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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / July 2005

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Dmitri has CRF

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Juls - 14 Jul 2005 03:24 GMT
Hi all. I was kind of expecting this, just because of his age. He's 16,
and in otherwise great health. A tad of arthritis and his ongoing anal
gland thing, but otherwise, he's good. I've never had a cat live this
long, so in one sense, I'm so blessed. Plus, he's just such a wonderful
guy, so happy, so loving.

I'm devastated for myself, but more so for Jack. They adore one another
so.

The good news is that it's caught fairly early. He has no symptoms.
He's lost two pounds, but that's over a year or so, and at 14 and a
half pounds, he's not skinny; he still has his dewlap.

His appetite is as voracious as always. For years, I've said he has a
hollow leg, and he would eat until he pops if I'd oblige. He's always
been a heavy drinker as well, and that hasn't changed. (In fact, always
drank so much water that I've worried he had diabetes, but his blood
sugar is always perfect) So appetite is good, drinking is good, he's
happy, always smiling and purring.

All of his levels of blood sugar, potassium and so on are all fine.
(His vet thought he might be hyperthyroid, but he's not)

Here are his numbers:

creatine: 3.5
BUN: 55

His vet says we've caught it fairly early, and we discussed down the
road doing the fluid IVs. But because right now he's not dehydrated, he
doesn't need that. In fact, her only prescription is a special diet
(Science KD). No meds or anything, and then in two months, check his
blood levels again.

I did ask her for a timeline, and she said she's seen cats with similar
numbers go in six months, or live 2 or 3 more years with decent quality
of life.

So I'm taking the optimistic outlook and if Jack and I have two more
years with sweet Dmitri, we're good. After all, he's 16, and even that
many years of bliss is a blessing.

I'm here for two things....a few hugs would be great. I know so many
people here have loved the Dmitri and Jack story, and I've been lucky
enough to live it. I've always known it would come to an end, so it's
hard.

The other thing is information. I've read a number of sites this
evening and I realize it's all very individual. I'm wondering what your
impressions of the numbers might be, your thoughts on the food (I'm not
trying to second guess my vet, just wanting to be as informed as I
can...I adore this vet and she's been good to Dmitri for many years),
and just things I can be doing to make his quality of life as good as
possible, and of course to try and prolong it.

Other than these bad numbers, Dmitri is pretty darned good. He and Jack
remain joined at the hip. Dmitri had an anal squeeze today, and Jack
licked his rear when he got home. Very lovingly. (I'm not kidding,
these guys LOVE one another!)

Yesterday was Jack's day at the vet. He had a tooth pulled (canine, it
was bad, but he feels better today) and he had a slight eye infection.
So he's getting drops for his eye and happy to have that bad tooth out.
When we got home from the vet, Dmitri came running to him and bathed
him and Jack told him all about it.

The vet Jack had yesterday had never seen him before (it's a clinic
with several vets) and so I told him Jack's story, how Jack started out
as a feral. He said Jack was such a sweetie and so polite during
everything, that it was a credit to Catharine and me on how wonderful
he is. Then later I was searching for his records and there was a note
in his envelope. A note I'd never seen before. From Catharine to Beth,
thanking her for fostering him.

I barely knew her, but not a day goes by that I don't look at Jack and
think of her. I really hope she's somewhere she can see how happy he
is. For a cat who used to kind of hide a lot, he's turned into a major
lap cat.

I love them both so much.

Juls

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Candace - 14 Jul 2005 04:20 GMT
> I barely knew her, but not a day goes by that I don't look at Jack and
> think of her. I really hope she's somewhere she can see how happy he
> is. For a cat who used to kind of hide a lot, he's turned into a major
> lap cat.

Hi, Juls!  I'm one of the lovers of the Dmitri and Jack story and have
followed it from the beginning.  I'm sorry Dmitri has CRF.  Those
numbers don't sound very bad to me.  I assume they did a urine specific
gravity also.  Apparently, you need that along with the bloodwork to
get a definitive diagnosis.  But CRF is very common in older cats.  My
Cory had it and it was also caught early.  He lived over 2 years with
it and didn't need fluids until the end.  He did quite well.  That's
not really what he died of.  Sometimes his numbers were normal, they
would go up and down but just because they are normal doesn't mean they
don't have CRF anymore...it's incurable, I believe.

Did you look at Helen's website, the best for CRF?

www.felinecrf.org

It's great with all sorts of tips.

At Phil P.'s suggestion, I put Cory on Hill's g/d for his dry food (he
also ate canned food).  He wouldn't eat k/d.  But Phil said when the
numbers are still moderate like Cory's were and Dmitri's are that g/d
is better for them than k/d.  I'm afraid I don't recall the reasons
exactly (Cory died 1.5 years ago).  He drank a lot of water but he had
been drinking a lot for years.

He had a good last 2 years and only occasionally didn't feel well.  He
did get bladder infections often but finally we put him on low dose
antibiotics daily and that fixed it.

It's sad but I'm sure with a little diet change and keeping on top of
it that Dmitri can make it to 18 easily (that's how old Cory was) and
beyond maybe.  Don't get too upset yet because he could have a lot more
quality time.  There is someone who posts here occasionally who has a
cat who lived for over 5 years with it, I think.

I'm sure some others will chime in...Give both boys a kiss for me and
cyber hugs to you, too, but please try not to worry.

Candace
Juls - 14 Jul 2005 06:08 GMT
Hi Candace! It's nice to be back here among friends. I've missed
everyone so much, but had some stuff to deal with that took up a lot of
my time.

Thank you for your kind words and information. I'm sure Dmitri did not
have the urine test, as I didn't take in a sample. I'm to stop by the
vet's tomorrow and pick up some food, and I'll ask about that. I also
have read a lot about anemia, but I'm assuming she tested the blood for
that as well. It was a full panel plus T4 for thyroid.

Your message was so soothing and hopeful. Thank you so much. :)

The bookends kiss you back. ***

Juls

> > I barely knew her, but not a day goes by that I don't look at Jack and
> > think of her. I really hope she's somewhere she can see how happy he
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> Candace

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clfr@adelphia.net - 15 Jul 2005 04:25 GMT
> > I barely knew her, but not a day goes by that I don't look at Jack and
> > think of her. I really hope she's somewhere she can see how happy he
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Hi, Juls!  I'm one of the lovers of the Dmitri and Jack story and have
> followed it from the beginning.  I'm sorry Dmitri has CRF.

Same here, on both counts. I remember Jack's story, & the pics you
posted of him & Dmitri, & how extremely well they got on together, so
quickly. CRF is very common in older cats; my first 2 cats both
developed CRF when older (in their mid-to-late teens).

Those
> numbers don't sound very bad to me.  I assume they did a urine specific
> gravity also.  Apparently, you need that along with the bloodwork to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> would go up and down but just because they are normal doesn't mean they
> don't have CRF anymore...it's incurable, I believe.

True - CRF's not curable - by the time it's caught, something like 70%
of the renal function has already been permanently lost, but can often
be managed quite well for a long time.  I know of one cat (of a person
on a completely different ng - not even cat or pet-related) who lived
w/ CRF for 5 years! Granted, that's one end of the spectrum, but
still... it's very possible that Dmitri will be around for quite a
while yet.

When the vet thinks it's time to begin sub-Q treatments, s/he can teach
you how to do them at home.

> Did you look at Helen's website, the best for CRF?
>
> www.felinecrf.org
>
> It's great with all sorts of tips.

I second this recommendation - her site has tons of info, & is
extremely useful.  Helen wrote it with the intention of making it
user-friendly & IMO, she succeeded.

Cathy
Juls - 17 Jul 2005 03:05 GMT
> When the vet thinks it's time to begin sub-Q treatments, s/he can teach
> you how to do them at home.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> extremely useful.  Helen wrote it with the intention of making it
> user-friendly & IMO, she succeeded.

Thanks Cathy! I've been spending a bit of time on this site and it's
fantastic.

In reading a bit about the sub q treatments, it sounds like I could do
this. I'm pretty squeamish about stuff like that, but this sounds like
I can do it. He's not at that point yet, but it sounds like it will be
necessary down the road.

The good news is that Mr. I Like Shrimp Only actually likes the chicken
flavor KD Diet. It's Hills, not Science Diet as I reported earlier. I
guess I misheard the dr.

And Jack is going to be eating that too. (He'll have whatever Dmitri
has, thank you.) The vet says it's actually good for his kidneys too.

Does anyone have an opinion if I should supplement Jack's diet at all?
He's about 8 I think and pretty healthy. He's a big boy (16.5, but he's
BIG BONED, people!)

The best news is that Dmitri's feeling very frisky (thanks to his anal
gland treatment...always makes him feel better). He and Jack were
wrestling earlier over fresh catnip. They do look like bear cubs when
they wrestle.

And then it's all followed by thirty minutes of grooming one another.
Have I mentioned I'm crazy about these guys? LOL.

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blkcatgal - 14 Jul 2005 05:07 GMT
I currently am going through the same thing with my 16 year old cat.  While
his BUN and creatinine numbers are still in the normal range, a check of his
urine found that he wasn't concentrating it enough....thus, according to my
vet, his kidneys are starting to fail.  She prescribed K/D and nothing else
at this point.  My cat, like Dmitri, seems fairly healthy right now.  You
may want to join the CRF support group at groups.yahoo.com.  One thing I did
start doing is adding a vitamin B supplement to my cat's diet.  Also, there
are other foods that are low in phosphorous (which is important to CRF
kitties) that you can feed your cat.

My previous cat was discovered to have CRF (his "numbers" were very low) at
age 13.  He lived to be 20+ and didn't need fluids until the last 2 years of
his life.  And it wasn't CRF that caused his death, but cancer.

So, with good treatment and lots of love, Dmitri can be around for a long
time.  And  you've got a hug from me.

Sue
> Hi all. I was kind of expecting this, just because of his age. He's 16,
> and in otherwise great health. A tad of arthritis and his ongoing anal
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
>
> Juls
Juls - 14 Jul 2005 06:13 GMT
Sue, thank you! It's so good to hear such positive stories. Amazing
about your cat that lived to 20! Reading this gives me so much hope
that this doesn't have to be an ending that's coming soon.

I'll definitely check out the yahoo group...see you there! I'd like to
learn as much as I can. There's a lot of info out there, but I'm kind
of overwhelmed by it all.

> I currently am going through the same thing with my 16 year old cat.  While
> his BUN and creatinine numbers are still in the normal range, a check of his
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> So, with good treatment and lots of love, Dmitri can be around for a long
> time.  And  you've got a hug from me.

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Karen - 14 Jul 2005 05:23 GMT
Juls! I'm really sorry to hear this however, it really does sound like you
have caught it very early which is GREAT! Please let us know how he does.
Juls - 14 Jul 2005 06:18 GMT
> Juls! I'm really sorry to hear this however, it really does sound like you
> have caught it very early which is GREAT! Please let us know how he does.

It does sound like it's caught early, and I really have Megan to thank
for that. She pestered me to get the blood work done, even though he
wasn't showing symptoms.

I've learned more from everyone in this newsgroup in a few years than I
would have imagined.

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Brandy  Alexandre - 15 Jul 2005 04:43 GMT
Juls <checksig@none.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:

> His vet says we've caught it fairly early, and we discussed down
> the road doing the fluid IVs. But because right now he's not
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> similar numbers go in six months, or live 2 or 3 more years with
> decent quality of life.

Kami is going on 4 years with CRF and we still aren't at the regular
fluids stage.  I learned to do them recently because of a bit of a
crisis and we were going to travel, but we go months in between.  She
was also caught early and changing her diet made a world of difference.

I think she's getting ready for a dose of fluids, so I need to pick up
a new bag at the vet.  She's been really thristy (love that PetMate
fountain) and barfed two days and wouldn't eat.  I gave her a quarter
Pepcid last night and it worked.  Or, she was having sympathy issues
because she knew I was having surgery today (very, very minor).  She
started at me all worried the couple of days and I know it's not so
much about me as it is about me not being here to dish up the food.  ;)

But I digress.

I think if you take the condition seriously and learn to read the
signs, you can double or even triple the life expectancy.  I talked to
my vet about it and she promised not to let me just "hang on" to Kami.  
When her quality of life is seriously diminished, I'll printout the
MapQuest to the bridge and tell her I'll meet her there.

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Brandy  Alexandre®
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Well, would you?

Juls - 17 Jul 2005 03:10 GMT
Good info here, Brandy. Thank you. It's also continuing reassurance for
me to hear these stories that it's not an immediate death sentence.

I'm feeling so MUCH better now about it all. And so very dedicated to
doing what I need to do to keep his quality of life up for as long as
possible.

I hope your surgery is healing. Last time I had surgery (many years
ago), Dmitri brought me a bird. My mother kept sweeping the bird out of
the house, and Dmitri would sneak back in with it. Finally, he ripped
out the screen to my bedroom and placed it on my chest as I lay in bed.

It's always been our little secret. ;-)

(I was sorry for the bird, but he was SO proud)

> Juls <checksig@none.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
>
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> When her quality of life is seriously diminished, I'll printout the
> MapQuest to the bridge and tell her I'll meet her there.

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