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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / November 2003Tragic Mistake
Unbelievably, my friend took two eight-month-old rescue sister tabbies in to a Central Florida vet to be spayed, and when she returned for her babies they had declawed one of them. The vet called tonight and told her he will do "whatever it takes" to make this up to her. All she can do is cry. Ideas? I thought maybe make his give a ton of money to a no-kill shelter--or, she gets a lawyer and donates any funds collected. She is heartsick as am I. These girls are inseparable, and now one of them is mutilated forever. (And you can bet I will be letting all and everyone know the name of this vet if he doesn't come through in a big way. Or maybe even if he does.) > Unbelievably, my friend took two eight-month-old rescue sister > tabbies in to a Central Florida vet to be spayed, and when she [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > and everyone know the name of this vet if he doesn't come through > in a big way. Or maybe even if he does.) This is criminal and should be reported. In Maryland the place to make veterinary complaints is the Dept of Agriculture. Yesterday when I had Shamrock in for his dental I asked them to also clip his claws and I had awful thoughts of them misunderstanding me and declawing him. I guess I've read this same story on the groups a few times. I wonder why they only did one and not both? >> Unbelievably, my friend took two eight-month-old rescue sister >> tabbies in to a Central Florida vet to be spayed, and when she [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > him. I guess I've read this same story on the groups a few times. I > wonder why they only did one and not both? Most likely realized that it was a mistake. I would require that to make it up to me the vet provide pamphlets on declawing in the waiting room and stop by out of the blue to make sure they carry it out. Phil has a pdf that can be printed out on his site at maxshouse.com. Karen > Most likely realized that it was a mistake. I would require that to make it > up to me the vet provide pamphlets on declawing in the waiting room and stop > by out of the blue to make sure they carry it out. Phil has a pdf that can > be printed out on his site at maxshouse.com. > > Karen That's what I was thinking, too, except I might request that the vet no longer declaw cats, as well, and should also educate his clients of the negative aspects of declawing. Providing a pamphlet is one method, but speaking directly to people is another and one that is much more direct. But I think I would probably first ask the vet what he felt would be adequate compensation. I don't mean in terms of money, but what he felt he should do to make up for the mistake. Sometimes it's very effective to have the guilty party determine his own punishment--he can be much harsher than anyone else. And he probably feels worse about the situation than anyone else, including the owner of the cat. I don't think money (suing or asking for monetary compensation) is really going to help. But asking him to advocate against declawing would have a much more beneficial outcome. I'm not sure I would lodge a formal complaint at this stage. I would try to find out if any similar complaints had been made about him, though. I'm starting to think everyone should check if their vets have had complaints lodged against them. I wonder if that information is available to the public. Oh, I also think that the vet should be willing to cover any future problems the cat may have that could be related to the declawing. For example, if the cat starts peeing inappropriately, then the vet should cover the costs of Feliway or possibly even the costs of new carpet. rona  Signature***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!*** > That's what I was thinking, too, except I might request that the vet no > longer declaw cats, as well, and should also educate his clients of the > negative aspects of declawing. Providing a pamphlet is one method, but > speaking directly to people is another and one that is much more direct. Hmm, how's that for redundancy? It was supposed to be "speaking directly to people in another and one that is much more *powerful*." Sigh! rona Signature***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!*** >>Most likely realized that it was a mistake. I would require that to make > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > rona Hey Rona, was it you a few posts & weeks back who posted something about not being able to get any information from IAMS about the nutrient levels in their foods? I have a request into them right now... I'm waiting to see if they respond and with what information. I'll let you know what the results are if any. I'm thinking they may ignore me since I was quite specific with what I was looking for. DMB % analysis. Signature"Its the bugs that keep it running." -Joe Canuck > Hey Rona, was it you a few posts & weeks back who posted something about > not being able to get any information from IAMS about the nutrient [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > are if any. I'm thinking they may ignore me since I was quite specific > with what I was looking for. DMB % analysis. It might have been. I remember writing to one company about DMB% analysis and being told they didn't have those numbers and would only give me some other numbers. I just checked my old e-mails and it was IAMS. I had asked for DMB% for phosporus in their canned foods and they said the nutrient density method is "well accepted" and to some degree, implied it was more advanced than DMB%. It seems that nutrient density numbers are all they would give out. Oh, they wanted me to call them to get the numbers, rather than send them via e-mail. I don't think I bothered to follow-up, since I didn't have the background to explain why I was insisting on DMB%. I hope you have better luck than I did! Thanks for remembering my post! rona Signature***For e-mail, replace .com with .ca Sorry for the inconvenience!*** (...) > I just checked my old e-mails and it was IAMS. I had asked for DMB% for > phosporus in their canned foods and they said the nutrient density method is [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > e-mail. I don't think I bothered to follow-up, since I didn't have the > background to explain why I was insisting on DMB%. It could be argued that the nutrient density method is better. But it doesn't matter in what form you get the data ... because you can convert easily between nutrient density, and %DMB (well, as long as you know the percent water in the food as fed, and the no of cals in some given weight of the food). Steve. "Cheryl" <jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com> wrote in message > This is criminal and should be reported. In Maryland the place to > make veterinary complaints is the Dept of Agriculture. Yesterday when > I had Shamrock in for his dental I asked them to also clip his claws > and I had awful thoughts of them misunderstanding me and declawing > him. I guess I've read this same story on the groups a few times. I > wonder why they only did one and not both? Cheryl--they both had collars on with their names. When my friend picked them up she did not look in the carriers. It was on the way home when she did that she saw that instead of her one little girl tabby she had a big silver tabby male. Yet he was wearing her collar. She took him back to the vet, they had her go back and identify her cat, and made the discovery. The vet said the collars are taken off before surgery. If it really is criminal, how should she proceed? > "Cheryl" <jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > are taken off before surgery. If it really is criminal, how should > she proceed? They gave her the wrong cat? This sounds like the result of a very unorganized clinic. Did the other owner realize their cat went home with your friend? As for how to proceed, I don't know. I only got as far as looking into how to, but never followed through. I should have. My Shadow was infected with FeLV through a blood transfusion in addition to other complications due to an either hurried, or inept vet. That's as far as I got. Long story. I'm so sorry for your friend. :( > > "Cheryl" <jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com> wrote in message > >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > They gave her the wrong cat? This sounds like the result of a very > unorganized clinic. > I agree (lack of organization)! It was bad enough to read that a cat had been declawed when that had not been ordered. But now to read that each cat had a collar on with names, the collars were removed, the wrong procedure performed, and the wrong cat sent home with the wrong person!!!! How many mistakes can they make? It almost sounds like they prepped several cats at a time in the same room, which could explain how they mixed up the cats after removing the collars. What an outrage. MaryL << But now to read that each cat had a collar on with names, the collars were removed, the wrong procedure performed, and the wrong cat sent home with the wrong person!!!! How many mistakes can they make? It almost sounds like they prepped several cats at a time in the same room, which could explain how they mixed up the cats after removing the collars. What an outrage. MaryL >> It is very sad and also sad that the big silver tabby, apparently, was the one intended to be declawed and now he will still have to go through that and the vet, no doubt, will do it for free to make up to his owner for not doing it right the first time. Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace "One does not meet oneself until one catches the reflection from an eye other than human." (Loren Eisely) "Cheryl" > > They gave her the wrong cat? This sounds like the result of a very > unorganized clinic. Yes--to say the least. And a solid reminder of what being disorganized can do in such a setting. > Did the other owner realize their cat went home > with your friend? We were talking about that this morning, and we don't know. I wonder what they did to him, and since he was male, why someone didn't wonder why the order was that he be "spayed." My friend said he is lovely silver tabby. Hope they didn't neuter the cat against the other owner's wishes. As for how to proceed, I don't know. I only got as > far as looking into how to, but never followed through. I should > have. My Shadow was infected with FeLV through a blood transfusion in > addition to other complications due to an either hurried, or inept > vet. That's as far as I got. Long story. I'm so sorry for your > friend. :( Poor Shadow, that really is tragic. Thanks for your thoughts. > "Cheryl" <jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com> wrote in message ... > I > > wonder why they only did one and not both? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > home when she did that she saw that instead of her one little girl > tabby she had a big silver tabby male. ...> Mary, I think your friend needs to check on what the order was for her cat and if the order included both a spay and a declaw. In that case, the vet's mistake would have a lot to do with whoever wrote down the order. If he got the cats mixed up because they did not have their collars, it seems that he would still know the difference between a male and female cat and would not have done the declaw on the female cat unless both procedures were on the order. This, of course, does not excuse this mistake, but may help to explain how it happened. It also indicates poor office procedures and a vet and office staff who do not take the time to get to know his patients and their people. I think that he certainly should have to answer to whatever authorities regulate vets in that area. I suppose that chopping off his fingers at the first joint would be out of the question. Annie I suppose that chopping off his fingers at the > first joint would be out of the question. > Annie Yeah, I suppose that would be a bit much ... but it would probably ensure that he would not declaw any other defenseless cats. MaryL > I suppose that chopping off his fingers at the > first joint would be out of the question. > Annie hee! I think so. Mary, I'm sorry to hear about this situation. Moreover, in the state of Florida, all veterinary complaints have to be directed to the Department of Business and Professional Regulation. I'll post the link at the bottom of this post. There is an online protocol that your friend can follow to file a complaint electronically, or if she prefer, she can download and print out the necessary forms to file a complaint. Veterinary malpractice, incompetence and negligence are not extremely common in the state of Florida. Nonetheless, something should be done. There are several steps you can take when you suspect that veterinary malpractice has happened. First, send a concise, accurate, and factual written complaint (what happened, when, and where) to your state veterinary licensing board, asking for an investigation and response. Follow up your written complaint by telephoning the licensing board. You should also submit a complaint to your local veterinary medical association, asking for an investigation. File copies of your complaints with the Better Business Bureau, local and state Consumer Affairs offices. You can also file a small claims suit against the veterinarian by filling out a form and paying a small fee at your local courthouse. You are responsible for presenting your own case in small claims court, so be sure to have copies of all your animal's medical records, statements from other veterinarians who examined your animal once you suspected negligence, and copies of your veterinary bills. Although small claims courts award only "out-of-pocket" expenses, the attention generated by your case may be enough to prevent a veterinarian from acting irresponsibly in the future. You can also hire a lawyer and bring a malpractice lawsuit against the veterinarian or negotiate a settlement. As with a small claims suit, you will need documentation to back up your case, including statements from "expert witnesses" (such as veterinarians, pathologists, and others with special professional knowledge of the issues under consideration) this is extremely expensive and usually not easy for the average person to obtain. Unfortunately, you may find that many lawyers hesitate to take on these cases because the potential for a large monetary award is extremely low. In most veterinary malpractice cases, awards are limited to the costs incurred, plus the cost of replacing a companion animal with an animal of similar value. Some state courts, however, are beginning to acknowledge the unique nature of the bond shared by humans and their companion animals, and these courts also permit the recovery of "reasonable sentimental value" in some instances. California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, and New Jersey are among the states where recent veterinary negligence cases prompted judges and juries to assess the value of companion animals beyond their "property value." Moreover, since your friend rescued the two kittens, if the she goes through the motion of hiring an attorney and the case is heard before a judge, and the judge decides in her favor, she will receive what the state deems is the average price of a rescued cat. Nonetheless, there hasn't been a case that anyone in the above states has been granted over two thousand dollars regardless of the damages incurred. To find an attorney, ask for a recommendation from the local bar association. I hope this helps. Here is the link to file a complaint in the state of Florida. http://www.state.fl.us/dbpr/reg/index.shtml#GENERAL%20INFORMATION > Mary, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > prefer, she can download and print out the necessary forms to file a > complaint. The really sad thing is that he is a very nice man. He told her yesterday that someone would be fired because of what was done to her cat. He actually did the operation, but the wrong kitty was selected by an aide. He didn't recognize my friend's cat because Tabbies look so much alike. I told her about your recommendations this morning. She is better about it, has at least stopped crying. Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed response. >From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com >Unbelievably, my friend took two eight-month-old rescue sister tabbies >in to a Central Florida vet to be spayed, and when she returned for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >name of this vet if he doesn't come through in a big way. Or maybe >even if he does.) OMG, that is horrible!!! :( That poor kitty! I would flip out if a vet ever did that to one of my cats. But I guess it's done so the only recourse to make this sick monster pay with money. I wonder if a complaint can be made to the veterinarian board in the state where she lives. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >OMG, that is horrible!!! :( That poor kitty! I would flip out if a vet ever >did that to one of my cats. But I guess it's done so the only recourse to make >this sick monster pay with money. Sick monster??? Bit harsh you gotta admit. More like a vet and staff who made a mistake. It shouldn't happen, but it does happen to the best of us. But he called her, took responsibility for his actions, and "offered to do whatever it takes to make it up to her", which to me shows integrity. Teri > >OMG, that is horrible!!! :( That poor kitty! I would flip out if a vet ever > >did that to one of my cats. But I guess it's done so the only recourse to make [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Teri I hope this shows integrity, as you said. On the other hand, what else could he do other than to call her and take responsibility -- after all, this isn't the type of mistake that would go "unnoticed." And then I just read another message from the OP in which she says that this clinic actually sent the wrong cat home (and they sent a large male cat home wearing her small female cat's collar). The woman discovered it on the way home when she looked in the carrier, then went back to get her own cat. MaryL >From: "MaryL" carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OU >> >OMG, that is horrible!!! :( That poor kitty! I would flip out if a vet >ever [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >MaryL My statement sick monster stands. This guy has a huge problem and should NOT be practicing veterinarian medicine. He has mutilated Mary's friend's cat :( Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >>OMG, that is horrible!!! :( That poor kitty! I would flip out if a vet ever >>did that to one of my cats. But I guess it's done so the only recourse to make >>this sick monster pay with money. > > Sick monster??? Bit harsh you gotta admit. > More like a vet and staff who made a mistake. Doesn't matter. He's still a sick monster for performing this mutilation to begin with. > It shouldn't happen, > but it does happen to the best of us. But he called her, took > responsibility for his actions, and "offered to do whatever it takes > to make it up to her", which to me shows integrity. > > Teri > >>OMG, that is horrible!!! :( That poor kitty! I would flip out if a vet ever > >>did that to one of my cats. But I guess it's done so the only recourse to make [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Doesn't matter. He's still a sick monster for performing this > mutilation to begin with. I am strongly opposed to declawing and agree that it is mutilation. However, if we were to classify every vet who performs declaw as "a sick monster," I'm afraid that would include about 3/4 of all vets in the U.S. (and possibly more). MaryL >>>>OMG, that is horrible!!! :( That poor kitty! I would flip out if a vet > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > monster," I'm afraid that would include about 3/4 of all vets in the U.S. > (and possibly more). So? If they are, they are. > >>>>OMG, that is horrible!!! :( That poor kitty! I would flip out if a vet > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > So? If they are, they are. Tarring with a very broad brush? The point being, that just because a person may not agree w/ one facet of the vets' practices, that they may very well be (otherwise) good --> excellent vets: ones who can diagnose properly, can recognize when they're out of their depth & make referrals to other vets who do have the necessary expertise, who relate well w/ animals, & who communicate well w/ their clients. Cathy -- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon >From: BudGan25 BudGan@hotmail.com >>>OMG, that is horrible!!! :( That poor kitty! I would flip out if a vet >ever [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Doesn't matter. He's still a sick monster for performing this >mutilation to begin with. Yes he is. I've never been able to get my mind around how a vet, who is supposed to care about the health and welfare of animals, can do this cruel act to cats :( Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm PawsForThought wrote:> OMG, that is horrible!!! :( That poor kitty! I would flip out if a > vet ever did that to one of my cats. > Lauren Yes, me too. I was trying to comfort my friend and "look on the bright side" i.e the cat is still ALIVE. But after I hung up I kept thinking about it, and when it sank in I was even sadder. My friend adopted these sisters as tiny kittens, and they play together all the time. Now one is maimed forever. Hard to take, for me. From her point of view--they are like children, and she betrayed trust. > ________ > See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe > Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html > http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html > Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > Now one is maimed forever. Hard to > take, for me. > From her point of view--they are like children, and she betrayed > trust. Flippy, I do hope you can convince your friend that she has not betrayed her kitten's trust. This was a tragic mistake, as you said, but the mistake was not hers. She even had collars on her cats with their names. There really isn't anything more she could have done, and she could not have foreseen something like this. Now the issue will be how to help her kitten through this, and her kitten is fortunate to have someone who is aware of the problems. I agree with one post that the vet should agree to take care of all future veterinary bills that are possibly related to this incident, including any behavioral issues that may occur. On the other hand, sometimes behavioral problems do not begin until several years in the future, so it might be difficult to hold someone to that agreement -- a savings account of some sort for the cat might be better. Your friend has my sympathy. I adopted a four-paw declawed cat more than 20 years ago. She was a sweet, wonderful cat and adapted remarkably well; but I could always see a big difference between her and my other cats. She did not have the same agility, and she developed arthritis earlier than she should have (which I always attributed to the declaw). That, in turn, led to some litterbox problems because it became painful for her to dig in the litter. I bought the softest litter I could find, and that helped some. This might also be useful information for your friend -- this kitty will not have the support that claws provide for digging, and harsh surfaces could compound the problem. Also, it soon became clear to me that my cat wanted to scratch even though she didn't have claws, so I bought a scratching post for her. However, I got a softer-textured carpeted post than the others liked (also because she didn't have the protection that claws provide). She loved it and would "scratch" on it with great enthusiasm. MaryL >From: "MaryL" carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER > I agree with one post that the vet should agree to take care of >all future veterinary bills that are possibly related to this incident, >including any behavioral issues that may occur. On the other hand, >sometimes behavioral problems do not begin until several years in the >future, so it might be difficult to hold someone to that agreement -- a >savings account of some sort for the cat might be better. I would recommend too that she consults with a lawyer and get everything in writing and signed by the vet. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > Flippy, Mary L., I don't know where you got "Flippy," but it sure is cute! Is that my new screen name? <G> It have me a smile when I needed one! > I do hope you can convince your friend that she has not betrayed her > kitten's trust. This was a tragic mistake, as you said, but the mistake was > not hers. She even had collars on her cats with their names. There really > isn't anything more she could have done, and she could not have foreseen > something like this. Thanks, yes, I told her, she is better today but yesterday she was inconsolable. > Now the issue will be how to help her kitten through > this, Do we know how siblings act, one declawed, one not? They will not hurt one another will they? They are always cuddling, grooming, cutest thing I have ever seen when I was down there a couple of months ago. I couldn't take my eyes off of them, such beautiful brown tabby girls, and so happy! > Your friend has my sympathy. I adopted a four-paw declawed cat more than 20 > years ago. She was a sweet, wonderful cat and adapted remarkably well; but [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > liked (also because she didn't have the protection that claws provide). She > loved it and would "scratch" on it with great enthusiasm. Thanks for the good suggestions, Mary L. If my home has any room for another rescue I probably ought to adopt an older declawed cat since it would be safe with me as I never let my cats outside due to the traffic. My apologies, Mary. I just referred to you as Flippy in my previous post. I had just been reading one of her messages and apparently had a senior moment (but you would think I could keep up with someone who shares my own name)! MaryL > My apologies, Mary. I just referred to you as Flippy in my previous post. > I had just been reading one of her messages Darn! What a cute name! I thought I might have it for my very own! No apologies needed. (If I had a name like Flippy could I ever have a bad day??!) :-) >From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com >PawsForThought wrote:> OMG, that is horrible!!! :( That poor kitty! >I would flip out if a [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >From her point of view--they are like children, and she betrayed >trust. I can't even imagine :( I am so sorry that this happened. There is a woman who posts on an AOL group that had a similar thing happen where the vet declawed her cat. I don't think she'll ever forget it :( I hope your friend doesn't blame herself. It is clearly the complete doing of the vet. She was just doing the responsible thing by getting her cat spayed. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >The vet called tonight and >told her he will do "whatever it takes" to make this up to her. All >she can do is cry. > >Ideas? There's a surgery that is expensive where they reattach the cut tendons so they can at least walk normally again. They do this with big cats that are declawed by previous owners. A vet killed my cat by accident, I sued, won and donated the funds to a cat rescue place. I just wanted the vet to realize he can't get away with accidents. >From: mmmaryinla@aol.comspam (Mary) >>The vet called tonight and >>told her he will do "whatever it takes" to make this up to her. All [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >get >away with accidents. Mary, I'm so sorry to hear about your cat. To the OP, you might want to contact the Paw Project, a wonderful organization. They work mainly with lions, tigers, etc., but the vet is a great person and I'm sure she might be able to help recommend something. www.pawproject.com Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > Unbelievably, my friend took two eight-month-old rescue sister tabbies > in to a Central Florida vet to be spayed, and when she returned for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > name of this vet if he doesn't come through in a big way. Or maybe > even if he does.) You're probably going to hate my reply, but... when I read the subject line I was prepared for something really, truly horrendously tragic - like a cat had died. You may be against declawing, and the vet made a big mistake & therefore the cats' owner may well be plenty P.O.ed, but it is not the end of the world; the cat can, & most likely will, live a perfectly normal, healthy, happy life. They - the two cats - will not recognize the fact that one is declawed & one isn't. I have & have had fully-clawed & front-declawed cats living together - it doesn't present a problem; not an issue w/ them. Cathy -- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon >> Unbelievably, my friend took two eight-month-old rescue sister tabbies >> in to a Central Florida vet to be spayed, and when she returned for [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > "Staccato signals of constant information..." > ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon Does this make it "OK"? No. Is it still tragic? Well, there are those that believe it is and it is certainly not of benefit to the cat. Is it a really sad commentary that declawing is done in such regularity that such a mistake can occur? Probably. It isn't *as* tragic as something else could be, maybe not but I would certainly feel as bad as the owner. Karen > >> Unbelievably, my friend took two eight-month-old rescue sister tabbies > >> in to a Central Florida vet to be spayed, and when she returned for [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > Does this make it "OK"? No. Did I say it was okay? No, I did not, & no, it isn't. I was simply putting the whole thing into perspective, compared w/ what I was steeling myself for when I read the subject line. Cathy -- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon Is it still tragic? Well, there are those that > believe it is and it is certainly not of benefit to the cat. Is it a really > sad commentary that declawing is done in such regularity that such a mistake > can occur? Probably. It isn't *as* tragic as something else could be, maybe > not but I would certainly feel as bad as the owner. > > Karen >> in article bohjpj$1drss7$1@ID-103542.news.uni-berlin.de, Cathy Friedmann > at [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > "Staccato signals of constant information..." > ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon Sorry, the post just came off sounding like "oh, is that all it was". Guess I just reacted. Karen > >> in article bohjpj$1drss7$1@ID-103542.news.uni-berlin.de, Cathy Friedmann > > at [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > Karen Well, I did warn the OP that (IMO) she probably would not like my reply... And compared w/ what I was imagining (probably a death as a result of the "tragic mistake"), it *was* an "oh, that's all?", in comparison. *In comparison*. Everything's relative. Cathy -- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon >>in article bohjpj$1drss7$1@ID-103542.news.uni-berlin.de, Cathy Friedmann > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > the whole thing into perspective, compared w/ what I was steeling myself for > when I read the subject line. Mutilation is still tragic, even though other things may be worse. > Cathy > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >>Karen >>>Unbelievably, my friend took two eight-month-old rescue sister tabbies >>>in to a Central Florida vet to be spayed, and when she returned for [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Karen Exactly. It's still a tragic event, even though others may be more tragic... like both cats being mutilated. > "Mary" <rosefan@email. > You're probably going to hate my reply I don't "hate" any reply. What a waste of emotion that would be in a public forum. , but... when I read the > subject line I was prepared for something really, truly horrendously > tragic - like a cat had died. You may be against declawing, and the > vet made a big mistake & therefore the cats' owner may well be plenty > P.O.ed, but it is not the end of the world; The word "tragic" is probably best understood as a subjective assessment. I think that if a doctor cut off the end finger joints on both of your hands when you went in for a hysterectomy, it would be tragic. Of course, it would be more tragic if he cut off your entire hands, or killed you. Why do I think it is tragic? Because it was not desired by her caretaker, it has limited her former abilities and it cannot be undone. You get to think what you want, too. Neat, eh? <G > > Unbelievably, my friend took two eight-month-old rescue sister tabbies > > in to a Central Florida vet to be spayed, and when she returned for [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > "Staccato signals of constant information..." > ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon And it was actually *more* tragic then I expected after reading the subject line......... sigh...... Linda > And it was actually *more* tragic then I expected after reading the subject > line......... sigh...... > > Linda You understand. I kiss my little Cheeky's paws. When you love every inch of a creature such a thing would be hard to take. Plus the little girl is jerking as though shocked when she tries to use her paws. I thought the heading "Tragic Mistake" was lighter than "tragedy" as it is not as bad as it might have been, but heavier than "Mistake" as "OOPs" doesn't seem to cover it at all. This is the sort of thing that gives me a heavy heart. How heavy is heavy? Pfffft. I don't know. > > And it was actually *more* tragic then I expected after reading the > subject [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > "OOPs" doesn't seem to cover it at all. This is the sort of thing that > gives me a heavy heart. How heavy is heavy? Pfffft. I don't know. With the headline as a warning, I still gasped when I read what happened. (Do you ever smell their schtinky little paws?) :0) > > > And it was actually *more* tragic then I expected after reading the > > subject [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > With the headline as a warning, I still gasped when I read what happened. > (Do you ever smell their schtinky little paws?) :0) I love the way cats smell, paws and all! They have a scent around their faces and heads like little babies and toddlers' heads do. That nice warm hair smell. :-) Although, admittedly, Cheeks can be a bit rangy when she has the wrong end turned toward me. Then I give her a bath. It takes her days to forgive me! > > > > And it was actually *more* tragic then I expected after reading > the [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > rangy when she has the wrong end turned toward me. Then I give her a > bath. It takes her days to forgive me! Hehehe... right now, my Betsy has a rather large, shaven spot from a biopsy taken a few weeks ago..... it is especially soft and fuzzy......... Linda Linda E wrote:> > Hehehe... right now, my Betsy has a rather large, shaven spot from a > biopsy taken a few weeks ago..... it is especially soft and > fuzzy......... <G> Cute! You know, the little place where they shaved Cheeky to spay her has never grown its fur back. It feels sort of "shar-pei" like, only softer. And it has those cute little spots mackeral tabbies have! I wonder why the fur doesn't grow back in some areas. Her spay was done over two years ago. > Linda E wrote:> > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I wonder why the fur doesn't grow back in some areas. Her spay was > done over two years ago. Wow. Betsy had a spot on her neck shaved for a feeding tube that took *forever* to grow back, but it was much less than 2 years! I would think if it hasn't grown back by now, it's not going to.....? > > Linda E wrote:> > > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > *forever* to grow back, but it was much less than 2 years! I would think if > it hasn't grown back by now, it's not going to.....? Yes, I think you're right. Heck, for all I know there wasn't much/any fur there to begin with. She is a short-haired tabby, with a very delicate, Siamese build--not any extreme wedge head, but definitely angular. Anyone else out there got a bare-bellied tabby? :-) Mary <rosefan@email.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > She is a short-haired tabby, with a very delicate, Siamese build--not > any extreme wedge head, but definitely angular. Anyone else out there > got a bare-bellied tabby? :-) I wish. Kami has very long belly fur. Not a problem except that's one part she gets a little feisty about brushing. I do my best, but when she's had enough, I trim out problem spots with scissors. SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? > > > Linda E wrote:> > > > > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > any extreme wedge head, but definitely angular. Anyone else out there > got a bare-bellied tabby? :-) Yes & no. I have a calico whose abdomen goes bare each summer. It gets short fur for the winter, then sheds again to just pink belly for the summers. Cathy -- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon "Cathy Friedmann" <clfr@adelphia.net> wrote in message news:bom4pr$1fav66$1@ID-> > Yes & no. I have a calico whose abdomen goes bare each summer. It gets > short fur for the winter, then sheds again to just pink belly for the > summers. Very cute. She has her winter and summer suit! > -- > "Staccato signals of constant information..." > ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon > > Linda E wrote:> Yes, I think you're right. Heck, for all I know there wasn't much/any fur there to begin with. She is a short-haired tabby, with a very delicate, Siamese build--not any extreme wedge head, but definitely angular. Anyone else out there got a bare-bellied tabby? :-) Our 2 yr. old long hair calico has an almost bare belly. I'm not sure how long ago she was spayed. This was already done when she was found as a stray and taken to the shelter. She's very sensitive about her bare belly and doesn't like to be touched there. Wendy > Linda E wrote:> > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I wonder why the fur doesn't grow back in some areas. Her spay was > done over two years ago. Holly's fur grew back after she was spayed 8 years ago. However, she was an all-black cat before she was spayed without a single white hair. She is still an all-black cat -- *except* that there is a row of white fur growing out of each side of the incision! MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") > Holly's fur grew back after she was spayed 8 years ago. However, she was an > all-black cat before she was spayed without a single white hair. She is > still an all-black cat -- *except* that there is a row of white fur growing > out of each side of the incision! Huh! How odd. What an interesting topic. I don't suppose anyone would abuse this information by shaving different parts of their cats to create an artistic pattern, do you? ;) > > Holly's fur grew back after she was spayed 8 years ago. However, > she was an [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > abuse this information by shaving different parts of their cats to > create an artistic pattern, do you? ;) I suspect that shaving wouldn't change anything. After all, the area that was shaved was much larger, and her black fur grew back. No, the white fur specifically follows the pattern of the incision (and is very narrow). Has anyone else on this group noticed anything like this following surgery? MaryL > Has anyone else on this group noticed anything like this following > surgery? Shadow's belly is much whiter than it was before his surgeries. Though, his tummy is much bigger so I suspect that maybe his white just "spread". I do think that trauma to the skin can affect fur color -- a friend of mine whose dog had an allergy to K9Advantics has fur on that spot that is now red rather than the black that covers the rest of her body. > > Holly's fur grew back after she was spayed 8 years ago. However, > she was an [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > abuse this information by shaving different parts of their cats to > create an artistic pattern, do you? ;) My guess is that it isn't the shaving itself, but the fact that there's an incision site there. Cathy -- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon > Holly's fur grew back after she was spayed 8 years ago. However, > she was an all-black cat before she was spayed without a single > white hair. She is still an all-black cat -- *except* that there > is a row of white fur growing out of each side of the incision! I have her "sister". LOL Bonnie doesn't have a single white fur on her, either. Solid black. But I have noticed that a spot on her neck under her chin where she had some sort of scabby stuff that has healed is now dark gray. > <G> Cute! You know, the little place where they shaved Cheeky to > spay her has never grown its fur back. It feels sort of "shar-pei" > like, only softer. And it has those cute little spots mackeral > tabbies have! I wonder why the fur doesn't grow back in some areas. > Her spay was done over two years ago. Bonnie is my first female cat and her tummy still has bare spots after about 6 months, mostly around the nipples. Shadow, OTOH, had his tummy shaved multiple times for surgeries (liver aspiration, feeding tube, removing part of feeding tube (very large incision)) but his fur has all grown back very thick. I do wonder if it is a gender thing. > Unbelievably, my friend took two eight-month-old rescue sister tabbies > in to a Central Florida vet to be spayed, and when she returned for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > name of this vet if he doesn't come through in a big way. Or maybe > even if he does.) Your friend should immediately consult with a lawyer. The thing is, the vet is worried your friend might take this action... so he is hoping to avoid the mess by offering to settle. Vets are supposed to heal, not harm. Signature"Its the bugs that keep it running." -Joe Canuck >> Unbelievably, my friend took two eight-month-old rescue sister tabbies >> in to a Central Florida vet to be spayed, and when she returned for [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> she gets a lawyer and donates any funds collected. She is heartsick as >> am I. It's sad, it's outrageous that this happened. Unfortunately, mistakes like that aren't limited to vets. Ihave a friend who had knee surgery *on the wrong knee* last year. I would be curious to hear what kind of offer the vet makes. Free lifetime vet care for both cats? Sherry > >> Unbelievably, my friend took two eight-month-old rescue sister tabbies > >> in to a Central Florida vet to be spayed, and when she returned for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > aren't limited to vets. Ihave a friend who had knee surgery *on the wrong knee* > last year. I've read that people are now advised to write (w/ a marker) on their body parts things like "Yes, this one!" and "No, not this one!", since apparently this sort of mistake has been made way more often that one would think. > I would be curious to hear what kind of offer the vet makes. Free > lifetime vet care for both cats? That would be reasonable, IMO. Cathy -- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon (...) > > I would be curious to hear what kind of offer the vet makes. Free > > lifetime vet care for both cats? > > That would be reasonable, IMO. ...but would you want that vet to care for your cats...? Steve. > (...) > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Steve. Good point. Otoh, is this a one-off sort of event (no one's perfect), or does this vet/clinic have a history of making large mistakes? Cathy -- "Staccato signals of constant information..." ("The Boy in the Bubble") Paul Simon >From: "Cathy Friedmann" clfr@adelphia.net >> "Cathy Friedmann" <clfr@adelphia.net> wrote in message >news:<bohpbg$1e0ccf$1@ID-103542.news.uni-berlin.de>... [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > >Cathy If this happened to me, I could never walk in there again without feeling sick :( Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > (...) > > ...but would you want that vet to care for your cats...? > > Steve. Yeah, when I first suggested this she said "I don't even want to go back there!" I'm thinking cash to a cat shelter. As it turns out he has given all sorts of time to the rescue groups. >From: news@stevethepsycho.co.uk (Steve G) >(...) >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >...but would you want that vet to care for your cats...? Damn good point, Steve! I sure wouldn't want him to ever touch another one of my cats again. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm (...)> > Damn good point, Steve! I sure wouldn't want him to ever touch another one > of my cats again. Although, on the flip side, he would presumably be very careful to give fautless care to that person's cats, in the future...! Steve. I just wanted to let the group know what happened with the central FL vet who accidentally declawed my friend's kitten. She did not hear from him again until she returned to his office last Weds. because the delawed cat had come down with a respiratory infection. Although she expected this vet to make some sort of gesture, all he did was apologize. Although she is not very confrontational, she actually did ask "So that's IT?" And this SOB said, "Yes, that's it." He prescribed antibiotics for the cat who is really congested, e.g. you can hear her breathing from the other room. So now she has a mutilated cat that is also sick from something caught at the vet's office. Finally, someone a bit more confrontational than my friend called the vet's office and when he would not come to the telephone, left the message that she wanted to discuss the fact that he had mutilated this cat, that the cat was now sick, and that they had offered no restitution of any kind. The vet then called my friend (within minutes) and after a brief discussion offered to refund her money for the two spaying procedures. He told her to go to the drug store and buy pseudofed {sp} and give the kitten 30 mgs for her congestion and to continue the antibiotics. So, this is what one gets for expecting the vet to do the right thing on his own. I want my friend to wait until she gets the check (it's like $200 or so) and then lodge a formal complaint using all of the excellent advice Iso offered. It isn't worth getting a lawyer over, but it is worth making trouble for this guy. I also hope she will change vets. Meanwhile, I have some questions about administering pseudofed to cats. New thread. >From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com >I just wanted to let the group know what happened with the central FL >vet who accidentally declawed my friend's kitten. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >advice Iso offered. It isn't worth getting a lawyer over, but it is >worth making trouble for this guy. I also hope she will change vets. Geez, Mary, I'm so sorry to hear this idiot couldn't care less about your friend's cat. I really hope she lodges a complaint. A person like this has no right practicing veterinarian medicine. We can only hope he gets his due karma. What a sick bastard!!!! If it were me, I might contact the local newspaper and see if they would be willing to do a story on it. People in the area need to know about this guy. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >I just wanted to let the group know what happened with the central FL >vet who accidentally declawed my friend's kitten. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >Meanwhile, I have some questions about administering pseudofed to >cats. New thread. Check out Small Claims Court rules in your area. > Check out Small Claims Court rules in your area. ML, small claims court is for a loss that you can put a monetary value on. Unfortunatly, cats and other pets are chattel or considered property and since there is no loss of life, it is unlikely the justice system will rule in her favor, or at least in a way that would be satisfying. Regarding the vet who declawed the cat "accidently"... I don't know the laws in that area, but, I recommend sending a certified letter documenting this situation to the vet and the veterinary (legal/medical) monitoring body. If this vet is so unethical to blow this off like this, there is nothing to prevent him from trying to falsify or ammend or rewrite the medical chart. He should he be sanctioned/penalized for doing this AND your friend might have a claim for monetary/punitive/pain & suffering damages. Although she is not very > confrontational, she actually did ask "So that's IT?" And this SOB > said, "Yes, that's it." He prescribed antibiotics for the cat who is > really congested, e.g. you can hear her breathing from the other > room. This is an infuriating subject to me. I'm so glad your friend had someone more confrontational to speak for her, even though it seems to have no effect. I'm pretty much the same way and though urged to file a complaint against the vet who was negligent and gave my Shadow FeLV, I never did. I have, however, talked to other people in the area and told them about it and they won't take their animals to her. I should have done more but life has sucked this year and confrontations aren't something I could have dealt with. > I just wanted to let the group know what happened with the central FL > vet who accidentally declawed my friend's kitten. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Meanwhile, I have some questions about administering pseudofed to > cats. New thread. I'm beginning to think he wants to kill the cat so there is no evidence. Karen > I'm beginning to think he wants to kill the cat so there is no evidence. > > Karen That's what occurred to me when I read that the vet called her up and told her to give something to the cat over the phone. > > I'm beginning to think he wants to kill the cat so there is no evidence. > > > > Karen > > That's what occurred to me when I read that the vet called her up and > told her to give something to the cat over the phone. I can see where this is coming from, but no, the vet was not out to kill the cat. Although he is a negligent idiot so I'm glad I looked into it before my friend used it, Sudafed actually does help and lots of vets apparently use it for cats with heavy congestion. He did not mean to harm her kitten in any way, ever. That said, he has not behaved well since the accident. Lucky for him, I don't think my friend is going to file a complaint. I wish she would, but I can't--and don't want to--tell her what to do. She does say that she will not take her cats back to him, for what that is worth. > I just wanted to let the group know what happened with the central FL > vet who accidentally declawed my friend's kitten. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Meanwhile, I have some questions about administering pseudofed to > cats. New thread. Minimally, a complaint needs to be filed with the state veterinary liscencing board. Sombody screwed up and I suspect that it was the receptionist who took the cat in. There are *so many* checks and balances that should be in place to prevent this from happening. I know of one other case where this happened - and it was because the receptionist checked the wrong box on the surgery card. Needless to say, she wasn't fired, but should have been. -L. "-L." <k3_e81@yahoo.com> wrote in message > Minimally, a complaint needs to be filed with the state veterinary > liscencing board. Sombody screwed up and I suspect that it was the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > -L. You are absolutely right. I believe my friend needs to file the complaint in hopes that it may prevent his office from doing this to any other cats. I plan to bring it up again soon. >>>Unbelievably, my friend took two eight-month-old rescue sister tabbies >>>in to a Central Florida vet to be spayed, and when she returned for [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Sherry How about a lifetime of speaking to community groups, shelters, etc about the drawbacks of declawing? ;-) Signature"Its the bugs that keep it running." -Joe Canuck "Sherry " <sriddles@aol.comkitty> wrote in message > It's sad, it's outrageous that this happened. Unfortunately, mistakes like that > aren't limited to vets. Ihave a friend who had knee surgery *on the wrong knee* > last year. I would be curious to hear what kind of offer the vet makes. Free > lifetime vet care for both cats? That's what I think, too. Also, a chunk of money to a shelter and refunding the money charged to my friend for that vet visit--which was over $200 to have both girls spayed. > Sherry >"Sherry " <sriddles@aol.comkitty> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >the money charged to my friend for that vet visit--which was over $200 >to have both girls spayed. > Sherry I think everybody here knows what I think about declaw, so please realize I'm being realistic. It isn't fair, and it isn't just, but to be honest, I wouldn't expect much compensation if the case goes to court, so I'd try to negotiate with the vet. Animals are property, and I just wouldn't expect a judge (and some of them are not sympathetic to animal issues) to award damages or make any kind of restitution or donation. It's just that I've seen too many *extreme* animal abuse/neglect cases go through the courts with a more than disappointing outcome. The only guarantee is that the media would probably pick up on it and the vet would get some bad publicity, and he knows that, so he might be all the more willing to settle out of court. OTOH, he may be disciplined by the Board especially if it's not the first complaint he's had. Sherry >>> "Sherry " <sriddles@aol.comkitty> wrote in message >> I think everybody here knows what I think about declaw, so please [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> not sympathetic to animal issues) to award damages or make any kind >> of restitution or donation. You nice folks are really taking that ball and running with it, aren't you? <G> My friend isn't interested in suing, and she doesn't want to hurt the doctor over this. He is a nice man who does a lot of volunteer work for shelters and loves animals--though he does declaw, I imagine that is about making a living and meeting demand. But that is beside the point. My friend doesn't need the money, and doesn't want to cause problems for the doctor. The person responsible for the mix-up will be fired, and my friend will ask the vet to make a donation to her favorite shelter so that something good can come out of this thing in exchange for the bad thing that has been done to her cat. He may offer other things, I don't know. But that is the plan as of yesterday. >>>> "Sherry " <sriddles@aol.comkitty> wrote in message >>> I think everybody here knows what I think about declaw, so please [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > You nice folks are really taking that ball and running with it, >aren't you? <G> Oh, sorry if I misunderstood. The first post said, "I thought maybe make his give a ton of money to a no-kill shelter--or, she gets a lawyer and donates any funds collected. " A later post asked how to proceed. I assumed from this that litigation was being considered. Sherry >My friend isn't interested in suing, and she doesn't want to hurt the >doctor over this. "Sherry " <sriddles@aol.comkitty> wrote in message > Oh, sorry if I misunderstood. It was just a gentle chide. :-) I appreciate everyone's input. It made me feel better just to talk about it with others who care about cats. I just hope my friend is feeling better. > Your friend should immediately consult with a lawyer. > > The thing is, the vet is worried your friend might take this action... > so he is hoping to avoid the mess by offering to settle. > > Vets are supposed to heal, not harm. Thanks, Joe, just what I think. I told her to at least speak with a lawyer via telephone so that she has a name to use when she talks to the vet. > > Your friend should immediately consult with a lawyer. > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > lawyer via telephone so that she has a name to use when she talks to > the vet. Also, a simple letter from her lawyer might not cost much and would have a much greater impact than a telephone call from her. MaryL > Unbelievably, my friend took two eight-month-old rescue sister tabbies > in to a Central Florida vet to be spayed, and when she returned for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > name of this vet if he doesn't come through in a big way. Or maybe > even if he does.) How incompetent do you have to be to declaw a cat that came in to be spayed? I'd make him donate a bunch of money and *then* report him! I'm so sorry for your sister's kitty. I hope to god he doesn't suffer any more ill effects. K > Unbelievably, my friend took two eight-month-old rescue sister tabbies > in to a Central Florida vet to be spayed, and when she returned for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Ideas? I think it would be very fair to "declaw" the vet. This is indeed revolting. Why not try to make declawing illegal in the USA? |
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