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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / July 2005Problem with cat fighting
Hello, Thanks for looking at this question. I have 1 older stray cat (male, neutered), 1 not so old (male,neutered) and another stray female, very young that just dropped a litter of kittens that we just gave away to good homes. The problem is, this new female just hates my older male, and they fight all the time. My older cat is now staying away next door. She does'nt bother the younger male because he was the father of the litter before he was neutered (recently). Man , this sounds like a soap opera. Is there any way to get this very active aggressive female to make up with my older male ?? The female is fine with most everybody and everything except my older male cat. I can't figure why the dislike. Any help most appreciated. Suggestions, web sites, anything. Thanks in advance,,,,,,,,,Steve slats1@fuse.net > Thanks for looking at this question. I have 1 older > stray cat [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > everybody and everything except my older male cat. I can't > figure why the dislike. They are somewhat new to each other? Clip her claws and give her lots of attention. The claw clipping might stop the attacks if she gets hurt doing so, but she might have a good (personal) reason for doing so, like maybe he causes her much stress. If possible, please report back many months from now to tell how it is going. If you have declawed them, please do not reply. Hello Steve, Has the female been spayed yet? I wonder if hormones has something to do with it. Rhonda > Hello, > Thanks for looking at this question. I have 1 older stray cat [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Thanks in advance,,,,,,,,,Steve > slats1@fuse.net On Mon 04 Jul 2005 01:37:13p, wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav (news:1120498633.926595.314690@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com): > Hello, > Thanks for looking at this question. I have 1 older stray cat [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > everybody and everything except my older male cat. I can't > figure why the dislike. Has the female been spayed yet? If so, how long ago? A few years ago I was fostering a female cat who'd been spayed just before I got her, but when she was spayed, she was well into pregnancy. She was the meanest cat I've ever seen. I attributed it to hormones because her history was unknown, so no one could say that she was always this way. She was great with people and very affectionate, but if she even got a glimpse of another cat she went apeshit. She even bit my thumb to the bone trying to get out of my arms so she could attack one of my cats. She was placed in a home as an only cat which I think, based on her time here, was all she could handle. Have you had her separated from the others for an introduction period? Do you have a spare room, guest room, or any other area where she can be by herself for a while? There are many methods of introducing new cats, and some very good ones in the archives of this group but I'm sure they can be reposted to you if this applies. If you do have a place where she can be separated, I'd bring back your older male and start working on a VERY SLOW integration process. Let us know how you do, ok?  SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields > On Mon 04 Jul 2005 01:37:13p, slats1@usa.com wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav > (news:1120498633.926595.314690@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com): >> Is there any way to get this very active aggressive female to >> make up with my older male ?? The female is fine with most >> everybody and everything except my older male cat. I can't >> figure why the dislike. One more comment about her - an intact female stray or feral cat has to constantly ward off tomcats looking to mate. If they've been out there through many seasons, it isn't surprising that they have an attitude about male cats, neutered or not. It will take some time. :) SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields >> On Mon 04 Jul 2005 01:37:13p, slats1@usa.com wrote in > rec.pets.cats.health+behav [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > attitude about male cats, neutered or not. It will take some time. > :) The females can go a little nutzo when they've recently had a litter. I had a foster cat who caught just a glimpse of one of my cats and launched herself at my poor Isabelle. Izzy didn't know what hit her. The dh ended up in the middle trying to break it up and get her back in the foster room. Once she was spayed and a little time passed she was fine with other cats. W >> On Mon 04 Jul 2005 01:37:13p, slats1@usa.com wrote in >>> Is there any way to get this very active aggressive female to >>> make up with my older male ?? The female is fine with most >>> everybody and everything except my older male cat. I can't >>> figure why the dislike. > One more comment about her - an intact female stray or feral cat > has to constantly ward off tomcats looking to mate. My understanding is that a tomcat will kill a litter of kittens, I think so that the female will be ready to mate sooner. I suppose that could produce an instinctual negative reaction in the female against them. > My understanding is that a tomcat will kill a litter of kittens, I > think so that the female will be ready to mate sooner. I've never heard of this in any species. To me this is against survival, but I don't know, but you can rarely believe what you hear. >> My understanding is that a tomcat will kill a litter of >> kittens, I think so that the female will be ready to mate [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > To me this is against survival, but I don't know, but you can > rarely believe what you hear. I've heard of this with "big cats" but haven't seen anything as far as proof that it happens with domestic cats (including ferals). However, there was a time that I had to go trap the kittens of 4 mama cats that had become part of an old woman's "colony" because it had gotten so out of hand that she couldn't continue having all of the new visiters spayed/neutered anymore. Out of 11 kittens still alive, there was only a single male. The male that was presumably the father of all of them was trapped for neutering and tested postive for FeLV so we can't attribute the lack of males to him killing them. Could be the case, though. SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields > >> My understanding is that a tomcat will kill a litter of > >> kittens, I think so that the female will be ready to mate [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I've heard of this with "big cats" but haven't seen anything as far > as proof that it happens with domestic cats (including ferals). There is some truth to this but it is normally with feral cats and it has a definite purpose. There have been references to this behaviour happening in households as well, but very rarely. If a Tom suspects (through scent or what have you) that a rival male has fathered kittens in his group (territory) he may kill the kittens forcing the female to ovulate sooner, thus making her pregnant with his kittens, thereby carrying out his lineage. This is dependant on the number of females in his territory. Trish >> >> My understanding is that a tomcat will kill a litter of >> >> kittens, I think so that the female will be ready to mate [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Trish First, female cats don't ovulate as female humans, dogs, and other mammals. They are induced ovulators. Meaning, they don't ovulate until they are penetrated. Second, the gender of his offspring DOES matter because in the wild, he can impregnate his own female offspring. His male offspring are rivals. At least that's how it works with big cats. I'd like to see those references that say that domestic cat males, or feral cat males, kill their male offspring, or even the male offspring of other males. SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields > >> >> My understanding is that a tomcat will kill a litter of > >> >> kittens, I think so that the female will be ready to mate [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > or feral cat males, kill their male offspring, or even the male > offspring of other males. I can dig it up but it's been a while, it was a research paper I did in university on rivalry in non human species. However, I'll start looking for it... I'm trying to remember the name of a book you might be interested in reading, it's about aggression and non-aggression in various species.. It'll come to me later... And ok, I used the term ovulate.. you got my point, did I really need to be so precise? As for wanting me to back up with cites and references, I'll show you mine if you show me yours... show me where it states gender matters when killing offspring... I disagree with your notion that his male offspring are rivals while at the kitten stage, they are not sexually reproductive yet, hence no rival... But I'm certainly will to accept new ideas if you can support them. >First, female cats don't ovulate as female humans, dogs, and other >mammals. They are induced ovulators. Meaning, they don't ovulate [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >or feral cat males, kill their male offspring, or even the male >offspring of other males. The first litter of barn cats I can remember from my farm-bred childhood, a tom found it and killed the only male in the litter. No way of knowing if the tom was the father of all or part of that litter. SignatureWayne M. > The first litter of barn cats I can remember from my farm-bred > childhood, a tom found it and killed the only male in the > litter. No way of knowing if the tom was the father of all or > part of that litter. > Wayne M. Hellooo Did you see this? I mean, ya'll stood by and let it happen or, you just assumed it was the Tom? >> The first litter of barn cats I can remember from my farm-bred >> childhood, a tom found it and killed the only male in the >> litter. No way of knowing if the tom was the father of all or >> part of that litter. >Hellooo > >Did you see this? I mean, ya'll stood by and let it happen or, you just >assumed it was the Tom? It's hearsay, because I was under ten at the time and not directly involved. My understanding is that the tom was seen to go into the outbuilding where the kittens were nested, someone (probably my father) checked up and found the kitten savaged and dead. No one had any doubt that the tom was responsible (no other suspects in the case, I suppose). The only question was why only the one. SignatureWayne M. >>> My understanding is that a tomcat will kill a litter of >>> kittens, I think so that the female will be ready to mate >>> sooner. > I've heard of this with "big cats" I heard of that a long time ago, long before I got on the Internet. After a quick search on the Internet just now. http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/printthread.php?t=25274 "Feral males will, at times, try to kill kittens - though this is usually only when they're weaning. (If the litter is killed the female will be able to get pregnant again)." http://www.messybeast.com/kill_kit.htm "When a new tomcat takes over or inherits a territory (the former territory owner having been removed, neutered and thus non- competitive, or dead) he may also be driven to destroy any kittens in order to 'found his own line'." http://www.kittencare.com/askKC_Pregnancy_Birth.html On that web site, the questioner is asking about the scenario you proposed. Q. "I have heard stories where tomcats kill male kittens for rival reasons." A. "Tomcats, especially feral tomcats, have been known to sometimes kill kittens that are not their own." > but haven't seen anything as far as proof that it happens with > domestic cats (including ferals). Hopefully you never will, especially now that you have heard the news. <Nipped in the bud> You're like a little kid "Is too!" ungh uh! "Is too!" ungh uh! etcetera! It's ok Doe boy! I am going to get you some help Troll > Path: newssvr17.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm06.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail > From: "õcratch" <neverhirelocalmen yahoo.com> [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > I am going to get you some help >>>> My understanding is that a tomcat will kill a litter of >>>> kittens, I think so that the female will be ready to mate [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Hopefully you never will, especially now that you have heard the > news. These are very interesting, yet anecdotal, stories, but I've yet to read proof. I've seen feral mama cats, and unless the kittens are killed at a very very young age, mama had a good way to get them to move out of danger. Mama cats are also very dangerous. I know, BTDT. This could be why Mama moves her litter so often, but it still doesn't prove that the male suitor is the reason. Don't get me wrong, I don't disbelieve it. I've just never seen proof. The litters of 4 mamas with only a single male among all of them might be sort of proof, but no one saw it happen. SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields > On Tue 05 Jul 2005 09:14:18p, John Doe wrote in >>> I've heard of this with "big cats" >> I heard of that a long time ago, long before I got on the >> Internet. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> "Tomcats, especially feral tomcats, have been known to >> sometimes kill kittens that are not their own." >>> but haven't seen anything as far as proof that it happens with >>> domestic cats (including ferals). >> Hopefully you never will, especially now that you have heard >> the news. > These are very interesting, yet anecdotal, stories, but I've yet > to read proof. You mean you were not implying that you had never heard of it, when you wrote: "I've heard of this with "big cats" but..." I guess you were being concise. Writing is hard work [playing, sort of]. > I've seen feral mama cats, and unless the kittens are > killed at a very very young age, mama had a good way to get them > to move out of danger. Mama cats are also very dangerous. Unless the mother cat is hunting, partly to help feed her hungry kittens. You can raise the bar, but I'm not jumping. What I saw was more than anecdotal evidence. I think it is true, but even if it is, its possible application to the original poster's problem does not warrant further effort on my part. Have fun. >> My understanding is that a tomcat will kill a litter of >> kittens, I think so that the female will be ready to mate >> sooner. > I've never heard of this in any species. As if you know something about all species. > To me this is against survival, The kittens die. > but I don't know, but you can rarely believe what you hear. When talking to yourself. Animals hurt and kill each other every day, even among the same species. In the wild, animals eat each other alive. Lemmings run and jump to their death. Species are known to cannibalize their mates, (offhand) black widow spiders and praying mantises. A lioness will seek out and kill cheetah cubs right in front of their mother. Those things are no more easily justified IMO than a tomcat killing another cat's offspring. In the wild, it is (pardon the expression) dog eat dog. > Path: newssvr31.news.prodigy.com!newssvr17.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm02.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm06.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail > From: "whitershadeofpale" <bigbadbarry adelphia.net> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Injection-Info: g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com; posting-host=69.168.24.114; posting-account=spjB1A0AAABQAQQ5dkg3_gZwONU3us3k > Xref: newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com rec.pets.cats.health+behav:379026 > >> My understanding is that a tomcat will kill a litter of > >> kittens, I think so that the female will be ready to mate [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > As if you know something about all species. f.ck Off Mate! > > To me this is against survival, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > When talking to yourself. aaaaw, you still sore about that pile of fuzzy 2x4's in the dumpster or are you tired of hitting your head on the catwalk yet? > Animals hurt and kill each other every day, even among the same > species. > > In the wild, animals eat each other alive. > > Lemmings run and jump to their death. This is not apples killing apples numb nuts > Species are known to cannibalize their mates, (offhand) black > widow spiders and praying mantises. The idea here is, do abc to abc. > A lioness will seek out and kill cheetah cubs right in front of > their mother. Yeah, and we got the KKK in Durham, and Raleigh killing Hispanics and Blacks > Those things are no more easily justified IMO than a tomcat > killing another cat's offspring. In the wild, it is (pardon the > expression) dog eat dog. I say the person that told you this is full of crappolla! This makes no sense in survival of a species. Besides, even if you did cite a similiarity (which you did not) You still have no proof other than hearsay. Why not go ahead and fix that cheesy mac, and stop being shitay Troll > Path: newssvr17.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm06.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail > From: "whitershadeofpale" <bigbadbarry adelphia.net> [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > > Why not go ahead and fix that cheesy mac, and stop being shitay |
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