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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / November 2003Food for flat nosed cat?
I was asked about this by a woman I know who adopted a flat-nosed Himalayan (sp?). Is there a particular kind of bowl or food that is best for such a cat? He has a harder time eating his food. She just got the Royal Canin for Persians, but I don't know if that is for Persians due to their flat faces, or some kind of special dietary requirements? Anybody?? Thanks! :) K > I was asked about this by a woman I know who adopted a flat-nosed > Himalayan (sp?). Is there a particular kind of bowl or food that is best > for such a cat? He has a harder time eating his food. She just got the > Royal Canin for Persians, but I don't know if that is for Persians due > to their flat faces, or some kind of special dietary requirements? > Anybody?? Thanks! :) Flat-faced or brachycephalic critters have a lot less mouth space in which to fit the same number of teeth as their cohorts of normal skull structure. The crowding leads to increased problems with plaque, tartar, oral health in general. So if I had an extreme Himi or Persian I'd be quite eager to get him or her on a good dental diet. Since the only commercial "dental diets" are kibbles, and we can generally agree that food with a high moisture content is best for cats, I think that a diet based on meaty bones would be MY first line of offense if I owned such a cat. I think that Royal Canin's food is specific to the cat's long hair more than its awkward skull structure. -Alison in OH >From: Alison Perera ask.me@cwru.edu.invalid >> I was asked about this by a woman I know who adopted a flat-nosed >> Himalayan (sp?). Is there a particular kind of bowl or food that is best [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >structure. The crowding leads to increased problems with plaque, tartar, >oral health in general. I wonder if Persians always had this problem or if it's just from the way they've been bred. It must be hard for them to breath with that pushed in nose. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > I wonder if Persians always had this problem or if it's just from the way > they've been bred. It must be hard for them to breath with that pushed in > nose. Originally, Persians did not have snub faces and looked very much like Angoras. They were gradually bred that way over time, and the "doll- face" still exists in some places, though is not nearly as popular as the flat face and I'm not sure if American clubs allow it as standard. IMO, it is much more attractive. I don't know why they would breed for such a flat face. Here's some pics of the doll-face variety of Persian as well as some brief history. The last link shows that some people do still breed for the doll-face rather than the flat-face. http://www.thecatsite.com/cat_breeds/breeds.php?a=persian http://www.traditionalcats.com/BreedInfo/FAQTPersian/PersianHistory.htm http://www.rockymountainpersians.com/doll_face_persians They do have a lot more breathing problems with that flattened facial structure from everything I've read. IMO, Purposefully breeding animals to be brachycephalic is cruel. It's like breeding for deformity. ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- > > I wonder if Persians always had this problem or if it's just from the way > > they've been bred. It must be hard for them to breath with that pushed in [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > http://www.traditionalcats.com/BreedInfo/FAQTPersian/PersianHistory.htm > http://www.rockymountainpersians.com/doll_face_persians I have a book with lots of the old Persian photos in it,, what a beautiful cat it WAS..... my friend has a Ragdoll x Persians which look just like the old Persians ... NO flat faced, they are beautiful looking cats. > http://www.thecatsite.com/cat_breeds/breeds.php?a=persian It's really sinful how they've bred PKD into persians along with the ugly face. It should be condemned. A friend of mine breeds poodles and was looking into finding a stud for her newest standard poodle bitch and found one she really likes. The problem is, the breeder will only allow her stud to mate with Labs. She breeds Labradoodles. My friend is completely against this. http://www.bc-labradoodles.com/ http://www.traditionalcats.com/BreedInfo/FAQTPersian/PersianHistory.ht m "Beautiful Duchess" looks like a lion! The more I look, there are a lot of old photos where they look like lions with a full mane. I love the look of the old persians much better than the way they look now. >From: "Cheryl" jlh@NOSPAMpetitmorte.net >It's really sinful how they've bred PKD into persians along with the >ugly face. It should be condemned. A friend of mine breeds poodles [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >My friend is completely against this. >http://www.bc-labradoodles.com/ How strange. I've never heard of these dogs before. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >> http://www.bc-labradoodles.com/ > > How strange. I've never heard of these dogs before. Me neither.... Shame on me. I missed the opportunity to shamelessly plug my friends poodle site. ;) http://www.paulaspoodles.atfreeweb.com/ > >> http://www.bc-labradoodles.com/ > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > poodle site. ;) > http://www.paulaspoodles.atfreeweb.com/ I used to have a poodle as a child, from when I was 2yrs till I was 14, she was attacked by Great Danes when we had her she was covered in stitches.... got her from a rescue centre, she was a lovely dog, never yapped but had a deep bark. We were heart broken when she died, I still shed a tear or 2 for our dear sweet Jose. >>> http://www.bc-labradoodles.com/ >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >poodle site. ;) >http://www.paulaspoodles.atfreeweb.com/ Yow. Maybe hint to your friend that information is a good thing, and there's no content cost on the Internet. She needs to post titles, OFA and CERF scores, and information on her lines before she's going to come off as anything but a BYB. Here's an exmaple of an excellent breeder's website: http://home1.gte.net/res0s12z/dogs.htm Click on each of the dogs' names to see what info she *should* be putting up there. Orchid Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid > Yow. Maybe hint to your friend that information is a good > thing, and there's no content cost on the Internet. She needs to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Click on each of the dogs' names to see what info she *should* > be putting up there. Thanks! I'll pass that on to her. The web site was really an after-thought but you're absolutely right about more information. :) >From: neko@ascendancy.net (Orchid) >>>> http://www.bc-labradoodles.com/ >>> [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > >Orchid It did say her site was under construction so that's probably why it didn't have titles, etc. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >It did say her site was under construction so that's probably why it didn't >have titles, etc. That is entirely possible, which is why I didn't go off about it. :) IMO, and maybe it's just the way I build a website, the *important* information like health clearances, titles, etc needs to go up first, and then you put in the cute pictures. Orchid Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid > > > http://www.thecatsite.com/cat_breeds/breeds.php?a=persian [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > My friend is completely against this. > http://www.bc-labradoodles.com/ While I don't like this new trend toward "hybrid breeds" I must admit that the one labradoodle I met was awesome. When I was young my brother's red doberman pinscer male mated with his friend's purebred weimereiner bitch. The puppies were awesome. The males looked like shiny light-colored silver-red dobes, no markings, with the grey eyes. The females looked like weimies with the same shiny, shimmering red coat. I would kill to have another one of those hybrids, now. -L. > > > http://www.thecatsite.com/cat_breeds/breeds.php?a=persian > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > -L. we had a Rhodesian Ridgeback cross Doberman Pinscher, and had to use a mussel when we took him out, vet classed him as a banned dog. (UK) we got him from rescue, he was a big, heavy dog, and we had to take him to training classes as he was an x guard dog for a pub, RSPCA had him removed from the pub because he wasn't trained just teased to make him vicious! it was hard work but turned out to be a beautiful, friendly dog in the end. Poor mite got cancer :-( > > > http://www.thecatsite.com/cat_breeds/breeds.php?a=persian > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > When I was young my brother's red doberman pinscer male mated with his > friend's purebred weimereiner bitch. The puppies were awesome. It's different when they choose to do it themselves! They were in ... uh ... heat? LOL! Anyway, the puppies occurred without human meddling. > > http://www.thecatsite.com/cat_breeds/breeds.php?a=persian > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > My friend is completely against this. > http://www.bc-labradoodles.com/ Well I looked at them! Poodles go blind at an early age don't they? or has this been bred out of them now days? I don't like the idea of Labradoodles either, but its a nice name! poodles need clipping, labs just moult! one is a slight built dog the other a heavy build! seems a very strange combination to me! > The problem is, the breeder > will only allow her stud to mate with Labs. She breeds Labradoodles. > My friend is completely against this. Why? All breeds that are popular today began as hybrids. They didn't just evolve from the hand of the Almighty. :) ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- >> The problem is, the breeder >> will only allow her stud to mate with Labs. She breeds Labradoodles. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >All breeds that are popular today began as hybrids. They didn't just >evolve from the hand of the Almighty. :) She's probably against it because there is no attempt to make an actual breed in 'Labradoodles' (nor in cockapoos or any of the other cutesy-named dogs). These people are simply breeding mixed-breed dogs, most often without any health testing. Pups for bucks, 99.9% of the time. Orchid Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid >> The problem is, the breeder >> will only allow her stud to mate with Labs. She breeds [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > All breeds that are popular today began as hybrids. They didn't just > evolve from the hand of the Almighty. :) She is against it because the labradoodle breeder hasn't waited between generations to make sure health problems aren't being bred into the hybrid before going on to the next. > She is against it because the labradoodle breeder hasn't waited > between generations to make sure health problems aren't being bred > into the hybrid before going on to the next. So she is not against the breed, but against an irresponsible breeder. Then I agree with her. People want to make a new breed, more power to them, but they should be as responsible as anyone and check for genetic defects and other health problems. ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- >People want to make a new breed, more power to them, but they should be >as responsible as anyone and check for genetic defects and other health >problems. The pics were cute and all, but I just couldn't help thinking, it's just another mixed breed dog. I guess I just think that way. But next time we have a lookalike at the shelter, now I can say "Oh, he must be a Labradoodle." LOL. >> She is against it because the labradoodle breeder hasn't waited >> between generations to make sure health problems aren't being bred >> into the hybrid before going on to the next. > >So she is not against the breed, but against an irresponsible breeder. >Then I agree with her. The problem is that no one is actually trying to make a breed out of Labradoodles. There is no attempt to develop them to the point where they breed true -- it's just litter after litter of F1s (aka mutts) with a cutesy name. >People want to make a new breed, more power to them, but they should be >as responsible as anyone and check for genetic defects and other health >problems. I agree, but only as long as there is a true, sincere effort to create a new breed. Alaskan Klee Kais are a good example of actually trying to make a new breed, the 'doodle' and 'poo' breeds aren't. Orchid Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid > The problem is that no one is actually trying to make a breed > out of Labradoodles. There is no attempt to develop them to the point > where they breed true -- it's just litter after litter of F1s (aka > mutts) with a cutesy name. Oh, gotcha. That's a good way to fleece people out of money, I suppose. Not much else. > I agree, but only as long as there is a true, sincere effort > to create a new breed. Alaskan Klee Kais are a good example of > actually trying to make a new breed, the 'doodle' and 'poo' breeds > aren't. I thought they were. Shows you how up I am in the dog world. What's a Klee Kai? ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- >> I agree, but only as long as there is a true, sincere effort >> to create a new breed. Alaskan Klee Kais are a good example of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >I thought they were. Shows you how up I am in the dog world. >What's a Klee Kai? Essentially miniature huskies. Do a Google search on 'Klee Kai' -- they're terribly cute, and my interactions with them have been fairly positive. They do, however, still retain some of the more problematic husky traits (can't be trusted offlead, stubborn, can chew through solid wood). Orchid Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid > Essentially miniature huskies. Do a Google search on 'Klee > Kai' -- they're terribly cute, and my interactions with them have been > fairly positive. They do, however, still retain some of the more > problematic husky traits (can't be trusted offlead, stubborn, can chew > through solid wood). Oh, they're adorable! The site I was looking at says they are like Miniature Alaskan Huskies made to be companions. That's a decent reason to make a new breed - the breed is cool, but too active and large for a normal home environment. I thought that's what they were doing with the poos and such (no shedding by crossing with poodles), but apparently not, since there is no standard or anything that I can find...the few sites I checked out, the dogs don't even vaguely look similar a lot of times. Just a way to make money. *sigh* ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- >From: kaeli infinite.possibilities@NOSPAMatt.net >mb-m18.aol.com>, darnit7 >@aol.comnolitter enlightened us with... [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >http://www.traditionalcats.com/BreedInfo/FAQTPersian/PersianHistory.htm >http://www.rockymountainpersians.com/doll_face_persians Wow, those were really beautiful cats. I wish the Persian breed had all stayed like that and not this flat faced one. Thanks for the links, Kaeli :) Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm (...) > Here's some pics of the doll-face variety of Persian as well as some > brief history. The last link shows that some people do still breed for > the doll-face rather than the flat-face. > http://www.thecatsite.com/cat_breeds/breeds.php?a=persian > http://www.traditionalcats.com/BreedInfo/FAQTPersian/PersianHistory.htm > http://www.rockymountainpersians.com/doll_face_persians I guess the third link above shows somewhat less extreme faces, but they are still rather unlike the 'historical' cats in link 2. Those historical cats look wonderful, absolutely unlike the current abortions (e.g., this 'un http://www.traditionalcats.com/BreedInfo/FAQTPersian/Beautiful%20Duchess.jpg is amazing). On the Siamese front, I'd like something to exist somewhere between the Applehead and Extreme variants, although the extremes do seem to be becoming more so. Must admit, if I was in the Big Chair for a day, I'd eliminate all breeds that are 'unfit' in a Darwinian sense (unless they actually emerged naturally, and the breeding was designed to maintain the existence of the breed ... manx cats might be an example of this). Steve. > >From: Alison Perera ask.me@cwru.edu.invalid > > I wonder if Persians always had this problem or if it's just from the way > they've been bred. It must be hard for them to breath with that pushed in > nose. They have been bred for the flat face (or what I think of as a "pushed-in" face), and I don't understand why. The Persians I saw when I was growing up were truly beautiful. Now they have this constant, bred-in disgruntled or angry look. I think this is the reason I prefer the looks of mixed-breed cats with some Persian, not th purebred Persians (plus, I value the idea of adopting mixed-breed cats from shelters). More important than looks, now they have breathing problems that the original Persians did not have. MaryL >From: "MaryL" carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER >> >From: Alison Perera ask.me@cwru.edu.invalid >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >MaryL That's so sad, for the cat, and pathetic that the judges or whoever decides the breed standard would allow this :( Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >That's so sad, for the cat, and pathetic that the judges or whoever decides the >breed standard would allow this :( Allow it? They created it. Same for the bat-faced siamese versus the traditional applehead. It's why I've come to consider cat shows/the whole breeder circuit menaces. If you are trying to preserve traditionally regional variations, breed for love, not egoboo and prizes. And if you are breeding freaks, deformities, and crossbreeds, you should be shamed, not feted. Bleah. Laura  SignatureLaura Burchard -- lhb@radix.net -- http://www.radix.net/~lhb "Good design is clear thinking made visible." -- Edward Tufte >From: lhb@radix.net (Laura Burchard) >>That's so sad, for the cat, and pathetic that the judges or whoever decides >the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >Laura If judges created this, I think it's horrible :( How can someone sacrifice the health of a cat like that. Argh I know what you mean about the Siamese. I had a Siamese growing up and she looked nothing like the ones I see nowadays. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > If judges created this, I think it's horrible :( How can someone sacrifice the > health of a cat like that. Argh > I know what you mean about the Siamese. I had a Siamese growing up and she > looked nothing like the ones I see nowadays. I didn't even realize they'd messed up the Siamese so bad until you guys brought this up. I don't see them much anymore, and the ones I do see are appleheads. Then I went and looked at the breed page over at cat fanciers. Damn! They're ugly now! Some people still breed the applehead, though, as I found some sites when I was looking around. Here's the pretty applehead ("traditional")... http://www.siamesekittens.com/ Here's CF breed profile with the ones that look like a Sphynx with fur. http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/profiles/siamese.html WTF happened? *shakes head* ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- > > If judges created this, I think it's horrible :( How can someone sacrifice the > > health of a cat like that. Argh [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > ------------------------------------------------- > ~kaeli~ Idiotic people happened, that's who! MaryL >ntp.lucent.com> > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >WTF happened? >*shakes head* ---------------------------------------------- >~kaeli~ Stupid people, altering the way a cat looks so they can win their stupid rosettes from the stupid judges who start the whole thing in motion by the cats they choose as "winners." Sherry >>ntp.lucent.com> >> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Sherry Here's the CF breed profile for the Persian - http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/profiles/persian.html Look at the cat pictured, it doesn't even *look* like a freakin' cat! It looks like a mogwi or something!! K > Here's the CF breed profile for the Persian - > http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/profiles/persian.html [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > K I've seen that pic of the red-eyed, black one before. I still say it looks like an owl. >> Look at the cat pictured, it doesn't even *look* like a freakin' >> cat! It >> looks like a mogwi or something!! >> >> K "Open, pansy-like faces?" Gimme a break. Did anyone else pick up on *this* sentence:: "Playful but never demanding, they love to pose and will drape themselves in a favorite window or chair, enhancing the decor in much the same way as a treasured painting." Now, honestly. Who in the world describes a cat as "enhancing the decor." Sherry >>> Look at the cat pictured, it doesn't even *look* like a freakin' >>> cat! It [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Sherry That is so wrong. I didn't see that. >From: sriddles@aol.comkitty (Sherry ) >"Open, pansy-like faces?" Gimme a break. Did anyone else pick up on *this* >sentence:: "Playful but never demanding, they love to pose and will drape [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Sherry That's ridiculous :( ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm The kind of person who would breed a cat to look like an owl... ;) >>>Look at the cat pictured, it doesn't even *look* like a freakin' >>>cat! It [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Sherry >From: "Cheryl" jlh@NOSPAMpetitmorte.net >I've seen that pic of the red-eyed, black one before. I still say it >looks like an owl. LOL, GMTA :) ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: "Karen M." mskitty@easystreetNOSPAM.com >Here's the CF breed profile for the Persian - >http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/profiles/persian.html > >Look at the cat pictured, it doesn't even *look* like a freakin' cat! It >looks like a mogwi or something!! Yikes! It kinda looks like an owl. ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: kaeli infinite.possibilities@NOSPAMatt.net >I didn't even realize they'd messed up the Siamese so bad until you guys >brought this up. I don't see them much anymore, and the ones I do see >are appleheads. Then I went and looked at the breed page over at cat >fanciers. Damn! They're ugly now! I have a picture of my childhood Siamese on the second page of my webpage, very last picture (only black & white one). You can see she was the traditional kind (is this what they call applehead?): http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe/1 Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: kaeli infinite.possibilities@NOSPAMatt.net > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html > Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm Yes, Amos was what I refer to as "applehead." And wasn't he beautiful? Why take a lovely cat like the traditional (applehead) Siamese (or the traditional Persion) and deliberately breed for extreme characteristics -- replete with health problems? MaryL >From: "MaryL" carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER >> >From: kaeli infinite.possibilities@NOSPAMatt.net >> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >MaryL Thanks, Mary :) Amos was actually a girl. The people we got her from had already named her before they realized she was a female, so the name just stuck. The Siamese these days sure look so different. I don't understand why breeders wouldn't want to keep the original look. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm "PawsForThought" <darnit7@aol.comnolitter> wrote in message news:20031031161023.24477.00000043@mb-> I have a picture of my childhood Siamese on the second page of my webpage, very > last picture (only black & white one). You can see she was the traditional > kind (is this what they call applehead?): > > http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe/1 All your cats are soo beautiful! Is Meesha a charcoal grey? I love Mickey's markings. The photo of your Siamese makes me want to adopt one from a shelter! >From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com >All your cats are soo beautiful! Is Meesha a charcoal grey? Thanks so much, Mary, not only for the compliment, but for affirming what I keep telling my husband. Meesha is indeed charcoal grey. He insists that she is brown. He says torties (which Meesha is) are brown and beige. I don't know about that, but I do know there is no doubt that Meesha is grey, and not brown. >I love Mickey's markings. Thanks :) >The photo of your Siamese makes me want to adopt one from a shelter! Amos was truly a beautiful cat and I still miss her. A friend of mine got one of the "new" Siamese. The cat is a sweetie but he is very extreme looking for sure. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >> From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > brown and beige. I don't know about that, but I do know there is no > doubt that Meesha is grey, and not brown. I love grey cats. Sometimes there is some brown in them in the sun, maybe that is what he means. Of course, I love brown cats too. :0) >> I love Mickey's markings. > > Thanks :) > >> The photo of your Siamese makes me want to adopt one from a shelter! > Amos was truly a beautiful cat and I still miss her. A friend of > mine got one of the "new" Siamese. The cat is a sweetie but he is > very extreme looking for sure. I have seen siamese pop up in litters of tabbies and torties at the shelters where I volunteer. There was a thread in one of the cat groups about it somewhere. Siamese with pretty faces and head shapes are all too common at the shelters around here. I need a bigger house and a more understanding husband! > Lauren > ________ > See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe > Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html > http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html > Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com >>> From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >I love grey cats. Sometimes there is some brown in them in the sun, >maybe that is what he means. Of course, I love brown cats too. :0) No, he really thinks she is brown and has no grey in her. I tell him he's colorblind :) >I have seen siamese pop up in litters of tabbies and torties >at the shelters where I volunteer. There was a thread in one of >the cat groups about it somewhere. Siamese with pretty faces and >head shapes are all too common at the shelters around here. I need >a bigger house and a more understanding husband! I bet they're beautiful cats :) Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >> No, he really thinks she is brown and has no grey in her. I tell >> him he's colorblind :) You know, lots of men are. Also, I just think color doesn't interest some men enough to really pay attention. Does he ever wear the wrong color socks? >>> I have seen siamese pop up in litters of tabbies and torties >>> at the shelters where I volunteer. There was a thread in one of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> >> I bet they're beautiful cats :) They really are. Lauren, I am not generally one of these super sappy types, but the first day I stood in a room of the shelter where I got my baby Cheeks changed mylife. I cannot describe the feeling--I just wanted them all and felt so terrible that I couldn't give them all homes. They were all very sweet and socialized, in an upstairs bedroom in kennels that lined the walls, some walking around, none meowing, most peering at me and rubbing up against me like "take MEEEEEE! I'm nice!" When I went home to decide I told everyone about these cats. Nobody cared. It amazes me that there are people who live totally alone and do not want a cat "because of the mess." Anyway, since then I have felt myself to be on the decidedly eccentric side about cats. Mostly because I feel so alone in my affection for them. Except here, of course! >> Lauren >> ________ >> See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe >> Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html >> http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html >> Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >From: "Mary" rosefan@email.com >>> No, he really thinks she is brown and has no grey in her. I tell >>> him he's colorblind :) >> > You know, lots of men are. Also, I just think color doesn't interest >some men enough to really pay attention. Does he ever wear the wrong >color socks? He probably would except all his socks are black, LOL. >>>> I have seen siamese pop up in litters of tabbies and torties >>>> at the shelters where I volunteer. There was a thread in one of [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >feel >so alone in my affection for them. Except here, of course! Yes, I know the feeling. I remember when my last cat died, a woman at work says "oh, so why don't you get another cat." She just didn't get it :( Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >> From: kaeli infinite.possibilities@NOSPAMatt.net > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe/1 Beautiful kitty. :) >>> From: kaeli infinite.possibilities@NOSPAMatt.net >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> >Beautiful kitty. :) She looks like Princess (RB age 16) . I still miss her. MLB >>>> From: kaeli infinite.possibilities@NOSPAMatt.net >>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> > She looks like Princess (RB age 16) . I still miss her. MLB I had a sort of flashback of my RB kitty Marley tonight. My sister adopted a small tiger cat with huge paws 2 years ago from our SPCA. He was a tiny thing. Former feral. Socialized very nicely before she adopted him. I've seen him several times over the last couple of years but only fleetingly. Tonight I was over there and saw just how BIG he has grown! He is HUGE! Just like my Marley, same markings, same size and length of body. He sat there giving their GS a bath on his face. :) >From: "Cheryl" jlh@NOSPAMpetitmorte.net >43@mb-m29.aol.com, >PawsForThought <darnit7@aol.comnolitter> composed with style: [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> >Beautiful kitty. :) Thanks, Cherl :) ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > >From: "MaryL" carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > ________ When you see extreme cases in person, it makes you want to cry. I cried in the car after seeing my niece's two and, as a close second impulse, had my first urge to slap to spit out of my spoiled, materialistic, snotty little niece. No, I wouldn't do it. But honest to Dog one would expect more sense from a Labrapoodle. ;) > > I was asked about this by a woman I know who adopted a flat-nosed > > Himalayan (sp?). Is there a particular kind of bowl or food that is best [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > -Alison in OH Alison, Thanks for the tips. I don't think this woman is going to be going down the meaty bones route, but I'll pass along the info anyway. I think the cat is actually having more trouble getting the food in his mouth than "normal" cats. Any ideas? > > > I was asked about this by a woman I know who adopted a flat-nosed > > > Himalayan (sp?). Is there a particular kind of bowl or food that is best [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > think the cat is actually having more trouble getting the food in his > mouth than "normal" cats. Any ideas? I know this is not going to be helpful so I apologize in advance. But the only thing that could help the larger situation is if you could somehow stop cruel idiots from breeding these cats this way. Sick, shallow cretins decide on some "fashion" in looks for helpless animals then breed deformity in. My niece (offspring of a woman who taught her to know better) had TWO of these sad monsters, for which she paid hundreds of dollars a piece. They have literally NO face, seen from a distance. One sad little boy died from tumors at less than a year old. The girl lives on but has constant problems with her respiratory system, growths, etc. She cannot eat without getting a face full of food but little in her mouth. This when perfectly beautiful strays are being put to death every day. I am disgusted with my niece and the whole subject. And seriously, I don't know what to do about it, if there is anything. >>Alison Perera <ask.me@cwru.edu.invalid> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 84 lines] > > And seriously, I don't know what to do about it, if there is anything. Mary, not helpful to the particular problem, maybe, but I agree with what you say. It makes me angry that people do this kind of stuff to animals, it's disgusting. I'm just glad this woman didn't buy the cat, she adopted him, so at least *she* didn't line some dumba*s's pockets. I've been thinking - could the problem possibly be that his eyes are too close to the plate, so it kind of freaks him out? > > I know this is not going to be helpful so I apologize in advance. But > > the only thing that could help the larger situation is if you could [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > I've been thinking - could the problem possibly be that his eyes are too > close to the plate, so it kind of freaks him out? I think the nose may be even more of a problem than the eyes (but that is a possibility I hadn't considered previously). Breeders have taken an absolutely gorgeous cat (the "traditional" Persian) and created what is often a truly ugly, punched-in face. The nose and mouth are now so closely aligned that I think they may have trouble without getting food in the nostrils. Your comment about the eyes makes me think that could also be a problem! MaryL > > > I know this is not going to be helpful so I apologize in advance. But > > > the only thing that could help the larger situation is if you could [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > MaryL As we have been looking at cats to replace (well, not replace-succeed may be a better term) our late lamented companion of 19 years (sniff!) I've spent some time looking at various cats and I agree, what a shame the thing that breeders have done to some Persians. It's not too hard to find pics of "traditional Persians" as you refer to them, and as you say, they're so pretty (although most of the ones I've seen aren't my cup of tea personality-wise). I wonder what got in people's heads that they felt like they wanted to breed cats to get the extreme flat face that some have. Poor things, to be born with problems that have basically been designed in by people for vanity's sake. > I've been thinking - could the problem possibly be that his eyes are too > close to the plate, so it kind of freaks him out? I imagine so! And it must be nearly impossible to eat without getting food in the nostrils. Poor babies. Mary wrote: >>Alison Perera <ask.me@cwru.edu.invalid> wrote in message > > news:<ask.me-2EB6DD.14510430102003@eeyore.ins.cwru.edu>... > >>>In article <bnrmka$6kv$1@nntp.psmfc.org>, >>> "Karen M." <mskitty@easystreetNOSPAM.com> wrote: <snip> I've been thinking - could the problem possibly be that his eyes are too close to the plate, so it kind of freaks him out? We have had two domestic longhair cats with shorter than average noses but not flat faces. Both of them splashed in their water bowl before drinking. I often wondered if this wasn't to help them see the water level as their eyes were pretty close for focusing. Neither one of them like(d) to eat out of bowls at floor level. Fluffer used to pick up pieces of the dry food with his paw and eat it from his paw. Isabel lays down next to the bowl. I'm thinking I should get something a little higher for her or put a shallower bowl up on something to raise the level of the food for her. Maybe adjusting the height off the floor for a flat nosed cat might help by presenting it at an angle they can get to easier without burying their nose it it. W > Mary wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > W Thank you! I'll pass this info on. :) circa 30 Oct 2003 15:46:00 -0800, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, Karen M. (misskittymcgill71@yahoo.com) said, > Thanks for the tips. I don't think this woman is going to be going > down the meaty bones route, but I'll pass along the info anyway. I > think the cat is actually having more trouble getting the food in his > mouth than "normal" cats. Any ideas? Put the food on a plate instead of in a bowl. I have one cat who has trouble with kibble in bowls, but no problems with it on a plate. Laura SignatureHow do people go to sleep? I'm afraid I've lost the knack. ...I might repeat to myself, slowly and soothingly, a list of quotations beautiful from minds profound; if I can remember any of the damn things. -Dorothy Parker >I was asked about this by a woman I know who adopted a flat-nosed >Himalayan (sp?). Is there a particular kind of bowl or food that is best [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >K Whatever she feeds her Persian, it seems to me a saucer would be easier than a bowl for the cat. MLB > I was asked about this by a woman I know who adopted a flat-nosed > Himalayan (sp?). Is there a particular kind of bowl or food that is best [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > K Persians tend to have cardiomyopathy, so I'd be sure she is dilligent in keeping the kitty vetted, and avoid foods which might contribute to heat disease (ask the vet). As for food, wet food will be easier to eat although Persians also tend to have bad teeth, so again, she will have to keep on top of it. At the vet we fed the Perisans in a wide, flat bowl much like a saucer. -L. > I was asked about this by a woman I know who adopted a flat-nosed > Himalayan (sp?). Is there a particular kind of bowl or food that is best [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > K According to the work they did in France, the funny "almond" shape makes it easier for these cats to pick up. There were no particular nutrient changes between the Persian version and other adult cat products. Ah, thanks! I'll pass this along too. :) K >>I was asked about this by a woman I know who adopted a flat-nosed >>Himalayan (sp?). Is there a particular kind of bowl or food that is best [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > nutrient changes between the Persian version and other adult cat > products. |
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