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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / July 2005In Support of Monica
I have been following some of the messages concerning Monica with a combination of sadness and anger. Monica has a long history on the newsgroup, and many of you should be well aware that a cat's best interest is always foremost on her mind. You can tell a lot about a person by that person's posting history, and Monica has always shown an uncompromising dedication to the welfare of cats - all cats, not just her own. She has been consistent in her posting and her high values. I do not for one moment believe the negative spin that some people on this NG have cast on her role in the Conan saga. As far as I recall, Monica became involved only after Mary posted that she could not save this cat. The cat has now been rescued from the OC shelter and is in no danger of euthanasia. If you have read the lengthy email messages that were posted, you might notice that the original group first talked about saving Conan from OC, and they were willing at that time to board him while they looked for a home. Why are people now rushing to get him into a home - one that might be inadequate - when he is obviously safe and is being well-cared-for? It is better to take the time to select a good home than to "rush to judgment." I haven't seen the correspondence between Monica and the homes that were offered, but she clearly doesn't feel that they are appropriate - and I accept her judgment. I'm sure that Monica has made sure that Conan is receiving excellent care. I never like to think of a cat spending time in a kennel, but it is far better to spend a little extra time now to make sure he will eventually be adopted by someone who will love him and give him the best of care for his entire life than to accept a home simply to "get him out of there quickly." Conan is a young cat, and a relatively short time in a kennel or boarding situation is a drop in the bucket out of a cat's lifetime. It would be tragic if things were rushed and Conan were adopted by the wrong people and then either neglected or returned once again - as has already happened to him once. As a former board member of the Humane Society, I completely agree with the way Monica is handling things and would do things no differently. One of my tasks when I served on the board of directors was to conduct follow-up investigations of homes where cats and dogs had been adopted. I was appalled by some of the circumstances I saw. These were people who had been screened by the animal shelter, but they made some grievous errors in releasing these helpless animals without doing adequate background investigations. This is a situation that Monica obviously hopes to avoid! Vilifying someone who clearly has Conan's best interest at heart is something I simply don't understand. I'm glad that Monica's group is now looking out for Conan's welfare. This has become a petty flame war, and Monica is wise not to let herself become embroiled in answering every question that someone on this group raises. I have stayed pretty much out of the controversy and have posted only a very limited number of messages because I have been so disgusted at the low levels to which the dialog has sunk, but this has gone on for so long that I think it is important for someone to point out the good work that Monica is doing and to let her know that she has supporters on the newsgroup. I am one of them! MaryL Everyone helped SOW, but now only one gets the joy and pleasure of finding Conan a home? > I have been following some of the messages concerning Monica with a > combination of sadness and anger. Monica has a long history on the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > dedication to the welfare of cats - all cats, not just her own. She has been > consistent in her posting and her high values. Fair Enough > I do not for one moment believe the negative spin that some people on this > NG have cast on her role in the Conan saga. As far as I recall, Monica > became involved only after Mary posted that she could not save this cat. Don't forget Mary Did put up the earnest money. > The > cat has now been rescued from the OC shelter and is in no danger of [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > and I accept her judgment. I'm sure that Monica has made sure that Conan is > receiving excellent care. How? Kennel Care? No cage is good. Isn't this the truth? > I never like to think of a cat spending time in a > kennel, but it is far better to spend a little extra time now to make sure > he will eventually be adopted by someone who will love him and give him the > best of care for his entire life than to accept a home simply to "get him > out of there quickly." Fair enough, but the real problem is that Monica herself conceeds that she could not have gotten Conan without the group. This whole story is an inverted "Little Red Hen". Everyone helped SOW, but now only one gets the joy and pleasure of finding Conan a home? This is selfish. She's soaking up all the fun for herself. > Conan is a young cat, and a relatively short time in > a kennel or boarding situation is a drop in the bucket out of a cat's [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > adequate background investigations. This is a situation that Monica > obviously hopes to avoid! What if the sky WAS falling! Come'on, only freaks live their lives like this. You could get mugged just going to the local 7-11, or hit by a truck. Deep down you know she is not right in this, deep down, here, you are trying to expel guilt. I read the rest of your post, but I've said plenty. > Vilifying someone who clearly has Conan's best interest at heart is > something I simply don't understand. I'm glad that Monica's group is now [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > MaryL > I do not for one moment believe the negative spin that some people on this > NG have cast on her role in the Conan saga. As far as I recall, Monica > became involved only after Mary posted that she could not save this cat. Nonsense. I have an email from Monica dated the night prior to this. Moreover, when she contacted Dan Mahoney, the man who promised me (Rhonda, Tracy, and Charlie, too, in group emails) that he would pick Conan /Dylan up first thing the next morning to take him to the kennel until he could drive him to San Diego the next day, do you imagine that he said nothing about the plan? Bullshit. The > cat has now been rescued from the OC shelter and is in no danger of > euthanasia. If you have read the lengthy email messages that were posted, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > and the homes that were offered, but she clearly doesn't feel that they > are appropriate - and I accept her judgment. Therein lies the rub. Those of us who have seen the emails know that this cat is merely a pawn in the "Make Monica Look like the Best Cat Placer Ever" game. There is a reason many of us are upset. Believe what you like--though you admittedly have less information than those of us who are upset about the cruel treatment this cat has received. There is not much I can do, but I tend to be resourceful so the parties involved may rest assured that I will do everything I can to see that this intolerable, cruel, and abusive situation is resolved as soon as possible. Happily, the identities of the parties involved are a matter of public record. Dan Mahoney, his wife Nancy Mahoney, and Monica Towles will be held responsible for what happens to this cat. > There is not much I can do, but I tend to be resourceful so the parties > involved may rest assured that I will do everything I can to see that this > intolerable, cruel, and abusive situation is resolved as soon as possible. > Happily, the identities of the parties involved are a matter of public > record. I think you are going a bit far here, charging Monica & Co. with being "intolerable, cruel, and abusive". That's pretty strong language. At worst, you believe Conan is being housed in a kennel. That might not be the ideal situation, but it is certainly not animal abuse.  Signature-Kelly >> There is not much I can do, but I tend to be resourceful so the parties >> involved may rest assured that I will do everything I can to see that [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > worst, you believe Conan is being housed in a kennel. That might not be > the ideal situation, but it is certainly not animal abuse. Considering his past, and the fact that he would have been in a lovely home with a wonderful human had Monica done the right thing, it is indeed animal abuse that he sits in a cage now two weeks after Dan got him from the shelter. You see too many cats, Kelly. The individuals begin to not matter any more after a while. This particular cat matters to me. > Considering his past, and the fact that he would have been in a lovely > home with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You see too many cats, Kelly. The individuals begin to not matter any more > after a while. This particular cat matters to me. Yes, I do see a lot of cats, but they are all individuals to me. I'm like Rain Man with the shelter cats. Anytime some says "Do you remember a cat that was this color, age, etc" I know immediately who they are talking about. They all matter to me and they are all special. I have to trust that there was a good reason for turning down these homes. Perhaps Monica's standards are higher than mine, but in the end, Conan/Dylan will be in the best possible home. It's quite a stretch to accuse her of animal abuse, IMHO. -Kelly >> Considering his past, and the fact that he would have been in a lovely >> home with [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > Conan/Dylan will be in the best possible home. It's quite a stretch to > accuse her of animal abuse, IMHO. You already said that. I disagree. In reality, Dan has physical possession of this cat, so it is really up to him. > Yes, I do see a lot of cats, but they are all individuals to me. I'm like > Rain Man with the shelter cats. Anytime some says "Do you remember a cat > that was this color, age, etc" I know immediately who they are talking > about. They all matter to me and they are all special. Isn't it amazing how you develop that recall? The vets at the hospital I used to work at used to be amazed that they could ask me where a certain cat was ("Fluffy Johnson") and I could tell them the cage number, even if the cat had just come in. Then they would ask me what the cat looked like and what it was in for just to test me. :) > I have to trust that there was a good reason for turning down these homes. > Perhaps Monica's standards are higher than mine, but in the end, > Conan/Dylan will be in the best possible home. It's quite a stretch to > accuse her of animal abuse, IMHO. Inflammatory and libelous is what it is. -L. > Isn't it amazing how you develop that recall? The vets at the hospital > I used to work at used to be amazed that they could ask me where a > certain cat was ("Fluffy Johnson") and I could tell them the cage > number, even if the cat had just come in. Then they would ask me what > the cat looked like and what it was in for just to test me. :) When someone mentions a past shelter cat, the first thing I usually picture is which cage they were in at the shelter. Since I do (did) the intakes, I usually know the cat's entire story from how they got there to the adoption. -Kelly > When someone mentions a past shelter cat, the first thing I usually picture > is which cage they were in at the shelter. Since I do (did) the intakes, I > usually know the cat's entire story from how they got there to the adoption. > > -Kelly That's the sweet part about doing adoptions, I think. Some cats stick out so much in my memory, though, moreso than others. I used to have a written record/photo of every cat I worked with doing adoptions. When we had the hurricane in NC, my basement flooded and I lost it along with some othe irreplaceable items. I never started doing it again, but I think maybe I will now that I have a digital. -L. > Have you ever thought that the emails possibly are sent to Monica > because she is the one who has multiple-time-daily access to an > account? Given the newspaper ads, it doesn't look like there *have* been any e-mails, apart from the ones from the members of the group. Conan may well be a lovely cat, but usually once a day is sufficient to handle the blizzard of e-mails from a "cat available" ad. Based on two years of adopting out adult cats, an inquiry once a week will be doing amazingly well. And honestly, if I were looking for a cat in Southern California, I really doubt I'd take the trouble to e-mail Canada to get one. There are easier ways. > And honestly, if I were looking for a cat in Southern California, I > really doubt I'd take the trouble to e-mail Canada to get one. There > are easier ways. Then you must not be all that interested in the cat, and that's the kind of person who shouldn't be adopting him in the first place. Besides, I suspect not everyone knows that .ca means that it is a Canadian email address. -L. "Then you must not be all that interested in the cat, and that's the kind of person who shouldn't be adopting him in the first place" *I'm* not interested in adopting the cat at all. I'm full up with my pair and anyway, I prefer female cats to males. But were I interested in a friendly, energetic orange tabby, I can find one at a shelter any day of the week. I don't need to run this gauntlet of e-mailing Canada. What's interesting and compelling about the cat is his story, which was displayed here and garnered some interest, but that is not being made available in the classifieds. He's just another youngish, nice cat that's homeless. One of hundreds. If adopting him is a nightmare of background checks and long-distance communication, it's going to take a while. And I hope those footing the bill are prepared for that. >Besides, I suspect not everyone knows that .ca means that it is a >Canadian email address. Most people with a brain do. And I'd really like the cat to be adopted by somebody with one of those. > "Then you must not be all that interested in the cat, and that's the > kind of person who shouldn't be adopting him in the first place" > > *I'm* not interested in adopting the cat at all. You know what I meant. If the mere fact that the email address is from Canada is *that* much a turn off to you (generic you), you're not all that interested in the cat. If I was interested in the cat I wouldn't care if the email address originated in Zimbabwe. I might be curious about why, but that's about it. >I'm full up with my > pair and > anyway, I prefer female cats to males. But were I interested in a > friendly, energetic orange tabby, I can find one at a shelter any day > of the week. > I don't need to run this gauntlet of e-mailing Canada. Oh, it's *so* hard to send an email. <roll of eyeballs> >What's > interesting and compelling about the cat is his story, which was > displayed here and garnered some interest, but that is not being made > available in the classifieds. He's just another youngish, nice cat > that's homeless. One of hundreds. If adopting him is a nightmare of > background checks and long-distance communication, I don't know about you but it is just as easy to make a call to Europe or Canada as it is to call nextdoor, for me. I do it all the time. And no one should be placing any cat unless they check out vet records and reference, as well as check out the living quarters. Anyone who balks at having that done isn't a suitable placement, anyway. >it's going to take a > while. And I hope those footing the bill are prepared for that. Yeah, I'll bet you're *really* worried about those "footing the bill". -L. >> Considering his past, and the fact that he would have been in a lovely >> home with [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > -Kelly Kelly: In Bloody Mary you are dealing with a woman who is off her rocker. You cannot expect Bloody Mary to evaluate any situation with adult rationality. Clearly Bloody Mary has deep seated abandonment issues she is working through. Who will hold them responsible and how? > Dan Mahoney, his wife Nancy Mahoney, and Monica Towles will be held > responsible for what happens to this cat. > Who will hold them responsible and how? Don't you like surprises? >> Dan Mahoney, his wife Nancy Mahoney, and Monica Towles will be held >> responsible for what happens to this cat. > I have been following some of the messages concerning Monica with a > combination of sadness and anger. Monica has a long history on the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > dedication to the welfare of cats - all cats, not just her own. She has been > consistent in her posting and her high values. Mary, I've said things in support of Monica and I've said things in support of Mary and her group. Neither "faction" is evil. Dan, however, was duplicitous and betrayed Mary, then lied to her, and then avoided her. I also said things in support of Dan because I've read his posts for awhile now, too, and he seems very nice. However, personally, I think he was clearly wrong in this situation (people can think others are wrong without declaring war on them). I realize neither you nor Monica wish to address this as you feel prior relationships are not Monica's concern. I even agree that may be true. But a great deal of the negative stuff going on here is because of what Dan did rather than what Monica did/is doing. I also have to say that, although I don't know the specific reasons why Greg in SD and Meghan's sister were denied, it does seem a shame to have Conan/Dylan still sitting in a cage. I realize Monica wants to be very careful and Conan should have a forever home but how well can Monica control that from Canada? She is not going to be able to meet the prospective adopters face to face nor see their homes. How well can one get to know someone through emails and the telephone? It sounds as though Dan is who is going to have to make the ultimate decision. Monica can screen who she thinks is appropriate but then what? They just go pick Conan up from the kennel and no one meets them face to face or does Dan meet them face to face and, if so, is he qualified to make the ultimate decision? Neither sounds like too wonderful of a screening process. After all, Dan has 6 cats and has had financial troubles of late. I doubt if Monica would find him a satisfactory adopter and yet he gets to decide if someone else is? And it seems as though now newspaper ads are being run to find Conan/Dylan a home. Is that a good way to find a quality adopter? The ad said an adoption fee would be charged but that means nothing. Crappy shelters charge adoption fees, too, and scummy people pay them willingly and still abandon the cat later. Charging an adoption fee and screening someone on the phone is not going to guarantee Conan a good home. I think people are getting worried that someone is paying the boarding for him but that can't continue for months/years and eventually standards may be loosened and someone who isn't a good adopter will start to sound pretty good. Anyone can lie about their house, their other pets, their history, their job, their financial situation. I certainly think Monica cares about cats and I have enjoyed her posts for years but she is a loooooong way away from Conan and that's not a very good position to be in to make an accurate assessment of a potential adopter. That's what has people concerned, people who have cared about Conan prior to Monica's involvement with him (oh, and Dan's duplicity, of course). Candace <snip> I realize Monica wants to be > very careful and Conan should have a forever home but how well can > Monica control that from Canada? She is not going to be able to meet [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > qualified to make the ultimate decision? Neither sounds like too > wonderful of a screening process. Have you ever thought that the emails possibly are sent to Monica because she is the one who has multiple-time-daily access to an account? >After all, Dan has 6 cats and has > had financial troubles of late. I doubt if Monica would find him a > satisfactory adopter and yet he gets to decide if someone else is? How do you know Dan is doing anything? Dan may have no involvement at this point. > And it seems as though now newspaper ads are being run to find > Conan/Dylan a home. Is that a good way to find a quality adopter? Yes, many times it is. >The > ad said an adoption fee would be charged but that means nothing. > Crappy shelters charge adoption fees, too, and scummy people pay them > willingly and still abandon the cat later. Charging an adoption fee > and screening someone on the phone is not going to guarantee Conan a > good home. But doing background checks, interviewing vets and visiting homes can tell you a lot of info, and these things are generally done if the candidate passes the email and phone screen. I think people are getting worried that someone is paying > the boarding for him but that can't continue for months/years and > eventually standards may be loosened and someone who isn't a good > adopter will start to sound pretty good. Anyone can lie about their > house, their other pets, their history, their job, their financial > situation. Sure they can, but people who have done this a long time start to know what to look for. Just like I posted a couple of days ago - a good adoptor will let people open up and talk about themselves, not spoon feed them questions that they can give the "right" answers to. > I certainly think Monica cares about cats and I have > enjoyed her posts for years but she is a loooooong way away from Conan > and that's not a very good position to be in to make an accurate > assessment of a potential adopter. You can be sure there are other advocates involved. Monica isn't that reckless. -L. > How do you know Dan is doing anything? Dan may have no involvement at > this point. What I want to know is why won't he clear his name? > Sure they can, but people who have done this a long time start to know > what to look for. Just like I posted a couple of days ago - a good > adoptor will let people open up and talk about themselves, not spoon > feed them questions that they can give the "right" answers to. Exactly! They have to talk, person to person, to find out what a person is about. Emailing or deciding things from usenet is not enough. Rhonda > > How do you know Dan is doing anything? Dan may have no involvement at > > this point. > > What I want to know is why won't he clear his name? Um, possibly because the psycho bitch from hell posts 10 posts a day harassing him? Just a guess. > > Sure they can, but people who have done this a long time start to know > > what to look for. Just like I posted a couple of days ago - a good [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Exactly! They have to talk, person to person, to find out what a person > is about. Emailing or deciding things from usenet is not enough. Sigh. Email is just a screening tool. If things pan out on email, phone calls are exchanged, and then it goes from there. It's not an uncommon practice. -L. >>> How do you know Dan is doing anything? Dan may have no involvement at >>> this point. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Um, possibly because the psycho bitch from hell posts 10 posts a day > harassing him? Just a guess. snip > -L Ah, that be Bloody Bollocks Mary. >> How do you know Dan is doing anything? Dan may have no involvement at >> this point. > > What I want to know is why won't he clear his name? snip > Rhonda Lady ... what's it to ya? Don't you have a job to go to? > > Exactly! They have to talk, person to person, to find out what a person > is about. Emailing or deciding things from usenet is not enough. > > Rhonda>>. In the UK a lot of Rescues ask for a vet reference, do shelters in the US do that? Alison >>> Exactly! They have to talk, person to person, to find out what a > person [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the US do that? > Alison The adopting party may be asked but it is not a requirement that you have a veterinary already. >You know what I meant. If the mere fact that the email address is from >Canada is *that* much a turn off to you (generic you), you're not all >that interested in the cat. If I was interested in the cat I wouldn't >care if the email address originated in Zimbabwe. I might be curious >about why, but that's about it We went over this. Explain to me why I'm so compellingly interested in this particular cat above all other cats when a) I've never met him b) he is described to me only as a friendly, energetic, orange tabby and c) instead of going to a shelter and seeing him, I must engage in a long-distance e-mail interrogation about the size of my house before I've even met the cat. It's a gauntlet, plain and simple. And what is the motivation to go through all of that for a cat I've never met? The only motivation is being touched by his story and that variable has been removed with the careless elimination of all people associated with this group. Now the cat is simply just another cat competing with the thousands in the shelters in Socal and he is less visible and more difficult to adopt to one of the insufficient number of available homes. >And no one should be placing any cat unless they check out vet >records and reference, as well as check out the living quarters. Well, that eliminates all municipal shelters and most no-kill shelters where, at best, folks fill out an application, do a brief interview or counseling session, perhaps provide a vet reference which is never actually called, and take a cat home. At least at a shelter, you can watch the person interact with the cat, which IME is usually the best indicator of a good adopter. >Yeah, I'll bet you're *really* worried about those "footing the bill". I am. At $400 a month board, there is definitely a clock ticking for him and there are currently no leads, just a couple of ads from out of state. After all this, it would sadden me if funds run out and the cat ends up being returned to Phillip or added as the 25th addition to Megan's stable in her apartment (as happened to Brian's cat when he was unable to be privately placed). Those would be sad ends to this adventure. I wish them luck, but what I'm seeing isn't looking all that promising to date. snip >> And no one should be placing any cat unless they check out vet records >> and reference, as well as check out the living quarters. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > watch the person interact with the cat, which IME is usually the best > indicator of a good adopter. Just imagine ... >I< qualified twice and was encouraged to adopt a companion for both Conan and Omar. Doesn't that just frost you! ;^) Like they say in real estate ... location location location. >> Yeah, I'll bet you're *really* worried about those "footing the bill". > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > stable in her apartment (as happened to Brian's cat when he was unable > to be privately placed). Those would be sad ends to this adventure. Why do you say that? Sad compared to placement in the nebulously defined "forever home?" > I wish them luck, but what I'm seeing isn't looking all that promising > to date. You will be told nothing before the adoption is complete. Outside interference is not welcome. > snip >>> And no one should be placing any cat unless they check out vet records [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > companion for both Conan and Omar. Doesn't that just frost you! ;^) > Like they say in real estate ... location location location. I wouldn't brag about it Phlip. Around here the municipal shelters will give a cat to anything that lives and breathes. >> snip >>>> And no one should be placing any cat unless they check out vet records [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I wouldn't brag about it Phlip. Around here the municipal shelters will > give a cat to anything that lives and breathes. In fact, that is not true and certainly around here. You forget why adoption rates soared from $15 to $100 (on average) after cat and dog eating Asians arrived here. The attendent who supervises the visit you have with the prospective pet has power to queer the adoption. location location location. > > I wouldn't brag about it Phlip. Around here the municipal shelters will > > give a cat to anything that lives and breathes. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > arrived here. The attendent who supervises the visit you have with the > prospective pet has power to queer the adoption. Mat Dai. Sherry > Mat Dai. > > Sherry Sherry, is that Vietnamese for "Phillip you stupid, racist pig."? -L. >> Mat Dai. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -L. Regardless, the adoption rates were raised in large part to put an end to the practice. You're in a America now. Dogs and cats are pets and ... you may not cook them in the middle of your living room. Say what you like, this was a "problem" during the early Vietnamese arrivals here in the '70's during the founding of "Little Saigon" which is the southern part of Garden Grove. Only a few miles from the OC Animal Shelter I might add. <SNIP> >> Sherry, is that Vietnamese for "Phillip you stupid, racist pig."? >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >during the founding of "Little Saigon" which is the southern part of Garden >Grove. Only a few miles from the OC Animal Shelter I might add. http://www.snopes.com/critters/edibles/tourist.htm#chinese http://www.snopes.com/critters/edibles/tourist.htm#chinese > In article <qh6Be.9434$aY6.529@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Philip > says... <SNIP> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > http://www.snopes.com/critters/edibles/tourist.htm#chinese > http://www.snopes.com/critters/edibles/tourist.htm#chinese eq; Your point is? >> In article <qh6Be.9434$aY6.529@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Philip >> says... <SNIP> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >eq; Your point is? Direct hit! >>> In article <qh6Be.9434$aY6.529@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Philip >>> says... <SNIP> [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Direct hit! Since I'm still standing, what was you/the target? LOL >>>> In article <qh6Be.9434$aY6.529@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>, Philip >>>> says... <SNIP> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >Since I'm still standing, what was you/the target? LOL It was a virtual hit, as is everything that transpires here, please keep up and try to seperate the real world from the windmills you joust. eq > In article <_DbBe.22368$eM6.10506@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>, > Philip [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > eq Anything "virtual" by current definition is not real. Ya need some more tokens for the arcade machine. LOL <SNIP> >>>> Direct hit! >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Anything "virtual" by current definition is not real. Ya need some more >tokens for the arcade machine. LOL The direct hit was figurative. It was also virtual in the context of it needing to be explained to you that it wasn't a physical blow. Everybody else reading it knew you weren't physically hit except you apparently, stopping and looking around the room for damage. Rather, it was a blow to your credibility, in backing up Lyn's statement that you were a racist for implying the stereotype of Asians being wholesale cat/dog eaters. The link I provided intelligently challenged that perception. We're all waiting for you to supply a counterpoint link to support your original statement. eq >> Mat Dai. >> >> Sherry > > Sherry, is that Vietnamese for "Phillip you stupid, racist pig."? Oh, my. Lynnie has fallen out of love with Philip. What a shame. I thought it was a match made in heaven. > > Mat Dai. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -L. And this is the same Phillip you were just defending and castagating us for using "Ageism" against??? Hmmmm????? Are we singing a different tune now, Mommy Dearest????????????? > location location location. > > >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Mat Dai. ROTFL! Correction: Du Ma Mat Di > > location location location. > > > >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Correction: Du Ma Mat Dai >I am. At $400 a month board, there is definitely a clock ticking for > him [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I wish them luck, but what I'm seeing isn't looking all that promising > to date. This is very sad :( > >You know what I meant. If the mere fact that the email address is from > >Canada is *that* much a turn off to you (generic you), you're not all [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > long-distance e-mail interrogation about the size of my house before > I've even met the cat. If someone is interested in the cat, they'll send an email asking for more info. An exchange begins - a friendly exchange. There is nothing remotely "interrogative" about it. If that's too much "bother" for you, how the hell do you expect anyone to think that you will get your lazy a.s up off the couch to feed the cat? > >And no one should be placing any cat unless they check out vet >records and reference, as well as check out the living quarters. > > Well, that eliminates all municipal shelters and most no-kill shelters > where, at best, folks fill out an application, do a brief interview or > counseling session, perhaps provide a vet reference which is never > actually called, and take a cat home. Not in the no-kills I have worked at nor the Humane Societies. If anything the no-kills are more fastidious. >At least at a shelter, you can > watch the person interact with the cat, which IME is usually the best > indicator > of a good adopter. No one said someone couldn't visit Conan or wouldn't be required to. Sheesh! > >Yeah, I'll bet you're *really* worried about those "footing the bill". > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > state. > After all this, it would sadden me if funds run out I doubt you need to worry about that. >and the cat ends up > being returned to Phillip Riiiight. That's about as likely as Mary getting placed with the cat. >or added as the 25th addition to Megan's > stable in her apartment (as happened to Brian's cat when he was unable > to be privately placed). Those would be sad ends to this adventure. What the hell does Megan have to do with anything? You're whacked and grasping at straws. > I wish them luck, but what I'm seeing isn't looking all that promising > to date. And what have you done recently to help place him? If you are "so worried"? You supposedly do rescue in the Bay area. It sure is a heck of a lot easier for you to dig up leads than it is others from out of state. You and your ilk sure like to criticise but as far as I can tell haven't done a Goddammned thing to help place the cat. Oh, wait. You organized a rescue that was doomed in the first place because of Mary's psychosis and OCD. I forgot. -L. >> >You know what I meant. If the mere fact that the email address is from >> >Canada is *that* much a turn off to you (generic you), you're not all [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > Oh, wait. You organized a rescue that was doomed in the first place > because of Mary's psychosis and OCD. I forgot. Thank you for that diagnois, Dr. Jonathan's lame-a.s Mama and Will's Oregon I'm Paying-For-The-Milk-But-What-A-Sour Cow maid. Neanwhile, we know from your posting history that the only individual cats that matter to you are your own. Do you ever stop doing this? How wrong do you have to be before you give up? >If someone is interested in the cat, they'll send an email asking for >more info. An exchange begins - a friendly exchange. We saw the exchange with Meghan's sister. Some of us saw the exchange with the San Diego adopter. Friendly is not the description that comes to mind. Both potential adopters were upset. Both met or are going to meet the adoption requirements at local shelters. Both have or had long-lived and apparently quite happy indoor cats. >There is nothing remotely "interrogative" about it. Why don't we ask those who were interrogated? As I said, the only people interested enough in adopting the cat were treated like crap. >If that's too much "bother" for you, how the hell do you expect anyone to >think that you will get your lazy a.s up off the couch to feed the cat? It's far more bother than going to my local shelter where I can also find a friendly and energetic young cat. That's a fact. >Not in the no-kills I have worked at nor the Humane Societies. If >anything the no-kills are more fastidious. At least 10 people have written in to state that ther vet references were not checked when they adopted. They certainly did not submit to a background check nor provide personal references. I will add that I have adopted from both a humane society and a no-kill in two different states and in both I simply filled out an application and had a brief interview. I can't imagine the level of funding and staffing required to perform a background check and call personal references for every adopter is realistic for most shelters, which are usually flat broke. And both adopters turned down were accepted at their local shelters to adopt a cat despite being found sub-par from these rescuers. >No one said someone couldn't visit Conan or wouldn't be required to. Under whose observation? Dan's? > I doubt you need to worry about that. I am worried. Believe what you like, but it's naive to expect that funds will be provided for boarding indefinitely. The bill is $200 and climbing. >Riiiight. That's about as likely as Mary getting placed with the cat. Hope not. But I wouldn't be shocked. He's going to have to end up somewhere. Phillip will, though, probably be unable to resist gloating about it on this group, so at least we'll know what happened. >What the hell does Megan have to do with anything? You're whacked >and grasping at straws. It's an example of an attempted private placement that didn't work and resulted in a sub-par placement for the cat in a living situation that, honestly, doesn't meet my standards. One cat in a one bedroom apartment - okay. 20+ cats in a one bedroom apartment - not okay. I guess as long as the cats reasonably safe and cared for, then it's better than nothing, but it just goes to show that attempts at private placement don't always work out. Other than that, I dunno - although Megan did send me a long, rambling private e-mail about the evils of Charlie Wilkes prior to Conan's cat-napping. >And what have you done recently to help place him? If you are "so >worried"? You supposedly do rescue in the Bay area. It sure is a >heck of a lot easier for you to dig up leads than it is others from out >of state. I tried to place him in San Diego or Seattle and those efforts were thwarted. Frankly, if I find a good home for a cat in the Bay Area, I'm going to use it for the kitties in my no-kill. They are my first priority. Conan has several homes offered to him, even now. If someone wants to keep him in a boarding facility rather than place him in one of those homes, that's fundamentally their problem. I will send a lead if I happen to come across one in Socal, but that's unlikely as it's 1,000 miles south. >You and your ilk sure like to criticise but as far as I can tell >haven't done a Goddammned thing to help place the cat. He'd be in San Diego without the interference. Those who interfere with a plan without another plan ...... often end up needing help. >Oh, wait. You organized a rescue that was doomed in the first place >because of Mary's psychosis and OCD. I forgot. Delaying a cat getting a home because Mary bugs you. To tell you the truth, that seems to be exactly what's going on here and it is pretty pathetic. > At least 10 people have written in to state that ther vet references > were not checked when they adopted. They certainly did not submit to a > background check nor provide personal references. I will add that I > have adopted from both a humane society and a no-kill in two different > states and in both I simply filled out an application and had a brief > interview. Luna came from Chicago's humane society. I was "interviewed". Fortunately for Luna, I met the requirements. There was never any follow up. EVER. Pam, #11 >It's far more bother than going to my local shelter where I can also >find a friendly and energetic young cat. That's a fact. Very true. It is far easier to look at online ads with photos (petfinder and craiglist) or head out to the local shelter and take a look. Newspaper ads have no info or photos. They are dull and don't do much to grab at your heart. >At least 10 people have written in to state that ther vet references >were not checked when they adopted. They certainly did not submit to a >background check nor provide personal references. I will add that I >have adopted from both a humane society and a no-kill in two different >states and in both I simply filled out an application and had a brief >interview. All 3 of my sister's 3 cats were adopted, and she was acceptable all 3 times. Booper was 11 years ago, and she shared a small house with 2 roomates. Whisper was only a year ago, and she was living at the same place she is now. And of course Chester on the 4th of July. None of them asked for references of financial statements, and all of them are doing well. Update with Chester. He is doing great. He is very friendly, talks a lot, and has made friends with Whisper. They now curl up together. He had an early miss with the litter box and used the laundry basket instead. Whisper was harrassing him, regardless of which box he tried to use. So, my sister took a box into the bathroom and sat with him until he went. She had to guard him a few more times out in the rest of the house until Whisper got over it. That was the only problem, and that's to be expected. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > >It's far more bother than going to my local shelter where I can also > >find a friendly and energetic young cat. That's a fact. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Update with Chester. He is doing great. He is very friendly, talks a > lot, and has made friends with Whisper. They now curl up together. Great news! > He had an early miss with the litter box and used the laundry basket > instead. Whisper was harrassing him, regardless of which box he tried > to use. So, my sister took a box into the bathroom and sat with him > until he went. She had to guard him a few more times out in the rest > of the house until Whisper got over it. That was the only problem, > and that's to be expected. Your sister sounds very patient and caring, Chester is very lucky > -- > Meghan & the Zoo Crew > Equine and Pet Photography > http://www.zoocrewphoto.com Great news, Meghan. That is a very happy story. I'm glad Chester and your sister found each other. Rhonda > Update with Chester. He is doing great. He is very friendly, talks a > lot, and has made friends with Whisper. They now curl up together. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Equine and Pet Photography > http://www.zoocrewphoto.com >> I doubt you need to worry about that. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > somewhere. Phillip will, though, probably be unable to resist gloating > about it on this group, so at least we'll know what happened. Ohhhhh BABY .... you can take that to the bank!!! Hahahhahhaa Can you imagine the pleasure it would bring me to slam the phone down on Bloody Mary? The joy should add a decade to my life! snip >>Oh, wait. You organized a rescue that was doomed in the first place >>because of Mary's psychosis and OCD. I forgot. > > Delaying a cat getting a home because Mary bugs you. To tell you the > truth, that seems to be exactly what's going on here and it is pretty > pathetic. It may seem but ... is not so. The world does not revolve around Mary. >If someone is interested in the cat, they'll send an email asking for >more info. An exchange begins - a friendly exchange. There is nothing >remotely "interrogative" about it. If that's too much "bother" for >you, how the hell do you expect anyone to think that you will get your >lazy a.s up off the couch to feed the cat? I think the question really should be: What is going to get people to respond to the ad? Honestly. A 3-4 year old orange male tabby. Needs room to jump. Doesn't sound very enticing. There are a lot of those around. On craigslist and petfinder, the ads can have more description and photos. And that is what people respond to. A newspaper ad doesn't give much to go on. Rather than post a email address, post a URL to some photos and a longer description. Somethin to entice the person looking. Otherwise, they will just continue on to the next ad. Nevermind a guantlet, you have to get them to take the first step, which is to be interested enough to ask more. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com >>If someone is interested in the cat, they'll send an email asking for >>more info. An exchange begins - a friendly exchange. There is nothing [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > What is going to get people to respond to the ad? Honestly. A 3-4 year > old orange male tabby. Needs room to jump. snip >> -- > Meghan & the Zoo Crew > Equine and Pet Photography > http://www.zoocrewphoto.com Likes water. Very personable. Calm disposition. Box trained. >> > Exactly! They have to talk, person to person, to find out what a > person [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the US do that? > Alison Don't know about all shelters but most rescue groups that I know of ask for a vet reference and a couple of personal references and check them. I haven't adopted from the SPCA in years but last time I did they asked for references but never called them. W >> > Exactly! They have to talk, person to person, to find out what a > person [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > the US do that? > Alison Some do, but there is no single standard. I did supply veterinary references when I adopted Duffy. MaryL Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e > "Alison" <Alison@XYZallofus2.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message > > In the UK a lot of Rescues ask for a vet reference, do shelters in > > the US do that? > > Alison > Some do, but there is no single standard. I did supply veterinary > references when I adopted Duffy. When I adopted Mickey and Meesha, they called my vet to check me out. This place was a rescue facility that rescues abused animals. Lauren See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe >> When I adopted Mickey and Meesha, they called my vet to check me out. > This place was a rescue facility that rescues abused animals. > > Lauren > > See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe>.>> Our local RSPCA checks vets refs though I know them and they didnt need to check me when I adopted Dibby the dog. Kim was a stray, my own rescue . The two bunnies and my latest adition to the family Alistair the mouse came from small private rescues advertised on a rescue forum. Even though I knew them on- line , I was still homed checked though they didn't ask for a vets ref. Here's Alistair http://makeashorterlink.com/?O1B95196B Alison:) > Here's Alistair > http://makeashorterlink.com/?O1B95196B Waaah!!! He is so cute! How does he get along with your cat? Lauren See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe > > Here's Alistair > > http://makeashorterlink.com/?O1B95196B [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe>. Thanks he is cute. They've not actually met. His cage is in the spare room with the bunnies, I keep the door shut most of the time. Alison > > How do you know Dan is doing anything? Dan may have no involvement at > > this point. > > What I want to know is why won't he clear his name? Have you considered the fact that ANYTHING Dan says on this ng will be torn apart, dissected, rejected, and then will become yet another conspiracy theory. If I were Dan (and I'm not) I would do just as he's doing, keep my mouth tightly shut and not say or do anything to get the nutters even more agitated. Personally, I think he's acting brilliantly not getting involved because you just can't win with some people, and we've seen clearly who those people are on this ng. Marjorie > > Sure they can, but people who have done this a long time start to know > > what to look for. Just like I posted a couple of days ago - a good [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Rhonda >> > How do you know Dan is doing anything? Dan may have no involvement at >> > this point. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >because you just can't win with some people, and we've seen clearly who >those people are on this ng. I don't think Rhonda is a "nutter," and I don't think anyone else thinks Rhonda is a "nutter." She is unhappy because it appears Dan deceived her. It's not a conspiracy theory -- it's about one or two specific emails from a single individual whom she trusted. Was he truthful, or was he not truthful, and if he was not truthful, why? Charlie >>>>How do you know Dan is doing anything? Dan may have no involvement at >>>>this point. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I don't think Rhonda is a "nutter," and I don't think anyone else > thinks Rhonda is a "nutter." Seriously. There are plenty of us who are not "nutters." I would love to know what is going on and I have really not made any judgments about Monica's group. I have some doubts about it all that have only really come up in the latter part of this whole debacle...but that is irrelevent. I emailed Philip for informaton, but I got no response. It's all fine and well. I care(d) about Conan. I expressed interest. I was willing (still am) to fork out a nice chunk of change to help out. I was (still am) dealing with my own health issues, so I could not quite hop on a plane to L.A. to rescue Conan myself. Oh well. I've given up. I'll just worry about my own two cats. :) >> I don't think Rhonda is a "nutter," and I don't think anyone else >> thinks Rhonda is a "nutter." [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that is irrelevent. I emailed Philip for informaton, but I got no > response. snip I have a white list for email acceptance. There is a good chance I missed/deleted you correspondance. > On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:06:54 -0400, "animzmirot" <margalitc@yahoo.com> >>Have you considered the fact that ANYTHING Dan says on this ng will be torn >>apart, dissected, rejected, and then will become yet another conspiracy [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > single individual whom she trusted. Was he truthful, or was he not > truthful, and if he was not truthful, why? Thanks for coming to my aid, Charlie. I completely missed the "nutter." That gave me the best chuckle I've had all day! Rhonda >> On Tue, 12 Jul 2005 16:06:54 -0400, "animzmirot" <margalitc@yahoo.com> > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Thanks for coming to my aid, Charlie. I completely missed the "nutter." > That gave me the best chuckle I've had all day! Pfft. Not only is Marjorie not the sharpest knife in the drawer, they tend to keep the sharp knives away from her. ;) > "Rhonda" <san-toki@attremovethis.net> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Marjorie You might be right, Marjorie, his time to come clean might be past. This all started AFTER he would not answer any respectful emails, or questions on the group. He clammed up immediately, then the frenzy started, so it might now be too late for him. Rhonda >> "Rhonda" <san-toki@attremovethis.net> wrote in message >>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > on the group. He clammed up immediately, then the frenzy started, so it > might now be too late for him. We need nothing from him except for him to go and get Conan and find him a good home or contact one of the people who want him. There is no longer any question about what happened. It is all documented, from the shelter to Four Paws. >>> "Rhonda" <san-toki@attremovethis.net> wrote in message >>>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > There is no longer any question about what happened. It is all > documented, from the shelter to Four Paws. You have paperwork copy with signatures and official stamps as proof? Of course you do not. > > We need nothing from him except for him to go and get Conan and > find him a good home or contact one of the people who want him.>>. There's no point in moving him until he has a good home. > > There is no longer any question about what happened. It is all > documented, from the shelter to Four Paws. >.. Have you definite proof he is at Four paws? Alison > Have you considered the fact that ANYTHING Dan says on this ng will be torn > apart, dissected, rejected, and then will become yet another conspiracy [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Marjorie Weeellll They took all the fun out of it >> Have you considered the fact that ANYTHING Dan says on this ng will be >> torn [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > They took all the fun out of it Wake up, boy, and think about what you're saying. Dan can "win" any time. All he has to do is get that cat out of that cage and into one of the good homes offered to him. Dan is technically the owner of that cat. In news:ThFAe.113936$yV4.97240@okepread03, <carstan101@yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER>MaryL stated unanimously: > I have been following some of the messages concerning Monica > with a [quoted text clipped - 92 lines] > > MaryL This has been a petty flame war for a MONTH. > This has been a petty flame war for a MONTH. And in that time you have become quite the flame-master. Congrats? >> This has been a petty flame war for a MONTH. > > And in that time you have become quite the flame-master. > Congrats? Babe ... old dogs do adapt to new conditions better than you think. I wasn't always this way. >>> This has been a petty flame war for a MONTH. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Babe ... old dogs do adapt to new conditions better than you think. I >wasn't always this way. And pretty soon, I'll bet karma runs over your dogma...... <equalizer> > And pretty soon, I'll bet karma runs over your dogma...... haha Say...Where is that post you made about the vintage 1936 blood, Tampons and mortal wounds..You deleted it didn't you. It was a stunning piece of work it was, A thing of beauty. >>>> This has been a petty flame war for a MONTH. >>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > And pretty soon, I'll bet karma runs over your dogma...... May your next cat scan be carried out by a hungry lion. >>>>> This has been a petty flame war for a MONTH. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >May your next cat scan be carried out by a hungry lion. Nice try but -- horseshoes and hand grenades. >>>>>> This has been a petty flame war for a MONTH. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Nice try but -- horseshoes and hand grenades. > > This has been a petty flame war for a MONTH. > > And in that time you have become quite the flame-master. > Congrats? More like a barber with a hair dryer >> This has been a petty flame war for a MONTH. > >And in that time you have become quite the flame-master. >Congrats? Would that be the brand of crematorium ovens used at the OC Crematorium? eq <SNIP> >This has been a petty flame war for a MONTH. Which is the entire reason you're here -- you live for it and it's the only thing you have left. You've driven your family away from you, this IS your family...... eq >I have been following some of the messages concerning Monica with a >combination of sadness and anger. That's too bad, Mary. I have been reading them with a combination of amusement and hearty satisfaction. >Monica has a long history on the >newsgroup, and many of you should be well aware that a cat's best interest >is always foremost on her mind. Bah. Anyone can say that. Actions speak louder than words. I can't see that Monica has done anything positive for this cat. He'd be in a fine home now if not for her. >You can tell a lot about a person by that >person's posting history, and Monica has always shown an uncompromising >dedication to the welfare of cats - all cats, not just her own. She has been >consistent in her posting and her high values. She spews high-minded rhetoric. So what? Lot's of weak-minded people say the right things on Usenet, because they need validation from their peers. [snip] >Vilifying someone who clearly has Conan's best interest at heart is >something I simply don't understand. Monica's supporters were quick to vilify me. I can take it. But guess what? I can also dish it out. >I'm glad that Monica's group is now >looking out for Conan's welfare. This has become a petty flame war, and >Monica is wise not to let herself become embroiled in answering every >question that someone on this group raises. This is especially true if the answers are what everyone thinks they are. Charlie Thank you, Candace. That was a well-stated post. My feelings exactly and you said it very well. -T Would you mind keeping the soap opera in context (in the appropriate thread). Or at least label your post off-topic since it is not about cats. > Path: newssvr33.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm06.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!cox.net!news-xfer.cox.net!p01!okepread03.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail > From: "MaryL" <carstan101 yahoo.comTAKE-OUT-THE-LITTER> [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > Vilifying someone who clearly has Conan's best interest at heart is > something I simply don't understand. I'm glad that Monica's group is now > looking out for Conan's welfare. This has become a petty flame war, and > Monica is wise not to let herself become embroiled in answering every [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > MaryL > Would you mind keeping the soap opera in context (in the > appropriate thread). Or at least label your post off-topic since > it is not about cats. How do ya figure? Didn't you used to have more constructive posts than your incessant netnannying or am I confusing you with someone else? Candace Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! > I have been following some of the messages concerning Monica with a > combination of sadness and anger. Thank you MaryL. You have reiterated everything I have said over the last couple of weeks. Monica and her group will do well by Conan and he will be placed in a loving, caring home that is a *forever* home. -L. > I have been following some of the messages concerning Monica with a > combination of sadness and anger. Monica has a long history on the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > [..] > >MaryL> I agree with alot of what you've said. I hope Monica manages to find Conan a home soon. If all the people that have offered homes for Conan adopted another cat from their local rescue then those cats will have been saved too as well as Conan. Alison >> I have been following some of the messages concerning Monica with a >> combination of sadness and anger. Monica has a long history on the [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > as well as Conan. > Alison Awww. Did you think of that all by yourself? > "> > > > I agree with alot of what you've said. I hope Monica manages to find [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Awww. Did you think of that all by yourself?>>> It's a valid point, though I expect there's not enough milage in it for you . Alison |
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