed. I think it's cruel not to neuter a cat. But the farmers don't do it here, even now that the gov. pays half of the fee for them. There was this story about the tom who had to look for a new home because the stronger toms on his farm didn't tolerate him. He eventually found a neighbouring farm where he could stay after it took a lot of talking to its owners. The cat magazine printed the story because it thought it was a lovely one. I didn't much like it though. Carola >>The kitten can live quite happily indoors. I have seven of my own, and >>none [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > I don't think anyone could have left him struggling in a bin bag! Someone did. > Thanks to everyone for the pointers. I'm taking him to the vet for a > thorough check, and I think I'll discuss the matter with him. > > Amanda I haven't finished reading the rest of the thread, but I wanted to post anyway. When I was growing up, we lost a kitten we had brought camping with us (not a very busy place for vehicles, either), because he was hit by a car. And after I'd moved out of my parents' place, another cat they had was hit by a car as well. (They live in a small town, so again the roads aren't really that busy, but it does happen when you let cats outdoors.) I am in Canada, and most of the things I've read and heard say that you are better off keeping your cat indoors. Besides cars, other "dangers" for outdoor cats include: "attacks by dogs or other cats, infectious diseases and parasites, poison..., starvation, exposure to severe weather and people who don't like cats" (quoted from the "Caring for your adopted cat" from the Calgary Humane Society) . They do also have a section in the booklet called "Contented Indoor Cats" and one called "'Contained' Outdoor Cats" as well, though. With my parents' track record, keeping our cat inside is definitely my preference. I am thinking about trying a harness and leash to see if he'll be ok with that so we can take him outside once in a while, but there's no way we're letting him out on his own to wander. Good luck and have fun with your new indoor kitty! Cindy >How odd - I assume you aren't in the UK? The shelters here demand you spay > / neuter a cat, but the general assumption is that cats go outdoors. I've >never heard of a cat run over by a car, out of the 10s of cats I've known >from my family and friends' families. >I've never heard of a moggy being kept inside all the time; the odd >pedigree cat, yes, but not a moggy. Is it fair on him? It's common in the US to keep any cat indoors, especially in cities. One might even say it's usual for companion city cats to live indoors. If they haven't lived outside for any length of time, they won't mind a bit. You might want to get him a companion though. T.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D." somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected. >My parents always had cats when I was a child, but they had the cat flap >and could come and go any time they fancied it. Would the kitten hate [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Amanda Amanda, I think you were meant to have this kitty and I think he'll be the best cat you ever had. It always works that way with the rescues--especially ones like this one. You saved his life. He would surely have not lasted much longer. You'll get different opinions to the other question, but this is just mine: Cats are remarkably resilient and adjust to their environments very well. I don't see why you can't keep him indoors. You'll just have to compensate, give him plenty of attention, and toys, to keep him from getting bored. Also, since he's tiny, he'll adjust to a harness very well, and you can take him for walks. (Although I don't think this is very common in your country--you might get some funny looks). Good luck in whatever you decide. Sherry > Also, since > he's tiny, he'll adjust to a harness very well, and you can take him > for walks. > (Although I don't think this is very common in your country--you might > get some > funny looks). I honestly can't see myself being able to get down the street in London with a cat on a lead without gales of laughter (-: i didn't know you could do that with cats! Thanks for the advice, all, lots to think about. Amanda > > Also, since he's tiny, he'll adjust to a harness very well, and you can take him > > for walks. (Although I don't think this is very common in your country--you might > > get some funny looks). > > I honestly can't see myself being able to get down the street in London > with a cat on a lead without gales of laughter (-: Well that is what I thought when I first bought harnesses and long dog leashes for my 4( i told you about my 4 indoor moggies in London in other post). People in London actually find it endeering and after the initial question mark look like "wot is this, its not a dog? " they generally wanna know how you trained your cat to walk on a harness and then tell you how their cat wouldn;t let them do it :) I never had anybody laught at us in 5 years, but I had a lot of people wanting to stroke my cats and watch them walk with the harness nad leash. They also tottaly all agree with what I am doing, especially once I tell them I already lost one cat on the road. My 4 are indoor cats, but I do take them out on a leash now and then(hence the need for vaccinations). They've all learned very early to accept harness just like they accepted the colar. They are perfectly happy on it, and long leash gives them the feeling of "freedom". You can buy cat harnesses in any pet shop in London, but do not get a rabbit harness they may offer! Not good for cats. Also get the harness that has 3 connected belts, and is not made of rope, which can hurt them. "Pets at home" chain of pet shops has lovely cat harnesses and 5-6 m dog leashes. Check their website for your local shop http://www.petsathome.com/. Also they tend to do good cat/dog food offers, currently 3 for 2 Whiskas dry food bags and HIlls adult food 3 for 2 as well. >> Also, since >> he's tiny, he'll adjust to a harness very well, and you can take him [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >i didn't know you could do that with cats! Some cats (such as Siamese) take to being walked on leads quite well. The majority won't. It's utterly alien to a cat's natural instincts to be restricted in that way. SignatureMarshall Rice (Put the bin out to email me) > >> Also, since > >> he's tiny, he'll adjust to a harness very well, and you can take him [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > The majority won't. It's utterly alien to a cat's natural instincts to > be restricted in that way. It may be alien to their instinct, but I've seen a lot of cats on leash particularly when we go camping over the summer. They all seem perfectly happy to be able to go on vacation with their family. W > >> Also, since > >> he's tiny, he'll adjust to a harness very well, and you can take him [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > The majority won't. It's utterly alien to a cat's natural instincts to > be restricted in that way. I had one cat (domestic long hair) that was trained to a leash. He adapted very well to it. However, *he* took me for walks and I followed wherever he wanted to go -- so it wasn't like walking a dog on a leash, where the dog goes with the person. MaryL > I suddenly have a cat (well, a kitten) Aww, I'm so happy you were there at the right time, the fate that the kitty would have suffered! :( I want to chime in with my own situation along with the other replies. I have three cats who are indoor only cats. One was even a feral who spent her first 4-5 months outdoors living off of whatever she could find and since she's been with me, she shows no desire to go back out there at all. Good luck, congratulations on your new kitten and many purrs for his health. :) SignatureCheryl > How realistic is it to keep him, bearing in mind I live in the middle of > London in a second-floor flat and he could never go outside? Amanda, I'm in London as well, adn mine 4 moggies (I prefer the term Domestic purebred alleyway cats) are (now) indoor cats only, so nothing to worry about there. I was stupid enough to allow mine free roaming 5 years ago, and I learned a heavy lesson when my QT got run over and died. So keep this lovely boy indoors and enjoy him, you were obviously meant for each other. You saved his life, let him make you happy too. And he will. Just make sure you nueter him and vaccinate him, becuase they can still run out. Buetring will stop him from roaming, spraying and fighting later on. I think vets in London advise nuetring at 6 months old, although in USA they do it at 8 weeks old I think. You will obviously need basics which you probably already know such as cat litter tray, dry and tinned food etc. His first vaccinations set should be at 9 weeks old then 12 weeks old, make sure he gets at least this first vaccinations set. There is a bit of FIV going in London. Vaccinations should be around 60-70? then boosters yearly ?35 at the mo. Also make sure you get him some scratching post(15-20?), and even bette a cat tree(?70 and up), if he';s going to be an ony cat and spend hours by himself. As for cat toys, "cat dancer" is so far the biggerst hit with mine ?5, but worth every penny. Also, make him some space on top of cupboards, as cats would live on the ceiling if they could :) So maybe innitially is a bit of money, but its only once you buy a cat tree in a few years. What are you gonna call him? Splodge? Lucky? Snowflake? Just some ideas :) Finally, just wanted to say how wonderfull is of you to save him and give him a home. You are a wonderfull person and I am sure you guys will be happy together. Your new baby! Enjoy him! Gee and Cat Co > Just make sure you nueter him and vaccinate him, becuase they can still > run [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > they > do it at 8 weeks old I think. ISTR that my parents always had their cats done at 5 months or so, but I'll check with the vet when he has his thorough check next Monday. He's about 8-9 weeks old now, but obviously we aren't exactly sure, so he's ready for his first set of jabs. > You will obviously need basics which you probably already know such as > cat > litter tray, dry and tinned food etc. I bought all that the first day, and TBH I'm fine about cat-keeping basics, my parents have always had them (it's just that they always went out when they felt like it) > Also, make him some space on top of cupboards, as cats would live on the > ceiling if they could :) So maybe innitially is a bit of money, but its > only > once you buy a cat tree in a few years. the expense isn't a problem, that's not my concern. > What are you gonna call him? Splodge? Lucky? Snowflake? Just some ideas > :) Elijah, because he turned up on the last day of Passover, the time during which the prophet is meant to appear (-: Amanda Amanda, your new companion will live many long and healthy years indoors. I sent you this link, but will also post it here; http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/9352/indoors.html You might consider getting him a playmate. Cats actually do better in pairs. Less trouble, because they keep each other occupied in play. Karma to the monster that threw these kittens out as though they were garbage! > > Just make sure you nueter him and vaccinate him, becuase they can still > > run [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Amanda I > think vets in London advise nuetring at 6 months old, although in USA they > do it at 8 weeks old I think. It depends on the vet/shelter on spaying neutering (BTW I am in US). If you found kitten, most vets will recommend waiting until they are at least 6 months old. However, shelters are different. One shelter I foster for suggests 6 months. The other fixes them as soon as they are over two pounds. The reason? They would give adoptees a spay/neuter certificate to get pet fixed, most people would neglect to do so. The only way they found to combat this was to fix them at an early age. Generally most kittens are not over 2 pounds until they are 8 weeks old (1 lb per 4 weeks). So now their pets are fixed before they go up for adoption. And yes, anesthetic is a risk, but it is a risk at ANY age, be it dog, cat, human or otherwise. It is a rare occurance, but, sadly, it does happen. As far as indoor/outdoor - I get so upset seeing any dead animal on the side of the road (deer, cats, raccoons etc). I would not take a chance on that happening to mine. How awful it would be to come home and see your pet dead on the side of the road. Also, an old neighbor of mine used to let her cats outdoors, one of them was killed by a raccoon (which I don't think are a problem in UK, regardless there are other predators). So please be rest assured that cat's can live healthy/happy lives inside a house. I'm getting off my "soap box" now. Nite JoJo > I > > think vets in London advise nuetring at 6 months old, although in USA they [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > over 2 pounds until they are 8 weeks old (1 lb per 4 weeks). So now their > pets are fixed before they go up for adoption. It goes a little beyond that. Medicine has advanced (even for animals) and the the new drugs, instruments and monitoring equipment makes the 6 month rule obsolete. The vet told me that particularly with males it's actually better younger because the inciscion is smaller and they need practically no stitches. It's such a common surgery that they are under for such a short period of time..it's just not as big a concern as it once was. AG > I suddenly have a cat (well, a kitten) > I was strolling along between work and the [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > Amanda Amanda, Cats can live very happily indoors. I realize that there is a strong difference of opinion on this between residents of the US and the UK, largely because there are more dangers (such as predators) in the US. However, you have raised the very important question of living on the second floor in a large city. All of my cats have been indoor-only cats (and *none* have been purebred). I dearly love my cats, and they return that love. As someone else suggested, you might even want to get a second companion cat. Be sure to provide scratching posts, plenty of toys, and good places for exercise. For example, cats love cat trees. They provide both entertainment and exercise for your furry friends. You can see mine if you look in the second album of pictures under my signature. Thank you for rescuing this little kitten. I think you would be doing both yourself and the kitten *another* favor if you adopt him. You were obviously "meant" to be together! MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") > Cats can live very happily indoors. I realize that there is a strong > difference of opinion on this between residents of the US and the UK, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > mine if > you look in the second album of pictures under my signature. We will get some toys and so forth, but no chance of a second kitten, that would really be pushing my luck with my boyfriend and flatmate (-: It's really not possible to suggest the cat somehow shimmies down past the first floor and ground floor to get out, so if we do keep him it will be indoors only. If he goes to my sisters' place in the middle of nowhere he'll be out and about. Thanks for all the advice, much appreciated. Amanda > > Cats can live very happily indoors. > > We will get some toys and so forth, but no chance of a second kitten, that > would really be pushing my luck with my boyfriend and flatmate (-: > > Amanda Even though I suggested a companion cat, I can also tell you that a single cat can live happily indoors as long as you give him/her lots of attention. I now have two cats but always had only one before this -- and each was a delight and lived to an old age. Go for it! You will the cat, and the cat will love you (as long as your boyfriend and flatmate will also be cat-friendly). MaryL | Even though I suggested a companion cat, I can also tell you that a single | cat can live happily indoors as long as you give him/her lots of attention. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] | | MaryL Because of this (crazy) cat group who dropped sentences like 'two cats are better than one', 'two cats are double fun' etc. I got a second cat. And guess what? It *is* double fun, but more for myself and the family. The cats though don't seem to care much about each other. They get along fine, greet each other, lie beside each other, but don't play with each other or even groom each other. If I wanted that would it be necessary to get two cats together as kittens? Carola > | Even though I suggested a companion cat, I can also tell you that a single > | cat can live happily indoors as long as you give him/her lots of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > groom each other. If I wanted that would it be necessary to get two cats > together as kittens? I imagine it depends not only on the cats but also on the age. My dad's "buddy" cats played together when they were very young but by time they hit about 3 years of age they stopped. Not sure if it was the age or they already knew who was going to win most games so there wasn't a point :-) My dad thinks they still play when no one is home but as long as there is a lap in the house that's the priority. It's still good for your cat to have a companion for when you aren't home. Poor Sasha, she doesn't seem to get the idea at all. AG > | Even though I suggested a companion cat, I can also tell you that a single > | cat can live happily indoors as long as you give him/her lots of [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Carola No, I think this is simply one of those times when "you accept what you get." Some cats act as you described, while others are completely inseparable companions -- and I think either can exist when adopted as kittens or later. I do know some people deliberately adopt a pair of bonded cats because that way they know the cats are already buddies. (On the other hand, I'm not an expert in this -- note that I always had one cat at a time until I adopted Duffy a year ago.) MaryL I originally had four cats -all different ages, recently lost the two oldest - the remaining cats could care less if they're here or gone. I have also started fostering (so it is sometimes a revolving door of kittens), but it resulted in me adopted two very close in age - they played together, slept together - wherevery Tiny Shorty went, Tia was right behind. They are still somewhat close, I caught them sitting on the basement steps together yesterday (felt like I caught them "making out" the way the looked at me). Tia still follows Tiny around, although not as much as she did. Most of the other cats I have around here have not bonded with any of the others. Those are the only two that seem to have any bond. Jo > | Even though I suggested a companion cat, I can also tell you that a single > | cat can live happily indoors as long as you give him/her lots of [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Carola > | Even though I suggested a companion cat, I can also tell you that a single > | cat can live happily indoors as long as you give him/her lots of [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Carola We adopted Tigger with another (not related) kitten. They were best buds until Buffy died at 2. Tigger moped around and cried at night so we adopted a 1 1/2 old cat, Fluffernutter. After the initial hissy fits they settled in and took to sleeping together and generally hanging out but not playing. Fluffer passed on at 9 from cancer. Again Tiggy was moping around so we adopted 2 yr. old Ralf. Hissy fits followed but eventually they coexisted. I though they really didn't bond but would sleep together on the bed. By this time Tig was just as glad not to have a playful friend as she was getting older and acted as if she thought being caught playing was undignified. Ralf died suddenly from kidney failure at 8. Much to my surprise Tig again moped around and was upset. Shortly before Ralf's demise we adopted 1 1/2 yr. old Isabelle. Hissy fits with Tigger followed as usual. Then we ended up keeping Boots, one of four kittens we bottle fed. I have caught Boots and Tig doing the mutual grooming thing and Tig is doing better around Isabelle. They all sleep together on my bed in various combinations during the day. The point being even if they don't seem to be best buds and don't play, I think they enjoy the company. OTOH our first cat, Mabel, was an only cat and seemed perfectly happy that way. She was an indoor/outdoor cat though so that may have made a difference. W > We adopted Tigger with another (not related) kitten. They were best buds > until Buffy died at 2. Tigger moped around and cried at night so we > adopted > a 1 1/2 old cat, Fluffernutter. <snip> We had a cat who had kittens very young, before she was spayed. My grandmother kept 2, and we kept the third. Mother and daughter stayed very, very close, you rarely saw one without the other. Then the mother died when she was 6, unexpectedly, and Beth was miserable. She wandered around, yowling, looking everywhere, wouldn't eat or settle. So we had a Bright Idea, and got a small tortoiseshell kitten. It was hate at first sight. they spat and hissed, and we tried everything to get them to like each other. 8 years later, they pretend each other doesn't exist. If they suddenly themselves face to face, they both hiss and run off. It doesn't always work (-: Amanda | We will get some toys and so forth, but no chance of a second kitten, that | would really be pushing my luck with my boyfriend and flatmate (-: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] | | Amanda How is the little one doing? If you have a balcony you can make it cat proof with a net. Carola > How is the little one doing? > If you have a balcony you can make it cat proof with a net. He's very well. He seems happy and healthy, and to have recovered from his horrible bin bag experience. We don't have a balcony - we live bang in the middle of London, so no such possibility for Elijah. Amanda > My parents always had cats when I was a child, but they had the cat flap > and could come and go any time they fancied it. Would the kitten hate > being kept permanently indoors? I guaratee he will like it a lot more than the fate that awaited him. Sounds like your his angel..and perhaps he will be yours too. Bless you and whatever saint made you take that rout to lunch. > I've never heard of a moggy being kept inside all the time; the odd > pedigree cat, yes, but not a moggy. Is it fair on him? Happens all the time. A lot of city dwellers don't allow their cats outside because, well because the city isn't really a safe place for them to play. There will be a few nay sayers who chime in that no life is better than an indoor life but I know a lot of cats who do just fine. Get him some fun kitty toys, plenty of things to scratch other than your furniture and maybe a cat tree to climb and a window to look out of. Every room in my house has a blind partially up and some sort of a shelf, chair, cat tree in front of it for Sasha to view a street she will never play on. :-) She seems happy to "imagine". AG > > My parents always had cats when I was a child, but they had the cat flap > > and could come and go any time they fancied it. Would the kitten hate [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > AG I was going to try to leash train Boots. I got him used to wearing the harness and carried him outside on the carport and set him down. He totally freaked out. He ran right back in the house the first opportunity he got.He now turns into a maniac if he's anywhere close to the back door when someone opens it and is petrified that someone might try taking him back out there. He likes chasing birds but will do it from the bow window sill. W | I suddenly have a cat (well, a kitten) | I was strolling along between work and the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] | apart from a dead (definitely dead) kitten, and a live black kitten, | howling quietly with distress. My goodness! Thanks for taking him home and to the vet. One should take the bag to the police, and from some addresses on the envelopes they can find the person who did such an awful thing and report for cruelty to animals. | How realistic is it to keep him, bearing in mind I live in the middle of | London in a second-floor flat and he could never go outside? He's not a | pedigree which could be a pampered house cat, and he's extremely lively | and athletic. It's as realistic as you can be there for the cat. Would you like to keep it? We have got this former stray from a farm wich we thought would take off as soon as she could get out. But she'd rather stay inside. Good luck and some purrs for the little one. Carola > One should take the bag to the police, and from some addresses on the > envelopes they can find the person who did such an awful thing and report > for cruelty to animals. Two of the neighbor girls found two kittens in a box on the side of the road last fall. They didn't know what to do w/them so they called the local police. Whoever was on duty told the girls to "let them go in the woods" - sure death -they were about 8-9 weeks old, no way could they defend for themselves, and very very people friendly. Luckily the girls knew I foster, so they brought them to me. Both have gone on to find happy homes - homes they wouldn't have gotten if they girls would have followed the cop's advice. And don't know who the cop is/was. From what I understand if they find any strays they are taken to animal control (which is not a shelter). From there the cats are usually put down immediately (recently they passed a law a that animal control had to hold a DOG 48-72 hours in case an owner would be looking for it, no such law exists for cats). Maybe the cop thought the kittens would have a better chance out doors (though I doubt it, it was October and getting cold). But I just wanted to point out that sometimes cops are unsympathetic and don't want to be bothered with something as *insignificant* as a cat/dog. Might interupt their donut break (any cops out there plz forgive me for!) JoJo > But I just wanted to point out that sometimes cops are unsympathetic and > don't want to be bothered with something as *insignificant* as a > cat/dog. > Might interupt their donut break (any cops out there plz forgive me > for!) here any offence involving animal cruelty would tend to be prosecuted by the RSPCA, not the police. Amanda >| I suddenly have a cat (well, a kitten) >| I was strolling along between work and the [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >envelopes they can find the person who did such an awful thing and report >for cruelty to animals. She's posting from England. The police here are much too busy concentrating on their 'performance indicators' to bother about crime. SignatureMarshall Rice (Put the bin out to email me) > She's posting from England. The police here are much too busy > concentrating on their 'performance indicators' to bother about crime. But it wouldn't really be a police matter, far more likely to be prosecuted by the RSPCA (who are a competent prosecuting authority, along with all sorts of others such as local councils, TV licence people, British Waterways, the Post Office, and Customs and Excise). The police don't get involved with these authorities. But there was nothing else in the bag to suggest who dumped or owned him, anyway. Amanda > My goodness! > Thanks for taking him home and to the vet. > One should take the bag to the police, and from some addresses on the > envelopes they can find the person who did such an awful thing and > report > for cruelty to animals. What envelopes? If you mean in the bag, it was otherwise empty, no clues there. Amanda >I suddenly have a cat (well, a kitten) >I was strolling along between work and the [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > >Amanda Is it fair? Definitely. In fac it is the best way to have a live, healthy, happy cat friend. Good luck! > I suddenly have a cat (well, a kitten) <snip> The conclusion - we've decided to keep him as an indoor cat. I took him to my parents' place today, and it was clear that wouldn't work. He, Beth and the Little Cat loathed each other right away, and he didn't like Polly (one of the dogs) much either. It was quite funny to see a 1.5lb kitten on a table arching his back, with his hair on end, spitting at a 50lb dog on the floor below. Polly just looked puzzled. The vet says it would be fine to keep him indoors, The vet says he's healthy, and he had his first jabs and ear-mite stuff and I'm going to worm him tomorrow. He'll be neutered in 4 months' time or so, when he's about 6 months old. I'm going to get him a cat tree - does anyone know of a source in London or mail-order in the rest of the UK? Does anyone with experience of cats playing on them think it's worth going for a tall expensive one with lots of bells and whistles, or are the cheaper ones fine? Amanda > > I suddenly have a cat (well, a kitten) > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Amanda Wonderful! All of my cats have been indoor cats, and they have lived long, happy, healthy lives. They were also only cats until my present twosome, when I adopted Duffy a year ago. I would opt for a tall and *very* sturdy cat tree. I don't know of any locations in the UK, but mine weighs about 85 pounds. Even so, little Duffy runs and scrambles on it with such vigor that he can cause it to "bounce" a little. A very lightweight tree would be in actual danger of toppling. I know of people who have bought lightweight cat trees from places like WalMart, but they usually are not long-lasting. I really think the one I have (which you can see pictured in the second link under my signature) will last a lifetime. If you have any problems finding one you like, I do have links to some places on the Internet with free build-your-own plans (assuming that you have someone who can do this work for you *or* you are a lot more "handy" than I am). Good luck! MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") > If you have any problems finding one you like, I do > have > links to some places on the Internet with free build-your-own plans > (assuming that you have someone who can do this work for you *or* you > are a > lot more "handy" than I am). I'm going to buy one. Changing a lightbulb is about the limit of my DIY ability (-: Amanda I've seen quite a few for sale on ebay - all shapes and sizes. Most I saw were for sale in US, but I'm sure there are people from UK selling them on ebay a well. Glad you are keeping him indoors! Here's to hoping he'll have a long healthy happy life! > > I suddenly have a cat (well, a kitten) > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Amanda "Amanda Jones" <avjones@cix.co.uk> wrote in message > The conclusion - we've decided to keep him as an indoor cat. He will be happy don't worry. > I took him to my parents' place today, and it was clear that wouldn't > work. He, Beth and the Little Cat loathed each other right away, and he > didn't like Polly (one of the dogs) much either. > It was quite funny to see a >1.5lb kitten on a table arching his back, with his hair on end, spitting at a 50lb >dog on the floor below. Polly just looked puzzled. Well cats never like each other on the first site.Territorial and difference in smell thing. It usually take a few days to a few weeks for them to decide if they really like or dislike other cat. As for the dog, yeah that was mine cats first reaction as well to neighbor's dog Kelly. Instinct.They soon realized Kelly is not a problem. In fact Shadow now follows Kelly around like a -well-, shadow and keeps lying down in front of her with belly up. Kelly is not sure what to make of it, so usually just ignores Shadow he he. Kelly also learned early enough not to mess with cats, after she got her nose scratched years ago he he. > The vet says it would be fine to keep him indoors, The vet says he's > healthy, and he had his first jabs and ear-mite stuff and I'm going to > worm him tomorrow. Good stuff. Little mite deserves to be happy :) > I'm going to get him a cat tree - does anyone know of a source in London > or mail-order in the rest of the UK? Some bigger pet shops will have bigger trees. One that comes to mind is Pets at home where I got my tree: http://www.petsathome.co.uk/ check the store locator out for your local store. There is 5 in London, and worth a trip to stock up. Also you might wanna get some cat magazine, which should have some adds with cat trees in. You could also check http://www.ukpets.co.uk/ which has lots of useful link to everything really. Finally the book recommendation I keep suggesting to people: "The Cats House" by Bob Walker.About a couple who redecorated the house to suit their 9 cats (and a dog who thinks he's a cat). The website is more then awesome as well, with the pics, tour through the rooms and even a web cam: http://www.thecatshouse.com/. The house was also shown on Discovery animal channel on "most extreme" :) Well it may be so but for cats, it's a cat heaven! >Does anyone with experience of cats > playing on them think it's worth going for a tall expensive one with lots > of bells and whistles, or are the cheaper ones fine? Oh no, gotta be the bigger the better, especially if he's gonna be the only cat. He will sooooo love it trust me! Every "tree" should contain at least 1 sisal scratching post and at least one (as high as possible - yes, we are talking the nearer to the ceiling the better high-) platform with preferable view to the outside world for a kitty to chill on it and watch the birds and the world go buy. My tree also has an enclosure, which they rarely use though :) There are some beautiful cat trees pics here: http://www.peninsulapetresort.com/cat_playhouse.htm http://www.petmate.com/Catalog.plx?CID=1 (check out all the cat furniture) http://www.petsmart.com/global/browse_category.jsp?ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=253437 4302023690&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302025538&bmUID=1082438764805 (more) http://petsonthenet.das-mall.com/store/scratchers01.html (from basic to more advanced stuff-love the bunk bed) http://web.media.mit.edu/~sylvan/classes/fab/catentertainmentcenter.html (or make your own playcenter :)) Happy reading :) Gee (also a Londoner with indoor Cat co) > Amanda > "Amanda Jones" <avjones@cix.co.uk> wrote in message > > > The conclusion - we've decided to keep him as an indoor cat. > > He will be happy don't worry. <snip> Thanks to both you and all for the very helpful links, which I've been looking at with interest. Amanda | > I suddenly have a cat (well, a kitten) | [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] | his hair on end, spitting at a 50lb dog on the floor below. Polly just | looked puzzled. Great wee fellar!! :-D | The vet says it would be fine to keep him indoors, The vet says he's | healthy, and he had his first jabs and ear-mite stuff and I'm going to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] | playing on them think it's worth going for a tall expensive one with lots | of bells and whistles, or are the cheaper ones fine? All my cats want is the soft sleeping mould. So it should have at least one of those. Make sure you don't buy a kitten size 'cause he'll grow out of that quickly. It would need to be at least 1 metre tall so that the cat can strech out when sharpening the claws. Carola
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