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diabetes

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Gill Rattenbury - 13 Oct 2003 19:21 GMT
we have just been told
that our 9year old tasha might have diabetes.  I took a urine sample into
the vets today and he said there is a 98% chance that diabetes is what it
is.  tasha has been on r/d for a couple of years now and I thought i would
try her on Iams senior.  This was about a week ago and since then she has
been drinking a vast amount and peeing by the bucket load.  The vet said it
could be an infection so he gave her an injection and we have to monitor her
pees for a couple of days.  We have put her back on the r/d on the vets
advice.  Would an infection give a reading of sugar in her pee ?  Would
appreciate a reply a.s.a.p
Kind regards Gill
----- Original Message -----
William Hamblen - 14 Oct 2003 00:53 GMT
>Would an infection give a reading of sugar in her pee ?

Infections can cause a rise in blood sugar in human beings and very
likely can in cats.  We're both mammals after all.  High volume of
urine plus glucose in the urine very probably means diabetes, though.
The symptoms can come on suddenly.  You have to think hard about
treating the cat.  The cat will not appreciate the fact that those
daily injections of insulin are keeping it alive and well.
Nancy Thuleen - 14 Oct 2003 03:47 GMT
> You have to think hard about
> treating the cat.  The cat will not appreciate the fact that those
> daily injections of insulin are keeping it alive and well.

Excuse me?  Most cats take insulin injections very well -- the needle
is tiny, the shot takes all of a microsecond, and, believe it or not, I
think they do indeed appreciate that they feel better when they get
their shots.  My diabetic cat Kelson, I swear, PURRS when he sees me
getting the insulin ready for him, and will often meow and rub at me to
remind me that it's time for his shot if I'm close to forgetting.

The hardest part in treating a diabetic cat is figuring out how much
insulin to give.  Once you've got the schedule and dosage down, it's
really a piece of cake, and I speak from experience.  If Kelson could
talk, I know he'd tell you he's far, far happier getting shots twice a
day than the alternative.  To the original poster, please do get your
kitty on insulin if he is indeed diabetic, as he'll feel worlds better
and so will you.

- Nancy.
Sarah - 14 Oct 2003 04:41 GMT
> > You have to think hard about
> > treating the cat.  The cat will not appreciate the fact that those
> > daily injections of insulin are keeping it alive and well.

Bullshit.  I had a diabetic cat for two years and she was an angel as far
the shots went.

Sounds like you don't have any experience caring for diabetic cats, in which
case try not to make irresponsible bogus statements that may cause a person
to put their cat down rather than giving insulin shots.
Philip ? - 14 Oct 2003 05:43 GMT
In
news:NfKib.327646$Lnr1.200145@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com,
Sarah <DELscrubbrushDEL@DELrogers.DELcom> being of bellicose mind
posted:

> > > You have to think hard about
> > > treating the cat.  The cat will not appreciate the fact that
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Bullshit.  I had a diabetic cat for two years and she was an angel
> as far the shots went.

With such "elegant" language and demeanor as yours, the cat did not
dare protest.
--

  ~~Philip                 "Never let school interfere
                                 with your education - Mark Twain"

> Sounds like you don't have any experience caring for diabetic
> cats, in which case try not to make irresponsible bogus statements
> that may cause a person to put their cat down rather than giving
> insulin shots.
Sarah - 15 Oct 2003 01:32 GMT
> > Bullshit.  I had a diabetic cat for two years and she was an angel
> > as far the shots went.
>
> With such "elegant" language and demeanor as yours, the cat did not
> dare protest.

LOL... I was really gentle with her, I swear.  It's people who give false
advice that could result in a cat being put down that brings out the inner
lion in me!    :-)
Liz - 14 Oct 2003 14:41 GMT
Nancy, what do you feed him?
Nancy Thuleen - 14 Oct 2003 15:14 GMT
> Nancy, what do you feed him?

No offense, but I really don't want to get jumped all over by people on
either side of this food debate.  I will say that, in consultation with
my vet, I've tried Purina DM and the new Hill's MD, both wet and dry.
I've tried Hill's r/d and w/d, both wet and dry.  I've tried a
high-protein diet of commercial canned food.  What I've found best is a
mix of several different things, but it averages out to a little under
10% total carbohydrates.  The key is timing: Kelson gets the
high-protein food almost whenever he wants, since it causes very little
glucose spiking.  The carbs, though, he only gets shortly before
injection, because those cause a large postprandial spike which the
insulin can't counteract at other times.  I have run daily curves on
Kelson (with a home tester) for weeks on end, and this really is the
best diet he'll tolerate.

I do wish you all would stop being so inflammatory about the food
issue, but trust me, I've found what works for Kelson.  However, I
would never assume that it would work for any other cat.  It took a lot
of trial and error to get where we are.

- Nancy.
Phil P. - 14 Oct 2003 16:43 GMT
> > Nancy, what do you feed him?
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> - Nancy.

Nancy,

Don't ever be afraid to follow your own beliefs!  You're doing *exactly*
what you should be doing!  Feeding the diet *you* feel is the best diet for
*your* cat under *your* circumstances and not allowing yourself to be
scared, or made to feel guilty because you don't conform to some cult-like
fanaticism..

I hope everyone follows your example!

I wish you continued good luck.

Phil
Liz - 14 Oct 2003 18:33 GMT
> > Nancy, what do you feed him?
>
> No offense, but I really don't want to get jumped all over by people on
> either side of this food debate.  

No offense taken! :) I was just wondering if the need for insulin was
related to eating carbs as I understand it would be.

> I will say that, in consultation with
> my vet, I've tried Purina DM and the new Hill's MD, both wet and dry.
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> - Nancy.
Karen M. - 14 Oct 2003 20:58 GMT
>>Nancy, what do you feed him?
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> - Nancy.

Nancy,

I thinkwhy some people are asking is to see if you've tried the
higher-protein regimen, and some people are just curious what you've
tried so they can kind of make a mental note for future reference. None
of us know if or when one of our cats will develop the same problem, and
food is always such a big part of combatting an illness. I for one, will
be making a mental note of your protein and carb routine for *my* future
reference, just in case!! :) I'm glad you're finding something that
works for your cats. Good luck! :)

Karen
Phil P. - 14 Oct 2003 12:15 GMT
The cat will not appreciate the fact that those
> daily injections of insulin are keeping it alive and well.

That's not entirely true.  If done correctly with as little fus and
restraint as possible, most cats, at least the several dozen diabetic cats
we've managed, don't mind the insulin injections or the ear prick for blood
glucose monitoring at all.

The key is not to stress out the cat by making a big deal about it or
chasing her and using excessive restraint..

Phil.
Gill Rattenbury - 14 Oct 2003 07:52 GMT
Thanks for your replies.  Tasha was given an antibiotic injection last night
and this morning at 5am was running around like a 2 year old.  She only had
one little pee last night in her tray so I am hoping this really is an
infection/

Best wishes Gill
> we have just been told
> that our 9year old tasha might have diabetes.  I took a urine sample into
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Kind regards Gill
> ----- Original Message -----
Phil P. - 14 Oct 2003 12:12 GMT
> Thanks for your replies.  Tasha was given an antibiotic injection last night
> and this morning at 5am was running around like a 2 year old.  She only had
> one little pee last night in her tray so I am hoping this really is an
> infection/

Gill,

Its usually the other way around in cats - Glucosuria predisposes cats to
infections -especially urinary tract infections because sugar in the urine
is an excellent breeding ground for bacteria.  Its quite possible that a UTI
exacerbated underlying diabetes and the antibiotic simply treated the
symptoms.  Cats have a high renal threshold for glucose (220-310 mg/dl) so
it seems unlikely that an infection would be the primary cause of
glucosuria.

If I were you, I'd err on the side of caution and ask your vet to run a
complete blood test to determine her actual blood glucose concentration and
any other possible abnormalities including renal dysfunction and infection.
A serum fructosamine or glycosylated hemoglobin test measure the average
level of glucose control over the past few weeks.   Either of these would
tell you if your cat does in fact have diabetes as opposed to transient or
physiological hyperglycemia.

Urine glucose testing in cats is very unreliable and has some serious
limitations partly because of the cat's high renal threshold.  Also, the
urine glucose reading does not reflect the *actual* blood or urine glucose
concentration at the time the urine is tested since urine in the bladder, at
any given time, is an accumulation of several hours of urine formation.
Actual blood glucose could be higher or lower than reflected by the urine
test strips.

If I were you, I'd err on the side of caution and ask your vet  to run a
complete blood test including serum fructosamine or glycosylated hemoglobin.

Best of luck.

Phil.
Gill Rattenbury - 14 Oct 2003 18:34 GMT
How much would a cat with diabetes drink.  I am getting a little paranoid.
i have measured her intake today and she has drunk about 5 to 6 fluid ounces
and had two pees neither were much volume, nothing like the last two weeks.
?
> we have just been told
> that our 9year old tasha might have diabetes.  I took a urine sample into
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Kind regards Gill
> ----- Original Message -----
 
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