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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / September 2003Desperately Seeking Zeniquin
I also posted this on alt.med.veterinary. I feel like a drug addict. I want to obtain Zenequin for my 17 year old cat. He has mild CRF (most recently BUN 45 and creatinine 2.6, usually lower than that but he was somewhat dehydrated at the time of his last vet visit on 9/18). He repeatedly gets urinary tract infections. I know him far better than the vet does, I can tell when he is getting ill. He becomes withdrawn, lethargic, loses his appetite. This has happened countless times in the last 2 years. He consistently always has either blood in his urine or the urine culture will show bacteria. So, it is constantly costing me $200 to get bloodwork done when I know for a fact that if he could be on abx all the time, he would not get ill. He feels wonderful on abx. He is now on zeniquin 12.5mg, prescribed by the vet, but when it runs out, he will get ill a few days later. Currently, he is back to his old, active, chatty, hungry self. My vet is not willing to give me abx prn. I am an adult, I have some medical knowledge, I'm a college graduate, I can read on the internet. I know some vets will prescribe abx prn for cats with CRF and chronic UTIs. I like my vet otherwise, I've spent a ton of $$ with him, and I don't feel like starting all over with someone new. The other day he finally said he *might* consider pulse dosing but, actually, I don't think pulse dosing would be enough. I want the cat on a low dose of abx permanently for maintenance. I understand resistance, etc., but he's 17 and he only feels good if he's on them so why should he have to feel bad and die because I can't get some abx? I see now that Augmentin (same as Clavamox) can now be obtained at some online RXs without a prescription but I want Zeniquin and I can't find that anywhere. I suppose I can go back to Augmentin if I must as he tolerates that fairly well, too, but I am desperately seeking Zenequin. What's the big deal and can someone tell me where I can get it? He also has hyperthyroidism and is being treated successfully with tapazole for the last year and a half. He does just fine on abx. Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace That´s one expensive antibiotic! Recurring infections is a sign of immune weakness, alkaline urine pH, and not enough urination. If he were my cat, I would try to solve the problem with a high quality canned diet (e.g. Wellness, Felidae, Wysong etc.), give him a raw snack daily (beef or chicken), give him raw liver once a week and supplement his diet with B vitamins. I would only resort to abx if this didn´t work. Have you tried the online drugstores? > That´s one expensive antibiotic! Recurring infections is a sign of > immune weakness, alkaline urine pH, and not enough urination. If he [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > supplement his diet with B vitamins. I would only resort to abx if > this didn´t work. Have you tried the online drugstores? Not a good idea. The primary culprit in speeding the fatal end of the disease is high levels of phosphorus. The addition of the meats and foods above would push phos levels *way* beyond what is appropriate for a CRF cat in ANY condition. The phos levels on the suggested foods range from 4-8 times the proper level for a CRF kitty. Urine pH of 6.8-7.2 is APPROPRIATE for a CRF kitty and is part of the proper treatment for the same. > Not a good idea. The primary culprit in speeding the fatal end of the > disease is high levels of phosphorus. The addition of the meats and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 6.8-7.2 is APPROPRIATE for a CRF kitty and is part of the proper > treatment for the same. We´ve gone over this before. If the cat has hyperphosphataemia the owner should worry about phosphate content in the diet, otherwise, there´s no reason to worry. As long as blood level of phosphorus is withing limits, it will not add to kidney damage. And in my opinion (and I bet my life on it), it´s not the phosphorus in the diet that causes hyperphosphataemia but metabolic acidosis. To back this up, some CRF cats on kidney diets and phosphate binders still present hyperphosphataemia. So, where´s the phosphorus coming from? That excess phosphurus is coming from the bones. 80% of cats with CRF suffer from metabolic acidosis and that should be the primary concern. Furthermore, metabolic acidosis is much more harmful to kidneys than hyperphosphataemia. And finally, Hill´s *recommends* giving high quality meat to CRF cats and the meat they recommend is raw beef liver. High creatine and BUN are also caused by metabolic acidosis. > > Not a good idea. The primary culprit in speeding the fatal end of the > > disease is high levels of phosphorus. The addition of the meats and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > We?ve gone over this before. So? Do you really think rational people will take your theory over the recommendations of ACVIM Diplomates and just about the entire veterinary community??? LOL! ....and cats fed reduced phosphorus diets *still* survive *twice* as long (581 days).than cats fed normal phosphorus diets (252 days). If the cat has hyperphosphataemia the > owner should worry about phosphate content in the diet, otherwise, > there?s no reason to worry. As long as blood level of phosphorus is > withing limits, it will not add to kidney damage. .So the overwhelming vast majority of vets and ACVIM Diplomates that recommend reducing phosphorus intake are wrong... and you're right???? LOL! Just like your theory for dissolving calcium oxalate uroliths in cats with *water*!!! ROTFL!!! Studies in cats with CRF have shown that normal dietary phosphorus intake is associated with microscopic renal mineralization and fibrosis and that these effects are prevented by decreasing the dietary phosphorus intake. "You* even cited the study! LOL! And in my opinion > (and I bet my life on it), I'm gonna hold you to that! it?s not the phosphorus in the diet that > causes hyperphosphataemia but metabolic acidosis. Hyperphosphatemia occurs in animals with CRF as a result of decreased renal excretion If dietary phosphorus intake remains constant, a decline in GFR leads to phosphorus retention and ultimately hyperphosphatemia. .Remember your bet! I'll expect to see your name in the obituary column tomorrow. The world for cats will be a better and safer place. > .Remember your bet! I'll expect to see your name in the obituary column > tomorrow. The world for cats will be a better and safer place. I´m still alive. You have already showed me how much you don´t understand of the things you read and the things you copy so I won´t even bother. > > .Remember your bet! I'll expect to see your name in the obituary column > > tomorrow. The world for cats will be a better and safer place. > > I?m still alive. Tough break for cats.. Its not too late for you to make tomorrow's column... You have already showed me how much you don?t > understand of the things you read You're right! I don't understand your utterly stupid and asinine delusions that are in direct opposition to mainstream veterinary practice. LOL! I think you're a nut-case and a clear and present danger to cats. I'd rather be as "stupid" as I am than as "smart" as you, any day! ROTFL! so I won?t > even bother. Great! I didn't want another one of your asinine/convoluted/deluded explanations, anyway.. Here's a thought: Why don't you enlighten the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine and the rest of the veterinary medical community with your backwoods "brilliance"? I'm sure they'd be honored to be enlightened by someone of your stature... and I'm also sure they'd be eternally grateful to you for pointing out all of the errors they were taught by their professors and ACVIM Diplomates! LOL! Maybe in return for the laughs they'll send you a few bucks to help you feed your cats! ROTFLMAO! I tremble at the thought of how many cats died of acute renal failure from your asinine delusion, because their owners were waiting for their cats' calcium oxalate uroliths to dissolve.... Now, you're trying to minimize the potential dangers of high-phosphorus intake because the diets you promote are high in phosphorus. Your agenda is obviously more important to you than the cats themselves. Stick to your chemistry set and test tubes... and stay the hell away from real live cats before your utterly stupid and dangerous advice kills some cats... if it hasn't already. << That´s one expensive antibiotic! Recurring infections is a sign of immune weakness, alkaline urine pH, and not enough urination. If he were my cat, I would try to solve the problem with a high quality canned diet (e.g. Wellness, Felidae, Wysong etc.), give him a raw snack daily (beef or chicken), give him raw liver once a week and supplement his diet with B vitamins. I would only resort to abx if this didn´t work. Have you tried the online drugstores? I thought the recurring infections was because his urine is dilute. Yes, I have tried the online drugstores. They sell augmentin (same as clavamox) but not zeniquin. Aside from the above diet probably not being good for a CRF cat, he wouldn't eat it. He's one cat who has never liked human food including any sort of raw meat. He eats Hill's g/d which was recommended by both Steve Crane (my cats already ate Hill's prescription foods so it wasn't Steve who convinced me to go Hill's) and Phil Pass. He won't eat k/d. He eats Pro Plan, Nutro, and also Fancy Feast because he likes it and it's important that he eats. I am trying to supplement his diet with vitamins but he fights it whether I give it to him in a tube, right into his mouth, or mixed into his food. Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace I did a Google search on Zeniquim and got many online drugstores selling the product. Here´s one: http://www.destinationrx.com/petprescriptions/refine.asp?name=Zeniquin The B vitamins are also sold in tablets, here I find them in very small tablets, almost the size of a pill. My cats swollow it with not resistance. I wonder if you can find it that small there? There´s also the liquid form that you can try. Cats with CRF should always be given extra Bs. << http://www.destinationrx.com/petprescriptions/refine.asp?name=Zeniquin >> Thank you. Unfortunately, it says "prescription required." That's where I have a problem. I can get zeniquin readily with a prescription; I want to obtain it *without* a prescription. Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace |
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