Animals and anticipation

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whatthe@fu..?com - 08 Jul 2005 20:14 GMT

_________________________________________________________
On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:21:03 GMT, Goo wrote:

>Dogs NEVER anticipate, nor do cats, or
>cattle, or any other animal you've ever encountered.

Apparently Goo has a case of extreme ignorance.

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Ed Earl Ross - 09 Jul 2005 08:33 GMT

> _________________________________________________________
> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:21:03 GMT, Goo wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Apparently Goo has a case of extreme ignorance.

Perhaps, but I wish to point out that ignorance can be eliminated
with education. Moreover, Goo may mean something entirely different
than I when he says "Dogs NEVER anticipate, nor do cats, or cattle,
or any other animal you've ever encountered." I believe animals
anticipate.

I have a goat that roams the yard, except for immediately around
the house in the garden area. On several occasions, she has gotten
into the garden area, and we have chased her out with much noise.
Recently, she got in the garden, and we saw each other through the
window; whereupon, she walked to the gate and waited for me to let
her out. In other words, she anticipated that I would act.

BF Skinner, a famous phycologist, studied animals in "Skinner
boxes," a cage with electronics, such as two or three large buttons
and a bell. All kinds of animals were taught to respond (e.g.,
press a button) whenever a stimulus (a bell) occurred, whereupon,
the animal received food. To me, bell rings, animal anticipates
food, presses button, and receives food.

I cannot imagine learning without anticipation.

Signature

Humbly--Ed

"If the man doesn't believe as we do,
we say he is a crank, and that settles it.
I mean, it does nowadays, because now we
can't burn him." (Mark Twain)

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dh@. - 09 Jul 2005 17:16 GMT

>> _________________________________________________________
>> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:21:03 GMT, Goo wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Perhaps, but I wish to point out that ignorance can be eliminated
>with education.

The person must want to learn in order to do it. Goo thinks that
he already has learned. He thinks that everyone else who recognises
emotions in animals is really projecting their emotions into the animals
somehow...he believes it's a sort of voodoo or something that makes
the animals act like they are experiencing something he insists they
cannot experience.

>Moreover, Goo may mean something entirely different
>than I when he says "Dogs NEVER anticipate, nor do cats, or cattle,
>or any other animal you've ever encountered." I believe animals
>anticipate.

That's because you've been around them, and recognise what
you have seen. Goo not only has very little experience with animals,
but in his few encounters with them, if any of them have been in a
situation which caused them to anticipate--for example if someone
brought out a bag of cat food and a cat responded to that--he
admittedly was not able to recognise it when it happened right in
front of him.

>I have a goat that roams the yard, except for immediately around
>the house in the garden area. On several occasions, she has gotten
>into the garden area, and we have chased her out with much noise.
>Recently, she got in the garden, and we saw each other through the
>window; whereupon, she walked to the gate and waited for me to let
>her out. In other words, she anticipated that I would act.

Quite obviously to most people, but Goo would never be able
to understand it, much less figure it out for himself as you did.

>BF Skinner, a famous phycologist, studied animals in "Skinner
>boxes," a cage with electronics, such as two or three large buttons
>and a bell. All kinds of animals were taught to respond (e.g.,
>press a button) whenever a stimulus (a bell) occurred, whereupon,
>the animal received food.

I've read of similar experiments. The tasks they must perform become
more complicated too, and also the incentive. We learned about similar
experiments done with pigeons, in which the pigeons most definitely
had to learn to anticipate in order to get food, and also in some cases
to avoid things they didn't like such as electric shock.

>To me, bell rings, animal anticipates
>food, presses button, and receives food.
>
>I cannot imagine learning without anticipation.

That sort of thinking makes you much different from Goo. He can't
even understand such basic things as that. I do feel sorry for him, but
the fact that he considers himself extremely intelligent makes it funny
and also justifies any amusement we can get from his absurd beliefs.
I feel sure it would be fun to see you try, but you won't be able to teach
Goo anything. He will remain ignorant, and also remain ignorant of his
own ignorance.

Goo is very bad about making claims that he can't back up. This
is a particularly amusing one to me. We see animals clearly display
behavior which appears to be anticipation, in response to situations
which could easily cause anticipation, but Goo insists that they really
are not experiencing anticipation. So what does he think causes them
to act like they are??? Hilarious!

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Ed Earl Ross - 09 Jul 2005 17:38 GMT

Unredeemable ignorance is stupidity--the inability to learn.

>>>_________________________________________________________
>>>On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:21:03 GMT, Goo wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 68 lines]
> are not experiencing anticipation. So what does he think causes them
> to act like they are??? Hilarious!

Signature

Humbly--Ed

"If the man doesn't believe as we do,
we say he is a crank, and that settles it.
I mean, it does nowadays, because now we
can't burn him." (Mark Twain)

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banmilk@hotmail.com - 10 Jul 2005 20:55 GMT

> Unredeemable ignorance is stupidity--the inability to learn.

That would be The Goobernicius Gonad you just described.

> >>>_________________________________________________________
> >>>On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:21:03 GMT, Goo wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 76 lines]
> I mean, it does nowadays, because now we
> can't burn him." (Mark Twain)

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dh@. - 11 Jul 2005 13:35 GMT

>> Unredeemable ignorance is stupidity--the inability to learn.
>
>That would be The Goobernicius Gonad you just described.

Yes, Goobernicus: a moron who thinks he's a genius.

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