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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / November 2003

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feed Nutro?

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Tamara - 10 Nov 2003 21:13 GMT
Thanks for your inquiry about taurine and cardiomyopathy (DCM).
Taurine is essential for a healthy heart and Nutro is on the forefront
of current taurine research.

The Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association (JAVMA)
recently published the results of a UC Davis study begun in 1997 and
completed in 2001 that was based on a twelve-dog sample over a
four-year period. The study theorized that feeding certain diets may
lead to low blood concentrations of taurine, which may in turn lead to
DCM in some small number of dogs. Because the UC Davis study involved
some Nutro products, mainly due to our enormous market share in the UC
Davis marketplace, the article may convey the impression to a casual
reader that feeding Nutro's lamb meal and rice products leads to
taurine deficiency. This was not stated in the article and is simply
not true. The UC Davis team has subsequently stated that " this is a
genetic and environmental issue and we need to do more research on the
effect of diet."

The report did correctly state that one of the manufacturers of the
pet foods sited had subsequently added taurine to its product. That
manufacturer was Nutro. Nutro's nutritionists, along with UC Davis,
have conducted intensive research over the past several years on
taurine metabolism in dogs. As a result, Nutro has determined the
optimal amounts of dietary taurine necessary to produce blood and
plasma taurine concentrations well within the levels recommended by UC
Davis. Nutro's foods contain more than this amount.

The article printed in JAVMA is old news. Beginning in 2001, and
continuing today, all of Nutro's Natural Choice products have been
enriched with added, extra taurine to provide insurance to even the
very small number of dogs that may be predisposed to DCM (less than
0.5%). As you can see by the enclosed chart, Natural Choice Lamb Meal
& Rice contains more taurine than other competitive brands. In fact,
as much as 180% more.

Nutro is committed to using the best ingredients to make the best pet
foods. Our products are formulated based on the latest research and
scientific findings regarding dog and cat nutrition. We continually
enhance our foods to insure the health and well being of our
consumers' pets. When we say Natural Choice is THE BEST DOG FOOD IN
THE WORLD we mean it. And you can be absolutely confident that by
feeding Nutro's pet foods you are providing the very best nutrition
available today for your loving pet.

If you have additional questions or desire additional information
please feel free to contact us at 1-800-833-5330 or at
www.nutroproducts.com. Thank you again for your inquiry
Joe Canuck - 10 Nov 2003 21:31 GMT
> Thanks for your inquiry about taurine and cardiomyopathy (DCM).
> Taurine is essential for a healthy heart and Nutro is on the forefront
> of current taurine research.

<snip>

I didn't inquire, but since you seem to be a representative of Nutro
given your email address perhaps you can share with us the dry matter
analysis % of the following Nutro product:

"Natural Choice Complete Care Adult" (dry)

Please don't respond with a "canned" answer, thank you.

Well folks, looks like the pet food companies do pay attention. I
verified the email addy, it is valid.

Signature

"Its the bugs that keep it running."
                                     -Joe Canuck

Joe Canuck - 10 Nov 2003 21:36 GMT
Perhaps you could also confirm, deny and elaborate on the following as well:

Does Nutro no long do feeding trials of the cat food products?

Does Nutro now formulate cat food based on least-cost methods?

Why was the proximate analysis of the Nutro foods remove from the
website a while back?

These have been rumours circulating in the newsgroup for a long while
now. You have the opportunity now to perhaps correct this information as
you did with the JAVMA study.

Signature

"Its the bugs that keep it running."
                                     -Joe Canuck

Phil P. - 10 Nov 2003 22:16 GMT
> Perhaps you could also confirm, deny and elaborate on the following as well:
>
> Does Nutro no long do feeding trials of the cat food products?

That's not a rumor, Joe.  The label statement on Nutro products "....is
formulated to meet the nutritional levels estab?lished by the AAFCO Cat Food
Nutrient Profiles for... " means feeding trials were not used to assure
nutritional adequacy (and digestibility) of the diet.

A food that bears the the label statement "Animal feeding tests using AAFCO
procedures substantiate that...."  .indicates that feeding trials were used.

> Does Nutro now formulate cat food based on least-cost methods?
>
> Why was the proximate analysis of the Nutro foods remove from the
> website a while back?

I think the above two are probably related.  Nutro can't very well publish
proximate analyses of their diets if the nutritional values of their diets
vary from batch to batch.  Still, I'd like to see their answer...

Phil
Joe Canuck - 11 Nov 2003 01:08 GMT
>>Perhaps you could also confirm, deny and elaborate on the following as
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Phil

Good points, different wording which most of us just glance over without
much thought.

I'm a former Nutro customer as well, and I'm not holding my breathe for
answers here but I thought I would provide the opportunity for Nutro to
provide some answers for us.

I've noted with some interest the wording on a bag of California Natural
Chicken & Rice the following text:

"California Naural Chicken & Rice Cat Food is formulated to meet the
nutritional levels established by the AAFCO (American Association of
Feed Control Officials) Cat Food Nutrient Profiles for all life stages."

This now tell me two things: That California Natural is not testing via
a feed trial and that it meets the higher growth AAFCO standards for
growth & reproduction. In other words queens & kittens. It is basically
a one size fits all formulation.

Signature

"Its the bugs that keep it running."
                                     -Joe Canuck

Phil P. - 10 Nov 2003 22:14 GMT
> Nutro is committed to using the best ingredients

How do you manage that feat using least cost formulation where the quality
of ingredients fluctuates from batch to batch with ingredient prices?

> Our products are formulated based on the latest research and
> scientific findings

..by other pet food manufacturers...  What good is the science if you use
"least cost formulation" where every new batch is a crap shoot and a mystery
stew?

We continually
> enhance our foods

Can't tell....you no longer publish the proximate analyses of your diets on
your website...

> And you can be absolutely confident that

...Nutro isn't the same food upon which your reputation was built years ago.

Phil (former diehard Nutro customer)
Steve Crane - 12 Nov 2003 14:55 GMT
"Phil P." <phil@maxshouse.com> wrote in message news:<qv-dnXbXV8pDky2iRVn-

It's interesting that Nutro mailed out a four page letter to nearly
every vet in the country making similar claims as Tamarra did above.
The interesting part was it was signed by a Cathy Machlik Ph.D. No
veterinarian listed anywhere, and when you do a Google on Dr. Machlik
you find she hasn't published anything. Research from Nutro - Sounds
like a great definition of an oxymoron to me.
GAUBSTER2 - 10 Nov 2003 22:45 GMT
>From: tcerven@nutroproducts.com  (Tamara)

>Taurine is essential for a healthy heart and Nutro is on the forefront
>of current taurine research.

With all due respect here, what current research would that be?  I'm not aware
that Nutro conducts any research other than in-house palatability tests?

>Nutro is committed to using the best ingredients to make the best pet
>foods.

Shouldn't your company be more concerned w/ limiting nutrient excesses that are
risk factors for many diseases in animals instead of being worried about what
ingredients sound good to people?

>Our products are formulated based on the latest research and
>scientific findings regarding dog and cat nutrition.

Is this research conducted by your company or somebody else?

> When we say Natural Choice is THE BEST DOG FOOD IN
>THE WORLD we mean it.

I'm sure your company believes that, but why the high phosphorus and calcium
levels in your products?

>And you can be absolutely confident that by
>feeding Nutro's pet foods you are providing the very best nutrition
>available today for your loving pet.

I don't think so...your company is more worried about what ingredients are used
instead of the nutrient levels provided by those foods.
Paulette - 11 Nov 2003 01:44 GMT
Why quote a study on DOGS ,when these are cat owners on this group?
Forgive my ignorance.
Joe Canuck - 11 Nov 2003 02:02 GMT
> Why quote a study on DOGS ,when these are cat owners on this group?
> Forgive my ignorance.

Because Nutro also produces cat food. If they are not up to par in one
area, then it is reasonable to expect they may not be up to par in other
areas as well.

Signature

"Its the bugs that keep it running."
                                     -Joe Canuck

Steve Crane - 11 Nov 2003 15:28 GMT
> The article printed in JAVMA is old news. Beginning in 2001, and
> continuing today, all of Nutro's Natural Choice products have been
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> & Rice contains more taurine than other competitive brands. In fact,
> as much as 180% more.

Perhaps you could let us know when you made the changes to Nutro
Natural Choice Senior and Lite? Product still in the stores does not
yet show the addition of taurine to the ingredient label, yet your web
site shows taurine added. Is this a fairly recent change to these two
products?
KellyH - 12 Nov 2003 22:58 GMT
> Perhaps you could let us know when you made the changes to Nutro
> Natural Choice Senior and Lite? Product still in the stores does not
> yet show the addition of taurine to the ingredient label, yet your web
> site shows taurine added. Is this a fairly recent change to these two
> products?

Oh great.. now Nutro's a bad cat food.  I have been feeding my cats Nutro
Natural Choice Lite for the past several months, and all has appeared to be
well.  No funky stools, Bartleby hasn't had any UTI's, all the cats like it.
How does this new formula of Nutro affect urinary tract health?  That is one
of my main concerns.  I need a cat food that will promote good urinary tract
health, preferably a light formula, two of my cats need to to lose weight,
and also promote good dental health.  I thought I had found that with the
Natural Choice Lite.  I'm not adverse to mixing two foods together, as long
as they don't counteract each other.
I also feed one small can of Wellness a day, split between 5 cats, as a
treat, and also to give Bartleby more moisture in his diet.
Signature

-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
Check out www.snittens.com

GAUBSTER2 - 13 Nov 2003 15:18 GMT
>From: "KellyH" Kelly@whatever.com

>Oh great.. now Nutro's a bad cat food.

>  I need a cat food that will promote good urinary tract
>health, preferably a light formula, two of my cats need to to lose weight,
>and also promote good dental health.  I thought I had found that with the
>Natural Choice Lite.

Kelly, a couple of things....what is the kcal of Nutro "lite"?  Does it say
anywhere on the bag?  A true LIGHT cat food should have less than 3,250 kcal in
order to be called a LIGHT food.  It used to be that foods would call
themselves "lite" or something else when they didn't meet the LIGHT standards.
As for dental health, the only foods that will really positively impact dental
health are foods that carry the VOHC seal.  Hill's makes 2 diets that meet this
standard (a prescription diet and Science Diet Oral Care).  As for urinary
tract health, it used to be that the Nutro products acidified a cat's urinary
pH output to the point where it was possible to drop below the 6.2-6.4 range
which is considered "normal" in a healthy cat.  Just some points to consider.
Steve G - 13 Nov 2003 23:57 GMT
(...)

> Kelly, a couple of things....what is the kcal of Nutro "lite"?  Does it say
> anywhere on the bag?  A true LIGHT cat food should have less than 3,250 kcal
> in order to be called a LIGHT food.  

3,250kcal per .... ?

> As for dental health, the only foods that will really positively impact
> dental health are foods that carry the VOHC seal.  

Not quite. Foods that carry the VOHC seal have been shown to have a
positive impact on dental health. Foods that do not carry this seal
could be useful for dental health, but they have not submitted to the
VOHC protocols. An example of this is the Iams Dental Diet products
(all Iams dry foods AFAIK). These foods claim a reduction in the rate
of tartar buildup of up to 40%. However, these foods are not yet VOHC
approved, although perhaps they will be in the future.

> Hill's makes 2 diets that meet this
> standard (a prescription diet and Science Diet Oral Care).  

t/d is the Hills prescription product, and it is somewhat low in
calorie density. This may be of interest.

Another VOHC approved food is the Friskies Dental Diet. It also seems
that Iams dry would fit the bill for dental health stuff, even though
it has not yet passed VOHC protocols.

Steve.
GAUBSTER2 - 14 Nov 2003 02:27 GMT
>> Kelly, a couple of things....what is the kcal of Nutro "lite"?  Does it say
>> anywhere on the bag?  A true LIGHT cat food should have less than 3,250
>kcal
>> in order to be called a LIGHT food.  
>
>3,250kcal per .... ?

3250 kcal per kilo of food fed.

>> As for dental health, the only foods that will really positively impact
>> dental health are foods that carry the VOHC seal.  
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>(all Iams dry foods AFAIK). These foods claim a reduction in the rate
>of tartar buildup of up to 40%.

Studies comparing Eukanuba (an IAMS product) to Dog Chow for tartar reduction
saw Dog Chow beat Eukanuba!!  I don't remember the %s.  So, Eukanuba is LESS
efficaious for dental health than Dog Chow is.  I highly doubt that any of the
IAMS products will pass the stringent critieria that comes w/ VOHC testing, but
we'll have to see.  Perhaps Steve Crane knows more about this?

>Another VOHC approved food is the Friskies Dental Diet.

Yes, that is correct but I think the Friskies products are all very high in
salt and phosphorus.

>It also seems
>that Iams dry would fit the bill for dental health stuff, even though
>it has not yet passed VOHC protocols.

Well, until it does, it really can't be recommended for "dental health", now
can it?
KellyH - 14 Nov 2003 13:13 GMT
> >> Kelly, a couple of things....what is the kcal of Nutro "lite"?  Does it say
> >> anywhere on the bag?  A true LIGHT cat food should have less than 3,250
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> 3250 kcal per kilo of food fed.

I looked all over the bag and can't find any kcal info.  I have to correct
myself.  It's not "lite" it's "Weight Management", which claims to be "30%
less fat than our regular formula".
Here's the nutritional info from Nutro's website:
http://www.nutroproducts.com/nccatweight.asp

I was mixing in the Science Diet Oral Care, but then someone told me I was
counter-acting the weight management qualities of the Nutro, although the
ratio of the mix was like 1:4.
Signature

-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
Check out www.snittens.com

GAUBSTER2 - 14 Nov 2003 15:38 GMT
>I looked all over the bag and can't find any kcal info.  I have to correct
>myself.  It's not "lite" it's "Weight Management", which claims to be "30%
>less fat than our regular formula".

>I was mixing in the Science Diet Oral Care, but then someone told me I was
>counter-acting the weight management qualities of the Nutro, although the
>ratio of the mix was like 1:4.

It may very well contain "30% less fat than the regular formula", but that
still doesn't neccessarily make it a "light" food.  I would wager that the
Nutro doesn't have much in the way of "weight management qualities".  Has your
cat lost any weight?  Foods that don't meet the "light" requirements usually
call themselves something different that *implies* weight loss.  If your cat
doesn't seem to be achieving any meaningful weight loss, then try Science Diet
Light or you could always go w/ a Prescription Diet weight loss food.
KellyH - 14 Nov 2003 20:45 GMT
> It may very well contain "30% less fat than the regular formula", but that
> still doesn't neccessarily make it a "light" food.  I would wager that the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> doesn't seem to be achieving any meaningful weight loss, then try Science Diet
> Light or you could always go w/ a Prescription Diet weight loss food.

My 2 overweight cats have certainly NOT lost any weight.  It's not for lack
of activity, either.  I have 5 cats, and they all keep each other pretty
active.  They have lots of toys, and I play laser pointer with them a lot.
They were on Hill's w/d for a while.  I wanted to move them to a food I
could buy at a regular store, plus I want to find a good, natural
ingredients pet food. Back to the drawing board!  I was just looking at the
nutritional info for Wellness Lite cat food, and it has 3,547 Kcal/kg.
Close!

Signature

-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
Check out www.snittens.com

Karen M. - 14 Nov 2003 23:24 GMT
>>It may very well contain "30% less fat than the regular formula", but that
>>still doesn't neccessarily make it a "light" food.  I would wager that the
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> nutritional info for Wellness Lite cat food, and it has 3,547 Kcal/kg.
> Close!

Kelly, personally my cats have done great on Wellness and they love to
eat it too! :)I've never tried the lighter variety, as Audrey was losing
a *teeny* bit of weight on the regular (she also got a little more
active since I moved into my house). Let me know if you try the lighter
variety and how your kitty does. Then I'll have to build my other two a
special area that Audrey can't get into for their regular food! :)

K
Yngver - 14 Nov 2003 16:01 GMT
>I was mixing in the Science Diet Oral Care, but then someone told me I was
>counter-acting the weight management qualities of the Nutro, although the
>ratio of the mix was like 1:4.

I believe that although it's not labeled as such, the SD Oral Care does help
with weight management. At least it has helped one of our cats who was formerly
pudgy. Although there are a number of other reasons for her weight loss (she
weighed 14 lbs. in Feb. and is now down to 12 lbs 9 oz) she has been eating the
Oral Care during this time.
Karen M. - 14 Nov 2003 18:16 GMT
>>>>Kelly, a couple of things....what is the kcal of Nutro "lite"?  Does it
>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> counter-acting the weight management qualities of the Nutro, although the
> ratio of the mix was like 1:4.

Is your kitty not losing weight on it? You may want to try a wet light
food, if you cat will eat wet food, that is. :) I tried a few different
kinds of light food with my Audrey, nothing worked that well. Her
problem isn't overeating, it's lack of activity.... ;) So if you find
something that works, post it - many of us would love to know!

K
Steve G - 14 Nov 2003 16:14 GMT
(...)

> Studies comparing Eukanuba (an IAMS product) to Dog Chow for tartar reduction
> saw Dog Chow beat Eukanuba!!  

I can only comment on the literature I have seen for the Iams Daily
Dental Care (or whatever it's called) in particular. I have not yet
seen any bumph about Eukanuba products. Eukanuba <> Iams, although
they are owned by the same company.

> I don't remember the %s.  

But do you remember the cite ...?

> IAMS products will pass the stringent critieria that comes w/ VOHC testing,
> but we'll have to see.  Perhaps Steve Crane knows more about this?

Consulting the VOHC web site (http://www.vohc.org) we see that to be
approved, the diet must show a 10% reduction in plaque and/or tartar
buildup when compared with appropriate controls, over a minimum test
period. This difference must also be statistically significant. Note
also that the assessment of buildup is subjective.

Given that the Iams blurb claims a 40% reduction, it seems quite
possible that they could meet the above requirements. If I were a
betting man, I would bet that Iams will submit data to get the VOHC
seal. But I'm not. So there.

> >It also seems
> >that Iams dry would fit the bill for dental health stuff, even though
> >it has not yet passed VOHC protocols.
>
> Well, until it does, it really can't be recommended for "dental health", now
> can it?

That depends on whether you believe the 40% figure quoted in the Iams
literature. I suppose they could be lying, eh...? Maybe it's all a
conspiracy...

Steve.
Steve Crane - 14 Nov 2003 17:06 GMT
> > As for dental health, the only foods that will really positively impact
> > dental health are foods that carry the VOHC seal.  
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> of tartar buildup of up to 40%. However, these foods are not yet VOHC
> approved, although perhaps they will be in the future.

Iams has successfully passed VOHC for TARTAR ONLY for two foods only.

http://www.vohc.org/
click on "currently accepted products" for a complete list.

It is important to understand that tartar, while the most visible part
of oral care, is not nearly as imortant as plaque. Tartar had little
negative impact on the health of the animals gigival tissue, plaque
which eventually becomes tartar, is much more impactful on overall
health. Beyond the plaque and tartar claims will be claims regarding
gingivitis which would be the most important of any dental claims.
Prescription Diet Canine and Feline t/d both carry claims to reduce
gingivitis. Currently VOHC has no program in place to award approval
for gingivitis claims.
Steve G - 15 Nov 2003 21:02 GMT
(...)

> Iams has successfully passed VOHC for TARTAR ONLY for two foods only.

Two dog foods.

> It is important to understand that tartar, while the most visible part
> of oral care, is not nearly as imortant as plaque. Tartar had

Had?

(...)
> health. Beyond the plaque and tartar claims will be claims regarding
> gingivitis which would be the most important of any dental claims.
> Prescription Diet Canine and Feline t/d both carry claims to reduce
> gingivitis. Currently VOHC has no program in place to award approval
> for gingivitis claims.

What is the basis of the t/d gingivitis claim (i.e., do you have any
cites regarding the testing of t/d)? I also wonder, in passing, why
t/d is a prescription diet.

Must admit, what I'm most interested in regarding 'dental diets' is
how *little* one can feed, and still gain worthwhile benefits. Clearly
all such diets are tested when they are fed as the exclusive diet.

Another passing comment: Steve, I hope you got the Nutro rep's
permission before reproducing a personal email on a public
newsgroup...! Naughty, naughty?

Steve.
Steve Crane - 16 Nov 2003 02:31 GMT
> (...)
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Had?

should of been has

> (...)
> > health. Beyond the plaque and tartar claims will be claims regarding
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> cites regarding the testing of t/d)? I also wonder, in passing, why
> t/d is a prescription diet.

Studies conducted by Dr. Ellen Logan provided the basis for the
gingivitis claims. t/d is a Prescription Diet primarily because of a
single issue. It is supposed to be used POST dental cleaning because
if the tooth is already loose in the mouth, t/d has enough "grabbing
power" that it will remove very loose teeth. I would expect that most
pet owners would be a bit upset to find Fluffy's teeth on the kitchen
floor. :-(

> Must admit, what I'm most interested in regarding 'dental diets' is
> how *little* one can feed, and still gain worthwhile benefits. Clearly
> all such diets are tested when they are fed as the exclusive diet.

It's a direct linear line. 100% diet = 100% efficacy, 50%=50%, 10%=10%
You would have to define what a "worthwhile benefit" is I think. 10%,
50%, etc.
Cheryl - 16 Nov 2003 02:37 GMT
t/d is a Prescription Diet primarily because of a
> single issue. It is supposed to be used POST dental cleaning because
> if the tooth is already loose in the mouth, t/d has enough "grabbing
> power" that it will remove very loose teeth.

So in conclusion, t/d should only be prescribed if a cat has loose
teeth post-dental.
Steve Crane - 17 Nov 2003 02:45 GMT
>  t/d is a Prescription Diet primarily because of a
> > single issue. It is supposed to be used POST dental cleaning because
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> So in conclusion, t/d should only be prescribed if a cat has loose
> teeth post-dental.

It should be prescribed by the veterinarian who has made the judgment
based upon what s/he knows of the animal.
Steve G - 17 Nov 2003 15:56 GMT
(...)
> > What is the basis of the t/d gingivitis claim? (...)
>
> Studies conducted by Dr. Ellen Logan provided the basis for the
> gingivitis claims.

Would you happen to have a cite for this? Ta.

> t/d is a Prescription Diet primarily because of a
> single issue. It is supposed to be used POST dental cleaning because
> if the tooth is already loose in the mouth, t/d has enough "grabbing
> power" that it will remove very loose teeth. I would expect that most
> pet owners would be a bit upset to find Fluffy's teeth on the kitchen
> floor. :-(

Interesting, thanks. (I will mention, in passing, that at least some
vets are not checking the gnashers before allowing t/d to be used.
Mind you, if some teeth are loose, wouldn't they need to be removed
anyway? Feed t/d, cheap home dentistry, ha ha).

> > Must admit, what I'm most interested in regarding 'dental diets' is
> > how *little* one can feed, and still gain worthwhile benefits.
>
> It's a direct linear line.

Ta. A bit counterintuitive, that, mind.

> 100% diet = 100% efficacy, 50%=50%, 10%=10%
> You would have to define what a "worthwhile benefit" is I think. 10%,
> 50%, etc.

Thanks for the info. 'Worthwhile benefit' .. hm, yes .. I suppose one
could argue that any benefit is worthwhile, but I guess it's a fairly
arbitrary decision.

Steve.
Steve Crane - 18 Nov 2003 14:23 GMT
> (...)
> > > What is the basis of the t/d gingivitis claim? (...)
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Would you happen to have a cite for this? Ta.

Finney O, Logan EI, Simone AJ, et al.   Effects of diet on existing
plaque, calculus and gingivitis in dogs.   Proceedings. 10th Annual
Veterinary Dental Forum, Houston, TX, 1996: 143-146.
Synopsis: The principal objective of this study was to investigate
effects of a dental food (Canine t/d®) on gingivitis and supragingival
plaque and calculus in dogs having not had previous oral care.
Additionally, if the food could be shown to affect existing dental
substrates and gingivitis, how quickly would such changes occur?
Thirty-six beagle dogs were used in this study. None of the animals
had had any previous oral care, nor had any been used in previous
dental studies. Baseline scores for gingival inflammation and
supragingival accumulations of plaque and calculus were obtained on
Day 0. The baseline calculus scores were used to block the animals
into feeding groups of five dogs. None of the feeding groups had
significantly different mean calculus scores. The control group was
fed Purina® Dog Chow® and the treatment group was fed Canine t/d®.
Dogs were examined at weeks 2, 3, 6, 8, 12 and 16. Results were
generally consistent with those previously obtained when the same
products were studied in a "clean-tooth" model. For every index
measured, dogs fed Canine t/d® achieved significantly improved scores
compared to the group fed the control diet. The control group showed a
significant increase in plaque and calculus accumulation over the
16-week period and no significant change in gingival inflammation.
Conversely, the test group fed Canine t/d® showed significant
decreases in gingival inflammation and in supragingival plaque and
calculus accumulations. The most surprising aspect of these results
was that significant changes were seen within two weeks when using
Canine t/d®.
Clinical Relevance: For young, adult dogs having no previous dental
care, it is possible within a matter of weeks to reduce by dietary
means alone significant amounts of plaque and calculus accumulation
and improve gingival inflammation.

Finney O, Logan EI, Simone AJ, et al.    The influence of diet on
supragingival plaque and calculus in mongrel dogs.  Proceedings.
Fourth World Veterinary Dental Congress, Vancouver, BC, Canada, 1995:
105-107.
Synopsis: This study measured the relative accumulation of
supragingival plaque and calculus in dogs over a six-month period. The
animal panel was comprised of 19 beagle and 21 mongrel dogs. Dogs were
scored for supragingival plaque and calculus accumulation on days 7,
21, 56, 84, 112, 140 and 168 after initial dental prophylaxis. During
this evaluation period, dogs were fed either a test (Canine t/d®) or
control (Purina® Dog Chow®) food. For both treatment and control
groups, plaque results obtained after one week and calculus results
obtained after three weeks were predictive of accumulation amounts
expected after 6 months.  The test food resulted in significantly less
accumulation of plaque and calculus than the control diet at all
evaluation periods.  Relationships between treatment groups evident
from the first evaluation continued throughout the entire study.

Finney O.   Dental research and product development: A project
manager's perspective.   Proceedings. Conference on Companion Animal
Oral Health, University of Kansas, Lawrence, KS, 1996: 17-22.
Synopsis: Results were summarized from a number of studies associated
with development of Canine t/d®. These included results from: 1)
dental substrate accumulation in dogs fed Canine t/d® versus dry or
canned commercial foods, 2) dental substrate accumulation in dogs fed
Canine t/d® versus dry or canned commercial foods plus treats, 3)
dental substrate accumulation in dogs fed Canine t/d® versus dry or
canned commercial foods plus toothbrushing, 4) dental substrate
accumulation over a six month period in dogs fed Canine t/d® versus
competitive products, 5) reduction in plaque accumulation and gingival
inflammation in dogs fed Canine t/d® versus a grocery brand dry dog
food, and 6) reduction in dental substrates in dogs with "dirty teeth"
fed Canine t/d®. Results were given for over 20 studies involving over
1,000 dogs. All studies confirm that Canine t/d® is effective in
reducing gingivitis and dental plaque, stain and tartar.

Jensen L, Logan E, Finney O, et al.   Reduction in accumulation of
plaque, stain and calculus in dogs by dietary means.   J Vet Dent
1995; 12: 161-163.
Synopsis: This paper summarizes the results of 215 evaluations for
plaque, stain and calculus in 120 dogs at two research sites. Dogs
were balanced in groups of five according to baseline plaque index
scores; groups were randomly assigned to treatment (Canine t/d®) or
control (Purina® Dog Chow®) dietary regimens. No other food, treats,
or snacks were given to either group. Dental cleanings were done on
Day 0. Investigators graded 22 teeth for plaque accumulation on Day 7
and for stain and calculus accumulation on Day 21. Six trials were
conducted and the results reported as a combined mean for all
treatment and control groups. Dogs fed Canine t/d® had significantly
less plaque (19% less), stain (44% less) and calculus (32% less)
accumulation than dogs fed the control food.

Logan EI, Finney O, Irvine G, et al.    Dietary influences on
gingivitis in the dog.  Proceedings. Fourth World Veterinary Congress,
Vancouver, BC, Canada, 1995: 101-102.
Synopsis: The objective of this study was to investigate effects of a
dental food (Canine t/d®) on gingival health in dogs. The study panel
included 40 healthy adult dogs. The gingival health of the dogs was
optimized using a combination of mechanical and chemical cleansing
procedures. When the dogs reached optimal gingival health the
experimental study was initiated. Each dog received a randomly
assigned food; either the test food (Canine t/d®) or a control food
(Purina Dog Chow®). Each dog was assessed for plaque accumulation and
gingival disease at days 14, 28 and 42 following starting the
appropriate food. The test food resulted in 37% and 33% (days 28 & 42)
reduction in plaque and 37% and 44% (days 28 & 42) reduction in
gingivitis when compared to the control food.

Logan EI, Finney O, Lowry SR, et al.    Dietary cleansing in dogs: The
effects of kibble size and body weight.  Proceedings. 10th Annual
Veterinary Dental Forum, Houston, TX, 1996: 138-142.
Synopsis: Numerous studies have been reported documenting the efficacy
of Canine t/d® in significantly reducing plaque and calculus
accumulation and gingival inflammation in dogs. This paper compared
results of several studies investigating effects of kibble size on
plaque and calculus accumulation in dogs of varying body weights.
Studies involved separate dental panels including: panel 1: 80 beagle
dogs (body weight range 10-20 kg); panel 2: 21 mongrel dogs and 19
beagle dogs (12-35 kg); and panel 3: 40 small breed dogs (1-9 kg). The
studies were each done using a 3-week clean-tooth model and evaluating
each dog individually for plaque and calculus accumulation at 7 and 21
days post-prophylaxis, respectively. Both the standard large kibble
and a small kibble size of Canine t/d® were used in the studies.
Results were as follows. Canine t/d® significantly reduced plaque and
calculus accumulation in dogs compared with a typical dry dog food
(Purina® Dog Chow®). The larger dental kibble provided superior dental
efficacy compared to the smaller dental kibble in dogs weighing
greater than 10 kg. The smaller dental kibble provided comparable
dental efficacy to the larger dental kibble in dogs weighing less than
10 kg.

Logan EI, Finney O.    Mechanical plaque control in the dog: A
comparison of toothbrushing and dietary cleansing.  Proceedings.
Fourth World Veterinary Dental Congress, Vancouver, BC, Canada, 1995:
98-100.
Synopsis: A population of 80 beagle and 39 toy breed dogs were
utilized to investigate the effect of Canine t/d® versus commercially
available maintenance foods plus weekly toothbrushing on the
accumulation of plaque and calculus.  All dogs received a dental
prophylaxis and the appropriate treatment regimens were begun.  Each
dog was sequentially scored for plaque (7 days post-prophylaxis) and
calculus (21 days post-prophylaxis). Results indicated that feeding
Canine t/d® was as effective as feeding Purina® Dog Chow® plus once
weekly toothbrushing in reducing accumulation of plaque and calculus
in beagle and toy breed dogs.  Feeding Canine t/d® was superior to
feeding a canned diet (Pedigree® PAL®) plus once weekly toothbrushing
in reducing accumulation of plaque and calculus in dogs.

Logan EI.    Oral cleansing by dietary means: Results of six-month
studies.  Proceedings. Conference on Companion Animal Oral Health,
University of Kansas, Lawrence, KS, 1996: 11-15.
Synopsis: The objectives of the two studies reported here were to
demonstrate that: 1) significant differences between treatment groups
detected in a short-term model remained significant and relevant over
a longer duration, and 2) significant differences in plaque
accumulation between treatment groups were relevant to gingival
health. Both studies used a 40-dog panel comprised of male and female
mongrel dogs. In Study One, all dogs received a dental prophylaxis on
day 0 and then were randomly assigned either a control food (Purina®
Dog Chow®) or a dental food (Canine t/d®).  Dogs were scored for
plaque accumulation on day 7, calculus accumulation on day 21, and
plaque and calculus accumulations were evaluated at days 56, 84, 112,
140 and 168. In Study Two, gingival health of the dogs was optimized
using a combination of mechanical and chemical cleansing procedures.
When the dogs reached optimal gingival health the experimental study
was initiated. Each dog received a randomly assigned food; either the
dental food (Canine t/d®) or a control food (Purina® Dog Chow®). Each
dog was assessed for plaque accumulation and gingival disease at days
14, 28, 42, 56, 77, 105, 140 and 175. Results showed that dogs
consuming the dental food had significantly less plaque and calculus
accumulation than dogs consuming the control food (Study 1). Dogs
consuming the dental food also had significantly less plaque
accumulation and gingival inflammation than dogs consuming the co
trol
food (Study 2).

Finney O.   Dental research and product development: A project
manager's perspective.   Proceedings. Conference on Companion Animal
Oral Health, University of Kansas, Lawrence, KS, 1996: 17-22.
Synopsis: Results were summarized from a number of studies associated
with development of Canine t/d®. These included results from: 1)
dental substrate accumulation in dogs fed Canine t/d® versus dry or
canned commercial foods, 2) dental substrate accumulation in dogs fed
Canine t/d® versus dry or canned commercial foods plus treats, 3)
dental substrate accumulation in dogs fed Canine t/d® versus dry or
canned commercial foods plus toothbrushing, 4) dental substrate
accumulation over a six month period in dogs fed Canine t/d® versus
competitive products, 5) reduction in plaque accumulation and gingival
inflammation in dogs fed Canine t/d® versus a grocery brand dry dog
food, and 6) reduction in dental substrates in dogs with "dirty teeth"
fed Canine t/d®. Results were given for over 20 studies involving over
1,000 dogs. All studies confirm that Canine t/d® is effective in
reducing gingivitis and dental plaque, stain and tartar.

Logan EI, Finney O, Lowry SR, et al.    Dietary cleansing in dogs: The
effects of kibble size and body weight.  Proceedings. 10th Annual
Veterinary Dental Forum, Houston, TX, 1996: 138-142.
Synopsis: Numerous studies have been reported documenting the efficacy
of Canine t/d® in significantly reducing plaque and calculus
accumulation and gingival inflammation in dogs. This paper compared
results of several studies investigating effects of kibble size on
plaque and calculus accumulation in dogs of varying body weights.
Studies involved separate dental panels including: panel 1: 80 beagle
dogs (body weight range 10-20 kg); panel 2: 21 mongrel dogs and 19
beagle dogs (12-35 kg); and panel 3: 40 small breed dogs (1-9 kg). The
studies were each done using a 3-week clean-tooth model and evaluating
each dog individually for plaque and calculus accumulation at 7 and 21
days post-prophylaxis, respectively. Both the standard large kibble
and a small kibble size of Canine t/d® were used in the studies.
Results were as follows. Canine t/d® significantly reduced plaque and
calculus accumulation in dogs compared with a typical dry dog food
(Purina® Dog Chow®). The larger dental kibble provided superior dental
efficacy compared to the smaller dental kibble in dogs weighing
greater than 10 kg. The smaller dental kibble provided comparable
dental efficacy to the larger dental kibble in dogs weighing less than
10 kg.

Logan EI, Berg ML, Coffman L, et al.    Dietary control of feline
gingivitis: results of a six month study (abstract).  Proceedings.
13th Annual Veterinary Dental Forum, Baltimore, MD, 1999.
Synopsis: This study compared the effects of a dental food to a
typical dry food on dental substrate accumulation and gingival
inflammation over a six month time frame. Twenty-six adult cats were
placed into two groups balanced on previous dental plaque formation.
The control group was fed Purina® Cat Chow® and the test group was fed
Feline t/d®. On Day 0, each cat was anesthetized and received a dental
prophylaxis. Beginning on Day 1, each cat received its assigned
dietary regimen for the remainder of the study. Scores for plaque and
calculus accumulation, and gingival inflammation were obtained on days
14, 28, 49, 84, 126 and 168. At 24 weeks (day 168) the test group had
48% less plaque accumulation, 64% less calculus accumulation and 27%
less gingival inflammation than the control group.

Logan EI, Boyce EN, Berg BS, et al.   Effects of dietary form on
plaque and calculus accumulation and gingival health in cats:
Methodology and results.   Proceedings. Fifth World Veterinary Dental
Congress, Birmingham, England, 1997: 28-32.
Synopsis: Five different studies were reported to demonstrate affects
of different foods (commercial cat foods and treats) on dental plaque
and calculus accumulation. In Study 1, three different specialty brand
dry cat foods were compared; there was no significant difference in
plaque and calculus accumulation. In Study 2, a moist feline specialty
food was compared to the same moist food plus a dental treat and to a
dry feline specialty brand food; there was no improvement in plaque
and calculus accumulation with the dental treat added to the moist cat
food. In Study 3, a moist grocery brand cat food was compared to a dry
grocery brand cat food and a feline dental food (Feline t/d®); plaque
and calculus accumulation was greatest in cats eating the moist food
and lowest in cat eating the dental food. In Study 4, a dry feline
grocery brand food was compared to the same dry food plus a dental
treat and to a feline dental food; there was no improvement in plaque
and calculus accumulation with the dental treat added to the dry cat
food, but consumption of the dental food resulted in significantly
less plaque and calculus accumulation. In Study 5, a dry grocery brand
cat food was compared to a feline dental food; the dental food
resulted in significantly less plaque and calculus accumulation.

Logan EI, Proctor V, Berg ML, et al.    Dietary effect on tooth
surface debris and gingival health in cats.  Proceedings. Veterinary
Dental Forum, 2001.
Synopsis: Thirty adult cats in good oral and systemic health were
placed into two groups balanced on previous plaque formation. On Day
0, each cat was anesthetized and received a dental prophylaxis
including scaling and polishing. Cats were then fed either Purina® Cat
Chow® or new, improved Feline t/d for 24 weeks. Evaluation at 24 weeks
showed that cats fed Feline t/d® had 58% less plaque accumulation, 64%
less calculus accumulation, 74% less stain accumulation and 48% less
gingival inflammation. Following week 24 evaluations, the two dietary
groups were switched so that all cats previously receiving Purina® Cat
Chow® were subsequently fed Feline t/d for 2 months and vice versa.
Cats with "dirty" teeth fed Feline t/d® demonstrated a 51% decrease in
plaque, a 55% decrease in calculus, a 64% decrease in stain and a 29%
decrease in gingivitis from weeks 24 to 32, while cats fed Purina® Cat
Chow® demonstrated a significant increase in plaque, calculus, stain
and gingivitis during the same 8 weeks. Cats fed new, improved Feline
t/d® had significantly less plaque, calculus and stain accumulation
and gingival inflammation than cats fed a typical dry cat food in a 6
month clean tooth and in a 2 month dirty tooth model. Additionally,
cats with 6 months worth of dental substrate accumulation demonstrated
increase in tooth surface debris and a significant increase in
gingivitis over a 2 month period when fed a typical dry cat food while
cats fed a dental food demonstrated a significant decrease in both
tooth surface debris and gingivitis.

Logan EI.    Oral cleansing by dietary means: Feline methodology and
study results.  Proceedings. Conference on Companion Animal Oral
Health, University of Kansas, Lawrence, KS, 1996: 31-34.
Synopsis: The objectives of these studies were to refine methodologies
used in measuring accumulation of plaque and calculus in cats and
demonstrate dietary effects on plaque and calculus accumulation in
cats. The study population included healthy adult male and female cats
weighing 3 to 6 kg. Following a dental prophylaxis, cats were fed the
test diets for four weeks and teeth were evaluated for plaque and
calculus accumulation. Four different studies were performed.  Study
One compared three foods: a canned specialty brand cat food (Science
Diet® Feline Maintenance®), the same canned food plus a dental treat
(Pounce® Tartar Control Treats), and a dry specialty brand cat food
(Science Diet® Feline Maintenance®). Study Two compared three
specialty brand dry cat foods (Science Diet® Feline Maintenance®,
Iams® Cat Food, and Purina® Pro-Plan® Adult Cat formula). Study Three
compared a dry specialty brand cat food (Science Diet® Feline
Maintenance®) to a feline dental diet (Prescription Diet® Feline
t/d®). Study Four compared a dry grocery brand cat food (Purina® Cat
Chow®) to a feline dental diet (Feline t/d®). In Study One,
consumption of the dry cat food resulted in significantly less plaque
and calculus accumulation compared to the canned cat food or the
canned cat food plus a dental treat. In Study Two, there was no
significant difference between the different dry specialty cat foods
with respect to plaque and calculus accumulation. In Study Three,
there was significant reduction in accumulation of plaque and calculus
in cats consuming the dental diet versus the dry specialty brand cat
food. And in Study Four, there was significant reduction in
accumulation of plaque and calculus in cats consuming the dental diet
versus the dry grocery brand cat food.

Logan EI.    Reduction in accumulation of supragingival plaque in
cats: Prescription Diet Feline t/d vs. Purina Cat Chow.  Veterinary
Oral Health Council application, May 1, 1998.
Synopsis: Two studies were performed using 29 and 30 adult cats. The
cats in each study were placed into two groups balanced on previous
plaque formation. The control groups were fed a dry grocery brand cat
food (Purina® Cat Chow®) and test groups were fed Feline t/d®. On Day
0 of each study, each cat was anesthetized and received a dental
prophylaxis. Beginning on Day 1, each cat received its dietary regimen
for the remainder of the study. Plaque scores were obtained on day 28
of each study. Cats eating Feline t/d® had 41% and 35% reduction in
plaque scores compared with those eating the control food.
Clinical Relevance: Feline t/d® significantly reduces accumulation of
dental plaque compared to Purina® Cat Chow®. Feline t/d® has been
accepted by the Veterinary Oral Health Council (VOHC) for helping
control dental plaque in cats. This was the first feline product to
receive the VOHC seal.

Logan EI.    Reduction in accumulation of supragingival calculus in
cats: Prescription Diet Feline t/d vs. Purina Cat Chow.  Veterinary
Oral Health Council application, May 1, 1998.
Synopsis: Two studies were performed using 29 and 30 adult cats. The
cats in each study were placed into two groups balanced on previous
plaque formation. The control groups were fed a dry grocery brand cat
food (Purina® Cat Chow®) and test groups were fed Feline t/d®. On Day
0 of each study, each cat was anesthetized and received a dental
prophylaxis. Beginning on Day 1, each cat received its dietary regimen
for the remainder of the study. Calculus scores were obtained on day
28 of each study. Cats eating Feline t/d® had 48% and 33% reduction in
calculus scores compared with those eating the control food.
Steve G - 19 Nov 2003 00:57 GMT
(...)

> > Would you happen to have a cite for this? Ta.

Taverymuch.

Mind you, dunno what was with all those d-animal cites.

Also, 'twould seem that the cites are mostly conference proceedings
and thus somewhat difficult to get hold of (and probably only
sketchily refereed).

Still, never look a gift cat in the gob, as I might say if I was
feeling ambitious.

Steve.
Steve Crane - 15 Nov 2003 13:46 GMT
> > The article printed in JAVMA is old news. Beginning in 2001, and
> > continuing today, all of Nutro's Natural Choice products have been
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> site shows taurine added. Is this a fairly recent change to these two
> products?

As everyone noted we didn't get a response to the NG for the above
question. Tamara was kind enough to respond to a personal email I sent
her. It was interesting to note that in the email Nutro admits that
they only recently bothered to add taurine to 2 of the 3 products that
were named in the article. In other words even though they knew they
had a problem at least as far back as 2000, they didn't do anything
about it until late this summer, just before the publication of the
article hit the press. It would be my opinion that they knew about
this as far back as 1999 and waited two years to add taurine to the
Nutro Natural Choice product and another three years to add taurine to
the other two products. At least they made the changes. The other two
companies Nature's Recipe and Sensible Choice STILL don't show added
taurine today. IAMS, Purina and Hill's all made changes in early 1997,
as soon as the information was known, some 6 years before Nutro
finished changing all the products indicated in the problem.

Original Message -----
From: Tamara Cerven
To: 'STEVE CRANE'
Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 1:16 PM
Subject: RE: news group posting

Steve,
Thank you for your inquiry.  We began adding Taurine to the Natural
Choice Senior and Lite foods this past summer.  The bags have been
changed to reflect the new levels (1000 ppm) and you should see them
on the shelf as early as Nov. 15.
 
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