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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / August 2005New cat integration update - Megan's no help any more. Need info.
Backstory: Chloe is a six year old spayed, declawed female. She's been living with a fat, older neutered male and a Jack-Russel terrier hybrid in an uneasy truce. She's relocated to Minnesota with her owner, my son's girlfriend. The girlfriend will take the cat with her when she goes to college next year. We currently own a 10 year old Maine-Coonish moggie and a 2 year old Bengal. We've had a previous bad experience adopting a stray male, neutered when we took him into the house. He and the Bengal mixed it up. The first week went well. Chloe is a wonderful kitty with a great temperament, but she's easily overstimulated - which I attribute to her front paw declawing (present at adoption). She hisses but doesn't strike, and I figure it's just a matter of learning her cues. She was cloistered in my son's girlfriend's room. The second week went not so well, since I'd overlooked Megan's advice to keep the new screen-door on Chloe's isolation room covered with cardboard. She saw the Bengal and was alarmed. We installed the screen door and Chloe was upset, though our resident kitties were curious but not violent. We closed up the room again last week, and Chloe seemed happy. Today my son's girlfriend leaves for band camp, and since she shares the room with Chloe, this seems like a good time to re-install the screen door. Megan was guiding me through this process - saying "I think this introduction can work, but you have to do EXACTLY WHAT I SAY". Unfortunately, I dropped the ball, and didn't have the cardboard screen up when she told me to. When I told her about this, she was very angry. Then she stopped talking to me. Now I'm adrift... Though I have enormous respect for Megan (she adopted our stray Henry and has done extremely good things for him) I have to say that she's left me alone in this process. All the things that folks here have complained about seem to have a grain of truth in them - in that Megan needs to have total control. Maybe she's a savant who can see the perfect disposition for kitties. I don't doubt for a minute that she loves cats and has great expertise in their handling - I've seen her work firsthand and it's amazing. But I've pissed her off and no longer have the luxury of her help. So now I'm trying to reconstruct what she's suggested to me about the integration of these kitties. And now I turn to this newsgroup to help me with a new cat. 1. One week behind closed doors 2. One day with an open screen door, where the residents regarded her passively, but she felt threatened and hissed. (this was where I dropped the ball and didn't follow/understand Megan's instructions) 3. Another few days behind closed doors. 4. One escape, where she smelled the other cats and got upset 5. Another week behind closed doors. 6. "mommy" (my son's girlfriend) on vacation, install screen door with cardboard blocks in place. What's next? I've apparently squandered my relationship with Megan, so need help from the newsgroup. My impulse is to introduce Chloe to the residents under supervision. However, the Bengal reacted quite badly to the neutered male we brought in. Perhaps an older, spayed female would be different. I've trusted Megan's instructions in the past, but now since she's written me off, I have to rely on my past experience, and other folks on this newsgroup. I feel like I have no allies. I hope someone will chime in with suggestions. Thanks, as always, for any info. BLink > Backstory: Chloe is a six year old spayed, declawed female. <snip> Slow and steady wins the race. After a reasonable amount of time (couple weeks) where the cats can smell each other through the door, you can open it - and let her come out at her own pace, supervised. Since she is declawed, I wouldn't let them spat too much - but eventually you have to let them sniff noses and hiss or whatever they will do. I wouldn't leave her unattended in the house without people home until you can be 100% certain that the cats are getting along. It has been my experience that they will sooner or later work it out amongst themselves, although with her being declawed I would not leave them unattended for any length of time. Also, YOU need to be calm - if you freak out the cats will pick up on it. You sort of have to read the situation and see if it is going to escalate - if so stop it and put her back in her safe room. Good luck, -L. >I feel like I have no allies. I hope someone will chime in with >suggestions. Brian, you are the quintessential suburban liberal. I have a feeling someone could make a pretty good sitcom out of your household activities. Anyway, I am delighted to chime in with suggestions. I would say, supervised contact is the way to go. Will Chloe allow you to hold her? If so, keep her in your arms and take her into the room with the bengal. Keep the dog out of it initially. Then see if you can set her down on the floor. If she hisses, etc., that's no big deal. If they actually look like they are going to fight, then remove her back to the bedroom. If you can get them to settle in a room together, start feeding them together. Someone posted a cute story about feeding the neighborhood cats treats. One night she went out and there were the cats and several raccoons, all sitting calmly in a semi-circle waiting for treats. Animals are pragmatic. I think a week from today you can feed all three animals together if you do it my way. And if you don't do it my way, I'll be fine with whatever you decide. Now, as for Megan, let's be frank. I have no hangups about sexual orientation, but I have observed, anecdotally of course, that lesbians tend to be extremely bitter and alienated. And, by definition, they are women. Ergo, they automatically have two strikes against them in terms of their capacity for reason and maturity. I can only counsel pity for Megan as one of society's psychiatric cripples and suggest you choose your advisor from a different subset of the public next time around. Good luck. Charlie > Backstory: Chloe is a six year old spayed, declawed female. She's been > living with a fat, older neutered male and a Jack-Russel terrier [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > BLink Geez, Brian, lighten up. Introducing cats isn't rocket science. Just use your head. Don't use Megan's, or anybody else's "formula" as though it were engraved in stone. Every cat is different. "One week behind cardboard, etc. etc." just isn't right for every cat. Just don't get in a hurry. It's better to drag it out longer than necessary than to jump the gun and throw them together too soon. That's when the problems start. Sherry >> Backstory: Chloe is a six year old spayed, declawed female. She's been >> living with a fat, older neutered male and a Jack-Russel terrier [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > >Sherry I second that. The first two I got went together right away. The other 2 I kept seperate for 1 week with 1 and 3 weeks with the last. You have to be flexible. My babies http://users.ameritech.net/lestark/ http://members.aol.com/larrystark/strays.htm > >Geez, Brian, lighten up. Introducing cats isn't rocket science. Just > >use your head. Don't use Megan's, or anybody else's "formula" as though [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > I second that. The first two I got went together right away. The other 2 I kept > seperate for 1 week with 1 and 3 weeks with the last. You have to be flexible. And it took me about 3 months with Pearl. I went from separation, to swapping rooms half days then to swapping rooms while I was out and supervision in the evening with separation at night to finally all out together all the time. Aggression came out at times, and I would go back to half day swapping with me supervising when home. > My babies > http://users.ameritech.net/lestark/ > > http://members.aol.com/larrystark/strays.htm http://tinyurl.com/dr6m6 I found an old post from MaryL discussing how she integrated Holly and Duffy. She has pictures too that might help you. W > Backstory: Chloe is a six year old spayed, declawed female. She's been > living with a fat, older neutered male and a Jack-Russel terrier [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > BLink >> Megan was guiding me through this process - saying "I think this > introduction can work, but you have to do EXACTLY WHAT I SAY". > Unfortunately, I dropped the ball, and didn't have the cardboard > screen up when she told me to. When I told her about this, she was > very angry. Then she stopped talking to me. Now I'm adrift... Saying the process is the same for every cat is like saying that all cats are the same. Consider that introductions are done all the time by millions of people successfully. Megan is a nut. She had serious problems five years ago and they have only gotten worse. Just use common sense. > Though I have enormous respect for Megan (she adopted our stray Henry > and has done extremely good things for him) I have to say that she's > left me alone in this process. All the things that folks here have > complained about seem to have a grain of truth in them - in that Megan > needs to have total control. Who was it that said that? <snip> > The second week went not so well, since I'd overlooked Megan's advice > to keep the new screen-door on Chloe's isolation room covered with [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > and has done extremely good things for him) I have to say that she's > left me alone in this process. <snip> > BLink You know, Brian, it is really unfairof you to say that Megan has "left you alone" in this process. You clearly indicated that you had not followed some of her advice -- yet she was willing to offer more help, but only if you followed exactly what she said. That was fair warning, but you ignored it again. Megan probably does not need anyone to come to her defense, but I am doing so because she gave me a *great deal* of help when I wanted to introduce Holly to Duffy. I did explicitly follow her advice -- and had numerous questions for her throughout the process -- and the results have been everything I could have hoped for. Holly previously had been so aggressive to every cat that was in my presence that we called her "the black tornado." There is a later message in this thread (from "W") which links to a previous message of mine in which I described the process. Ironically, all of that was really based on excellent advice from Megan. She was available *every* time I needed help, but in turn I always followed those instructions. At this point, I would suggest that you try to follow through on the suggestions that have been given to you. You must be totally committed to the process if you want to be successful. Yes, some people have been able to just "throw two cats together and let them work it out themselves," but that approach has often been a recipe for disaster. Right now, you need to take a very *slow and careful* approach to the introduction. That was part of the excellent advice Megan gave me. Every time I was tempted to try to speed up the process, she would remind me to take it easy -- and she was right. So, begin again, take it very carefully -- and be aware that you have undoubtedly cost yourself valuable time by ignoring some sound advice. In other words, it will probably take even *more* time now because serious mistakes have been made. If you want it, I will email a document that I have sent to several people in which I described the introduction process (much of which is in the link that "W" provided. All you need to do is send email to me and request it. Be aware, though, that almost everything I learned came originally from Megan. Some of the little steps she walked me through turned out to be the most important. You just can't take shortcuts and expect it to work as well. Incidentally, she is not so simplistic as to say that every cat will respond in the same way, but she has had so much experience that she can usually recognize what steps will work best and what needs to be modified. The two links below my signature are a pictorial "history" of some of the integration process with Holly and Duffy. MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Photos of Duffy and Holly: >'o'< http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") >You know, Brian, it is really unfairof you to say that Megan has "left you >alone" in this process. You clearly indicated that you had not followed [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >She was available *every* time I needed help, but in turn I always followed >those instructions. So the moral of the story is, kiss Megan's a.s. That works for you, but not everyone is so inclined. The woman has mental problems. Charlie >>You know, Brian, it is really unfairof you to say that Megan has "left you >>alone" in this process. You clearly indicated that you had not followed [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Charlie I'm not "kissing" anything, but I had a goal that I wanted to achieve. Megan was able to provide specific information, and I am sure she would have done the same for Brian -- but it doesn't do any good to seek information and then simply ignore it. When I go to a doctor, I try to follow his or advice. The whole introductin process was a team effort. Megan depended on me to accurately relay descriptions of the the behaviors of both cats and their interaction with each other. In turn, I counted on her to assess the situation and make recommendations. A successful team effort requires that all members play agreed-up rules! MaryL ><snip> >> The second week went not so well, since I'd overlooked Megan's advice [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] >http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) >http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") Thanks for the info. Please don't get me wrong, I have incredible respect for Megan's skills, and I like her. And as far as some of the other posts here go, she was not giving me a pre-printed formula for how to introduce cats. She knows my household and backstory. Her plan was well thought-out, but I fumbled by not knowing which pieces of advice were essential, and which were not. I guess I'm feeling a little sad that she threw up her hands and left me to fend - because I actually like her quite a bit, and was hoping to have her online for a resource and friend. As far as the introduction, I have good reason to be careful. In the past (11 cats over my lifetime) I've had pretty good luck "just throwing them together". However, when we adopted a stray (see the "Henry" posts) the house went nuts. Henry was not sociable, and Louis the Bengal totally freaked out. Fights, flying fur, blood; the whole 9 yards. We finally had to surrender Henry because we didn't have the time to do a proper, careful integration, and Megan saved our household - and Henry - by looking for fosters and finally adopting him. I will always be grateful for that - and the visit she allowed me and my son to see her amazing, happy menagerie. I REALLY don't want to open up the old flame-wars regarding Megan. I'm on her side - she's demonstrated her competence. Until now she's seemed friendly and affable - but I was pretty stunned when she basically washed her hands of me. Ultimately though, it's her choice what she does with her time, since she was basically volunteering as an expert. I'm glad to have known her. All the cats involved are very, very sweet. I hope we have luck integrating them all. Luckily, there's other expertise in this newsgroup, and I'm grateful for your advice. BLink > <snip> >> The second week went not so well, since I'd overlooked Megan's advice [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly) > http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in") Sorry about the "W". That's what happens when you get interrupted in the middle of doing something. I hope you didn't mind my posting that link but I remembered you talking about the introduction before and had seen the pictures. Figured between the two He'd be able to figure it out. W <snip> There is a later message in this thread (from >> "W") which links to a previous message of mine in which I described the >> process. Ironically, all of that was really based on excellent advice >> from Megan. She was available *every* time I needed help, but in turn I >> always followed those instructions. <snip> >> MaryL > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > W No, actually I was very pleased to see that you had posted the link (and glad to know who "W" is). It's always nice to see that someone thinks that information I have posted is helpful. Thanks! MaryL > Backstory: Chloe is a six year old spayed, declawed female. She's been > living with a fat, older neutered male and a Jack-Russel terrier [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > BLink > Backstory: Chloe is a six year old spayed, declawed female. She's been > living with a fat, older neutered male and a Jack-Russel terrier [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > BLink Per'aps I'll get flamed since so many people dislike Megan but I'll chance it (since no one else seems to be getting flamed currently). I think there's an element of you airing your dirty laundry here that is unattractive. It's one thing to flame other people on the newsgroup who you have disagreements with but it's kinda tacky for you to flame Megan since you have a personal relationship with her. You've been to her house, you've posted pics of her cats, you've sung her praises, and you've dumped the cat that was inconvenient to you on her who she is now caring for. And now you want her help again but don't listen to her. No wonder she's frustrated with you. Who wouldn't be? You could have posted your questions without slamming her or mentioning her at all and that would have been slightly more gentlemanly of you to do. It seems mean-spirited and petty of you. Looking the proverbial gift horse in the mouth, as it were. That said, it doesn't sound like you have that horrible of a cat problem yet. I have a cat who has to be separated from my other 2 even though I've had him for 14 months and even though I did what Megan and everyone else said to do. Everyone always says it always works out if you do all the right things. Wrong. Maybe it'll work out someday for me but not yet. Maybe it won't work for you either. So do what the other people say and give it a shot. If it doesn't work out, kick the girl, your son, and her cat out. Candace >Per'aps I'll get flamed since so many people dislike Megan but I'll >chance it (since no one else seems to be getting flamed currently). Megan is a nut. >I think there's an element of you airing your dirty laundry here that >is unattractive. It's one thing to flame other people on the newsgroup [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >now caring for. And now you want her help again but don't listen to >her. No wonder she's frustrated with you. Who wouldn't be? You could I wouldn't be, because I would have no expectations. Brian is a nut too. >have posted your questions without slamming her or mentioning her at >all and that would have been slightly more gentlemanly of you to do. >It seems mean-spirited and petty of you. Looking the proverbial gift >horse in the mouth, as it were. A fat dose of Megan is a dubious gift. >That said, it doesn't sound like you have that horrible of a cat >problem yet. I have a cat who has to be separated from my other 2 even [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >other people say and give it a shot. If it doesn't work out, kick the >girl, your son, and her cat out. I think your situation is somewhat unusual. What would happen if you didn't separate your cats? It's certainly wise to follow an orderly process when introducing the animals, but at some point, I think Brian could just put them in a room together and see what happens. Maybe when they are both good and hungry, so he can distract them with food if they start to act feisty. It seems to me that animals who can be taught to eat peacefully together will get along the rest of the time, generally. I know there are many exceptions. Brian may find that he has no problems to speak of. Charlie >>Per'aps I'll get flamed since so many people dislike Megan but I'll >>chance it (since no one else seems to be getting flamed currently). [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > >Charlie I simply respect Megan's ability because she's been able to integrate many cats, with varying histories and dispositions. Again, if you haven't noticed my history, I've always had an easy time "throwing cats together". The stray we adopted threw our house into insanity, and so now I'm wary. We have a Bengal, which complicates things a bit, too. He's got a unique, part-wild personality unlike other moggies I've owned. BLink >> Backstory: Chloe is a six year old spayed, declawed female. She's been >> living with a fat, older neutered male and a Jack-Russel terrier [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] >who you have disagreements with but it's kinda tacky for you to flame >Megan since you have a personal relationship with her. "Had" - apparently. And I don't regard what I've said as a flame. If you need help identifying a flame, you haven't been reading this newsgroup very closely. And it must not have been much of a relationship. >You've been to >her house, you've posted pics of her cats, you've sung her praises, and >you've dumped the cat that was inconvenient to you on her who she is >now caring for. Eh. Now you're sounding like Mary. Siegfried and Roy had to dump a cat that was inconvenient for them. Anyway, we had Henry for over six months, and were told he would need 10 hour a day supervision to do the integration properly. My wife and I couldn't quit our jobs, unfortunately. >And now you want her help again but don't listen to >her. No, I was totally willing to listen to her. I misunderstood what she'd asked me for. >No wonder she's frustrated with you. Who wouldn't be? You could >have posted your questions without slamming her or mentioning her at >all and that would have been slightly more gentlemanly of you to do. >It seems mean-spirited and petty of you. Looking the proverbial gift >horse in the mouth, as it were. Well, I was pretty unhappy. And I have a tendency to speak right up, not unlike Megan. She was coaching me through brain surgery, and when I picked up the wrong instrument she told me I was on my own. Now I have to finish brain surgery. >That said, it doesn't sound like you have that horrible of a cat >problem yet. I have a cat who has to be separated from my other 2 even [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >other people say and give it a shot. If it doesn't work out, kick the >girl, your son, and her cat out. Kind of an extreme solution.. Yes, the problem is decaying every day. This would have been a good time to have a pro to rely on. I'll probably end up hiring someone. Sorry about the dirty laundry. But I hope you saw the parts in the OP about my respect for Megan's competence, if not for her bedside manner. >Candace
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