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hymalayan

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Shannon - 09 Apr 2004 01:36 GMT
I have 2 hymalayn cats male and female.  im tring to breed them but im
having no luck.  because their fur is so long do you think i would have to
trim it?
Shannon
Sherry - 09 Apr 2004 05:12 GMT
>I have 2 hymalayn cats male and female.  im tring to breed them but im
>having no luck.  because their fur is so long do you think i would have to
>trim it?
>Shannon

Honestly, Shannon, if you have to ask a question like this on a newsgroup, and
even mis-spell the name of the breed, it is clear you have no experience
breeding cats. If it's not too late, I wish you would re-think this deal.
Millions of cats are euthanized in this country for lack of homes. We have
enough cats. Exactly why do want to breed your cats? Are you well-versed in the
genetics of your male and female, so that you aren't creating kittens with
birth defects? Are you doing this to make money? Do you have homes for the
kittens already, and are you prepared to spay/neuter them and draw up a
pre-adoption contract? Do you know how to screen potential adoptors?
Please think about this.

Sherry
Arjun Ray - 09 Apr 2004 07:51 GMT
|> I have 2 hymalayn cats male and female.  im tring to breed them but im
|> having no luck.

| Honestly, Shannon, if you have to ask a question like this on a newsgroup,
| and even mis-spell the name of the breed,

Yup.  Clearly just a backyard breeder.  I wonder how this Shannon person
got two intact himmies to begin with.   From another BYB?  Sigh.
Ted Davis - 09 Apr 2004 17:15 GMT
>|> I have 2 hymalayn cats male and female.  im tring to breed them but im
>|> having no luck.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Yup.  Clearly just a backyard breeder.  I wonder how this Shannon person
>got two intact himmies to begin with.   From another BYB?  Sigh.

Nobody said they were intact.

T.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu)
SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D."
somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected.
Dik F. Liu - 09 Apr 2004 17:18 GMT
>Nobody said they were intact.<

May that's the real problem. Shannon is trying to breed with neutered cats.
<g.>.

Dik
Arjun Ray - 10 Apr 2004 03:16 GMT
|> I wonder how this Shannon person got two intact himmies to begin with.

| Nobody said they were intact.

;-)

You have a point. :) :) :)
Orchid - 09 Apr 2004 21:08 GMT
>I have 2 hymalayn cats male and female.  im tring to breed them but im
>having no luck.  because their fur is so long do you think i would have to
>trim it?

Hi there.  There are some things to do and questions to ask
yourself before breeding cats.  

Questions to ask:

1) Did you know that in the Cat Fanciers' Association alone last year,
there were almost 15,000 Persian kittens registered (including
Himalayans)? This does not include the thousands of backyard breeder
and mill kittens that were not registered but are purebred. This does
not include all the Persian kittens from all the other associations,
such as ACFA and TICA.  Most are not show quality, or even breed
quality.  Why are your particular cats breed quality?
Please note that 'he's so sweet', or 'she's such a great pet'
are not good answers.  To be a responsible breeder you need to
have a picture in your mind of the 'perfect' Persian-type cat - and
then plan to bring that about.

2) What registry are your cats registered in?  What titles have you
put on them?   Are they Champions?  Grand Champions?  Supreme Grand
Champions?
Responsible owners, the ones who spend a lot of time and money
researching the breed they want (and the ones who are the most lilely
to give your kittens a forever home) aren't going to be interested in
kittens that have nothing behind them.  Titles tell prospective owners
that your cats are a good match for the breed standard -- in other
words, that their kittens are going to look and act like a Himmie
should.

3)  Have your cats been health-tested?  By health-tested, I am not
referring to a vet doing a general checkup and declaring them to be in
good health.  Persian-types have been cripplingly overbred, and carry
genes for a number of painful, even fatal genetic conditions.  Any
Persian-type, before it is bred, should be tested for patellar
luxellation, hip dysplasia (yes, it exists in cats too), polycystic
kidney disease, and hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM).  HCM causes
young, seemingly healthy cats to simply drop dead.  It can only be
screened for by a certified veterinary cardiologist using a colour
Doppler test -- at around $150-$200 a pop.  Did I also mention that
breeding cats must be screened every year since there is no definitive
test for the disease?  Failing to test your cats means that you could
be sentencing numerous kittens and families that love them to
heartbreak and pain.  Not to mention the diseases that can be passed
simply by the act of mating - FIV, FELV, and FIP are 3 contagious,
incurable, and fatal diseases that can be passed through breeding.

4)  Do you know your cat's background?  Most breeders require a
five-generation pedigree on each of their breeding cats to see if
their catss lines will mesh well.  It is only by line-matching in this
way that breeders are finally starting to overcome those genetic
problems and diseases within the breed.  No responsible, reputable
breeder will compromise their program by breeding unknowns.
    As a corollary, do you know enough about the breed to know
what those cats mean in your pedigree?  Can you recognise the major,
influential catteries for Himmies at a glance?  Do you know what
health problems are in each line?  How about the traits they tend to
throw?

5) Are you prepared for the sheer amount of money involved in
breeding?  Let's break down the costs of a litter, shall we:

A. Queen must be vaccinated right before she is bred or in some cases
during the pregnancy. That's at least $10 if the vet does it (more if
he charges for an office visit).

C. Queen will eat up to twice as much as usual during her pregnancy
and up to three times as much as usual while she is nursing the
kittens. She needs special premium quality food that is approved for
pregnancy and lactation. That is two 6-ounce cans per day for 9 weeks
of pregnancy and 3 cans per day for at least 8 weeks of lactation.
Each can costs about 75 cents for premium food, so that is 63 days X
$1.00 + 56 days X $1.50 = $220.50.

D. Kittens can die within hours if they don't get enough to eat
because of a feeding problem. So you need to keep emergency formula,
feeding tubes, and feeding syringes on hand. $20

E. The kittens will begin to eat solid food at age 4-6 weeks and will
be eating almost entirely solid food at age 8 weeks. At age 8 weeks,
each kitten eats about two 3-ounce cans per day of premium food rated
for growing kittens and will eat perhaps 1/8 cup of dry premium kitten
food each day. What they don't eat, they spill soil, scatter, or play
with until it must be discarded. The kittens will stay with the
breeder usually until age 12 weeks - and sometimes for much longer. So
that's a minimum of 3 cans X 4 weeks X 50 cents per can = $42 per
kitten. Average litter size for Himmies is five kittens, so 5 X $42 =
$210.00. Then the dry food adds up to 1/8 cup X 5 kittens X 28 days =
17.5 cups. So that's about one 4 pound bag of premium kitten food per
litter, or $8.00. Total food for kittens is $210 + $8 = $218.00.

F. The kittens will require at least two vaccinations, one at age 9
weeks and one at age 12 weeks. Those cost $10 each if the vet does it
(if he doesn't charge for an office visit).  So that's five kittens X
2 vaccinations X $10 per vacc = $100.00

G. Each kitten must be spayed or neutered prior to adoption. This is
responsible breeding that prevents new owners from unintentionally
failing to neuter kittens in time to prevent accidental litters. As
well, kittens recover from Early Spay/Neuter much faster than older
cats.   If you can find a good low-cost early neuter clinic (not
always possible), average cost of neutering is $25.00 per kitten X
five kittens = $125.00. NOTE: If you can't find a low-cost neutering
clinic, it will cost you about $50.00 to neuter or $100 to spay each
kitten.

H. In virtually all litters there is at least one kitten who during
his 12 weeks living with the breeder requires veterinary attention due
to an umbilical infection, failure to thrive normally, getting poked
in the eye, falling off a table the wrong way, developing an upper
respiratory infection, developing a minor eye infection during the
period when the eyes are starting to open, needing a re-examination
after neutering, being born with a minor birth defect, developing a
mysterious limp, swallowing a foreign object, or many other possible
calamities. Kittens are like small human children. They have a talent
for getting themselves into scrapes or picking up bugs. The veterinary
costs typically vary from a $35 exam (to be on the safe side) to $300
emergency surgery or treatment (off-hours).

I. Occasionally, the queen requires a C-section to deliver her kittens
or may require treatment after the birth of the kittens due to
lactational diarrhea, intestinal obstruction, mastitis, hemorrhaging,
uterine infection, or other complications. The costs associated with
treating these problems may run up to $1200 for an emergency off-hours
C-section. Also, if C-section is required up to half of the litter may
die due to side effects of the anesthesia. Kittens may also be lost
due to the effects of complications on the queen's milk production.

J. The queen will require at least one precautionary prenatal or
perinatal veterinary examination, $35.00.

Total costs per litter in best case scenario where all goes well and
somehow no kitten gets sick = $1085

If you are only interested in 'breeding pets', please don't.  Please
don't risk the health of your cats (females can and do die giving
birth)  and any kittens that might come about through your breeding
efforts.  If you want another Persian, your best bet is to rescue one
of the thousands of Persians that have been given up because people
aren't prepared for the grooming involved in loghaired cats.  If you
simply must have a Persian kitten, then go to a responsible breeder
and get one of their pet quality kittens to bring that joy into your
lives.

If you answered 'no', or even 'I don't know' to *any* of the above
questions, please just neuter your cats and enjoy them as the loving
pets I am sure they are.  Persian rescue already has many cats in it -
please don't add to them.

Orchid
See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
Want a Purebred Cat?  Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid
M.C. Mullen - 10 Apr 2004 06:59 GMT
<snip>

| If you answered 'no', or even 'I don't know' to *any* of the above
| questions, please just neuter your cats and enjoy them as the loving
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
| See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage
| Want a Purebred Cat?  Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid

Excellent answer!

Carola
 
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