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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / November 2003What Can I Do To Help This Cat?
I recently adopted a 5 year old dsh/declawed/spayed female who was taken from her home when the owner threatened to dump her in the street. She was put into a waiting shelter for one month before I adopted her. I've had 2-cat combos twice before with little problem...now, I have big problems. My resident cat is a 10 lb. dsh/neutered/declawed alpha male who lost his companion 3 months ago. He's claimed every part of the apartment since then. The new girl was an only cat and is a sweetheart. I brought her into my bedroom (w/a cage) and introduced the two. It went ok until the second day when my boy jumped on her. I kept them apart since then. She has exclusive use of my bedroom. Problem 1: She has peed on the bed..the sheet..my quilts 3x so far and deficated on my quilt. I cleaned the mattress as best as I could with a diluted bleach solution, but she peed again and again. While I was cleaning (when she threw up - problem 2) she peed on the bed again. I don't know what to do. Currently there's the litterbox that was always there AND the litterbox that is in her cage. She used the box twice for peeing but is not consistant. After peeing in the box, she deficated next to the box. I put large garbage bags over where she peed on the bed. So...she peed on the garbage bag. Shall I keep her caged? How can I stop her from going on my bed. Can I teach her to use the litterbox exclusively? Problem 2: She doesn't keep food down. I feed her a little more than a teaspoon of food at a time. When I feed her at breakfast and lunch, she vomits by dinnertime. Originally, she was given Fancy Feast. I changed it to Friskies (regular, not shredded or chunks), but she threw that up too. All food given to her had fish or turkey as the first ingredient, not by-products or water. I had her at the vets for 3 days so they could monitor this situation. She was x-rayed and declared fine. Supposedly, she DID keep food down at the vet's office AND at the month-long stay at the shelter. They fed her Friskies. She had 5 teeth extracted before I got her and one tooth extracted after I got her. Dry food isn't an option. Problem 3: My resident cat cries from the other side of the door. I haven't slept more than an hour an a time since the new cat arrived. (two weeks ago - except for the 3 days she was at the vets). The inital arrangement was that she was kept in the cage (in my bedroom) while my resident cat checked her out. They met nose-to-nose (through the cage) and there was no hissing. So, I let her out of the cage and he kept his distance for a short time. Pretty soon, she hissed at/batted him..so he did the same. Then he started jumping on her (a habit he had with his former companion..she didn't like it but she was twice the size of this new cat and defended herself). I felt that made her ill so I banished him from the bedroom. I visit her in the bedroom often (even though I can't sleep on the bed). She appears to be very affectionate and nuzzles me constantly. I make sure the resident cat gets plenty of lovin', too...but sleep has been out of the question. I placed over 15 calls to the vet who treated her, my regular vet, a pet columnist, three cat rescue faciities, two members of the rescue group who handled this adoption, and other pet people. Perhaps she was given away because she had these problems. Who knows? I ordered Feliway (to help the cats co-exist) but I don't know if that'll work. I don't know how to solve any of the above problems. Perhaps she isn't meant for a 2 cat household. It breaks my heart, but I am turning psychotic from lack of sleep. Any advice here or email at luvskats00@aol.com would be so appreciated. Thank you. Hi , I'm sorry you're having a rough time . How long have you had the new cat ? It can take a couple weeks for them to get used to each other . These links will take you to archived posts on the Think Like a cat forum . You can also search the archives or join the forum yourself. Cat to cat aggression http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-ptthinkcat/?msg=14085.1 Introducing new cat http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-ptthinkcat/?msg=13954.1 You could have two litter trays with types of different litters. Cats wee outside the litterbox when upset or stressed but she could also have cystitis or urinary tract infection . Housesoiling . A very thorough article by behaviourist http://www.apbc.org.uk/ARTICLE10.htm Links to Litterbox/Inappropriate elimination problems http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pointe/9352/litterboxhelp.html Alison Links to animal information websites http://mysite.freeserve.com/petinfolinks/ > I recently adopted a 5 year old dsh/declawed/spayed female who was taken from > her home when the owner threatened to dump her in the street. She was put into [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > my heart, but I am turning psychotic from lack of sleep. Any advice here or > email at luvskats00@aol.com would be so appreciated. Thank you. alison@allofus2.fsnet.co.uk writes > I'm sorry you're having a rough time . How long have you had the new >cat ? It can take a couple weeks for them to get used to each other It's 2 weeks (minus the 3 days she was at the vets)...I thought it was much longer - not being able to sleep in my bedroom since she came - after the first night, that is....Since she DID keep food down and used the box 1) at the shelter for one month and 2) at the vets for 3 days, I believe it is not medical. I also feed her tiny amounts of food at a time..She still gets sick. I changed the food 3x..perhaps the change is doing her in also. I will try a science diet/iams brand and see what happens. Also, she peed on the mattress and the garbage bags I use to cover the damaged mattress. Since I no longer want to punish my resident cat (by banning him) and her week long stay in my bedroom - without the other cat - has not produced positive results, I will cage her and allow the cat to come back into his bedroom. Hopefully, she will use the box in the cage (she did...2x) and get the idea. I felt that keeping her caged was cruel...Placing her elsewhere might be worse..so, I'll try it. Anyone else (with multiple cats) have experience with keeping the newbies caged? She does cry in the cage - but it's either that or having my resident cat cry outside the door. Me? I need a week long stay at a mental hospital. >Since she DID keep food down and used >the box 1) at the shelter for one month >and 2) at the vets for 3 days, I believe it is >not medical. Don't assume that there is no medical issue based on the above. A UTI can crop up in a day, not to mention the fact that at the vets she was confined to a very small area and peeing in the litterbox was probably her only choice. Please get her urine checked to rule out a medical cause. That is the *only* way to be sure. Assuming it's behavioral, when indeed it might be medical and causing her pain and discomfort, would not be right. Megan  Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Don't assume that there is no medical issue based on the above. A UTI > can crop up in a day, not to mention the fact that at the vets she was [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Megan Abosulutely , peeing on plastic is a sign of cystitis , as is peeing in the bath and on smooth surfaces . Alison > "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do > nothing." [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > - W.H. Murray Alison@xalifusx2.fsnet.co.uk writes >... peeing on plastic is a sign of >cystitis , as is peeing >in the bath and on smooth >surfaces.. Many guesses can be made regarding what is wrong here. She did make on the mattress and then on the plastic bag I used to cover the peed on spot. I'm guessing that she didn't make on the floor and I missed seeing it. She DID use the box early this morning while in the cage. The vet was advised of everything I posted here. If things don't improve, I will go back to the vet for further tests. zuzu22@webtv.net writes >Don't assume that there is no >medical issue based on the >above. A UTI >an crop up in a day, not to mention >the fact that at the vets she was >confined to a very small area and >peeing in the litterbox was probably >her only choice. I understand what you're saying. Many people have written and declared that I should have this test or that test...In an ideal world, I would have everything medically checked out 4-5-6-7- times. Logically, there is too much of a possibilty that bringing her to the vet and back won't be more stress...If she checks out as OK..no guarantee that when she finally has a showdown w/the other cat, she won't stress out more...and so on. Would I deny her medical treatment? No, of course not..but I'm not running to the vet every other hour, either. The vet was told every detail I posted here and suggested the x-ray and monitoring. I complied gladly. Of the 25+ phone calls (to vets & cat experts) & posts to various newsgroups, I have been advised to do so very many things. Some are logical..some are absolutely idiotic. I have to use my (limited) judgement and follow the best course of action. Also, I have a slight suspicion that she was having health problems at her old home. the former owner (and idiot, to be sure) claimed that the cat was too much trouble. Since the cat was the solo cat and practically stayed in one place, I am guessing that she exhibited some of the problems I face now - over there. And that's why she was given over to the rescue group...This is only a guess, though. > zuzu22@webtv.net writes > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > medically checked out 4-5-6-7- times. Logically, there is too much of a > possibilty that bringing her to the vet and back won't be more stress... Yes, but inappropriate urination is often one of the first signs of UTI -- easy to detect and treat, but it can be fatal (and quickly) if left untreated. If you can collect a urine sample (and a cat that urinates on plastic is helping you here), take a fresh sample to the vet and have it tested. This should be very inexpensive. MaryL carstan101@yahoo.com writes > inappropriate urination is often >one of the first signs of UTI -- >easy to detect and treat, but it can >be fatal (and quickly) if left >untreated. She has not urinated in at least 24 hours..she's been caged and uses the box in the bed. I have to bring her in tomorrow..I can't wait anymore. > How can I stop her from going on my bed. Can I teach her to use the > litterbox exclusively? Absolutely the FIRST thing to do is to get this cat out of your bedroom. Imight keep her in a bathroom with her current problems, until she gets really used to going in her box. It is not cruel. It is necessary for a cat with this problem. She has had vet care, but like many cats, she simply prefers to eliminate in inappropriate places. This might be okay--But NOT if it is your bed. Get her out of your bedroom, in a small room with no carpeting, no bedding, except a bed for her, if you have one, or just a blanket. > Problem 2: She doesn't keep food down. [snip]Supposedly, she DID keep food down at the vet's > office AND at the month-long stay at the shelter. They fed her Friskies. She > had 5 teeth extracted before I got her and one tooth extracted after I got her. > Dry food isn't an option. Have you tried giving her Friskies? If she kept it down, why mess with what worked? She may just be upset at the change, and her stomach will settle dow. Again, you have taken her to the vet, so that part is done. > Problem 3: My resident cat cries from the other side of the door. Get both animals away from your bedroom. You have to sleep. >> Perhaps she was given away because > she had these problems. You bet. This sort of inappropriate elimination is very frustrating, and with some cats, very ingrained. I think you are a sweetheart to take her on, and I think you can probably solve her problem, but NOT while she is in your bedroom. She needs time to settle in, and you need your sleep in order to function. I hate to say it, but you have your hands full. Sometimes cats that have problems like this, at this age are almost irreversible. I agree with Mary regarding putting her in a bathroom until she settles down, and you get on a normal sleeping schedule, and minimize your damages. Also, granted your resident cat is neutered and declawed, I would just let them go at it. You are dealing with two elderly cats, not tigers. They are going to have to deal with each other eventually, unless you give the newer cat back. What is the worst that can happen? They scream, hiss and spit at each other? Bonding will have to be established eventually. I do know what you are going through. If at all possible, you may want to separate your resident cat in another room to keep him from screaming at your door, and put the new cat in your bathroom, so you can get some sleep. That way everyone is a happy camper for the evening. Good luck with the Feliway. I expect to see updates as they happen. >Also, granted your resident cat is >neutered and declawed, I would just let >them go at it. This is incredibly CRUEL and STUPID advice and I hope the OP has the good sense to ignore it. Doing the above will only increase the stress levels of BOTH cats and create unnecessary trauma for the new cat, who up until this time has been an *only* cat. This would be cruel and is NOT in the best interests of either cat. I really wish you would stop posting this sort of crap (but you've done it so consistently I'm not going to hold my breath.) It doesn't help the cats and often hurts them. You prove time and time again that you know *nothing* about cat behavior and are geared towards what seems to be convenient without taking into consideration the consequences that following your idiotic advice will cause. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray zuzu22@webtv.net writes >granted your resident cat is >neutered and declawed, I would >just let them go at it. >>This is incredibly CRUEL and >>STUPID advice and I hope the >>OP has the >>good sense to ignore it. Doing >>the above will only increase the stress >>levels of BOTH cats and create >>unnecessary trauma for the new cat, who >>up until this time has been an >>*only* cat. I truly believe that some people have good intentions and can't express themselves very well in their posts. Others have no clue, but write anyway. For every response I received with advice to do this or that, I get a response to do the exact opposite. It boggles the mind. No..I wouldn't let two cats just "go at it"..but I believe the actual intent was to allow the cats to do what they will, ultimately. At some point - whether it is today or 6 months from today - the two cats will have to face each other and decide how to interact. I don't have the luxury of separating them forever. Some people urge me to wait up to 6 months (not even close to possible) and some say to do it yesterday (duh). I am encouraged that (while caged) she used the box to deficate. I will monitor her today and allow her out if she uses the box to pee (of course I cleaned the box, silly). I also will not allow her to roam until 36 hours pass without throwing up. After that...it's touch & go. Resident cat's focus is to get through the cage to the cat. I'm expecting Feliway today and pray it will help with the territorial issues. Yea, Megan is back! Everyone lets gather around in a circle so Megan can tell us about feline anatomy, physiology, and psychology. Megan thanks for responding to my post. I admit, I am not a vet, nor am I an animal psychologist. I'm not at Veterinary Tech, nor do I run a shelter. My post comes from my experiences that I have dealt with regarding feline troubles. Since you are undoubtedly double my age, and have owned and or fostered more cats than I have ever had, your ultimate wisdom is always welcome. I don't know why you dissected my previous post. How do you think these animals would deal with the situation if they were outdoors, by themselves? Do you actually think that the new cat would tolerate being jumped on, and abused? I beg to differ. Yeah, I may have been a bit dramatic when I said, "let them go at it;" but eventually it will happen. You of all people have to agree that you cannot force cats to like each other, especially in this situation, with a resident alpha male. Some will live with a newcomer easily, others will never relate, or they may just manage to live alongside each other in an uneasy truce - you can only try. However, if there is no competition for food or safe sleeping places (as in most good homes, like yours) then cats will accept each other eventually and some will even seem to form close bonds with one another. I know that you are really touchy regarding cats, and there isn't anything wrong with that. You are truly a piece of work. The only point that I am gesturing, is that the sooner you treat the situation as though they are little animals instead of little humans, the better off everyone will be. But, anyway Megan, thanks for the reply. I have missed you and your Edmund Burke and W.H. Murray quotes. > Yea, Megan is back! Everyone lets gather around in a circle so Megan can > tell us about feline anatomy, physiology, and psychology. Heh. [...] > Yeah, I may have been a bit dramatic when I said, "let them > go at it;" but eventually it will happen. I just want to say that I saw this coming. Megan is nothing if not predictable. *shaking my head* I knew what you meant, and think you are right. > However, if there is no competition for > food or safe sleeping places (as in most good homes, like yours) then cats > will accept each other eventually and some will even seem to form close > bonds with one another. T'is true. As long as everyone has a place to retreat to and a middle, neutral place to meet they are fine. > I just want to say that I saw this coming. Megan is nothing if not > predictable. She also knows cat behavior pretty well. She was right on with my feral, and this feral and the other two cats are all much less stressed due to her advice. Some people could learn a thing or two. Cheryl, No one is disputing Megan's' knowledge of cats. It's the way in which she disrespectfully disagrees with others opinions. There are ways that one can respectfully disagree, and offer advice on the topic. How do you think these animals > would deal with the situation if they were outdoors, by themselves? Do you > actually think that the new cat would tolerate being jumped on, and abused? The new cat would run away and avoid a confrontation. Outdoors they would have a larger range and she would avoid his territory if he was threatening to her. Alison Alison, I agree with you to an extent. As I have already said, you cannot force cats to like each other, especially in this situation, with a 10 year old resident alpha male. Some cats will live with a newcomer easily, others will never relate, or they may just manage to live alongside each other in an uneasy truce - you can only try. However, if there is no competition for food or safe sleeping places, then cats will accept each other eventually and some will even seem to form close bonds with one another. In my opinion, at this juncture of the resident cat's life, it's almost unkind to try to force two middle age cats to adjust to one another. Talk about stress for the cats and unneeded strain. Sometimes another cat isn't the best idea, or a solution to the problem. I understand the sympathy and the irritation that the original poster went through, when they heard the story about the female cat, which was taken from her home when the owner threatened to dump her in the street. I'd be tempted to take her too. But in this case, if the prognosis of the new cat doesn't improve, then what? The original poster said that her resident cat "claimed every part of the apartment since" and that the resident male cat "jumped on her (the new cat), a habit he had with his former companion." Do you keep the cats separated forever; one cat in the main living area, and the other in a spare bedroom, master bedroom, or a spare bathroom? Granted the resident male cat has been jumping on other cats its whole life; that action is probably never going to change. Will the two cats ever get along? Who is to say? Nevertheless, one thing is certain there will be a lot of fighting regardless of if the new female cat can be helped, and her problems corrected. One has to wonder; CAN the problems of the new cat be corrected? If the cat CAN be helped and the cats DO NOT get along, then what" Take it back to the shelter? Do you force the relationship? What if the problems with the new cat CANNOT be corrected and the new cat continues to urinate and defecate outside the litter box, continuing to ruin mattresses, soiling on carpet, blankets, aggravating the resident cat, and the original poster? Is there a line? Does the original poster say enough is enough? In my opinion, since the two cats are now forced to share a domain, a clear understanding of territory has to be established. The new cat cannot "run away and avoid a confrontation" for long. My gesture of "just let them go at it" may have been a bit over the top, but it's going to happen if the poster wants to keep the cats in the same apartment. Nonetheless, out of all my years of dealing with animals, I have never, never taken a cat to the vet because of puncture wounds, or any damages inflicted by the incisors, canines or molars of another cat. I could be wrong; maybe her cat has ardent taste for blood. They are cats; they will bat at each other with their declawed paws, and hiss and meow really loudly at one another. Once they go through the motions of "going at it", they will most likely stay away from each other until its feeding time. Nonetheless, I hope that the poster works through this predicament. I wish her or him the best of luck. >Alison, >I agree with you to an extent. As I have already said, you cannot force cats >to like each other, especially in this situation, with a 10 year old >resident alpha male. Again, the cat is *not* ten years old. It is four. The other cat is five. You keep offering advice and referring to them as elderly or middle-aged cats, and they aren't. But the point I wanted to make is, I think you are very wrong about such an abrupt introduction. Being treated for an abscess (which *is* a possibility) isn't the biggest problem. It's the stress you're putting on both cats. Sherry Sherry, The point I am stressing is that I believe this is a wrong move on the posters behalf. If she had more living space, this territory problem may rarely occur. Needless to say, the fighting will be inevitable. My opinion, it was a bad move on the originals posters part for trying to force another relationship. What I post as advice is my personal experience with cats; it' s not for everyone. I have always introduced a new cat bluntly, without any problems. Yeah, there have been fights, but the majority of the time the cats end up staring each other down and hissing, once they know there isn't anywhere to retreat. The slow introduction doesn't always work out the way it should. Iso" nospam@hotmail.com> says > My opinion, it was a bad move on >the originals posters part for trying >to force another relationship. Ironically, I know more (about cats) now that I ever did before..and this pairing is the most difficult. I remember my cats (both combos) being introduced w/out a gradual plan. The newcomer was let out of the carrier and allowed to hide and come out when ready. Both combos managed to a great degree, but had good times and confrontations here and there..I'm more concerned now because of the (initial) keeping food down problems and the not using the box. > Ironically, I know more (about cats) now that I ever did before..and this > pairing is the most difficult. That's how it goes! Bg. You learn by experience. >I remember my cats (both combos) being > introduced w/out a gradual plan. The newcomer was let out of the carrier and > allowed to hide and come out when ready. Both combos managed to a great > degree, but had good times and confrontations here and there..I'm more > concerned now because of the (initial) keeping food down problems and the not > using the box. I haven't been able to keep up with the posts ( did I see one about using newspaper as cat litter?) cats can be *very* fussy about the type of litter. Maybe being declawed has got something to do with it (I've no experience of declawed cats ) BTW you could put the resident cat in the cage while the new cat runs about , that way they would be in the same room and it would give the new cat more confidence. If you have time to read , Pam johnson-bennet's books are good , Think like a cat and Psycho kitty (or something like that !) Alison > > Ironically, I know more (about cats) now that I ever did before..and > this [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > (or something like that !) > Alison If the resident cat is placed in a cage, it will feel completely displaced and is likely to display even more dislike and aggression toward the new cat. It is important for the resident cat to see the new cat as a new addition and not as competition for affection. MaryL carstan101@yahoo.com says >If the resident cat is placed in a >cage, it will feel completely >displaced >and is likely to display even more >dislike and aggression toward the >new cat..... Sorry I was not clear. I would sooner lock myself in a cage before I would lock my honeyboy in one. When I said he was in the cage, I meant (but didn't explain) that he claimed the cage as his own...the door was open the entire time....Because he smelled/saw the new girl in the cage, he had to claim it as his own. He sprawled in there like a lion waiting for a steak...it was so cute...he goes in and out of the cage all day and has a ball. I would never cage him. He's my boy! > Sorry I was not clear. I would sooner lock myself in a cage before I would lock > my honeyboy in one. When I said he was in the cage, I meant (but didn't [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > cute...he goes in and out of the cage all day and has a ball. I would never > cage him. He's my boy! The devil ! Sorry I didn't mean that you leave him in it all the time , if he is in there any way and is relaxed, a few minutes wouldn't hurt. It's one way of him getting used to the newbie being in the room with out him attacking her. It would give her more confidence too. But if you're not happy with it then obviously don't do it. Alison > >> If the resident cat is placed in a cage, it will feel completely displaced > and is likely to display even more dislike and aggression toward the new > cat. It is important for the resident cat to see the new cat as a new > addition and not as competition for affection. > > MaryL Thats an interesting point. Is this what happened with your cats ? I've not used penning for adult cats but I've used the swapping rooms advice. Alison > > >> If the resident cat is placed in a cage, it will feel completely > displaced [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > advice. > Alison No, this didn't happen to my cats -- and I also used swapping rooms with great success. My concern was with possibly placing the resident cat in a cage where it could see the "intruder" (as resident cat would consider it) roaming free. My cat, Holly, had always been very aggressive toward any other cat, so I took great care (and lots of time) when I first adopted Duffy. My first step was to place Duffy in a room of his own, but I spent a considerable amount of time with him -- and always gave Holly lots of extra attention whenever I left that room. I have described the steps I used in considerable detail in some earlier threads, but I am convinced that the success I have had in acclimating the two can be attributed to slow, measured steps and always letting Holly see that she was not going to be displaced by a newcomer. I also had three Feliway diffusers in different areas of the house, and I think that is an excellent way to help reduce stress. My two are truly loving cats, and it is a very relaxed household. MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") --> > > "Alison" <alison@XallofusX2.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message > >> No, this didn't happen to my cats -- and I also used swapping rooms with > great success. My concern was with possibly placing the resident cat in a > cage where it could see the "intruder" (as resident cat would consider it) [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > MaryL > (take out the litter to reply) Thanks for explaining . I have done the same as you .I think the idea of placing cats in pens and swapping was after the methods of using other rooms failed. Sometimes it can over come that final hurdle or so I've been led to believe What you've said is food for thought. If I offer advice , I'll say (usually !) if it's from my own experiences or it's from well-known (and respected , I hope ) behaviourists. I think along the lines of first do no harm and in this case I'll have to go back to do some re-reading and questioning . Alison Alison writes MaryL said > If the resident cat is placed in a >cage, it will feel completely >displaced > and is likely to display even more >dislike and aggression toward the >new cat. >> Thats an interesting point. Is this >what happened with your cats ? >>I've not used penning for adult >>cats but I've used the swapping >>rooms A big misunderstanding..go back & reread the posts..it'll make sense. I did not close the cage door when my boy went in the cage. I would sooner lock myself up! He has come & gone many times...apparently it's something new & he's proud as a peacock for claiming it as his own. Meanwhile, the new girl is on the bed looking on! <g > Alison writes > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > he's proud as a peacock for claiming it as his own. Meanwhile, the new girl is > on the bed looking on! <g> Yes, I saw your earlier post explaining this. I was responding to another question with this message -- but this is such a long, convoluted thread that it sometimes becomes difficult to extract the "right" reply. I did try to respond to some of your other concerns. MaryL Alison@xallofusX2.fsnet.co.uk writes >I haven't been able to keep up with >the posts ( did I see one about >using newspaper as cat litter?) >cats can be *very* fussy about the >type of litter. Maybe being >declawed has got something to do >with it.. Unfortunately, people have spread misguided information about declawing. I'm not an advocate of declawing, but - before I knew anything - I had a cat declawed. While every cat is different (obviously) there is no evidence that declawing changes behavior to become more negative. People may claim their cat did change and other people would swear there was no change, etc. I adopted a 5 y.o. declawed cat and my resident cat is 4 y.o. & declawed. He's the same as before the declaw...and she's a sweetie pie. I've used newspapers for 4 years. My then resident cat (who passed away in August) used litter for over 11 years before I switched to newspaper. She didn't miss a beat. This new cat is a bit more difficult, however, I only gave her 2 1/2 weeks to adjust to everything so far....she has a way to go, but is better today than she was on day one. "Luvskats00" <luvskats00@aol.com> wrote in message > >> Unfortunately, people have spread misguided information about declawing. I'm > not an advocate of declawing, but - before I knew anything - I had a cat > declawed. While every cat is different (obviously) there is no evidence that > declawing changes behavior to become more negative. People may claim their cat > did change and other people would swear there was no change, etc. I adopted a 5 > y.o. declawed cat and my resident cat is 4 y.o. & declawed. He's the same as > before the declaw...and she's a sweetie pie. It's not an issue in the UK. Keeping a cat in 24/7 is considered by the majority of cats owners a bit iffy but cat declaw is considered BLEUCH, though maybe some misguided people would consider it if they could find a vet prepared to do it for non-medical reasons. Alison I've used newspapers for 4 years. > My then resident cat (who passed away in August) used litter for over 11 years > before I switched to newspaper. She didn't miss a beat. This new cat is a bit > more difficult, however, I only gave her 2 1/2 weeks to adjust to everything so > far....she has a way to go, but is better today than she was on day one. alison@xallofusX2.fsnet.co.uk writes (declawing) >It's not an issue in the >UK. Keeping a cat in 24/7 is >considered by >the majority of cats owners a bit >iffy but cat declaw is considered >BLEUCH, though maybe some >misguided people would consider it if >they could find a vet prepared to >do it for non-medical reasons. Don't know if you researched this subject or not, Alison, but I did. The general opinion of both declaw and keeping cats inside are quite different in the UK and in the US (the rest of the world is not included in this little message). Apparently, folks in the UK believe it's natural to let cats roam outside and cruel to keep them in; cruel to declaw and against the law (so I've been told/I've read)...in the US, most - if not all - experts and animal groups who focus on humane treatment advocate keeping pets inside. The reasoning is that they are domestic animals - not wild ones, like the tiger, lion, etc. Unless there is no threat of danger (cars that can run over them, toxic substances (such as antifreeze/coolant which can cause a slow painful death) wild animal/dogs who can maim or kill them, etc, then they shouldn't be kept indoor. Cats can't read street signs or tell the difference between red & green traffic signals, nor do they look both ways before crossing. Every single episode of Discovery's Animal Planet's "Emergecy Vets" shows one or more cats who are dying because they were left outside. Also, many cats left to roam either never come home because they get lost and others are abducted by neighbors and dropped off at shelters. Then, there are the mindless morons who allow their cats outside with no ID tag (indicating a non-pet). Declawing is done by US vets as a routine procedure...that is, front paw declaw...when an idiotic vet suggests 4-paw declaw as a matter of routine, that vet's license should be suspended -- if it were up to me. I don't advocate declawing, but if other alternatives fail to work and the only other option is to surrender the cat, then I opt for the front paw declaw. The behavior does not change due to declaw and cats live long healthy lives after this procedure...but, it should be a last resort. > Don't know if you researched this subject or not, Alison, but I did. The > general opinion of both declaw and keeping cats inside are quite different in > the UK and in the US (the rest of the world is not included in this little > message). No , really ? BG Alison > Declawing is done by US vets as a > routine procedure...that is, front paw > declaw... Torture is done routinely in some countries. Female genital mutilation is another *routine* procedure in some places. It doesn't make it right. >when an idiotic vet suggests > 4-paw declaw as a matter of routine, > that vet's license should be suspended >-- if it were up to me. Oh, so it's ok for two paws but not four? >I don't advocate > declawing, but if other alternatives > fail to work and the only other option > is to surrender the cat, then I opt for > the front paw declaw. You have clearly advocated declawing twice already in this post, and your "declaw or surrender" scenario is nonsense. >The behavior does > not change due to declaw and cats live > long healthy lives after this > procedure...but, it should be a last > resort. If you really believe this then I have a bridge in Brooklyn... Why don't you spout your nonsensical, uneducated theories to the 300 declawed cats that were killed in *one* shelter in a one year period because they had behavior problems and were considered unadoptable: http://www.southjerseynews.com/issues/february/m020103h.htm Extrapolating those numbers presents a very gruesome scenario, and it is one that could be totally avoided if people spent a little time and effort to learn about and understand cats (something which you clearly have no intention of doing.) Megan (astounded at Luvskats00 all-encompassing ignorance) Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > alison@xallofusX2.fsnet.co.uk writes > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > long healthy lives after this procedure...but, it should be a last > resort. Hey NY Writer. Funny how your problems seem to change but your openmindedness never does. I knew by your writing style who you were. A few google searches confirmed it. This one is classic. Probably the one that started you morphing your name. http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=2 0020802094646.10196.00001062%40mb-mg.aol.com jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com flushes and spits >Hey NY Writer....I knew by your writing style who you were. >A few google searches confirmed it. Wow..is this what you do instead of playing with yourself? For the record, both screen names are used by family members..They were never created to hide behind a false identity. All you had to do was ask. By your behavior, it's apparent you are used to digging into garbage and causing trouble. All my responses regarding cat "owners" who allow their cats to roam are based on research and experience. For the record, I am taking legal courses (research, animal rights law and related subject matter)..I have volunteered communicating w/political leaders in my state (and Washington) to introduce or strengthen laws for humane treatment for animals. I have concentrated on carriage horses in NYC and cats. I will be interviewing with the ASPCA to volunteer with their legal work to do the same. You are an idiot! "Cheryl" <jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com> wrote in message news:bpehd2$5j8 > Hey NY Writer. Funny how your problems seem to change but your > openmindedness never does. I knew by your writing style who you were. > A few google searches confirmed it. This one is classic. Probably > the one that started you morphing your name. http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=2 > 0020802094646.10196.00001062%40mb-mg.aol.com Does this mean that you disagree with her? Or in what way does it add to the discussion? > "Cheryl" <jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:bpehd2$5j8 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> were. A few google searches confirmed it. This one is classic. >> Probably the one that started you morphing your name. http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=2 >> 0020802094646.10196.00001062%40mb-mg.aol.com > > Does this mean that you disagree with her? Or in what way does it > add to the discussion? Just a little history lesson. Old regs would know the correlation. ;) >From: "Cheryl" jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com >I don't advocate >> declawing, but if other alternatives fail to work and the only [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=2 >0020802094646.10196.00001062%40mb-mg.aol.com Ugh!!! ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >A few google searches confirmed it. This one is classic. Probably >the one that started you morphing your name. I made many attempts to access the link provided in reference to this. Would appreciate someone cutting/pasting the actual message so I can verify the authenticity. Thanks. > >A few google searches confirmed it. This one is classic. Probably > >the one that started you morphing your name. > > I made many attempts to access the link provided in reference to this. Would > appreciate someone cutting/pasting the actual message so I can verify the > authenticity. Thanks. [quote] From: NY WRITER (nywriter@aol.com) Subject: Re: SO WHO LET WAFFLES READ MARIO PUZO? View: Complete Thread (16 articles) Original Format Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.anecdotes Date: 2002-08-02 06:47:47 PST It was 9:22 am, on Friday, another hot and humid day, when I stumbled across a post in a newsgroup. It wasn't just any post...it was a stupid post; someone's account of a cat named Waffles who was allowed to roam outside. By now, the world just realize that unless there's no possibility of danger within a 50-mile radius, cats should remain indoors. A person who claims to love a cat or two, should be responsible enough to take care of those cats. It's not difficult to learn what could happen to the precious cat, just read any number of newsgroup entries (or watch a couple of episodes of "Emergency Vets" on Discovery's Animal Planet. Waffles should have been indoors the whole night, not roamin' around outside - god knows where. It was 9:43 am, on Friday, when she signed off to face the hot and humid day. [/quote] http://tinyurl.com/vpga -- ~kaeli~ Condoms should be used on every conceivable occasion. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace Regarding the accusation about a specific post (located in a google search...a few days ago) someone had posted: >"A few google searches confirmed >it. This one is classic. Probably >the one that started you morphing >your name..." The message was a response to someone (one of hundreds) who had posted about the death of their cat who was allowed to roam outside. How difficult is it (for a present/future cat owner/guardian) to determine the danger level of the environment outside the home? It's presumed the person who is to have responsibility over the animal is able to have a higher level of thinking and can master daily tasks, including deciding whether it is safe for the cat to be outside.. It doesn't take a genius to figure out if there is too much traffic outside, too many possibilities of poisons and/or predators. It's not a big leap, either, to get info on how many cats have died due to outside causes. I live in a high traffic (city) area. The odds are against the cats (outside in this locale) living a long life. Cars have run over cats here on a regular basis. Yet, people continue to let their cats out. As I posted (below)...many - if not all - episodes of Animal Planet's "Emergency Vets" show a cat coming in w/a fatal or near fatal injury due to being let outside. Most - if not all - animal humane societies in the US support keeping cats inside. I have seen some cats that have been run over and the facial expression(s) have burned in my memory together. It's beyond heartbreak. So, in summation, to the person who gleefully/wickedly thought you were "bringing me down" because I wasn't nice to the idiot who let his cat die outside...get a life..an education .. and a brain. >...someone's account of a cat named Waffles who was allowed to >roam outside....unless there's no >possibility of danger >within a 50-mile radius, cats >should remain indoors. >A person who claims to love a cat or two, should be responsible enough [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Waffles should have been indoors the whole night, not roamin' around >outside - god knows where. > Regarding the accusation about a specific post (located in a google > search...a few days ago) someone had posted: It was last night. <nasty repeat of original post snipped> > So, in summation, to the person who gleefully/wickedly thought you > were "bringing me down" because I wasn't nice to the idiot who let > his cat die outside...get a life..an education .. and a brain. That's just the point. You repeatedly aren't nice and seem to think everyone lives in your world. You also seem to think that by changing your nick all the time that you can keep getting out of people's killfiles. Your replies in this thread (before you changed the name of it) were pissing me off. You asked for help yet you shot down most suggestions as if you already have a plan and only wanted our blessing rather than try some other approaches, such as giving the cat some normal litter or at least finding out what the shelter used and try that. If by exposing your past nicks and old nasty replies to newcomers is "bringing you down", get used to it. If you continue to change your nick it will always be spotted because you are a nasty person who fakes being nice once in a while. I think you are extremely rude and obnoxious and that 1) listing of things gets on my nerves. Go on, change your nick again. I want you to. Ph34r my m4d sk1LLZ. :) "Cheryl" jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com drools & spits.. You repeatedly aren't nice and >seem to think >everyone lives in your world. You also seem to think that by changing >your nick all the time that you can keep getting out of people's >killfiles. Really..you should stop running at the mouth before checking fact. I realize you're an idiot, but you can minimize the damage..... 1) Before accusing me of being nasty ALL the time, I invite you to chart/graph every single post in cat newsgroups and mathematically deduce the percentage of good to bad. 2) You need to conduct research before talking through your a**..oh..I implied that above. What research did you conduct to determine and accuse me of hiding behind a screen name? In reality, I bought a Gateway computer which came with a 12 month free AOL membership. I cancelled my then-current membership as required, but was not allowed to transfer my user ID. In addition to that, I created this screen name because I do love cats. If you want to hold the hand of every person who writes that they are mourning the loss of their cat after letting their cat outside and that cat was hit by a car, etc. You can..no one will stop you from doing anything (unless you're infringing on the rights of others, of course). And, unless these people who lament about the deaths can assure us that they held training sessions so that the cat could read "walk/don't walk" signs..that the cat could know the difference between red & green traffic signals...that the cat would know not to drink antifreeze/coolant, a tasty drink..toxic and causes seizures and a painful death - then you could keep your mouth shut. There will be a steady stream of people who post about the death of their pets. You do your part to make them feel better (and I will continue to lobby to make these simpletons feel more responsible in being the guardian of a pet who can't negotiate the above described events.) > "Cheryl" jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com > drools & spits.. Very clever. Are you a writer? ;) > I bought a Gateway computer which came with a 12 month free AOL > membership. I cancelled my then-current membership as required, but > was not allowed to transfer my user ID. 1) NY Writer 2) Awriteny 3) Luvskats00 Hmmm.. stinks of morphing to me. jlhshadow@hotmail.com spits out >. stinks of morphing to me. Don't ever let facts get in the way of things that come out of your mouth! > jlhshadow@hotmail.com > spits out >> . stinks of morphing to me. > > Don't ever let facts get in the way of things that come out of your > mouth! WTF does that mean? > > jlhshadow@hotmail.com > > spits out [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > WTF does that mean? Maybe that just because someone changes a nickname doesn't mean they are "morphing." Why the hell should someone use the same name anyway? You are starting to sound like a real a.shole, Cheryl. Nobody likes a netdick. Except maybe the Burnores. >From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com >> > jlhshadow@hotmail.com >> > spits out [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Except maybe the Burnores. I'm glad I know this poster is really NYWriter. Then I can killfile her too. I don't like reading posts from people who promote declawing. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Lauren I would think that you might want to know what the pro-declaw crowd is up to. In any case, I never use killfiles. I use self control. I scroll right on past the posts/posters I don't want to read. What I really dislike is when anyone in Usenet attempts to harass anyone else into silence. It is nobody's business who the poster is or how many names he or she might post under. It is nobody's place here to police how anyone posts--under what name, pro-or-con whatever, etc. At least luvscats has been posting on topic, and not on the posting habits of the posters. >From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com ><darnit7@aol.comnolitter> wrote in message >news:20031120083914.03434.00000594@mb-m29.aol.com... [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >I would think that you might want to know what the pro-declaw crowd is >up to. I do understand what you're saying. I'm just trying to keep my blood pressure under control. I've gone the rounds with her before. >In any case, I never use killfiles. I use self control. I scroll right >on past the posts/posters I don't want to read. You've got more self-control than I do :) >What I really dislike is when anyone in Usenet attempts to harass >anyone else into silence. It is nobody's business who the poster is or [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >At least luvscats has been posting on topic, and not on the posting >habits of the posters. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > What I really dislike is when anyone in Usenet attempts to harass > anyone else into silence. It is nobody's business who the poster is > or how many names he or she might post under. Mary, this is not about anyones right to morph their name. It is about an a.shole who made a lot of "enemies" and thinks they can change their "name" and make it all ok. You may not have been around then. So STFU about it. "Cheryl" <jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com> wrote in message ne > So STFU about it. <G> I don't think so. Usenet is funny, isn't it? I'm not so sure luvscats is trying to "make it all okay." I think she is just trying to post--on-topic--unharrassed. You need to brush up on your bullying "skills," Cheryl. Neither I nor luvscats "fears" your bullshit. It's a sorry little person who is so threatened by an opposing point of view that it must censor. Please don't "shut the f.ck up" as your juvie acronym instructed me to do. It is in my best interest for you to speak, speak, speak. :-) >I'm glad I know this poster is really NYWriter. Then I can killfile her too. >I don't like reading posts from people who promote declawing. > >Lauren >________ LOL! >See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe >Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html >http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html >Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm To lauren at instantkarmar no email address....nice going..no email address. Just how many posts do you deny writing? You write, then drool >I'm glad I know this poster is really NYWriter. Then I can killfile her too. >I don't like reading posts from people who promote declawing. > Websters defines "PROMOTE" to contribute to the growth or prosperity of : FURTHER <promote international understanding> b : to help bring (as an enterprise) into being : LAUNCH c : to present (merchandise) for buyer acceptance through advertising, publicity, or discounting That would mean that I would exclusively publicize/advertise/post continually/devote a website or print publication to exclusive declawing. Since you don't let facts get in the way of blaming or accusing someone, let me point out that I advocate/promote/stand behind declawing as a last resort means only. I've said that many times. There have been a significant number of posts where I had stated that I would never declaw a cat and specifically looked for a declawed cat to adopt. That declawed cat became the subject of many other posts when I asked for help with litterbox problems. I also went on to state that there was no scientific or behavioral evidence - from my research (contacting vets in NY, NJ and Calif veterinary schools) that would prove cats changed behavior after declawing. No..declawing should not be done routinely..nor should 4-paw declaw even be considered. But, you don't want facts..you want to cause trouble. Facts are too annoying for you to deal with, obviously. Have you finished high school? If not...it's not too late. >From: luvskats00@aol.com (Luvskats00) >To lauren at instantkarmar no email address....nice going..no email address. >Just how many posts do you deny writing? Huh???? >You write, then drool >>I'm glad I know this poster is really NYWriter. Then I can killfile her [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] >not...it's >not too late. Obviously it's you who needs the education. I've been down the "declaw as a last resort" road with you way too many times, and frankly, you're just a loser who has no respect for cats whatsoever. Don't you wonder just a teeny tiny little bit why your declawed cat is having litterbox problems? Did it ever occur to you that a vet, who amputates the ends of cats toes for a living, is not going to be truthful that the very act they did caused the cat problems? You really are an idiot, and THAT is a fact. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm darnit7@aol.com - who is in need of therapy - writes: > I've been down the "declaw as a >last resort" road with you way too >many times, and frankly, you're just a loser who has no respect for cats >whatsoever. Don't you wonder just >a teeny tiny little bit why your >declawed cat is having litterbox >problems?.... You have made many attempts to respond to other people's posts, but you are so incoherent and so unable to digest information or absorb logic, it's impossible for you to respond with any intelligent reply. All you do is respond with "loser" and claims of "you have no respect for cats"...I, on the other hand, have continued to offer documentation at every step of the way. The trouble with you - sick as you are - is that you don't see any correlation (look up that word to understand the meaning) between writing nasty posts and proving what is written. As far you stupid/false accusations... 1) I have the utmost respect for cats and offered references to: a)the veterinarian I've used for 20 years, b)the heads of the various rescue group where I volunteered c)the people who now have the cats I placed with them as a rescue adoption volunteer d)the instructor employeed by the American Red Cross who taught the seminar where I learned first aid for pets e)the various humane societies where I volunteered to write to local, regional and national representatives (from assemblymen to the Mayor to the Governor to Congress to the President) and campaign for more humane treatment/stronger laws. Please provide documentation as to what you have done to better the cause of any animal. In additon, you don't even read any posts all the way through. You grab onto a couple of words and start your rant. Go back and chart the posts regarding the litterbox problem "I Need Help With This Cat" etc. This cat was declawed 4 1/2 year ago. I got her about 3 weeks ago. I posted that she has now used the litterbox 2 days in a row. It obviously turned out to be stress. Declawing had nothing to do with it. Unfortunately, you belong in the group who have an agenda and don't bother with the facts of the issue, you just want to get your way. That's a stupid path. But, then again, you're stupid. I invite you to research and share any scientific/behavioral studies supporting your claim that cats who are declawed are ruined forever. The significant number of cats - who are declawed - waiting for adoption have their own behavior traits...like their non-declawed counterparts. I know you will read .01 % of this post. Too bad. <SNIP> >Websters defines "PROMOTE" > to contribute to the growth or prosperity of : FURTHER <promote international >understanding> b : to help bring (as an enterprise) into being : LAUNCH c : to >present (merchandise) for buyer acceptance through advertising, publicity, or >discounting <SNIP> >Have you finished high school? If not...it's >not too late. Title of this thread : Accussation Re Google Search ^^^^^^^^^^^ LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!! >> From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > killfile her too. I don't like reading posts from people who > promote declawing. And it certainly explains why the reply posts to her "call for help" shot down all help. That is what prompted all this. She may as well have said "I adopted a cat, I'm having a problem but here is what I'm going to do about it..." And the winner of the idiot of the year award goes to: "Cheryl" jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com Who, once again, disregards facts to post the first thing that comes to mind like word association. No truth allowed in Cheryl's world... She spews >"And it certainly explains why the reply posts to her "call for help" >shot down all help.....She may as >well have said "I adopted a cat, I'm >having a problem but here is what >I'm going to do about it..." Sheesh..the number of people who post without regard for the truth is increasing. Cheryl, I feel so sorry for you...do you ever tell the truth? The truth is that if anyone here does a quick search, you'll easily see the large number of responses of people who were kind enough to offer advice. I posted responses to all responses read..thanking each one who took the time to write. Obviously, not everyone in this newsgroup - or anyone who has cats - has to be sane, pleasant to people or have the ability to interact in society. Cheryl, obviously, is unable to qualify here. Also, obvious..if a person posts a request for advice, that person will explain what was being done presently and what can be done. So, of course, I explained how I was trying to have the cat use the litterbox. The cat was urinating and deficating on my bed. As the advice came in, I tried the suggestions and posted the steps taken and the results...like a progress report. I also posted the problem with keeping food down. If I was such an evil sort - like (insane person) Cheryl, I wouldn't work so hard to help the cat keep food down and use the box. I also posted that I brought the cat back to the vet for an x-ray and monitoring..i called the rescue group for the advice and even tried to get to the vet of the former owner to get a history. I will be glad to also forward the responses received in the east coast feline rescue newsgroups. It was there that I received advice to try Dr. Elsey's "Cat Attract" cat litter. It's guaranteed to "attract" the cat to use the box or money back. As I posted before, I will gladly provide references to the heads of the rescue groups I have volunteered with and the legal groups I've worked with to help change/strengthen laws in NY for humane treatment for animals. All of this has been coveniently ignored by sick Cheryl and other trolls. I guess it's easier to lie and post libelous claims against someone than to take time to see whether the (false) claims are accurate. > And the winner of the idiot of the year award goes to: > "Cheryl" jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > guess it's easier to lie and post libelous claims against someone than to take > time to see whether the (false) claims are accurate. Cheryl is one of the most supportive people on this group. You on the other hand, based on your previous postings as "NYWriter" and now, are not. You have been extremely rude to several posters on the group, including me. If you somehow wanted a "fresh start" on the group, you're blowing it, big time. Karen M user@accountcom ???? scribbles >....You.....based on your previous >postings as "NYWriter" and now, >are not. You have been extremely >rude to several posters on the >group, including me. If you >somehow wanted a "fresh start" on >the group, you're >blowing it, big time. You don't let the facts get in the way in your posts. Why is that? If you see fit to not accept my statement that I lost NY Writer because AOL would NOT allow me to transfer that ID when I was given 12-month free service, I strongly suggest you take your misguided stand and call AOL AND Gateway to confirm their policies. I will gladly provide the purchase date and when I started the 12 months of free service. For the record, it become a real chore to attempt to replace an ID..many are taken. Also, you saw fit to ignore that AOL offers multiple screen names to each account. That doesn't mean a user is trolling. Only those who use screen names to hide behind would accuse someone of doing just that. In additon, I have posted a significant number of supportive responses to other posts. It's easy to dismiss that information in a misguided/questionable effort to target someone. > Karen M > user@accountcom ???? [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > posts. It's easy to dismiss that information in a misguided/questionable effort > to target someone. Did I say you were trolling? No, I didn't. I did not catch why you changed your posting name, and wasn't going to assume why. That's why I said *if* you were hoping to get a fresh start. Now I know why you did. Don't put words in my mouth. By the way, nice job mincing my words up. What I said was this: "Cheryl is one of the most supportive people on this group. You on the other hand, based on your previous postings as "NYWriter" and now, are not." I was referring to your history as a poster, which did not begin with you posting as 'Luvskats00'. Many of us remember you from your 'NYWriter' days, and from the looks of it, you haven't changed much, have you? Yes, you did post supportive responses, you also posted some really rude ones to people who did nothing to provoke it. >>> jlhshadow@hotmail.com >>> spits out [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > are > "morphing." Why the hell should someone use the same name anyway? If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand the answer. > You are starting to sound like a real a.shole, Cheryl. I certainly can be. > Nobody likes a netdick. > > Except maybe the Burnores. Heh. Figures you know about them. jlgshadow@hotmail.com confirms the low IQ by responding to >"Don't ever let the facts get in the >way of things that come out of your >mouth" by asking >>"WTF does that mean?" You need to include "what the f*ck" in your inquiry? How very classless of you. My statement means that I explained the facts for the various screen names. It's common knowledge that aol subscribers have the option of using various screen names. There is nothing sinister about it. If I issued a denial, you'd have cause to go further with your accusations. Your character is obviously flawed. Go back to crushing bricks on your forhead and stop trolling. > > "Cheryl" jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com > > drools & spits.. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Hmmm.. stinks of morphing to me. So what? >> "Cheryl" jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com >> drools & spits.. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Hmmm.. stinks of morphing to me. LOL! >>"A few google searches confirmed >it. This one is classic. Probably >>the one that started you morphing >your name..." > > The message was a response to someone (one of hundreds) who had posted about >the death of their cat who was allowed to roam outside. Huh? No, it wasn't. The message was a response to a post about someone's cat who had stayed out all night--not a cat that was killed. The cat lives in the UK--where most cats are allowed outdoors. It was posted in a very amiable and friendly newsgroup, where you saw fit to butt in and slam the poster when you had no idea what you were talking about. You never post there, you don't know the people there, and wham bang....you blow in just to flame some very nice people. It was indescribably rude. How difficult is it >(for a present/future cat owner/guardian) to determine the danger level of >the >environment outside the home? Not as difficult as it must have been for you, when you determined from thousands of miles away that this person's environment was unsafe. I appreciate the fact that you are an indoor proponent. I don't disagree with that point; *some* areas are unsafe for cats. Sherry Sherry sriddles@aol.com writes >I appreciate the fact that you are >an indoor proponent. I don't >disagree with >that point; *some* areas are >unsafe for cats. Sherry...I know it's a common belief in the UK to allow cats to roam. What are the statistics there - in the UK at large - regarding the percentage of cats who ARE allowed to roam who get killed due to, say: cars, human & animal predators, and toxic substances? Let us know. >>I appreciate the fact that you are >an indoor proponent. I don't >disagree >with [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >who ARE allowed to roam who get killed due to, say: cars, human & animal >predators, and toxic substances? Let us know. At the risk of letting you turn this into an even bigger pissing contest, all I'll say is, I don't presume to know the ''percentages" of cats that are killed in the UK. You don't either. You don't even know which area *of* the UK the poster you attacked lived in. I would assume, since the poster is a long-time time cat lover and I've been reading about Waffles for years, that he's very well taken care of. You, onthe other hand, somehow found a reason to attack the poster. So I assume you have some information the rest of us don't. How is it that you assume *when* and *where* it's safe for a cat to go outdoors from thousands of miles away? Sherry sriddles@aol.comkitty (Sherry ) writes >At the risk of letting you turn this into an even bigger pissing contest, all >I'll say is, I don't presume to know the ''percentages" of cats that are [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >that you assume *when* and *where* it's safe for a cat to go outdoors from >thousands of miles away? I presume that your are debating whether or not pet cats are hit by cars. I can confidently say that I haven't come across any report where a car ran over a cat while the cat was inside the house. I did put in a request for some statistical information...whether the RSPCA will comply is yet to be determined. It appears that you are implying that cats can: read street signs, tell the difference between red & green traffic lights, carry guns, bats and grenades to fend off dogs/animal/human predators and have understood consumer warnings against drinking leaking antifreeze/coolant or eating poison and dying in a horrible, painful way. Here is some info from a Google search 1)what is happening to animals in Greece in order for them to clean up the streets in preparation for the 2004 Olympic Games. Both stray animals and even pets are being tortured, abused, and killed there..... 2) According to the Australian RSPCA, people often did not bother looking for a lost cat, assuming it had either eloped or been run over....The Council claims it lacks the manpower to hold onto the cats in case the owners show up, giving any cat-haters licence to dispose of somebody's pet, knowing that the owner has no way of retrieving it. >I presume that your are debating whether or not pet cats are hit by cars. No. I am debating whether or not *you* have the right to slam another poster for letting their cats out. You don't. (snipped) It appears that you are implying that cats can: read street >signs, >tell the difference between red & green traffic lights, carry guns, bats and >grenades to fend off dogs/animal/human predators and have understood consumer >warnings against drinking leaking antifreeze/coolant or eating poison and >dying >in a horrible, painful way. Where did I imply that? Find the post and re-paste it, please. What I *am* implying, is that you don't know squat about how other people live. My cats go outdoors. I am *blessed* to live in an area that is relatively risk-free--but I *do* trade human convenience to live here. Your anecdotes about guns, dogs, nei |
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