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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / July 2005Struggling with decision...
I've been posting about TB and our battle with his liver disease. He i in the vet right now on IV fluids because he had a bad weekend, vomitin up to 4 times a day. I would have to syringe feed him right after h vomitted to make sure he got some food in him, then 3-4 hours later h would vomit up a little that hadn't gone through him yet. He wa looking weaker, walking very slow, kind of wobly, and he was loosin weight. The vet weighed him in at 8 pounds 9 ounces, down about pound from two weeks ago. His blood values still show elevated AL (400), ALP (300), and dramatically elevated bilirubin (15). His HCT, believe that is how they measure red cells...was at 24.8% but his whit cell count was extremely high at 52! This is very concerning, the ve doesn't know if this is due to infection or ongoing inflammation, bu he has been on antibiotics for a long time. I still don't know wha all these figures really mean, but she is pushing an explorator surgery to see what this expanding fluid structure is underneath hi galbladder. She also wants to get biopsy's of liver, galbladder, an maybe others. I am scared to death to put TB through surgery at hi age of 15 and weakend state. I need to tell her today if I want t proceed with the surgery or not. They will have to do a clot test an check other levels, but I am so concerned about the possibility of hi dying during the procedure. I am also concerned about his recover process...I don't know, what if I put out all this money for th surgery, he makes it, they find out what exactly he has, and treat it OR, he dies during procedure, OR he never fully recovers and has eve worse final days because of the surgery. I am stressed out beyon anything I have ever experienced, I love this cat as much as I love m mom or dad. What should I do -- NateB323 > I've been posting about TB and our battle with his liver disease. He i in > the vet right now on IV fluids because he had a bad weekend, vomitin up to 4 > times a day. I would have to syringe feed him right after h vomitted to make > sure he got some food in him, then 3-4 hours later h would vomit up a little > that hadn't gone through him yet. He wa looking weaker, walking very slow, > kind of wobly, and he was loosin weight. The vet weighed him in at 8 pounds > 9 ounces, down about pound from two weeks ago. His blood values still show > elevated AL (400), ALP (300), and dramatically elevated bilirubin (15). His > HCT, believe that is how they measure red cells...was at 24.8% but his > whit cell count was extremely high at 52! This is very concerning, the > ve doesn't know if this is due to infection or ongoing inflammation, bu he > has been on antibiotics for a long time. I still don't know wha all these > figures really mean, but she is pushing an explorator surgery to see what > this expanding fluid structure is underneath hi galbladder. She also wants > to get biopsy's of liver, galbladder, an maybe others. I am scared to death > to put TB through surgery at hi age of 15 and weakend state. I need to tell > her today if I want t proceed with the surgery or not. They will have to do > a clot test an check other levels, but I am so concerned about the > possibility of hi dying during the procedure. I am also concerned about his > recover process...I don't know, what if I put out all this money for > th surgery, he makes it, they find out what exactly he has, and treat it OR, > he dies during procedure, OR he never fully recovers and has eve worse final > days because of the surgery. I am stressed out beyon anything I have ever > experienced, I love this cat as much as I love m mom or dad. What should I > do -- NateB323 I'm so sorry the kitty is so sick. Only you know how your cat is taking all the treatment. I know you love him deeply and you have to try and think from the angle of what is best for him. And really only you can know that. My thoughts are with you. I would ask the vet what she would do if it were her cat. If the exploratory surgery does not have a good probability of helping him, I would personally not put him through it. Gail > I've been posting about TB and our battle with his liver disease. He is > in the vet right now on IV fluids because he had a bad weekend, vomiting [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > anything I have ever experienced, I love this cat as much as I love my > mom or dad. What should I do? > I've been posting about TB and our battle with his liver disease. He is > in the vet right now on IV fluids because he had a bad weekend, vomiting [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > anything I have ever experienced, I love this cat as much as I love my > mom or dad. What should I do? God, Nate, what a horrible decision to have to make. I'm not sure anyone can tell you what to do. I think if I were in your shoes I would trust my instincts. No matter what, you have a tough time ahead. I'm so sorry. > I've been posting about TB and our battle with his liver disease. He is > in the vet right now on IV fluids because he had a bad weekend, vomiting [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > age of 15 and weakend state. I need to tell her today if I want to > proceed with the surgery or not. No way would I put a 15 year old cat that is that sick through surgery. No way. In fact I am a little bit appalled that the vet would even suggest it - seems like a money-seeker to me. Some of the best advice I have ever received as a pet guardian came from my own vet when my beloved dog Tosh was diagnosed with an inoperable tumor: "Don't let her suffer." Those words will always ring true to me, always. Best luck on your decision. I know it is a tough one. -L. You must be having an awful time. Unfortunately you need to put the cat first and not your own feelings. 15 is an excellent age for a cat to have reached. If your cat comes through the treatment what sort of QUALITY of life do you envisage afterwards? FULL recovery? Partial recovery with lots of constraints? Less? Perhaps considering this aspect alone might help you come to a decision. Quality of life is what really counts. chas > You must be having an awful time. Unfortunately you need to put the cat > first and not your own feelings. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > chas Excellent advice. The main thing to consider is - is the surgery worth it to the cat? No matter what you do, be prepared to second guess yourself. I did this for about a year after I made the decision to put her to sleep. I can finally look back and say with certainty that I did the right thing. Do take care, I know this is a hard time. -Kelly > I've been posting about TB and our battle with his liver disease. He is > in the vet right now on IV fluids because he had a bad weekend, vomiting [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > anything I have ever experienced, I love this cat as much as I love my mom > or dad. What should I do? We are purring that whatever you do will bring you peace. I had this same decision to make but chose nature's way.. You are going to feel terrible whatever you do, so don't let your friend suffer anymore. Best wishes for a peaceful end. MLB > I've been posting about TB and our battle with his liver disease. He is > in the vet right now on IV fluids because he had a bad weekend, vomiting [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > anything I have ever experienced, I love this cat as much as I love my > mom or dad. What should I do? I can't help with this decision, but to counter what one idiot* (cough*Lyn*cough) posted - my 15-year-old went through *THREE* surgeries within three weeks and she did just fine. *This particular idiot told another idiot that he was right to return his cat to a kill shelter because of a chest cold. She also said that you shouldn't adopt a handicapped cat and it is better to put them to sleep and adopt a healthy cat. The best advice I can give is listen to your vet, who knows your cat, and don't heed bad advice from crazies on the internet. Hugs, CatNipped > > I've been posting about TB and our battle with his liver disease. He is > > in the vet right now on IV fluids because he had a bad weekend, vomiting [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > shouldn't adopt a handicapped cat and it is better to put them to sleep and > adopt a healthy cat. This is the source of my intense dislike of Lyn. Cats are just throwaways-- unless they are hers, of course. >> I've been posting about TB and our battle with his liver disease. He is >> in the vet right now on IV fluids because he had a bad weekend, vomiting [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > CatNipped Hey ... YOU are one of those "crazies" on the Internet so your advice is equally tainted. > >> I've been posting about TB and our battle with his liver disease. He is > >> in the vet right now on IV fluids because he had a bad weekend, vomiting [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > Hey ... YOU are one of those "crazies" on the Internet so your advice is > equally tainted. WTG Philip, catchem not looking, never having done nothing to you and stickem! Is this what we have resorted to? . She also said that you > shouldn't adopt a handicapped cat and it is better to put them to sleep and > adopt a healthy cat. Sorry for veering off topic but these days all I adopt is sick cats. I figure anyone can adopt a healthy cat, but who's going to take the matted up long hairs, the one with the paralilized valve in his wind pipe, and all the FIV strays? ron my vet's best customer > The best advice I can give is listen to your vet, who knows your cat, and > don't heed bad advice from crazies on the internet. > > Hugs, > > CatNipped > . She also said that you > > shouldn't adopt a handicapped cat and it is better to put them to sleep [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > long hairs, the one with the paralilized valve in his wind pipe, and all the > FIV strays? Bless you, Ron. > I can't help with this decision, but to counter what one idiot* > (cough*Lyn*cough) posted - my 15-year-old went through *THREE* surgeries > within three weeks and she did just fine. READ FOR COMPREHENSION, Dearie, read for comprehension. What part of "No way would I put a 15 year old cat that is that sick through surgery," do you NOT understand? Was your cat wasted away? Was your cat so sick she could not stand/walk? Was your cat's blodwork all out of whack? No? Well, then, it is not the same situation at all, is it? > *This particular idiot told another idiot that he was right to return his > cat to a kill shelter because of a chest cold. I said he did exactly what he was supposed to do when he felt unable to help the cat further - per the shelter's policy. Anyone who works at a shelter will tell you the same thing. The reasons are multi-fold not all of which have to do with the cat, but of course you are much too wrapped up in histronics to realize this. >She also said that you > shouldn't adopt a handicapped cat and it is better to put them to sleep and > adopt a healthy cat. Again, read for comprehension. When you adopt a cat you sentance another cat to death. I said in no way could *I* sentance a healthy cat to death when a sick cat or a cat with behavioral problems lived. No way. I also said bless anyone who does adopt them, but "a cat is a cat" so it does not matter *which* cat you adopt - another will die. I would much rather the ill cat die than a healthy cat. I also said that from a shelter's point of view, *they* would much rather place a health cat because a healthy cat is much more likely to remain in the placement and not be returned. For every cat returned, it or another dies. So if you adopt a sick cat and return it, you cause the death of *two* cats, not one. But of course I explained this all already ONCE, but you didn't comprehend it the first time. You, of course, think you know better. YOU, "Ms. self-admitted ADHD", who has absolutley *no* experience in animal welfare, no experience working for a shelter nor in veterinary medicine. I, OTOH, have done all three - having worked in animal welfare, in shelters, and rescue for 17+ years, and as a vet tech for a high-volume feline-specialty hospital. But of course, *you* know better. <shaking head> > The best advice I can give is listen to your vet, who knows your cat, and > don't heed bad advice from crazies on the internet. Yes, especially "crazies" with an incessant need for attention, toting curling irons. -L. Hi Nate, I can tell you that I was scared to death to put my Frit through a teeth cleaning and liver needle biopsy last year, and he mad it through both just fine. He was 18 at the time, was throwing u stomach acid daily, and his appetite was way off. Of course his diseas sounds a bit different, but these days they can monitor them s carefully and practically do miracles. The gas they use to knock the out is very easily cleared out of the lungs, and if he has a stron heart, you shouldn't have any problem. When they shut off the gas, the wake right up. It could be that they find a blockage in those bile ducts and can clea it right out, or dissolve it. Also the fluids they give balance them right out and they can feel LOT better within a short time of being on a drip. They do these things all the time. Unless your vet is a total unethica moron, they wouldn't advise something so risky. No vet wants to lose cat during surgery. Go with your gut. What does your intuition tell you? The results of Fritz's biopsy were inconclusive, mild live inflammation, and I would not permit a more invasive wedge biopsy whic had higher risk of complications and infections, so we may never kno exactly what's wrong with him, but it's probably cholagiohepatiti brought on by an immune system thats attacking his own tissues. There's no real cure for that, but if TB has a blockage I bet that' fixable. Many purrs and mojo to you in this most difficult of times...believ me, I know. madsongstress NateB323 Wrote: > I've been posting about TB and our battle with his liver disease. He i > in the vet right now on IV fluids because he had a bad weekend, vomitin [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > anything I have ever experienced, I love this cat as much as I love m > mom or dad. What should I do -- madsongstress > I've been posting about TB and our battle with his liver disease. He is > in the vet right now on IV fluids because he had a bad weekend, vomiting [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > anything I have ever experienced, I love this cat as much as I love my > mom or dad. What should I do? Very tough decision. I guess a lot depends on how much credibility you give your vet. Her reasons for recommending surgery are legitimate and credible. However, do you believe in your heart that she's recommending surgery because she honestly believes it may lead to a cure and she believes her chances of surviving surgery are reasonably good, or do you believe her motives are purely financial? What do your instincts tell you? Her age should not be the determining factor- 15 isn't very old for a cat. We had older cats pull through much more serious surgeries. I assume (hope) your vet would use a gas anesthetic agent (Isoflurane) and a rapid acting induction agent (propofol). This combination minimizes anesthetic risks *significantly* and is usually ideal for older cats. However, its not an ideal combination if your vet is not experienced and comfortable with inhalant anesthetics. If I were in the same situation, I'd opt for surgery because I'd trust my vet if she has a bile duct obstruction she has no chance without surgery. But that's me. Best of luck, Phil |
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