Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / October 2003
My cat pukes a lot
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A.J. Rivett - 20 Oct 2003 00:47 GMT My 15 year old cat, Kato, has always vomited frequently. Sometimes there is fur involved but often not. Her general health is very good. She had surgery at age 3 for a bladder stone and has been fine since but the weak stomach has been ongoing for many years.
Sometimes it seems to be unrelated to anything as she will vomit hours after having eaten anything. When she lived with other cats she would vomit after an altercation with another cat. She's alone now so that's no longer an issue. Othertimes it is semi-digested kibble, sometimes it is fur-ballish, mostly it is just milky liquid. She will stand there with her tongue protruding, heaving like the devil, and after maybe 10 seconds of heaving she'll spew out some productive puke.
This is unpleasant for both of us but I wonder if there are any dietary supplements or regimens that may help.
Any suggestions are welcome but she ain't leavin' even if she's heavin'.
Hank - 20 Oct 2003 11:43 GMT If you are feeding your cat dry food, you might do very well to do some research into the archives (groups.google.com)about the subject of dry food and a cat's natural diet - raw meat. I am in the process of transferring my cat away from dry food, hopefully towards a raw diet. I am using now a very high quality canned product with no grains and uses a large percentage of real human-grade meat. I have noticed a dramatic improvement in my cat's overall health since switching away from dry to this canned product. He has much more energy, seems happier (always was happy) and his coat has become darker and more lustrous. Most of all, his chronic diarrhea of 5 months stopped literally overnight. This, after $400 + in vet bills that did no good at all.
The common house cat is by nature a pure carnivore. While many cats may seemingly do well on dry, others do not. I encourage you to do some research in the area of diet. Proper diet can make a dramatic difference. Hank
> My 15 year old cat, Kato, has always vomited frequently. Sometimes > there is fur involved but often not. Her general health is very good. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Any suggestions are welcome but she ain't leavin' even if she's > heavin'. GAUBSTER2 - 20 Oct 2003 15:58 GMT > I am using now a very >high quality canned product with no grains and uses a large percentage of >real human-grade meat. Hank, there is no such thing as "human-grade" meat in pet foods. Which company is making you think this is what they use? Old Mother Hubbard Wellness? Someone else?
Steve G - 20 Oct 2003 21:56 GMT > > I am using now a very > >high quality canned product with no grains and uses a large percentage of > >real human-grade meat. > > Hank, there is no such thing as "human-grade" meat in pet foods. Two points:
1. You are making an argument based on labelling, not on content: That is, the food going in to a pet food factory could well be 'human grade'. However, it is *defined* as 'not human grade' by default, as soon as it enters the factory. Or, in other words, the fact that no cat food is 'human grade' does not mean that it does not contain human-grade ingredients!
2. An exception might be Active Life food: They can in a factory also used for human food[1] canning. I think they might be able to genuinely label their food as 'human grade' on the basis of this, although no doubt there's some possible semantic trickery there too.
In fact, on the Active Life web site, they have a large blurb talking about 'human grade' and all that malarkey. They say:
'By definition pet food is not human food simply because it is labeled and marketed pet food. (...) So, even if one uses only human quality ingredients' but uses them in a pet food only production facility, one is not making a human product. By regulation, the resulting product can never be labeled as acceptable for consumption by humans because it was made in a pet food only plant. (...) "Pet food made to people food standards." This means that our Active Life and Boulder Creek Farms canned pet foods could technically have been labeled and sold as human foods up to the point where they are labeled. We choose to label them and sell them as pet foods. The ingredients and the production process are that of a human plant. '
So, as you see, AL is, it would seem, truly 'human grade' throughout. I'll also note that AL is astoundingly expensive, far more so than all the other Touchy Feely foods.
Steve. [1] That's food for humans, not food made of 'em.
Karen M. - 21 Oct 2003 00:14 GMT >>>I am using now a very >>>high quality canned product with no grains and uses a large percentage of [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > Steve. > [1] That's food for humans, not food made of 'em. It's a good thing you put this disclaimer on here. I was about to accuse you of promoting cannibalism! ;)
tee hee hee
Steve G - 22 Oct 2003 17:06 GMT (...)
> It's a good thing you put this disclaimer on here. I was about to accuse > you of promoting cannibalism! ;) Cats aren't humans, so we're OK on the cannibalism front.
Anyway, my new range of cat foods are due to appear shortly. I think they will make all other foods obsolete. Initial flavours:
Piano Tuner Plumbers Arse in Gravy Fisherman with Fish Politician Brains in Aspic (very low calorie) Michael Winner Dinner
I'm also working on a special range, 'Scientists Diet', which will include such delights as 'Physicist' and 'Sociology Student'. The latter will be completely indigestible.
Steve.
PawsForThought - 22 Oct 2003 18:12 GMT >From: news@stevethepsycho.co.uk (Steve G)
>I'm also working on a special range, 'Scientists Diet', which will >include such delights as 'Physicist' and 'Sociology Student'. The >latter will be completely indigestible. LMAO! ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Karen M. - 22 Oct 2003 19:43 GMT > (...) > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Steve. LOL!! I don't want to know what the "gravy" is with the Plumber's Arse... :)
-L. - 23 Oct 2003 01:28 GMT > (...) > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Politician Brains in Aspic (very low calorie) > Michael Winner Dinner You fergot:
"Roy Tartare"
HTH, -L.
Karen M. - 23 Oct 2003 01:51 GMT >>(...) >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > HTH, > -L. Or "Salmon Rushdie" ??
Cheryl - 23 Oct 2003 01:48 GMT >>>> It's a good thing you put this disclaimer on here. I was about >>>> to accuse you of promoting cannibalism! ;) [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >>> Politician Brains in Aspic (very low calorie) >>> Michael Winner Dinner LOL Very creative. I like the snipped one, Scientist Diet and undigestable and all that. <snicker>
>> You fergot: >> >> "Roy Tartare" Good one!
>> HTH, >> -L. > > Or "Salmon Rushdie" ?? bwaaaa! You guys are killing me here!
Karen M. - 23 Oct 2003 02:07 GMT >>>>>It's a good thing you put this disclaimer on here. I was about >>>>> to accuse you of promoting cannibalism! ;) [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > bwaaaa! You guys are killing me here! I don't want to kill you, I just want to make you spit up on your monitor! ;)
Cheryl - 23 Oct 2003 02:20 GMT >>>>>> It's a good thing you put this disclaimer on here. I was about >>>>>> to accuse you of promoting cannibalism! ;) [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > I don't want to kill you, I just want to make you spit up on your > monitor! ;) You're getting REAL close.. hehe
Karen M. - 23 Oct 2003 03:57 GMT >>>>>>>It's a good thing you put this disclaimer on here. I was about >>>>>>>to accuse you of promoting cannibalism! ;) [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > You're getting REAL close.. hehe How about Dick Cheney with Halibut-on.....
GAUBSTER2 - 21 Oct 2003 21:46 GMT >> Hank, there is no such thing as "human-grade" meat in pet foods. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >grade'. However, it is *defined* as 'not human grade' by default, as >soon as it enters the factory. Right! The point is: one doesn't not know what is going into the food regardless of whether or not the label is emotional (or not).
>Or, in other words, the fact that no >cat food is 'human grade' does not mean that it does not contain >human-grade ingredients! Under that definition, Hill's uses "human grade ingredients", too.
Steve G - 22 Oct 2003 16:51 GMT > >> Hank, there is no such thing as "human-grade" meat in pet foods. > > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Right! The point is: one doesn't not know what is going into the food > regardless of whether or not the label is emotional (or not). Well, if the can says 'no byproduct meal in here', then I think we can safely assume that there's no byproduct meal in there.
> >Or, in other words, the fact that no > >cat food is 'human grade' does not mean that it does not contain > >human-grade ingredients! > > Under that definition, Hill's uses "human grade ingredients", too. All roads lead to Rome again, I see.
So - is the animal byproduct meal used by the big H permissible in human foodstuffs? It must be so, if your statement above is to be correct.
Steve.
GAUBSTER2 - 22 Oct 2003 23:15 GMT >> >1. You are making an argument based on labelling, not on content: That >> >is, the food going in to a pet food factory could well be 'human [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Well, if the can says 'no byproduct meal in here', then I think we can >safely assume that there's no byproduct meal in there. You're only focusing on one ingredient here, Steve.
>> Under that definition, Hill's uses "human grade ingredients", too. > >All roads lead to Rome again, I see. Using the definition of some regarding "human grade ingredients", Hill's does use "human grade ingredients".
>So - is the animal byproduct meal used by the big H permissible in >human foodstuffs? It must be so, if your statement above is to be >correct. Why are you focusing on only that one ingredient? There are other ingredients that Hill's uses that I suppose you could rightfully describe as "human grade". FYI, certain by-product meal is very desirable when trying to achieve a certain nutrient formulation. Using low-ash, low phosphorus, highly digestible ingredients (that are technically called "by-products") is something that should be applauded. No?
Cheryl - 22 Oct 2003 23:33 GMT >> So - is the animal byproduct meal used by the big H permissible in >> human foodstuffs? It must be so, if your statement above is to be [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > are technically called "by-products") is something that should be > applauded. No? I claim Sig Material! <snort> Gaubster2 dismisses the importance of *meat* in SD diets for *other ingredients*. lmao
-- "Why are you focusing on only that one ingredient? There are other ingredients that Hill's uses that I suppose you could rightfully describe as "human grade". " - Gauby dismisses meat in pet food as apparently unimportant. <20031022181518.15806.00001094@mb-m13.aol.com
PawsForThought - 23 Oct 2003 03:29 GMT >From: "Cheryl" jlh@NOSPAMpetitmorte.net
>GAUBSTER2 <gaubster2@aol.com> composed with style: >> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > - Gauby dismisses meat in pet food as apparently unimportant. ><20031022181518.15806.00001094@mb-m13.aol.com> LMAO!!!!!! ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
GAUBSTER2 - 23 Oct 2003 05:44 GMT >I claim Sig Material! <snort> Gaubster2 dismisses the importance of >*meat* in SD diets for *other ingredients*. lmao More spin from you, Cheryl. I'm not dismissing the importance of meat. You're completely missing the point as usual. Why must you twist things around? You should put your talents to work in politics! LOL
Cheryl - 24 Oct 2003 00:17 GMT >> I claim Sig Material! <snort> Gaubster2 dismisses the importance >> of *meat* in SD diets for *other ingredients*. lmao [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > twist things around? You should put your talents to work in > politics! LOL What was your point then?
-- "Why are you focusing on only that one ingredient? There are other ingredients that Hill's uses that I suppose you could rightfully describe as "human grade". " - Gauby dismisses meat in pet food as apparently unimportant. <20031022181518.15806.00001094@mb-m13.aol.com
Steve G - 23 Oct 2003 16:46 GMT (...)
> >Well, if the can says 'no byproduct meal in here', then I think we can > >safely assume that there's no byproduct meal in there. > > You're only focusing on one ingredient here, Steve. Well, no; earlier in this thread, you said "one doesn't not know what is going into the food regardless of whether or not the label is emotional". I'm just illustrating that your statement is wrong. I.e., if the label says that something is NOT inside, then we can safely assume that it's NOT inside.
> >> Under that definition, Hill's uses "human grade ingredients", too. > > > >All roads lead to Rome again, I see. > > Using the definition of some regarding "human grade ingredients", Hill's does > use "human grade ingredients". Brilliant! You are spinning about your axis so rapidly that you're somewhere below our feet, heading for the centre of the Earth. The power of Hills will probably save you from the vast heat and pressure though.
A translation of your statement above: 'because Hills uses animal byproduct meal, which is unsuitable for human consumption, their food cannot be accurately labelled as being made from human-grade ingredients'.
Would you disagree? Or would you care to rotate a bit more? It's a fine dance.
> >So - is the animal byproduct meal used by the big H permissible in > >human foodstuffs? It must be so, if your statement above is to be > >correct. > > Why are you focusing on only that one ingredient? Why, because you said that Hills could correctly label their food as containing 'human-grade' ingredients! I'm just illustrating that you're talking out of your hat, unless the BP meal is permissible in human foods. From your reply here, I guess BP meal is NOT permissible in such foods.
> There are other ingredients > that Hill's uses that I suppose you could rightfully describe as "human > grade". So, you are saying that some ingredients that Hills use are 'human-grade'. Quite so; I think we can all agree on that. After all, humans will happily chow down on corn, though perhaps not paper.
Steve.
GAUBSTER2 - 24 Oct 2003 17:08 GMT >> >Well, if the can says 'no byproduct meal in here', then I think we can >> >safely assume that there's no byproduct meal in there. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >if the label says that something is NOT inside, then we can safely >assume that it's NOT inside. Yes, you are only focusing on by-product meal. But you knew that, didn't you? And you're wrong on the whole, "...if it's not on the label it's not IN the food" argument. For example most foods that claim to be "all natural, etc" contain artificial preservatives but don't have to list that on their label unless they ADDED it in.
>> Using the definition of some regarding "human grade ingredients", Hill's >does [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >power of Hills will probably save you from the vast heat and pressure >though. You are side-stepping and trying to be clever here.
>A translation of your statement above: 'because Hills uses animal >byproduct meal, which is unsuitable for human consumption, their food >cannot be accurately labelled as being made from human-grade >ingredients'. No, that isn't an ACCURATE translation.
>Why, because you said that Hills could correctly label their food as >containing 'human-grade' ingredients! I'm just illustrating that >you're talking out of your hat, unless the BP meal is permissible in >human foods. Again, you're focusing on just this one ingredient contrary to what you claim. Any pet food that claim human grade ingredients is "talking out of their hat".
>> There are other ingredients >> that Hill's uses that I suppose you could rightfully describe as "human >> grade". > >So, you are saying that some ingredients that Hills use are >'human-grade'. Quite so; I think we can all agree on that. Then we agree. Hill's does use "human grade" ingredients using the definition that some attach to that "claim".
>After all, >humans will happily chow down on corn, though perhaps not paper. What are you suggesting? ;)
I've seen people "happily chow down...." on paper before, btw.
PawsForThought - 24 Oct 2003 17:36 GMT >From: gaubster2@aol.com (GAUBSTER2)
>>After all, >>humans will happily chow down on corn, though perhaps not paper. > >What are you suggesting? ;) > >I've seen people "happily chow down...." on paper before, btw. No doubt, probably in that mental institution you escaped from ;) ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
GAUBSTER2 - 24 Oct 2003 20:44 GMT >>I've seen people "happily chow down...." on paper before, btw. > >No doubt, probably in that mental institution you escaped from ;) No, in various schools of higher learning. (not to mention some on tv). But I see you can't refrain from being a jerk--even w/o provocation. That's okay. Keep it up. It reflects badly on you!
Karen M. - 24 Oct 2003 22:22 GMT >>>I've seen people "happily chow down...." on paper before, btw. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > see you can't refrain from being a jerk--even w/o provocation. That's okay. > Keep it up. It reflects badly on you! This coming from the guy who essentially called me a lonely spinster. Yeah, that's not the pot calling the kettle black. Glad Nadine knows who the "uncivil" ones are on here. <snort
GAUBSTER2 - 25 Oct 2003 00:12 GMT >This coming from the guy who essentially called me a lonely spinster. Karen, I never called you a lonely spinster.
Are you trying to back up Lauren's laughable attempts at humiliation? I would hope the discourse on this ng would be more mature or civil.
Karen M. - 25 Oct 2003 04:04 GMT I said you "essentially" called me a lonely spinster:
"You're really uncouth aren't you? Are you married? It's hard to see how anybody would be able to put up w/ you..."
>>This coming from the guy who essentially called me a lonely spinster. > > Karen, I never called you a lonely spinster. > > Are you trying to back up Lauren's laughable attempts at humiliation? I would > hope the discourse on this ng would be more mature or civil. GAUBSTER2 - 25 Oct 2003 17:06 GMT >From: "Karen M." mskitty@NOSPAMeasystreet.com >Date: 10/24/03 8:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >"You're really uncouth aren't you? Are you married? It's hard to see >how anybody would be able to put up w/ you..." You never did reply to that, so I just assumed you were ______. (fill in the blank)
That was after you were particularly nasty in your posts and replies.
Karen M. - 25 Oct 2003 21:01 GMT >>From: "Karen M." mskitty@NOSPAMeasystreet.com >>Date: 10/24/03 8:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > That was after you were particularly nasty in your posts and replies. Yes, in response to your rudeness. I'll tell you what I just told Nadine. I'm tired of the back and forth. Think what you want of me, it's kind of a done topic.
GAUBSTER2 - 25 Oct 2003 22:52 GMT >> That was after you were particularly nasty in your posts and replies. > >Yes, in response to your rudeness. Oh please. Karen, you (and Cheryl and Megan) always seem to come out swinging and looking for a fight even when there is nothing to "provoke" you. That's where you have the problem of self-control. That is something I've picked up on; merely an observation of mine. You're doing nothing to change my mind. If you're this rude and nasty anonymously, I really was wondering if anybody could put up with you in a marriage. Since you never responded one way or the other, I can only assume that you are ________. (I'll let you fill in the blank w/ "married" or "single".)
Cheryl - 26 Oct 2003 02:26 GMT > Oh please. Karen, you (and Cheryl and Megan) always seem to come > out swinging and looking for a fight even when there is nothing to > "provoke" you. You have been piling on the insults at me since you decided to "grace" this newsgroup with your presence. I for one won't sit by and take that without firing back at you. Don't like it? Kill file me. I dare you.
GAUBSTER2 - 26 Oct 2003 16:49 GMT >From: "Cheryl" jlh@NOSPAMpetitmorte.net
> Don't like it? Kill file me. I dare >you. Using my words, now??
>> Oh please. Karen, you (and Cheryl and Megan) always seem to come >> out swinging and looking for a fight even when there is nothing to >> "provoke" you. My observation is true. Deal w/ it. It's not just me, Cheryl, it's other posters, too.
>You have been piling on the insults at me since you decided to "grace" >this newsgroup with your presence. I for one won't sit by and take >that without firing back at you. Only when you "start it". Why are you portraying yourself as a victim?
Mary - 24 Oct 2003 22:34 GMT > >From: gaubster2@aol.com (GAUBSTER2) > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > No doubt, probably in that mental institution you escaped from ;) Hahaha! Good one!
> ________ > See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe > Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html > http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html > Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm Cheryl - 24 Oct 2003 23:18 GMT >> From: gaubster2@aol.com (GAUBSTER2) > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > No doubt, probably in that mental institution you escaped from ;) lmao ;)
Steve G - 27 Oct 2003 20:47 GMT (...)
> >Brilliant! You are spinning about your axis so rapidly that you're > >somewhere below our feet, heading for the centre of the Earth. The > >power of Hills will probably save you from the vast heat and pressure > >though. > > You are side-stepping and trying to be clever here. You make a good role model.
> >A translation of your statement above: 'because Hills uses animal > >byproduct meal, which is unsuitable for human consumption, their food > >cannot be accurately labelled as being made from human-grade > >ingredients'. > > No, that isn't an ACCURATE translation. Indeed? Feel free to point out any inaccuracies in my statement.
> >Why, because you said that Hills could correctly label their food as > >containing 'human-grade' ingredients! I'm just illustrating that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > claim. Any pet food that claim human grade ingredients is "talking out of > their hat". I'm 'focussing on this one ingredient' because you made an error regarding said ingredient.
As I've recently posted, at least some companies can accurately claim 'human grade' ingredients (i.e., Active Life for one).
(...)
> Then we agree. Hill's does use "human grade" ingredients using the > definition that some attach to that "claim". No; re. byproducts. This roundabout's so enjoyable, let's do another loop!
> >After all, > >humans will happily chow down on corn, though perhaps not paper. > > What are you suggesting? ;) Moi?
> I've seen people "happily chow down...." on paper before, btw. Um, er ... I once saw an elephant sing.
Steve.
Liz - 28 Oct 2003 02:21 GMT > No; re. byproducts. This roundabout's so enjoyable, let's do another > loop! > Steve. LOL. I love your sense of humor! ;)
Iain & Deb - 20 Oct 2003 13:08 GMT > My 15 year old cat, Kato, has always vomited frequently. Sometimes > there is fur involved but often not. Her general health is very good. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Any suggestions are welcome but she ain't leavin' even if she's > heavin'. My old boy used to throw up often, and kibble was the problem. Since I've switched him to canned food he's had much less trouble.
Regular use of a hairball remedy eases digestion as well.
Deb
 Signature Don't let perfection get in the way of 'pretty damn good'. - "Coach" Jack Donohue
Liz - 20 Oct 2003 14:15 GMT Have you tried changing her food?
dgk - 20 Oct 2003 14:18 GMT >My 15 year old cat, Kato, has always vomited frequently. Sometimes >there is fur involved but often not. Her general health is very good. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Any suggestions are welcome but she ain't leavin' even if she's >heavin'. My cat puked often also. Turn out he had IBD (Inflamatory Bowel Syndrome or Disease). Sort of like Crohn's disease in humans. That is serious and can lead directly to lymphoma. Suggest the possibility to your vet. Treatment is prednisone but folks also recommend getting the cat off dry food. There is group on yahoo devoted to IBD in cats. They tend towards the holistic approach including home made food. Lots of good advice there.
Barb 1 - 20 Oct 2003 17:31 GMT One of mine puked a lot but always in the wee hours of the morning. I cut back a lot on the cats' evening meal and just concentrate on breakfast and a late lunch. Now she just has an occasional hairball. She does get hairball medicine.
-- Barb I can only please one person a day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.
-L. - 20 Oct 2003 22:29 GMT > My 15 year old cat, Kato, has always vomited frequently. Sometimes > there is fur involved but often not. Her general health is very good. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Any suggestions are welcome but she ain't leavin' even if she's > heavin'. What are you feeding her? Repeated vomiting often occurs when there is a food allergy. I have one cat that vomits anything salmon. Once I quit feeding her salmon, everything resolved.
good luck, -L.
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