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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / August 2005Cat Pee Problems !!!HELP ME!!!
My cat is bonkers!!! All my husband and I have ever done was try to love him and give him tons of attention. I don't work, so I am at home and play with him all day. His litter box is always clean... he always has fresh food and water... and we give him kitty snacks all the time. He is so spoiled! We treat him better than we treat people! When we got him as a kitten he was very scared of people... and anything that moved or made noise. We had to keep him in master bathroom... and then gradually move him into our bedroom... and then into the living room... and so on. We did this to make him feel more comfortable with his new surroundings. This process took much longer than it does for most cats. He spent a week and a half in the bathroom before he felt comfortable enough to go into our bedroom! He is horrified of being picked up and doesn't like being touched much. The only kind of human interaction he really loves is getting played with. When we reach out to pet his back he squats down as low as he can to avoid touching us and runs away. As he got older he began to pee on our papa-san, which is round couch/chair that we hang out on in the office. At first we thought he might be confused since his litter box is round... not the case. We eventually got so fed up of lifting that heavy cushion and cleaning it every few days that we took it out of the office (where his litter box is located). At this point he was in kitty "time-out". We locked him in the guest bathroom for a day with his litter box and food/h20... hoping he would get the point not to pee. Unfortunately, he didn't take his punishment too well. Instead of peeing on the papa-san... he went pee on the foot of our bed... while we were sleeping in it!!! Once again... he went to kitty "time out". Our mattress in brand-new and costs a ton of money... it's a tempurpedic bed and doesn't allow for easy cleaning either. My husband lost it when the cat went pee on the bed. He wanted to give it away because he was so sick of cleaning cat pee all the time. I suggested that we try and work things out with him by getting another cat to occupy him time with. We did so, and he seemed to be enjoying the new friend. Since getting him a friend, we got him neutered, at 5 months of age. Things were going great... until recently. We have been catching him going pee in the sinks (which was happening before the new cat)... and two days ago he went poop in the corner of the bathroom. Once again... he was sent to kitty "time out" overnight. He was well behaved yesterday when he got out of "time out"... but my husband and I thought it would be a good idea if he slept outside of our room last night... in fear of what he might do when we are sleeping. Sure enough this morning when I let him in the room... he went pee on the foot of the bed. To be honest, I've had just about enough of the games this cat is playing with us. My husband wants him gone. I just don't want to let him go without knowing that this problem is irreversible. PLEASE HELP!!! P.S. This morning when I caught him peeing on the bed I picked him up and took him to "time out" ... AGAIN... when doing so I didn't realize that he was still peeing!!! The pee went all over my feet, legs, and body... more importantly... my nice couches... and all over about twenty feet of carpet!!! ... Not to mention all over the guest bathroom! What should I do to clean this mess? I cleaned the bathroom with pine-sol and Nature's Miracle. I sprayed Nature's Miracle all over the couches and on the floors. However, the other cat can still smell the pee. She gets that weird face cats make when they smell pee and stuff. What can I do to help this??? I'm at this cat's mercy!!! PLEASE HELP!!! Oh! One last thing... This behavioral issue is not due to a UTI! > P.S. This morning when I caught him peeing on the bed I picked him up > and took him to "time out" ... AGAIN... when doing so I didn't [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and stuff. What can I do to help this??? I'm at this cat's > mercy!!! PLEASE HELP!!! Please take your cat to a vet right away to rule out a physical cause, if you have not already done so. This cat isn't declawed by any chance, is he? > Please take your cat to a vet right away to rule out a physical cause, > if you have not already done so. This cat isn't declawed by any > chance, is he? Yes please! Take him to a vet. Innappropriate urination is an indication of a urinary tract infection, among other things. -Kelly Thank you for the posts... kellyh & paws for thought. =) I didn't indicate so in my first message... but I posted one immediately after saying that a UTI or any other physical cause is not a factor. He has been to the vet several times and he said that he was perfectly healthy. There is something seriously wrong with him. He doesn't seem to like "time out" ... and to me it sounds like a reasonable punishment. ??? He seems to "lash out" at us after he gets in trouble. I'm very concerned about his behavioral problems. They are becoming very costly and time consuming. I completely understand the fact that cats are like kids, but come on... this cat is like dealing with an emotionally charged teenage girl!!! The cat also likes to destroy toilet paper, paper towels, and anything in the trashcan.... Not to mention any kind of wire or paper lying around the house... oh... don't let me forget about all the plants he destroys and the clothing he chews up... I don't know what to do... My husband wants to give him away?!?!? He is a Bengal cat... if that helps any of you experts. Oh... PAWSFORTHOUGHT... he is declawed... and come to mention it... most of the major problems have taken place since then. Why do you ask? You seem concerned... I am now too. The vet recommended it for his breed and personality. I always trust professionals... Should I not? He said there were no drawbacks and/or side effects. ??? > He is a Bengal cat... if that helps any of you experts. Oh... > PAWSFORTHOUGHT... he is declawed... and come to mention it... most of > the major problems have taken place since then. Why do you ask? You > seem concerned... I am now too. The vet recommended it for his breed > and personality. I always trust professionals... Should I not? He > said there were no drawbacks and/or side effects. ??? If this is the case...that the problems started after the declaw, it is likely that something about the litterbox is painful for him. He associates the box with pain and therefore wont use it. I find it hard to believe that a VET recommended a declaw!!! There are side effects and they are behavioral. You may also wish to have him back to a *different* vet to check kitty's paws to make sure that he isnt suffering from a bad declaw job. It can happen and cause the cats a lot of pain. The weird thing is that he does USE the litter box. He just seems to get moody for one reason or another sometimes. I feel like he is attacking my personal space on purpose. He knows what he is doing is bad because he runs away afterwards. ??? It just seems like he is trying to get my attention... ??? Yes. A vet recommended it. When I brought him in as a kitten he said "Oh. A Bengal?" ... "Have you thought of having him declawed?" ... "Because most people can't handle that breed of cat... and those who do usually get them declawed to save their furniture and their skin." I asked about the side effects, like I would ask for myself... and he said there were no side effects. In fact, he said that his two cats were declawed... and members of his staff who were cat owners had their cats declawed as well. I swear... or else I would have never done it. I feel horrible. I'm going to make an appointment at another vet to check out the kitty paws. I really hope he was not "butchered" or something. I feel so bad. I hope he is not in pain. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. What are the side effects of a bad declaw? ... Or a declaw in general? > The weird thing is that he does USE the litter box. He just seems to > get moody for one reason or another sometimes. I feel like he is > attacking my personal space on purpose. He knows what he is doing is > bad because he runs away afterwards. ??? It just seems like he is > trying to get my attention... ??? I know it can seem like that but I doubt it's the case. He is doing it because something is making him unhappy. That is my guess. I know others will chime in. > Yes. A vet recommended it. When I brought him in as a kitten he said > "Oh. A Bengal?" ... "Have you thought of having him declawed?" ... [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cats declawed as well. I swear... or else I would have never done it. > I feel horrible. I think you learned something important here. You really *cant* trust the "professionals"...at least not blindly. Nowadays, with the availability of the 'net, it is SO easy to research things in advance!! > I'm going to make an appointment at another vet to check out the > kitty paws. I really hope he was not "butchered" or something. I > feel so bad. I hope he is not in pain. Thank you for bringing this to > my attention. > > What are the side effects of a bad declaw? ... Or a declaw in general? Declawing can cause lots of behavior problems. Some declawed cats become biters. Many have litter box problems. It can cause pain in their paws and legs...arthritic pain later in life. By the way, don't believe me just because I say so. I learned most of that from being on this newsgroup. There are some sites you can check out like stopdeclaw.com. They are intended to educate people about declawing since so many people in the US are ignorant. It is somewhat accepted here, yet illegal and considered inhumane in many countries world-wide. In terms of correcting the behavior...you might consider trying some different types of litter...or even just some shredded newspaper. Perhaps the type of litter you currently use is irritating his possibly sore paws. Also, do you have more than one litter box available? Sometimes they like to pee in one and poop in the other. Good luck, Pam -- > jae83jae75@yahoo.com wrote: > > The weird thing is that he does USE the litter box. He just seems to > > get moody for one reason or another sometimes. I feel like he is > > attacking my personal space on purpose. He knows what he is doing is > > bad because he runs away afterwards. ??? It just seems like he is > > trying to get my attention... ??? > "Kitkat" <kitkatluna@aol.commie> wrote in message news:ognBe.2727$Ih7.1256@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com... > I know it can seem like that but I doubt it's the case. He is doing it > because something is making him unhappy. > > > Pam>>. Absolutely. To the OP : He sounds like he's a nervous, reactive cat and cats wee if they are upset and stressed. They pick places like sofas and beds because that's where your scent is stongest, he's adding his scent to yours to reassure himself and make himself feel more secure. Some cleaners have a strong scent that cats dont like and they will pee over it to replace it with their own scent. He's not likely to asscociate the punishment of time out with the fact that you don't want him to wee in those places so he is not being disobedient or deliberately doing it to annoy you. He probably finds your and your husband's reactions confusing. He is doing something that is natural to him; he doesn't understand that beds and sofas cost money that you've work hard for , they're just objects that you sit on. Time outs will just upset him and make him more likely to carry on peeing. Well done for not giving up on this cat . read this article by a behaviourist, it will give you some tips on how to deal with this problem http://www.apbc.org.uk/article10.htm Alison http://catinfolinks.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ http://doginfolinks.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/ > To the OP : He sounds like he's a nervous, reactive cat and cats wee > if they are upset and stressed. They pick places like sofas and beds > because that's where your scent is stongest, he's adding his scent to > yours to reassure himself and make himself feel more secure. Very clever! That is brilliant! Your response definitely makes sense to me. I know the declaw must be causing him pain... but I new somebody had to have an explanation like yours. I knew he was being territorial and/or marking his space. He seems very prideful and his attitude is that 'he's in charge!' hahaha... silly boy... > He's not likely to asscociate the punishment of time out with the > fact that you don't want him to wee in those places so he is not being > disobedient or deliberately doing it to annoy you. He probably finds > your and your husband's reactions confusing. > Time outs will just upset him and make him more likely to carry > on peeing. You are so right. What he is doing is instinctual. We are confusing him. Which makes perfect sense because he does seem to get more upset after "time out". No more time outs. I'll use other alternatives. Question: Do you know if 'time out' works on dogs? ... or is this just something i picked up on from my parents? Thanks for everything! I really appreciate it! I'll read the articles tonight! =) Any advice to stop this behavior besides Feliway? Alison wrote > He's not likely to asscociate the punishment of time out with the > > fact that you don't want him to wee in those places so he is not being > > disobedient or deliberately doing it to annoy you. He probably finds > > your and your husband's reactions confusing. > > Time outs will just upset him and make him more likely to carry > > on peeing.>> Jae wrote >You are so right. What he is doing is instinctual. We are confusing > him. Which makes perfect sense because he does seem to get more upset > after "time out". No more time outs. I'll use other alternatives. > Question: Do you know if 'time out' works on dogs? ... or is this just > something i picked up on from my parents?>>. It can work with cats and dogs depending on the circumstances. People need to understand how cats and dogs think and learn to be able to train them. If you go to this website http://www.ourdogs.chilly-hippo.co.uk/ and click on the Training button on the left hand side , there are descriptions of classical and operant conditioning and training terms such as positive reinforcement and positve punishment etc. Say you have a puppy that tends to play rough, you're playing with him and he nips you hard , the moment he nips you can say ouch or yelp to let him know he has hurt you and remove him from the room . You must do this *immediately * not 30 seconds or a minute or too later so he associates the biting with being removed. People call this time out but it is also a negative punishment , you are removing something pleasant from the pup so he learns if he wants to carry on playing he mustn't nip . The punishment is removing something nice. When a dog runs off from his home, if he is given time out (or any punishment ) when he returns , he will associate it with returning not the running away so time out help will teach not to come back if he runs away. Also people think the greater length of time out, the greater the punishment but he's not going to be spending all that time thinking about what he has done wrong, like a person would. Animals live in the present and we can't say for sure how time passes for them . You wrote * At this point he was in kitty "time-out". We locked him in the guest bathroom for a day with his litter box and food/h20... hoping he would get the point not to pee.* This is really retraining the cat to use the litter tray rather than teach him not to pee in another room. Show him the behaviour you want rather than the behaviour you don't want . If you catch him in the act of pee, place him gently in the litter tray . > Thanks for everything! I really appreciate it! I'll read the articles > tonight! =) Any advice to stop this behavior besides Feliway?>> You have another cat I believe, this puts great pressure on him too. Can you give me more details about your other cat? What are your cats names? Alison > http://www.ourdogs.chilly-hippo.co.uk/ Thank you. Very helpful. > This is really retraining the cat to use the litter tray rather than > teach him not to pee in another room. Show him the behaviour you want > rather than the behaviour you don't want . If you catch him in the act > of pee, place him gently in the litter tray. Can you tell I am a novice when it comes to pet training? =) I would have never figured that out had you not told me. Question... What would you recommend I do if I don't catch him in the act? > You have another cat I believe, this puts great pressure on him too. > Can you give me more details about your other cat? What are your cats > names? The troublesome one is named Brody...M. He is almost 5 months old. The other one is named Texie...F. She is almost 8 weeks old. The story with her is that her Mommy died during labor and this woman I know was taking care of four kittens 24/7... not to mention her two small children. She really needed help with them so she asked me if I could take care of one. I got her at just under 4 weeks old. My husband and I were already considering getting a cat for Brody since he demands so much attention... so we decided to help the poor little kitten out. She's our little "free kitten" from heaven. At four weeks old she never had an "accident" outside of the box...not to mention she is the sweetest thing in the world and thinks we are her parents. We knew Brody & Tex wouldn't be able to play for about a month. Texie basically slept, ate, and went to the restroom for the first two weeks we had her. It was kinda tough during feeding time for Brody because Tex needed to be bottle-fed. He wanted to know what was going on... and was jealous of the attention. So I just made up another bottle for him and dropped milk onto his tongue. Problem solved. He got soo happy after milk. =) Anyways... for the past two weeks I have been weaning Tex of the bottle. She's now drinking out of a small bowl. For the past two weeks Tex has also been entertaining Brody. The have a blast together and play games all day long. They seem to get along great. In fact, Brody seems to be a much happier cat since Tex has came into our lives. He has only had one major "accident" since we got her. In the previous weeks before we got her there were major "accidents" almost every day. Nonetheless... Would you still say that she adds more stress to his life? What goes on in the interior can often times be much different that what goes on in the exterior. =) > You wrote * At this point he was in kitty "time-out". We locked > him in the guest bathroom for a day with his litter box and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > rather than the behaviour you don't want . If you catch him in the act > of pee, place him gently in the litter tray . snip > Alison While this is much easier for a man to demonstrate, do you think a woman really should go over to the cat's litter box, squat down, and urinate in the litter box with the cat observing? >The weird thing is that he does USE the litter box. He just seems to >get moody for one reason or another sometimes. I feel like he is >attacking my personal space on purpose. He knows what he is doing is >bad because he runs away afterwards. ??? It just seems like he is >trying to get my attention... ??? Have you tried different types of litter, different boxes, and different locations? When Chase was young, I switched from my regular litter to another kind. He immediately started peeing on my bed. He did not like pellets, and I got the message loud and clear. I changed back to the other litter, and the problem was solved. On another occasion, I let the box get dirty, and he went and peed on the bed again. Got my attention very quickly. After that, he knew if he wanted the box scooped, all he had to do was go to the bed, meow, and paw. I would instantly jump up and go scoop the box. He doesn't do it much anymore, as the box is usually good. But if Jay Jay leaves a nasty, and Chase is upset, he just does that funny meow, and I go scoop it for him. He doesn't even have to go to the bed. I know that meow.  Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > Have you tried different types of litter, different boxes, and > different locations? Not yet... but I will... > When Chase was young, I switched from my regular litter to another > kind. He immediately started peeing on my bed. He did not like > pellets, and I got the message loud and clear. I changed back to the > other litter, and the problem was solved. Strange. I use the pellets in his litter. Perhaps they are a little too rough for his poor paws... =( > The weird thing is that he does USE the litter box. He just seems to > get moody for one reason or another sometimes. I feel like he is [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > What are the side effects of a bad declaw? ... Or a declaw in general? OMG!!!! Run, do not walk, away from that vet!! I can't believe it! How can a vet be so ignorant of cat behavior? Yes, Bengals are very, very active and he *needs* his claws. Taking them away just makes things worse! As others suggested, he may be in pain from the declaw. Get that checked out (at another vet!!!) pronto. Also, try a different type of litter; Swheat Scoop, World's Best, or a paper-based one. It may be that the traditional clay litter is hurting his feet. As for the other behavior, knocking things over and stuff, make sure he has LOTS of adequate climbing area and toys. Get some huge, floor to ceiling cat towers, lots of mousies to bat around, play with him frequently with those fishing pole toys. -Kelly > OMG!!!! Run, do not walk, away from that vet!! I can't believe it! How > can a vet be so ignorant of cat behavior? Yes, Bengals are very, very > active and he *needs* his claws. Taking them away just makes things worse! Yeah... That vet is a sicko... he even does it to his own cats?!?!?! He's going to be getting a very nasty letter in the mail from me soon! I made an appointment at a holistic animal clinic next week. Hopefully they can give me some *real* advice... and check his poor little paws out... For now... I'm getting a new litter box and three different types of litter and seeing which one he prefers. ... All while "cat-proofing " my home. > As for the other behavior, knocking things over and stuff, make sure he has > LOTS of adequate climbing area and toys. Get some huge, floor to ceiling > cat towers, lots of mousies to bat around, play with him frequently with > those fishing pole toys. He loves the fishing pole toys.. but destroys them in a week! He has lots of mice and balls... door hanging things... etc. I even just got him this great little toy. It stimulates his mind... which he needs. It's a box with several holes on top and on the sides... I put little toys in there and he bats at them to get him out. He completely forgot about his other toys since this one. As for the trees/towers... I was really wanting to get one last time I was at the pet store... but I decided not to. I felt like I would be rubbing it in his face that he had no claws.... Ouch. Do you think I should just go for it anyway? He probably doesn't think of it like that... right? >> OMG!!!! Run, do not walk, away from that vet!! I can't believe it! How >> can a vet be so ignorant of cat behavior? Yes, Bengals are very, very [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > had no claws.... Ouch. Do you think I should just go for it anyway? He > probably doesn't think of it like that... right? No, you won't be rubbing anything in his face. Cats love to climb, and I am sure your cat would benefit from a cat tree. Just make sure the beds are positioned in such a way that he can easily move from one bed/level to another because he won't be able "climb." MaryL A vet that recommends a declaw is not a vet I'd do business with. SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > The weird thing is that he does USE the litter box. He just seems to > get moody for one reason or another sometimes. I feel like he is [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > What are the side effects of a bad declaw? ... Or a declaw in general? > Thank you for the posts... kellyh & paws for thought. =) I didn't > indicate so in my first message... but I posted one immediately after > saying that a UTI or any other physical cause is not a factor. He has > been to the vet several times and he said that he was perfectly > healthy. <snip> > He is a Bengal cat... if that helps any of you experts. Oh... > PAWSFORTHOUGHT... he is declawed... and come to mention it... most of > the major problems have taken place since then. Why do you ask? You > seem concerned... I am now too. The vet recommended it for his breed > and personality. I always trust professionals... Should I not? He > said there were no drawbacks and/or side effects. ??? This is tragic! Declawing involves amputation, and it often leads to physical and behavioral problems. Inappropriate urination is one of the most common problems associated with declawing. This doesn't mean that all declawed cats will develop the problem, but it is much more common for declawed cats and for others. Unfortunately, that damage can't be undone. However, you may be able to do a few things to help alleviate some of the problems. I adopted a cat some years ago that had previously been declawed (all four paws!!!). In her case, she started to urinate outside the litter box when she was older, and I always believed that it was associated with pain in trying to use litter (arthritis is one of the physical problems that is often associated with declawing). I looked for the very softest clumping litter I could find and finally settled on one called Better Way. It can be hard to find, but it helped a great deal. There is also a litter known as Cat Attract. I have never used it, but it is a scoopable litter blended with an herb extract that is supposed to be an attractant to cats. That might be worth trying. Assuming that this may be at least partly behavioral and not completely related to pain or other physical problems, I also suggest that you get some Feliway. I prefer the plug-in diffusers instead of the spray because the diffusers/dispensers release premeasured amounts at regular intervals. Feliway is used for behavior modification and can be very useful in reducing stress. As a last resort, you may need to consider medication such as Prozac. Tufts Veterinary Hospital has an online service to help people deal with behavioral problems in their cats, and they might be able to help if you subscribe to their service. Oh, yes, please search for another vet. It is *outrageous* to hear that a vet would actually "recommend" declawing for a particular "breed and personality." MaryL Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e >box when she was older, and I always believed that it was associated with >pain in trying to use litter (arthritis is one of the physical problems that [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >with an herb extract that is supposed to be an attractant to cats. That >might be worth trying. A couple people mentioned arthritis being associated with declawing. I would suggest adding a supplement. Glucosamine will help with that. Even if she doesn't have it now, it can help prevent it. You can supplements to mix in with food, flavored tablets to give the cat directly, or some foods come with it in it. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > A couple people mentioned arthritis being associated with declawing. I > would suggest adding a supplement. Glucosamine will help with that. > Even if she doesn't have it now, it can help prevent it. > > You can supplements to mix in with food, flavored tablets to give the > cat directly, or some foods come with it in it. I wonder why arthritis is associated with declawing? The only thing I can think of is that it alters the way the cat moves???? Anyhow, it is, indeed, appalling that vets treat declawing so cavalierly--and even recommend it. I do hope Mingy's vet has changed his ways. I should find out and then abandon him if he hasn't since it indicates a vet who is not very knowledgeable. (And let me add Mingy was NOT declawed, thank goodness, since I did research that.) SignatureJean B. >> Thank you for the posts... kellyh & paws for thought. =) I didn't >> indicate so in my first message... but I posted one immediately after [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o > Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e Where do you get your Feliway? I ordered some online from BioVet because of the low price but it didn't seem to last as long. My imagination maybe? W > Where do you get your Feliway? I ordered some online from BioVet because > of the low price but it didn't seem to last as long. My imagination maybe? > > W How long did yours last? I find that one refill usually lasts for about 5+ weeks. I ordered mine from http://www.valleyvet.com. You could also try www.petguys.com or www.petfooddirect.com. MaryL >> Where do you get your Feliway? I ordered some online from BioVet because >> of the low price but it didn't seem to last as long. My imagination [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > MaryL I was getting 3-4 weeks from the cheap ones. Will check prices elsewhere and look for the next best deal. I usually run the diffusers during the summer to keep my guys chilled out when I have more fosters going in and out of the 'foster room'. Something freaked out my Boots the other night and he was hiding behind the couch all day yesterday. Time to fire up the diffuser I think. W > Assuming that this may be at least partly behavioral and not completely > related to pain or other physical problems, I also suggest that you get some > Feliway. I prefer the plug-in diffusers instead of the spray because the > diffusers/dispensers release premeasured amounts at regular intervals. I looked into this... Awesome product! However, they don't sell it at my regular pet store. I ordered some online... Hope it's as great as it seems! =) > Oh, yes, please search for another vet. It is *outrageous* to hear that a > vet would actually "recommend" declawing for a particular "breed and > personality." Yes. Another vet is definately a must. I can't believe he would recommeded this procedure... and lied to my face about the side efects. That really ticks me off...*BIG TIME*. You would think that someone who has dedicated there life to animals would be totally against such a thing. grr!!! ... Thanks for the advice Mary! =) > He is a Bengal cat... if that helps any of you experts. Oh... > PAWSFORTHOUGHT... he is declawed... and come to mention it... most of > the major problems have taken place since then. Why do you ask? You > seem concerned... I am now too. The vet recommended it for his breed > and personality. I always trust professionals... Should I not? He > said there were no drawbacks and/or side effects. ??? He probably holds a deep and permanent grudge against you for mutiliating his feet. You rip his claws out, he pees all over your house - what goes around comes around. SignatureNiel H Thank you captain obvious! I was asking for HELP ... not negative criticism... Until tonight I never knew what they did to cats in a declaw! I know it's my fault for being so ignorant to the topic... But you would think that your vet wouldn't recommend something so horrible for your cat, would you? Well... he did... and I did. Now my cat's pissed, literally, and it's my entire fault. I'm sorry. I know I can't take the pain away from kitty... but I'm going to do everything I can to make him feel better... and stop others from having this procedure done on their cat. I'm not a mean or malicious person, and I feel awful for what I did... but you can't change the past, right? I wrote this to someone earlier: I was told to check out stopdeclaw.com. ... I just did and I started gagging and crying. I made my husband come take a look at what we did to our little guy. We both feel like IGNORANT a.ses. We are not going to give up on him. It's our fault he acts the way he does... and we have to live with it now. We will get educated... and work together on helping him. We realized that him peeing on the bed was probably because the bed is soft and does not hurt his paws. =( We kind of put pieces of the puzzle together. We always wondered why he would "scoop" at everything. Now we know. Our vet recommended that we do the procedure. I asked my husband why he would recommend such a thing... He said that everyone has to make there money somehow... jerks... that's just as bad as being a drug dealer. I'm going to call the vet in the morning and let him know what I found out... We will look for vet services elsewhere now... from a vet that is against declawing. When we find that vet, we are going to take Brody in to get checked out for a bad declaw. Sad. So sad. We feel horrible. > Thank you captain obvious! I was asking for HELP ... not negative > criticism... Until tonight I never knew what they did to cats in a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and I feel awful for what I did... but you can't change the past, > right? <snip> > I found out... We will look for vet services elsewhere now... from a > vet that is against declawing. When we find that vet, we are going to > take Brody in to get checked out for a bad declaw. Sad. So sad. We > feel horrible. Don't beat yourself up over this -- just move on and do whatever is best for your cat now. Many of us have gone through the stage where we honestly didn't know that there was anything wrong with declawing. I know I did, years ago. Fortunately, I did not have my cat declawed (although I later adopted a previously-declawed cat); but I could easily have made the same fateful decision you did. Many people simply considered it "normal" or "routine" to declaw a cat. That was also before we had the Internet, so research was not as easy (but definitely not impossible). Still, I just didn't think about researching it -- I just casually accepted the "thinking" that there was was nothing wrong with declawing. That is what happened to you. You know better now and have made it clear that it won't happen again. So, as I said, now you need to move forward and do whatever you can for your cat. You can't undo this terrible butchery, but you can take steps to help your cat as much as possible (and not "blame" your kitty for what people often mistake for "malicious" behavior). I hope you can find a vet that opposes declawing. At the same time, I know that can be a formidable task -- and may even be impossible, depending on where you live. Unfortunately, declawing is a lucrative part of many (probably most) veterinary practices. Still, you could at the least search for a vet who is open to a frank discussion of the consequences and who does not "recommend" this brutal procedure. MaryL Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e > Thank you captain obvious! I was asking for HELP ... not negative > criticism... Until tonight I never knew what they did to cats in a [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > take Brody in to get checked out for a bad declaw. Sad. So sad. We > feel horrible. I'm glad to hear you're going to help your kitty and work with him. I know it's hard to believe a vet, who is supposed to heal animals, will actually mutilate them for money. It is sick and disgusting for sure. Most countries ban declawing or just don't do it, and when they hear it's done here in the U.S. and Canada, they're rightfully horrified that people have this done to their cats. Unfortunately, cats develop problems from declawing, whether or not the vet did a "good" job. It's the very nature of the amputation and the fact that cats are digitigrade (meaning they walk on their toe tips (the part that is amputated) that causes the problems. You may also want to contact a cat behaviorist who may be able to help you work through this and to help Brody. I believe the second link I previously posted is a woman's website who does work with declawed cats. LAUREN See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe > Thank you captain obvious! I was asking for HELP ... not negative > criticism... Until tonight I never knew what they did to cats in a [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > take Brody in to get checked out for a bad declaw. Sad. So sad. We > feel horrible. You know, I don't fault you. It is really too bad, but you didn't know. Now you do, and you won't do that to another cat. I speak as someone who bought a cat. I didn't know about kitten mills. Now I do, and I wouldn't do that again.... We live, we learn.... I do think your vet is another story though.... SignatureJean B. > Thank you for the posts... kellyh & paws for thought. =) I didn't > indicate so in my first message... but I posted one immediately after [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > and personality. I always trust professionals... Should I not? He > said there were no drawbacks and/or side effects. ??? The vet actually did a urine test? > Thank you for the posts... kellyh & paws for thought. =) I didn't > indicate so in my first message... but I posted one immediately after > saying that a UTI or any other physical cause is not a factor. He has > been to the vet several times and he said that he was perfectly > healthy. Yeah I saw that one after I had already posted. How long ago was he seen? > He is a Bengal cat... if that helps any of you experts. Oh... > PAWSFORTHOUGHT... he is declawed... and come to mention it... most of > the major problems have taken place since then. Why do you ask? You > seem concerned... I am now too. The vet recommended it for his breed > and personality. I always trust professionals... Should I not? He > said there were no drawbacks and/or side effects. ??? Excuse me but I have to scream!!! Your vet is a total and complete bastard and idiot! Did this idiot happen to mention that declawing is actually 10 painful amputations to the last digit of each toe? I hope your vet didn't declaw him in the back too. Yes, declawing can most definitely be the cause of your poor kitty's problems. Declawed cats can have phantom pain in their paws (much like a human amputee does), and thus, when he uses the litter, he associates the pain with the litterbox. That's why he's peeing on soft things like your chair and bed. I am going to post some links for you to read about what declawing really is and I hope you'll read them. Unfortunately, greedy vets will promote declawing because it's a big money maker for them, and unfortunately the poor cat pays with his health, both physically and psychologially. It's going to take some real effort on your part to help this cat, and I hope you won't abandon him. I also suggest you print out the articles I am going to post and show them to your husband. Here's a couple of articles: http://www.listnow.com/helpingpaws/articles/article_123.html http://www.listnow.com/helpingpaws/articles/article_123.html LAUREN See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe > Yeah I saw that one after I had already posted. How long ago was he > seen? He was seen two weeks ago... > I hope your vet didn't declaw him in the back too. He did. =( > Declawaed cats can have phantom pain in their paws (much like a human amputee does), > and thus, when he uses the litter, he associates the pain with the > litterbox. I know... I read about that side effect while researching this procedure. I really should have done my homework before the operation. You know I never even knew that humans had "phantom pais" ... Wow. > Unfortunately, greedyvets will promote declawing ... You said it. I will have to work hard. Don't worry. I won't give him up. This is something that our 'family' is going to have to work through. I showed my huby declaw pics and he felt just about as bad as I do. He agrees that its our fault for the majority of the misbehavior... so that's a mistake we are going to have to live with for a long time... Thank you for the links. Several very helpful people like yourseld have provided me with helpful links. I made a word doc with a list of them. I'm going to check them all out tonight. Thanks again! =) -Jenn >> I hope your vet didn't declaw him in the back too. > > He did. =( Oh, this is so sad. Even most vets that will declaw will not do the procedure on all four paws. That really is butchery. Cats need their back claws for traction and balance, and your vet has destroyed even that essential part of your cat's life. Well, you know better now, and you clearly feel very bad about it. You are also taking steps to make help your cat now that you recognize the damage. I mentioned in a previous post that I adopted a cat (Amber - RB) years ago who had *previously* been four-paw declawed. You already have the bad news about physical and behavioral problems that can accompany this tragic procedure. On a somewhat better note (for you), my Amber really did compensate in many ways for what had been done to her. She was a very trusting and loving cat, and over the years she acquired better balance and learned to adjust in many ways. At the same time, she never did have the grace and balance that my non-declawed cats have had. I do want to encourage you to continue to search for ways to help your kitty and not to fall into the trap of assuming that your cat is being malicious when he urinates outside the litterbox. That isn't it, at all! He probably finds it painful to use the litterbox -- either from early-onset arthritis (very common in declawed cats) or from phantom pain. At the same time, please have your vet (after you get *another* vet -- *not* the one who performed the declaw) check your cat's paws. There have been some cases of very poor surgery, and it's possible that your cat might need some corrective surgery. That isn't very likely, but it should be checked. Someone else mentioned glucosamine. That is also a very good idea with a declawed cat, or any cat that seems to have arthritis. Even better, you should check into Cosequin (which is basically glucosamine combined with some nutritional supplementation in a formula specifically for cats). Here's a picture of Amber at age 15: http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=999&gid=7915214&uid=2364916&members=1 She was a dear, sweet, loving cat and should never been subjected to the atrocity of declawing. It was done before I adopted her, but (like you) there was a time when I simply didn't realize how cruel the procedure is. It was just sheer luck that I never had that done to any of my cats before I learned better. MaryL >> I hope your vet didn't declaw him in the back too. > > He did. =( OMG!!!! This vet is even more of a sicko than I thought :( :( :( Even vets that routinely declaw don't do the four-paw declaw unless it's some kind of extreme circumstance or the client insists on it. I'm sorry this guy was your vet. Please tell everyone you know that has animals about him. You might even want to contact area animal rescues and let them know what an a.shole he is and what he did to your cat. People adopting animals will ask for vet recommendations, and they need to know this is one vet to avoid!!! -Kelly This is the link I meant to post. I believe this is the woman who works with declawed cats and there's also some articles on her site: http://www.goodcatswearblack.com/ Help for pee problems: Increase the number of litter boxes you have - and have them in discreet places that are easily accessed by the cat. Also, you need to offer a variety of litters (clay, clumping, pine, corn)....there is one called ATTRACT LITTER that is supposed to be for cats with litter issues. And try various scents. feline pine has a new clumping litter - I like it! Cat ATTRACT is available at Petsmart and so is the new feline pine clumping. You need a variety of cat litter box styles (covered, shallow, deep) and put a thinner layer of litter - some believe that cats do not like going in litter if it is too deep.....we humans like it deep because this means less changing....I use large sterilite plastic bins that I buy at Walmart because I have a cat that misses the box and also sprays her urine - the high sides of the Sterilite box prevent a mess! Also, if cat insists on going in one certain spot (in a corner of bathroom for instance) put a litter box there - at least do this now until this situation is figured out. Also use that sticky drawer liner stuff to anchor the litter box on the bottom so cat cannot turn it over! Maybe kitty is getting skittish about litter box because perhaps he almost turned the box over once and it freaked him out. If cat goes in a sink etc repeatedly - put a puppy pad there so it will absorb!Less Mess. You can buy the puppy pads at petmsart. Also, buy a plastic/water-proof matress cover to save your mattress! In addition to checking for UTI - have urinalysis done for possible crystals in urinary track or blood work up for diabetes or other diseases with frequent urination issues. Could check bowel stuff too to make sure that this is not a constipation issue and kitty is trying to tell you he is in pain? Even though kitty may not have infection - something is not right. Lastly, instead of time-out, you may have to limit the space your cat has in the house - limit access to spray-prone areas (more door shutting for you) until this is resolved. Try not to get mad at kitty - he most likely cannot help this. GOod luck, Jen > My cat is bonkers!!! All my husband and I have ever done was try to > love him and give him tons of attention. I don't work, so I am at [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > and stuff. What can I do to help this??? I'm at this cat's > mercy!!! PLEASE HELP!!! >cats with litter issues. And try various scents. feline pine has a new >clumping litter - I like it! Cat ATTRACT is available at Petsmart and >so is the new feline pine clumping. Is that clumping litter a small grain? I tried the pellets and Chase hates it. I can't get my litter at the grocery store, only the pet store, which closes before I get off work. If I need it before a day off, I have to buy the old clay kind. I won't use scoopable silicone litters, so I'm limited on choices. >You need a variety of cat litter box styles (covered, shallow, deep) >and put a thinner layer of litter - some believe that cats do not like >going in litter if it is too deep.....we humans like it deep because >this means less changing.... I would try it both ways. You can set up two boxes, one each way, and see what is preferred. Most of my cats do not care, but Chase likes his really deep. He can't wait to jump in when I top it off. >I use large sterilite plastic bins that I >buy at Walmart because I have a cat that misses the box and also sprays >her urine - the high sides of the Sterilite box prevent a mess! I use a box, possibly the same brand, that has a separate piece that locks onto the bottom. It is not covered, but gives higher sides. I like it because I can fill it deeper for Chase, and he doesn't shovel it all out onto the floor. He's pretty excited about his digging. I also recently discovered that it helps protect the liners. I tried another larger box whihc was great, expect that the cats totally shredded the liner by pawing at the edges of the box. I'd love to go back to the larger box, but I don't have a way to protect the liners, and I really like being able to use the liners. >Also, if cat insists on going in one certain spot (in a corner of >bathroom for instance) put a litter box there - at least do this now >until this situation is figured out. Very good idea. The first goal is to get them using the boxes, regardless of what you have to do to convince them. Once you have them using the boxes consistently, *then* you can work on compromising on the terms. When I got Jay Jay, he would spend the day upstairs whiel I was at work. But the litter boxes were both downstairs (where the cats normally hang out). The door was always open, but Jay Jay was afraid of dogs, and they hung out in the living room. Jay Jay would only walk through the living room if he walked with me. So, I put a litter box upstairs. There wasn't a good place for one as it needs to be away from the dogs. So, I put it in the bathtub. I a it annoying to remove each time we took a shower, but the dogs would never jump in the tub, so it was unavailable to them but still available for Jay Jay. It worked great. Jay Jay had soem diarrhea from the food change, but he never missed the box. After a month, I took out the box. He was good with the dogs by then, so no problems. >Also, buy a plastic/water-proof matress cover to save your mattress! You can also cover the top of the bed with a vinyl tablecloth or two. I used to do this when Kira would get seperation anxiety. I would go out of twon overnight and come back to a mess on my bed. Usually diarrhea. I would put the tablecloth on, fuzzy side up, and toss a throw blanket on part of it. She had a cozy place to stay, and I could peel off the mess and have a nice clean bed underneath. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > Help for pee problems: > > Increase the number of litter boxes you have - and have them in > discreet places that are easily accessed by the cat. <snip> > Also, if cat insists on going in one certain spot (in a corner of > bathroom for instance) put a litter box there - at least do this now > until this situation is figured out. Good idea! Duffy insists on having a litter box in a specific location. Shortly after I adopted him, I tried to change the location of the box. He would "usually" use it but would occasionally return to the previous location and use the floor. I experimented, and the same thing happened each time. So, Duffy won! One of the boxes now remains in his "preferred" location, and I have not had any problems since then. The suggestion about the number of litter boxes is also a good one. Some cats like to use one box for urine and one for feces. The general rule of thumb is to provide one box per cat plus one extra. MaryL > Increase the number of litter boxes you have - and have them in > discreet places that are easily accessed by the cat. I have two litterboxes... but I'm going to buy another at the store tomorrow. > Also, you need to offer a variety of litters (clay, clumping, pine, > corn)....there is one called ATTRACT LITTER that is supposed to be for > cats with litter issues. I'll look for this at the store as well. > You need a variety of cat litter box styles (covered, shallow, deep) > and put a thinner layer of litter - Good idea. I'll make sure & try this out as well. > Also, if cat insists on going in one certain spot (in a corner of > bathroom for instance) put a litter box there - Genius! Why didn't I think of that??? > Also, buy a plastic/water-proof matress cover to save your mattress! Again... On my list for tomorrow. ... Thanks for all of your help JEN... I really appreciate it! =) -Jenn Have you thought about contacting an animal behaviorist? Maybe he/she could suggest some things to help with your cat. If there isn't one in your area, you could contact the veterinarian behaviorist that I did...Dr. Nicholas Dodman at Tuft's. They offer a program called PETFAX where you can consult with Dr. Dodman and his associates via email, phone etc. and, working with your own vet, can help overcome your cat's behavior problems. You can see info about Dr. Dodman here: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/facpages/dodman_n.html Good luck. Sue > My cat is bonkers!!! All my husband and I have ever done was try to > love him and give him tons of attention. I don't work, so I am at [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > and stuff. What can I do to help this??? I'm at this cat's > mercy!!! PLEASE HELP!!! Have you tried having this cat tested for UTI? SignatureCat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time! www.catgalaxymedia.com Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs! www.panthertekit.com > My cat is bonkers!!! All my husband and I have ever done was try to > love him and give him tons of attention. I don't work, so I am at [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > and stuff. What can I do to help this??? I'm at this cat's > mercy!!! PLEASE HELP!!! |
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