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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / October 2003Diabetic Cat
Our cat Sam (large, neutered male, about 7 years of age) has recently been diagnosed with diabetes. However, we're having trouble getting him stabilised. Already he's on 12 units of PZI a day, which apparently is extremely high. Does anbody else have a cat on such a high dose? Is it that unusual? Regards Stephen Ward In news:8Ywgb.19556$4D.9886881@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net, Stephen Ward <stephen.ward@virgin.net> being of bellicose mind posted: > Our cat Sam (large, neutered male, about 7 years of age) has > recently been diagnosed with diabetes. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Regards > Stephen Ward How does a cat end up being diabetic? Please describe the old diet vs. the new (assuming) diabetic diet. Thank you. -- ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain" > Our cat Sam (large, neutered male, about 7 years of age) has recently been > diagnosed with diabetes. > > However, we're having trouble getting him stabilised. Already he's on 12 > units of PZI a day, which apparently is extremely high. That does seem rather high to me, but not unheard of. (Disclaimer: I'm not a vet at all, but since I have a diabetic cat who has also proved very difficult to regulate, I've read a lot about it and learned even more by experience). How much does Sam weigh? And what's his diet like? Kelson, my 25+ lb Maine Coon, gets 8.5 units of PZI TWICE a day, which is just about right, although he still goes through periods of instability and I'd call him only 'lightly' regulated, but it's the best we can do after two years of trying different diets and insulin types. And he's actually doing better than I make that sound: all his blood tests have come back normal, and there doesn't seem to be any damage to his internal systems, and he's drinking and urinating the normal amount these days. Are you giving the shots twice a day, or once a day? Kelson seems to metabolize (or whatever) the insulin very quickly, so we've found he needs the twice a day shots. When we tried the L (Lente) insulin, which is shorter-acting, he even needed shots three times a day, but apparently that is very unusual. With Sam, I can't help but wonder if you're seeing rebound (Somoygi, sp?) with a 12-unit dose. Have you done a 12 or 24 hour curve where you've tested him every 3 hours? I've found that Kelson can drop up to 100 points (mg/dl) per hour, so in three hours he could, conceivably drop from 300 to a dangerous level and start to rebound. (And I have, on occasion, seen him rise 100 points in only half an hour.) Do you have a home tester for blood glucose? If not, I wholeheartedly recommend getting one, they're only about $40 and they've proved invaluable to regulating Kelson. I'd be happy to talk more via email, but I'd also recommend that you check out the two webpages where you can join forums and read up on diabetes in animals: http://www.felinediabetes.com http://www.petdiabetes.com Both have lots of information and ways to talk to other owners of diabetic cats and dogs. Good luck! - Nancy. > Our cat Sam (large, neutered male, about 7 years of age) has recently been > diagnosed with diabetes. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Regards > Stephen Ward Try giving him a zero carb diet. There are many brands of canned cat food with zero carbs or a homemade diets consisting of only varied meats. BTW, cats with type II diabetes (more common) do not respond to insulin. Diet is the only way to go. > > Our cat Sam (large, neutered male, about 7 years of age) has recently been > > diagnosed with diabetes. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Try giving him a zero carb diet. Still trying to kill cats with your asinine and dangerous advice? The cat's diet should *not* be changed without consulting a vet - A reduction in calories or carbohydrates without a dosage adjustment can result in an insulin *overdose*. Why don't you get the hell out of here because your asinine and dangerous advice kill someone's cat - if it hasn't already! > > "Stephen Ward" <stephen.ward@virgin.net> wrote in message > news:<8Ywgb.19556$4D.9886881@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>... [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Why don't you get the hell out of here because your asinine and > dangerous advice kill someone's cat - if it hasn't already! I know personally a Type II diabetic. It took months to get his carb/sugar intake fixed and a proper insulin injection regimen dialed in right. I agree that if you sharply reduce sugars without a proper corresponding insulin reduction ... you can go into a coma and possibly die. -- ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain" > > > "Stephen Ward" <stephen.ward@virgin.net> wrote in message > > news:<8Ywgb.19556$4D.9886881@newsfep2-win.server.ntli.net>... [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > corresponding insulin reduction ... you can go into a coma and > possibly die. An overdose of insulin can cause what's known as the Somogyi Phenomenon or Rebound Hyperglycemia. When the cat's blood glucose drops rapidly or falls below 65 mg/dL several physiologic mechanisms kick in which stimulate glucose production by the liver - then the blood glucose level rises rapidly. Other hormones (cortisol and growth hormone) are released, which *further* increase the production of and release of glucose - - the blood glucose level increases even more rapidly to as high as 600 mg/dL or higher. Unfortunately, many people increase the insulin dosage in these hyperglycemic crisis's which it the *worst* thing to do and only aggravates the problem.! The correct response to rebound hyperglycemia is the reduction of the dosage of insulin. Most cats require a reduction by ~50% to 75% of the original dosage. The Somogyi Phenomenon is truly a nightmare! Phil. > I know personally a Type II diabetic. It took months to get his > carb/sugar intake fixed and a proper insulin injection regimen dialed > in right. I agree that if you sharply reduce sugars without a proper > corresponding insulin reduction ... you can go into a coma and > possibly die. True type II diabetes does not respond to insulin unless there´s glucose toxicity. Insulin tells a cell to take up glucose from blood by clinging to a protein on the surface of the cell. In type II diabetes, this clinging does not occur so you can shoot a gallon of insulin in a type II diabetic and get no response. But obviously Phil does not know this. That´s what happens when one just copies away without any background. In people, around 90% of diabetics are type II, or non-insulin dependent, also called senile diabetes. This cat could be type I and is not responding to this specific insulin. Insulin from different species have slightly different shapes so some are effective to some individuals and some are not (the clinging must occur for the cell to respond to insulin). For the clinging to occur, the key must fit the lock perfectly. http://www.vetstop.com.au/Info/DMFeline.htm But obviously Phil > does not know this. That?s what happens when one just copies away > without any background. Really? You're not only a nut cat (the opinion of 4 out of 4 vets who read your asinine theories) and dangerous to cats, you're a complete and total mindless fool! ROTFL! Almost every one in this group *knows* I've been managing diabetic cats for more than *10 years*! I've helped several people regulate their cats! ROTFLMAO! Its really *you* who has absolutely *no* background or experience treating or managing diabetic cats... or any cat for that matter! I just love it when you shoot yourself in the foot trying to shoot me! ROTFLMAO! >True type II diabetes does not respond to insulin unless there´s >glucose toxicity. Insulin tells a cell to take up glucose from blood [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >without any background. In people, around 90% of diabetics are type >II, or non-insulin dependent, also called senile diabetes. Hmmm. Why are all my Type 2 friends using insulin to control it then? You might be interested to know that there are over a dozen different causes of diabetes, roughly categorized as Type 1 and Type 2. (In other words, there exist numerous causes of Type 2.) All, both Type 1 and Type 2, respond to increased insulin. In this respect there is no difference between humans and cats. Injected insulin has the same effect on the cell wall stoma as endogenous insulin; the more insulin in the blood stream, the more the stoma open up. Oh, and there is no such thing as "true" Type 2 diabetes. In fact, there are no two patients who present exactly the same causes. Determining the proper therapy is always a trial and error process. But insulin is still the drug of choice for all kinds of diabetes because it is the most benign and is easiest to control. -- Bogus e-mail address, but I read this newsgroup regularly, so reply here. > Hmmm. Why are all my Type 2 friends using insulin to control it then? That is a question I ask myself. I have read texts that say exactly what you are saying of all the different pictures in type II, some that respond, some that do not, some that do not respond in the beginning and respond some time later, etc. And in this cauldron you will find a lot of people (and cats) who do not respond to any kind of insulin whatsoever. They have plenty of insulin in their blood and they are diabetic. IMO these two categories of diabetes were established long before we knew any better. Type one, considered insulin-dependent, also called juvenile diabetes, and type two, considered non-insulin-dependent, also called senile diabetes. If a person develops diabetes late in life and responds to insulin, should we call it type I or II? By convention we call it type II but why do we do that if the person responds to insulin? I think it´s about time they review these names and start throwing more categories in there. > All, both Type 1 > and Type 2, respond to increased insulin. You will find many pages on the net stating that this is not true. I strongly suggest you go to this page and read the articles linked there: http://www.bugsbest.com/insresis.htm And don´t miss this one: High Insulin Levels Tied to Heart Disease I understand the original poster said his cat was on 12 units of insulin and ****not responding.**** >IMO these two categories of diabetes were established long before we >knew any better. Type one, considered insulin-dependent, also called [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >responds to insulin? I think it´s about time they review these names >and start throwing more categories in there. I think you have a misunderstanding of the definitions of Type 1 and Type 2. Whether the individual is dependent on insulin or not is irrelevant. Type 1 means the body's production of insulin is impaired. Type 2 means the body is producing plenty of insulin, but it's not working as well as it should. This is usually caused by resistance, but is also caused by overweight, among other issues. In all cases, however, adding exogenous insulin reduces blood sugar levels. If the patient is resistant (a typical Type 2), then it may take very large amounts. But the increased insulin will lower blood sugar; it's just a question of how much. I might add that there is also a Type 1.5 (I'm not making that up, you can find the term used in medical journals). A Type 1.5 is someone who has impaired production (Type 1), and the insulin is also not working properly (Type 2). I became diabetic at age 9 when I lost about 2/3 my native production. An adult Type 1 who has lost all production will use about 30-40 units a day. I used about 20 units a day until my mid-40s. Then I noted my BG was increasing in spite of the insulin. Today I use about 80 units a day. The increased requirement is simply because I am also becoming resistant. Luckily there is no shortage of insulin. I know some Type 2s who are using over 200 units a day, yet other Type 2s of the same age and body weight need only a fraction of that amount. >> All, both Type 1 >> and Type 2, respond to increased insulin. > >You will find many pages on the net stating that this is not true. I >strongly suggest you go to this page and read the articles linked >there: You can find a lot of things on the net that are not true. I trust what I read in medical journals. I do realize that some Type 2s are so resistant that it may appear that the insulin is not working. They are wrong -- it is working; it's just that they haven't got the dosage high enough yet. And there are even a few who are so resistant that it might take scary amounts to bring them under control. There are also a lot of Type 2s who respond better to some of the new -glitazones. The first of these came out about ten years ago (troglitazone). Unfortunately, it caused a couple deaths and was pulled from the market. It seems it was harder on the liver than they originally thought. We now have pioglitazone and rosiglitazone, which seem to have no such problems. They work by increasing the sensitivity of the cells to the insulin, effectively reducing the resistance. For a resistant Type 2, this is an ideal therapy. Unfortunately, there are various causes of the resistance, and many patients do not respond to either drug. (Neither has any effect on the resistance portion of my condition.) I don't know if anyone has tried either of them on cats or other animals, but I'd assume they'd probably work. Diabetes in most animals is practically the same as it is in humans -- same causes. >And don´t miss this one: High Insulin Levels Tied to Heart Disease Hyperinsulinemia is connected with increased risk of heart disease, but it is slight. Hyperglycemia also leads to heart disease, plus many other problems, and it is a far worse cause of heart disease than hyperinsulinemia. I said insulin is the most benign; I did not mean to imply that it is harmless. Sometimes you have to choose the least toxic poison. >I understand the original poster said his cat was on 12 units of >insulin and ****not responding.**** Then the cat needs more insulin. There are a couple other possibilities. For example, insulin loses its potency over time. Excessive heat makes it deteriorate faster. At room temperature it loses only 1-2% per month, but if it goes over 35C it may lose half its potency in a matter of hours. The hotter it gets the faster the degradation. What if the OP was using some bad insulin? Insulin also takes a while to act. It is designed to be absorbed slowly. What if the original poster injected the cat and then tested five minutes later? There are other possible explanations as well. I'm not saying any of the above are what actually happened. I'm just saying that increased insulin ALWAYS lowers blood sugar. How much varies a lot, so it may appear at first that it is not working. -- Bogus e-mail address, but I read this newsgroup regularly, so reply here. Thank you for the input. I believe all the articles linked in that page have been published in medical journals since they are all based on studies. Do you control what you eat? To what extent do carbs affect your blood glucose? If you ate less carbs, would you need less insulin? >Do you control what you eat? To what extent do carbs affect your blood >glucose? If you ate less carbs, would you need less insulin? If I change what I eat it will require that I change the type and timing of the insulin, but cutting down on carbs has only a slight effect on the total amount needed. When I was a kid all we had was that awful old Toronto insulin, and huge toadstabber needles to inject it with. You had to eat to match the insulin because there was only one kind of insulin. Today we have insulin with all kinds of different activity curves. This gives us the ability to match the insulin to the food, making life a lot easier. Last Sunday I went to a potluck where the dessert table was overflowing. Many of my friends were amazed as I loaded up on pie and cake. What they didn't know was that I had injected a large amount of a very fast-acting insulin to cover the carbs. My BG never went much above normal. I realize that the majority of the populace thinks that diabetics cannot eat sugar. That is old hat. With modern insulin a diabetic can eat anything that a non-diabetic can eat. I should also steer you to the glycemic index. It is list of common foods together with the speed with which the gut converts them to sugar. People new to the index are usually surprised to find that white bread has practically the same glycemic index rating as table sugar, as does fruit sugar (fructose). However, different whole fruits have different index ratings. Grapes, for example, send me up very fast, but the same amount of calories in the form of an apple takes twice as long. The reason is not because of a difference in the sugar -- both are full of fructose -- but rather because the sugar in the apple is bound up in the fiber. It takes the gut longer to get at the sugar. Having said all of that, there are some Type 2s whose condition is not terribly advanced and they can get by just by cutting down on carbs. The problem is that carbs are converted to blood sugar so fast, and the beta cells cannot produce insulin fast enough when the patient needs massive amounts due to resistance. Personally, I think most of them should get over their needle-phobia and get some fast-acting insulin. Then they can eat all the carbs they want. I'm not sure what I'd do with a cat, however. I inject insulin before every meal, varying the amount, type and timing according to what I'm going to eat. But how can you control when and how much the cat eats? What if you have to work all day long and can't stay home to run over and inject the insulin every time you see the cat eating? The regimen that works perfectly for me would be just about impossible with a cat. However, it seems to me that diabetes in cats runs more or less the same as it does in humans, that is, most of it is resistance in older cats. In that case perhaps a couple overlapping shots of a slow-acting insulin would give a constant additional amount, as a boost to the cat's endogenous production. And cats shouldn't be eating all that much carbohydrate anyway, so there would be less need for fast-acting insulin to cover it. Of course, just like human diabetes, every patient is somewhat different. Creating a regimen that works for a cat is just as much a trial and error process as it is in humans. The important thing is for the cat's owner to study up on the causes of diabetes and the types of insulin available, then work out a treatment that works for the particular cat. -- Bogus e-mail address, but I read this newsgroup regularly, so reply here. > I realize that the majority of the populace thinks that diabetics > cannot eat sugar. That is old hat. With modern insulin a diabetic can > eat anything that a non-diabetic can eat. Exactly. A lot of people don´t know that carbs are sugar, so foods like bread, rice, potatoes, pasta are equivalent to table sugar except looks and tastes different. > I should also steer you to the glycemic index. I´m familiar with it but thanks! :) > I'm not sure what I'd do with a cat, however. For a human to live without carbs is very hard, I myself couldn´t do it. But cats hardly have any carbs at all in their natural diet, so where´s the logic in feeding carbs to a diabetic cat and having to shoot insulin in them? From what I read regarding humans, proteins and fats do not affect the glucose level of the blood in more than 2% and I don´t think this would be any different with cats. As a matter of fact, "in carnivores, blood glucose concentrations are more consistent (eg, less postprandial fluctuations), because glucose is released in small continuous boluses over a longer time frame as a result of gluconeogenic catabolism of proteins." The carnivore connection to nutrition in cats, Debra L. Zoran, DVM, PhD, DACVIM* > Exactly. A lot of people don´t know that carbs are sugar, so foods > like bread, rice, potatoes, pasta are equivalent to table sugar except > looks and tastes different. The thing about simple sugars is that your blood glucose goes up faster. Also sweets are concentrated so you get more carbs than you might think. Gotta count those exchanges!  SignatureWhen the fog came in on little cat feet last night, it left these little muddy paw prints on the hood of my car. An article worth reading.... Diabetes and Obesity- Elizabeth Hodgkins, DVM First, let me say that there is no ONE cause of adult onset (Type II) diabetes (diabetes mellitus or DM) in the cat. The disease, like most diseases, is multi-factorial in the cat, as well as in humans. In fact, the feline version of type II diabetes is more like human type II diabetes than this condition in any other species that has been studied. Type II DM is not an autoimmune disease, but genetics certainly do play a part. Certain cats are predisposed to developing adult onset DM, while others simply are not. However, type II DM in even predisposed cats is not commonly a matter of auto antibodies being produced against pancreatic tissue as is true if other autoimmune diseases (some cats do produce antibodies to injected insulin from other species used to treat feline diabetics but that is not the same as an autoimmune phenomenon causing the diabetes in the first place). In fact, there are some extremely important environmental factors, and inappropriate diet is chief among these. The cat is an obligatory carnivore. As such, it is dependant for good health upon a diet that is very high (greater than 50-60%) in animal source protein. In the wild, cats seek out diets that have nutrient profiles with at least this much protein, about 30-40% fat, and 1-2% carbohydrate. Unfortunately, the extruded dry foods we feed our pet cats today has a very distorted nutrient profile for cats (just as the present, government-recommended, high carbohydrate diet for humans has a distorted nutrient profile for humans). Most of these dry cat foods contain very high amounts of cereal grains in order to make it possible to put the ingredients through an extruder to produce "popped" kibble product. The result is a food that has 18-30% protein, 15-22% fat, and as much 40-60% predigested starch (read sugar!). As this kind of diet has become more and more popular as a sole diet for pet cats in our society, those pet cats have become fatter and fatter (like people on a high carbohydrate diet, only worse) over the past few years, and the incidence of type II DM has soared among that same population. Ask any vet if he or she is seeing a lot more of this disease among his/her patients than a decade ago. The answer will be "yes!" It is certainly true than most serious cat breeders do not have a lot of problems with this disease. The reason is not just that those breeders have skillfully bred genetically DM resistant cats, however, although that can be a part of the whole story. The larger reason is that most, if not all, breeders feed a significant amount of canned foods and fresh raw or cooked meats. Although most breeders do provide dry cat foods to their cats, the diet of their breeding animals is not even close to 100% dry food, as is often the case with pet cats in 1-3 cat households. Consumption of dry cat food causes a very rapid and extreme surge in blood glucose as the predigested carbohydrate in the food is dissolved and absorbed into the bloodstream essentially as sugar from the stomach and intestines. This rapid rise in blood glucose causes the pancreas to secret a much larger amount of insulin in response than would be needed with a more natural, high protein, moderate fat diet. Ultimately, the constant abnormal stimulation either suppresses or exhausts the pancreas (we're not sure exactly which, yet), and clinical diabetes results. This process takes months to years to occur, depending on the individual cat's ability to withstand the effects of this abnormal metabolic effect. Along the way, the constant high insulin levels (hyperinsulinemia) cause the cat to experience hypertriglyceridemia (high triglycerides) and hypercholesterolemia (high cholesterol), and obesity results. Our research has shown that weight reduction in even the most obese (but otherwise healthy) cat is no more complicated than withholding all dry food, and providing free choice canned food or fresh meat as the sole diet. Thus, although I agree that obesity does not cause type II DM, DM and obesity have common causes in the cat and in humans as well. Excessive carbohydrate consumption, over time, causes both obesity and strongly predisposes the cat, an obligatory carnivore, to the metabolic "train wreak" we know as type II feline diabetes mellitus. Once this condition exists, effective treatment absolutely requires that a high protein, moderate fat and low carbohydrate diet be used in these patients. High fiber diets like w/d and r/d (and their analogs by other companies) DO NOT WORK, and they do not work because they are loaded with carbohydrate that continues to dump sugar into the blood stream of an animal that already has problems handling sugar. For now, there is compelling scientific evidence to show that high carbohydrate diets (essentially all dry cat foods) fed to pet cats on a continuous and exclusive basis predispose to, or even directly cause, feline obesity and type II feline diabetes mellitus. In time, I believe we will learn that other common feline maladies, such as hyperthyroidism and urinary tract disease, are also related to this very abnormal and non-physiological practice of feeding large amounts of carbohydrate to animals not at all equipped to handle this nutrient in such quantities. Conscientious breeders will want to keep their eyes on the research into this very important aspect of cat breeding and proper cat husbandry. Elizabeth Hodgkins DVM http://rocquoone.com/diabetes_and_obesity.htm >Subject: Re: Diabetic Cat >From: c864320@yahoo.com (Liz) >High fiber diets like w/d and r/d (and their analogs >by other companies) DO NOT WORK, and they do not work because they are >loaded with carbohydrate that continues to dump sugar into the blood >stream of an animal that already has problems handling sugar. Actually, tell that to my vet friend who has successfully treated hundreds of cats over the years w/ the diets above. >For now, there is compelling scientific evidence to show that high >carbohydrate diets (essentially all dry cat foods) fed to pet cats on >a continuous and exclusive basis predispose to, or even directly >cause, feline obesity and type II feline diabetes mellitus. I've never experienced this w/ any of the cats I have ever owned. That doesn't even begin to address the millions of cats that have succcessfully dropped the weight on dry foods like Science Diet Light, w/d, r/d, and others! > > True type II diabetes does not respond to insulin unless there?s > > glucose toxicity. Insulin tells a cell to take up glucose from [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > But insulin is still the drug of choice for all kinds of diabetes > because it is the most benign and is easiest to control. Insulin is "benign?" Some murders have occured as well as numerous unintended deaths from too much insulin. -- ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain" > Our cat Sam (large, neutered male, about 7 years of age) has recently been > diagnosed with diabetes. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Does anbody else have a cat on such a high dose? Is it that unusual? 12 units/day is a very high dosage and presents a risk for rebound hyperglycemia if there's any deviation in the cat's caloric intake. How was your cat diagnosed? Did your vet order a serum fructosamine or glycosylatated hemoglobin test to distinguish pathological hyperglycemia from physiological (stress) hyperglycemia, and a urinalysis for glycosuria (sugar in the urine)? Stress can drive a cat's BG to >300 or >400 mg/dl. Think about it: From the time the cat is put in a carrier, then put in the car (cats generally don't like the unsettling movement), then at the vet's office where he's inundated with hundreds of scents from past and present animals and barking dogs, then placed on a cold exam table and palpitated from head to tail, then a thermometer is inserted into his rectum, then he's restrained while a needle pierces his neck or leg - about an hour passes and the cat undergoes enough stress for his defensive mechanisms to kick in and for physiologic hyperglycemia to develop. Many of our cats that were hyperglycemic at the vet's office were normal after a few hours back at the shelter. Are you monitoring your cat's BG at home? This is *very* important - especially with such a high dose. How was the dosage calculated? Did your vet perform a glucose curve? A glucose cure helps determine the dose based on the rate your cat metabolizes the insulin with the cat's diet However, the *same* food, in the *same* quantities, and fed at the *same* times must be followed during the test as when the cat eats at home. This can be difficult without contributing significant stress since most cat won't eat at the clinic and must be force-fed. Is your cat overweight or obese? Has he been checked for possible occult infections. Glycosuria is breeding ground for bacteria and infection. One last suggestion: Do not change your cat's diet without consulting your vet! A drop in caloric intake or carbohydrate intake can result in an insulin *overdose* if the dosage isn't adjusted,. and activation of the Somogyi Phenomenon. You might want to go to http://www.acvim.org/Kittleson/search.htm and do a search for an internal medicine Diplomate/Specialist in your area. American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine Diplomates are about the best there is. If you can't find an ACVIM specialist in your area, my second choice would be an ABVP Diplomate/Feline Specialist (American Board of Veterinary Practitioners). Go to http://www.abvp.com/diplosearch1.htm http://www.abvp.com/ Good luck. Phil > > Our cat Sam (large, neutered male, about 7 years of age) has recently been > > diagnosed with diabetes. [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Phil Phil - Just out of curiousity, have you heard of or tried methods of diet modification (lower carb) and L-cartinine supplementation for diabetics? I know of a vet in San Jose who is doing this with her diabetic patients with great results - I personally know one kitty that is now non-insulin dependent because of this protocol. I don't know if it is published yet or not, though. What have you heard/seen on the subject? -L. > Phil - > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > know if it is published yet or not, though. What have you heard/seen > on the subject? I followed Drs. Greco's and Peterson's research from the beginning because it was of great interest to me. Diabetes is more common in the aging feline population. We're a no-kill organization so many of our cats are older. I was able to wean several cats off of insulin completely and significantly reduce the insulin dose in others by feeding a high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet (you should find several of my old posts about this in the Goggle archives). However, the plan is not suited for, nor does it work with every cat. For example, diabetic cats in early-to-mid stage CRF can become azotemic fairly quickly from catobolizing the high-protein diet. The plan also doesn't work very well with cats that have IDDM - and more than half the cats with diabetes have IDDM.. Send me your email address and I'll send you some literature. Phil > > Phil - > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Phil primoturtle (at) yahoo (dot) com Thanks! -L. > Our cat Sam (large, neutered male, about 7 years of age) has recently been > diagnosed with diabetes. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Does anbody else have a cat on such a high dose? Is it that unusual? Hi Stephen, If you haven't already, you might want to visit www.felinediabetes.com and www.petdiabetes.org. On the latter site, you can join a mailing list made up of owners of diabetic pets. I belonged to this list for a couple of years when I was caring for a diabetic cat and found it very helpful. My cat wasn't on PZI so I can't answer your question, but I'm sure if you posed the question to the list, you'll hear from a lot of people whose cats are on PZI and you'll also get tons of advice and suggestions for this trying period when you are trying to figure out the best insulin and dose for your cat. You can also read through the archives on the site. Select PetDiabetes Mailing list from the resources for information and support section. If your cat is having problems getting stabilized, you might want to try changing the type of insulin being used. There are several different types, and cats respond to each one differently. Also note that the insulin shots have to be given exactly on time. If your cat is only having one shot a day, you might want to do two shots instead - most cats do better with two shots a day. As usual, no changes should be made to what you are doing without first discussing them with your vet. Good luck. > If you haven't already, you might want to visit www.felinediabetes.com and > www.petdiabetes.org. On the latter site, you can join a mailing list made > up of owners of diabetic pets. I belonged to this list for a couple of > years when I was caring for a diabetic cat and found it very helpful. Oops, the mailing list I belonged to is at www.petdiabetes.com, but the one at petdiabetes.org looks helpful as well... What kind of food has you cat been given the past 7 years? Thanks very much to all of you who have responded to my posting. I've gleaned a lot of useful information from all of the replies and ensuing thread(s). Some of you have requested further information about Sam: - He's a large, neutered male, about 7 years old (we think - we got him from a Cat Rescue centre!). He weighs 6.6 Kgs (14lbs) but is not obese - he's relatively sleek and well-proportioned for his size. - He's on a prescription diabetic diet - Hill's Feline w/d, a dry cat food that we have here in the U.K. He also has a small portion of tinned cat food (Whiskas Senior - which he loves!) for breakfast to ensure that he's had something to eat before administering his insulin injection. - The vet has had him in for 24hrs to do a glucose curve, just to make sure that he's not 'insulin-resistant'. He responded well. - Although he's up to 12 units of PZI a day, we're reasonably hopeful that he's close to being stabilised. (Incidentally, injecting him twice daily is out of the question for us due to our work-shift patterns - we can only guarantee that one of us is around in the morning). - He goes back to the vet in about 10 days for another blood test (fructosamine, I think!). Let's hope he's there! Thanks again, everybody Regards Stephen Ward |
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