I'm not trying to keep an infant off the sofa.  

It would not harm an infant though, no.

HOWEDY mlbriggs,

Yeah, mlbriggs is a PUSSY.

It's MEDICAL GRADE STATIC LIKE STIMULATION, remember, janet?

Not for janet's kat who's been IN TREATMENT at the
NEUROLOGIST for ATTACKING HER when she PUNISHES
her dogs, mlbriggs.

That's IRRELEVENT. The FACTS ARE, that ALL temperament
and behavior problems and 90% of VETERINARY TREATMENT
are IDIOPATHIC / IATROGENIC aka CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
aka ABUSE <{):* ~ (  >

That's IRRELVENT. We're talkin abHOWET HURTING
INNOCENT DUMB CRITTERS on accHOWENT of animal
abusers like janet shock choke crate bribe
intimidate and surgically MUTILATE their defenseless
dumb critters and children.

You're askin MENTAL CASES who WOULD DO THAT
to an INFANT to TEACH THEM so THEY DON'T
GET HURT.

HOWEDY janet,

Janet B wrote:

Right. HOWER DOG LOVERS only use their CHOKE collars
to give a "COLLAR PUP CORRECTION."

You can't. We got to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE DISCREDIT
and INCARCERATE these lying dog abusing punk thug
coward active acute long term incurable MENTAL CASES
who choke shock bribe crate intimidate and murder dogs.

THAT'S IT in a NUT shell, janet. YOU HURT INTIMDIATE
and MURDER dogs and LIE abHOWET it on accHOWENT of
YOU MAKE MONEY off of HURTING INTIMDIATING and MURDERIN
dogs JUST LIKE HOWE your PUNK THUG COWARD MENTAL CASE
pals do... <{); ~ ) >

You mean, on accHOWENT of HE DON'T HURT INTIMDIATE
and MURDER dogs like you DOG LOVERS PREFER?

You mean, JUST LIKE HOWE Lucy TRAINED HER OWN DOG NEARLY
INSTANTLY withHOWET DOIN NUTHIN like HOWE you and your
MENTALLY ILL LYING DOG ABUSING MONEY GRUBBING MENTAL CASE
PALS do, janet?

INDEED. JUST LIKE HOWE ALL The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual Students from ALL OVER The WHOWEL
WILD WORLD REPORT RIGHT HERE, janet? YOU KNOW, the WONS YOU
CALL LIARS and their posts FORGERIES by The Amazing Puppy
Wizard to SELL HIS 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual, janet?

You mean, a 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Student, janet,
who DON'T HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs like HOWE you do?

You mean like HOWE to give a CHOKE COLLAR CORRECTION
withHOWET CHOKING dogs, janet?

INDEED? Seems HOWER DOG LOVERS got NO PROBLEM
for choking (not REALLY CHOKING, just collar
puping) and shocking (not REALLY SHOCKING, just
a static like stimulation, kinda like walkin
across a cold carpet and touch the kat) and
locking their dogs in boxes (not REALLY BOXES,
MOORE like DENS, dogs bein DEN critters an all)
and spraying aversives (not REALLY aversives,
just a drop of water with a little lemon juice
and vinegar in it) and bribing (not REALLY BRIBING,
just offering and withholding REWARDS for GOOD
behavior) and MURDERING (not REALLY MURDERIN,
just humanely euthanizing) dogs you're SCARED of
HURTING and INTIMIDATING someMOORE <{); ~ ) >

Shocking dogs inspires TRUST in their gentle
loving owners who'll spare NO EXXXPENSE to
SAVE their dogs from the dreaded needle for
not being able to UNDERSAND the MEANING of
UNCONDITIONAL LOVE as demonstrated with your
pronged spiked pinch choke and slip choke
and electronic shock devices (not REALLY
PAIN FEAR FORCE and INTIMDIATION DEVICES,
just TRAINING TOOLS) <{); ~ ) >

IMAGINE such IGNORANCE.

Of curse not!

janet PREFERS a pronged spiked pinch choke
or shock collar as they're GENTLER than
ordinary choking (well NOT REALLY CHOKING,
just a corrective collar pup).

A slip choke collar...

INDEED. The jewler's link gives a better CORRECTIVE
LEASH PUP... (not REALLY A CHOKE, it's MOORE like a
karate chop to the larynx, if you know HOWE to deliver
WON pupperly).

You mean the S-HOWEND of the links closing
in a CORRECTIVE LEASH PUP arHOWEND the dog's
throat, janet...

You mean, when there's noWON there to SEE you CHOKING
your dogs, janet? Your own dog Frankling swallows
EVERY THING he can find. Your kat ATTACKS you when
you punish your dogs on accHOWENT of you surgically
MUTILATED his paws, janet, KNOWING that declawed kats
BITE on accHOWENT of they're AFRAID, janet.

INDEED. It kinda MAKES LIARS and DOG ABUSERS HOWETA you.

INDEED?

That so? You mean when you ain't jerkin and
choking the dog on your pronged spiked pinch
choke collar, janet...

You mean those FREAKY dogs that STRUGGLE when choked, janet?

RIGHT... so they don't BREAK their thin slip chokers...

You mean you SHOCK dogs, janet.

You mean, the dogs you CAN'T HURT ENOUGH with
your pronged spiked pinch and slip choke collars,
janet <{); ~ ) >

You mean, when you CAN'T HURT the dog ENOUGH to
make IT RESPECT YOUR G-D LIKE AUTHORITY, janet?

IT MEANS YOU HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs
and LIE abHOWET it, janet...

HOWEDY Rosemary,

Rosemary wrote:

HOWER dog lovers will do and say ANY THING to defend
their alleged right to hurt intimidate bribe crate
shock and murder dogs as they see fit.

All you gotta do is LOOK UP their posted case
histories and ASK THEM abHOWET it. They'll DENY
their own written words, and they'll all swear
to it havin been a MISTAKE, that they don't MEAN
what they SAY.

NOT HERE IT AIN'T.

As it will be HERE, when The Amazing Puppy Wizard is
done IDENTIFYING EXXXPOSING and DISCREDITING these
mentally ill lying dog abusing punk thug cowards.

NOT SURPRISING a DOG ABUSER would DENY the facts.

BWEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!

BWEAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

You mean, LIKE THIS?:

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

Here is a video from Fred which I have a few concerns
about (and maybe Fred can weigh in if he sees fit), THE
SAME "FRED" that johnny would invite to heelp his
shelter dogs learn RESPECT.

This is a video about Nero being taught to get on
a skateboard.

http://www.studioonline.com/pl­­ayvideos.asp?crypt=A7E284B9ABD­­FCE0F

or http://tinyurl.com/389al

In this video, the dog is constantly jerking his
head all around. I'm not SHORE why he's doing that.
If he's doing it because he is being shocked repeatedly
into getting onto that skateboard, then it is my
opinion that Fred Hassen is a dog abuser in the
extreme. As would anyone be, no matter how much
"experience" they had shocking dogs, nor how
nationally "respected" they are/were.

If, HOWEver, the dog is jerking his head all around
because he is happy and for no other reason, well,
then, never mind. I've just never seen this kind of
behavior from a dog before, so maybe Fred can
explain what would cause a dog to move his head
like that.

Here's a other:
http://tinyurl.com/2v9oh

You mean, LIKE THIS?:

"misty" <Momi...@webtv.net wrote in message
news: 16990-3CAB1F8...@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...

I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do
know she's not here with us. I really can't blame
anyone here for her loss.

I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because
of how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the
idea that my using a shock collar could have any
bearing on Peach not wanting to stay home.

Up until I started using it my main concern had been
keeping my dogs in their own yard.

Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my
concern became how to keep them from running
off for days on end.

I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled
in the anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.

I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world
now <g> A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely
housetrained, doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard,
and doesn't bark all the time.

IOW a great companion and friend.

Thanks Jerry!

===================misty" <Momi...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6337A1-329@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring.
Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.

Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not
want to come back in the yard and would run for
days.  The last time, Peach didn't come back home.

I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how
to train my dog. She is now border trained.  A few
minutes each day reinforces her desire to stay in
the yard. She no longer runs out into the road, I
can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer
cringes when we walk around the yard.

I can not say loud or long enough how much I
hate the e-fence and its collars.  If you can't get
a regular fence then you need to train your dog.

I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep
my dog in our yard again.

The price was too high:-(

~misty

------------------------------­­--

From: Nevyn (greatd...@badmama.com.au)
Subject: Re: radio fence
Date: 2003-11-05 04:17:45 PST

Hi folks,

In my opinion the use of a radioshock fence is a waste
of time, effort or money. I can understand it if you a
rich snob who cares nothing about their dogs safey or
behaviours. At work I boundary train all the dogs to
the bricked area (Four kennels with 26 cages with 1
dog in each, 1 services building and 2 catterys which
is surrounded by scrubland to the east and woodlands
to the north and a lake to the west). This works well,
because then when people buy them the dogs are easier
to boundary train to a door or fence or yard.

However on a personal note, my two shelter mutts, who
I trained using the WITS END DOG MANUAL available at
www.doggydoright.com will not go past the back door,
or the back gate or the front gate without permission.

And it is nice, for when you are having a party, you
can leave your gates open for people, and your dogs
won't be the least concerned. I find this better then
spending your well earned money on a piece of junk
Why not use it to invest in a horse? Or a new house?
Make a nice aquarium? Build a nursery for a child?

Save your money. Train your dog. Please.

-------------------------------
Thankyou,
                 Nevyn
______________________________­­___
Nevyn E.D.
Veterinary Nurse & Animal Trainer
greatd...@badmama.com.au
"You can judge a man's heart by his treatment of animals"
______________________________­­____

<Snip gently shock fence links>

TRY THIS:

Some run through it. Others get shocked and become
too scared to go out in the yard anymore.
Just heard of a guy that has to rehome his dog,
because the dog got caught right in the path of
the shock and will now not go near his person,
won't go outside.

Just hides under a desk in the house.

           ------------------------------­­----

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

"I know this is a hard subject to bring up without starting the
whole cruelty thread again so I'll state my opinion once and
won't defend it further: any method can be cruel for some
dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then. She trusts
us now as I mentioned in a recent post. Point is, she's been
rewarded for coming, but she's never been punished, even in
the mildest way, for not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?"

You mean, LIKE THIS?:

granville's DEAD DOG ATTACKED a child biting
her viciHOWESLY in the face for standin in front
of a fence that reminded her of her SHOCK FENCE
JUST LIKE HOWE liea altshuller's dog Cubbe
ATTACKED her only friend and tried to attack two
children when they stood in her SHOCK ZONE and
culprit aka kelly's dogs MURDERED her DEAD KAT
and attack each other thanks to their SHOCK FENCES.
Here's a child gettin MAULED, thanks to a shock fence:

HOWEDY granville,

granvi...@indigo.ie (Granville) wrote in
<vI62a.8882$V6.11...@news.indi­­go.ie>:

Well, permit The Puppy Wizzzard to turn you INSIDE OUT.

That'll improve the spin... so you can kill your dog
in good conscience, just like you been HURTIN IT in good
consicience, cause that's the NATURE of a lying dog abusing
Punk Thug Coward who'd HURT their dog and then KILL IT, to
be FAIR.

Yeah. That won't last long, HOWEver.

They WAS. WON IS ABOUT TO GET DEAD NOW.

Yeah. The Puppy Wizzzard's been EXXXPECTING you.

WELCOME TO WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method School Of HARD KNOCKS.

You're about to KILL your dog, as PREDICTED.

Yeah. That's HOWE COME you'd HURT them. You wouldn't
have the balls to hurt a dog like The Puppy Wizzzard's
dogs, cause they'd mop the goddamned floors with you
for HURTIN them...

Of course not. That's on account of they fear you,
cause you hurt them.

Cause you'll HURT them if they don't give it up...

Yeah... Just sad.

The Puppy Wizzzard don't PLAY games. You HURT
your dogs, that's HOWE COME they've now turned
AGGRESSIVE:

From: Granville (granvi...@indigo.ie)
Subject: Re: e-fencing question
Date: 2003-01-29 05:26:47 PST

I have found the secret is for the dog to associates
something different and new with crossing the barrier.

I put on the lead, leave on the collar,
turn the system off and walk the dog across.

Ok so the first time the resist, but they soon learn
that it's ok to cross over with their leash attached.

It gives them "permission" to cross with you and the leash.

I don't take the collar off, because I use a training
collar as well. I don't want the dog becoming "collar
smart" and only obey if they have the collar on."

The "training" collar being your PRONGED SPIKED
PINCH CHOKE collar...

Yeah.. just relaxin.

Then the dog looked around and seen the fences...
and the kids.

Yeah.. surprise, surprise, surprise...

Good for you!

The sight of the fence nearby the kids provoked
memories of every shock your poor dog has taken
from your shock fence.

Yeah. He went really NUTS cause YOU HURT HIM.

He'll probably do the same thing, he's just learnin HOWE.

That so? You think it's fine to get your head bit by
a dog at the park on lead?

Yeah... a stroke of LUCK... hunh? You mighta got sued
BIG TIME had the dog ripped the kid's face off, like he
wanted to do for the kid, cause YOU HURT HIM.

Of curse not!!! You'll NEVER SEE the TRUTH, cause
that's SCAREY, and THAT would MAKE YOU SAD. You're
EMBARRASSED lookin at your own HUMAN NATURE.

We don't need EXXXCUSES for HURTIN HOWER dogs.

The child didn't HURT the dog. YOU DID. You BEEN HURTING IT
since day WON.

The dog was frightened of YOU.

The Puppy Wizzzard does. The Puppy Wizzzard sez
only THUGS PUNKS and COWARDS HURT DOGS
and then they KILL THEM, TO BE FAIR.

YOU HURT YOUR DOG TO "TRAIN" IT.

Now you wantPERMISSION to KILL IT.

You got The Puppy Wizzzard's PERMISSION to
KILL your dog... so long as you EXXXPLAIN
to your KIDS, HOWE COME YOU GOT TO KILL YOUR
DOG, CAUSE YOU HURT IT, and MADE IT FEAR CHILDREN.

Can society TRUST YOU with a child. The Puppy
Wizzzard sez NO. You're a liar and an abuser.

Of curse you can... you have since the git go,
since day WON...

It's YOU who is SICK.

Cause she knows you'll HURT HER if she plays rough...
like the food and bone and pullin on leash. It's all the
same same same same...

NOT IF YOU HURT THE DOG ENOUGH.
She's SAFE, so long as YOU HURT HER
IN ADVANCE.

You're the bum who's been tellin US to HURT HOWER dogs.

You're facing your own human nature, SUCKER.

What you SHOULD do has NEVER been a question for
you. You've done what your HUMAN NATURE DICTATES:
HURT less capable beings, and LIE to DEFEND YOURSELF.

You'll KILL this dog, and in a few months when his
littermate turns on the family or a neighbor's kid,
you'll KILL IT, too...

And when your kids grow up and end up in jail or nutHOWESES,
you'll blame THEM for not listening to you when you was
SETTING THE EXXXAMPLE of HUMAN DECENCY.

The Puppy Wizzzard doesn't pander to lying dog abusing Punk
Coward Thugs who're fixin to KILL their dogs cause THEY HURT
THEM:

THANK YOU!!!

The Puppy Wizzzard NEEDS YOUR CASE HISTORY:

From: Granville (granvi...@indigo.ie)
Subject: It's not like that.....
Date: 2003-01-30 10:49:38 PST

I must disagree....none of what is contained in the
article resonates with me nor have I seen it with
the other 7 people I know who have an electric
fence.

The dogs restrained include Retrievers, Spaniels,
Wheaten Terriers, Labs.

I accept that there is a theoretical risk if you
have a highly strung or more bullheaded animal.

However I have seen such animals going beserk
behind fences and trying to dig under them and
gnawing at them.

In my view the animal has been out of control through
their dislike of any restraint. The problem is primarily
with the animal not the method of keeping them restrained.

However in this case it's a moot point...given we are
talking about a balanced animal.

I have two labs...and there has never been an issue of
agression nor their natural protective instincts being
heightened by the EF.

Strays get seen off and the dogs stop at the boundary
and bark .....at worst.

The notion that a stray getting into the fenced off
area and affectively having your dog captive within
the area is true, however I have never seen it.

Probably because dogs tend to protect their space,
and strays get the signals that they are not wanted.

But hey just for fun lets speculate for a while.....

Imagine your dog is pefect and sits in the yard...you
have no EF nor perimeter fence...In strolls another dog
into the yard.

What happens...if your dog sees them off, or plays..no
issue If your dog is fearful and cowers and stays in situ....
well thats just the dogs personality....no issue

Why would you put an EF down in this instance?.....
Strikes me as there is no need.

What happens if your dog bolts and/or chases rather
than stays in situ. Well unless you want to give total
freedom to run wherever they fancy, you either have him
permanently chained up, you put up a yard fence or you
lay down an EF.

In my view the best and most cost effective option

in keeping an even tempered and placid dog humanely
contained throughout the day is the EF.

In the two years I have had an EF I have could count
the amount of corrrections on two hands.

They learn really quickly.

By the way the installation is really easy..took me a
half day to do a yard...150 feet X 100 feet.

So much for your shock fence bein HARMLESS, diannes.

If you look up her POSTED CASE HISTORY you'll
see diannes ONLY posts to defend HURTING dogs.

INDEEDY.

RIGHT. THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard
has been studying HUMAN BEHAVIOR...

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good
of its victims, may be the most oppressive. Those
who torment us for our own good will torment us
without end, for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis.

"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC), Agamemnon.

"Only the unenlightened speak of wisdom and right action
as separate, not the wise. If any man knows one, he
enjoys the fruit of both. The level which is reached by
wisdom is attained through right action as well. He who
perceives that the two are one knows the truth."

"Even the wise man acts in character with his nature,
indeed all creatures act according to their natures.
What is the use of compulsion then? The love and
hate which are aroused by the objects of sense arise
from Nature, do not yield to them. They only obstruct
the path." Bhagavad Gita, adapted by Krishna with
permission from His FREE copy of my FREE Wits'
End Dog Training Method manual.

Force training JERRYIZES dogs, and GETS THEM DEAD.

Here's Cubbe ATTACKING a neighbor's dog
and previHOWEsly attacking liea's only friend
and assaulting a couple kids and escaping her
surrHOWEND SHOCK SYSTEM, which MADE HER AGGRESSIVE:

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

"It Was Horrible! I Let Cubbe Out In The Backyard With
Her Usual ZAP Collar - The 10 Year Old Child Went To
Give Cubbe A Hug She Gave A Snarl-Snap Cubbe Got
Out In The Neighborhood Leashless:

Julia F N Altshuler (d0006...@dc.seflin.org)
Subject: 1 step forward, 2 steps back
Date: 2001-01-07 19:28:05 PST

Cubbe got out in the neighborhood leashless for the
first time in roughly 2 years. The first few times were
when we first got her before she'd had any training
and before we got the electric fence to reinforce the
physical one.

It was horrible. She paid us no attention, ignored
clickers and treats and calls. Make that, it was
horrible for us. She had a blast running free and
chasing whatever she wanted.

For us it was 45 minutes of sheer terror as we
tried to catch her.

Luckily there wasn't too much traffic yesterday
morning. It had snowed, and the streets weren't
quite clear yet. Jim finally caught her when she
was preoccupied with her head down a hole.

For 2 years I've been giving her a daily long walk in the
neighborhood. She now walks pretty nicely on a leash.
She gets daily indoor clicker training sessions.

She has perfect recalls in the house. She gets
intermittent treats for those recalls. She gets
plenty of time to run free in the backyard.

Her recalls are less reliable there, but I've been
working on them. I haven't been as good about
introducing the variable reinforcement there, but
I have been good about making sure that she's
never tricked into coming into the house when
she'd rather be outside. I always call her, give
her a treat or praise and let her go again.

So I haven't been a perfect dog trainer, but I don't
think I'm a terrible one. I say that because I'm about
to ask y'all for some help in correcting my mistakes,
and while I don't mind criticism for past mistakes, I
am hoping you'll concentrate on what I should do now.

Yesterday morning Cubbe had had some nice backyard
time. I'd gotten her into the house and was preparing
to leave when she escaped straight through the front
door and right in front of our noses.

She was still wearing the zap collar, but the
battery was low. She gave a small yip when
she went over the wire, and the chase ensued.

We were careful not to scold her once she was caught.

Today I let her out in the backyard with her usual zap collarnow
with a fresh battery. She was waiting by the backdoor to come in
when I went to call her. From her excited behavior, I could tell
that she fully expected to be let out the front door again so she
could have another fun romp in the neighborhood.

I'm so filled with anxiety from yesterday's
escapade that I keep checking for her every
time I open the door.

Later in the afternoon, she was much worse
about coming when called even from the backyard.

My specific questions:

How do I teach recalls when she so clearly knows
when she's in a confined space and when she isn't?

She normally only wears the zap collar when she's in
the backyard because the wire goes around the house
and could zap her when she's near certain windows inside.

If I let her get zapped at the front door with the
zap collar, can I still take the zap collar off and
walk her out the front door with her leash on?

I don't want her to become afraid of the front door.

What's the best emergency procedure if, god
forbid, it should happen again?

Might Cubbe be ready for harsher training techniques?

By this I mean, I've been using clicker and treats for
Cubbe because she so obviously freaked when we used
leash corrections and scoldings when we first got her.

I know this is a hard subject to bring up without
starting the whole cruelty thread again so I'll state
my opinion once and won't defend it further: any
method can be cruel for some dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for
Cubbe at the beginning, but we've come a long
way since then.

She trusts us now as I mentioned in a recent post.
Point is, she's been rewarded for coming, but she's
never been punished, even in the mildest way, for
not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?

Last night we had friends over for dinner with their
3 daughters ages 14, 10 and 7. The girls loved
Cubbe and were having a blast clicker training her.
I was impressed with how quickly they caught on
and how little correction they needed to be consistent
with the clicks and treats.

Cubbe was fine with the children; she always
has been. Just as they were getting ready to
go, the 10 year old went to give Cubbe a hug.

Cubbe must have felt threatened and confined
because she gave a snarl-snap.

I was right there, and without thinking I quickly yelled,
turned Cubbe over on her back, got in the face and let her know
that no snarling is allowed. The girl wasn't
frightened at all, and her parents who were also right
there hadn't realized what had happened. I then asked
the snarlee to rub Cubbe's belly further to reinforce
that Cubbe is the submissive one in that relationship.

I let Cubbe up and all was fine.

I suppose that's another issue, but I bring it up as part of
wondering if Cubbe should be trained with punishments now.

Like I said, I did that without thinking, and now I think it
was the right thing to do. So how do I apply this to dealing with
Cubbe the escapee?

--Lia

================"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshu...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3DC4A3BD.645A4FC9@attbi.com...

From: Julia Altshuler (jaltshu...@comcast.net)
Subject: Cubbe report: Chief
Date: 2003-09-12 21:04:11 PST

Chief if my neighbor Jo's 40# 1 1/2 year old Sheltie.
Jim has been running into them on his morning walks
with Cubbe. For a week he's been feeding me glowing
reports about how Cubbe is terrific with Chief.

Cubbe has never been particularly wonderful with any
other dog, so terrible in fact that I'd despaired at ever
seeing Cubbe frolic and play with other dogs.

I'd resigned myself to the idea that Cubbe is happy
with her people, her yard, her squirrels, her spot on
the couch, and that makes a pretty good life, one
that doesn't involve the companionship of her own
species. Jim's reports were encouraging.

Jim convinced Jo to bring Chief over for a playdate.
We put Cubbe on a leash so she could meet Chief
again on neutral territory. They sniffed as dogs
normally do.

Chief and Cubbe entered the front door. To my
amazement, all was fine. Out in the backyard
and off leash, Cubbe didn't pay much attention
to Chief, but there was no trouble even though
she and Chief were close to each other.

Both dogs seemed more interested that their
people were handing out treats (for good behaviors
like SITs).

Jim went into the house for some balls thinking the 2
dogs would like to chase them together. He did not
consult me about this hare brained scheme.

Jo and I were 5 feet away from the dogs when Cubbe
decided to attack Chief. She's not an experienced
fighter so I don't know if attack is the right word. She
was snarfing, making growly noises, jumping on Chief,
had her mouth on Chief's neck (on his back, behind his
ears) and basically not looking friendly, but I think if she'd
wanted to do real damage, she would have, and Chief
was fine, nary a hair out of place.

Naturally with us all right there, we were able to
intervene in seconds.

A second later, it was all over. Cubbe looked like she'd
like to be friends again, but Chief, while not running away
or anything was obviously spooked and keeping his distance. Jo
and Chief went home. (I went with them
for chat and apologies, but that's not part of the Cubbe
story.)

Cubbe has never food or toy guarded with people.

Might she have been guarding the balls Jim brought
out? Or was it the fact that we let our guard down for
a few seconds and she got scared of Chief when we
all weren't practically on top of her?

Or did we push her too far by leaving her and
Chief together for too many minutes when a
few seconds would have been better for a first try?

Or other theories?

Do we continue trying to find a dog that will put up with
Cubbe? Or do we give up again and go back to letting
Cubbe live a dogless existence?

--Lia

=================

HOWEDY mlbriggs,

Those "flashlight batteries" go into a TRAINsformer /
AMPLIFIER which boosts those harmless flashlight
batteries to 50,000 volts.

They make animals VICIOHOWES SHY and DEATHLY ILL
AS EVIDENCED by janet's own DEATHLY ILL KAT'S
posted case history <{); ~ ) >

PERHAPS HOWER critter lovers need to READ a lot more.

THEY HURT INTIMDATE FRIGHTEN AND DRIVE ANIMALS INSANE.

Naaaah, no need for THAT, mlbriggs...

You want to get the SAME EFFECT on these
animal abusers, PARTICULARLY the VETERINARIANS
who SELL and ENDORSE this ABUSE, mlbriggs?

GIVE THEM A TASTE OF THIS:

From: "Dr.Carla,DVM" <carla.pfeif...@insightbb.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Aug 2005 17:17:10 GMT
Subject: Re: Trying to keep my dog's ears dry and free of infection

Who is this supposed "puppy wizard"
I wouldn't trust anything they print.

"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).

A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."

"Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon
that an expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966)."

            ALL Temperament and Behavior Problems
                     And 90% Of DIS-EASE
                 Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.
                       THAT'S GOOD!
                THAT MEANS We can CURE ALL
              Temperament And Behavior Problems
                     And 90% Of DIS-EASE
                      NEARLY INSTANTLY
        Simply By DOING EXXXACTLY, PRECISELY, OPPOSITE
                  Of HOWE We've Been TAUGHT
             By UNIVERSITY TRAINED Behaviorists

HOWEDY People!

ALL Temperament and Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition."  Ivan P. Pavlov

THAT'S GOOD!

"It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).

A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966)."

THAT MEANS we can CURE ALL Temperament And Behavior
Problems NEARLY INSTANTLY simply by DOING EXXXACTLY,
PRECISELY, OPPOSITE of HOWE we've been TAUGHT TO
MISHANDLE and ABUSE HOWER dogs by the UNIVERSITY
TRAINED behaviorists and PROFESSIONAL PET CARE
SPECIALISTS who MAKE THEIR LIVING off of PERPETUATING
their SHEER IDIOCY and IGNOING the works of Drs. Sam
Corson, Dra. Mary Cover Jones, Breland & Breland, and
other notable psychologists IGNORED and OVERLOOKED by
the ABUSERS who TEACH US to lock HOWER dogs in boxes,
bribe, choke, intimidate, and IGNORE HOWER dog's,
children's and SP-HOWESES cries of FEAR and NEED and
WITHHOLD attention, affection, so called "rewards"
and UNCONDITIONAL LOVE TRUST and RESPECT.

Pavlov Told Us So 100 Years Ago. Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last
Student Demonstrated At UofOH Oxford, That Rehabilitation
Of Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific Management
Of Doggys.  <{) ; ~ ) >

WE CANNOT CONTINUE TO BLAME THE DOG OR ITS BREED:

                ALL Critters Only Respond In
              PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
                 INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
      To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
                  Which We Create For Them.

               You GET The Critter You TRAINED

                       A DOG Is A Dog;
                      As A KAT Is A KAT;
                    As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
                    As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
                  As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard has MUCH CASE HISTORY and PEER
REVIEWED SCIENTIFIC DATA to PROVE these "FAR FETCHED"
claims. HOWEver, for today's puporses, this will be all
that's necessary:

Here's your FREE copy of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual:

http://makeashorterlink.com/?G34D2527A

Just ASK The Amazing Puppy Wizard if you
need any additional FREE heelp. There's NO
arbritrary INFORMATION in your FREE copy
of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual so
study it well and do and follow ALL the
EXXXERCISES AS INSTRUCTED... it's a
PRECISE SCIENCE or it COULDN'T GET 100%
CONSISTENT NEARLY INSTANT SUCCESS for all
handlers and all dogs in all fields or
utilities and behaviors all over the Whole
Wild World <{) ; ~ )  >

                ALL Critters Only Respond In
              PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
                 INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
      To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
                  Which We Create For Them.

               You GET The Critter You TRAINED

                       A DOG Is A Dog;
                      As A KAT Is A KAT;
                    As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
                    As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
                  As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

            In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
                      FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
                      SAME SAME SAME SAME,
           For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

         Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
              We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
                 And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

        ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING

          Jer 21 And unto this people thou shalt say,
          Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I set before
          you The Way Of Life, And The Way Of Death.

          2Ki 19:6 And Isaiah said unto them, Thus
          shall ye say to your master, Thus saith
          the LORD, Be not afraid of the words which
          thou hast heard, with which the servants of
          the king of Assyria have blasphemed me.

                 The Puppy Prophet <{); ~ ) >

Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 09:41:01 -0500
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
<drv...@mindspring.com>
Subject: "time-out"

Dan, my own firm hatred of punishment has
recently been intensified by meeting The
Puppy Wizard, Jerry Howe, whose work with
dogs is marvelous.

There is a literature on harms caused by time
out, and perhaps you'd like to look at
http://www.dogydoright.com
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

"As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care."

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

"The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS
were moved to a delayed contingency the behavior and
learning immediately deteriorated."

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
<drv...@mindspring.com>

To: <pdd-aspy...@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 9:31 AM
Subject: How does diagnosis shape treatment?

How does diagnosis shape treatment?

Nearly every week I have a visit from Jerry Howe, who
publicizes himself as The Puppy Wizard. Jerry is a
master at behavioral modification of dogs.

His fundamental bedrock is the work Pavlov's last student,
the late Sam Corson, Ph.D., did at the U of Ohio (at Oxford,O).

Sam always pointed out if the dog stopped working for
you in the lab, Pavlov and he always took the dog away
from the lab, and put him in a loving home and gave him
TLC for a couple of months, and then started, very carefully,
over again.

Jerry believes that reward and constraint focused training
is immoral. I've watched him in one short session calm
impossible dogs, just about to be murdered (oops "put to
sleep") because of their "incorrigibly" violent behavior.

Sam was one of the first people to apply amphetamine to
hyperactivity (he searched the Middle West for hyperactive
dogs); but he never lost sight of the fundamental reality that
a dog is not a human, but does respond, doggily, to dog love.

You might be surprised to go to B. F. Skinner's "Cumulative
Record" and read the essay by Breland and Breland, "The
Misbehavior of Organisms".

Animals cannot be successfully trained unless the trainer
attends to the evolutionary history, the individual's
developmental history, and the environmental niche of
the animal being trained.

Yep, right there in Skinner's last and summary book.
Even with behavior mod, you must know the animal.

<snip>

       Dogs or little boys, you have to know the individual
       history, and the nature of he disorder.

       Dr. Von

       PS if you are interested in dogs, then take
       a look at Jerry's work.

         Dr. George VonHilsheimer writes in

         "Is there a SCIENCE of BEHAVIOR?":

"Valette 1966 is a complete trivialization of
scientific findings. It overstates the case for
reinforcement theory. No careful researcher
would contend that operant techniques CAN ANY
THING MORE than modify SHORT TERM BEHAVIOR in
a highly controlled and limited environment
with a large number of skillful experimenters.

Certainly the most elaborate studies have shown
that the withdrawal or temprary inefficiency of
the reward system is immediately followed by
CESSATION of the programmed behavior.

In fortunate contrast to this depressing paper
is the research reported by Whelan (1966) who
makes the simple but profHOWEND caveat that
"It is only through CORRECT, EFFICIENT APPLICATION
(of operant principles) that children's behavor can
be changed to the extent that they can subsequently
contribute to the REAL WORLD in which they live." "

  "The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
                   Never Change,
   Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Could Not Obtain
     Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
           For All Handler's And All Dogs,
           ALL OVER THE WHOLE WILD WORLD,
                NEARLY INSTANTLY,
  As Taught In Your FREE Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's
   FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual,"
            The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ )  >

Dr. Von continues:

"Whelan illustrates the simple nature or the
learning process by referring to Ferster's
engaging study of two three year old
chimpanzees taught mathematics through
simple procedures. Whelan carries this
EVIDENCE a step futher by pointing HOWET
it's applicability to disturbed children."

      You Get The Critter You Trained

              A Dog Is A Dog
            As A Kat Is A Kat
          As A Birdie Is A Birdie
           As A Child Is A Child
        As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES.

       ALL Critters Only Respond In
  PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL INSTINCTIVE
              REFLEXIVE Ways
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
         Which We Create For Them.

        Damn The Descartean War of
          "Nature Vs Nurture."
    We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
       And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.

  In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
          FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
              SAME SAME,
 For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.

Dr. Von continues:

"If chimpanzees CAN LEARN mathematics through step
by step learning AT THEIR OWN PACE, reinforced
primarily by CORRECT ANSWERS rather than with
"fruit loops and rasins", we can assume that even
developmentally RETARDED or CONfHOWENDED children
CAN LEARN as well.

Moreover, Whelan makes the EXXXTREMELY important
point that while most teachers assume that learning
takes place verbally, primarily it is a non verbal
process..

Unfortunately Whelan limits himself to the problem
that "teachers must not only modify or remove specific
deviant behaviors, but must also develop socially
acceptable behavior patterns in the classroom and
classroom conditioned goals, NOT LEARNING.

Other researchers have emphasized the importance
of adult behaviors in conditioning classroom behavior.
An EXXXCELLENT review of this research showd that
tantrum behavior, excessive crawling and dependency,
isolated play, passivity, spelling failure, and other
problem behaviors can be managed by altering habitual
adult responses to children (Harris, Wolf and Baer, 1964) .

Such RESEARCH holds GREATER PROMISE in that alteration
of the conditioning social environment seems to provide
more STABLE and LASTING CHANGES than "M and M's". Moreover,
a great deal of work has been done developing EFFECTIVE
techniques of behavior modificaton through the conditioning
social environment of peers (Hartup, 1964). These directions
would seem more PRODUCTIVE than a simple minded trainslation
of the Skinner cage to the classroom.

Skinner (1963) pointed HOWET that operant techniques
can "be utilized fully ONLY IF we REDEFINE the GOALS
of education and the CONDITIONS in the educational
environment under which those goals may be reached...
(through) a DIFFERENT KIND of educational research
which is much more closely concerned with the immediate
dimensions of the student's behavior than with gross
changes such as IMPROVED PERFORMANCES."

UNFORTUNATELY, neither Skinner nor ANY OTHER
learning theorist has provided us with a working
model of a school or research enterprise based
on systemic and thorough-going APPLICATION of
LEARNING PRINCIPLES.

Skinner (1948, 1953) approaches a definition of the
philosophical issues involved, and provides an utopian
model of a school, but generally psychologists seem
STUCK at a level of MANAGEMENT of an aggressively
disturbing child in the classroom, through peer approval,
or the aplication of accelerating CONsequences in the
classroom, or scientifically S-HOWENDING tactics like
"TIME HOWET" (which we used to know more simply
as "sendin the kid to the cloakroom").

Hobbs (op. cit.) claims that the classroom is a
natural environement for the child. Thelen (1965)
contends that "classroom practices are UNnatural,
UNreasonable, and 'against NATURE.' "This would
seem the central issue for the philosophy of education.
Mere trivial application of research findings to an
institution essentially unchanged from Sumerian academies
(Kramer, 1962) will NOT create useful teaching for
human beings.

It seems relevant to ask EXXXACTLY WHAT do we
know abHOWT the learning situation in which HOWER
children find themselves, and why, in the light of HOWER
knowledge, do we do any of the things that schools do?"

We know that there is little agreement among adults
as to what it is they are SUPPOSED to be DOING,
what something to do could be that MIGHT be
EFFECTVE, and what it IS that other people who
have authority over children ought to be doing (Mc-
Eachern and Taylor, 1967). Wherefor the child's
CONfusiHOWEN?

It is NO WONDER that the marked changes in
deviant behavior of children can be achieved
through brief, simple educative routines with
their mothers which modify the mother's social
behaviors shaping the child (Whaler, 1966). Some
clinics have reported ELIMINATION ofthe need for
child THERAPY through changing the clinical emphasis
from clinical to parental HANDLING of the child
(Szrynski 1965).

A large number of cases improved sufficiently after
preliminary contact with parents that NO treatment
of children was required, and almost ALL cases
SHOWE a remarkably shortened period for therapy.
Quite severe cases of anorexia nervosa have been
treated in own to five months by simply REPLACING
the parents temporarily with EFFUSIVELY LOVING
SUBSTITUTES (Groen, 1966).

Probably the most absurd figure in Amaerican mass
media is the TEACHER (Gerbner, 1966). HOWE can
we EXXXPECT children to LEARN responsible P-HOWER
from models of IMPOTENCE? We KNOW that LEARNING
a complex ritualized social role, is facilitated
by observation of an INTELLIGIBLE MODEL much more
effectively than by trial and error with REINFORCEMENT.

Roles which are relatively arbitrary and senseless are
the most difficult to learn (Luchins, 1966). Do we make
ANY EFFORT as teachers to CORRECT the massive impact of
media?

HOWE can the ARBITRARINESS and SENSELESSNESS
of IMPOTENT ADULT MODELS be redeemed by anything
short of RELEVANCE and COMMITMENT?

As an engaging final comment on the PROFESSION
let me mention the little study by Dittman et al (1965)
tha when 15 psychotherapists and 9 professional dancers
evaluated facial and bodily expressons for effect the
dancers were much MOORE accurate. Need we say MOORE
abHOWET the training of therapists?

THE OPERANT FALLACY

Programs utilizing the "contingencies of reinforcement
model" proposed by Skinner (1963) ar no more well
established in research than the various dynamic
therapists. Research in four areas : 1) direct evaluation
of programmed systems for elarning; 2) reinforcement;
3) cognitive dissonance; and 4) motivation, MOST SURELY
DEMOLISH the claims of operant programers.

The 190 studies annotated by Schramm (1964) when
inspected display NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES
in SUCCESS among approaches and modifications.
Programmed instruction is no worse than conventional
instruction, and takes less time, but time reductions in
conventional instruction has frequently been shown
possible without detrimental effects. If you draw your
controls cagily you can always show the superiority of
your PET technique.

Moore and Smit (1964) compared variations on
programmed materials, machines, texts, written
responses, merely reading, free response, multiple
choice, and iving or not giving the students results.
There were NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES despite
Skinner's insistence on the importance of the
CONTINGENCY of REINFORCEMENT. Carpenter
and Greenhill (1963) could find NO DIFFERENCE
in RESULTS even after eliminating the self-pacing
feature by presenting the materials by TV or Video.

Krumboltz and Kiesler (1965) reported that a two month
follow up test showed NO DIFFERENCE between students
given a variety of reinforcement schedules. Mayo and
Longo (1966) report that naval and marine trainees
saved 30% of time in learning electronics fundamentals
through a programed course witrh superior scores on one
measure but not on another, and with no follow-up reported.

The same authors reported a reductionj from 26 HOWERS
to 19 HOWERS in instruction time through the use of
program with NO DIFFERENCE in test scores, except
that as longer blocks of materiallearned through
programmed means were tesed the scores DECREASED.

When the control instruction is manipulated an entirely
DIFFERENT picture emerges Jacobs and Kulkarni (1966)
assignedstudents in three different schools to classes
with standard programmed material giving immediate
knowledge of results to classes without results and to
classes with the order of sections of the program inverted.

In two schools the groups without knowledge of results
and the groups with inverted material SCORED HIGHER.
In one school there was NO DIFFERENCE. So much for
THEORY. Reid and Taylor (1965) presented a linear
program on paper-making to 60 paid undergrads with
a 12 week follow up test. The group which merely
read learned the same material in 154 minutes to
243 minutes for the group given responses- a
REVERSAL of the usual BIASED RESULTS based
on POOR CON-TROLLS. There were no differences
on post tests.

Spagnoli (1965) reports on a study exposing the control
and programed group to the same material in a concentrated
effort over a limited period of time. There were NO
SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES.

Sassenrath and Garverick (1965) gave 4 matched
groups of 120 students four procedures: 1) looking
up the wrong answers, 2) having questions discussed
by the instructors, 3) checking answers from correct
ones on the board, and 4) no feedback. The discussion
method proved best.

Finally, in studying means of training men to perform
a 72 action prcedure on Nike-Hercules equipment,
Cox and Boren (1965) demonstrated that the time
required to learn the procedure to critterion was NO
DIFFERENT when the actions were organized into
seven operant spans and taught in reverse order, in
natural order, or without grouping into operant spans
at all.

IT IS CLEAR that as comparisons became more
sophisticated programed instruction and other
operant teaching techniquesreveal tehemselves
as simply another prestigiHOWES FAD--somewhat
better than conventional instruction in saving time,
but certainly not providing a better or better organized
or more independently useful GRASP of KNOWLEDGE.

The IMBECILITY of some of the claims for operant
technique simply take the breath away. Lovas et al
(1966) report a standard contingent reward/punishment
procedure developing imitative speech in two severly
disturbed non verbal schizophrenic boys. After twenty-
six days the boys are reported to have been learning
new words with alacrity. HOWEver, when REWARDS were
moved to a delayed contingency the behavoir and learning
immediately deteriorated.

Despite this, and despite the fact that there was no
evidence of cognitive association with the words, the
authors leap to the conclusion that the fact that the
boys improved in the acquisition of Norwegian words
WITHOUT REWARDS while still being given English
words WITH REWARDS suggest hat the children may
be able to acquire new behaviors on their own.

The need for this study escapes one, particularly in
view of the very well established fact that schizophrenics
condition quite readily (Mednick, 1958)

One can see the "SCIENTIFIC" PRECISION by which the
authors drop contingent reinforcements thus PROVING
that the parrot behavior was indeed caused by the
schedule and NOT by some other mystical force.

The use of Norwegian to demonstrate learning that
could not even remotely be related to previous history
is a grotesquery too bizarre to be credited. Who could
possibly doubt that this useless and probably damaging
trained seal routine depended on the psychologist's antics?

What on earth led them to believe that a schizophrenic
needs even more other-focused responsiveness?

Lovaas et al (1965) reported three programs carried
out on five year old autistic twins conditioining them
to "social behavior" and to eliminate pathologial
behaviors such as self-stimulation and tantrums.

Affectionate and other social behaviors toward
adults increaseed after adults had been associated
with shock reduction. The routine for this treatment
brings immediate relief to mind Sawrey and Wesz
(1956) routine for producing ulcers in monkeys.

I suppose it is USELESS to speculate on the source
of SO CALLED THERAPISTS willingness to experiment
on human beings with procedures for which there is
sound experimentally established WARNINGS. If the
"double blind" theory of the origin of schizophrenia
(Bateson, 1956) is at all valid, HOWE DEVASTATING
the experience must ULTIMATELY BE.

Do Lovaas et al REALLY BELIEVE the schizophrenic
has no cognitive processes and DOES NOT KNOW
WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SHOCK? Greger
(1965) criticized this study on the basis that
trainsfer CANNOT be generalized.

That issue can be answered by experience, and,
of curse, the "social" behavior of these children
deteriorates as soon as the psychologists LOOSE INTEREST.

The IMPORTANT ISSUE for a SCIENCE OF BEHAVIOR
is why not attempt those things which are KNOWN to
WORK at least in some cases if only for control puporses.

Kanner (1954) reports that 13 classically autistic
children improved enough to go to school without
"anything that is regarded as good psychotherapy or
as psychotherapy at all..."

Autistic children have been known to become
permenantely social by deinstitutionalization,
BY REMOVAL from the parents, BY RADICAL CHANGES
in other environments, and by MASSIVE DOSAGE of
TOUCHING, HOLDING, FONDLING LOVE DESPITE THE
REJECTION OF THE CHILD.

My case, Larry, (vonHilsheimer, 1965b), demonstrates
a recovery by using the mother as an autistic boy's
teacher in an open millieu. It is curiHOWES that the
operant technicians provide as few, and as UNIMAGINITAVE
controls for thier "research" as the Freudians.

REWARD / PUNISHMENT

Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING
THEORY model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT.
Of curse, Skinner has never to my knowledge,
demonstrated HOWE we escape the phenomenon
that an expected reward not received is experienced
as a punishment and can produce extensive and
persistent aggression (Azrin et al, 1966).

MIMICRY, PLAY, EXPLORATION AND
THE NEED FOR DATA

Complex activities are LEARNED MORE QUICKLY
through OBSERVATION (copying, if you will) than
by trial and error with reinforcemet (Luchins,).
Observers of subjects making a first trial of a multiple
choice bolt head maze made fewer errors than the
practiced subjects in the second run, while subjects
who have been shocked for error on a first trial made
more errors than either (Rosenbaum & Hewitt, 1966).
Students will modify their beliefs more when rewarded
for the way in which they carried out arguing for a
disagreeable position (role reward), than when rewarded
for the content of the argument (Wallace, 1966).

===================

           INTRO TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING MANUAL
           George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D. F.R.S.H.

Several years ago one of my old students telephoned
to me and asked me what I knew about Doggie Do
Right, a device to cause your neighbor's dog to stop
barking.

I had not heard of the device, nor its inventor, Jerry
Howe, but I telephoned, read his website, and told
my graduate that I thought the device was worth a
trial - indeed I shut up the dogs in my neighborhood
by turning on Jerry's supersonic device.

After all we all know that dogs respond to whistles
humans cannot hear, so why not respond to "attaboy"
sounds which humans cannot hear.

My student lived far from my Florida homestead, so
he tried it on the three incredibly savage, hyperactive
and noisy dogs who lived behind a tall fence just 3 feet
back of his bedroom.

Hot rats! The device worked,

Andy got his sleep and I didn't think much of the
matter again.

A few months ago I had new neighbors on each
side of my house, four of them, all with noisy
unshuttupable dogs. Argh!

So I foned Andrew in Virgina, received the intelligence
that his neighbors dogs were still quiet, and then I foned
Jerry Howe, the inventor of Doggie Do Right, who came
to visit me.

Merlin walked into my office.

Jerry is a slender fellow with a belly button lenghth grey
beard tapering down his chest. I liked him immediately,
and I applied his instrument to the neighborhood again
which again became silent.

It occured to me that if this ultrasonic field worked with
dogs that we ought at least to ask the question, what
happens to humans in range of the device???

I asked Jerry to give me a list of customers and began
inquiring among them. One thing became immediately
evident. The Doggie Do Right not only shuts up your
neighbors' dogs, it calms and modifies your husband's behavior.

Holey Moley, Captain Marvel, this device has major potential.

In the meantime Jerry gave me a copy of his Wits End
Dog Training Manual. I was delighted. He also introduced
me to the world of professional dog trainers some of whom
even have Ph.D.s in psychology.

This was not such a delight as it appeared that none
of these luminaries had actually read Skinner, Lazarus
or other fountains of wisdom in psychology. Indeed, it
seemed as though they knew very little about the laws
of behavior at all!

Punishment and confrontation seemed to be their
major stock in trade.

Well, if you go to my website, www.drbiofeedback.com
you can read of the career of Sam Corson, I.P. Pavlov's
last student.

Sam demonstrated that rehabilitation of hyperactive
dogs can easily and readily be done using TLC, tender
loving care is at the root of the scientific management
of doggies.

Pavlov told us so 100 years ago.

So what are these degreed morons doing punishing
dogs, and shouting "NO" into their doggie faces? If
you pick up B.F.Skinner's last book, CUMULATIVE
RECORD, included in it is an essay by Keller Breland
and Maryann Breland entitled THE MISBEHAVIOR OF ORGANISMS.

Skinner deliberately included his students' chapter
to emphasize that you cannot manage the behavior
of animals unless you take into consideration 1. the
animal's evolutionary niche (who is the animal?);
2. the animal's personal history (who is the animal?)
and 3, the instinctive repetoire of the animal (who is
the animal?) and 4. the personality of the animal (who
is the animal?).

The Brelands moved far from the white rat. "Thirty-eight
species, totaling over 6,000 individual animals, have been
conditioned, and we have dared to tackle such unlikely
subjects as reindeer, cockatoos, raccoons, porpoises,
and whales."

Jerry Howe spends most of his times with dogs, but
he has learned Pavlov's lesson well. Dogs are individuals,
they are individual DOGS, and they respond most directly
and immediately to love and tender loving care.

Read with pleasure, and then go love your dog.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
Who's Who Honoree since 1983

            From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)

        The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method

      I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
      years. I have a huge library that covers every system
      of training.

      The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
      Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
      the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
      method yet discovered.

      It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
      a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
      and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
      consistent manner.

      Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
      understand the basis of his system and please follow
      his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
      It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
      descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
      how their solution should be approached.

      One should not pick and choose from among his methods
      based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
      not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
      for not only training a dog but for raising a loving
      companion.

      When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
      you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
      produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.

      You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
      with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
      praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
      will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
      Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
      just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
      dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
      seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
      lie quietly and let me clip his nails).

      Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
      praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
      train you dog to respond to your commands.

      What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
      puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
      carry him in response to my recall command-and he
      comes running every time I call no matter where we are
      or what he is doing.

      At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
      his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
      his Family Pack Leadership exercises.

     Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
     scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
     if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
     you.

     Is Jerry a nut?

    It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
    It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based upon
    their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
    wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply
    when he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding
    or hurting dogs.

    More than that, he knows  that force is not effective
    and that it will certainly  lead to behavior problems;
    sometime problems so severe  that people put their
    dogs down because of those problems.

   I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
   their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
   at our wits' end, haven't we?

   Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
   literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
   respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
   to praise.

  Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
  wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
  You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
  dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
  along with their anxiety.

  Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
  Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
  would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
  success.

  Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.

  If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet little
  Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little gremlin
  (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry

       Instrumental / Classical / Operant / Conditioning
           CC / OC / IC / -P +P / +R -R / S R / R S
              It's ALL The SAME SAME SAME SAME
                        <{); ~ ) >

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400

   You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.

I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.

This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals.  Yum!

The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD.  They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.

Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.

A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired.  If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.

Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.

The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.

The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.

They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)

Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.

It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.

One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning.  Pfui!

Even Skinner understood this!

And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.

Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis.  Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source.  "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition."  Ivan P. Pavlov

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

            All truth passes through three stages.
                  First, it  is ridiculed.
               Second, it is violently opposed.
         Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
                   -Arthur Schopenhauer

            "Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
                even tho it's a hopeless task,
                     in this system of things.
                As long as man is ruling man,
             there will be animals (and humans!)
                  abused and neglected. :-(
                   Your student," Juanita.

        "If you've got them by the balls their hearts
                   and minds will follow,"
                       John Wayne.

             The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~  )  >

And a WHOLE lot more voltage than a 9V battery.

Unfortunately, those don't tend to cover a large area.

Oh brother,, here we go again.............

Maybe the lady does not care for "loud noise" from a cat deterrent device.
There are plenty of cats who are not deterred by noises, vibrations, taste,
or distractions when they are determined to do something.

BTW, there are those young people dressing Gothic style who wear those
spiked choker collars.  LOL