Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / July 2005
L-Lysine dose?
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Laurie - 05 Jul 2005 19:20 GMT Hello all, I've got some stray kittens who came to me with their eyes glued shut with green mucus, runny noses, covered with fleas, and practically bald from ringworm. They're on a round of "Clavamox" after finishing a round of "Amoxi-drops". They're also being dipped once a week with Sulfer and Lime, and they had some triple antibiotic eye ointment which they finished off. The kittens no longer have green goo in their eyes, but their eyes run and run all day with clear fluid. People keep telling me to give them some L-Lysine but nobody seems to know the dose. The vets won't tell me because it's not a prescription and they don't sell it. I've got some here (it's a white powder) that a woman from the SPCA gave me but all she said is to sprinkle some in their food. But how much? How often? And for how long? Does anyone have experience with L-Lysine and can anyone tell me how to use it, or if I should use it? I've got a 4 year old cat who has a lifelong chronic runny eye from when she had a nasty nasty cold as an underage orphan, and I don't want the same thing to happen to these 2 babies. She's been to 2 eye doctors and had water run through her tear duct and it wasn't blocked so all the vets can tell me is it's a permanent virus living in her eye. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, ~ Laurie ~
Mary - 05 Jul 2005 19:51 GMT > Hello all, I've got some stray kittens who came to me with their eyes > glued shut with green mucus, runny noses, covered with fleas, and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > People keep telling me to give them some L-Lysine but nobody seems to > know the dose. Laurie--it look like 250 mgs might be right. See the link below:
http://www.vetinfo.com/cherpes.html
http://www.paws-and-effect.com/pawsandeffect96.html
For many more sites:
http://tinyurl.com/dysr7
Good luck with the babies!
Kalyahna - 05 Jul 2005 20:06 GMT > > Hello all, I've got some stray kittens who came to me with their eyes > > glued shut with green mucus, runny noses, covered with fleas, and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Good luck with the babies! It's downright saintly of you to take on those kittens! Most people would be put off by URI - the vast majority of the rest would refuse because of the ringworm.
We use 250mgs twice a day (per kitten) mixed into canned food (and 500mgs twice a day for adults). You can buy big things of it in your local grocery story in the vitamins and minerals section. Pick up a pill cutter and a pill crusher and you're good to go. We've certainly had our share of cats with chronic runny eyes, and the lysine really has had a positive effect on it!
Steve G - 05 Jul 2005 20:34 GMT > People keep telling me to give them some L-Lysine but nobody seems to > know the dose. The vets won't tell me because it's not a prescription [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > have experience with L-Lysine and can anyone tell me how to use it, or > if I should use it? L-lysine is an amino acid, and it's not really possible to overdose your cat on it. 500mg is usual, 1x/day would work, and how long's a piece of string (I don't know of any problems with persistent use of L-lysine). How? Get gelcaps (e.g., from health food store), open and sprinkle / mix into food.
It's a usual supplement for cats who suffer from herpes, and AFAIK, there's no harm in trying it for a mystery eye virus.
S.
Mary - 05 Jul 2005 20:34 GMT > > People keep telling me to give them some L-Lysine but nobody seems to > > know the dose. The vets won't tell me because it's not a prescription [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > S. 500 is usual for a full-grown cat. 250 is the recommended dosage for kittens.
Steve G - 05 Jul 2005 21:16 GMT (...)
> 500 is usual for a full-grown cat. 250 is the recommended dosage for > kittens. Angels dancing on the head of a pin. As I said, it's not practically possible to overdose on L-lysine, and there's no reason to give 250mg as opposed to 500mg in a kitten. Also, sites do not universally agree that 250mg is the 'kitten dose' and 500mg the 'cat dose' (many sites makes no distinction), and any recommendations are purely empirical given that this is not a 'standard' vet treatment. People on this group (e.g., Megan - http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets.cats.anecdotes/msg/cf067402b30d2f96 ?hl=en) have also recommended 500mg in kittens, presumably based on personal experience. Other places on the WWWonderful suggest 1000mg as useful (e.g., http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?s=ca87e5aa67823cb66d05ffc08f2791 d5&p=716991#post716991). YMMV.
S.
sriddles@aol.com - 05 Jul 2005 21:22 GMT > (...) > > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > S. Not to complicate the issue further, but I just had a discussion about this very thing with the vet re: a cat w/herpes. He sells this tube of vet-grade lysine that's specifically for cats. He got one out, since he wasn't sure and I asked him how much. The tube said 250 mg. He also said you don't have to buy the veterinary stuff, that the regular lysine from the health food store or whatever is just as good and cheaper.
Sherry
Steve G - 05 Jul 2005 21:28 GMT sridd...@aol.com wrote: (...)
> Not to complicate the issue further, This is a bit like saying 'I'm not a racist, but...'...!
> but I just had a discussion about > this very thing with the vet re: a cat w/herpes. He sells this tube of > vet-grade lysine that's specifically for cats. So, that's 8 times the price for half as much? (How does it differ from human-grade L-lysine, I wonder?)
> He got one out, since he > wasn't sure and I asked him how much. The tube said 250 mg. He also > said you don't have to buy the veterinary stuff, that the regular > lysine from the health food store or whatever is just as good and > cheaper. Indeed. It's cheap. I think 500mg may be a popular dosage because that's the common gelcap size (for human use). Whatever works.
S.
Phil P. - 05 Jul 2005 21:55 GMT > Not to complicate the issue further, but I just had a discussion about > this very thing with the vet re: a cat w/herpes. He sells this tube of [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Sherry I think you mean Viralys- 1.25 ml (1/4 teaspoon) contains 250 mg of L-Lysine. A 5 oz tube cost about $7-8.
Phil
sriddles@aol.com - 05 Jul 2005 22:18 GMT > > Not to complicate the issue further, but I just had a discussion about > > this very thing with the vet re: a cat w/herpes. He sells this tube of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Phil Yes, I think that was it. Thanks, Phil. When I first started Boots, it was recommended to me 500 mg for the first few doses and 250 mg day after that. I always tried to find the capsules, to put in her food. I can absolutely testify that it *does* work on some cats. Boots has not had an outbreak at all in over a year. That's a record for her. Another question re: herpes though. Before, when she would get so congested with that stuff, I'd take her to the vet and she'd nearly always have a yeast infection in one or both her ears. Is that a herpes thing too?
Sherry
Phil P. - 06 Jul 2005 09:39 GMT > > > Not to complicate the issue further, but I just had a discussion about > > > this very thing with the vet re: a cat w/herpes. He sells this tube of [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > always have a yeast infection in one or both her ears. Is that a herpes > thing too? Could be. The auditory (eustachian) tube connects the nasopharynx to the middle ear- so it is possible for a cat develop otitis media/externa by this route as a sequela to an upper respiratory disease.
Does Boots cough or gag when you put liquid in her ear? If she does, she could have a ruptured or perferated eardrum-- the liquid is flowing through the ruptured eardrum, to the middle ear, and through the eustachian tube and into the pharynx.
Phil
Wendy - 06 Jul 2005 12:28 GMT >> > Not to complicate the issue further, but I just had a discussion about >> > this very thing with the vet re: a cat w/herpes. He sells this tube of [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Sherry What do you do to treat a yeast infection in the ear?
W
Mary - 05 Jul 2005 21:23 GMT > (...) > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > given that this is not a 'standard' vet treatment. People on this group > (e.g., Megan - http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets.cats.anecdotes/msg/cf067402b30d2f96 ?hl=en)
> have also recommended 500mg in kittens, presumably based on personal > experience. Other places on the WWWonderful suggest 1000mg as useful > (e.g., http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/showthread.php?s=ca87e5aa67823cb66d05ffc08f2791 d5&p=716991#post716991).
> YMMV. I don't know enough about amino acids (if they can all be lumped together) to know what the effects of "too much" may be. Do we know everything about them? About this particular one? I would err on the side of caution with little baby cats. But I defer to your expertise.
Steve G - 05 Jul 2005 21:57 GMT (...)
> I don't know enough about amino acids (if they can all be lumped together) Well, they have different functions, and they can't entirely be lumped together in terms of safety (although all may be considered 'safe' in general terms).
> to know what the effects of "too much" may be. Do we know everything about > them? About this particular one? I would err on the side of caution with > little baby cats. But I defer to your expertise. Caveat: Pretty much all I know about aminos is in the context of humans and amino supplementation for sport and related stuff (e.g., http://www.sportsci.org/jour/9901/rbk.html). People are very cavalier in their supplementation doses, taking many grammes of some aminos, with (possible) benefit and (rarely) problems. Problems AFAIK seem to be mostly due to impurities in poor examples of such supplements - metals AFAIK. Also, GI issues are possible with large doses.
I have not heard of any reports in any context of L-lysine toxicity per se; I have heard of problems with some other aminos, but rarely. There will be the usual issues from feeding (excess) protein, but given that cats are designed to deal with lots of protein and bits thereof, I would expect problems to be less likely in cats than in humans.
Some more info (in humans) here: http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/nmdrugprofiles/nutsupdrugs/lly_0166.shtml
There's also a paper I've not read (Flodin 1997; J Am Coll Nutr 16: 7-21) all about L-lysine, which states in the asbtract 'Data on toxicity are reviewed and recommendations made regarding safety of chronic dosage levels.'. If I remember when I'm next in the library I'll grab a copy. I expect this paper will not note any cases of toxicity, either.
But: Being cautious is good - there's certainly no harm in starting at 250mg and then increasing the dose if no effect is seen - but there's no evidence for 250mg as a kitten dose, or whatever, nor any evidence that worrying over the dose is time well spent. (Unless you decided to feed 83g or somesuch).
S.
Phil P. - 06 Jul 2005 09:53 GMT > I don't know enough about amino acids (if they can all be lumped together) > to know what the effects of "too much" may be. Do we know everything about > them? About this particular one? I would err on the side of caution with > little > baby cats. But I defer to your expertise. Too much lysine can affect another amino acid Arginine because it competes with arginine- IOW, increasing lysine decreases arginine (which the herpesvirus needs to replicate). Arginine detoxifies ammonia in the cat's kidneys- low arginine levels can lead to severe hyperammonemia, coma and death. Arginine is also important for the heart and pancreatic function and intestinal health.
Phil
Phil P. - 05 Jul 2005 21:49 GMT > Hello all, I've got some stray kittens who came to me with their eyes > glued shut with green mucus, runny noses, covered with fleas, and [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > have experience with L-Lysine and can anyone tell me how to use it, or > if I should use it? 250 mg. twice a day - probably for life. I recommend buying the 500 mg capsules. Pull the capsule apart and mix half the contents of the capsule in the food. Put the capsule back together and use the remaining half in the evening feeding. Lysine also comes in a gel and a powder.
Mixing meds in a cat's regular food can cause the cat to develop an aversion to that food. So, you might want to mix the med in a treat or 5 ml of tuna water.
I've got a 4 year old cat who has a lifelong
> chronic runny eye from when she had a nasty nasty cold as an underage > orphan, and I don't want the same thing to happen to these 2 babies. > She's been to 2 eye doctors and had water run through her tear duct and > it wasn't blocked so all the vets can tell me is it's a permanent virus > living in her eye. In some cats- usually cats with long-standing FHV infections- permanent damage is caused to the nasal mucosa and turbinates which leaves the cats prone to chronic UR bacterial infections. The lysine will inhibit viral replication if the virus is present which should help suppress symptoms.
Good luck,
Phil
Cheryl - 06 Jul 2005 00:35 GMT > Hello all, I've got some stray kittens who came to me with their > eyes glued shut with green mucus, runny noses, covered with [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > all the vets can tell me is it's a permanent virus living in her > eye. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, ~ Laurie ~ I've had three now that had pretty bad cases of feline herpes and they've been helped with the lysine. The first was Bonnie (former feral) and I had to spoonfeed her because she was too congested to want to eat on her own. 250mg 2x per day mixed in canned kitten food mixed with all-meat baby food for some additional stinkiness. More recently it's been a pair of littermates that I adopted in November. I still have to give them lysine off and on. I started them off with 250mg 2x per day in canned food, or sometimes just babyfood when they didn't want to eat much. The smaller the amount of food it's put in, the better. I've also found that the lysine in capsules is tasteless, where the pill form that you have to crush is bitter. If you have a Safeway nearby, look for the Twin Labs brand in 500mg capsules. If they'll take it in the food, just keep giving it to them indefinitely. Good luck.
 Signature Cheryl
"The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields
Kathi S. - 08 Jul 2005 11:22 GMT >Hello all, I've got some stray kittens who came to me with their eyes >glued shut with green mucus, runny noses, covered with fleas, and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >living in her eye. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, >~ Laurie ~ Hi Laurie,
I have been using Lysine for 3 neighborhood litters of kittens over the past year. All three litters showed up with what you describe. Along with other treatment (a homemade solution for their eyes) I gave them each 500mg per day and it worked wonderfully. Their eyes were so horrid at first that they were constantly glued shut and swollen and full of pus. At about 1 year old now their eyes are completely free of problems.
Kathi
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