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Anti-social cats

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Richard Evans - 24 Jul 2005 04:29 GMT
I've been doing rescue work for 8-9 years now and I've fostered a lot
of cats. I have sort of a reputation in my group for being able to
socialize difficult cases. I've socialized shy cats, angry cats, hurt
cats, frightened cats, and feral cats, but there is one category that
eludes me: Otherwise perfectly normal cats that simply have no
interest in human company. They are perfectly happy to hang around on
the fringes of human behavior, sit near me when I'm working, take food
from my hands, even walk over me to get from one place to another, but
have no interest in being petted, picked up, or sitting on a lap.

Any thoughts on what causes this, or how to fix it?
CatNipped - 24 Jul 2005 04:33 GMT
> I've been doing rescue work for 8-9 years now and I've fostered a lot
> of cats. I have sort of a reputation in my group for being able to
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Any thoughts on what causes this, or how to fix it?

Not really.  My only comment is that some cats are just like that - they all
have such different personalities.  Sometimes it's breed specific behavior.

Maine Coons (which my Sammy probably has as 99.9999999999% of her ancestry,
going by appearances, although all four of mine are rescues) like to be in
the same room with you, "helping" in anything you do, but don't like to be
held.

Hugs,

CatNipped
Alison - 24 Jul 2005 10:11 GMT
>> > Not really.  My only comment is that some cats are just like
that - they all
> have such different personalities.  Sometimes it's breed specific behavior.

How does breed specific behaviour apply to whether a cat likes to be
picked up or not?
Alison
CatNipped - 24 Jul 2005 15:15 GMT
> >> > Not really.  My only comment is that some cats are just like
> that - they all
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> picked up or not?
>  Alison

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/cats-faq/breeds/coons/

"Temperament

  While Maine Coons are highly people-oriented cats, they are not
  overly-dependent. They do not constantly pester you for attention, but
  prefer to "hang out" with their owners, investigating whatever
  activity you're involved in and "helping" when they can. They are not,
  as a general rule, known as "lap cats" but as with any personality
  trait there are a few Maine Coons that prefer laps. Most Maine Coons
  will stay close by, probably occupying the chair next to yours
  instead. Maines will follow you from room to room and wait outside a
  closed door for you to emerge. A Maine Coon will be your companion,
  your buddy, your pal, but hardly ever your baby."
claudel - 24 Jul 2005 17:44 GMT
>> >> > Not really.  My only comment is that some cats are just like
>> that - they all
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>   closed door for you to emerge. A Maine Coon will be your companion,
>   your buddy, your pal, but hardly ever your baby."

Bubba, who is more or less a MC is too big for my lap at 20Lbs+. He hangs off
either side. He doesn't seem to like being picked up, either. Other than that
he's quite friendly, and acts pretty much like the quote describes, except that
he will take all the attention anybody will give him.

Claude
Alison - 24 Jul 2005 18:13 GMT
> >> they all
have such different personalities.  Sometimes it's breed specific
behavior.>>

> > http://www.faqs.org/faqs/cats-faq/breeds/coons/
>"Temperament
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>    as a general rule, known as "lap cats" but as with any personality
>    trait there are a few Maine Coons that prefer laps.<< Snipped">>>

Lovely, thank you for supplying the info.
Perhaps next time when I write in an indoor /outdoor cat debate;_

> I think every cat and every situation is different, sometimes it's
> breed specific too.etc >>

     you won't reply in a sarcastic way with -

>>Again, such authoritative assertions just *have* to be true,
because they
*sound* so good and they *support* Alison's arguments!!! >>>>

   Alison
CatNipped - 24 Jul 2005 19:18 GMT
> > >> they all
> have such different personalities.  Sometimes it's breed specific
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
>     Alison

Breed doesn't matter to a two ton vehicle - any breed will be just as flat
after such an encounter - your specious comparison doesn't apply!
Alison - 24 Jul 2005 20:52 GMT
"> "Alison" <Alison@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:dc0i7b$kdm$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > /> > > >> they all
> > have such different personalities.  Sometimes it's breed specific
> > behavior.>>

>    CatNipped" >  > I think every cat and every situation is
different, sometimes it's
> > > breed specific too.etc >>
> >
> >  Breed doesn't matter to a two ton vehicle - any breed will be
just as flat
> after such an encounter - your specious comparison doesn't apply!>>

Dur! Breed specifics applies as to why some cats adapted easier to
being kept
indoors than others.
BTW  Try posting original statements when answering peoples questions.
I hope
the Mommy Dearest stories you post on RPCA aren't plagiarised.
 Alison
CatNipped - 24 Jul 2005 22:17 GMT
> "> "Alison" <Alison@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:dc0i7b$kdm$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> the Mommy Dearest stories you post on RPCA aren't plagiarised.
>   Alison

Did the URL linking to the site and the quotes around the text not give you
a clue that I was quoting a source?  Um, never mind I forgot who I was
dealing with.
Alison - 24 Jul 2005 22:34 GMT
> " >> they all
> > > > have such different personalities.  Sometimes it's breed specific
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> > > >
> >> Did the URL linking to the site and the quotes around the text
not give you
> a clue that I was quoting a source?  Um, never mind I forgot who I was
> dealing with.>>.

      No, *not* that. The two sentences above.
               Alison
Alison - 24 Jul 2005 22:48 GMT
> "> >
> > ">> > > > /> > > >> they all
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> a clue that I was quoting a source?  Um, never mind I forgot who I was
> dealing with.>>

 No *not* that , didn't you noticed I'd removed the URL and info and
left the
two sentences at the top. I meant your statement to the OP.
      Alison
CatNipped - 24 Jul 2005 23:28 GMT
> > "> >
> > > ">> > > > /> > > >> they all
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>  two sentences at the top. I meant your statement to the OP.
>        Alison

I have *no* idea what you're babbling about, I didn't quote anything the to
OP, those were my own words.
Alison - 25 Jul 2005 15:11 GMT
>  >> they all
> > > > > > have such different personalities.  Sometimes it's breed
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I have *no* idea what you're babbling about, I didn't quote anything the to
> OP, those were my own words.>>.

< Sigh >  You recently asked what cat books people recommend and
   some recommendations were given. I suggest you read them. You'll
 have a better understanding of cats so that you *are* able to use
your own
  words.
        Alison
CatNipped - 25 Jul 2005 17:13 GMT
> >  >> they all
> > > > > > > have such different personalities.  Sometimes it's breed
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>    words.
>          Alison

You're still not making any sense and I have no idea what you're talking
about, but never mind.  I *knew* there was a reason I quit
reading/responding to your posts - arguing with idiots drives me crazy.
Buh-bye!
Alison - 25 Jul 2005 19:49 GMT
> "> You're still not making any sense and I have no idea what you're
talking
> about, but never mind.  I *knew* there was a reason I quit
> reading/responding to your posts - arguing with idiots drives me crazy.
> Buh-bye!>>

Nope, it's not me that's the idiot. As I have already said,
I wrote this a little while back

>  I think every cat and every situation is
different, sometimes it's breed specific too.etc >

You've just written in this thread

>they all have such different personalities.
Sometimes it's breed specific behahaviour >

Rather similar, don't you think?

 You responded to my statement at the time with -

>Again, such authoritative assertions just *have* to be true,
because they *sound* so good and they *support* Alison's
arguments!!>>

So does this apply to *your*  statement ?
  Alison
Mary - 24 Jul 2005 05:56 GMT
> I've been doing rescue work for 8-9 years now and I've fostered a lot
> of cats. I have sort of a reputation in my group for being able to
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Any thoughts on what causes this, or how to fix it?

They just haven't had any better
They don't know what it's like

If hanging out feels good, wait till they get held, they will love
that.
Being held is like hanging out on steroids.

Ever notice the hungrier they get, the closer they get?

mmhmmm
Richard Evans - 24 Jul 2005 16:38 GMT
>If hanging out feels good, wait till they get held, they will love
>that.
>Being held is like hanging out on steroids.

Not to the critters I'm talking about. They resist vigorously.

For that matter, of our own six cats, only three like being held. The
other three only tolerate it for a moment, though all six are
affectionate and social.

>Ever notice the hungrier they get, the closer they get?

No, for the hard cases that doesn't hold true. I had some modest
success with the current one, a young tortie named Tika, by placing
Pounce treats in my lap. She got so she would spend a few seconds
while eating the treat, but never did settle down.

Then I used treats to lure her into a carrier, and now she shuns
treats under  all circumstances.

Several years ago I had another one like this one. I withheld food,
only feeding her from my lap. I sat with a dish of tuna on my lap. She
would go so far as to place her paws on my knee, but never actually
got to the food. After four days, I simply gave up. We placed her with
a woman who kept a wildflife refuge and she spent her days in a
screened carport with raccoons and squirrels.
Gracecat - 24 Jul 2005 06:09 GMT
> I've been doing rescue work for 8-9 years now and I've fostered a lot
> of cats. I have sort of a reputation in my group for being able to
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Any thoughts on what causes this, or how to fix it?

When you find out, please let me know. Our black girl, Glitter is skittish
if I don't pet her several times a day. But if I spend an enormous amount of
time trying to socialize her, she'll get to where she doesn't flinch. But
she still isn't keen on attention. She tolerates it, but it's very apparent
she doesn't desire the attention.

Of course,  if I skip so much as a day without petting her, she startles
again. Wierdest thing I ever saw.

Grace
Mary - 24 Jul 2005 08:06 GMT
> > I've been doing rescue work for 8-9 years now and I've fostered a lot
> > of cats. I have sort of a reputation in my group for being able to
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Grace

Dance for a peanut butter cookie Gracie

doo, dee dee doh, doo doo dee

aaata girl
her ya go! slchump

doo, dee dee doh, doo deee deee

oh! GooD Girl!

laaa laa leeee laaa
Alison - 24 Jul 2005 10:32 GMT
> ">
> When you find out, please let me know. Our black girl, Glitter is skittish
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Grace >>

It's thought that  personality can be genetic and also the first few
weeks of a kitten's life
when the hard wiring of the brain connects is important; if it doesn't
receive adequate socialisation then, it affects his behaviour later in
life.
You've been conditioning your cat to accept affection but it sound
like  you will always have to reinforce it.
 You can get something in the Europe called Felifriend similar to
feliway that you spray onto your hands when you handle a cat.
http://www.parkvets.com/microsite/orderformfelifriend.html

 Alison
Brandy  Alexandre - 24 Jul 2005 15:08 GMT
Alison <Alison@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

>  It's thought that  personality can be genetic and also the first
>  few
> weeks of a kitten's life
> when the hard wiring of the brain connects is important; if it
> doesn't receive adequate socialisation then, it affects his
> behaviour later in life.

Same for people.  That early bonding is very important.  But sometimes
it's just personality.  I got Kami at 8 weeks and I wasn't working so I
was home playing with her and (trying) holding her and having fun and
qiet moments.  But they are who they are.  Maybe it's astrology.  She's
an Aries.

Signature

Brandy  Alexandre®
http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx
Well, would you?

Alison - 24 Jul 2005 18:16 GMT
> Alison <Alison@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in
> rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> qiet moments.  But they are who they are.  Maybe it's astrology.  She's
> an Aries.

  I bet she's a handful:)  I don't know Kim's DOB so I don't know her
star sign.
Alison
Phil P. - 24 Jul 2005 10:14 GMT
but there is one category that
> eludes me: Otherwise perfectly normal cats that simply have no
> interest in human company.

Genetics play a roll in friendliness to some extent, but friendliness
towards people and handling also depends on how much the cat was exposed to
people, how many people the cat was exposed to, and how much the cat was
handled during her first two months of life.  Cats that aren't lap cats or
don't like handling probably weren't handled alot during their first two
months of life- a/k/a the 'critical period' or 'sensitive period'.

In my experience, the more handling a kitten receives during the first 2-8
weeks of life, the friendlier she'll be, and the more she'll enjoy handling
and being around people when she becomes an adult.

Phil
Brandy  Alexandre - 24 Jul 2005 15:05 GMT
Richard Evans <infodex@mindspring.com> wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

> I've been doing rescue work for 8-9 years now and I've fostered a
> lot of cats. I have sort of a reputation in my group for being
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Any thoughts on what causes this, or how to fix it?

I've lived with it for 17 years.  Kami likes to be petted, but only in
her spot.  She follows me around and keeps me in sight, but she's not a
lap cat.  She's not entirely anti-social, but darn close.  A little bit
like mom I guess.  ;)  

Signature

Brandy  Alexandre®
http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx
Well, would you?

Justin L - 24 Jul 2005 15:11 GMT
>I've been doing rescue work for 8-9 years now and I've fostered a lot
>of cats. I have sort of a reputation in my group for being able to
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
>Any thoughts on what causes this, or how to fix it?

My cat Elwood is like this. I have been trying something I read
somewhere - when he is on my lap, I give him treats.
When it looks like he wants to get up, give him another treat.

So far, it seems to be helping quite a bit.
Alison - 24 Jul 2005 18:25 GMT
>> My cat Elwood is like this. I have been trying something I read
> somewhere - when he is on my lap, I give him treats.
> When it looks like he wants to get up, give him another treat.
>
> So far, it seems to be helping quite a bit.>>>

That's a good idea:)  I think it helps to build up the time and not
put
any pressure on  the cat. Do you use Feliway ? You could spray it on
a soft blanket or vet bed and put it on your lap. If you don't have
Feliway ,
you could put a few drops of Rescue Remedy or Valerian compound on the
blanket.  It's supposed to help them relax.
Alison
Annie Wxill - 24 Jul 2005 16:15 GMT
> I've been doing rescue work for 8-9 years now and I've fostered a lot
> of cats. I have sort of a reputation in my group for being able to
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Any thoughts on what causes this, or how to fix it?

Hi Richard,
I don't see what needs to be fixed.  You said the cat was "otherwise
perfectly normal."
The cats seems fine to me, but I'm a bit of a recluse myself.
I'd say don't worry about it.  Accept the cat as is.
BTW, congratulations on your work and thank you. The cat nation and our
world are much better off because of you.
Annie
Richard Evans - 24 Jul 2005 16:43 GMT
>I don't see what needs to be fixed.  You said the cat was "otherwise
>perfectly normal."

Because she's a foster, and not very attractive when she won't allow
herself to be touched. It's hard to find families for cats like that.
Of our current six cats, five came to us this way: We couldn't place
them, for one reason or another. We love them dearly, but that's five
current fosters we can't care for.
Alison - 24 Jul 2005 18:36 GMT
> I've been doing rescue work for 8-9 years now and I've fostered a lot
> of cats. I have sort of a reputation in my group for being able to
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Any thoughts on what causes this, or how to fix it?>>>

   Well done for helping unwanted cats;)
What have you tried so far and what do they let you do?
I would forget trying to pick them up for now and concentrate on the
other two. I think cats will do what they find enjoyable and
pleasurable,
otherwise from their point of view there's no reason for them to sit
on a lap
or be petted.
         Alison
---MIKE--- - 24 Jul 2005 19:34 GMT
Amber hates to be picked up and won't sit on my lap.  She will sit next
to me and loves to be petted.  Tiger (possible Maine Coon) likes to sit
on my lap (all 23 pounds of him) and follows me around.  I say follows
but usually he tries to get in front of me.  He sleeps on the bed most
of the night but is always gone when I wake up.  Then Amber gets on the
bed for her morning petting.  

                 ---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44° 15'  N - Elevation 1580')
Alison - 24 Jul 2005 21:50 GMT
Amber hates to be picked up and won't sit on my lap.  She will sit
next
to me and loves to be petted.  Tiger (possible Maine Coon) likes to
sit
on my lap (all 23 pounds of him) and follows me around.  I say follows
but usually he tries to get in front of me.  He sleeps on the bed most
of the night but is always gone when I wake up.  Then Amber gets on
the
bed for her morning petting.  >>

They seem to have it all worked out:)  23lbs would crush me! Kim's
heavy for me at 10lbs.
Alison
sriddles@aol.com - 25 Jul 2005 00:49 GMT
> Amber hates to be picked up and won't sit on my lap.  She will sit next
> to me and loves to be petted.  Tiger (possible Maine Coon) likes to sit
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>                   ---MIKE---

Hi Mike--Have you ever posted a pic of Tiger? Can't remember if I've
seen him or not.

Sherry
---MIKE--- - 25 Jul 2005 01:21 GMT
Sherry- Here is a picture of Tiger.

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a746150&pq907933&Sequence=0&res=high

                 ---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44° 15'  N - Elevation 1580')
claudel - 25 Jul 2005 01:57 GMT
>Sherry- Here is a picture of Tiger.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
> >> (44=B0 15'  N - Elevation 1580')

URL gives :
"Sorry, the Web page address for this picture is no longer working."

BTW, if you enclose long URLS in <> like this

<http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=3D1777604&a=3D13746150&p=3D71907933=&Sequ
ence=3D0&res=3Dhigh
>

then they will stay as one line in most newsreaders

Claude
---MIKE--- - 25 Jul 2005 23:23 GMT
>> URL gives :
>>"Sorry, the Web page address for this
>> picture is no longer working."

Strange.  I clicked on the URL from my post and I got the picture.  When
I tried it as quoted in your post, I got the error message.  I'll try to
get a new URL from the album and post it.

                 ---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44° 15'  N - Elevation 1580')
whitershadeofpale - 25 Jul 2005 23:44 GMT
> >> URL gives :
> >>"Sorry, the Web page address for this
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> >>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>  >> (44° 15'  N - Elevation 1580')

You don't know what you're doing.
claudel - 26 Jul 2005 00:09 GMT
>>> URL gives :
>>>"Sorry, the Web page address for this
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
> >> (44=B0 15'  N - Elevation 1580')

You need the <> when you post the URL, but you also need to not
include the <> when you paste the URL into your browser.

Not all newsreaders will interpret URLs as what they actually are.

The <> tells the news software to include everything inside as
as single line. Some readers insert a line break at a predetermined
character count and break the URL into pieces...

You'd think that the browser software would understand the <>'s
but they don't...

I'd still like to see the pix...

Claude
---MIKE--- - 26 Jul 2005 17:53 GMT
<http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a746150&pq907933&Sequence=0&res=high>

Seee if this works.

                 ---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44° 15'  N - Elevation 1580')
---MIKE--- - 26 Jul 2005 17:55 GMT
Send me your email address and I will send the picture that way.

                 ---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44° 15'  N - Elevation 1580')
claudel - 26 Jul 2005 18:15 GMT
>Send me your email address and I will send the picture that way.
>
>                  ---MIKE---
>>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
> >> (44=B0 15'  N - Elevation 1580')

It's OK.

One of the links somebody else posted loaded fine for me.

Nice Cat.

Could be Bubba's littermate...

http://www.sonic.net/~claudel/bubba/bubba.html

Claude
---MIKE--- - 25 Jul 2005 23:31 GMT
Here is the photo of Tiger.  I just pulled the URL from the album.  I
hope it works

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a746150&pq907933&Sequence=0&res=high

                 ---MIKE---
>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
>> (44° 15'  N - Elevation 1580')
CatNipped - 25 Jul 2005 23:46 GMT
> "---MIKE---" <twinmountain@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:11037-42E56842-45@storefull-
> 3254.bay.webtv.net...
> Here is the photo of Tiger.  I just pulled the URL from the album.  I
> hope it works

http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/View?u=1777604&a=13746150&p=71907933&Sequence=0&
res=high


Wow, except for the color eyes, he looks just like my Bandit:

http://www.possibleplaces.com/CatNipped/Bandit.asp

Hugs,

CatNipped
claudel - 26 Jul 2005 00:21 GMT
>> "---MIKE---" <twinmountain@webtv.net> wrote in message
>news:11037-42E56842-45@storefull-
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>CatNipped

This one worked for me.

He could be a litter mate of Bubba's

http://www.sonic.net/~claudel/bubba/bubba.html

has a few pix...

Bandit has great eyes...

Claude
CatNipped - 26 Jul 2005 00:31 GMT
> >> "---MIKE---" <twinmountain@webtv.net> wrote in message
> >news:11037-42E56842-45@storefull-
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> Bandit has great eyes...

She says thanks, but she already knew that!  ;>

Hugs,

CatNipped

> Claude
claudel - 26 Jul 2005 00:12 GMT
>Here is the photo of Tiger.  I just pulled the URL from the album.  I
>hope it works
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
> >> (44=B0 15'  N - Elevation 1580')

Still no go.

Is this a public album?

It seems as if it wants me to log in...

Claude
Brandy  Alexandre - 26 Jul 2005 01:25 GMT
---MIKE--- <twinmountain@webtv.net> wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

> Here is the photo of Tiger.  I just pulled the URL from the album.
>  I hope it works
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>>>In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
> >> (44° 15'  N - Elevation 1580')

Here's a tip.  When you have a URL that any newreader might possibly
break, go to http://tinyurl.com and get a smaller one.

Signature

Brandy  Alexandre®
http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx
Well, would you?

sriddles@aol.com - 25 Jul 2005 00:49 GMT
> Amber hates to be picked up and won't sit on my lap.  She will sit next
> to me and loves to be petted.  Tiger (possible Maine Coon) likes to sit
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>                   ---MIKE---

Hi Mike--Have you ever posted a pic of Tiger? Can't remember if I've
seen him or not.

Sherry
Richard Evans - 24 Jul 2005 19:42 GMT
>What have you tried so far and what do they let you do?

Fosters come into my home office and stay there until they are
comfortable with their new surroundings. That means being comfortable
with me. For the most part, it's simply being in close contact with
them for about 18 hours a day that brings them around. When that
doesn't work, I withhold food and make them come to me to be fed. If
they'd rather starve than be touched, I figure they have pretty strong
feelings that deserve to be respected.

Over a period of years, I've seen hundreds of cats and only perhaps a
half dozen that simply refused contact.
Alison - 24 Jul 2005 22:05 GMT
> > > Fosters come into my home office and stay there until they are
> comfortable with their new surroundings. That means being comfortable
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Over a period of years, I've seen hundreds of cats and only perhaps a
> half dozen that simply refused contact.>>>

   I expect this helps to overcome their fear and once they have
overcome
they realise its nice to be petted and sit on your lap.
For those that aren't fearful and they just dont want to be petted, as
you have
found, it's much more difficult.
 If they aren't fearful of hands , I'd start by tickling or rubbing
their chins and move onto
the side of their faces, I'd keep the sessions very short and build up
the time. You could put something that smells nice to them on your
fingers. I got valerian compound on my fingers once and my cat rubbed
my hand like crazy. Do they let you brush them?
  If they respond to treats, you could try using a clicker, if you've
not used one before, Karen Pryor's Clicker Training Your Cat ,
explains it all.
Alison
Richard Evans - 24 Jul 2005 19:45 GMT
I wonder if anti-social cats would improve if they were in an
environment with no social contacts other than human.

In my house, we currently have eight cats, two dogs, and two humans.
Foster cats have a ready-made social order to fall into. I wonder if
depriving them of part of that order (the other critters) would move
them to rely more heavily on the humans.
Wendy - 26 Jul 2005 11:56 GMT
>I wonder if anti-social cats would improve if they were in an
> environment with no social contacts other than human.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> depriving them of part of that order (the other critters) would move
> them to rely more heavily on the humans.

I had a foster last summer (Thelma) that I had to separate from her sister
(Louise) to get her to come around. She would launch herself at someone,
tooth and claw, if they as much as looked at her and got herself so upset
that she ended up with the reddest tongue I had ever seen. I crated her in a
room away from all the other cats for a week or so and by the end of the
week I could pet her and pick her up. When she was here she would lay in
certain places (like on the cat tree) when she wanted attention and if she
was anywhere else preferred to be left alone. Their mother had been hit by a
car and killed when they were small kittens and they were finally trapped
and came here when they were around 10 - 12 weeks old.

They got adopted together just this last spring, so it took a while. The
people were interested in adopting Louise but when they were filling out the
paperwork saw the girls grooming each other and didn't have the heart to
break them up. Thelma's doing ok but is still shy and wants attention on her
terms. She was adopted by some great people who accept her the way she is
and don't seem bent out of shape that she's not a lap fungus.

Good luck with your kitty.

W
Cheryl - 24 Jul 2005 23:58 GMT
> I've been doing rescue work for 8-9 years now and I've fostered
> a lot of cats. I have sort of a reputation in my group for being
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Any thoughts on what causes this, or how to fix it?

You've done a fine job! I read the rest of the thread but just
wanted to put in something of my experience with my former feral,
Bonnie. She was at least 5 months when I trapped her and started
socializing her. She was in a cage for the first 2 months because
she was so wild that I'd never see her if she had run of the house.
The cage let us get close, even if she didn't want to be. I didn't
try to touch her for a while. Just sit with her and talk to her.
After she was out and about, she came up to me. She took a liking
to my feet and would plop down on them. As long as I didn't try to
touch her, she was fine. After a while, she initiated the affection
by jumping on the couch if I was sitting and letting me pet her.
It's been over 2 years now and I still can't pick her up. There are
still new milestones all the time. I think the only time this
still-feral behavior is an issue is when it's vet time. Or if she
were to become ill and need meds.  Keep up the great job that
you're doing!

Signature

Cheryl

"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited
breath."
- W.C. Fields

 
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