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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / December 2003Allergies, Linear Granuloma, and Diet
Cheeky has asthma--presented with it the day I brought her home from the shelter. Very scary attacks which we control with shots. I wait as long as I can i.e. until she coughs or sniffles, to take her in because I know that steroid use can cause diabetes and a host of other problems. She is currently having 3-4 shots per year.She is a 7-pound grey-brown mackerel tabby, age about three, sweetest creature in the world. :0) Took her in for her her "depo" shot (what they call it, it is cortisone, I think?) yesterday. I asked the doctor to check her out because I had noticed some tiny bumps on her nose and the back of one of her legs, along the tendon. He said it is linear granuloma, and explained that it is a syndrome, not life threatening, controlled by cortisone (in other words, exactly what we are doing now.) (He also said the linear kind is rare--that he sees maybe 40 cases of the "rodent ulcer" syndrome a year, and of those, maybe one linear granuloma case. I guess we're just lucky--and I actually mean that because I am so relieve this is not something life threatening.) Then I went to Google and read all the posts I could from this and all the other cat groups and I see that LG can really bother them, cause them to scratch themselves raw and be very uncomfortable. Here is what I would like to know: has anyone out there fed a cat with asthma/Linear granuloma a diet that had really seemed to help keep the masses/lesions to a minimum? I would like to do what I can to make sure Cheeks doesn't suffer. Also, are there allergy tests for cats? It seems to me that if I could keep her from the things she is allergic to she might not get the bumps or asthma as much? Any help is much appreciated. >From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com >Cheeky has asthma--presented with it the day I brought her home from >the shelter. Very scary attacks which we control with shots. I wait [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > >Any help is much appreciated. Hi Mary, Sorry to hear Cheeky has asthma. My little Meesha has it too. In my particular case, we see a hollistic vet, and we switched her to a homemade raw diet, as well as using natural remedies, which has been greatly beneficial. Asthma and granulomas can indicate a weak immune system, and there are things a person can do with the help of a vet to strengthen it. It can also be the result of over vaccination. There is also a plant based natural cortisone that a vet can prescribe. I'm not sure if you live in the US or not, but there is a state by state listing of holistic vets at www.altvetmed.com. You might also want to check out the book that Cheryl posted about regarding animals and allergies. Best of luck and healing purrs to Cheeky :) Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com > > Hi Mary, > Sorry to hear Cheeky has asthma. My little Meesha has it too. In my > particular case, we see a hollistic vet, and we switched her to a homemade raw > diet, as well as using natural remedies, which has been greatly beneficial. I have never heard of holistic vets, I'll have to check that out around here. > Asthma and granulomas can indicate a weak immune system, and there are things a > person can do with the help of a vet to strengthen it. It can also be the > result of over vaccination. I was just hinking about the fact that our cats are indoor only, so why do they need all those shots? Cheeks got a fatty mass around her vax site once, too. There is also a plant based natural cortisone that > a vet can prescribe. I'm not sure if you live in the US or not, but there is a > state by state listing of holistic vets at www.altvetmed.com. You might also > want to check out the book that Cheryl posted about regarding animals and > allergies. Best of luck and healing purrs to Cheeky :) > > Lauren Super, Lauren, thank you. You are always so helpful. I'll come back and share what I learn about boosting cats' immune systems. > ________ > See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe > Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html > http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html > Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com >> >From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com >> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >Super, Lauren, thank you. You are always so helpful. I'll come back >and share what I learn about boosting cats' immune systems. Best of luck, Mary, and if I can help further, please let me know. I know how hard it is having a furbaby with asthma. If you email me with your email addy, I can send you some more info. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > Best of luck, Mary, and if I can help further, please let me know. I know how > hard it is having a furbaby with asthma. It really is. It figures that she, the sweetest creature I have ever known, would have it! My 20-year-old was mean as a snake and healthy as a horse! ;) I did love her, too, but my love was largely unrequited! >If you email me with your email addy, > I can send you some more info. I'd love that Lauren, thank yoou. My email is rosefan@email.com. Asthma and granulomas can indicate a weak > immune system, and there are things a person can do with the help > of a vet to strengthen it. I could be totally wrong here but I believe allergies are more the result of an over active immune system. I think this is why steroids help a lot of the time because it suppresses the immune system. Something about too many white blood cells attacking what the body considers foreign, right or wrong. It can also be the result of over > vaccination. That is my understanding, too. >From: "Cheryl" jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com >PawsForThought <darnit7@aol.comnolitter> composed with style: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Something about too many white blood cells attacking what the body >considers foreign, right or wrong. You are absolutely right, and if I am understanding it right, the immune system has to be comprised to begin with, then it overreacts. According to Don Hamilton, DVM, "Allergies are caused by the allergen - they are an internal problem first. The immune system becomes overreactive and then develops an allergy to whatever potential allergens are around...The immune system must be compromised first, and this is often caused by other stressors like vaccines, toxins, and poor foods." Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm According to Don Hamilton, DVM, "Allergies are caused > by the allergen - they are an internal problem first. The immune > system becomes overreactive and then develops an allergy to > whatever potential allergens are around...The immune system must be > compromised first, and this is often caused by other stressors like > vaccines, toxins, and poor foods." I'm learning a lot from this book. My vet is going to want to hide from me whenever she sees me coming after this week. lol Shamrock has to go back for his follow-up and get a dental this week. She wants to see that the depo worked since I only tend to bring him when he breaks out. He's healing nicely now, she'll be happy. I just copied something from this book to someone on another list and I'd be happy to C&P it; it's very interesting in how food allergies cause skin problems and the specific spots to look at. > I'm learning a lot from this book. My vet is going to want to hide > from me whenever she sees me coming after this week. lol Shamrock [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > happy to C&P it; it's very interesting in how food allergies cause > skin problems and the specific spots to look at. I would love to hear more, Cheryl. From Chapter 4 - why foods are allergenic Pet Allergies; Remedies for an epidemic Alfred J Plechner, DVM[1] (some parts near the end paraphrased) Skin - External spokesman for internal affairs Vets treat more skin disorders than any other problem, according to a national survey. Although it doesn't receive as much recognition as skin-related flea allergy, food allergy can be just as troublesome to the skin. Intestinal turmoil permits many allergens and impurities to enter the bloodstream. Certain cells of the body - called mast cells - are sensitive to this unwelcome traffic and they react by secreting histamine, a name familiar to all of you. The histamine has an "open sesame" effect on the walls of the tiniest blood vessels making them more permeable. Blood now seeps into the adjacent tissue through the porous walls causing damaging chemical reactions, irritation, inflammation and itchiness. The animal will respond to these local disturbances by scratching, chewing and biting - making the situation even worse. The mast cells are located in greatest number just below the sking in and around the ears, around the eyes, on the chest and abdomen, above the tail base and on the feet. Here, on the skin, are the major surface impact areas where allergic reactions - so-called allergic dermititises - are most frequently seen. Frenzied licking of paws or scratching of any of these areas are a pretty sure signs of food allergy. (skipping past a couple of scenerios) Lick Granuloma is a frequent skin affliction usually occurring on the legs and feet of dogs. Vets usually attribute it to boredom: the dog is pent up and has nothing to do but lick, bite and chew what is obviously a nagging itchiness. [...] I see this problem often as a form of food allergy which has stimulated the large cluster of mast cells in the legs and feet. 6 of the most common allergic foods for cats Beef and beef by-products tuna milk yeast and yeast products pork turkey [1] This is by no means an advertisment for this book, it is to hopefully save me from copyright laws if they apply in this case. Oh, Mary. I should also say that someone on a yahoo group I read said that when she brought her cat to a vet. dermitologist, that a hard to find parasite was found. At my Shamrock's regular vet, they scraped his skin for mites and it was negative but apparently certain types can be hard to find. Cheyletiella. A sign of them is to make the cats back ripple. Something called a "storage mite" was also brought up in this discussion. > Oh, Mary. I should also say that someone on a yahoo group I read said > that when she brought her cat to a vet. dermitologist, that a hard to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > back ripple. Something called a "storage mite" was also brought up in > this discussion. Thanks, Cheryl. Cheeks has been indoor only for two years, but had been at a shelter before that for four months, so this is possible if it is outside of the normal things vets check for. I'll look into it. >From: "Cheryl" jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com >From Chapter 4 - why foods are allergenic >Pet Allergies; Remedies for an epidemic >Alfred J Plechner, DVM[1] Thanks, Cheryl, that was really interesting. Does he say anything about asthma in his book, do you know? ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: "Cheryl" jlhshadow@devnull.hotmail.com >PawsForThought <darnit7@aol.comnolitter> composed with style: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >I'm learning a lot from this book. My vet is going to want to hide >from me whenever she sees me coming after this week. lol She's lucky she has a client who is so active in her pet's health :) Shamrock >has to go back for his follow-up and get a dental this week. She >wants to see that the depo worked since I only tend to bring him when >he breaks out. He's healing nicely now, she'll be happy. That's great, Cheryl I'm really happy to hear this :) I just >copied something from this book to someone on another list and I'd be >happy to C&P it; it's very interesting in how food allergies cause >skin problems and the specific spots to look at. Are you talking Don Hamilton's book or the book you posted about, I can't remember the vet's name, Al Plechner, was it? I have the Hamilton book but I'm sure others would like to see it, or if it's from the other book, that'd be great too. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > if I am understanding it right, As usual, you're not.... the immune system > has to be comprised to begin with, then it overreacts. There's nothing in the *real* veterinary literature to support the theory that asthma is caused by a compromised immune system... Most asthmatic cats, especially the Siamese, and possibly Himalayan, are simply genetically susceptible to developing asthma. According to Don > Hamilton, DVM, Who? Ah yes, another homeopathic au naturel cult vet-turned-book-seller.... "> The immune system becomes overreactive and then develops an > allergy to whatever potential allergens are around...The immune system must be > compromised first, I'd like to see from where he conjured up that theory! LOL! It sure wasn't from the Veterinary Medical Data Base at Purdue or *real* published veterinary literature! No one exactly knows what all affects these kinds of disorders, so back off. Unless you can *disprove* what was stated, it remains a viable opinion, just like most on here. >>if I am understanding it right, > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > from the Veterinary Medical Data Base at Purdue or *real* published > veterinary literature! > No one exactly knows what all affects these kinds of disorders, so back > off. it right Karen is right, Phil, at least according to my vet, whom I trust and who has had his practice for over 30 years. He said that "some cats just get it." >>No one exactly knows what all affects these kinds of disorders, so > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > who has had his practice for over 30 years. He said that "some cats > just get it." Sorry, Mary. I didn't mean to clutter your post with this stuff, I'm just tired of it from other threads. That said, I'm glad you got some more good info from Phil. The more the merrier, right? Still keeping my finger crossed! :) > >>No one exactly knows what all affects these kinds of disorders, so > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > more good info from Phil. The more the merrier, right? Still keeping my > finger crossed! :) Karen: Usenet is weird! I understand. :-) > Karen is right, Phil, at least according to my vet, whom I trust and > who has had his practice for over 30 years. He said that "some cats > just get it." Mary, that's what I meant by "genetically susceptible". ;) > > Karen is right, Phil, at least according to my vet, whom I trust and > > who has had his practice for over 30 years. He said that "some cats > > just get it." > > Mary, that's what I meant by "genetically susceptible". ;) I've been looking at little Cheeks and I don't know how I missed that she had definite Siamese or one of those wedge-headed "oriental" breeds in her, though she is a tabby in markings. (I read that although 1% of cats have asthma Siamese and other "oriental" breeds are over represented, and that LG correlates with other allergies.) She has huge eyes and a very tapered face, small muzzle. When she wakes me up in the morning by climbing up on me and peering into my face I am sometimes tempted to say "ET phone home!" >From: "Karen M." mskitty@NOSPAMeasystreet.com >>>if I am understanding it right, >> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> from the Veterinary Medical Data Base at Purdue or *real* published >> veterinary literature! >No one exactly knows what all affects these kinds of disorders, so back >off. Unless you can *disprove* what was stated, it remains a viable >opinion, just like most on here. Thanks, Karen. Dr. Hamilton is a highly respected veterinarian, something Phil is NOT. Let's see, shall I listen to a highly respected professional veterinarian, or some a*hole vet wannabee on an internet newsgroup? LOL Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > Thanks, Karen. Dr. Hamilton is a highly respected veterinarian, Homeopaths are *not* "highly respected veterinarians" by the mainstream veterinary community... In fact, many if not most mainstream vets think homeos are quacks. More importantly, many mainstream vets feel homeos are *dangerous* because they deny or delay *real* veterinary care in the early stages of disease when *real* veterinary care has the greatest chance of effecting a cure. One of our vets was an emergency and critical care specialist for 14 years. Many homeo-treated animals ended up in his hospital, most died, because their owners relied on homeos' "naturel remedies" and their other voodoo and magical concoctions and magic wand waving when simple and timely *real* veterinary care would have saved the animals' lives. They rushed their animals to the emergency clinic when they finally realized the homeo was quack and their animal was dying... Unfortunately, it was usually too late. something Phil > is NOT. Let's see, shall I listen to a highly respected professional > veterinarian, "Highly respected" by mostly clueless idiots like you... You don't have a clue how ignorant you are because you only listen to what you want to hear and only read your $10 novels by vet-turned-booksellers who couldn't get published in *real* veterinary texts... A Chinese proverb describes you perfectly: "The frog at the bottom of the well thinks the whole sky is only a meter wide".... > or some a*hole vet wannabee on an internet newsgroup? LOL Now that sure sums up your mentality! LOL! IOW, *everyone* posting advice in internet newsgroups are "a*hole vet wannabee s" including *you*! LOL! You keep forgetting I remember when you began posting.... You sure accumulated a lot of "experiences" before you began posting *after* you began posting.... LOL! >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >You keep forgetting I remember when you began posting.... You sure >accumulated a lot of "experiences" before you began posting *after* you >began posting.... LOL! You keep forgetting that I remember you too, especially when it was revealed about your plagerizing on your website, and your little sock puppets, let's see was it Phoenix Rising? LOL If anyone is a liar here, it's clearly you. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > > >You keep forgetting I remember when you began posting.... You sure > >accumulated a lot of "experiences" before you began posting *after* you > >began posting.... LOL! > You keep forgetting that I remember you too, especially when it was revealed > about your plagerizing on your website, At least the information was *true* and *accurate*....LOL! Btw, Me Too Lauren, I never claimed to have written or put my name on *any* article that I didn't write... and your little sock puppets, let's see > was it Phoenix Rising? What about Phoenix? I clearly posted that a mutual friend arranged the meeting as a surprise.... I forgot, you have a convenient memory.... > LOL If anyone is a liar here, it's clearly you. I don't think so. I have the truth on my side. You, on the other hand, are an obvious compulsive liar. No rational and reasonably intelligent person could possibly believe your cats developed all the adverse effects you claim your cats did... and that you continued to feed your cats a food that continuously produced adverse effects. And if you did, you're too stupid to be entrusted with a cat's life. So either way you lose. Liar or idiot? Which is it? Take your pick because either apply. >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >> LOL If anyone is a liar here, it's clearly you. > >I don't think so. I have the truth on my side. You, on the other hand, >are an obvious compulsive liar. So tell me, Phil Passhole, what exactly have I lied about? LOL >and your little sock puppets, let's see >> was it Phoenix Rising? > >What about Phoenix? I clearly posted that a mutual friend arranged the >meeting as a surprise.... I forgot, you have a convenient memory.... Really? ROFLMAO! Maybe this will refresh YOUR memory: http://tinyurl.com/u4t5 You really a piece of work, that's for sure. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > So tell me, Phil Passhole, You have the mentality of a high school kid... >what exactly have I lied about? LOL Oh lets see.... How about your dozen or so "Me Too" stories for almost every post about an adverse effect people claimed their cats developed from Hill's... I don't know of any hundred cats combined that experienced all the adverse effects from any food that you claim your cats developed from Hill's... If half of your conjured up bullsh!t stories were true, your cats would have been dead years ago... Only a complete idiot would continue to feed their cats a diet that produced so many adverse effects.... And how about your most recent "me too" story... about Hill's causing anal sac disease? LOL! Dozens of people posted about anal sac disease in the past few years... but you never mentioned a word about it until you got on this fanatical anti-Hill's obsession.... Your cats developed more adverse effects *after* you *stopped* feeding Hill's than they did while you *were* feeding them Hills! LOL! > >and your little sock puppets, let's see > >> was it Phoenix Rising? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Really? ROFLMAO! Maybe this will refresh YOUR memory: Real credible sources... LOL! I don't think so.... The reason your so ignorant is because you believe what you want to believe... Was that your best shot? LOL! >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >> >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >You have the mentality of a high school kid... Gee, that's rich, coming from you, LOL >Oh lets see.... How about your dozen or so "Me Too" stories for almost every >post about an adverse effect people claimed their cats developed from [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >would have been dead years ago... Only a complete idiot would continue to >feed their cats a diet that produced so many adverse effects.... That's exactly why I *stopped* feeding it. I didn't know it was food related until I took them to a vet. Once the food was switched, the poor dry coat and stinky poops went away. Why would I make up a story like that? I feel ashamed that I didn't know better and that I was feeding my cats a poor diet. >And how about your most recent "me too" story... about Hill's causing anal >sac disease? LOL! She didn't have anal sac *disease* and I NEVER said she did. I said her anal glands got impacted when she was eating a diet of Science Diet. It was awful. I had to take her to the vet and I've never heard a cat yowl like she did :( I don't know why you are so mentally unbalanced, Phil. Maybe you should up your medication or something. You really have a serious problem. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Gee, that's rich, coming from you, LOL Making fun of peoples' name *is* a childish, high school mentality... > >Oh lets see.... How about your dozen or so "Me Too" stories for almost every > >post about an adverse effect people claimed their cats developed from [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > She didn't have anal sac *disease* and I NEVER said she did. I said her anal > glands got impacted when she was eating a diet of Science Diet. You actually *do* forget all your conjured up "me too" bullsh!t stories! From: "PawsForThought" <darnit7@aol.comnolitter> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:33 AM Subject: Re: "Science Diet" Hairball Control Sensitivity "However, one of my cats anal glands became very badly impacted and infected from eating Science Diet" That *is* anal sac disease, you moron! LOL! You're not only a liar, you're an ignorant liar! LOL! > Making fun of peoples' name *is* a childish, high school > mentality... You do that all the time. Just an observation. Liz the Wiz ring a bell? > > Making fun of peoples' name *is* a childish, high school > > mentality... > > > You do that all the time. Just an observation. Liz the Wiz ring a > bell? Not quite the same thing... I didn't make fun of her name, now did I? I also called Brenchley "Bullsh!t Bob the Backyard Breeder" - same principal and I didn't make fun of his name either... I don't think you understand the difference. >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >> > Making fun of peoples' name *is* a childish, high school >> > mentality... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >and I didn't make fun of his name either... I don't think you understand the >difference. Now there's a difference in name calling? LOLOL!!!!!!!!! ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Now there's a difference in name calling? Yes, there is. Big differences... But you obviously lack the intelligence to know the difference. >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > >> So tell me, Phil Passhole, >> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Making fun of peoples' name *is* a childish, high school mentality... OMG, you really do have a mental problem. You call people names all the time!!!!!! ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > OMG, you really do have a mental problem. You call people names all the > time!!!!!! You see? I was right! You *are* a moron! I call liars and manipulators like you and your fanatical cult "liars" and "manipulators" because you *are* and I've proven it. But I've never made fun a person's name. You really don't understand the difference! LOL! >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >> >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >I've proven it. But I've never made fun a person's name. You really don't >understand the difference! LOL! Name calling is name calling!! But I guess with your degree of arrogance, you can't see that, eh? ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Name calling is name calling!! No, actually it isn't. But I guess with your degree of arrogance, you > can't see that, eh? With you low level of intelligence, you obviously can't understand that there *is* a difference. >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >From: "PawsForThought" <darnit7@aol.comnolitter> >Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >That *is* anal sac disease, you moron! LOL! You're not only a liar, you're >an ignorant liar! LOL! Yes, her anal glands became impacted when she was on a diet of Science Diet food. What is so freakin' hard to understand? Oh and look, you called me a moron. Now now, Phil, didn't you just say calling people names is *childish*? I think you've totally lost it. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Yes, her anal glands became impacted when she was on a diet of Science Diet > food. What is so freakin' hard to understand? That you don't realize you lied, again, even when faced with unequivocal evidence that you did... From: "PawsForThought" <darnit7@aol.comnolitter> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 7:16 PM Subject: Re: Allergies, Linear Granuloma, and Diet "She didn't have anal sac *disease* and I NEVER said she did. I said her anal glands got impacted when she was eating a diet of Science Diet." From: "PawsForThought" <darnit7@aol.comnolitter> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 7:33 AM Subject: Re: "Science Diet" Hairball Control Sensitivity "However, one of my cats anal glands became very badly impacted and infected from eating Science Diet" See? Or are you going to dwell in denial forever? Oh and look, you called me a > moron. Now now, Phil, didn't you just say calling people names is *childish*? No. I said making fun of peoples' names is a high school kid's mentality. Can't you even read a statement correctly without manipulating it? That's probably why you're just as, if not more ignornant now than you were when you began posting! LOL! > I think you've totally lost it. I don't think so... After all, I just caught you in another lie, didn't I? LOL! >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >> >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >> [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] >I don't think so... After all, I just caught you in another lie, didn't I? >LOL! Huh?????????? What lie? You are mentally ill, Phil, and I hope you get the help that you need! Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > Huh?????????? What lie? You still don't see it? Unbelievable! LOL! >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >> Thanks, Karen. Dr. Hamilton is a highly respected veterinarian, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >animals to the emergency clinic when they finally realized the homeo was >quack and their animal was dying... Unfortunately, it was usually too late. And on the other hand, there are many alternative veterinarians who have saved the lives of many pets who couldn't be saved with allopathic medicine. Homeopathic medicine has helped many of them. I have never ever heard of any animals dying from being treated homeopathically. I personally know of pets who were helped immensely with homeopathic medicine. There are always 2 sides to every story or experience. I believe that BOTH allopathic and alternative medicine have their places, and often a combination of the two can be very helpful. I have opened up my mind to not just treating animals' symptoms with antibiotics and steroids, but rather to have the whole animal treated and to prevent disease in a holistic way. I have found in my case, this has been extremely beneficial. Many many many people I've come across highly respect Dr. Hamilton, a veterinarian, something YOU are not. So unless you have something to add other than to slam me because I don't follow your line of thinking, then go away. All you do is attack when you don't agree with someone and call them names. You just can't believe that my animals did poorly on your beloved Science Diet. But in fact and in truth, they did do poorly. Now I would be a liar if I said they did great on Science Diet. But they did poorly on Science Diet. You just can't stand that my cats are healthier on their homemade raw diet than they were on commercial pet food. I don't know why a person would have a problem with that or why you even care what I feed my cats. Frankly, you can believe what you want. All you do is call me a liar or names, but yet you can't prove that I've ever lied about anything. What does that indicate about YOUR character? As to you being in my killfile, I just upgraded to XP and that's why you're not killfiled, but believe you will be again ;) Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > I have opened up my mind to not just treating animals' symptoms with >antibiotics and steroids, but rather to have the whole animal treated and to >prevent disease in a holistic way. Kum-by-ya...........la la la la la......la la la la..... > You just can't believe that my animals did poorly on your >beloved Science Diet. But in fact and in truth, they did do poorly. Now I >would be a liar if I said they did great on Science Diet. But they did >poorly >on Science Diet. Lauren, here you are AGAIN TAKING ANOTHER POT SHOT AT SCIENCE DIET!! LOL!!!! You are seriously a whack job. Your Hill's bashing has nothing to do w/ anything in this thread, yet here you bring it up AGAIN! You have no credibility left! I can just see you in "real life" constantly muttering throughout the day to anyone who'll listen to you that Science Diet is bad, and evil, and horrible, etc.........I bet the people at the bank or the grocery store run when they see you coming because they don't want to have to listen to your crazy stories repeated over and over again! >As to you being in my killfile, I just upgraded to XP and that's why you're >not >killfiled, but believe you will be again ;) Please tell us when you figure out how to use it because I'll wager that you never put Phil in your killfile. You like taking the abuse from him for some reason. BTW, if you killfiled him before, why are you responding to him? You're starting to sound just like Liz! I think you just like the attention and the only way to get it is to act the way that you are. >>From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > the lives of many pets who couldn't be saved with allopathic medicine. > Homeopathic medicine has helped many of them. <snip> There are also many "mainstream" vets that screw cats up so badly they have to be rushed to the ER, or just plain kill them. I don't think "mainstream" or "homeopathic" one way or another equals superior care. In my mind, and in the mind of many of both kinds of vets in my area, they are complimentary. Any *good* vet should know when they are beyond their level of competence and refer a patient on. If they don't they shouldn't practive medicine, no matter what kind of vet they are. I don't know where Phil lives, but if that's the attitude of the vets there, I wouldn't want to go see them - as I wouldn't want to see a human doctor with that kind of closed-minded attitude. But that's JMO. :) K > >>From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > have to be rushed to the ER, or just plain kill them. I don't think > "mainstream" or "homeopathic" one way or another equals superior care. You can't possibly be serious.... If you are, you're even more uninformed and/or misinformed than I thought. You obviously don't get out much or you have very little contact with the *real* veterinary community. You won't find maintream veterinary medicine on Quackwatch! But you sure will find Homeopathy! LOL! http://www.quackwatch.org/index.html "Unless the laws of chemistry have gone awry, most homeopathic remedies are too diluted to have any physiological effect...." ---Consumer Reports (January 1987) "Homeopathy No one can explain how it works - or how it could work. One homeopathic theory is that the molecules of the remedy substance leave an energy "memory" as they disappear, somewhat like a shadow, and that the body responds to it." woooooo...sounds a lot like voodoo and magic wand waving to me! LOL! "What is homeopathy? According to James Randi, in his book, An Encyclopedia of Claims, Frauds, Hoaxes of the Occult and Supernatural, says it is an excellent example of an attempt to make sympathetic magic work." "Homeopathy and its Kindred Delusions Homeopathy...a mingled mass of perverse ingenuity, of tinsel erudition, of imbecile credulity, and of artful misrepresentation..." "Homeopathic "remedies" are usually harmless, but their associated misbeliefs are not. When people are healthy, it may not matter what they believe. But when serious illness strikes, false beliefs can lead to disaster." Stephen Barrett, M.D "Stephen Barrett, M.D., a retired psychiatrist who resides in Allentown, Pennsylvania, has achieved national renown as an author, editor, and consumer advocate. In addition to heading Quackwatch, he is vice-president and of the National Council Against Health Fraud, a scientific advisor to the American Council on Science and Health, and a Fellow of the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP). In 1984, he received an FDA Commissioner's Special Citation Award for Public Service in fighting nutrition quackery. In 1986, he was awarded honorary membership in the American Dietetic Association. From 1987 through 1989, he taught health education at The Pennsylvania State University. He is listed in Marquis Who's Who in America and received the 2001 Distinguished Service to Health Education Award from the American Association for Health Education." "The problem with the "medicine" or doses used in homeopathy is that they are watered down or attenuated so much that not even a single molecule of the original substance remains. One of the counter arguments that one might hear to this claim is that the molecules have memory. It states that once a molecule come in contact with the "medicine" it retains the healing ability of that molecule and is thus able to pass it on to the next molecule, you know the old story about telling two friends who tells two friend and so forth and so on. This argument begs the question though, the water that we are drinking now may have once been the blood of Caesar, so how does that molecule know which substance that it came in contact over the last several billion years was actually the "medicine? As if the above was not far fetched enough homeopathic "researchers" are now examining a notion that the water can be magnetized and that the "healing" properties can be transmitted over a wire. I guess the old saying of taking two aspirin and call me in the morning will now be without the aspirin, just call me and I will transmit healing powers over the phone line. I am not making this up. As crazy as this sounds one would wonder how this still survives, but with such people as the royal family as proponents, as far as to have a homeopathic physician on staff. One more good reason I say for us people in Canada to cut all ties with the royal joke (personal opinion). One thing that we can hope for is all the people who believe in this crap will eventually die from it so we can clean the gene pool of the P.T. Barnum disease. " That was *great*! ROTFLMAO! I think that about sums up homeopathy! LOL! >>>>From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >>> [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > and/or misinformed than I thought. You obviously don't get out much or you > have very little contact with the *real* veterinary community. First of all, rude. And you wonder why I wrote the remark to Steve that I did. > You won't find maintream veterinary medicine on Quackwatch! But you sure > will find Homeopathy! LOL! http://www.quackwatch.org/index.html > "Unless the laws of chemistry have gone awry, most homeopathic remedies are > too diluted to have any physiological effect...." > ---Consumer Reports (January 1987) 1987? Get real! > "Homeopathy > No one can explain how it works - or how it could work. One homeopathic [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > woooooo...sounds a lot like voodoo and magic wand waving to me! LOL! And who wrote this? > "What is homeopathy? According to James Randi, in his book, An Encyclopedia > of Claims, Frauds, Hoaxes of the Occult and Supernatural, says it is an [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > to Health Education Award from the American Association for Health > Education." I'm aware of who Stephen Barrett is, and the kinds of people he goes after and yes, those people are quacks. Nor do they represent the majority of holistic doctor, nor does he focus on holistic vets - who have to attend not only regular vet school but then go for additional certification in holistic medicine. > "The problem with the "medicine" or doses used in homeopathy is that they > are watered down or attenuated so much that not even a single molecule of [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > I think that about sums up homeopathy! LOL! I could come up with some crazy sounding "mainstream" doctors as well. I certainly wouldn't think they represented the majority. I think the above example of water magnetization sounds whacked too. However, there are a lot of things to be learned from holistic and Eastern medicine, for *all* animals. If you don't agree, fine. But don't insult me for having a differing opinion, which by the way, I at least stated respectfully. But I guess that's too hard for you. Now, if you'll excuse me I have a sick cat to obsess over. Now, if you'll excuse > me I have a sick cat to obsess over. In consideration of your cat's problem, I won't continue this "debate". I hope he'll be ok. I mean that. Phil > Now, if you'll excuse > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Phil Thank you, I appreciate that. Have your kitties send some good vibes too, that's pack a punch. :) K >From: "Karen M." mskitty@easystreetNOSPAM.com >>>From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >There are also many "mainstream" vets that screw cats up so badly they >have to be rushed to the ER, or just plain kill them. Unfortunately, this is very true :( >I don't think >"mainstream" or "homeopathic" one way or another equals superior care. >In my mind, and in the mind of many of both kinds of vets in my area, >they are complimentary. Any *good* vet should know when they are beyond >their level of competence and refer a patient on. If they don't they >shouldn't practive medicine, no matter what kind of vet they are. That's it exactly :) Sometimes allopathic medicine helps and sometimes alternative medicine helps. It's all about whichever modality is going to help the animal best, IMO. But what also matters greatly is the skill and knowledge of the professional, whether allopathic or homeopathic, or whatever. >I >don't know where Phil lives, but if that's the attitude of the vets >there, I wouldn't want to go see them - as I wouldn't want to see a >human doctor with that kind of closed-minded attitude. But that's JMO. :) I wouldn't either :( ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > And on the other hand, there are many alternative veterinarians who have saved > the lives of many pets who couldn't be saved with allopathic medicine. ... like the weirdoes who claimed they cured cats with FIP with some magical herb? ROTFL! > Dr. Hamilton, a veterinarian, something YOU are not. "Brilliant" deduction! Did you figure that out all by yourself or did your whole fanatical cult help you? ROTFL! So unless you have > something to add other than to slam me because I don't follow your line of > thinking, then go away. You're right... I do slam you because I don't believe your line of conjured up, buit-to-suit, bullsh!t stories and "experiences" for every occasion...If even 1/10 of of your "me too" stories about adverse effects were true, your cats would have been dead years ago... You would have to be a complete and utter idiot to continue feeding a food that produced as many adverse effects as you claim Hill's produced in your cats.... which come to think of it, could be the case... you're not exactly the brightest bulb in the lamp... especially if you think people actually believe your stories.... All you do is attack when you don't agree with someone > and call them names. Right again! I certainly do attack liars like you and call liars like you liars. You just can't believe that my animals did poorly on your > beloved Science Diet. I lost track of how many dozens of times I've told you that I *believe* your cats could have done poorly on SD. It boggles the mind that you continue to say that I don't believe you. If every cat did well on one diet, there would only be one brand...I just don't believe, and I'm *sure* most rational people don't believe, your cats developed anywhere near number of the adverse effects you claim your cats developed. You would have to be a complete and utter idiot to continue feeding a food that produced as many adverse effects as you claim Hill's produced in your cats.... which in your case, is entirely possible. I don't know why a > person would have a problem with that or why you even care what I feed my cats. Don't flatter yourself, I don't care. However, I *do* care about your trying to scare people away from an excellent food that *millions* of cats have thrived on for *generations* with your conjured up, buit-to-suit bullsh!t stories for every occasion simply because you have an obsessive, pathological hatred for Hill's. > Frankly, you can believe what you want. All you do is call me a liar or > names, but yet you can't prove that I've ever lied about anything. *Reality* proves you're a *liar*.... or a complete and utter idiot... Tough call. I don't know of, nor does anyone I work with or anyone I'm associated with *combined*, including 4 vets with over a thousand feline patients fed Hill's, or three large pet stores *combined*, ever heard of any *hundred* cats *combined* that experienced 1/10 of the adverse effects you've claimed your cats experienced from Hill's. Yep... I'm pretty confident that you're an obsessed, compulsive if not pathological liar. > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > And on the other hand, there are many alternative veterinarians who have saved > the lives of many pets who couldn't be saved with allopathic medicine. ... like the quack homeos who claimed they cured cats with FIP with some magical herb? ROTFL! > Dr. Hamilton, a veterinarian, something YOU are not. "Brilliant" deduction! Did you figure that out all by yourself or did your whole fanatical cult help you? ROTFL! So unless you have > something to add other than to slam me because I don't follow your line of > thinking, then go away. You're right... I do slam you because I don't believe your line of conjured up, built-to-suit, bullsh!t stories and "experiences" for every occasion...If even 1/10 of of your "me too" stories about adverse effects were true, your cats would have been dead years ago... You would have to be a complete and utter idiot to continue feeding a food that produced as many adverse effects as you claim Hill's produced in your cats.... which come to think of it, could be the case... you're not exactly the brightest bulb in the lamp... especially if you think people actually believe your stories.... All you do is attack when you don't agree with someone > and call them names. Right again! I certainly do attack liars like you and call liars like you liars. You just can't believe that my animals did poorly on your > beloved Science Diet. I lost track of how many dozens of times I've told you that I *believe* your cats could have done poorly on SD. It boggles the mind that you continue to say that I don't believe you. If every cat did well on one diet, there would only be one brand...I just don't believe, and I'm *sure* most rational people don't believe, your cats developed anywhere near number of the adverse effects you claim your cats developed. You would have to be a complete and utter idiot to continue feeding a food that produced as many adverse effects as you claim Hill's produced in your cats.... which in your case, is entirely possible. I don't know why a > person would have a problem with that or why you even care what I feed my cats. Don't flatter yourself, I don't care. However, I *do* care about your trying to scare people away from an excellent food that *millions* of cats have thrived on for *generations* with your conjured up, built-to-suit bullsh!t stories for every occasion simply because you have an obsessive, pathological hatred for Hill's and fanatical obsession with carrion.... > Frankly, you can believe what you want. All you do is call me a liar or > names, but yet you can't prove that I've ever lied about anything. *Reality* proves you're a *liar*.... or a complete and utter idiot... Tough call. I don't know of, nor does anyone I work with or anyone I'm associated with *combined*, including 4 vets with over a thousand feline patients fed Hill's, or three large pet stores *combined*, ever heard of any *hundred* cats *combined* that experienced 1/10 of the adverse effects you've claimed your cats experienced from Hill's. Yep... I'm pretty confident that you're an obsessed, compulsive if not pathological liar. > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >animals to the emergency clinic when they finally realized the homeo was > >quack and their animal was dying... Unfortunately, it was usually too late. > Homeopathic medicine has helped many of them. I have never ever heard of any > animals dying from being treated homeopathically. I didn't say homeopathy "kills" animals, now did I? Homeopathy per se is harmless. It becomes *deadly* when it delays or denys *real* veterinary care. How many parents have been jailed because they denied their children *real* medical care because their religon only permitted spiritual or "natural" healing? The same law should apply to pets. I said: "homeos are *dangerous* because they deny or delay *real* veterinary care in the early stages of disease when *real* veterinary care has the greatest chance of effecting a cure." 'Many homeo-treated animals ended up in his hospital, most died, because their owners relied on homeos' "naturel remedies" and their other voodoo and magical concoctions and magic wand waving when simple and timely *real* veterinary care would have saved the animals' lives. They rushed their animals to the emergency clinic when they finally realized the homeo was quack and their animal was dying... Unfortunately, it was usually too late." I personally know of pets > who were helped immensely with homeopathic medicine. There are always 2 sides > to every story or experience. I believe that BOTH allopathic and alternative > medicine have their places, and often a combination of the two can be very > helpful. I have opened up my mind to not just treating animals' symptoms with > antibiotics and steroids, but rather to have the whole animal treated and to > prevent disease in a holistic way. You apparently have such an open mind that your brain fell out. You don't even know the difference between homeopathy and holistic medicine - They're *not* the same! LOL! Conversing with you is like I'm dueling with an unarmed person. What happened to your kill-file? *Another* lie? LOL! >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >You apparently have such an open mind that your brain fell out. You don't >even know the difference between homeopathy and holistic medicine - They're >*not* the same! LOL! Of course they're different!!!!!!!!! Homeopathy is a separate modality in and of itself. But you knew that, right? LOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Of course they're different!!!!!!!!! Homeopathy is a separate modality in and > of itself. But you knew that, right? I sure did, I told you they're not the same, didn't I? But apparently you didn't know..... >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >> Of course they're different!!!!!!!!! Homeopathy is a separate modality in >and >> of itself. But you knew that, right? > >I sure did, I told you they're not the same, didn't I? But apparently you >didn't know..... I'm sure I've researched a lot more about alternative medicine and the different modalities than you have. Nowhere did I ever say homeopathy and holistic treatment are the same, now did I? But of course you knew that, but good try, LOL ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > I'm sure I've researched You don't research... you chant fanatical au naturel cult canticles... If you actually did your own research instead of chanting fanatical au naturel cult canticles that you pick up from fanatical au naturel cult websites, you wouldn't post some of the absurd nonsense you do. For example, how about your "gem" about "white blood cells 'attacking' grains in the stomach"? LOL! ooo ooo, or how about your "formula" for balancing the Ca/P ratio by more than *doubling* the P (from 174 mg to 418 mg) with a mineral supplement instead of simply adding calcium... which you finally realized at the end of your post! LOL! Just a few months ago, you didn't even know what kcals and dry matter were... I'm not so sure that you still don't know or understand! a lot more about alternative medicine and the > different modalities than you have. Could be. But apparently it hasn't done you much good... It didn't take me anywhere near as long as its taking you to realize homeopathy is quackery. Nowhere did I ever say homeopathy and > holistic treatment are the same, now did I? You sure as hell implied they were. The immediate topic was homeopathy; holistic medicine wasn't mentioned until you dribbled from homeopathy to "holistic way" without missing a drop.... From: "PawsForThought" <darnit7@aol.comnolitter> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav Sent: Friday, November 07, 2003 8:44 AM Subject: Re: Allergies, Linear Granuloma, and Diet news:20031107084439.03702.00000227@mb-m01.aol.com "I have opened up my mind to not just treating animals' symptoms with antibiotics and steroids, but rather to have the whole animal treated and to prevent disease in a holistic way." Who was talking about holistic medicine? LOL! > But of course you knew that, but Of course I did. After all, I corrected you, now didn't I? Still having trouble configuring your new killfile? LOL! >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >You don't research... you chant fanatical au naturel cult canticles... If >you actually did your own research instead of chanting fanatical au naturel [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >instead of simply adding calcium... which you finally realized at the end of >your post! LOL! <patting Phil on the head> There, there, Phil, it's ok. I know you think there's a big bad cult out there. If it makes you feel better, keep ranting and raving away. But I think it can't be good for your health. Go ahead and manipulate what people say if it makes you feel better. Maybe you're making up for other "areas" where you are lacking, I don't know. >Nowhere did I ever say homeopathy and >> holistic treatment are the same, now did I? > >You sure as hell implied they were. The immediate topic was homeopathy; >holistic medicine wasn't mentioned until you dribbled from homeopathy to >"holistic way" without missing a drop.... I'm so sorry that's what you inferred from my post, Phil ;) >> But of course you knew that, but > >Of course I did. After all, I corrected you, now didn't I? No, but if it makes you feel better to think that :) >Still having trouble configuring your new killfile? LOL! No, I think I'll leave you out for a while. It's clear that you need my help :) Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com <Me Too Lauren's delusional ranting snipped> > No, I think I'll leave you out for a while. It's clear that you need my help Help from you? ROTFL! You really *are* delusional! LOL! Is that why you parrot information from my posts? And why you quote articles directly from my site?? LOL! Where exactly does your "fountain of wisdom" come from? You don't work with cats; you have no practical experience of your own. In fact you don't do anything other than tramp around the internet telling your conjured up, built-to-suit bullsh!t stories about your pathological hatred for Hill's and try to recruit supporters to help you disrupt this group with more obsessive, fanatical au naturel cult bullsh!t about your carrion diet! LOL! All your cultists combined don't have as many adverse effects stories as you conjure up! You're a real sick piece of work! LOL! Its funny enough that you actually think people believe your conjured-up "me too" bullsh!t stories. What's even funnier, is that you're so far gone that *you* actually believe your own conjured-up bullsh!t stories! ROTFL! You keep forgetting, I remember when you began posting - your were 26 cents short of a quarter -- You couldn't tell the difference between a hairball and turd without tasting it! You've learned more about all things feline from me than you have from all your cult sources combined! LOL! There's something seriously wrong with you.... You need some intensive help... *desperately*. >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >> >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >There's something seriously wrong with you.... You need some intensive >help... *desperately*. There, there, Phil. It's ok, really. I know you can't help these episodes of yours when you fall off the wagon ;) Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > There, there, Phil. It's ok, really. I know you can't help these episodes of > yours when you fall off the wagon ;) Good reply! About what I expected from you... You really are oblivious to reality and in total denial. LOL! You don't even realize you've just proven what I said is true! ROTFL! >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >> >There's something seriously wrong with you.... You need some intensive >> >help... *desperately*. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >You don't even realize you've just proven what I said is true! ROTFL! Feeling better yet, Phil? Hope you didn't have any more of those bad dreams about those scarey "cultists." ;) Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Feeling better yet, Phil? I sure do! I always get a good laugh from you're backwoods mentality. Hope you didn't have any more of those bad dreams > about those scarey "cultists." ;) You must be having another one of your delusions... Your fanatical cult isn't the least bit scary... In fact its quite the opposite... Its actually hilariously funny... in a fanatical religious fundamentalist kinda way! It seems that you're the one whose has the scary dreams... about all those imaginary paranoid conspiracies and secret plots between the pet food industry and the mainstream veterinary community to make cats sick so they can all make more money! Btw, have your cats experience any new adverse effects from Hill's foods, today... years after you stopped feeding the food? ROTFL! You're lucky you're pathological liar... The truth would be much too painful for you.... > Good reply! About what I expected from you... You really are oblivious to > reality and in total denial. LOL! > > You don't even realize you've just proven what I said is true! ROTFL! Hey, I found what maybe the favorite source of hard scientific data for some of the fringe lunatics on this NG. Note the "company" Anne Martin is keeping - a fitting collection for sure. http://www.nexusmagazine.com/ >From: rosebrook@sbcglobal.net (Steve Crane) >Hey, > I found what maybe the favorite source of hard scientific data for >some of the fringe lunatics on this NG. Note the "company" Anne Martin >is keeping - a fitting collection for sure. > >http://www.nexusmagazine.com/ Well, that explains a lot!! LOL! What a whackjob! > > Good reply! About what I expected from you... You really are oblivious to > > reality and in total denial. LOL! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > http://www.nexusmagazine.com/ LOL! You're right! Its certainly consistent with one of the au naturel cult fanatics' delusional "conspiracy theories" that the mainstream veterinary profession is "paying off" the pet food industry to manufacture food that makes pets sick so that vets will have a constant supply of patients! ROTFL! I think that one is beyond the fringe of lunacy! ooo ooo - and how about the conspiracy theory about people who recommend and support Hill's products work for Hill's or were "paid off" by Hill's. Hill's must be bankrupt from paying off all their customers and "employees".... Better watch your 401K! LOL! The "hard scientific data" must come from the same source that fanatical cultists just keep regurgitating - Most of the au naturel cult fanatics chant the same mantra - just in different keys. LOL! Hey, maybe that's where Me Too Lauren gets her ideas for her conjured up, "me too", bullsh!t stories about the plethora of adverse effects her cats experienced... LOL! >From: "Phil P." phil@maxshouse.com >Most of the au naturel cult fanatics >chant the same mantra - just in different keys. LOL! Hey, maybe that's >where Me Too Lauren gets her ideas for her conjured up, "me too", bullsh!t >stories about the plethora of adverse effects her cats experienced... LOL! That's ok, Phil, I understand why you have a need to call me a liar. I know you don't want anyone to believe that some animals do poorly on Hill's products. In my case, I thought because a vet recommended Hill's, that it had to be a good food for them. I thought their dry coats and large volume of stinky poops must be from something else. Afterall, the vet said Hill's was a good food. But when I changed vets, the new vet said stop feeding Hill's and let's see what happens. After following the new vet's instructions, my cats coats became shiney again and their poops much less in volume and no more stink. You know I'm not the first person whose animals didn't do well on Hill's, but again, I understand your need to deny it and call me a liar ;) Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >That's ok, Phil, I understand why you have a need to call me a liar. I know >you don't want anyone to believe that some animals do poorly on Hill's [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >a >good food. My mother-in-law feeds feral and "dropped off" cats, spays/neuters them, and then finds good homes for them. In the over 8 years that she has been doing this she has fed Science Diet and seen their coats go from dull and brittle to shiny, glossy, and bright and vivid. I have a co-worker whose 3 cats were pretty much in the same shape when she adopted them. She fed them Science Diet and voila--beautiful coats and healthy cats w/ small, non-stink poops. My experience has been the same. Several years ago, my wife and I took in some strays and nursed them back to health on Science Diet. Brittle, rough coats turned into shiny, soft coats. I hear a lot of other stories similiar to mine. I don't know what your problem was. >You know I'm not the first person whose animals didn't do well on >Hill's, but again, I understand your need to deny it and call me a liar ;) Lauren, I never understand why people need to lie. In fact, I can't fathom why YOU "understand" that people need to lie? >From: gaubster2@aol.com (GAUBSTER2) >In the over 8 years that she has been doing >this she has fed Science Diet and seen their coats go from dull and brittle [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >mine. > I don't know what your problem was. I don't know either. Different diets work for different cats, I guess. In my case, Science Diet did NOT work unfortunately. >Lauren, I never understand why people need to lie. In fact, I can't fathom >why >YOU "understand" that people need to lie? I can't understand why YOU say I'm lying. Tell me, with proof, what have I lied about? You just don't want to believe my cats did poorly on Science Diet. It's just easier to say someone is lying than to believe a food that you feed your cats does not work on other cats. I know you have a comprehension problem. I get that, as do many others on this newsgroup. But let me tell you again - my cats did poorly on Science Diet, plain and simple. That is a FACT, and nothing will change it. Believe me, I"m not the first person whose had animals that did poorly on Science Diet. No one cat food brand works for all cats, and the sooner you understand that, the better off you'll be. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >I can't understand why YOU say I'm lying. Tell me, with proof, what have I >lied about? You just don't want to believe my cats did poorly on Science [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >and >the sooner you understand that, the better off you'll be. It seems to me you are saying your cats did poorly on SD compared to other commercially available diets or a homemade diet. Gaubster's examples seemed to compare a diet of SD to the haphazard diets of strays and ferals. I'm sure any commercial food is more wholesome than what strays and ferals can pick out of the garbage. >It seems to me you are saying your cats did poorly on SD compared to other >commercially available diets or a homemade diet. Gaubster's examples seemed >to >compare a diet of SD to the haphazard diets of strays and ferals. I suppose you could read that into her comments, but that's just spin. The co-worker I mentioned (and other members of my family) had just the opposite experience than Lauren, and they WERE feeding other commercial diets (some of which were "premium"). |
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