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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / September 2003Medicating male sprayer
Hi everyone ! Has anyone else here medicated their cat to stop him/her from spraying? We just started researching this option and discovered that there are several drugs that can be used and several that we would never consider due to some of the side effects. Also, would a behaviorist be helpful? We have a 4 year old male cat who is spraying in every room of the house. It's probably a territorial thing because the neighbors cats are outside most of the time and they hang around our house alot which agitates Morris. We are pretty sure that it isn't a health issue such as a urinary problem because we've seen him in the act of spraying several times, but he is due to go to the vet so we'll check with the vet. We've been trying the Feliway products for about a year now and his spraying is just as bad as before we started using this product. His spraying is ruining furniture and it is really time consuming to keep cleaning up after him. So.....we hate to do it but we are considering the possibility of medicating him, if only temporary to see if that would reduce some anxiety. Whether we stop him from spraying or not, he is our boy and, of course, he will always have a good home with us. >So.....we hate to do it but we are considering the possibility of medicating >him, if only temporary to see if that would reduce some anxiety. What has your vet recommended? I have a sprayer also. I thought he was doing better on Feliway but the moment after I posted my "success" story he started spraying all over again. He sprayed directly on the Feliway mister! > >So.....we hate to do it but we are considering the possibility of medicating > >him, if only temporary to see if that would reduce some anxiety. > > What has your vet recommended? I have a sprayer also. I thought he was doing > better on Feliway but the moment after I posted my "success" story he started > spraying all over again. He sprayed directly on the Feliway mister! Hi, Morris did the same thing. He sprayed the area where we had the Feliway plug-in. It did seem work for a couple of months but now he seems to be oblivious to it. The vet didn't really offer a suggestion. I asked him if the Feliway worked as it is supposed to and he said it works in some cases and in some cases it does not work. We're planning to ask him about medication in the next week or two. I think Morris is due for a check up. I'll try to remember to post a follow-up. How many cats are in your home? We have 3 females and Morris. Strange thing is, Morris didn't spray for the first couple of years after we adopted him. >How many cats are in your home? We have 3 females and Morris. Strange thing >is, Morris didn't spray for the first couple of years after we adopted him. I have one female who is sweet as pie. Then I have Patchy the sprayer. He didn't spray the inside of the house for the first few months. He seems to spray where my other cat sits a lot. I also do squirrel rescue and a couple marked an area near where he sprays so that doesn't help. He also just sprayed near my husbands socks and shoes. The anti-depressant meds and anti-anxiety medications are used for spraying. As far as I know, they are safe. Check with your vet. Also, he needs to be checked for a urinary tract infection. Gail > Hi everyone ! > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > stop him from spraying or not, he is our boy and, of course, he will always > have a good home with us. I have a sprayer too and I consulted an animal behaviorist (Dr. Nicholas Dodman through his service at Tuft's called PetFax). We put my cat on prozac which really helped alleviate the spraying problem. In fact, we got his spraying behavior under control so well that we were able to discontinue using the prozac. Until recently, however. I got a kitten and Scooter started spraying again. I tried using Feliway but it really didn't help. So now Scooter is back on the prozac and the spraying has stopped. I'm not big on medicating my pets, but in this case the prozac really helped. Sue > Hi everyone ! > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > stop him from spraying or not, he is our boy and, of course, he will always > have a good home with us. > I have a sprayer too and I consulted an animal behaviorist (Dr. Nicholas > Dodman through his service at Tuft's called PetFax). We put my cat on [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Sue What dosage do you use (and how much does your cat weigh)? I ask because my sister has had a spraying problem with one of her cats for four years. This cat is otherwise a loving, friendly, affectionate cat. She has tried numerous products (including feliway), but I don't think she tried any of them long enough to really give the medication a proper chance. I recently paid for Tufts PetFax on her behalf, and they recommended prozac. Her own vet has never used prozac and does not seem very open to it. He did give her a prescription for it at her request, but her vet is very negative on using it. He said that the literature indicates numerous side effects, but I have read about a number of success stories with prozac when other medications did not work. I would love to find something that would help both my sister and her cat. The reason I asked about both dosage and weight is that her cat is very large. She has not yet contacted the Tufts vet in person, but I am trying to encourage her to do so (it's included in the price I paid). Also: how do you administer it? Did you purchase yours from a compounding pharmacy and include it in food, or did you use a different method? Thanks! MaryL (take out the litter to reply) Mary, Scooter weighs about 17 pounds so he's a pretty big boy. He gets 4 mg a day. There's a formula as to dosage but I don't have that info here at home. I can get it for you if you really need it. I have the med compounded into the correct dosage in a chewable treat through vetrxrx.com (1-877-vetrxrx). Tuna flavored. Scooter still doesn't like the treat much, so I administer it much the same way you would a pill. My vet was not familiar with prozac either but she was willing to give me a prescription since I did consult with a behaviorist. Now that she sees a success story, she's all for it. As far as side effects, yes, there are a few like increase chance of liver and/or kidney problems. I have blood work-ups done on Scooter about every 4-6 months to make sure there aren't any problems. But I think the benefits outweigh the potential problems. I have read lots of good things about using prozac....Dr. Dodman is high on it. It can be used long term without real problems. And it really helped the spraying problem. Scooter sprayed for 8 years before I finally found a solution. Of course, I do do other behavior modifications in addition to the medication. If I was your sister, I would definitely contact Tuft's and have that prescription filled. She may prove her vet wrong. Hope that helps. Sue > > I have a sprayer too and I consulted an animal behaviorist (Dr. Nicholas > > Dodman through his service at Tuft's called PetFax). We put my cat on [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > MaryL > (take out the litter to reply) Sue, Thanks very much. I'll forward your message to my sister (to go along with information that Megan and some others have provided). You don't need to look up the dosage for me, but I appreciate the offer. Tufts provided some information. However, I know that prozac is one medication that can be increased if needed, and I wondered if you had needed to do that. It doesn't appear that you did, if you are giving 4mg. My sister's cat weighs 19.6 lbs., so he is quite a large cat. Thanks, again. I would like all the "positive" thoughts I can get for my sister. MaryL (take out the litter to reply) > Mary, > Scooter weighs about 17 pounds so he's a pretty big boy. He gets 4 mg a [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > MaryL > > (take out the litter to reply) Feeding PROZAC to ... a cat!? Oh .. my ... gawd. What sort of behavior modifying drug(s) are you on? -- ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain" >blkcatgal wrote: > Mary, [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] >> MaryL >> (take out the litter to reply) This is actually the drug of choice in certain situations. It is what Tufts University Veterinary School has recommended for my sister's cat (through their PetFax program), and there are several others on this group that have used it. Prozac certainly would not be the first thing to try, but you can find messages from others who have successfully used it for spraying when it seemed that nothing else would work. MaryL > Feeding PROZAC to ... a cat!? Oh .. my ... gawd. What sort of > behavior modifying drug(s) are you on? [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > >> MaryL > >> (take out the litter to reply) Mary, there is a whole body of thought regarding the long term use of Prozac and other behavior modify drugs on adult HUMANS. It's not favorable. Just because some short term study or experiment has seemingly favorable findings does not mean that long term use is without damaging physiological side effects. Talk about animal experimentation or projecting human problems on pets. Sheesh. -- ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain" >MaryL wrote: > This is actually the drug of choice in certain situations. It is [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] >>>> MaryL >>>> (take out the litter to reply) > Mary, there is a whole body of thought regarding the long term use of > Prozac and other behavior modify drugs on adult HUMANS. It's not [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > ~~Philip I certainly agree that prozac should not be used on a routine basis or for problems that can be remedied by lesser means. However, there are situations where nothing else seems to work. This is true for my sister's cat. She has tried to work through the spraying problem for four years. Her cat has been checked for medical problems. She has been to two vets in her regular veterinary clinic, has taken him to a holistic vet, and now is working with Tufts. Her cat is friendly and loving, but he has sprayed continuously -- and literally "everywhere" -- for four years. Her house reeks to the point that it is almost unbearable to inhabit. She had the worst of it professionally cleaned this year (and that has helped significantly), and she has been cleaning with an enzymatic cleaner. The cleaning is now almost a full-time job. The result is that she now confines her cat to one room. She had to strip out all of the carpet and pad from one room, and the walls are saturated. She has now moved him to another room with vinyl flooring and wood paneled walls. She coated the walls with polyurethane and has been spraying the entire surface (for about 2' up) with enzymatic cleaner on a weekly basis in addition to spraying noticeable spots daily. This is not good for her and it is not good for her cat (who is left alone far too long because he confined to the one room). Clearly, something needs to be done to alleviate the situation. She loves this cat and he loves to be with her. At this point, prozac seems to be the only thing left that is generally approved by behaviorists. What else would you suggest?? MaryL (take out the litter to reply) In news:vn7vi448qr1344@corp.supernews.com, MaryL <carstan101TAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER@yahoo.com> being of bellicose mind posted: > > Mary, there is a whole body of thought regarding the long term > > use of Prozac and other behavior modify drugs on adult HUMANS. [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > MaryL > (take out the litter to reply) Whoa. You have a sister who is so determined to confine a pissed off feline that she would endure a urine soaked house? For what purpose? The woman needs to get a life with a HUMAN, perferably a man. The damned cat should have been shown The Door after the first 30 days of failure to stop the spraying. That would have been the HUMANE thing to do for all concerned. She has in effect, a CRAZY person living with her yet she can't face that fact. Would she tolerate the same behavior from an human being? Maybe she would! There is an old saying that I will take license with: The rocks in your sister's head match the holes in the cat's head. -- ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain" > Whoa. You have a sister who is so determined to confine a pissed off > feline that she would endure a urine soaked house? For what purpose? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > ~~Philip And this is the response from the same person who objected to using prozac because of a body of thought that is "not favorable." Instead, you would have her dump the cat outdoors -- a cat that has never lived outside and would be facing the traffic of an urban environment? A cat that clearly has behavioral issues that my sister needs to work on but which otherwise is a sweet, gentle cat? Incidentally, this is not a "damn cat." This is a cat that is greatly loved. To quote from your earlier message: "Sheesh." MaryL In news:vn93c2hhmb5a98@corp.supernews.com, MaryL <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> being of bellicose mind posted: > > Whoa. You have a sister who is so determined to confine a > > pissed off feline that she would endure a urine soaked house? [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > MaryL You bet! When conventional retraining and disciplinary measures fail ... including isolation in a rubber room, then you cut your losses by letting the cat .... GO (or finding it another home). That is the humane thing to do for all concerned. It is not humane (in my view) to start using psychotropic drugs on a captive animal (or your sister) to deal with this marking problem. Obviously your sister's human/feline "fit" is a bad one. Living with "sweet, gentle" kitty is overshadowed by the reduction in the quality of indoor life what with gallons of piss being shot all over the place. Is your sister THAT desperate for companionship? -- ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain" >You bet! When conventional retraining and disciplinary measures fail >... including isolation in a rubber room, then you cut your losses by >letting the cat .... GO (or finding it another home). That is the >humane thing to do for all I've just got to jump in here and disagree. Phillip, BTW, I had the same reaction you did the firrst time I heard about a cat being given Valium, or Prozac or Buspar. But I've seen (even short-term use) of it *work*. Your suggestions, are just wrong. The most humane thing to do isn't to suddenly exile an indoor cat to the outdoors. And certainly not to give it away." If *you* can't stand the reek of cat pee in your home, how would you expect someone else to? Inappropriate elimination is more common than you think. In fact, it seems to be close to the #1 reason forr relinquishment at our shelter. Sherry > > You bet! When conventional retraining and disciplinary measures > > fail ... including isolation in a rubber room, then you cut your [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > shelter. > Sherry Sorry Sherry, but if the human/cat relationship is a "good fit" then you don't have these marking issues. Cats don't pee on their home turf. Sherry, I've had cats in my life for most of my 68 yrs and I know a thing or two about the furry little buggers. ;-) Whatever is making the cat mark territory or venting some hostility in YOUR house does not mean that the behavior will continue in another home or with different caretakers. AS I SAID, the best thing to do before a lot of damage is done by a pissed off cat is to cut your losses by letting the cat GO or (perhaps you missed this part) by getting the cat a new home. Period. This lesson came at the price of pee soaked carpeting RUINING the hardwood floor under the carpet in several areas of a living room and bedroom years ago. Several THOUSAND dollars (early 1970's) worth of floor damage was done. As I do not find drugging children with Ritalin or Prozac without risk, so do I find it unacceptable to drug a cat to make it conform to life indoors. Some individual cats for whatever reason are just not compatible with life indoors. Sprayers belong OUTDOORS. That they land in your custody is just an unpleasant fact of life. -- ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain" (remove "invalid" from my address to reply) >Sorry Sherry, but if the human/cat relationship is a "good fit" then >you don't have these marking issues. Cats don't pee on their home >turf. Point taken. But I have to qualify and say that I believe more so than strictly the human/cat relationship, it's the relationship of the cat with its surroundings in general. Other cats in the home may be the cause. Or it could be neighborhood cats hanging around that's making him feel the need to "mark". Admittedly, *something* is making the cat anxious, but it could very well be other factors than the owner himself. Sherry, I've had cats in my life for most of my 68 yrs and I >know a thing or two about the furry little buggers. ;-) Whatever >is making the cat mark territory or venting some hostility in YOUR >house does not mean that the behavior will continue in another home >or with different caretakers. True. Being affiliated with a shelter, my first reaction to your post wasthat you were implying, "Dump the cat at the shelter." Trying out a new environment, if you're lucky enough to find a willing recipient, would be great. Finding him a home as an only cat, or finding him a home where he can have outdoor access, are all avenues that would be good to try. As long as you're willing to take responsibiility for him. IMO (and god help, they're going to roast me for this)......Bouncing a pissing cat from one owner to another to another, until finally someone down the line dumps him to fend for himself, is inhumane. I'd rather see him euthanized than dumped. (although preferably of course neither one) It's so hard to home an adult cat anyway. Homing an adult cat with behavioral issues is on the brink of impossible right now during kitten season, with so many kittens and healthy cats waiting. I hate the idea of drugging cats too. But if Buspar, for example, keeps a cat in its home where people love him, it's something you've got to consider. It's not set in stone the animal would be on the drug long-term. I'm just saying it's worth a try. Sherry >snip< > True. Being affiliated with a shelter, my first reaction to your [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > all avenues that would be good to try. As long as you're willing > to take responsibiility for him. Once a new home is found, my responsibility is OH-ver! All cats bring happiness to your home. Most when they arrive and a few when they leave. A home for any animal is at the discretion of us humans. If the animal starts or continues to "act out" (using a pop-psyche term) causing damage to your home or by creating a litter box out of your home, then... out they go to a new home. There is a reason some cats land in the shelters just like there are reasons people get committed to insane asylums. Their behavior became socially unacceptable. (yes I know there are other reasons pets end up in shelters). >IMO (and god help, they're going > to roast me for this)......Bouncing a pissing cat from one owner > to another to another, until finally someone down the line dumps > him to fend for himself, is inhumane. It's inhumane to suffer YOUR family to the insanity of a neurotic pet. People first. >I'd rather see him euthanized than dumped. (although preferably > of course neither one) > It's so hard to home an adult cat anyway. Homing an adult cat with > behavioral issues is on the brink of impossible right now during [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Sherry You said it. "With so many kittens and healthy cats waiting." Why put up with an uncorrectable sprayer when you can socialize a kitten to humans and indoor living which usually makes for a well adjusted adult cat? If you want to take on a "project" then go ahead and risk taking on an adult cat. Such a project often works but I don't know the success percentage. I've sourced kittens from a breeder, from private parties, and some strays. The best socialized were those I've bottle or dropper fed as young as possible so they are "humanized" early. I am against resorting to expensive psychiatric drug therapy on animals. Sorry. -- ~~Philip "Never let school interfere with your education - Mark Twain" > The > damned cat should have been shown The Door after the first 30 days of > failure to stop the spraying. That would have been the HUMANE thing > to do for all concerned. Philip .... What would your suggestion be if I were to tell you that the problem started because our next door neighbors let their cats outside to roam the town and to hang around our house antagonizing Morris. It isn't his fault that our neighbors aren't responsible cat owners. A couple of these cats cry to be inside but the humans only let them in when it is convenient for them. I have a sprayer too and I consulted an animal behaviorist (Dr. Nicholas Dodman through his service at Tuft's called PetFax). We put my cat on prozac which really helped alleviate the spraying problem. In fact, we got his spraying behavior under control so well that we were able to discontinue using the prozac. Until recently, however. I got a kitten and Scooter started spraying again. I tried using Feliway but it really didn't help. So now Scooter is back on the prozac and the spraying has stopped. I'm not big on medicating my pets, but in this case the prozac really helped. Sue > Hi everyone ! > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > stop him from spraying or not, he is our boy and, of course, he will always > have a good home with us. Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions. We probably will try meds for a short period of time and will definitely have him checked again with the vet to be sure there isn't a urinary tract problem... > Hi everyone ! > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > stop him from spraying or not, he is our boy and, of course, he will always > have a good home with us. > Thanks to everyone for their help and suggestions. We probably will try meds > for a short period of time and will definitely have him checked again with > the vet to be sure there isn't a urinary tract problem... Please note that if you are going to try meds, you will need to give them time to work. Some may take 6-8 weeks (and occasionally up to 12 weeks) to be effective. MaryL
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