Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / October 2003
Swheatscoop vs WBCL or other Natural litters...
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Hank - 19 Oct 2003 15:55 GMT I've read the archives, not sure what the concensus is. My cat pees against the side of the box every time and I have to scrape the clump residue from the side (not fun).
I would like to know opinions of natural biodegradable clumping litter, with notes about how they act when stuck to sides greatly appreciated. I heard that Swheat sticks to sides like glue and is hard to remove (is this still true?) - that would be a problem for me.
I do want to switch from the clay crap I'm using now to a natural product, but don't know what to choose.
Key criteria:
Can clumps stuck to sides be removed easy enough?
Do pee clumps have small 'mini-clumps' that break off from main clump? (my clay stuff does that every time - this must stop!)
Odor control - the stuff I use now (Tidy Cats) controls odor fairly well.
Thanks!! Hank
Justin Case - 19 Oct 2003 17:27 GMT > I've read the archives, not sure what the concensus is. My cat pees against > the side of the box every time and I have to scrape the clump residue from [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Thanks!! > Hank Just about every time I clean the litter box I find clumps on the sides, however they break away cleanly if I am careful about removing the surrounding litter that supports the clump and remove it.
I use Purina Maxx Scoop Multi-Cat Formula. It is a clumping litter. I only have one cat, but use the multi-cat formula anyways... I find in my area it costs the same as the regular. It is available in an 11kg box or 7kg pail.
I fill the pan with enough litter such that it is rare if anything actually gets to the bottom... when it does the pan is usually running low on litter.
I've had good success with this litter.
 Signature "Its the bugs that keep it running." -Joe Canuck
Hank - 19 Oct 2003 18:07 GMT Thanks, Is Maxx Scoop natural and biodegradable? I forgot to put that on my list of key criteria.
> Just about every time I clean the litter box I find clumps on the sides, > however they break away cleanly if I am careful about removing the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > "Its the bugs that keep it running." > -Joe Canuck Justin Case - 19 Oct 2003 20:21 GMT > Thanks, > Is Maxx Scoop natural and biodegradable? I forgot to put that on my list of > key criteria. I doubt it meets your requirements then, below are the ingredients as per the manufacturer web site:
Ingredients
* Bentonite Clay (100%) * De-dusting agent - after clay is vacuumed and screened, a harmless, chemically-inert de-dusting agent is applied * Fragrance * Green flecks * Germ control ingredient
>>Just about every time I clean the litter box I find clumps on the sides, >>however they break away cleanly if I am careful about removing the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>"Its the bugs that keep it running." >> -Joe Canuck
 Signature "Its the bugs that keep it running." -Joe Canuck
Brandy?Alexandre - 19 Oct 2003 20:21 GMT Justin Case <Justin_Case@Canada.ca> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
> Just about every time I clean the litter box I find clumps on the > sides, however they break away cleanly if I am careful about > removing the surrounding litter that supports the clump and remove > it. Not true for Swheat Scoop. I've had it with the stuff. The last bag actually came with a insert with the litter saying you have to have it at least three inches deep and spray the box with cooking spray. I *have* kept it that deep, but the cat bulldozes is to one end, and it does *not* unstick from the sides. Your tactic works with other litters, but not this one. Maintaining a clean and sanitary privvy for the cat is hard enough work, having to do all this other stuck just to be able to use a particular litter is ridiculous.
 Signature Brandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you?
Justin Case - 19 Oct 2003 22:10 GMT Skank!
Brandy?Alexandre - 20 Oct 2003 01:14 GMT Justin Case <Justin_Case@Canada.ca> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
> Skank! Look who's trying to start a flame war. Take note, people. It's rarely me.
 Signature Brandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you?
Justin Case - 20 Oct 2003 01:24 GMT Brandy Alexandre wrote:
> Justin Case <Justin_Case@Canada.ca> wrote in > rec.pets.cats.health+behav: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Look who's trying to start a flame war. Take note, people. It's > rarely me. No flame war dharling. :-)
Just callin' them like I see them.
Kindest regards.
Rona Yuthasastrakosol - 19 Oct 2003 19:15 GMT > I've read the archives, not sure what the concensus is. My cat pees against > the side of the box every time and I have to scrape the clump residue from > the side (not fun). <snip> I don't have any experience with natural biodegradable litters, but I do have some experience with clumps stuck to the sides of littler boxes. Until you find a litter that meets your needs, you could try switching to a larger box (if you aren't already using one) so your cat has more room in it. I had two boxes--one standard sized one (the type most people buy when they first get their cat) and one of those covered ones. My cat not only peed against the side of the first box, she also tended to pee over the side so I got the covered one but used it without the lid. Then she no longer peed over the side, but still peed against the side. I finally got a big Rubbermaid-type box that was about 2 or 2.5 feet long and 1.5 feet wide, but only maybe 4" deep. It's perfect for her and I don't have to deal with clumps stuck to the side of the box.
rona
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Cheryl - 20 Oct 2003 01:55 GMT I finally got a
> big Rubbermaid-type box that was about 2 or 2.5 feet long and 1.5 > feet wide, but only maybe 4" deep. It's perfect for her and I > don't have to deal with clumps stuck to the side of the box. With one cat who tends to lift his butt and sort of shoot his pee, and another with sometimes projectile diarrhea, I've had to put the litterbox inside of the bottom of a large dog carrier. I have to find something similar but cheaper for the lil girl who poos over the side of her box onto the floor. But I still find that the clumping litter works best for what ends up on the sides when I scoop it down into the litter to cover it and then scoop it out.
-L. - 20 Oct 2003 22:53 GMT > I finally got a > > big Rubbermaid-type box that was about 2 or 2.5 feet long and 1.5 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > works best for what ends up on the sides when I scoop it down into the > litter to cover it and then scoop it out. My Mimi sticks her pootsie over the edge to pee sometimes, too. I eneded up with the XL "jumbo" size box (it's huge), with just an inch or two of litter (Precious cat scoopable) in it, and this seems to solve the problem. If there's too much litter, she pees out. Peewee stands on the corner of the box with all four paws, to poop. The box has to be substantial enough to support his weight. It took a long time to find a system that worked.
Oh, the things we do for our cats!
-L.
PawsForThought - 19 Oct 2003 20:23 GMT >From: "Hank" sorry@nogood.com
>I do want to switch from the clay crap I'm using now to a natural product, >but don't know what to choose. I use Swheat Scoop. I use those big black garbage bags and stick the box inside the bag, then pour the litter inside. The garbage bag acts as a litterbox liner. Then when you empty the box, just turn the bag inside out so the litter is now inside. Also, you can spray the inside of the box with non-stick cooking spray to keep it from sticking. I find that using about 3 inches of litter keeps it from sticking too.
Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Betsy - 19 Oct 2003 20:59 GMT The Swheat scoop clumps very well. It clumps better than clay litter, in my experience. I have 11 cats using 1 litter box, which is a rubbermaid tub about 3 feet long and 2 feet high. I keep 6 or more inches in the box.
Yes, the cats spray the sides and yes the swheat scoop sticks. BUT--it does scrape off easily. It does not break into little globules. And most of all it just doesn't smell when wet. An added benefit is that swheat scoop is lighter so it is easier for me to dig through to remove the clumps.
It is totally biodegradable. However, how do you intend to recycle it? Most municipalities burn or bury their garbage. If you throw it out, it will probably be in a plastic bag, and that won't degrade. I would NOT recommend flushing it. I've tried and fortunately lived to tell the tale, but it can be an expensive plumbing issue, despite claims on the box.
I'm extremely environment oriented, and I like the fact that this litter is made from what would otherwise be a waste product.
I clean the box once a day. I NEVER fully empty or scrub the box. Why should I? The whole idea of clumping litter is that one shouldn't have to do this. With the old kind of litter (non-clumping), I had to dump and scrub the stinky box at least every day. My cats are extremely healthy. When you think about what cats get into and how they clean themselves, why on earth would you worry about disinfecting a litter box! In fact, there is much evidence to support the theory that modern day "cleanliness" is responsible for most of our auto-immune diseases.
> I've read the archives, not sure what the concensus is. My cat pees against > the side of the box every time and I have to scrape the clump residue from [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Thanks!! > Hank Hank - 19 Oct 2003 22:52 GMT Some good points raised here.
I can live with scraping of the edge if it comes off in one piece and doesn't take a jack hammer. A poster also had a good suggestion to use a wider box.
I am environmentally conscious, but am guilty of using plastic bags and throwing out the poop. I like the idea of flushing, however, that uses water and risks clogging. So if I don't flush or use plastic bags, are there any other alternatives?
[Snip]
>An added benefit is that swheat scoop is > lighter so it is easier for me to dig through to remove the clumps. This will make a difference.
[Snip]
> It does not break into little globules. This has been a major issue with Tidy Cats. I've been using inferior litter for too long.
You scoop every day. Do pee clumps start to smell after one day with Swheat?
Hank
----- Original Message ----- From: "Betsy" <n0spam@spam.c-0> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 2:59 PM Subject: Re: Swheatscoop vs WBCL or other Natural litters...
> The Swheat scoop clumps very well. It clumps better than clay litter, in my > experience. I have 11 cats using 1 litter box, which is a rubbermaid tub [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > Thanks!! > > Hank Betsy - 20 Oct 2003 02:58 GMT No, there is no ammonia odor at all, ever! It's wonderful.
I bought a worm composter from Australia that is supposed to compost cat poop. The worms all died. I replaced them, but they died. Actually they seemed to migrate to my compost heap next to the poop composter!
I'm not ready to give up on the idea yet. I think I just had it too wet. Once they get going I will use the compost on flower beds (not vegetable gardens).
> Some good points raised here. > [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > > > Thanks!! > > > Hank Hank - 20 Oct 2003 06:06 GMT Going off topic here (shall a new thread be created on this?) Worm composter sounds interesting. Are the worms imported? If so, there is potential danger from foreign species problems. Foreign worms introduced as discarded unwanted fishing bait is destroying old growth forest in the North Midwest. Hank
> No, there is no ammonia odor at all, ever! It's wonderful. > [quoted text clipped - 111 lines] > > > > Thanks!! > > > > Hank Betsy - 20 Oct 2003 17:05 GMT The worms are bait worms--I'll look up the name but they are red worms.
> Going off topic here (shall a new thread be created on this?) Worm composter > sounds interesting. Are the worms imported? If so, there is potential danger [quoted text clipped - 132 lines] > > > > > Thanks!! > > > > > Hank Iain & Deb - 21 Oct 2003 12:21 GMT > The worms are bait worms--I'll look up the name but they are red worms. You mean red wigglers? - the cadillac of worms? :)
Deb
Betsy - 21 Oct 2003 16:05 GMT Yes, I think so!
> > The worms are bait worms--I'll look up the name but they are red worms. > > You mean red wigglers? - the cadillac of worms? :) > > Deb PawsForThought - 19 Oct 2003 23:03 GMT >From: "Betsy" n0spam@spam.c-0
> In fact, there is >much evidence to support the theory that modern day "cleanliness" is >responsible for most of our auto-immune diseases. Especially those "antibacterial" soaps.
Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
Steve G - 20 Oct 2003 16:45 GMT > The Swheat scoop clumps very well. It clumps better than clay litter, in my > experience. I agree with this, but...
> Yes, the cats spray the sides and yes the swheat scoop sticks. BUT--it does > scrape off easily. It does not break into little globules. And most of all > it just doesn't smell when wet. ...not with this.
Removing stuck-on gunk is easy - as long as you are happy to use half a pint of nitric acid, a bench grinder, and some light explosives. Spraying the box with cooking oil does alleviate this to some extent, but it ain't 100% effective. I think what's really needed is either a teflon-coated box, or maybe one made of glass.
I found some tendency to get small globules appearing, although this was after several weeks, and was not a major fault.
I also found that it did smell somewhat when wet. At first, this was a kind of healthy wheaty smell (oddly enough). Alas, as time progressed, the healthy wheaty smell developed an overtone of rotting pissy wheat (oddly enough). I perhaps overstate here, but it wasn't exactly summer meadow freshness anyway.
> will probably be in a plastic bag, and that won't degrade. I would NOT > recommend flushing it. I've tried and fortunately lived to tell the tale, > but it can be an expensive plumbing issue, despite claims on the box. I did flush it, but let it soak in the pan for a while first.
(...)
> When you think about what cats get into and how they clean themselves, why > on earth would you worry about disinfecting a litter box! More for the human peace of mind, I suspect.
Other biodegradable litters that have undergone arse testing:
WBCL: IME, this is basically like a better version of SwS. It does not stick to the box much (if at all), and clumps at least as well. Odour control seems better to me, too. Further, it breaks apart more readily in water, so I guess it's less likely to clog the plumbing. Bloody expensive, mind.
Odour Lockers: Claims to be biodegradable, although it actually does contain some clay. In fact, the litter is little wood particles with a crunchy clay coating. A bit like M&Ms, but smaller and doesn't taste so good.
Anyhow, OL has the best odour control of anything I've encountered thus far. However, its clumping is utter toss; you'll be sifting thru' the sand as if your're panning for gold. Or panning for sh.t, indeed. Another disadvantage is that I'm a bit jumpy about the clay coating of the litter particles. I have a nasty feeling that somewhere in the nether reaches, there's a planet-sized ball of clay slowly building.
At the moment I'm mostly mixing WBCL and OL, but may well drop the OL on account of the clay issue. I would also like to find some amazing no-tracking stuff. All of the above track fairly badly. Possibly OL is the least trackworthy, but all of 'em lead to that seaside feel under yer feet.
Long message about evacuation, eh?
Steve.
Betsy - 20 Oct 2003 17:07 GMT Do you scoop daily? There's no reason for odor at all if you do so. I agree, when left in the box for awhile it will smell.
The Rubbermaid container I use is very easy to scrape.
> > The Swheat scoop clumps very well. It clumps better than clay litter, in my > > experience. [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > > Steve. Steve G - 20 Oct 2003 23:05 GMT > Do you scoop daily? There's no reason for odor at all if you do so. I > agree, when left in the box for awhile it will smell. More than daily. Less frequently would be unacceptable for all concerned!
The reason for odour is that i) unpleasantness sticks to the box, and begins to smell. This can't be easily removed without emptying the litter and scrubbing the box, ii) the clumping is good, but not perfect. So, small pieces of soiled litter will necessarily remain in the box and these will provide a nasal ... stimulus ... in time.
I've found WBCL to be somewhat better in both respects, and Odor Lockers to be better at hiding the smell (albeit worse at leaving soiled breakage bits behind).
Steve.
Iain & Deb - 20 Oct 2003 13:02 GMT > I've read the archives, not sure what the concensus is. My cat pees against > the side of the box every time and I have to scrape the clump residue from [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Can clumps stuck to sides be removed easy enough? I find that if I prepare the boxes as recommended - 3 inches deep and use cooking oil spray on the box interior before adding the litter - that the Swheat works pretty well. Daily scooping is required. If I'm away for the weekend, clumps on the sides of the box do tend to stick pretty hard.
> Do pee clumps have small 'mini-clumps' that break off from main clump? (my > clay stuff does that every time - this must stop!) This happens sometimes, but I think it's when the Swheat starts getting old - it's my signal that it's time to change the box.
> Odor control - the stuff I use now (Tidy Cats) controls odor fairly well. Odor control is good with this stuff. In a very warm room, it will smell a bit wheaty, but that's all.
> Thanks!! > Hank I read a bit further in the thread, and environmentally this is a good product. It degrades well because it's a plant product, and is flushable so it can go through the water treatment system in our town. Some may feel this is wasteful, but where I live they actually recommend that you pick up your dog's droppings and put them down the toilet, so this makes sense to me. Although I originally purchased Swheat because I wanted a scooping litter I'd be sure was safe with kittens, I like the fact that I can flush it instead of carting it out to the curb.
Deb
 Signature Don't let perfection get in the way of 'pretty damn good'. - "Coach" Jack Donohue
-L. - 20 Oct 2003 22:55 GMT > I've read the archives, not sure what the concensus is. My cat pees against > the side of the box every time and I have to scrape the clump residue from > the side (not fun). the liter I use that works the best in these circumstances is Precious Cat scoopable. It's regular clay litter, but IMO, hold up better than anything else. And my Peewee is a side-squirter as well.
-L.
Judith Trummer - 28 Oct 2003 21:20 GMT Swheat scoop has been wonderful for me -- it's the ONLY litter where I've ever been able to peel clumps off the sides or bottom of the pan intact. Beats the hell out of Tidy Cat.
The problem, for me, is that it's very dusty and coats my glasses every time I clean the box.
PawsForThought - 29 Oct 2003 01:15 GMT >From: Judith Trummer kite@shell.core.com
>Swheat scoop has been wonderful for me -- it's the ONLY litter where >I've ever been able to peel clumps off the sides or bottom of the pan >intact. Beats the hell out of Tidy Cat. > >The problem, for me, is that it's very dusty and coats my glasses every >time I clean the box. I was told by the manufacturer that you can add a very small amount of vegetable oil, I believe she said 1/8 teaspoon and stir it well into the litter. I've never done it so don't know if it works or not. I haven't had a real problem with it being dusty except when I change the boxes.
Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm
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