Dmitri update (paging PhilP again)

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Juls - 27 Jul 2005 22:49 GMT

Hi everyone and Phil,

I finally got a urine sample over to the doc and she just called me.
Things are pretty much in the normal range. He had a tiny amount of
blood in his urine, so he's going to do a week of antibiotics. (He's
never had a UTI) But his specific gravity is a tiny bit off, but not
horribly so and looks very good for a CRF cat. (early stage)

I did discuss the XD with her, so that's fine with her (Thanks Phil for
helping me with that, esp. how to bring it up). He's really starting to
not like the chicken KD very much. LOL. BTW, I was just reading your
post about starting a cat early on a low phosphorous food, and even
though my boys are both older (16 and 8), I will carry this info the
next time I get a cat, plus start working Jack into lower phos. food
now. That's VERY helpful info!

The main thing I wanted to mention is that Dmitri is drinking a lot
less water now that he's been on the KD food. He's always been such a
big drinker, so it had me a little worried, but she said that's a good
thing.

Thoughts? I'm feeling positive!

Juls

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Juls - 27 Jul 2005 23:07 GMT

Another update: Dmitri's vet just called again, and she actually called
the Hill's vet hotline and talked to them about this. Hill's said they
don't recommend the XD (or CD) for CRF cats because it can cause (I
hope I repeat this correctly) urine acid and cause renal acidosis.
Something like that. What they did recommend to supplement the KD was
their senior diet instead, and if he doesn't eat it all the time,
should be okay. So she's going to let me have some senior cans to try.
Then I can supplement the KD with that. It was all about the acid that
the XD/CD causes.

Another interesting thing she said is that the KD is calorie dense, so
he probably feels fuller after eating a smaller amount of that. I was
concerned because he doesn't eat tons of it the way he did his regular
food. (On a can of Pro Plan Salmon and Rice, which is his absolute
favorite, he could easily polish two cans in a sitting and then come
back for more in an hour) He's 14 and a half pounds, which sounds
large, but I don't want him wasting away. And he's been as much as 18
before. He's big boned. Really.

I was quite appreciative that she called the Hill's people. I like her
so much. (And so does Dmitri...he just loves her!)

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Phil P. - 27 Jul 2005 23:29 GMT

> Another update: Dmitri's vet just called again, and she actually called
> the Hill's vet hotline and talked to them about this. Hill's said they
> don't recommend the XD (or CD) for CRF cats because it can cause (I
> hope I repeat this correctly) urine acid and cause renal acidosis.

Whoever your vet spoke to at Hill's has her diets mixed up! x/d is almost
*identical* to k/d in acidity. That's precisely why x/d can be used in CRF
cats.

Directly from Hill's:

"Feline x/d has reduced sodium and added potassium citrate to help produce
an alkaline urine pH". Potassium citrate is also used to treat CRF cats
with metabolic acidosis.

x/d: "Target Urine pH - More alkaline (6.6 - 6.8)"

k/d: "Target Urine pH - More alkaline (6.6 - 6.9)"

Call Hill's yourself and ask to speak to someone in the prescription diets
department.

Phil

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Phil P. - 28 Jul 2005 01:45 GMT

I've been thinking about this. X/d and c/d are completely different diets.
Since the Hill's rep said x/d and c/d aren't recommended for renal cats, I
think someone misunderstood x/d for s/d- over the phone they could sound the
same. S/d and c/d are acidified diets used to treat struvite crystalluria
and uroliths and should definitely be avoided. X/d, however, is an
*alkaline* diet used to prevent calcium oxalate crystals. X/d and k/d are
almost identical except x/d contains more protein and a little more
phosphorus. X/d and k/d produce almost identical urine pH.

I think the Hill's rep misunderstood her. Call your vet back and explain
this to her.

Phil

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Juls - 30 Jul 2005 03:59 GMT

Again, great info and thank you. She might have misunderstood me, but
I'll definitely get back to her on this.

Another question...do you know how much phosphorus baby food peas and
baby food squash might have? Also canned pumpkin. I supplement Dmitri's
diet with these things because he has constipation issues and he loves
the peas almost as much as he loves a boiled shrimp.

> > Another update: Dmitri's vet just called again, and she actually called
> > the Hill's vet hotline and talked to them about this. Hill's said they
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Phil

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Phil P. - 31 Jul 2005 11:12 GMT

> Again, great info and thank you. She might have misunderstood me, but
> I'll definitely get back to her on this.

I'm certain there was a misunderstanding. x/d is an alkaline diet. I've
been
feeding it to our renal cats for about a year with nothing but excellent
results. In fact, the BUN/Cr in several cats actually *decreased*. Early
to midstage CRF cats seemed to wasting away on k/d; most of them made
dramatic comebacks after switching them over to x/d.

Go to Hill's site and compare the nutrient levels and acidity, yourself.
Print out the typical analyses and show them to your vet.

> Another question...do you know how much phosphorus baby food peas and
> baby food squash might have? Also canned pumpkin. I supplement Dmitri's
> diet with these things because he has constipation issues and he loves
> the peas almost as much as he loves a boiled shrimp.

You can look up all the nutrient contents of thousands of food at the USDA
Nutrient Database:

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/cgi-bin/nut_search.pl

hth,

Phil

> > > Another update: Dmitri's vet just called again, and she actually called
> > > the Hill's vet hotline and talked to them about this. Hill's said they
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> >
> > Phil

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