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Cat Forum / General Topics / May 2005Help! Need suggestions---how to train cats not to claw or scratch carpets, drapes, wallpaper, ...anything that doesn't move
I posted a similar question on this bulletin board about two months after we adopted two cats and got no response, so I'm trying again. Mainly, I'm asking for any information or suggestions to help me train our cats to scratch and claw only their scratch posts before they are no longer trainable. We adopted our cats from a rescue group about six months ago. I do not recall if we signed an agreement to never have them declawed, but we were given a lot of information against this. We believed we could adopt the two cats on that basis. Since adopting our cats they find, paw at, and ultimately destroy small objects (e.g., kids' toys, expensive camera lens), and it's becoming blatantly obvious that unless we can find a way to train them to stop they will destroy our carpeting, drapes, wallpaper--the list goes on. This matters a lot as we recently completed major remodeling and upgrading to our house at great expense and it is extremely frustrating to see all that hard work slowly going down the tube. We have two scratch posts that the cats use, but this doesn't seem to be enough. Our house is fairly large (but not huge), so maybe two scratch posts aren't enough. I'd prefer not to have them declawed but it's getting so bad that I feel our choice is to either give them back to the rescue group (thereby increasing the homeless cat population by two) or have them declawed. We love our cats and would hate to give them up, which makes the latter choice seem like our only alternative. I've read with great interest the 7/5/03 post from Homer (you CAN declaw with Love) and responses to it. Gotta hand it to ya, Homer--way to hang in there. Still, I'd prefer to not declaw our cats as the thought of it is very discomforting to me. Tough decision. I understand the vehemence many readers will have at the mere suggestion that I am considering have our cats declawed. Please--unless you have constructive, helpful information about training cats, I'm fully informed about what a cat goes through when declawed and ask that you abstain from filling my response string with hate messages or irrelevant questions like "why didn't you buy a goldfish?" Suffice it to say that we wanted a cat, ended up with two, that we love them both but are faced with a problem of nightmare proportions, the result of scratching and clawing that we were NOT informed of when we adopted our cats. In a 7/3/03 response to a post (same date) by Karen Chuplis (Re: Soft Paws), Karen M. refers to something called "Smart Paws." If anyone has more information or a web link about this please respond. Thanks to all who take my post to heart and offer help. > I posted a similar question on this bulletin board about two months after we > adopted two cats and got no response, so I'm trying again. Mainly, I'm > asking for any information or suggestions to help me train our cats to > scratch and claw only their scratch posts before they are no longer > trainable. Ah, there is no such thing as no longer trainable. If it's an animal that can think, then it can be trained. Even animals that can't think too well can be trained. Look at male humans. :P There is also a TON of info out there on how to train a cat not to scratch, so it can be a lot to sort through. > We have two scratch posts that the cats use, but this doesn't seem to be > enough. Our house is fairly large (but not huge), so maybe two scratch posts > aren't enough. I have a scratch post or pad in EVERY room and 3 clawed cats that don't hurt a thing. A vertical pad/post and a horizontal pad is available in each location. The very best thing I can recommend to you is to read a good book on training and conditioning, such as Karen Pryor's "Don't Shoot The Dog", which covers how to train any living being, including people. It covers reinforcement, punishment, and all the other stuff you need to know to train an animal effectively. Training is about making the cat CHOOSE to scratch appropriate things by making it pleasant for them do do so and unpleasant for them to not do so. I praise the cats, use catnip and toys, and play with them by their scratch things. I use a loud NO, a clap, or a squirt of water to discourage scratching of innappropriate things, then take them to the appropriate location and praise so they know what they SHOULD do. Behavior must be redirected or substituted. Also, clipping the nails (and/or using SoftPaws) can really minimize any damage the cat does during training. Cover items they really like to scratch with adhesive you can find at pet stores to make them not like the surface. http://www.softpaws.com/ http://www.softpaws.com/article.html (how to clip nails) Training articles: http://www.perfectpaws.com/scratch.html http://www.pawschicago.org/PetCare/catscratching.htm Training helper items: http://cats.about.com/cs/behavior2/gr/scccat.htm (so you don't have to be there) http://www.petsmart.com/cat/shopping/repellants/psearch.shtml (repellants and training aids) HTH ---------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace Kill one man and you are a murderer. Kill millions and you are a conqueror. Kill everyone and you are God. ---------------------------------------- A few suggestions: -try different types of scratching things -- my cat LOVES those giant catnip laced cardboard scratchers that you can pick up at Walmart or the petstores. Lays flat on the floor and he just attacks it and nothing else really. But there are so many different kinds - sisal (sp?), carpeted, etc., (rub catnip on whatever you want to attract them to) -- if they are attacking furniture try getting some slipcovers for them (maybe not as attractive as the furniture but they may stop clawing if the material changes). Shorten the drapes so they cannot reach them and keep stuff they destroy out of sight. Teach the kids if they value their things then to put them away - or else - >^..^< -www.softpaws.com - I think is the site. -do you clip your cats claws? -squirty water bottle or squirt gun spray kitty when kitty scratches in a bad spot - if you can isolate them to a 'cat proof' (ha ha, i know) room when you're not home that might help My Max doesn't scratch anything except those cardboard things now that I have them. Before that it was the couch and other furniture too. Good luck! LeeAnne > I posted a similar question on this bulletin board about two months after we > adopted two cats and got no response, so I'm trying again. Mainly, I'm > asking for any information or suggestions to help me train our cats to > scratch and claw only their scratch posts before they are no longer > trainable. ...major snippage... > I posted a similar question on this bulletin board about two months after we > adopted two cats and got no response, so I'm trying again. Mainly, I'm > asking for any information or suggestions to help me train our cats to > scratch and claw only their scratch posts before they are no longer > trainable. They are never untrainable. The easy solution is to build a cat tree and put their dry food near the top. If they need help finding it, well, you put them up there and show it to them. They will climb for food. It is a constant reminder that the post(s) are great for scratching. End of problem (at least in my experience). Try reading this group for a while. Good luck. Out. As unpopular as my solution was, here's my experience with declawing: -I did feel bad for them when they were declawed since they were in obvious pain for a couple of days. BUT, they did get over just fine and they're normal and happy like they were before the declaw. No problems with litter aversion or biting. AND it was no different than the pain they experienced when they were spayed. -I should've left there back claws 'cause they use those to scratch themselves and I'm sure it's pretty darn uncomfortable not being able to dig in deep to an itch and the front paws are the one that do the most damage to furniture anyway. -The reason I did the back claws 'cause I'm pretty committed to keeping them indoors all the time so the argument that they needed them for defense wasn't needed in my case - 'cause they never get outside. I declawed the back 'cause I read other posts where the back paws were getting destructive and they were clawing people with 'em. -I'd recommend you try soft paws first - those glue-on nail caps. If you do decide to go the declaw route, make sure you do it while they're still kittens because they recover much faster. Less than one year old. Ideally 3-5 months old. -If you have a big expense account and decide to do declaw, try to go the laser surgery route which is more expensive but somewhat cleaner and less painful. When I was checking around it was $300 for front paws with laser and $150 - $70 for the old guillotine method. -I still have no regrets on declawing them, I'd do it again because there weren't any complications in my case. After declawing them, they are so wonderful now never damaging any furniture and so easy to play with, never getting scratched up when they need a bath ... However, to appease all the cat nazis out there -- these are the last cats I'll own so I won't be declawing anymore cats for the rest of my life nor help solve the overpopulation problem by adopting anymore. Homer > -I did feel bad for them when they were declawed since they were in > obvious pain for a couple of days. > BUT, they did get over just fine and they're normal and happy like > they were before the declaw. Just like a human being would be normal and happy after getting over the pain of having his (or her) fingers removed. > -The reason I did the back claws 'cause I'm pretty committed to > keeping them indoors all the time so the argument that they needed > them for defense wasn't needed in my case - 'cause they never get > outside. I declawed the back 'cause I read other posts where the back > paws were getting destructive and they were clawing people with 'em. He mutilated some kittens allegedly because he read "other posts" which said it was a good idea. He ignored the contrary posts written by "cat nazis." In other words, he mutilated some kittens because he needed cute little harmless playthings. Apparently, the "cat nazis" are people who actually know something about cats. > -I'd recommend you try soft paws first - those glue-on nail caps. The author seems to think that the only possible correction is to physically alter the cat. I guess such shallow minds are why laws are necessary. > If you do decide to go the declaw route, make sure you do it while > they're still kittens > -I still have no regrets on declawing them, Ignorance is bliss. > I'd do it again And if it is illegal then come here and talk about it so I can have the pleasure of turning you in. > After declawing them, they are so wonderful now never damaging any > furniture and so easy to play with, never getting scratched up when > they need a bath ... And your playthings can no longer properly exercise. They can never grip or climb anything again. They can no longer defend themselves. Your playthings will be dead meat if they ever get outside or if a dog gets inside. If your helpless playthings escape you or for whatever other reason end up outside, they will be either killed or beaten up and perpetually chased away from food sources until they die. > However, to appease all the cat nazis out there -- Do whatever you want to do. It's your life. This group is for discussion. You're not interested in discussion, apparently you never were. Everyone who disagrees with you is in your opinion a Nazi. (By the way, Usenet knows that argument as a loser. When you are a loser, you call your opposition Nazis.) You have made up your mind, committed the dirty deed, and now your duty is to persuade others to take your wayward course seemingly to somehow lessen your guilt. If you are not a troll, you sure do a good imitation. > these are the last cats I'll own so I won't be declawing anymore cats > for the rest of my life nor help solve the overpopulation problem by > adopting anymore. If you were really interested in helping solve the overpopulation problem and did not just fancy the idea of owning cute little playthings, you might have considered adopting de-clawed adult cats. I guess you are hinting at being elderly. Why do you require kittens? Why not help animals which are more likely to be destroyed? I suppose you do not want dogs because they are more difficult to take care of. And now you need someone to talk to about your cute little playthings. I wouldn't expect much camaraderie here, at least not while your only objective is to promote de-clawing, seek forgiveness, play the troll, and/or whatever it is you are trying to accomplish. Out. > Homer > > Path: newsdbm01!newsdbm01.news.prodigy.com!newscon07.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.n ews.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed .stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail > From: homer_simpson451@hotmail.com (Homer) > Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.misc [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Message-ID: <f5efe25a.0307071705.3adf92b@posting.google.com> > References: <f5efe25a.0307062329.74483138@posting.google.com> <20030707065716.25898.00000142@mb-m21.aol.com> > NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.169.233.138 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > X-Trace: posting.google.com 1057626357 13273 127.0.0.1 (8 Jul 2003 01:05:57 GMT) > X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com > NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Jul 2003 01:05:57 GMT > Xref: newsmst01.news.prodigy.com rec.pets.cats.misc:78175 > Just like a human being would be normal and happy after getting over the > pain of having his (or her) fingers removed. And just like a human being would be normal after getting over the pain of having his balls removed or her ovaries cut out. > He mutilated some kittens allegedly because he read "other posts" which > said it was a good idea. He ignored the contrary posts written by "cat > nazis." In other words, he mutilated some kittens because he needed cute > little harmless playthings. I'm sure glad I ignored people with opinions like yourself otherwise I'd be stuck with some razor sharp playthings. > The author seems to think that the only possible correction is to > physically alter the cat. I guess such shallow minds are why laws are > necessary. I believe you are the one with the shallow mind to think you can get into the business of others by forcing your *morals* upon others and making asinine laws. Next thing you'll do is outlaw criticising the president. > And if it is illegal then come here and talk about it so I can have the > pleasure of turning you in. It's only illegal in West Hollywood as far as I know and I'm glad I don't live there. > And your playthings can no longer properly exercise. They can never grip > or climb anything again. They can no longer defend themselves. Your > playthings will be dead meat if they ever get outside or if a dog gets > inside. If your helpless playthings escape you or for whatever other > reason end up outside, they will be either killed or beaten up and > perpetually chased away from food sources until they die. That's 'cause I'm a responsible owner and make sure they have a full and happy life inside the house. I'm not careless enough that they ever accidently escape. > Do whatever you want to do. It's your life. > This group is for discussion. You're not interested in discussion, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > take your wayward course seemingly to somehow lessen your guilt. > If you are not a troll, you sure do a good imitation. Whatever dude, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm to mine. Obviously anyone who has a differing opinion than yourself is not participating in a *discussion* and only being a *troll* > If you were really interested in helping solve the overpopulation problem > and did not just fancy the idea of owning cute little playthings, you might [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > forgiveness, play the troll, and/or whatever it is you are trying to > accomplish. I don't expect any camaraderie from the likes of you. I see myself as doing a service to the cat owners by posting another viewpoint. AND I see that I have had a hand in helping the overpopulation problem by giving some cats a good, loving home. You are a fine example why others like myself don't post their opinions too often because you bully and resort to personal attacks. What does my age matter anyway, if I happen to be elderly or not does not have any merit on this *discussion* You have a stereotype of old people? You think you can scare people with the paltry knowledge of Usenet that you have. So you can see posting headers and track where people have posted to. Whoop dee doo bugger boy, I can see yours too. Obviously you have delusions of grandeur. Homer howled at the moon, then scrawled thusly upon the aether: >> Just like a human being would be normal and happy after getting over >> the pain of having his (or her) fingers removed. > > And just like a human being would be normal after getting over the > pain of having his balls removed or her ovaries cut out. at least they could function normally as soon as they've recovered... it's rather difficult to type, play piano, write, climb trees, etc. with partially amputated digits. i've seen someone who can, to a certain extent and with great difficulty, but it was a matter of losing much of her fingers or losing her entire hand, not overly sharp fingernails. if you could never, ever get laid and weren't physically capable of satisfying yourself, but had the option of a simple surgery that would eliminate the frustration forever, as well as reduce the risk of certain cancers (and painful or even dangerous ovarian cysts if female), wouldn't you go for it? >> He mutilated some kittens allegedly because he read "other posts" >> which said it was a good idea. He ignored the contrary posts written [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I'm sure glad I ignored people with opinions like yourself otherwise > I'd be stuck with some razor sharp playthings. or the occasional hassle of trimming nails and gluing on nail covers that allow your cats to climb and stretch and scratch and scent mark with their paws as they would normally do without doing any damage to you or your furniture. train them to it early enough with the right rewards, and, like grooming, many cats may even consider it a treat. if that's completely impractical because, say, you're immunosuppressed and an accidental scratch while trimming nails and replacing covers would endanger your life, sure, declaw rather than get rid of the cats, but short of that there are usually far more humane options to protect yourself and your furnishings from kitty damage. >> The author seems to think that the only possible correction is to >> physically alter the cat. I guess such shallow minds are why laws [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > making asinine laws. Next thing you'll do is outlaw criticising the > president. there's quite a large difference between criticism (which, unless slanderous, directly harms no one and often is to the greater benefit when people choose to listen) and a more often than not unnecessary surgical procedure which carries with it significant risks. >> And your playthings can no longer properly exercise. They can never >> grip or climb anything again. They can no longer defend themselves. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and happy life inside the house. I'm not careless enough that they > ever accidently escape. so, you lock them in a room previous to every time you open your door for any reason? your house is completely fireproofed, or you would sooner allow them to die than escape? you never have surprise visitors, and you're the only person who will ever open your door? you keep your door lokced at all times to prevent a curious kitty from turning the knob? you have arrangements with someone who knows your cats well to keep them as indoor pets should something happen to you? there's always the possibility of escape, however remote. when my cat escaped, i assure you it was not due to carelessness on my part. indeed, he managed to get past more than one closed door. i'm glad that he had the means to hunt and defend himself, else he may have returned far more injured and ill than he did, or he may not have been able to return at all. > I don't expect any camaraderie from the likes of you. I see myself as > doing a service to the cat owners by posting another viewpoint. AND I > see that I have had a hand in helping the overpopulation problem by > giving some cats a good, loving home. thank you for providing a loving home to your feline companions. i just hope that in future SoftPaws (or similar) training is tried in as many cases as possible before declawing is seriously considered. Maeve... with typos courtesy of Fevs the lapkitty, helping me type...  Signaturethrow the baby out with the bathwater to reply by e-mail ~*~ http://volatiledreams.deep-ice.com ~*~ 666-A -- The Tenant of the Beast. > > I don't expect any camaraderie from the likes of you. I see myself as > > doing a service to the cat owners by posting another viewpoint. AND I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > hope that in future SoftPaws (or similar) training is tried in as many > cases as possible before declawing is seriously considered. If someone wants to save lives but feels they cannot train a cat properly, there are thousands of already declawed cats in shelters nation wide. Save a life - adopt! :) ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ There is no justification or rationalization for mutilation. Ban declawing as inhumane. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- WOW! A great solution! Tell me more about declawing. I have an adopted "barn cat" that refuses to accept the house as her only domain. She prefers to run with wild dogs, the wild animals found in the country, and the abandoned dogs dumped by animal lovers refusing to use an animal shelter. As long as my cat can protect herself against the ravages of nature and reality, I would love to use de-clawing as a method of teaching my cat to not claw furniture. I encourage you, tell me more about how safe my cat will be when offered your solution of removing her natural defenses in an effort to reduce clawing furniture. Bill >As unpopular as my solution was, here's my experience with declawing: >-I did feel bad for them when they were declawed since they were in [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >help solve the overpopulation problem by adopting anymore. >Homer > WOW! A great solution! Tell me more about declawing. > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > >help solve the overpopulation problem by adopting anymore. > >Homer Please please don't declaw your cat. It's mean and cruel. There are other ways of training your poor kitty. People for the Ethical Treatment of animals have some good ideas on their site. Also you can clip your cats nails. I do it all the time with our male. Also you can try a scratching post with rope instead of carpet and you can also try citrus spray whereever the cat scratches the most. You can also spay/neuter your barn cat. It's urges will more than likely go away. You can also buy a product called Soft Paws. They just glue right over the natural claws. >WOW! A great solution! Tell me more about declawing. My god, PLEASE tell me you're joking/trolling. Declawing is mutilation, short and simple. It's illegal in the UK for that very reason. If your furniture is more precious than your cat's wellbeing, then don't have a cat. Alternatively, if you're prepared to put in the effort, there are a million different ways to dissuade a cat from clawing furniture - water pistols, scent products, sticky tabs, distraction etc etc Please, please think about what you're doing to your cat if you have the ends of its paws hacked off - it's not like snipping their nails, it's like someone removing the end bones in your fingers. Not only does it impede the cat's defence and movement mechanisms, it can also have psychological consequences. The cat isn't being destructive for the sake of it - scratching and scenting its territory is intrinsic to cat behaviour. I agree wholeheartedly. My cats may claw but what if they get out and need to defend themselves? Declawing is NOT the answer. Same here. My dad got me a scratching post, and I thought it would solve the problem of them attacking the walls but they haven't taken the idea to heart so to speak. I really don't want to declaw them(what if they get out one day and they really need them to defend themselves?) My dad's girlfriend might help me by clipping them.(Slight problemo there, SHE'S ALLERGIC TO CATS!) My granparents could help except my mother won't let me take them to the farm with me. I'm really at wit's end. |
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