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Cat Forum / Rescue / October 2003Feral kittens not really scared but..
Hi, I found feral 3 kittens behind my shed one hissed and spit at me when I first caught him(not now though) ,the other two look concerned but were non-violent and I put them all in a sac and brought them inside. (Im guessing there are 5-7 weeks old , Im no expert. ,but I suspect the mother(which is stand-offish when I bring food out for other cats)brought them Near where I place the feeding dish after they were weaned) I was worried I was taking them in too young , But I've read that Feral kittens , the younger the better. I made a makeshift nursery out of a closet , cardbox box(for their sanctuary) , litterbox, and box fan. The First time I feed them a few sardines and they gobbled them up, So I guess they are weaned off mother's milk, I've been feeding them moistened Kitten Chow and of course water , They all knew what the litter box was for :) I use the Boxfan wedged between the door and the sill , as a window for them, They look through the grate but cannot get out ,it also gives them a little more play space when door is not fully closed. I had them for 3 days now,Im sitting right on the other side of the box fan they come by the box fan and cry and try to climb out, go under the door, and jump to get out and cry some more.It looks real pitiful and sad. I pet them on the ground , and sometimes put them in the lap of my arms , pet them , give cheek rubs, etc. none of them hiss, but they are intent on crawling away from me to escape, .I put them back behind the box fan and they start to cry and escape again. I thought they would be inside the cardboard box afraid for the first few days but they dont seem to view me as a major threat otherwise they would hide in the box and not put their paws on the grate and cry. Im guessing they miss what they knew for the first 5 weeks of their life. and want to get back to familiar surroundings. I cant let them out , in the room because they will beeline to underneath the bed and It will be a pain to get them. I intend to let them out of the closet once I see they they arent interested in escaping anymore. I want to tame them, so we Can have to cats we can actually pet when they get older.(then maybe the other ferals will see this and let me pet them?) I play with them , With feathers on a string , not too interested , like I said more interested in getting out of the closet They just sleep , eat , or cry/escape Is this normal for kittens to cry and escape? Will they eventually stop crying/trying to escape and start playing with eachother more in the closet ? Suggestions? Thanks, You are correct, the younger the kitten the better. Just remember that if you decide to take in these kittens it's a lifetime decision. You will from now on control their universe. You will control everything from feeding time to play time. You need to consider taking them to the vet to be checked up and given their shots. You also need to think about if you want to have them neutered/castrated and declawed (although it's considered inhumane in some areas). If you decide that you don't want the cat's you need to turn them over to the Humane Society or a No Kill Shelter as soon as possible. Kittens are predominantly adopted more than a one year old cat, which nobody wanted to begin with. Do the right thing. > Hi, I found feral 3 kittens behind my shed one hissed and spit at me when I > first caught him(not now though) ,the other two look concerned but were [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Thanks, ISO wrote: >You need to consider taking them to the vet to be checked up and given their >shots. It goes beyond "considering." This is a must, and the kittens should be checked for worms and tested for FIV/Felv as well. >You also need to think about if you want >to have them neutered/castrated and >declawed (although it's considered >inhumane in some areas). Neutering is mandatory, NOT something someone should "think about." Declawing is considered inhumane and cruel on the majority of the planet with the unfortunate exceptions of the US and Canada. For you to even mention this as something to "think about" at all is disgusting and irresponsible. Feral cats take declawing especially hard and many never recover. That's the reason I started my website, because of the abuse inflicted on a feral cat that never recovered and now lives in a cage most of the time because she urinates everywhere as a result of being declawed. >If you decide that you don't want the >cat's you need to turn them over to the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >year old cat, which nobody wanted to >begin with. Do the right thing. If the poster really wants to do the right thing, they will ignore your idiotic advice. Unsocialized cats and kittens are considered "unadoptable" and are killed. If the poster can't keep the kittens for whatever reason the responsible thing to do is to find a good home for them, however long it takes. Dumping them on an overburdened shelter who shouldn't have to take on the responsibility of someone that is perfectly capable of housing and finding homes for the kittens is the WRONG thing to do. I suggest you stop typing such nonsense and start seeing reality. Megan  Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > If the poster really wants to do the right thing, they will ignore your > idiotic advice. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > housing and finding homes for the kittens is the WRONG thing to do. I > suggest you stop typing such nonsense and start seeing reality I intend to keep them all in the house for now,At around 5-6 months , I will take them all to get fixed. and release them into my backyard.and Feed them daily IF I get really attached by then or they're scared of the outside, I might keep them as House cats. Im also going to trap momma cat and get her fixed and release her in my yard. Thanks, Rooster, You may want to check your state and local laws regarding releasing felines into the neighborhood. I know the state that I used to live in, significantly cut down the feral cat colony population. There were too many complaints regarding felines urinating and defecating in neighbor's yards, going through trash... Unfortunately, the complaints drew attention from animal control and the felines were taken into custody. From there animal control determined the age of the feline, sex and if it had any medical problems. It may seem unfair, but you may want to review your local laws regarding feral's. If you do plan to release the cats into your area, make sure you have them neutered, and all vaccinations taken care of. You may also want to consider tagging the cats, so if they are trapped and taken into custody the will call you instead of doing something else. Below is the local ordinance regarding animals, which was rewritten just a few months ago and it includes cats/felines. No ANIMAL shall be allowed to unreasonably annoy humans, to endanger the life or health of other ANIMALS or PERSONS acting lawfully, or to substantially interfere with the rights of others thereby interfering with the reasonable use and enjoyment of property. It shall be prima facie evidence of nuisance if an ANIMAL: (1) consistently and/or constantly makes excessive noise; (2) causes damage to or destruction of another's property; (3) causes unsanitary, dangerous or offensive conditions, including the fouling of the air by offensive odor emanating from excessive excrement; or (4) creates a pest, parasite or scavenger control problem which is not effectively treated. (B) Upon receipt of an "Affidavit of Complaint," signed by 2 or more unrelated COUNTY residents, each residing in separate dwellings in the vicinity in which the alleged violation occurred, made under oath or affirmation before an individual authorized by law to take acknowledgments, setting forth the nature and the date of the act or acts, the OWNER of the ANIMAL, the address of the OWNER and description of the ANIMAL doing such act or acts, an ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICER shall conduct an investigation of the incident. In the discretion of the DEPARTMENT, other reliable evidence may replace one of the required affidavits. > > If the poster really wants to do the right thing, they will ignore your > > idiotic advice. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks, >I intend to keep them all in the house for >now,At around 5-6 months , I will take [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >then or they're scared of the outside, I >might keep them as House cats. If you keep the kittens until 5 or 6 months, they should be completely socialized and will be happy indoors. Releasing them to the outside at that point would not only be cruel, but likely a death sentence as they will not have been taught any type of survival skills by their mother and will easily fall victim to cars, predators, etc. If you can't keep them indoors, then it would be best to find them good homes with people who will. It's good you are going to trap the mother and have her spayed. If she turns out to be a nice cat it would be great if you can find her a caring home where she wont won't be exposed to the dangers of the outdoors. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > I intend to keep them all in the house for now,At around 5-6 months , I will > take them all to get fixed. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Thanks, This sounds very promising. Please forget about "if" you get really attached and just assume that it "will" happen. These babies are going to become *your* babies. I hope you will just move forward with the assumption that these kitties will be indoor-only cats from now on. They will be much safer that way. My very first cat was a feral cat (one that I adopted at about the age of 5 months), and he became a truly wonderful companion. Yours are younger, so they should become socialized more quickly. Many people on this group have a great deal of experience with rescue, and they can answer questions as you work your way through the process. Check with your vet on an appropriate age for neutering. The age you mentioned (5-6 months) used to be considered the optimum age. Now it is done much younger, and that would avoid any "complications" as they mature (assuming they may not be the same gender). The kittens do need more space to play. Please take the advice that some others have offered on this. Good luck! And thank you for adopting these kittens. You have just started a wonderful journey and will soon find that they give you at least as much pleasure as you give them. MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Photos of Duffy and Holly: http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") Megan, think about what you just wrote. If the poster decides the kittens are too much to handle, what do you expect him to do? Keep the cats and live unhappily? It's his call no matter how unkind you think the decision is. Also, declawing is not considered inhumane in the US although there are certain counties in different states that WILL NOT DO the procedure. Regarding turning the cats over to a Humane Society, or a No Kill Shelter, what would you rather happen; he put the cats back on the street and let the cats run free and possibly create a problems for his neighbors and the community, or at least try to find the kittens a place to live. I don't know where you live, but in the metropolis that I call home roughly 81% of the kittens that are taken into the Humane Society and the No Kill Shelters are feral, and they are NOT socialized before adoption. So you notion of non-socialized cats not being adopted and then euthanized doesn't hold water. I understand you are passionate about felines. However, not everyone in this world is. So, if the poster decided the kittens are too much to handle, or cant afford the vaccination costs, what is he left with? Post a sign in the front yard "Free Kitten to good Home?" Understandably, the kittens DO HAVE A RIGHT TO LIFE. But think about what you post before you post false statements. > ISO wrote: > >You need to consider taking them to the [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > - W.H. Murray > > Also, declawing is not considered inhumane in the US although there are > certain counties in different states that WILL NOT DO the procedure. Yes, declawing is considered inhumane by many of us in the U.S. It is not illegal in most of the U.S., but that is a different issue. MaryL (take out the litter to reply) ISO wrote: >think about what you post before you >post false statements. Take your own advice. I've be in cat rescue for 25 years and have more real life experience than you obviously have in your pinky finger. Nothing I said was false. The poster came here for advice and seems to want to do the right thing and I think they will continue to ask for advice and do what's best for the kittens. It's clear they are a novice at this sort of thing and just need some experienced help and direction. That does NOT entail declawing the kittens, which, despite your claim it is not considered inhumane, IS the utmost in cruelty and maims a cat for life. It also results in a high surrender rate to shelters after the cat develops one of the myriad of problems associated with declawing (biting, urinating outside the box.) The 300 declawed cats KILLED at ONE shelter in New Jersey over the course of a year because they had behavior problems would also disagree with your idiotic logic. As to dumping unsocialized cats at shelters, if what you say is true, and I know it's not (81% of kittens dumped at all your shelters then adopted are feral? yeah, right) then unless you can provide absolute proof this is true, which I doubt, yours is the exception and not the rule. If you don't believe me call Minneapolis Animal Control and ask them what they do to feral cats. Call 100 other shelters and ask them the same thing. You will get the same answer the majority of the time. Ferals are considered unadoptable and are killed. Most people want to adopt cute cuddly kittens or sweet adults and don't have the first clue about socializing wild cats or the patience it requires. There is also the issue of liability as feral cats can be dangerous and do harm. I know this first hand as I've socialized many ferals and have the scars to prove it. If you spent any time in a shelter you would know that the tame cats that spend their time in the back of the cage not interacting with people that come by rarely get adopted. What do you think happens with ferals? I suggest you stop posting, lurk for awhile and LEARN. I've seen what you've written so far and you're not doing cats any favors. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray The only point that I am trying to make MEGAN, is that the animals deserve a right to live. However, if the author doesn't have the means to support or take care of the kittens, what do you expect him/her to do? Since you claim to work at a shelter, then you have to agree that kittens are probably easiest to socialize. If the author dumps these cats on the street, as HIS DECISION in five to six months, where does that put our debate? Are the cats better off on the street, or at a no kill shelter? It's his call no matter what you or I think, claim, or believe. I say keep the kittens, accommodate them and if you cant handle three cats, then try to find homes for all three. If you can't find homes, and you cannot keep the cats turn them over to a shelter that will hopefully find a home for all three. I am against putting the cats outside letting all three roam. Regarding the declawing debate, it's just at touchy as abortion. No matter how cruel, inhumane, despicable, gross, unkind, ruthless, you or I feel about the process, it comes down to the owner of the cat. It's not illegal in any of the fifty states and it probably will never be. It's their decision that matters. My statistics for the feral population taken in are skewed, however since I no longer live in the area of the nation that had feral problems and colonies, I am willing to venture a guess and say my percentage is wrong, but not by much. Since so many cats are lumped into feral colonies, the actual definition has changed. When I lived in Florida, there were so many colonies of feral cats, and stray's that the city wouldn't put anything over two years up for adoption. So, it had to be less than two years of age to even be considered adoptable. I'm not saying its right, but the recent cat population has sky rocketed in the city I am in now. It's an unfortunate situation, but there is just no way, anyone will adopt every cat, even if the cats are free to a good home. I'm sorry that you disagree, but you don't have to disrespectfully disagree. > ISO wrote: > >think about what you post before you [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > > - W.H. Murray > I suggest you stop posting, lurk for awhile and LEARN. I've seen > what you've written so far and you're not doing cats any favors. ISO's constant use of the word "feline" when refering to kitties should be a huge clue to the mentality here. S/h/it doesn't get it. ISO's constant use of the word "feline" when refering to kitties should be a huge clue to the mentality here. S/h/it doesn't get it. I'm sorry if my lexicon supersedes your terminology. However, when you disagree with anyone, do don't have to disrespectfully disagree. That really shows your character! Just so, you know CHERYL, the term that you loosely throw around KITTY, holds no merit for your disagreement. Kitty is actually A pool of money, especially one to which a number of people have contributed for a designated purpose, like of a portion of each pot in a poker game. Moreover, just a little DID YOU KNOW for CHERYL, Felidae is actually redirected from Feline. Furthermore, ALL cats are members of the family Felidae, but just so you know CHERYL, it is actually Felis silvestris catus. NOT KITTY. There is a difference to the remainder of the world. The term cat most commonly means a domestic cat, although it can also be used to refer to the other members of the feline family. For example, lions, tigers, jaguars and the like are often referred to as the big cats. THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE! AND the next time you post something, press the F7 key. > > I suggest you stop posting, lurk for awhile and LEARN. I've seen > > what you've written so far and you're not doing cats any favors. > > > ISO's constant use of the word "feline" when refering to kitties > should be a huge clue to the mentality here. S/h/it doesn't get it. >ISO's constant use of the word "feline" when refering to kitties should be a >huge clue to the mentality here. S/h/it doesn't get it. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >and the like are often referred to as the big cats. THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE! >AND the next time you post something, press the F7 key. "Here feline, feline, feline! Feline, feline, feline - come and get your supper - here feline, feline, feline!" Yeah, sure - even most ferals know that they are called 'kitties', but I've never know any cat that instinctively responded to 'feline', or anything else but 'kitty'. We call them 'kitties' because that is what they want to be called. On a linguistic note, 'kitty' is a diminutive of 'kitten' when applied to cats. T.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D." somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected. I agree with you Ted, 100%. However, Cheryl is the one who doesn't understand the terminology. The truth is that you can call a cat by just about any name if its hungry, using the right tone of voice and it will come regardless. Nonetheless, I do understand were you are coming from. I am just giving Cheryl a hard time because she called me out. Regards, Iso > >ISO's constant use of the word "feline" when refering to kitties should be a > >huge clue to the mentality here. S/h/it doesn't get it. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D." > somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected. >>ISO's constant use of the word "feline" when refering to kitties should be a >>huge clue to the mentality here. S/h/it doesn't get it. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D." >somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected. Ever heard of a "cat fight"? > ISO's constant use of the word "feline" when refering to kitties > should be a huge clue to the mentality here. S/h/it doesn't get it. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > are often referred to as the big cats. THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE! AND > the next time you post something, press the F7 key. Huh? >>> I suggest you stop posting, lurk for awhile and LEARN. I've seen >>> what you've written so far and you're not doing cats any favors. >>> >> ISO's constant use of the word "feline" when refering to kitties >> should be a huge clue to the mentality here. S/h/it doesn't get it. Exactly! > > ISO's constant use of the word "feline" when refering to kitties > > should be a huge clue to the mentality here. S/h/it doesn't get it. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > >> ISO's constant use of the word "feline" when refering to kitties > >> should be a huge clue to the mentality here. S/h/it doesn't get it. > You also need to think about if you want to have them > neutered/castrated and declawed (although it's considered inhumane in some > areas). > The kittens need to be neutered, but do not even consider declawing. That is mutilation; in fact, it is amputation. Please find homes for these kittens. Feral kittens would have little chance of survival in an animal shelter. MaryL (take out the litter to reply) > You are correct, the younger the kitten the better. That depends. Just remember > that if you decide to take in these kittens it's a lifetime > decision. That is not true. They can be taken in as foster cats. To find the onetruehome. You will from now on control their universe. You will > control everything from feeding time to play time. You need to > consider taking them to the vet Consider?? If they are taken in it is a neccessity. to be checked up and given their > shots. You also need to think about if you want to have them > neutered/castrated Again, a neccessity. Whether they are kept as pets or fostered until they are found a onetruehome they need to be neutered. It can be done as young as 8 wks, or 2 lbs. and declawed (although it's considered inhumane > in some areas). Eh? You are condoning declawing of these babies??? If you decide that you don't want the cat's you > need to turn them over to the Humane Society or a No Kill Shelter > as soon as possible. They will be killed. No-kill shelters don't always mean that. They mean "adoptable" cats will be either fostered or held in a cage for a certain amount of time. Kittens who are feral are not considered adoptable as a standard. A sanctuary is what I think you mean. Kittens are predominantly adopted more than a > one year old cat, Wrong. I've seen too many grow up to be unadoptable *cats* and then they aren't wanted anymore than they were before they grew up. which nobody wanted to begin with. Do the right > thing. Which is have them vetted, shotted, neutered, fostered, hang up signs with cute stories about them with pictures and a sad story and find them their onetruehome. Iso, why didn't you have any words of wisdom to say to this post? >> You are correct, the younger the kitten the better. > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > signs with cute stories about them with pictures and a sad story > and find them their onetruehome. Probably because what you are referring to in the post, I am only fifty percent responsible for. The mumbled jargon which intertwines, I didn't write. > Iso, why didn't you have any words of wisdom to say to this post? > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > signs with cute stories about them with pictures and a sad story > > and find them their onetruehome. Probably because what you are referring to in the posting, I am only responsible for fifty percent. The mumbled jargon which intertwines, I didn't write. Furthermore, assuming the author does not want to keep the cats, or they find that fostering the cats is not acceptable, what are they to do? Not everyone shares your view of how best to handle the situation. There is not just ONE correct way to handle this situation. It's up to the caretaker of the cats to make the decision in this situation, not you or me. > Iso, why didn't you have any words of wisdom to say to this post? > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > signs with cute stories about them with pictures and a sad story > > and find them their onetruehome. > Probably because what you are referring to in the posting, I am only > responsible for fifty percent. The mumbled jargon which > intertwines, I didn't write. Well then quit top posting and the conversation might be a little easier to follow. Furthermore, assuming the author does > not want to keep the cats, or they find that fostering the cats is > not acceptable, what are they to do? Not everyone shares your view > of how best to handle the situation. There is not just ONE correct > way to handle this situation. It's up to the caretaker of the cats > to make the decision in this situation, not you or me. Duh. I offered a personal experience. It is all we can do. Who contributed to this thread first, you or me? I haven't once countered any post that you have contributed to any threads in any news groups. The only time I have to retort is when you call me an idiot, or question my logic. Granted we both have polar opposite experiences with kittens, and cats you have to understand that there isn't always one way to deal with the problems that arise. So regardless, of what you type or think of my postings, I won't stop contributing. All I ask is that you figure out how to find the spell check key and think before you type. > > Probably because what you are referring to in the posting, I am only > > responsible for fifty percent. The mumbled jargon which [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > Duh. I offered a personal experience. It is all we can do. > Who contributed to this thread first, you or me? Who gives a f.ck? >So regardless, of what you type or think of my postings, I won't stop > contributing. I didn't ask you to. I said, stop TOP posting. It confuses the thread. If you post inline, or snip what you're not replying to, there would be none of this confusion. The reason I keep TOP POSTING on your message, IS SO YOUR IGNORANT a.s CAN SEE THAT I AM DIRECTING MY POST TO YOU! JACKASS! Go finish your debate regarding "Liz's Food recommendations!" > > Who contributed to this thread first, you or me? > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > thread. If you post inline, or snip what you're not replying to, > there would be none of this confusion. And, yes, it is normal for the kittens to try to escape. They will eventually stop crying, but the chances of that happening any time soon are slim to none. It's going to progressively become worse as they get older, depending on the sex of the cat and temperament. They will eventually begin to pay with each other, but I would advise you to purchase some toys for the cats. Remember, from this day on they are depending on you for food and entertainment. > Hi, I found feral 3 kittens behind my shed one hissed and spit at me when I > first caught him(not now though) ,the other two look concerned but were [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Thanks, >I cant let them out , in the room because >they will beeline to underneath the bed >and It will be a pain to get them. Take the bed off of the frame temporarily so it sits on the floor, or get boxes , etc. you can put under the bed so they won't be able to get under it. These are young kittens and are at a very active stage. Keeping them in the closet is not kind and is also an exercise in futility. It is best to isolate them in the room for now until you can handle them more. Make sure to kittenproof the room so there are no electrical cords they can chew, string, vertical blind cords or other items that could cause them harm. A cardboard box or two with holes cut out will provide loads of entertainment for them. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray >> I cant let them out , in the room because >> they will beeline to underneath the bed [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Megan I am not sure about 3 kittens, but a cage comes to mind for socializing ferals. Worked wonders for my Bonnie.
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