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Cat Forum / General Topics / June 2004Women and cats
Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where dogs usually make better pets for men? Of course, there are always exceptions. -- Sheena >Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where >dogs usually make better pets for men? Of course, there are >always exceptions. Probably has something to do with control and domination: dogs require donination and cat's can't be dominated. Of course there really isn't all that much truth in that rumor of yours: it's just that there are more male dominators and control freaks than women, at least in modern western cultures - elsewhere and elsewhen, it might be different. T.E.D. (tdavis@gearbox.maem.umr.edu) SPAM filter: Messages to this address *must* contain "T.E.D." somewhere in the body or they will be automatically rejected. > Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where > dogs usually make better pets for men? Of course, there are > always exceptions. Women and dogs are both high maintenance (demand attention, have to be taken "out" regularly, etc), men and cats are both low maintenance (happier left alone, as long as there's food available, etc). In general, of course. ; ) ryanm >Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where >dogs usually make better pets for men? Of course, there are >always exceptions. What has this got to do with 'anti-semitism'?? > >Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where > >dogs usually make better pets for men? Of course, there are > >always exceptions. > > What has this got to do with 'anti-semitism'?? Not to perpetuate this thread, but look at the cross-posting. What does cat and dog ownership have to do with nursing or audio either? Your reply prompted me to look at all the groups. I would call this person a troll. kilikini > > >Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where > > >dogs usually make better pets for men? Of course, there are [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and dog ownership have to do with nursing or audio either? Your reply > prompted me to look at all the groups. I would call this person a troll. It has to do with "Nursing" because of the therapeutic benefit of pets for all humans. I would assume that is how it has been directed to that group. Norma > kilikini > >Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where > >dogs usually make better pets for men? Of course, there are > >always exceptions. > > What has this got to do with 'anti-semitism'?? I got a better question.... Why do you care? > > >Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where > > >dogs usually make better pets for men? Of course, there are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I got a better question.... Why do you care? He thinks everything should be about him. Susan > Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where > dogs usually make better pets for men? Of course, there are > always exceptions. > > -- > Sheena I don't know, I have both; two domestic shorthaired cats and a very active Australian Shepherd. What does that say about me? kilikini >>Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where >>dogs usually make better pets for men? > I don't know, I have both; two domestic shorthaired cats and a very active > Australian Shepherd. What does that say about me? You're obviously bisexual. Next question? - Logan >>>Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where >>>dogs usually make better pets for men? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >You're obviously bisexual. Next question? What about people with birds? --scott  Signature"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." > >>>Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where > >>>dogs usually make better pets for men? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > -- > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis." Perfect people for cats. RB >>>>Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where >>>>dogs usually make better pets for men? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > What about people with birds? > --scott OOOOHHH, God you're sick!! ;-} _________________ Mitchell Benson OKC Backup www.okcbackup.com > >>>Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where > >>>dogs usually make better pets for men? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > What about people with birds? They shouldn't have cats. Peace, Paul It is with a great deal of regret, after having read many of the posts pertaining to this topic, that I conclude each of you urgently requires professional counselling. You guys have some serious unresolved issues. I am happy to refer interested parties to a qualified veterinary therapist who, incidentally, is quite proficient at bird calls and records himself with the best vocal mic under $500. Uncle Russ WESTLAKE PUBLISHING COMPANY www.finescalerr.com WESTLAKE RECORDS www.westlakerecords.com > >>>Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where > >>>dogs usually make better pets for men? [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > What about people with birds? > --scott I used to have a pet alligator (well, actually a caiman) who ATE a cat--Does that count? bob No but it might get you into one of the xtian death cult clubs, counting as extra *brownie points*. Fool. YS > > >>>Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where > > >>>dogs usually make better pets for men? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > bob In a really odd crossposting involving: rec.pets.cats.misc, rec.audio.pro, soc.culture.jewish, sci.med.nursing, >>>Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where >>>dogs usually make better pets for men? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >You're obviously bisexual. No, it means he/she is a hermaphrodite. >Next question? What microphone would you use for recording this thread? > - Logan ----- http://mindspring.com/~benbradley All of which are Hashem's creations - RESPECTIVELY! YS > In a really odd crossposting involving: > rec.pets.cats.misc, [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > ----- > http://mindspring.com/~benbradley > > Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where > > dogs usually make better pets for men? Of course, there are [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Australian Shepherd. What does that say about me? > kilikini What's an Australian Shepherd? Here in Aus we call Alsatian canines "German Shepherds" but I've never heard of a breed called Australian Shepherd. Barry > > > Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where > > > dogs usually make better pets for men? Of course, there are [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Barry I've heard that Australians call Australian Shepherds Border Collies, but they are two different animals. They're both herding dogs, but Aussie Shepherds are a little bit bigger and have a little bit more mellow temperment. http://www.australianshepherds.org/ This site will give you more info. It's an excellent resource on Aussies. kilikini "Barry" <barryh46au@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news > What's an Australian Shepherd? Here in Aus we call Alsatian canines "German > Shepherds" but I've never heard of a breed called Australian Shepherd. Despite the name an Australian Shepherd in an American breed. They weigh about 45lbs and look somewhat like a BorderCollie. The most popular coat is "merle". They are quite popular here in Brooklyn, NY. Great frisbee dogs and very smart like a Border Collie. For more info http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/breeds_a.cfm I like terriers, Rat Terriers. Paul Gold www.vinylmastering.net brooklynphono "Paul Gold" <plush@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message > Despite the name an Australian Shepherd in an American breed. Actually no. They are of Spanish origin. Judging by "Australian Shepard" book by Joseph Hartnagle, "Australian Shepards were introduced to Australia from the Basque region in the Pyrenees Mountains between Spain and France. For luck of employment(sheep herding) in their own land, the Basque migrated to other countries taking the dogs.They acquired the name as they arrived in the USA with the boatloads of Australian sheep. This took place in early 1900s as the American wool market was rising" " The Prado museum in Madrid, Spain houses paintings that ilustrates these dogs" At that time, sheep hearding was a major economy in Spain and sheep dogs(Australian Shepards) were legaly protected even then. They > weigh about 45lbs and look somewhat like a BorderCollie. Great frisbee dogs and very smart like a Border Collie. For more info > http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/breeds_a.cfm Yeah absolutely, stunningly gorgeous, very intelligent and very active. Lived with one for a while(flatmate's), was totally in love with it, and heartbroken when moved out. I will definitly get one when I have my place. Shame they dock their tails traditionally, please if you get one, find a breeder that doesn;t allow tail docking. Gee You are joking right? Most of the women I meet are dog lovers. I would love to find a woman who loves cats. Also I do not think of my cats as pets. They are family to me. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where > dogs usually make better pets for men? Of course, there are > always exceptions. > > -- > Sheena > You are joking right? Most of the women I meet are dog lovers. I would love > to find a woman who loves cats. Also I do not think of my cats as pets. They > are family to me. A dog would of course consider *you* family. Assuming it stopped to think of course. Graham > > You are joking right? Most of the women I meet are dog lovers. I would love > > to find a woman who loves cats. Also I do not think of my cats as pets. They > > are family to me. > > A dog would of course consider *you* family. Actually a part of the "pack". Yes, just like wolves, dogs are pack animals, and like to live in a hierarchical group which is why they must know their place in home, so they know weather they should lead or relax and follow. Assuming it stopped to think of course. With all due respect, how would you know what dog is thinking about. We humans don;t speak nor understand any animal language. So really, we don;t know what they think or why. Gee First of all, the whole notion of having a *pet* is atrocious at best, nauseating at worst. But then again some things are preferable to those that would call their animal friends a *goddess*, a surrogate child, spouse or worse. Cats are here to teach man/woman/child how to take time out to groom, play, nap, nosh and love. How to strategize hunting sprees, how to climb trees, how to ambush a rival and how to mark your territory. From a cat you will learn what it is to be serene, centered yet alert enough, savvy enough to be ready and able to make a mad-dash for an open door should the need arise. They will give bonus points to the people that really care about them by treating them like a precious creature of Hashem and not a glorified piece of furry furniture. No declawing, no neutering, no spaying - all totally against the Creator's wishes. What is expected from us as the stewards of this planet is be humane, compassionate and caring enough to feed an animal entrusted to us before we eat. Having a cat is no coincidence. It just didn't *happen* by itself. But like all occurances, situations and relationships - Hashem is the masterful joiner of soul to soul, spirit to spirit. We are to care for them and through us, they can and may be elevated spiritually vicariously through placing them in our hearts. They will be making the journey with us to the World to Come as a memory residing within our heart centers. YS > Why is it that cats generally make better pets for women, where > dogs usually make better pets for men? Of course, there are > always exceptions. > > -- > Sheena > Cats are here to teach man/woman/child how to take time out to groom, play, > nap, nosh and love. How to strategize hunting sprees, how to climb trees, > how to ambush a rival and how to mark your territory. How to play with your food and torture it to the most miserable possible end. > From a cat you will learn what it is to be serene, centered yet alert > enough, savvy enough to be ready and able to make a mad-dash for an open > door should the need arise. And to kill slowly and methodically. Bob Signature"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein I agree on no declawing but no spaying or neutering? That is being irresponsible if you ask me. Try using your religious lines in a shelter that is overflowing with animals because either someone failed to spay and neuter their animal or simply dumped them there. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > No declawing, no neutering, no spaying - all totally against the Creator's > wishes. What is expected from us as the stewards of this planet is be > humane, compassionate and caring enough to feed an animal entrusted to us > before we eat. Sorry. Our Torah says NO to mutilations. Specifically castration. If every human being stepped up to the plate and took responsibility as a humane human, doing our part in caring for these animals - fully, lovingly, with dedication - keeping them within bounds, within the framework of Torah - the Blueprint for the Universe, there would be ZERO need to use violence to control and manipulate nature and its laws. It is PRECISELY when these laws are violated that all hell breaks loose with plagues, pestilence and catastrophe. We must begin to do things the Right way, following the laws of the Creator in all facets if life. YS > I agree on no declawing but no spaying or neutering? That is being > irresponsible if you ask me. Try using your religious lines in a shelter [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > humane, compassionate and caring enough to feed an animal entrusted to us > > before we eat. Wait a minute, the Torah says that you can't spay or neuter your pets? Is this true? Also, in what way is spaying or neutering violent? If a human female has a hysterectomy, is that against the Torah or violent? I'm not flaming you or anything, I'm just curious about your views. Another point I want to make is that not every human being *will* step up to the plate. Take my roommate for example. He has a dog and has never taken her to the vet for any shots, heartworm prevention or flea or tick prevention. The man has 4 children that he never sees. He's a waste of a human being. I'm all for working on society, but there are just too many lazy, irresponsible people out in the world to make exceptions. So, most of us have to take it upon ourselves to neuter or spay our pets. I neutered my male dog because my roommate refuses to spay his and we live in a small apartment. Something had to give. When *everyone* follows the *rules* - we'll talk. But that will probably be way after our current lifetime. kilikini > Sorry. Our Torah says NO to mutilations. Specifically castration. > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 > Wait a minute, the Torah says that you can't spay or neuter your pets? Please read: MEANING IN MITZVOT by Rabbi Asher Meir Each week we discuss one familiar halakhic practice and try to show its beauty and meaning. The columns are based on Rabbi Meir's Meaning in Mitzvot on Kitzur Shulchan Arukh. Spaying animals The spaying of animals, in order to prevent undesired reproduction or in order to make them more docile, is an ancient custom of animal husbandry, but it is one which is forbidden by the Torah. The Torah teaches this prohibition in two different places, each one with its message. In the blessing given to Noach and his family after the flood, "Be fruitful and multiply, swarm in the earth and multiply in it" (Bereshit 9:7), our Sages discerned an implication that spaying of animals is improper for all mankind (Sanhedrin 57a). The basis of this admonition is clearly the fact that spaying interferes with HaShem's desire that the world should be filled with a multiplicity of living things. Here the consideration is a quantitative one. However, the Torah also contains a prohibition on spaying for the Jewish people. In enumeration the animals which are blemished and unfit for sacrifices, the Torah tells us (Vayikra 22:24) "And an animal which is maimed or crushed or disconnected or severed [in his reproductive organs] do not offer to HaShem", and then adds "and don't do this in your land", meaning that we should not create such a blemish (Shabbat 110b). Here the emphasis is not on the consequences for the world, but rather the consequences for this particular animal. The blemish in a sacrifice is not due to the fact that the animal will not reproduce, because the animal is being slaughtered anyway. Rather, the admonition not to spay seems to be directed at the loss for the individual. Each individual creature is unique, and its ability to transmit its own unique characteristics to offspring is an essential part of its character and potential. Even if the world will swarm with sheep just as before, this individual ram is deficient if he lacks the potential to perpetuate his special traits in the next generation. This distinction between the general mission of mankind and the particular mission of the Jewish people is found in other places as well. For instance, in our column on Vayikra 5761 we saw the explanation of Rav Nachman of Breslav, that for all mankind ownership and possession has utilitarian value, but for the Jewish people ownership also ideally involves a special sensitivity to the unique role of each object in the chain of Divine providence. All of mankind is charged with perfecting the world, both materially and spiritually. But the mission of mankind as a whole is more instrumental, focusing on principles which create a better world. It is the Jewish people who are particularly commanded to find the holiness and potential in each individual aspect of creation, "so that none of them may be rejected" from the realm of holiness. (See Shmuel II 14:14.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Rabbi Meir has completed writing a monumental companion to Kitzur Shulchan Aruch which beautifully presents the meanings in our mitzvot and halacha. It will hopefully be published in the near future. Rabbi Meir authors a popular weekly on-line Q&A column, "The Jewish Ethicist", which gives Jewish guidance on everyday ethical dilemmas in the workplace. The column is a joint project of the JCT Center for Business Ethics, Jerusalem College of Technology - Machon Lev; and Aish HaTorah. You can see the Jewish Ethicist, and submit your own questions, at www.jewishethicist.com or at www.aish.com. > > Wait a minute, the Torah says that you can't spay or neuter your pets? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Spaying animals (snip) > All of mankind is charged with perfecting the world, both materially and > spiritually. But the mission of mankind as a whole is more instrumental, > focusing on principles which create a better world. It is the Jewish people > who are particularly commanded to find the holiness and potential in each > individual aspect of creation, "so that none of them may be rejected" from > the realm of holiness. (See Shmuel II 14:14.) So, in other words, if you spay or neuter your pet the pet would be rejected by God and would not make it into heaven? Am I understanding the belief correctly? kilikini > So, in other words, if you spay or neuter your pet the pet would be rejected > by God and would not make it into heaven? Am I understanding the belief > correctly? > kilikini ---------- Not exactly. Without getting into detail, we have 613 commandments. The commandment regarding not spaying/neutering is just one of them. We are judged on the big picture, the good is weighed against the bad. We are not judged on just one thing. That having been said, religious Jews easily avoid transgressing this commandment by adopting animals that have already been spayed or neutered. That way, we are not adding to the animal overpopulation problem, we are not transgressing a commandment, and we are hopefully providing a nice home for an animal who needs one. Best regards, ---Cindy S. > > So, in other words, if you spay or neuter your pet the pet would be > rejected [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. I like your answer, Cindy. Thanks. kili I do not judge others myself. BTW, I myself am Jewish and when I adopted my cat Isis it was a requirement to have her spayed. I was all for it. I am still for spaying/neutering. I do not see it as mutilation. I see at as a necessity to prevent overpopulation. I think the OP needs to volunteer at a shelter around kitten season when cats are dumped off at record numbers. Some them even have kittens. Spaying/neutering is the responsible thing. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > Not exactly. Without getting into detail, we have 613 commandments. The > commandment regarding not spaying/neutering is just one of them. We are [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. > I do not judge others myself. BTW, I myself am Jewish and when I adopted my > cat Isis it was a requirement to have her spayed. I was all for it. I am > still for spaying/neutering. I do not see it as mutilation. The torah is not open to individual interpretation, and the fact remains that for a Jew to spay or neuter is a torah transgression. The mitzvos do not apply to non-Jews, and therefore the torah would not find it problematic for a non-Jew to spay or neuter. >I see at as a > necessity to prevent overpopulation. There is a way around it, as I outlined. 1. Jews should limit themselves to animals which are already spayed or neutered. In many cases, this means adopting an older animal rather than a kitten, which is in and of itself a wonderful thing to do, since older animals are harder to place in homes. 2. Not adopt animals at all. And for the record, most observant Jews tend to not have pets at all. >I think the OP needs to volunteer at a > shelter around kitten season when cats are dumped off at record numbers. This would not change the fact that Jews are prohibited by the torah from spaying and neutering animals. > Some them even have kittens. Spaying/neutering is the responsible thing. I am a former volunteer for an animal rescue organization. I have had a number of *foster* cats in my home, one of whom was a pregnant cat that someone had dumped off at a shelter. I fostered her through the remainder of her pregnancy and the birth of her 4 kittens. They stayed with me until the kittens were weaned. I still have the mother (she was spayed under the auspices of the rescue agency before I took permanent possession of her). I know firsthand about the problems of dog and cat overpopulation. The number of animals being killed in shelters every year is a travesty. But no one here is arguing that animals should not be spayed or neutered, only that it is a torah transgression for Jews can't do so. So, therefore, Jews should adopt older animals that have already been spayed or neutered or not adopt at all. Best regards, ---Cindy S. > > Not exactly. Without getting into detail, we have 613 commandments. The > > commandment regarding not spaying/neutering is just one of them. We are [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Best regards, > > ---Cindy S. I think the torah is very much open to individual interpretation. Last time I checked we're all apart of humanity. I don't believe in limits. Why should I be bound by the rules of the torah? This is 2004. Not the days of Moses. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > The torah is not open to individual interpretation, and the fact remains > that for a Jew to spay or neuter is a torah transgression. The mitzvos do [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > > Best regards, > > > ---Cindy S. > I think the torah is very much open to individual interpretation. You're entitled to your opinion, but traditional Jews don't see it that way. >Last time > I checked we're all apart of humanity. I don't believe in limits. Why should > I be bound by the rules of the torah? You're entitled to your opinion, but traditional Jews don't see it this way. Best regards, ---Cindy S. This is 2004. Not the days of Moses. On who's rule do you say that? Also, who is to say what is tradition? These things after all were written by man so I'd hardly call the torah law. Also, what do you consider traditional Jews? Those who are reform are certainly not going to let the Jewish laws limit them. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > > > I think the torah is very much open to individual interpretation. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > This is 2004. Not the days of Moses. > > I do not judge others myself. BTW, I myself am Jewish and when I adopted > my [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > not apply to non-Jews, and therefore the torah would not find it problematic > for a non-Jew to spay or neuter. In other words, the equvalent of a "Shabbos goy"? (For those not familiar with the term, a "Shabbos goy" was a Gentile employed by observant Jews to mind the store or run the factory on the sabbath, when Jews are not permitted to work.) Peace, Paul > > > I do not judge others myself. BTW, I myself am Jewish and when I adopted > > my [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > mind the store or run the factory on the sabbath, when Jews are not > permitted to work.) ---------- Not at all. The fact is that all Jews are obligated to observe shabbos, but no one is obligated to adopt an animal. Best regards, ---Cindy S. That is not a fact. I certainly don't observe Shabbot. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > Not at all. The fact is that all Jews are obligated to observe shabbos, but > no one is obligated to adopt an animal. > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. > > > The torah is not open to individual interpretation, and the fact remains > > > that for a Jew to spay or neuter is a torah transgression. The mitzvos [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Not at all. The fact is that all Jews are obligated to observe shabbos, but > no one is obligated to adopt an animal. True but irrelevant; no Jew is required to keep the store or factory open on Shabbos either. If an owner chooses to do so, s/he employs a Shabbos goy. Likewise, if s/he adopts a pet, it's one that a Gentile has already neutered. Peace, Paul Does the Torah say anything about anesthetics? Religion, like software seems to need constant updates! Tom > > I do not judge others myself. BTW, I myself am Jewish and when I adopted > my [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > > Best regards, > > > ---Cindy S. I agree on this one. A perfect example is Passover. My mom made it a little bit more fun than reading the books time after time. Also, she added a metaphysical twist which made it go down a lot easier. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > Does the Torah say anything about anesthetics? > Religion, like software seems to need constant updates! > > > Wait a minute, the Torah says that you can't spay or neuter your pets? > > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > So, in other words, if you spay or neuter your pet the pet would be rejected > by God and would not make it into heaven? If one neutered or spayed an animal without KNOWING beforehand that this was considered a sin, then there perhaps will be special lenience. In regards to animals being elevated spiritually in the evolution of their spirit to soul or not, it has much to do with the care bestowed on the animal by the human and how the commandments were adhered to at all given times and how much loving intention was conveyed at the time (kavannah). It is my personal belief - though I am sure some one somewhere can find a text to support it that the heart connection made with the dog or cat in one's care, where the love that is given and received in the heart-center, that energy is then uplifted - as a memory of the animal and this then may enter the realms of heaven. Blessings, Yechidah Am I understanding the belief > correctly? > kilikini > > > > Wait a minute, the Torah says that you can't spay or neuter your pets? (snip) > If one neutered or spayed an animal without KNOWING beforehand that this was > considered a sin, then there perhaps will be special lenience. In regards to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Blessings, > Yechidah I thought that all animals were pure by nature. How can an animal get *better* in the eyes of the spirit world, because their owner loves them? I don't understand. kilikini I have a belief in the metaphysical despite being Jewish. I believe cats have souls and spend much time on the astral plane. I am sure this ys person will probably say Jews are not allowed to be metaphysical and that is a sin to believe cats have souls. Good thing I was born Reform because many of us don't follow the rules of Jewish law. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > I thought that all animals were pure by nature. How can an animal get > *better* in the eyes of the spirit world, because their owner loves them? I > don't understand. > kilikini Have you ever heard of the Kabbalah? Tom > I have a belief in the metaphysical despite being Jewish. I believe cats > have souls and spend much time on the astral plane. I am sure this ys person [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > don't understand. > > kilikini Yes, I have but I do not follow it. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > Have you ever heard of the Kabbalah? > Tom > > > > > Wait a minute, the Torah says that you can't spay or neuter your > pets? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > I thought that all animals were pure by nature. How can an animal get > *better* in the eyes of the spirit world, because their owner loves them? What is purity? YS Ivory Snow? Tom > > > > > > Wait a minute, the Torah says that you can't spay or neuter your > > pets? [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 > So, in other words, if you spay or neuter your pet the pet would be rejected > by God and would not make it into heaven? Am I understanding the belief > correctly? > kilikini ----------- I'm sorry. I didn't read your post carefully the first time. I thought you were asking if *the person* who spays or neuters his pet is going to be rejected by God. I didn't realize you were asking about *the pet.* In Judaism, animals are most definitely not the equivalent of humans. Jewish belief is that after death, Jews are judged according to the way we conducted our lives, if we kept the commandments, if we sinned, etc. Animals obviously are not obligated to keep commandments and are incapable of sinning. I have never heard of any Jewish beliefs that animal souls go anywhere after death at all, but if there are Jewish beliefs concerning this (that I somehow managed to miss), I can guarantee that the animals would not be judged by human standards and would not end up in the same place as human souls. I hope your question was intended to be tongue-in-cheek. Best regards, ---Cindy S. > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. Actually, I was serious. I'm not Jewish and am very interested in other faiths. My question was intentional. YS made it sound as if the animal *itself* would be punished if it were to be neutered or spayed. I'm just trying to understand. Really! kilikini > > > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > *itself* would be punished if it were to be neutered or spayed. I'm just > trying to understand. Really! ---------- Oh! No, the animal would not be punished. In Judaism, God only judges people. Best regards, ---Cindy S. > > Actually, I was serious. I'm not Jewish and am very interested in other > > faiths. My question was intentional. YS made it sound as if the animal [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Oh! No, the animal would not be punished. In Judaism, God only judges > people. On the other hand, I read in Leviticus that in the case of the abomination of sexual relations between a human and an animal, the human is condemned to death, and so is the animal. I understand that this isn't God judging the animal and condemning it, but nonetheless it always struck me as unfair to a creature who is not capable of understanding the law. Peace, Paul > > > Actually, I was serious. I'm not Jewish and am very interested in other > > > faiths. My question was intentional. YS made it sound as if the animal [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > animal and condemning it, but nonetheless it always struck me as unfair to a > creature who is not capable of understanding the law. ---------- An animal that has killed someone is also put to death. In both cases, the torah commandment is for humans to kill the animal. This is quite different from the animals' being the recipient of post-death divine retribution from God, which I believe was the other poster's question. Best regards, ---Cindy S. Most Jews I am sure spay and neuter their animals. I bet the OP probably feels a lot of us who do the responsible thing will also not get a ticket into heaven. I am also willing to bet that he/she would not be quoting the torah if their own life was at risk and they needed an operation. Yes, that's right you may need to cut your flesh to save your own life. I suppose you'd let yourself or someone else die in order to stick to the belief of no cutting the flesh? SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > So, in other words, if you spay or neuter your pet the pet would be rejected > by God and would not make it into heaven? Am I understanding the belief > correctly? > kilikini Forget the torah. Spaying and neutering your animals is the correct action. I would love to see you go down to a shelter and tell them what they are doing is wrong. It is people like you that are making the rescue of our feline friends difficult by making an excuse not to do the responsible thing. I suppose you are also going to say the torah says we should not punish those who simply dump their feline friends in the street to fend for themselves? BTW, spaying/neutering is the right thing to do. You can use all the scipts, sayings or anything from the torah that you want but that doesn't mean they are correct. I suggest you get with the times. This is 2004 after all. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com "ys" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:jL24c.33678 > Please read: > [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 I think basing your life around a book,and some of it's outdated rules, that are 5000 years old is a little strange. Remeber when Galileo said the earth was not the center of the universe? I'll say it again: God's biggest joke on Man is Sex, Man's biggest joke on God is Religion. Tom > > Wait a minute, the Torah says that you can't spay or neuter your pets? > [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 Well I don't base my life around the torah. Being Jewish is cool but I am also a human being and thus must make my own choices in life. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > I think basing your life around a book,and some of it's outdated rules, that > are 5000 years old is a little strange. [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 > I think basing your life around a book Thanks for your thoughts, though maybe not all thoughts should be made public domain. YS > > > Wait a minute, the Torah says that you can't spay or neuter your pets? > > [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 > > I think basing your life around a book > > Thanks for your thoughts, though maybe not all thoughts should be made > public domain. Especially on Jewish newsgroups??? HOw on earth did this bit of crossposting get started anyway? Norma > YS > [quoted text clipped - 99 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 > > > I think basing your life around a book > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Especially on Jewish newsgroups??? HOw on earth did this bit of > crossposting get started anyway? Norma Norma, that was *my* original question to. The OP started this thread about women and cats in soc.culture.jewish., sci.med.nursing. and rec.audio.pro. Why was it cross-posted like that? Anyway, I'm glad it was. I had no idea that the jewish faith was technically against spaying or neutering. I found this topic sort of interesting. Sorry for perpetuating the thread by replying, but I find the views that have been posted very curious. kilikini > > > > I think basing your life around a book > > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > kilikini It's fine, I just didn't know how it got here. Norma It seems only certain Jews are against it and are using the torah to justify why they shouldn't do the humane and responsible thing. I guess some people will think of anything in order to justify their irresponsiblity. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > Norma, that was *my* original question to. The OP started this thread about > women and cats in soc.culture.jewish., sci.med.nursing. and rec.audio.pro. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > kilikini The torah doesn't say it. I think this person is just trying to make excuses for their thoughtlessness. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > Wait a minute, the Torah says that you can't spay or neuter your pets? Is > this true? Also, in what way is spaying or neutering violent? If a human [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 >Sorry. Our Torah says NO to mutilations. Specifically castration. Can I clip their little kitty foreskins? > We must begin to do things the Right way, following the laws of the Creator > in all facets if life. Then we must also avoid women during their menstrual cycles as they are deemed "unclean." Do you follow this law too? > > We must begin to do things the Right way, following the laws of the Creator > > in all facets if life. > > Then we must also avoid women during their menstrual cycles as they are > deemed "unclean." Do you follow this law too? How does this relate to cats exactly? Seems more like a trolling question to me. Norma > > > We must begin to do things the Right way, following the laws of the > Creator [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Seems more like a trolling question to me. Norma In more detail than is warranted for a Thursday afternoon: 1. The astute reader will note that the thread subject line includes both women AND cats and indeed how the thread discussions have touched on the nature of both creatures. 2. The astute reader will have already gleaned from YS's postings that he/she places great importance on Toraic Law - insofar as he/she understands it - as it relates not just to cats and animals in general but all of life. Toraic Law dictates that women are to be avoided, indeed shunned, during their cycles as they are "unclean" by the author's of the aforementioned Law. 3. My post was an attempt to ascertain whether or not YS was indeed consistent in his/her approach to Toraic Law and its application to daily human activities, which include both women AND cats in this context. As is often the case with such things, the "faithful" (be they Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc.) are highly selective about which parts of the Law they choose to abide by or hold sacred. 4. Finally, the astute reader would have put elements 1, 2 and 3 together BEFORE assuming a trolling stance on my part. Such an assumption is, in fact, erroneous. Good day. Correction - women who have their periods are NOT shunned. YS > > > > We must begin to do things the Right way, following the laws of the > > Creator [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Good day. And this has to do with cats how? SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > Correction - women who have their periods are NOT shunned. > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 > > > > We must begin to do things the Right way, following the laws of the > > Creator [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > indeed shunned, during their cycles as they are "unclean" by the > author's of the aforementioned Law. Hey! Listen, you, as the non-astute writer, are totally wrong about this. So who is doing what? Norma > 3. My post was an attempt to ascertain whether or not YS was indeed > consistent in his/her approach to Toraic Law and its application to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Good day. > > 2. The astute reader will have already gleaned from YS's postings that > > he/she places great importance on Toraic Law - insofar as he/she [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Hey! Listen, you, as the non-astute writer, are totally wrong about this. > So who is doing what? Norma It's really quite simple. You asked, I replied. If you're not prepared for answers that may run contrary to your belief or opinion, you'll likely find a better use for your time in some other pursuit. Good day. OK, time for TorahUpdate 2004. Download it now! Wouldn't it be great if everyone had full time connection to his/her higher power so there wouldn't be any need for Religion. When Jesus said "Be Like Me" &" "The Kingdom of God is here at hand", I think that's what he ment. If one comes from Love, one always does "the right thing" Tom > > > 2. The astute reader will have already gleaned from YS's postings that > > > he/she places great importance on Toraic Law - insofar as he/she [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Good day. > one comes from Love, one always does "the right thing" The right thing is what the Creator wants. Not what man or woman wants. Not what makes you necessarily feel good, but what is commanded of us. It is Right because Hashem wants it to be done. Technically, Love is all inclusive of 10 different light energies which stream from the Creator. How to receive it, maintain it and generate it - is precisely what the Torah is here to teach us. Torah is the blueprint for all of creation and the manuscript for life for all humanity. It teaches us to distinguish between right and wrong and how to live according to the laws set out for us by the Creator. 613 for the Jews, 7 spiritual laws for non-Jews. One can't guess at what love is and certainly the brand of *love* exhibited by idol worshippers in the name of *brotherhood*, *peace* and *love* are blasphemous to the Creator. So? Live and learn. Sooner or later the world will *get it*. You can't go against the Creator for this is going against nature which spells only death, loving Hashem's laws is choosing life. "I set before you this day a blessing and a curse." Deuteronomy 11.26 YS > > > > 2. The astute reader will have already gleaned from YS's postings that > > > > he/she places great importance on Toraic Law - insofar as he/she [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > > > Good day. The Creator is within and without. If one has a conscious contact with the Creator, then is not everything one does inspired by that connection? Maintaining it, is the hard part. Tom > > one comes from Love, one always does "the right thing" > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 > The Creator is within and without. > If one has a conscious contact with the Creator, then is not everything one > does inspired by that connection? But of course. > Maintaining it, is the hard part. Not really, it just takes practice and can start small, once a day, then twice a day then a little more frequently and pretty soon it becomes the ground for the whole gestalt of life. Muhammad's wisdom was in evidence in making regularaly scheduled daily prayer one of the pillars of Islam. If he only had spent a bit more time considering the falibility and social evolution of man and a bit less on the perfection of Al Lah and himself as the messenger he might have had the wisdom to establish something after himself on a more practical level that could have avoided the splits and bloodshed that soon fouled it and persist to this day. Bob Signature"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein > Muhammad's wisdom was in evidence in making regularaly > scheduled daily prayer one of the pillars of Islam. If he [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Bob First of all, you are assuming what you read today as his words are accurate. A preeeetty big assumption from my pov. Second, he was speaking to those of his day. He coulda given two f.cks about people who've yet existed. And as far as building a better sand castle for "something after himself", I would think that he'd also not have given two f.cks about that either. David Correia Celebration Sound Warren, Rhode Island CelebrationSound@aol.com www.CelebrationSound.com >>Muhammad's wisdom was in evidence in making regularaly >>scheduled daily prayer one of the pillars of Islam. If he [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > First of all, you are assuming what you read today as his words are > accurate. A preeeetty big assumption from my pov. True enough and the history of the Quaran is certainly open to debate. I've read some interesting points of view that claim it to be no better authenticated or replicated than the Christian writings and coopted for later goals just as ruthlessly. Not, unfortunately, from Islamic scholars. > Second, he was speaking to those of his day. He coulda given two f.cks > about people who've yet existed. And as far as building a better sand > castle for "something after himself", I would think that he'd also not > have given two f.cks about that either. That was sorta my point. How could a guy that thought he was so plugged in have failed to look ahead in such important ways. That just doesn't compute. Contrary to your second statement, are you suggesting in the first one that perhaps he did and it didn't make it through the ensuing fight for succession? That's all together possible. Bob Signature"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein > The Creator is within and without. What does this mean? How does it actually translate into everyday living? > If one has a conscious contact with the Creator, then is not everything one > does inspired by that connection? What is consciousness? > Maintaining it, is the hard part. So said the iMac repairman. YS > > > one comes from Love, one always does "the right thing" > > [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 You sound like one of those religious nuts who show up at your door with bible in hand. I wish you would end this cross posting and leave the cat group alone. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com "ys" <TheHealingShelf@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:k1K5c.43440 > The right thing is what the Creator wants. Not what man or woman wants. Not > what makes you necessarily feel good, but what is commanded of us. It is [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 >You sound like one of those religious nuts who show up at your door with >bible in hand. I wish you would end this cross posting and leave the cat >group alone. Says the moron as he crossposts........ > > one comes from Love, one always does "the right thing" > > The right thing is what the Creator wants. Not what man or woman wants. Not > what makes you necessarily feel good, but what is commanded of us. The problem being that there is disagreement - often violent disagreement - about "what the Creator wants." And whose version of the Creator is to hold sway? Witness the myriad splinter sects within every major world religion. Which one follows the "true" Creator? And within that subset, which one has the "true" understanding of what the Creator wants? > > > one comes from Love, one always does "the right thing" > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The problem being that there is disagreement - often violent > disagreement - about "what the Creator wants." Because of division of the Torah into sub-parts which no longer resemble the Original. And whose version of the > Creator is to hold sway? The word of God as given to Moses. > Witness the myriad splinter sects within every major world religion. > Which one follows the "true" Creator? And within that subset, which one > has the "true" understanding of what the Creator wants? Chabad. YS Stop cross-posting already! This stuff does not neet to be in a newsgroup for cats. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > > > > > one comes from Love, one always does "the right thing" [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.600 / Virus Database: 381 - Release Date: 2/28/04 > OK, time for TorahUpdate 2004. Download it now! > Wouldn't it be great if everyone had full time connection to his/her higher > power so there wouldn't be any need for Religion. When Jesus said "Be Like > Me" &" "The Kingdom of God is here at hand", I think that's what he ment. If > one comes from Love, one always does "the right thing" The gnostic interpretation that you refer to was a major movement in early Christianity and there is reason to believe that even Christianity's creator, Paul, was gnostic. Whoever wrote the gospel attributed to Thomas certainly was and it bears reading. The Roman church nearly succeeded in stamping out all evidence that the gnostic movement and its writings ever existed. Bob Signature"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein Whom or what do you consider the higher power? SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > OK, time for TorahUpdate 2004. Download it now! > Wouldn't it be great if everyone had full time connection to his/her higher [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > > > Good day. > Whom or what do you consider the higher power? Yes. Bob Signature"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no simpler." A. Einstein I always say: "There's a universal DOG and we all have a little piece. Then again I'm dyslexic." Tom > Whom or what do you consider the higher power? > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > > > > > Good day. > > We must begin to do things the Right way, following the laws of the Creator > > in all facets if life. > > Then we must also avoid women during their menstrual cycles as they are > deemed "unclean." Do you follow this law too? A holy woman of Judah, a daughter of Zion follows these laws. BUT of course! This is our heritage, our safekeeping, our life! In perfect harmony with Nature! What a question! Blessings, Yechidah > > > We must begin to do things the Right way, following the laws of the > Creator [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > This is our heritage, our safekeeping, our life! In perfect harmony with > Nature! What a question! ---------- But I'm sure you would agree that the law is not related to hygiene. Best regards, ---Cindy S. > > > > We must begin to do things the Right way, following the laws of the > > Creator [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Best regards, > ---Cindy S. Not hygiene! We are holy, fragile with a need to go within. This is our right and duty - to be set apart to regroup, regenerate and regain strength. As far as I am concerned it is ~the~ key to a happy, holy relationship between a man and a woman. What is hidden may only become revealed at its proper time. No forcing, no hastening - no short cuts - just pure allowance for the natural cycle of human nature to run its course. YS > > We must begin to do things the Right way, following the laws of the Creator > > in all facets if life. > > Then we must also avoid women during their menstrual cycles as they are > deemed "unclean." Do you follow this law too? ----------- "Niddah" is not related to cleanliness. It describes a spiritual state. And yes, O Jews follow the laws of taharas hamishpacha (family purity). Best regards, ---Cindy S. Plenty of men try to do this. I know I make myself scarce during this cycle so I do not incur the wrath of the woman. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your Computer Needs! www.members.cox.net/catprotector/panthertek Cat Galaxy: All Cats, All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com > Then we must also avoid women during their menstrual cycles as they are > deemed "unclean." Do you follow this law too? Yeah right. Spaying and neutering is not mutilation. It is being a responsible human and not adding to the overpopulation problem. I don't care what religion you are there is no excuse for being irresponsible. SignaturePanther TEK: Staying On Top Of All Your |
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