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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / October 2003UPDATE: Unexplained weight loss in 8.5 yr old male cat
I took my cat for an ultrasound this morning and unfortunately, it didn't come back with good results that I was SO optimistically looking forward to receiving. Apparently, he has lumps and/or masses spreading throughout his abdomen. On the mezzentary (sp?)? The doctor said he either has FIP (feline infectious peritonitis) (sp?) or carcinoma - tosis? She has been really bothered by his weight loss and is now seeing why. He really had a GREAT weekend - eating great and doesn't look sick at all. UGH!!!! She would like to either try and get some abdominal fluid to look at the cells or do exploratory surgery. I guess that's the only way to get a specific and more accurate diagnosis. Any insight on this new development? I feel SO badly for the little guy and I feel like I'm in denial...he seems fine. *sigh* > I took my cat for an ultrasound this morning and unfortunately, it > didn't come back with good results that I was SO optimistically [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > diagnosis. Any insight on this new development? I feel SO badly for > the little guy and I feel like I'm in denial...he seems fine. *sigh* I'm sorry to hear about your kitty. My two cents... FIP is a horrible, progressive illness with no cure. Cancer can sometimes be treated, but the treatment can be worse than the illness. Get what tests you need to be *sure*. If it IS FIP for certain (only a biopsy can tell for sure, don't let the vet guess, as they can guess wrong like mine did), the cat should be put to sleep, as it's all down hill from here and a very nasty way to die (systemic organ failure, fluid retention in the abdomen...). If it is cancer, the vet may be able to treat it or even get rid of it, depending on if the cancer has spread to the lymph nodes. If the cancer has spread to the lymph nodes, I would not put my cat through treatment, but let him live in peace until his quality of life no longer justifies his suffering, then let him go in peace. If the cancer has not spread, I would get whatever treatment the vet suggests, including surgery and chemo. I would also get a second, and possibly third, opinion before deciding on euthanasia. It saved my cat's life - it might save yours'. Just my opinion. YMMV. Best of luck and purrs to you and yours from me and mine... ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- > My two cents... > FIP is a horrible, progressive illness with no cure. Kaeli, how do cats get this? Is there anything we can do to keep them safe from it? >> My two cents... >> FIP is a horrible, progressive illness with no cure. > >Kaeli, how do cats get this? Is there anything we can do to keep them >safe from it? FIP is a mutation of the relatively benign feline coronavirus. Most cats are exposed to the coronavirus at some point, and a very few of them will develop FIP later. The only way to prevent FIP is to make sure your cat is never exposed to the coronavirus, but most cats from catteries and shelters have already been exposed. Keep in mind that FIP is very difficult to diagnose and most cats diagnosed with FIP do not have it. If it were me, I'd want to pursue another possible cause and treatment, because most of the time it isn't FIP. However, examination of the fluid may help a vet decide whether or not FIP is more likely. >From: yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) >FIP is a mutation of the relatively benign feline coronavirus. Most cats are >exposed to the coronavirus at some point, and a very few of them will develop [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >examination of the fluid may help a vet decide whether or not FIP is more >likely. A friend of mine's cat just got diagnosed with FIP, supposedly the wet kind and in the last stages. The vet had a really crappy bedside manner and I told her she should get a second opinion anyway. Do you think it's possible the vet could have misdiagnosed something like this? ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > A friend of mine's cat just got diagnosed with FIP, supposedly the wet kind and > in the last stages. The vet had a really crappy bedside manner and I told her > she should get a second opinion anyway. Do you think it's possible the vet > could have misdiagnosed something like this? > ________ It is very hard to mistake the last stages of effusive FIP for anything but, IMO. I've seen photos, and they all have a characteristic massive bloating of the abdomen that makes it look like the cat got a sub-q to the tummy with about a gallon of water. WARNING!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!! WARNING!!! GRAPHIC PHOTOS. Not suitable for all audiences. Pictures of FIP cats and necropsy photo. First pic is cat while alive. Second pic is graphic necropsy, showing abdominal cavity. Last pic is live cat. From: http://www.cvm.okstate.edu/~groups/students/web/2001/virology/ Abdominal distension caused by ascites: http://www.cvm.okstate.edu/ ~groups/students/web/2001/virology/RNAviruses/Coronaviridae/FIP_abdomina l_distension.jpg Lesions of the effusive form on necropsy: http://www.cvm.okstate.edu/ ~groups/students/web/2001/virology/RNAviruses/Coronaviridae/FIP_wet_form .jpg Fluffy opacity of the anterior chamber of the eye due to hemmorhage and fibrin clot formation characteristic of the non-effusive form: http://www.cvm.okstate.edu/ ~groups/students/web/2001/virology/RNAviruses/Coronaviridae/FIP_fluffy_o pacity_anterior_chamber_eye.jpg ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- >From: kaeli infinite.possibilities@NOSPAMatt.net >darnit7 >@aol.comnolitter enlightened us with... [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] >~groups/students/web/2001/virology/RNAviruses/Coronaviridae/FIP_fluffy_o >pacity_anterior_chamber_eye.jpg Thanks very much for the info, Kaeli. I was hoping that her vet might have possibly misdiagnosed the FIP :( Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >A friend of mine's cat just got diagnosed with FIP, supposedly the wet kind >and >in the last stages. The vet had a really crappy bedside manner and I told >her >she should get a second opinion anyway. Do you think it's possible the vet >could have misdiagnosed something like this? Yes, it's quite possible, since the only definitive tests are biopsy or post-mortem analysis of tissue. And even then, one testing lab reports that only a third of the samples sent in test positive for FIP. So even when FIP is strongly suspected, it often is not FIP. How was this cat diagnosed? If it were me, I'd certainly get a second opinion. If it's not FIP, it may be something treatable, or it may not, but if it were my cat I would be very reluctant to accept a diagnosis of FIP--since it's more often than not something else. >From: yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) >>A friend of mine's cat just got diagnosed with FIP, supposedly the wet kind >>and [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >reluctant to accept a diagnosis of FIP--since it's more often than not >something else. Thanks, Yngver. I'm calling to call her today to see how the cat was diagnosed. My friend had taken the cat in and had her 14 year old daughter with her. When she asked what the diagnosis for her cat was, the vet said "your cat is going to die." Needless to say, her daughter became quite upset. I think the daughter needs to know the truth, but I don't think learning it like that was a good way. The vet was also blaming my friend for letting the cat outside. I don't know if he even did a biopsy but I'm going to ask her. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm > The vet was also blaming my friend for letting the > cat outside. I don't know if he even did a biopsy but I'm going to ask her. While I think letting your cat go out unattended is irresponsible, it doesn't cause FIP. Most cats who are exposed to coronovirus don't develop FIP. And most are exposed quite young while in catteries and shelters. That was not right of the vet, IMO.  Signature------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- >Thanks, Yngver. I'm calling to call her today to see how the cat was >diagnosed. My friend had taken the cat in and had her 14 year old daughter [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >like that was a good way. The vet was also blaming my friend for letting the >cat outside. I don't know if he even did a biopsy but I'm going to ask her. Well, I would be very suspicious of a vet that gives a diagnosis of FIP right on the spot, without any lab tests. I don't know what the vet did to come up with that diagnosis, but just examining the cat is certainly not sufficient. As pointed out, whether or not the cat goes outside has little to do with a diagnosis of FIP. I really think your friend should get a second opinion. >From: yngver@aol.comnospam (Yngver) >Well, I would be very suspicious of a vet that gives a diagnosis of FIP right >on the spot, without any lab tests. I don't know what the vet did to come up >with that diagnosis, but just examining the cat is certainly not sufficient. > >As pointed out, whether or not the cat goes outside has little to do with a >diagnosis of FIP. I really think your friend should get a second opinion. I wasn't able to get a hold of her today so I don't know yet what the vet did to come up with the diagnosis. I really hope her cat doesn't have this FIP ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >>> My two cents... >>> FIP is a horrible, progressive illness with no cure. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > exposed to the coronavirus, but most cats from catteries and shelters have > already been exposed. > Keep in mind that FIP is very difficult to diagnose and most cats diagnosed > with FIP do not have it. If it were me, I'd want to pursue another possible > cause and treatment, because most of the time it isn't FIP. However, > examination of the fluid may help a vet decide whether or not FIP is more > likely. I second (third, fourth) the point that FIP is extremely hard to diagnose and is often diagnosed incorrectly. My cat, who was retaining fluid, was diagnosed with FIP (the type that's supposed to result in death with in a couple of weeks) five years ago. Whatever was wrong, it wasn't FIP. >I second (third, fourth) the point that FIP is extremely hard to >diagnose and is often diagnosed incorrectly. My cat, who was retaining >fluid, was diagnosed with FIP (the type that's supposed to result in >death with in a couple of weeks) five years ago. Whatever was wrong, it >wasn't FIP. The shame of it is that too often when a cat is presumed to have FIP, both the vet and the owner give up. Many a cat has been euthanized needlessly, or not treated, when in fact the cat may have been saved because it was not FIP. > >I second (third, fourth) the point that FIP is extremely hard to > >diagnose and is often diagnosed incorrectly. My cat, who was retaining [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > vet and the owner give up. Many a cat has been euthanized needlessly, or not > treated, when in fact the cat may have been saved because it was not FIP. Are you stating fact or opinion here? >> The shame of it is that too often when a cat is presumed to have FIP, both >the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >Are you stating fact or opinion here? If a major testing lab states that only 18 percent of the tissue samples (usually obtained post-mortem) sent to be tested for FIP turn out to be FIP, what do you think? >I second (third, fourth) the point that FIP is extremely hard to >diagnose and is often diagnosed incorrectly. My cat, who was retaining >fluid, was diagnosed with FIP (the type that's supposed to result in >death with in a couple of weeks) five years ago. Whatever was wrong, it >wasn't FIP. That is what makes me still feel so bad for my neighbor's cat. She was a two year old, who had been treated for a UTI for a few weeks, but still had some signs of illness, I can't remember what, but nothing horrible. Then one day she started having rapid breathing (although I still remember seeing her in the window that morning when I went to work), neighbor took her to the vet who did a CXR and said she had fluid on her lungs, and he was sure from experience that it was FIP. They had the cat put to sleep right then. :-( Teri > > My two cents... > > FIP is a horrible, progressive illness with no cure. > > Kaeli, how do cats get this? Is there anything we can do to keep them > safe from it? Yngver replied to this explaning the mutation of coronavirus and how most cats have been exposed, but a very few will develop FIP. FIP is still not understood well. For a long time, vets thought it could be passed from one cat to another and that it was its own virus, but very recent research is proving that it cannot be and isn't. A cat develops FIP on their own from coronavirus. Mutli-cat households with one FIP+ cat almost never have another cat get the disease. Recent research theorizes that cats with overactive immune systems may be more at risk. I have more notes and a few links at my site if you want more. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart/catHealth_diseases_FIP.html It IS a misdiagnosis more often than not. My own vet told me that they fall back on a diagnosis of FIP if the cat is sick and they can't find anything else wrong with it. Knowing that saved my Rowan's life. The only way to be certain is either through a biopsy, necropsy, or if the cat has effusive FIP and lives to the last stages, by the extreme abdominal distension. ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Jesus saves, Allah protects, and Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- >> I took my cat for an ultrasound this morning and unfortunately, it >> didn't come back with good results that I was SO optimistically [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace >------------------------------------------------- circa Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:19:27 -0600, in rec.pets.cats.health+behav, kaeli (infinite.possibilities@NOSPAMatt.net) said, > I'm sorry to hear about your kitty. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > cancer has not spread, I would get whatever treatment the vet suggests, > including surgery and chemo. A couple of things- first, cats tolerate chemo *very* well. The sum total of Alex's side effects were loss of whiskers and guard hairs, and early in his chemo, inappetance- which was more likely the lymphoma than the chemo. Second, lymphoma is the most responsive form of cancer to chemo, at least in cats. Even if the lymph nodes *are* affected, that is not at all an indication that there isn't hope. Alex's oncologist has a 70- 80% success rate achieving remission in cats with lymphoma. That's certainly worth evaluating rather than just letting the cat go because of lymph node infiltration. Every case is different, and different cancers have different treatments and prognoses, but the one thing I've learned is that we can't generalize about what is "worth" treating or isn't with cats who have cancer. I'm not correcting here, just clarifying- I thought chemo would be horrible and that I couldn't put my cat through it- until I did. I don't regret it one single bit. Alex had a wonderful two more years as a result, and he *truly* did not suffer from the chemo. He didn't much like going to the vets', but that's another story. ;-) Laura SignatureTime flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana. -Groucho Marx I´m so sorry for you and your kitty. I hope for the best. Lynn, Sorry about the results. I'll keep my fingers crossed... Karen > I took my cat for an ultrasound this morning and unfortunately, it > didn't come back with good results that I was SO optimistically [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > diagnosis. Any insight on this new development? I feel SO badly for > the little guy and I feel like I'm in denial...he seems fine. *sigh*
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