Cat Forum / Rescue / July 2004
MUST give away Tonkinese!
|
|
Thread rating:  |
Phil - 29 Jun 2004 21:48 GMT We have a Tonkinese female, about 6 years old, that we absolutely must get out of the house. We want her to have a good home, but the Tonkinese rescue group has not been responsive, despite repeated efforts for their help. The cat must go. She urinates huge amounts of urine periodically, so she must be confined where she can not destroy property. She is housed in a room and gets attention, but she can not be a member of this household. The vet says she is healthy. This last time, the cat jumped on our bed like she always does, ambled over to us as my wife and I lay under the covers, and as she walked across the bed, unloaded a 2 foot long mass of urine, spreading to half a foot wide, and in a manner of minutes, soaked through a comforter, electric blanket, two sheets, and partially into a brand new mattress. Luckily, I saved the mattress. The cat will do these kinds of things, within 10 feet of perfectly clean cat box. She will do it if people are home or not. We can not establish any pattern. Typically happens once every few weeks.
We have made the decision to relinquish ownership. She has papers. I just want to make sure she has a good home, that can deal with her unusual behaviors. The cat is otherwise just fine, affectionate, playful (loves chasing laser pointer dot, keeping away from eyes), eats well, etc.. Has all claws, but is spayed. Tolerates our 13 year old, laid back Dalmatian, but the cat is more fearful of her than she needs to be. The dog could care less about the cat.
If anyone can direct me to someone who can help with rescue, I would appreciate it. We live in the San Francisco bay area.
Thanks,
- Phil
Sunflower - 30 Jun 2004 04:48 GMT > We have a Tonkinese female, about 6 years old, that we absolutely must get > out of the house. We want her to have a good home, but the Tonkinese rescue [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > - Phil This is not the description of a cat that is easily rehomed. I can see why rescue hasn't gotten back to you. Most likely given her history, she will be euthanized or cruelly spend the rest of her life in a small cage if they even take her. If you have any affection for this animal, then take her in to the vet yourself and have her euthanized. I understand why she can't be a part of your family, but no other family is going to want her either. You owe it to her to make sure her last moments on earth are with the family she knows and loves now. I know it's hard for you to euthanize her, but it's part of the bargain you made when you gave her a home in the first place. If you cannot provide her with a good life, at least provide her with a good death.
zuzu22@webtv.net - 30 Jun 2004 14:02 GMT <snip> Recommending euthanasia without even getting details of what has been done so far is unconscionable and reprehensible. The owner hasn't even tried medication, which cures the majority of cats with this issue, and it also should be noted that this behavior happens once every few weeks, which makes the likelihood of correcting this problem even better. Telling him to kill the cat is disgusting on your part.
Megan
 Signature
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com
Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way."
- W.H. Murray
Sunflower - 30 Jun 2004 17:43 GMT > <snip> > Recommending euthanasia without even getting details of what has been [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Megan No, it's reality. I'm sorry if you don't like it. THe OP wants to rehome the cat. Period. He wasn't looking for suggestions as to try to deal with the problem. He "says" the vet found no problems, and although I don't know what types of testing the OP had done, at this point, it doesn't matter. He wants the cat gone. And as far as "medication" to cure the anxiety urination issues, it only works about 20% of the time. Yes, I know from personal experience on that one, as well as working with our Humane Society.
There isn't one single sane person on the planet who *wants* to live in a home with a cat peeing all over it. Sure, we do sometimes when we think it's a short term issue that can be cured, but other than making the cat live in isolation in a room fully able to be washed down and disinfected constantly, there has to be some sort of progress in the behavior for it to be at all tolerated. We share our homes with animals on the expectation that they will modify their natural instincts somewhat to suit our human fastidiousness. If the animal can't adapt to being in a home, then all that is left is being outside, euthanasia, or life in a cage. A good death is preferable to a bad life in my opinion and I consider a life spent in a cage a bad life.
So the truth is, you have a unadoptible animal to anyone who knows the story. What is going to happen to this animal? He'll dump it off at the shelter where it'll be euthanized by strangers or someone else picks the animal out not knowing the past behavior to give a home to and starts to experience the same behavior, and repeats the cycle. How cruel to the cat is that?
Better to accept the full responsibility of pet ownership and have the animal euthanized than to pass the problem along to strangers and totally traumatize the cat in it's last moments.
Phil - 30 Jun 2004 18:24 GMT Well stated, however difficult it may be to accept. We, as a family, and even the breeder, recognize what may have to be done. As you stated, we also have to try and determine if the problem is at all fixable. If not, then passing it along to another person is irresponsible. This is why I am telling people exactly what they are getting. I know that makes it harder to place the cat, but it is the right thing to do.
- Phil
> > <snip> > > Recommending euthanasia without even getting details of what has been [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > animal euthanized than to pass the problem along to strangers and totally > traumatize the cat in it's last moments. zuzu22@webtv.net - 01 Jul 2004 00:11 GMT > No, it's reality. What a bunch of bullshit. It doesn't have to be and killing a healthy cat that has a yet undetermined cause for her issue is WRONG.
>I'm sorry if you don't > like it. THe OP wants to rehome the cat. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > types of testing the OP had done, at > this point, it doesn't matter. Of course it matters, but you're so intent on making sure this cat is murdered you didn't even bother to ask.
> He wants the cat gone. Maybe so, but often people are so stressed by what's happening they don't feel they have any other choice. Often when they receive support, feedback and advice from those of us who have actual experience in dealing with this issue, they have hope and go on to find a SOLUTION that doesn't involve KILLING. The whole reason "most of us," with the obvious exception of YOU, are here is to help people and give advice on how the cat can keep its home. This is not rec.pets.cats-kill-the-cat-because-you-can't-bother-to-find-a-solution. It's a rescue group, and part of that means helping people find a way to keep their cats.
>And as far as "medication" > to cure the anxiety urination issues, it > only works about 20% of the time. More bullshit. There are many medications used to deal with this issue and 20% is not accurate for many of the ones I have experience with. FYI the Tuft's behavior clinic reports a 90%+ success rate using Prozac. There are other medications that are nearly as successful, and a lot of it also depends on the cat. I have been in rescue for over 25 years and currently have 24 cats, several of which came with urination issues. I have also had cats in the past with same. I have had 100% success in using medication, and have been successful using diet and supplements to control two other cats with interstitial cystitis, which I suspect the OP's cat may have. I also know several people who have also had a 100% success rate using medication, including a cat that sprayed for 6 years and was confined to a basement for the last two years because he was destroying the house. He was put on Prozac and has not had one single spraying incident since and is now allowed in the rest of the house and he's been on it for over a year now.
>Yes, I > know from personal experience on that > one, as well as working with our Humane > Society. Apparently you haven't had much, or done you homework.
> There isn't one single sane person on > the planet who *wants* to live in a home [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > some sort of progress in the behavior > for it to be at all tolerated. For progress to be made there has to be investigation of why it happens. Asking what has been done so far and offering ideas may help save this cat, regardless of what the OP originally says. You want to go straight to *killing* this cat. It's disgusting and if this is how you view things you have ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS being in *any* aspect of rescue.
>We share > our homes with animals on the > expectation that they will modify their > natural instincts somewhat to suit our > human fastidiousness. That's completely the wrong expectation, and nobody that thinks this way should have animals. *Intelligent* people understand that you have to provide an environment for the cat that allows it to exhibit "natural behaviors" in a way that allows us to coexist peacefully. That's why we have litterboxes and scratching posts, etc. You can't force or expect a cat to be anything other than a cat.
>If the animal > can't adapt to being in a home, then all [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > opinion and I consider a life spent in a > cage a bad life. That's why you make the commitment to get the cat out of the cage and into a home, not KILL it! Yes, some cats are harder to home, but it can be done and it's wrong to kill a cat when there are still many things to try. Apparently you don't think so and would rather play executioner.
> So the truth is, you have a unadoptible > animal to anyone who knows the story. Not necessarily, and especially when not everything has been tried.
> What is going to happen to this animal? > He'll dump it off at the shelter where [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > behavior, and repeats the cycle. How > cruel to the cat is that? Or he could try medication, and try a diet to control possible interstitial cystitis (which is VERY easy) and the cat may stop the behavior.
> Better to accept the full responsibility > of pet ownership and have the animal > euthanized than to pass the problem > along to strangers and totally > traumatize the cat in it's last moments. Accepting full responsibility of pet ownership does not include KILLING a healthy animal that has a once every few weeks peeing incident. A *responsible* pet owner understands that cats don't do this for no reason, and will ask for help trying to find a solution. *Responsible * people don't murder animals because they can't be bothered to do a few simple things that might very well correct the problem. THAT'S reality.
Megan
 Signature
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke
Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com
Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22
"Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way."
- W.H. Murray
Sunflower - 01 Jul 2004 16:43 GMT I take it then that you are going to accept this animal into your home? Our shelter also currently has 2 other cats that were surrendered with inappropriate elimination issues and who are fully healthy. Would you like to arrange transportation for them too? And the 20% figure that I gave for the behavior modification with Prozac is exactly what the 4 different vets who work with the Humane Society also gave me. It's also what I've experienced personally with shelter cats and one of my own personal cats. Medication did NOT help. Two years of trying everything under the sun did nothing, and my own cat became more and more anxious and nervous, which is why I ended up fostering him and keeping him in the first place. I do blame it on his declaw, which he came to me with and had to be redone it was botched so badly. For that reason, he could not go out to the barn with the feral colony that I maintain. $1200 worth of medical tests, with all of them coming back normal. What would you suggest now?
When someone's made the decision to relinquish an animal, that decision has been made. You might change the mind of 25% of them with further information, but usually, they just end up relinquishing the animal later when someone else is on the intake desk. By the time the ads go out and the shelter is visited, it's a done deal. That animal either finds a new home, or is tossed out. It's better that an animal be euthanized by an owner than to be relinquished to some of the awful kill shelters I've seen, and better to be euthanized than go to some of the no kill facilities I've seen as well. If an animal is living in a shelter situation, it's cruel to keep them there longer than about 6 months. Living life in a 30 inch cat tower isn't a life. Rescues themselves have a responsibility to not be cruel to the animals in their charge, and making an animal live their life out in a shelter is cruel.
Not all animals problems can be fixed and not all animals can be saved. Since rescue resources are limited, they go further if you admit that there are those that shouldn't be taken on, and help 5 other cats in their place. That's also realistic.
Cat Protector - 01 Jul 2004 17:27 GMT This from the person who suggested that the OP have the cat euthanized.
 Signature Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek
Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com
> I take it then that you are going to accept this animal into your home? Our > shelter also currently has 2 other cats that were surrendered with [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > are those that shouldn't be taken on, and help 5 other cats in their place. > That's also realistic. Electric Nachos - 30 Jun 2004 19:36 GMT What a horrible suggestion! Accordingly, perhaps your parents should have killed you upon discovery of one of your flaws!!!
I think cats are about the dumbest creatures on this planet - but I would never KILL them just because they won't go pee-pee in the cat-pot! What kind of human are you!?!?
Just throw the damn thing outside. CATS LIKE TO BE OUTSIDE!!!!!!!
Sunflower wrote in message ...
>> We have a Tonkinese female, about 6 years old, that we absolutely must get >> out of the house. We want her to have a good home, but the Tonkinese [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >If you cannot provide her with a good life, at least provide her with a good >death. Wendy - 30 Jun 2004 20:07 GMT > What a horrible suggestion! Accordingly, perhaps your parents should have > killed you upon discovery of one of your flaws!!! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Just throw the damn thing outside. CATS LIKE TO BE OUTSIDE!!!!!!! <not touching the inside outside debate with a 10 ft pole>
Are you suggesting this cat be left out 24/7?
If not why do you thing putting the cat outside will stop the peeing when she's inside?
W
Electric Nachos - 02 Jul 2004 07:29 GMT Wendy wrote in message ...
>> What a horrible suggestion! Accordingly, perhaps your parents should have >> killed you upon discovery of one of your flaws!!! [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Are you suggesting this cat be left out 24/7? Cats prefer the outdoors. Humans prefer the indoors. Cats are not human.
>If not why do you thing putting the cat outside will stop the peeing when >she's inside? Putting a cat outside will STOP a cat from Peeing INSIDE.
>W Wendy - 02 Jul 2004 12:15 GMT > Wendy wrote in message ... > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > >W OK then you are suggesting putting the cat outside all day, every day. Just wanted to make sure I understood exactly what you were suggesting.
I can't say I can agree with your blanket cats prefer outside statement. Just like people I'm sure they prefer inside in the rain, snow, cold weather, when being picked on etc.
If a cat has always been inside they find being outside very stressful.
W
Linda Terrell - 02 Jul 2004 16:12 GMT > > Wendy wrote in message ... > > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > >kind > > >> of human are you!?!?
> OK then you are suggesting putting the cat outside all day, every day. Just > wanted to make sure I understood exactly what you were suggesting. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > W Right now, putting her outside seems to be the best thing. Then you can keep her but not have to put up with the peeing.
Build/buy an enclosure for her -- outside cats end up not peeing at all because they get hit by cars, or killed by dogs or poison. So keep her in some kind of enclosure. Something simple with chicken wire and a cat tree and covered box inside.
LT
--
Cat Protector - 01 Jul 2004 07:20 GMT That is terrible that you would suggest euthanasia. Unless the cat is terribly sick and has no chance of being saved they should not be euthanized. This problem might be easily solved and the cat most likely can live a long and healthy life. You also can't predict that a cat will spend the rest of their life in a cage. Haven't you ever heard of a no-kill shelter?
 Signature Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek
Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com
"Sunflower" <sunflwrNOSPAM@midsouth.rr.com> wrote in message news:YJqEc.174772
> This is not the description of a cat that is easily rehomed. I can see why > rescue hasn't gotten back to you. Most likely given her history, she will [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > If you cannot provide her with a good life, at least provide her with a good > death. Luvskats00 - 30 Jun 2004 07:43 GMT Bless you for trying to find a home for this special needs cat. Perhaps there is a medical problem..or it is behavioral. Can you get the vet to rule out a medical disability? If so, then maybe a cat behaviorist can help you work out this problem. A feline behaviorist is either a vet of a PHD who has devoted a career to cat behavior. I adopted a 6 year old spayed female last September (already having a then 4 year old neutered male). For 3 months, she urinated and deficated on the bedroom floor and on my bed. I was at my wits end. I showered her with attention AND experimented with different litters. My cats had been using newspapers (not litter) for years. Since she didn't care for newspapers, I tried Fresh Step, store brand litter, and finally, Feline Pine. She loves Feline Pine (my other cat doesn't care for it) and uses the box all the time now. If none of this is of interest, then please try to locate local cat rescue groups (I live in NY and found 3-4 groups through Petco. They work with them and showcase adoptable cats in their retail stores.) Also, put up a flyer with local vets....This may be a special needs kitty..maybe not. Also, check with petfinder.com. I don't know if this website accepts private listings, but if you do a general search via location/cats, you will locate some local rescue groups in your area..maybe they can take your cat or post a listing while you play forster parent. Much good luck to you.
Phil - 30 Jun 2004 18:16 GMT The vet said there was minor bladder infection, which has been eliminated. More significantly, the breeder stated to us that the cat has urinated outside the litter box on occasion during the 5 years she had her, from kttenhood, even urinating on her directly. It was felt this would stop with a loving home. Not so apparently. Your information on the rescue is useful, and I will follow up on it.
- Phil
> Bless you for trying to find a home for this special needs cat. Perhaps there > is a medical problem..or it is behavioral. Can you get the vet to rule out a [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > groups in your area..maybe they can take your cat or post a listing while you > play forster parent. Much good luck to you. frlpwr - 05 Jul 2004 02:39 GMT (snip)
> More significantly, the breeder stated to us that the cat has urinated > outside the litter box on occasion during the 5 years she had her, > from kttenhood, even urinating on her directly. Sounds like this cat was used as a breeding queen. It's not unusual for overbred females to lose muscle tone and to have difficulty with incontinence. This poor girl is facing death because she was misused by a breeder.
Since you mentioned unusually large quantities of urine, make sure the vet has checked for diabetes. Abundant urine is a classic symptom.
Wendy - 30 Jun 2004 12:30 GMT > We have a Tonkinese female, about 6 years old, that we absolutely must get > out of the house. We want her to have a good home, but the Tonkinese rescue [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > - Phil Did the vet do blood work and urine testing?
You didn't say how long you've had this cat. Is she recently adopted or have you had her since kittenhood and this is a recent development? If the later has something changed around your home?
If a medical problem has been completely ruled out then you have a behavioral problem. You haven't said what you've tried to change this behavior so I'll just throw out some thoughts.
Because of the quantity of urine you describe it almost sounds like she holds her urine until she can't any longer. She might be afraid to use the box or not like something about the box.
You could try Cat Attract litter http://www.preciouscat.com/ or just try different textures/materials, scented/un-scented.
If you use a covered box, uncover it. If it isn't covered try a covered one.
The box might be in an area where there is too much traffic (human or canine). She might be happier with a more private location. Make sure the box isn't too close to her food.
If she poops in the box but won't urinate in it she might not like doing both in the same box. You could try setting up a second box.
She might be stressed by the dog or any number of other things. You may want to try a Feliway diffuser. Feliway puts pheromes into the air that can calm the cat.
I hope you can find a solution to her problem because she will be almost impossible to rehome unless this issue can be resolved.
Good Luck! I do understand your frustration.
W
Phil - 30 Jun 2004 18:10 GMT I would like to respond to all who responded, but given the number of responses, will need to be brief.
The vet did some work and detected a minor bladder infection, which was cured with antibiotics. Had her a year and a half. Pretty much doing this the whole time, although more of problem later on. She is 6-1/2 years old, and according to the breeder would occasionally have the urination problem with her as well. The breeder and us figured she may stop this with good attention from us. So, problem could have existed from kittenhood. Don't know. The litter has not been changed, and is the same as the breeder used. Litter box location and dual boxes have had no impact. Both are uncovered. We tried a covered one but that did nothing either. The primary location for the box is a bathroom that is almost never used. The other box is in a laundry room. Since she is confined to one room now, there is just one litter box in that room. However, food is within 10 feet of the box.. She did urinate and poop in the same box, but occasionally will urinate somewhere else. She even pooped once outside the box, but just 15 feet away from it. We tried Feliaway, but our house is decent sized and the cost of this stuff is not cheap to use effectively. We discovered a three foot by three foot carpeted area she urinated on (must have been more than once), which I cleaned up, and with Feliaway applied as directed, she never urinated there again. But, there is a LOT of house left.
Thank you for your comments. We have someone who might be interested in the cat. Hopefully, she can find peace and comfort there.
- Phil
> > We have a Tonkinese female, about 6 years old, that we absolutely must get > > out of the house. We want her to have a good home, but the Tonkinese [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > W Wendy - 30 Jun 2004 20:13 GMT > I would like to respond to all who responded, but given the number of > responses, will need to be brief. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > - Phil I gather you knew about this problem when you got her? If so I have to give you credit for giving it a try.
W
Phil - 01 Jul 2004 01:01 GMT Yes, we knew she had urinated in inappropriate places. The breeder did not make much of it, but it was felt this would cease if she got a better home, lots of attention, plenty of space, very comfortable surroundings, and quietness. She was confined to a bedroom with another cat at the breeder's house. We tried working with the cat for a year and a half. Vet visits, tests, FeliAway, cat box locations, number of cat boxes, etc.. Nothing has worked.
Yes, we tried. I don't know where this cat would be had we not come along.
- Phil
> > I would like to respond to all who responded, but given the number of > > responses, will need to be brief. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > W Wendy - 01 Jul 2004 12:13 GMT > Yes, we knew she had urinated in inappropriate places. The breeder did not > make much of it, but it was felt this would cease if she got a better home, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > - Phil They do sell diapers for cats. Might help as a temporary measure.
http://www.joybies.com/pagecat.html
W
Cat Protector - 01 Jul 2004 16:03 GMT A nice idea. But do they work? If the problem is not medical then it is psychological and I do know that they have psychics for animals. That too is a solution because the credible ones can get to the source of the problem.
 Signature Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek
Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com
>They do sell diapers for cats. Might help as a temporary measure. > > http://www.joybies.com/pagecat.html > > W Arjun Ray - 02 Jul 2004 18:22 GMT | Yes, we knew she had urinated in inappropriate places. The | breeder did not make much of it [...] We tried working with | the cat for a year and a half. So, why isn't the breeder taking the cat back?
Phil - 02 Jul 2004 19:15 GMT The breeder can't because there is longer any room for it. - Phil
> | Yes, we knew she had urinated in inappropriate places. The > | breeder did not make much of it [...] We tried working with > | the cat for a year and a half. > > So, why isn't the breeder taking the cat back? -L. : - 04 Jul 2004 06:51 GMT > The breeder can't because there is longer any room for it. - Phil That's completely unacceptable. The breeder should take this cat back, no questions asked.
This is why I freaking hate cat breeders.
-L.
-L. : - 04 Jul 2004 06:52 GMT > The breeder can't because there is longer any room for it. - Phil That's completely unacceptable. The breeder should take this cat back, no questions asked.
This is why I freaking hate cat breeders.
-L.
-L. : - 04 Jul 2004 06:52 GMT > The breeder can't because there is longer any room for it. - Phil That's completely unacceptable. The breeder should take this cat back, no questions asked.
This is why I freaking hate cat breeders.
-L.
Arjun Ray - 07 Jul 2004 04:42 GMT |> So, why isn't the breeder taking the cat back? | | The breeder can't because there is longer any room for it. Then this breeder deserves to have whatever there is of his/her reputation completely destroyed. Breeding is a sick business anyway, but those among them who don't even take cats back are truly scum.
Luvskats00 - 07 Jul 2004 06:32 GMT >... Breeding is a sick business anyway, but those among them who don't even take cats back are truly scum.
Maybe there is a certain "time frame" in which the breeders are obligated to take the cat back. Perhaps it's unreasonable to hold the breeders to a lifetime guarantee...or a year, which i think was the time the guardian had the sick cat.
Arjun Ray - 07 Jul 2004 07:36 GMT | Maybe there is a certain "time frame" in which the breeders | are obligated to take the cat back. Perhaps it's unreasonable | to hold the breeders to a lifetime guarantee Um, no.
There is no reputable rescue organization that I know of that doesn't have a return policy. And this is a commitment by people who weren't even responsible for the cats existing to begin with.
A breeder *is* responsible for a cat existing at all, and if that doesn't obligate a lifelong commitment, then nothing ever could. Breeders who try to evade this through "limited warranties" and whatnot are scum, in my book.
In this case, the cat was *known* to have a problem before the adoption. Phil was willing to give it a try. That in no way allowed the breeder to be done with the cat. In fact, I'm amazed that the breeder is trying to beg off in this case. It only deepens the contempt in which I hold all breeders.
MaryL - 07 Jul 2004 11:44 GMT > | Maybe there is a certain "time frame" in which the breeders > | are obligated to take the cat back. Perhaps it's unreasonable [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > doesn't have a return policy. And this is a commitment by people > who weren't even responsible for the cats existing to begin with. I agree. Our local O'Malley Alley Cats organization guarantees that they will take back any cat at any time. In fact, people who adopt from them are required to sign an agreement that the cat will be returned to O'Malley if the adopter decides to give up the cat for *any* reason. Unfortunately, one was returned just this week and is being fostered until another home can be found. (Husband and wife are divorcing.)
MaryL
Tracy - 08 Jul 2004 03:43 GMT > > | Maybe there is a certain "time frame" in which the breeders > > | are obligated to take the cat back. Perhaps it's unreasonable > > | to hold the breeders to a lifetime guarantee Well, it seems clear that the cat is a breeding casualty, used by an unscrupulous breeder to excess and then more or less dumped at an advanced age on Phil (who will hopefully learn from this experience not to buy cats from crappy breeders), or preferably not to buy cats at all. It's a sad story. The best thing I can think of to do is to try, patiently, to rehome the cat as a "special needs cat" with either a breed rescue, no-kill shelter or owner who is used to dealing with special needs cats. It's possible, but it sure isn't easy and it will take some time. Since the urinary problems are most likely related to excessive breeding and probably some psychological stress (from the breeder, not Phil, I hope the necessary patience can be found. If I were the owner of the cat, I'd also find some cat breeding organizations, the CFA if no one else, and rat out this breeder for irresponsible and callous behavior. It's totally unacceptable behavior to farm out a used-up queen with physical damage and then refuse to take her back. Makes me sick.
Cat Protector - 01 Jul 2004 07:24 GMT You say the litter has not been changed? If you don't clean the litterbox no wonder the cat is going to the bathroom outside of it.
 Signature Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek
Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com
> I would like to respond to all who responded, but given the number of > responses, will need to be brief. [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] > > > > W Phil - 01 Jul 2004 07:34 GMT The cat litter brand has not been changed. It is the same the breeder was using. The litter itself is cleaned every day, and changed out on a less frequent basis.
- Phil
> You say the litter has not been changed? If you don't clean the litterbox no > wonder the cat is going to the bathroom outside of it. [quoted text clipped - 130 lines] > > > > > > W Mary - 07 Jul 2004 17:38 GMT >You say the litter has not been changed? LOL!
Cat Protector - 01 Jul 2004 07:16 GMT I have to wonder if you even went to a vet to have this problem looked into. I think it is terrible you think this cat is disposable. I hope this cat gets a good home because you obviously care more about your property (which can be cleaned or replaced) than this cat. Why is it that people like yourself treat this cat like a beer can? This is a life we are talking about. Would you get rid of a human child if they had a medical issue? Though some might applaud that you are wanting to see this cat in a good home, I have to wonder if you'll get another cat that you'll end up dumping into a shelter or on the street because you chose not to handle your lifelong responsibility. This cat deserves better and I hope she gets a good and loving home because obviously her humans do not care enough to give her the very best care. If you decide to keep her then a vet can possibly find the problem if it is medical. It might be easily solved or it may be stress that is causing it.
 Signature Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek
Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com
> We have a Tonkinese female, about 6 years old, that we absolutely must get > out of the house. We want her to have a good home, but the Tonkinese rescue [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > - Phil Phil - 01 Jul 2004 08:17 GMT Well, I figured a response like this would come along sooner or later. If you read three of my other responses in this thread you would not have to wonder if we had the problem looked into by a vet. We have. I never said the cat is "disposable". Do I care more about my property than the cat? Well, there is a balance! I expect and tolerate occasional mistakes and/or damage from a pet. But, no sane person is going to tolerate $1500 mattresses, $1000 couches, etc. being destroyed by a cat, on a regular basis. Sure, it can be cleaned (sometimes), or replaced, but there is no way I am willing to spend that kind of money, CONSTANTLY, to keep a cat. Nor am I willing to have guests over and have their belongings urinated on. It may be worth it to you, and maybe you can even afford to do that, but personally, I think that's nuts. Moreover, I am not obligated to adhere to your standards, so quit trying to apply them to me.
Treat a cat like a beer can? You know precious little about how I treat a cat. You don't know that the last cat we had was also a rescue kitten, that we kept her for 17 years and euthanised after she was falling apart due to old age, and suffering. Our other cat was a also a rescue kitten who found another home. I, and my wife love animals, with both of us rescuing everything from a spider in the house, to rattlesnakes and other snakes on the road, to lost kittens and dogs, and injured birds. With all due respect, you are clueless on how I treat animals or this cat, so cut the judgment crap.
Yes, it is a life we are talking about, and I am doing all that I can to ensure the cat gets the best life possible. I could take the most expedient solution and just drop her off at the ASPCA. But, I am not doing that. If your standards for "life" are so high, do you care about the snakes I rescue, or do you even blink an eye when you see one hit or run over on the road? A squirrel? Deer?
Your equating of human child with a cat is course, laughably absurd. If that were at all sensible, then I guess I ought to be telling my daughter, "sorry can't pay for the college tuition because we have some expensive ongoing vet bills to pay". Ridiculous. I expect reasonable vet bills, but there is a limit. You have yours (maybe), I have mine.
We might get another cat. Or some other pet. If it is a problem, we will have to find a better life for it. Period. Of course, we always look for a pet that appears to be a good fit for our home. Dumping on the street or shelter? Gee whiz, I AM here on this board, trying to find a good home. If I was inclined to do as you suggest, why am I here?
Trust me, this cat has gotten very good care. Again, you have zero idea of the care we have given, so your assertions are baseless. But, if you are so certain my level of care is poor, and that destruction of property is tolerable, then you won't have any problem taking the cat will you? ....I thought so...
Your kind of response does absolutely NOTHING to help the cat, which I would expect is what you want. Your energies are directed at trying to assail people who don't fit with your "cat on a pedestal" mentality. If you really cared about the cat, you would come up with something useful to say. You should know this is the second time I have visited cat forums for help, and both times, I get your kind of drivel. Fortunately, some of the other posters have posted helpful information, a feature sorely missing in your rant.
If nothing else, remember this. I came here for some help. Your kind of response just turns people away or ticks them off, which may mean they will do the very thing you abhor. Dump on the street, shelter, or euthanize. How well does that sit with you?
- Phil
> I have to wonder if you even went to a vet to have this problem looked into. > I think it is terrible you think this cat is disposable. I hope this cat [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > > > - Phil Cat Protector - 01 Jul 2004 16:01 GMT You proved exactly my point. You care more for property than the cat. Things can be replaced, a life can't. Besides didn't you state earlier that you adopted the cat knowing the problem? How can you take in a special needs cat the one minute and then get rid of them the next? That is a pretty cold thing to do. You also adopted from a breeder instead of giving a cat in a shelter awaiting adoption a good home. Buy adopting from a breeder you do nothing to help in the overpopulation problem. As for the 17 year old rescue, it is funny you mention that when someone is bold enough to say they are against you tossing a cat out like a beer can. You also now state that you might get another cat and if they too are a problem will re-home them. How can you be so cold?
People like yourself should not adopt an animal unless you are willing to give them love and care for the rest of their life. Having a cat is a lifelong responsibility not some part-time one where if a problem happens the cat goes. You say my posts do nothing to help the cat but it does. It ensures that there are people willing to take a stand against those irresponsible humans who feel the cat is disposable when the problem can be easily solved. You mention how important your stuff is ratgher than how important the cat is. You say that if I cared about the cat that I should come up with something useful to say. Well I have but you just aren't listening. I first said get the cat to a vet and have this looked into but post after post you said they couldn't find a problem or that you have no idea what it is. You then started to complain about how your stuff is being ruined or how much it costs. That does nothing more than say "I care more about the money and my stuff than the cat."
I see people like you every day who drop cats off at the shelter or re-home a cat because they discover they can't handle the responsibility. Every one of them has an excuse like they are moving, new baby, my SO or I am is allergic, and any other weak reason for doing what they do. Too many humans are using shelters as drop-off points and they are filled to capacity because of the ever increasing overpopulation problem and also because some humans feel that when a problem happens they'd rather end their responsibility. I feel bad for the many cats that end up in shelters. Sure you didn't dump the cat out in the street but you also are making excuses by adding to the overpopulation problem and sending a message to many that it is ok to get rid of the cat if any problem arises. I hope you will not adopt another cat that needs a good and loving home unless you are fully prepared to take on the responsibility for not just part of the animals life but their entire lifetime.
As for your theory of my kind of message making people mad or resulting in dumping of the cat, that is pretty week. Before I even posted you made the decision to get rid of the cat. What kind of message do you think you are sending? At least when I have adopted a cat I did not dump them as soon as a problem has arisen. If anything my message says that every cat deserves a good and loving home and that adopting one takes great responsibility and care. If you are unprepared for the responsibility then don't adopt so you can ensure that cat has a long and happy life with a human who will take on that lifelong task.
 Signature Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek
Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com
> Well, I figured a response like this would come along sooner or later. If > you read three of my other responses in this thread you would not have to [quoted text clipped - 126 lines] > > > > > > - Phil Phil - 02 Jul 2004 19:36 GMT I responded to you inadvertently by private e-mail, and offered my apology for that. It would serve little purpose to repeat those private e-mail dialogues here. Suffice to say we each feel the other is 100% wrong and no amount of postings will ever change that. I had indicated we are done and you wished your response would be the last e-mail. This is the end.
- Phil
> You proved exactly my point. You care more for property than the cat. Things > can be replaced, a life can't. Besides didn't you state earlier that you [quoted text clipped - 203 lines] > > > > > > > > - Phil
|
|
|