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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / June 2005Just For The Records
Phil Sent Me an email. ------- Start ------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "bigbadbarry" <bigbadbarry@adelphia.net> To: "Phil P." <phil@maxshouse.com> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 4:07 AM Subject: Re: cat is a bully > Phil P. wrote: > > > So you're a paranoid control freak, too! I'd bet you got your a.s kicked a > > lot in high school- probably still do! > > This is a documented date and time stamped comment from you to me. >bigbadbarry wrote: > If you make one more reference about bodily harm to me...I am >moving > forward and document your remarks with the authorities. Go for it! Don't threaten me, jerk-off! You don't know who you're f.cking with. > I can tell the authorities where you live, justforphil.jpg LOL! I didn't even bother clicking on your stupid link! You don't know sh.t. Even if you did, you ain't man enough to do anything about it. Now, f.ck off. ------ End Email ----- Real cute! Phil is such a non-violent person. What bothered me about this was, I am seeing instability and lack of control. It is evident through Phil's words that he is thinking about me getting my butt kicked. Otherwise why bring it up? ------------------- I quote Catnipped, "Violence is *NEVER* a solution to problems, but it's the first resort of the unintelligent or those who don't have other resources to bring to bear in solving a problem. Again, those we are trying to teach *always* learn by example and *never* by the words coming out of our mouths (that are contradicted by the actions we perform). Hugs, CatNipped" > Phil Sent Me an email. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > control. It is evident through Phil's words that he is thinking about > me getting my butt kicked. Otherwise why bring it up? You're not telling anyone who has been reading this group for any length of time anything we don't know about Phil already. Yes, he gets frustrated and pissed. No, he's not gonna come and kick your a.s. He's kind of busy saving cats. You've been taunting him and aggravating him with some of your ridiculous pro-hitting cats and anti-shelter remarks. He's not the only one pissed at some of your remarks as you well know. He tends to express himself when he's mad. Big deal. Let it go. Candace >> Phil Sent Me an email. >> [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Candace Candance. Your tolerance of Phil P's outlandish invectives is that you are living through Phil P. It is that transparent. > >> Phil Sent Me an email. > >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Candance. Your tolerance of Phil P's outlandish invectives is that you are > living through Phil P. It is that transparent. You want to try that sentence again, buckwheat? :) > Candance. Your tolerance of Phil P's outlandish invectives is that you are > living through Phil P. It is that transparent. a) it's CANDACE, not Candance, I cannot dance. b) huh? Living vicariously through him? Or actually living *through* him as in being possessed? Either way, it sounds interesting. Candace > > Candance. Your tolerance of Phil P's outlandish invectives is that you are > > living through Phil P. It is that transparent. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Candace Oh, and I forgot: c) you hate Phil P. It is that transparent. We've all seen this a bazillion times, where someone "new" gets pissed at Phil and then the attacks begin. Phil doesn't take much sh.t and, yes, he can be insulting, and he knows that, and just plain doesn't give a crap. He still helps many, many cats. Do you? Candace >>> Candance. Your tolerance of Phil P's outlandish invectives is that >>> you are living through Phil P. It is that transparent. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Candace Sweety pie ... go find evidence that I hate Phil P. You will find the first "hatred" was expressed by him. > >>> Candance. Your tolerance of Phil P's outlandish invectives is that > >>> you are living through Phil P. It is that transparent. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Sweety pie ... go find evidence that I hate Phil P. You will find the first > "hatred" was expressed by him. Your a.s. You've been spewing misogynistic hatred every chance you get from the moment you first posted. I can understand how you came to hate women--your posts leave little doubt that they tend to hate you. God help that poor wretched creature you call "the wife." > >>> Candance. Your tolerance of Phil P's outlandish invectives is that > >>> you are living through Phil P. It is that transparent. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Sweety pie ... go find evidence that I hate Phil P. You will find the first > "hatred" was expressed by him. You're right! Your comment about disabled cats being "euthanasia candidates" did the trick! Now you're considering getting rid of your new cat because he has a simple URI. You're a real piece of sh.t. > You're right! Your comment about disabled cats being "euthanasia > candidates" did the trick! Now you're considering getting rid of your new > cat because he has a simple URI. You're a real piece of sh.t. Phil P.: The rescue organization web site to which you often direct people in your posts is http://www.maxshouse.com/ . It states, "We do not euthanize any healthy animal under any circumstances!" Does S.T.A.R.T. euthanize unhealthy animals? If so, under what circumstances? What do you advise a person who is told by two, independent competent vets that the bills for his/her cat will run over $5000 in the next year for the disease the cat has; the cat may not live beyond a year; the person can't afford the $5000 without jeopardizing her recently diagnosed asthmatic son's health, but reasons that, with the $200 s/he does have, she can euthanize the first cat and adopt two new cats? I'm not going to dissect or put down your response. It seems to me these dilemmas do arise, though, so I'd like to see what you say. My position is that the person will make the right decision with either choice. > What do you advise a person who is told by two, independent competent vets > that the bills for his/her cat will run over $5000 in the next year for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > health, but reasons that, with the $200 s/he does have, she can euthanize > the first cat and adopt two new cats? That would be an unhealthy cat. There is a difference between an unhealthy cat that has an uncertain future and not much chance to recover, and a perfectly healthy, but disabled cat (blind, deaf, missing a leg, etc) that can lead a pretty normal life. Why do people always have to bring up these Sophie's Choice scenarios?  Signature-Kelly > "Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote > > What do you advise a person who is told by two, independent competent vets [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Why do people always have to bring up these Sophie's Choice scenarios? Because "disabled" is a vague term. Because no one can really know how sick or healthy a cat with a diagnosis like this is. Because rarely are these matters black and white, and so AFAIC it's important to propose that rarely does anyone at this board deserve to be judged on these matters, lest the judge wish to be judged him/herself. > Because "disabled" is a vague term. Because no one can really know how > sick [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > does anyone at this board deserve to be judged on these matters, lest the > judge wish to be judged him/herself. No, these matters are not black and white. I would need to know this hypothetical cat's diagnosis, i.e. what is this mystery disease, what are the procedures that the vet is proposing, what is the cat's overall health, what is his current quality of life, and what is the prognosis with and without treatment before I could make any type of judgment. You can't put it just in terms of how much money and how long does the cat have. No need to bring a sick kid into it, either. If you had been following along with Phillip's post, you would see he was not referring to these type of scenarios. He has been talking about returning his cat with a URI to the high-kill shelter. Signature-Kelly "KellyH" <Kelly@farringtonsNOSPAM.net> wrote snip > If you had been following along with Phillip's post, you would see he was > not referring to these type of scenarios. He has been talking about > returning his cat with a URI to the high-kill shelter. Well I said I wouldn't dissect or put down whatever Phil P. said, so it would be unfair of me to do this to anyone else's post. Your opinion is heard. :-) > > "Elle" <elle_navorski@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote > > > What do you advise a person who is told by two, independent competent [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Because "disabled" is a vague term. Because no one can really know how sick > or healthy a cat with a diagnosis like this is. The cat in question was a hypothetical crippled cat who could not walk but was otherwise healthy. The thread was entitled "Pet Stroller". Shortly before, I became aware of an actual crippled cat who was getting around and doing just fine in a custom made walker and harness. Because rarely are these > matters black and white, and so AFAIC it's important to propose that rarely > does anyone at this board deserve to be judged on these matters, lest the > judge wish to be judged him/herself. Here's the post in which the a.shole made the comment. Judge for yourself: > sriddles@aol.com wrote: > > Philip wrote: [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > A crippled pet ... like you have outlined is a euthanasia candidate. This > isn't your sweet gramma Edith who the neighbors know. >Because "disabled" is a vague term. Because no one can really know how sick >or healthy a cat with a diagnosis like this is. Because rarely are these >matters black and white, and so AFAIC it's important to propose that rarely >does anyone at this board deserve to be judged on these matters, lest the >judge wish to be judged him/herself. How is "disabled" vague? Disabled has nothing to do with illness. When my dog went blind, she became disabled. But she was not unhealthy. Would you consider a blind dog (or cat) to be a euthanasia candidate even though she is happy and healthy? I do not. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com >>Because "disabled" is a vague term. Because no one can really know how sick >>or healthy a cat with a diagnosis like this is. Because rarely are these [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Would you consider a blind dog (or cat) to be a euthanasia candidate > even though she is happy and healthy? I do not. I definitely worry that Jasper being blind and deaf is very hard on him and I pray I am always doing the right thing. That being said, I simply can NOT see that as being some kind of reason to put him down. He is the greatest little thing next to sliced bread. He still does all things "cat" and with an extra added finesse...as he bumps into stuff. :) just jumping in cuz i cant sleep, pam >I definitely worry that Jasper being blind and deaf is very hard on him >and I pray I am always doing the right thing. That being said, I simply >can NOT see that as being some kind of reason to put him down. He is the >greatest little thing next to sliced bread. He still does all things >"cat" and with an extra added finesse...as he bumps into stuff. :) My first sheltie went blind at age 9. A genetic problem with no cure or treatment. She was a smart and easy going dog. We all had to make some adjustments. There were some things that stressed her. She would panic if she knew there was food and she couldn't find it. If I had a bone or a treat, I found that it was best to touch it to her nose and then hold still. Let her readjust her head to grab it. If you tried to show it to her and then move it to her mouth, she would move to get it at the same time, and we'd both miss. And then she would panic. But overall, she managed well and taught me how to cue her properly. When we went on walks, she would be out ahead of me, trusting me to tell her about the obstacles. Even in her later years, when she lost her directional hearing, I could talk her around obstacles. I gave the cues naturally at first, without thinking. But she learned to make sense of them and trust me. Once I realized she was using them, I learned to be consistent with them and teach others to use them too. On the other hand, my current sheltie is losing her vision. She has always had poorer than normal vision, and she has clearly lost her peripheral vision. She snaps at the cats if they approach from the side. Jenny is a different example. Unlike, Seus Jay, she is not a calm, easy going dog. Had she started off life in a good home, she might have been. But she was abused and neglected, and totally freaked out when I adopted her. She got really good, but I see her reverting. She spooks easily again. If she is napping, I don't dare step over her or right next to her. Or even pet her without speaking first. I worry about her. She may be healthy, but if her vision is lost completely, I fear she will not be able to adjust, and her fear would be torture for her. I think it really comes down to their personality and ability to cope. If they can deal with it and get along fine, then there is no reason to euthanize them. They can live a good life for many years. If they can't deal with it, and the stress is hurting them, then it may be time to make a tough decision. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > >I definitely worry... Well bless your heart. You have a real gift and love for animals. I was checking out your zoo crew photos yesterday. I like your thoughts on when it's time to pts / it has everything to do with the animal, and not just holding on because of something we want. > I like your thoughts on when it's time to pts / it has everything to do > with the animal, and not just holding on because of something we want. It's defnitely not easy. With Seusy, it was easy to see that the blindness wasn't holding her back. Yes, she was disabled, and we had to do things differently, but it didn't affect her health that much. She did slow down faster as she aged, so she probably didn't live as long as she would have. But she still lived a good life. I was horrified at how many people laughed at me or talked down to me because I didn't dispose of her and get a new dog. She did later (5 years later) have a stroke, and by that time, the blindness, partial hearing loss, arthitis, and her age - led me to believe that recovery from a stroke would not be possible for her. It was too much to put her through with very little to look forward to. With Jenny, I see a totally different situation. Her mental health is more at risk than her physical health. So,I will have to consider that. So far, she is still mostly happy, and we rarely spook her since we do our best to avoid that. Unfortunately, the other cats and dogs do not understand the problem. So, they do spook her. I do hope that you do not consider a blind, otherwise healthy, dog to be a euthanasia candidate. Your remark did come across that way, even if you didn't mean it that way. > I do hope that you do not consider a blind, otherwise healthy, dog to > be a euthanasia candidate. Your remark did come across that way, even > if you didn't mean it that way. Of course not, I understood you to put the animals quality of life first; as if the dog was never blind, you know, what is the quality of life, not what are the handicaps. It is kind of hard to wrap something people feel so passionate about into 2 lines of text, but you gave me the benefit :) I am a sucker for any animal. Those are gorgeous large cat's in the photos at zoocrewphoto, I am partial to the old cats, something about them is soo grave, so beautiful. I've known several blind dogs; to put them to sleep would be easier than putting say a blind man to sleep, it's silly for someone to think "I" have no use for a blind dog. That dog can be just a valueable to the guardian, as well as have a fulfilling life for himself. Animals are much more adaptable to handicaps than people. > Animals are much more adaptable to handicaps than people.< I am pretty sure I would not look this happy if I were both deaf AND blind: http://public.fotki.com/kitkatluna/miscellaneous/jasper_dudley/dscf0001.html http://public.fotki.com/kitkatluna/miscellaneous/jasper_dudley/dscf0019.html (that 2nd one will be a classic around here!) As long as JasperDuds continues to purr like a little motor, eat his food like a chowhound, get around the house and cuddle in bed with us...then I won't worry *too* much about his quiet, dark life. He still plays, too. Loves his catnip banana and loves to stop and use the cat scratcher for some exercise. He is a gem. On a side note...it is next to impossible not to startle him when we come home or even come into the room from another. If you reach down to pet him, he squeals. If you havent been home for a while, it is almost like he screams. Like when you scare the sh.t out of someone and they jump ten feet in the air. There is really no way to avoid it, so we just try to enjoy it as part of the set of quirks that come with a unique character like Jasper. > http://public.fotki.com/kitkatluna/miscellaneous/jasper_dudley/ds > cf0019.html (that 2nd one will be a classic around here!) LOL! He kind of reminds me of a bat with folded up wings. Just picture him hanging upside down! :) He's an amazing cat. He's lucky to have you! SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields >>http://public.fotki.com/kitkatluna/miscellaneous/jasper_dudley/ds >>cf0019.html (that 2nd one will be a classic around here!) > > LOL! He kind of reminds me of a bat with folded up wings. Just > picture him hanging upside down! :) He's an amazing cat. He's lucky > to have you! WRONG! Im lucky to have HIM! :):):) Here is another one where he doesnt really look like a cat, but maybe more like a kangaroo or something? (I posted it before and I think someone else said kangaroo...) http://public.fotki.com/kitkatluna/miscellaneous/jasper_dudley/dscf0005.html what a goofball! >> LOL! He kind of reminds me of a bat with folded up wings. Just >> picture him hanging upside down! :) He's an amazing cat. He's >> lucky to have you! >> > WRONG! Im lucky to have HIM! :):):) OK OK LOL My bad. I know exactly what you mean. :) > Here is another one where he doesnt really look like a cat, but > maybe more like a kangaroo or something? (I posted it before and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > what a goofball! Now I see another mammal in him. Lemur! He's got some long toes! LOL! He's just stunning! I call Bonnie a lemur when her claws get long. I just can't clip hers, so she has to go until her yearly for the vet to clip them. Her back ones get really long. SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields > >>http://public.fotki.com/kitkatluna/miscellaneous/jasper_dudley/ds > >>cf0019.html (that 2nd one will be a classic around here!) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > more like a kangaroo or something? (I posted it before and I think > someone else said kangaroo...) http://public.fotki.com/kitkatluna/miscellaneous/jasper_dudley/dscf0005.html Nope. Dachsund. :) >>>>http://public.fotki.com/kitkatluna/miscellaneous/jasper_dudley/ds >>>>cf0019.html (that 2nd one will be a classic around here!) [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Nope. Dachsund. :) Well, he sure acts like a dog!!! :) Rolling over on his tummy for rubs, begging for people food off your plate. Ahhh. Jasper. :) > >>>>http://public.fotki.com/kitkatluna/miscellaneous/jasper_dudley/ds > >>>>cf0019.html (that 2nd one will be a classic around here!) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >>more like a kangaroo or something? (I posted it before and I think > >>someone else said kangaroo...) http://public.fotki.com/kitkatluna/miscellaneous/jasper_dudley/dscf0005.html > > Nope. Dachsund. :) > > > Well, he sure acts like a dog!!! :) Rolling over on his tummy for rubs, > begging for people food off your plate. > > Ahhh. Jasper. :) I think you need to give him a kiss on his chubby little belly for me. :) >>Well, he sure acts like a dog!!! :) Rolling over on his tummy for rubs, >>begging for people food off your plate. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I think you need to give him a kiss on his chubby little belly > for me. :) He sure is a porkster lately. When I posted a pic of him on another board, someone responded "Wow, he's a bit porky for a siamese!". I almost got offended. ;) I'll give him the kiss later...right now he is on the couch behind me snoring. I love the sound of his snore. It is rhythmic and calming. :) > >>Well, he sure acts like a dog!!! :) Rolling over on his tummy for rubs, > >>begging for people food off your plate. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > snoring. I love the sound of his snore. It is rhythmic and calming. > :) He is becoming a stately old gentleman who likes his three (or two?) square meals. Very dignified. Porky does not apply. > He is becoming a stately old gentleman who likes his three > (or two?) square meals. Very dignified. Porky does not apply. really depends on the day. we try to limit it to two, but sometimes he manages a 3rd in there. ;) he is a food finagler! when he wants food, he just goes into the kitchen and sits in his little sentinal position like this: http://public.fotki.com/kitkatluna/miscellaneous/jasper_dudley/homecoming1.html See the carpet behind him? He usually camps out there, until we put down food and then he sniffs his way over to the bowls. When he is there, we call him "Sentinali Ollie". He never ceases to crack us up. He definitely likes to eat! :) > > He is becoming a stately old gentleman who likes his three > > (or two?) square meals. Very dignified. Porky does not apply. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > when he wants food, he just goes into the kitchen and sits in his little > sentinal position like this: http://public.fotki.com/kitkatluna/miscellaneous/jasper_dudley/homecoming1.html > See the carpet behind him? He usually camps out there, until we put down > food and then he sniffs his way over to the bowls. When he is there, we > call him "Sentinali Ollie". He never ceases to crack us up. He > definitely likes to eat! :) He is just so beautiful. Here he looks like the cats they carved on the ancient tombs in Egypt. >>>He is becoming a stately old gentleman who likes his three >>>(or two?) square meals. Very dignified. Porky does not apply. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > He is just so beautiful. Here he looks like the cats they carved on the > ancient tombs in Egypt. Isn't it sad to think that I am his 3rd mommy, with his two previous mommies being old ladies who died. His first mommy died when he was about a year old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder what that first mommy paid for him. > > He is becoming a stately old gentleman who likes his three > > (or two?) square meals. Very dignified. Porky does not apply. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > when he wants food, he just goes into the kitchen and sits in his little > sentinal position like this: http://public.fotki.com/kitkatluna/miscellaneous/jasper_dudley/homecoming1.html > See the carpet behind him? He usually camps out there, until we put down > food and then he sniffs his way over to the bowls. When he is there, we > call him "Sentinali Ollie". He never ceases to crack us up. He > definitely likes to eat! :) whispers quietly in ear - I think I'd stop the 3rd. Not meaning to offend kitty but it might be good to try to get the weight down a tad. It's a PIA to have to put them on a diet when they end up with arthritis and you HAVE to get the weight down. BTDT W >>>He is becoming a stately old gentleman who likes his three >>>(or two?) square meals. Very dignified. Porky does not apply. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > W Well, thanks for the suggestion. ;) But...in all honesty, he came to us a little underweight and has put on a few pounds and is maintaining pretty nicely. The vet agrees that considering his age and health issues, it's better to have him a couple pounds heavy. When he sneaks in a 3rd meal, we try to just divide up his one can a day differently anyway. He thinks he is getting away with something, but most of the time, we are just re-arranging his food portions. ;) we so sneaky! :) pam > >>>He is becoming a stately old gentleman who likes his three > >>>(or two?) square meals. Very dignified. Porky does not apply. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >>when he wants food, he just goes into the kitchen and sits in his little > >>sentinal position like this: http://public.fotki.com/kitkatluna/miscellaneous/jasper_dudley/homecoming1.html > >>See the carpet behind him? He usually camps out there, until we put down > >>food and then he sniffs his way over to the bowls. When he is there, we [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > pam Ah! sneaky is good! > On a side note...it is next to impossible not to startle him when we > come home or even come into the room from another. If you reach down to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > try to enjoy it as part of the set of quirks that come with a unique > character like Jasper. What have you tried in the way of say...vibrations. For example if he is on the couch, you could scratch the far end of the couch, very litely at first...enough to get his attention, or wake him. Then scratch a little louder, cht cht cht... this means he is fixing to get petted. and so on. If he's on the floor, I'm sure a few foot pats would alert him of your approaching. Opposed to screaming and jumping 10 feet in the air. Do you pound the floor with something when you want to call him over to eat? >>On a side note...it is next to impossible not to startle him when we >>come home or even come into the room from another. If you reach down to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > What have you tried in the way of say...vibrations. Now I've got the song "Good Vibrations" in my head. > For example if he is on the couch, you could scratch the far end of the > couch, very litely at first...enough to get his attention, or wake him. > Then scratch a little louder, cht cht cht... this means he is fixing to > get petted. > and so on. We do that stuff. :) > If he's on the floor, I'm sure a few foot pats would alert him of your > approaching. Opposed to screaming and jumping 10 feet in the air. OK FINE. I ADMIT IT. WE LIKE THE SQUEAK! It's funny! And then he rolls over and purrs and is so happy we are home! Seroiusly, we usually try to get his attention first, but sometimes, we just go for the squeak factor. > Do you pound the floor with something when you want to call him over to > eat? You know, it is funny. He never seems to have any trouble hearing us fussing around with his FOOD BOWLS. ;) selective hearing! Pam > > Animals are much more adaptable to handicaps than people.< > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > http://public.fotki.com/kitkatluna/miscellaneous/jasper_dudley/dscf0019.html > (that 2nd one will be a classic around here!) He looks very healthy. What about a simple install of a vibrator, it mounts to the floor, and simply vibrates. It can probably turned up or down. and to work it, there is a button mounted like a doorbell button. Then the cat will know you are home. Without even looking, I am sure there are products like this for deaf and blind people who live alone. Upon checking out a site with products for the deaf and blind, you'll probably see some other things you've been needing solutions for. >> What do you advise a person who is told by two, independent >> competent vets that the bills for his/her cat will run over $5000 in [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Why do people always have to bring up these Sophie's Choice scenarios? Maybe it's a troll dilemma? > > What do you advise a person who is told by two, independent competent vets > > that the bills for his/her cat will run over $5000 in the next year for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Why do people always have to bring up these Sophie's Choice scenarios? It's some sick kind of drama seeking, as far as I can tell. On the part of the truly numb. It's kind of sad if you think about it. > > What do you advise a person who is told by two, independent competent vets > > that the bills for his/her cat will run over $5000 in the next year for [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Why do people always have to bring up these Sophie's Choice scenarios? Don't know- sounds like a Nathan to me. This is almost as bad as the 'death or declaw' scenarios. Phil >> You're right! Your comment about disabled cats being "euthanasia >> candidates" did the trick! Now you're considering getting rid of [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > My position is that the person will make the right decision with > either choice. ARe you saying allocating $5,000 on the cat is an equally correct decision vs. allocating that money toward her asthmatic son's health? Is this what you mean to say? If so, I can hardly contain myself! "Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net> wrote sent > ARe you saying allocating $5,000 on the cat is an equally correct decision > vs. allocating that money toward her asthmatic son's health? Is this what > you mean to say? If so, I can hardly contain myself! I personally am in no position to fault the person for either choice. My reasoning is that I do not put money into saving other people's lives (whereas I easily could save lives in, say, Africa) but instead spend it on my own cats. So if another person likewise prioritizes cats over humans, they are doing as I do. Your opinion is heard, though I think we are probably in more agreement than disagreement on the calculus we would use in making domestic cat and dog spending decisions. I have thought about, for example, a diabetic cat's health maintenance, due to recent events. IIRC on average such cats live only about two years longer after diagnosis. Is a diabetic cat "disabled" or is s/he "unhealthy"? Would Phil P. fault someone for putting down such a cat, on a wager that the money could be spent on giving two more cats (destined for euthanasia at the local shelter) healthy lives? It's his or others' right to do so. It's my right not to make such a judgment. (Hey, how'd you get out of my killfile?!) ;-) > "Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net> wrote > sent [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > spend it on my own cats. So if another person likewise prioritizes > cats over humans, they are doing as I do. snip Then you are childless or really ought to be. "Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.net> wrote E wrote > > I personally am in no position to fault the person for either choice. > > My reasoning is that I do not put money into saving other people's [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Then you are childless or really ought to be. If you don't put money into savings other people's lives, then back at you. > > You're right! Your comment about disabled cats being "euthanasia > > candidates" did the trick! Now you're considering getting rid of your new [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > healthy animal under any circumstances!" Does S.T.A.R.T. euthanize unhealthy > animals? If so, under what circumstances? We euthanize *only* suffering animals that can't be stabalized or when treatment would severly affect the cat's quality of life. > What do you advise a person who is told by two, independent competent vets 'competent vets' is a subjective term. Many incompetent vets they're competent and most people don't know the difference. Many people mistake good bedside manners for competency. > that the bills for his/her cat will run over $5000 in the next year for the > disease the cat has; the cat may not live beyond a year; I had and have many cats right now who were given 6 months to a year to live--- 3 or 4 years ago. So, life-expentancy estimates don't mean much to me unless the cat is overtly deteriorating. Also, some vets make recommendations based on their estimation of the clients' ability to pay. the person can't > afford the $5000 without jeopardizing her recently diagnosed asthmatic son's > health, What are you talking about , here. Asthma meds are cheap- except Flovent which costs about $150/month. but reasons that, with the $200 s/he does have, she can euthanize > the first cat and adopt two new cats? IOW, get rid of the old and defective cats and buy two new ones. Following your idioitic logic, if I euthanized all our senior and special needs cats, we could take in twice as many young cats with many more years to live. > I'm not going to dissect or put down your response. It seems to me these > dilemmas do arise, though, so I'd like to see what you say. Your asking the wrong person; I had to get rid of my kids because my cats were allergic. > My position is that the person will make the right decision with either > choice. LOL! Safe answer- but doesn't say much. > > > Candance. Your tolerance of Phil P's outlandish invectives is that you are > > > living through Phil P. It is that transparent. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > yes, he can be insulting, and he knows that, and just plain doesn't > give a crap. He still helps many, many cats. Do you? Philip is a half-dead, decrepit old grump; he stated that disabled cats are "euthanasia candatates". He and babybarry make a perfect pair of a.sholes- Philip's illerate wife probably carries them together like a six-pack! LOL! you? > Philip is a half-dead, decrepit old grump; he stated that disabled cats are > "euthanasia candatates". He and babybarry make a perfect pair of a.sholes- > Philip's illerate wife probably carries them together like a six-pack! LOL! You K-Mart junkie! >> Philip is a half-dead, decrepit old grump; he stated that disabled >> cats are "euthanasia candatates". He and babybarry make a perfect >> pair of a.sholes- Philip's illerate wife probably carries them >> together like a six-pack! LOL! Ok Phil P. You put "euthanasia candidates" in quotes which means I said those words. Funny thing is, using the search utility here, I found no such words in any post I've ever made to this forum. Matter of fact, I repeated the same search using only the word *euthanasia* ... and the results were also negative. You are a contemptible liar. > >> Philip is a half-dead, decrepit old grump; he stated that disabled > >> cats are "euthanasia candatates". He and babybarry make a perfect [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > You are a contemptible liar. Here's your post, you incompetent, decrepit old scum bag: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthl ink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net.POST ED!1c4c7375!not-for-mail Reply-To: "Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.n0t> From: "Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.n0t> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav References: <d57hjs$peh$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> <VwOde.3438$7F4.2437@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net> <1115186804.826684.295050@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Pet stroller Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2527 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2527 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Message-ID: <7X9ee.5193$V01.3892@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 20:06:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.203.38.54 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net 1115237187 64.203.38.54 (Wed, 04 May 2005 13:06:27 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 13:06:27 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com rec.pets.cats.health+behav:391008 sriddles@aol.com wrote: > Philip wrote: >> Alison wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Sherry A crippled pet ... like you have outlined is a euthanasia candidate. This isn't your sweet gramma Edith who the neighbors know. ------------------------------------------------------------------ FOAD. > What bothered me about this was, I am seeing instability and lack of > control. It is evident through Phil's words that he is thinking about > me getting my butt kicked. Otherwise why bring it up? Maybe he's using the BigBadBarry Teaching Method to train you to think before you post. You know, kind of like thinking before you chew on an electrical cord. Sherry sridd...@aol.com wrote: > > What bothered me about this was, I am seeing instability and lack of > > control. It is evident through Phil's words that he is thinking about [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Sherry Well, I know my cat doesn't chew on anything laying around the house. Are you feeling me? I broke him from it. I didn't talk it out of him, I didn't treat it out of him (this is the SHE-BANG) you are compelling me to keep adding. I stopped him instantly on the spot. Shame on me for saving my cats life, or...him burning the house down by getting fried, or him chewing up something that could be fatal? You do what you want, I need assurance, I have to know that my family is safe. I don't care about wether the cat likes me or not (here comes the SHE-BANG) just because I tagged that behind. I could care less if he liked it or not. People who do not love will not correct; I'm not talking about the method, just the idea of correction. We have varying degrees of correction, the method should suit the situation. It's a judgement call. > sridd...@aol.com wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > People who do not love will not correct; I'm not talking about the > method, just the idea of correction. People who love do not hit. Unless they are f.cked up like your father obviously was. It did not mean that he loved you, Barry. It meant that he was liked to hit creatures smaller than he who trusted him, so that he could control them. It is the easy way out. Fast? You bet. Cruel? Absolutely. Good for you. You are a chip off the old block. <Sex, Lies and Video Tape> You're comments are horrible. You're wrong. To borrow a few lines of a song, just so nobody has a hissy, it's borrowed. ------- If we with ink the ocean filled And were the sky of parchment made Were every tree on earth a quill And every man a scribe by trade To write the truth of me above Would drain the oceans dry. -------- ~~ You don't know me, you have shopped My phrases and words, and cooked up Your own dish and called it Barry. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "daddypop" <bigbadbarry@adelphia.net> >You don't know me, you have shopped >My phrases and words, and cooked up >Your own dish and called it Barry. Since we're getting philosophical, here, let's examine how we "know" people. Since we cannot read minds, we have to use external clues to determine who someone "is". These clues consist of things like appearance, body language, and words. Now, if we confine our analysis to Usenet, we have only words. So how do we "know" someone on Usenet. By what they write, that's how. Now we have one initial judgement that we have to make. Is this person expressing the truth, as they see it, or is this person a liar? If you determine that the person is a liar, you can only conclude that you will never "know" anything about them on Usenet except for the fact that they are a liar. If you determine that they are writing the truth, as they see it, then there are many clues that one can use to "know" the individual. From writing style and use of language we can determine how learned an individual is. Content is another clue. What are the writing about? How are they expressing and supporting their thoughts? How do they interact with others on the group? And far to many things to detail here. So believe it or not. people on Usenet DO know you. - From you're writing, I've determined that you're a somewhat uneducated, unoriginal, self-centered, muckraking, confrontational (but probably not when dealing with someone face to face), arrogant, DOUCHEBAG! But maybe I misjudged you and you're just a fuckin' liar. Either way, f.ck OFF! > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >My phrases and words, and cooked up > >Your own dish and called it Barry. <Snip Qweef> Confusious say: Man who make 28,001 posts have flat a.s. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Confusious say: > Man who make 28,001 posts have flat a.s. Well, good. Barry has discovered Google. Bleah. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "Mary" <marys@catlovernospam.com> >> Confusious say: >> Man who make 28,001 posts have flat a.s. >Well, good. Barry has discovered Google. >Bleah. Well. It's a start. Now if Ol' Braindead Barry could try to Google up "anonymous remailers" he may come to realize how moronic his comment was. > Well. It's a start. Now if Ol' Braindead Barry could > try to Google up "anonymous remailers" he may > come to realize how moronic his comment was. So what does this translate to genius? I don't care if you post 200,000 a day. It costs me nothing. It is of no consequence or value to me, especially when it is a non contributing post. Tell ya what. Tell us something useful about cats. Stop skirting the issue - you probably do not even own a cat. It has occurred to me that visiting this group is a LOT like trying to decide in favor of buying a Harley Davidson. You like bikes (cats). But the more you learn, the more you want to know about specific models (breeds). So you start reading bike (cat) magazines and visiting forums. Then you start meeting bikers (cat enthusiasts). You come to realize that Harley riders with their beer, bikes, and broads (human catfights, compassion fascism, and judgementalism) are NOT the kind of people you want to be associated with. So you decide that the only way you could own a Harley (any cat) is to keep the ownership secret or to get a dog. -Philip (soon to be new owner of an 8 wk old brown tabby kitten) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "daddypop" <bigbadbarry@adelphia.net> >> Well. It's a start. Now if Ol' Braindead Barry could >> try to Google up "anonymous remailers" he may >> come to realize how moronic his comment was. > >So what does this translate to genius? Still don't get it. Do you shit4brains? >I don't care if you post 200,000 a day. It costs me nothing. You're even dumber that I thought. And I thought you were borderline retarded. >It is of no consequence or value to me, especially when it is a non >contributing post. I'm beginning to think that the only thing that matters to you is a fresh tube of KY jelly. >Tell ya what. Tell us something useful about cats. OK. You've never gotten any pussy from anyone that didn't have the same last name as you. Right? >Stop skirting the issue - you probably do not even own a cat. sh.t. You are REALLY stupid! Pal. In a battle of wits, you're unarmed. Go shave your palms now, Junior. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > try to Google up "anonymous remailers" he may > come to realize how moronic his comment was. LOL!!!! OMG, I had not thought about that!!! hahahaha!! It's like when people call you "Nomen" like that is your first name!! -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "Mary" <marys@catlovernospam.com> >LOL!!!! OMG, I had not thought about that!!! >hahahaha!! It's gets even better. I think Barry STILL doesn't get it. > It's like when people call you >"Nomen" like that is your first name!! Well, I guess in this group, I am "Nomen". It's become my identity, here. I've got no problem with that. And as Ol' Willie S. wrote "What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other word would smell as sweet." > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > It's gets even better. I think Barry STILL doesn't > get it. He really doesn't. > > It's like when people call you > >"Nomen" like that is your first name!! [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "What's in a name? That which we call a rose By > any other word would smell as sweet." Do you live near LA by chance? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "Mary" <marys@catlovernospam.com> >Do you live near LA by chance? I must be missing something. What's the significance of LA. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I must be missing something. What's the significance > of LA. The dickhead Philip has given the beautiful red tabby Conan back to the kill shelter because he has a UTI. Philip lives in LA. I thought you might know someone who could place a flaming bag of dog poo on his doorstep. ;) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "Mary" <marys@catlovernospam.com> >The dickhead Philip has given the beautiful red tabby >Conan back to the kill shelter because he has a UTI. What an a.shole. I know that type of thing happens every day, but then the sociopath starts posting like "So what, I took him back. I ain't gonna lose any sleep over it. Oh, and I got a kitten". I can't say that I've ever felt this level of contempt for anyone that I've ever encountered on Usenet, before. I hope he's just an accomplished troll. But I think he's for real. >Philip lives in LA. I thought you might know someone >who could place a flaming bag of dog poo on his >doorstep. ;) I live on the other side of the country and he's lucky that he doesn't live in my neighborhood. Let's just say that I think the guy would be packing up and moving in the near future. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "daddypop" <bigbadbarry@adelphia.net> >Confusious say: >Man who make 28,001 posts have flat a.s. "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."- Confucius > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."- Confucius I can't argue with that, but I do stand corrected on something, it was 86,000 posts. I know all about google..If I had enough hard drive and heavy enough processors, I've got my own search engine that will index the entire web. Now the man who writes a script to query the deep web, now he's got something. (too many variables) Otherwise! Confusion say: Man who make 86,000 post have very comfy chair. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > "Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance."- Confucius I can't argue with that, but I do stand corrected on something, it was 86,000 posts. I know all about google..If I had enough hard drive and heavy enough processors, I've got my own search engine that will index the entire web. Now the man who writes a script to query the deep web, now he's got something. (too many variables) Otherwise! Confusion say: Man who make 86,000 post have very comfy chair. snip > People who do not love will not correct; I'm not talking about the > method, just the idea of correction. We have varying degrees of > correction, the method should suit the situation. It's a judgement > call. Narcissistic people who are desperate to be loved are loathed to correct. > snip > > People who do not love will not correct; I'm not talking about the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Narcissistic people who are desperate to be loved are loathed to correct. Scumbag a.sholes who are emotionally and morally bankrupt generally use the most expeditious means to control--such as intimidation. We have varying degrees of > correction, the method should suit the situation. It's a judgement call. The only judgement you have is *poor* judgement. You're not smart enough to teach a cat without using force. You're insecure and weak-minded- that's why you want to be the 'big cat'. You're actually a spineless coward. That's why you scare so easily. You wouldn't dare try your methods on an animal your own size who can fight back. > The only judgement you have is *poor* judgement. You're not smart enough to > teach a cat without using force. You're insecure and weak-minded- that's > why you want to be the 'big cat'. You're actually a spineless coward. > That's why you scare so easily. You wouldn't dare try your methods on an > animal your own size who can fight back. psssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!! pssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!!! I'm bored with you now YOU GO NOW! > > The only judgement you have is *poor* judgement. You're not smart enough to > > teach a cat without using force. You're insecure and weak-minded- that's [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > YOU GO NOW! That's right- tuck tail and run you spineless moronic coward! That's the smartest move you can make. Go back to your kiddy chatrooms. ..|.. > > > The only judgement you have is *poor* judgement. You're not smart > enough to [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > That's right- tuck tail and run you spineless moronic coward! That's the > smartest move you can make. Go back to your kiddy chatrooms. ..|.. Here Phil, use this one instead. ;> /"\ |\./| | | | | /''\| |/''\.. /~\| | | | \ | | | | | \ | | | | | \ | ~ ~ ~ ~ | | / \ / \ / \ ___ / Hugs, CatNipped Just to clarify, that wasn't directed *at* you, but was offered to you for you to use. Hugs, CatNipped > Just to clarify, that wasn't directed *at* you, but was offered to you for > you to use. I knew that- at least I hope so! ;-) I better tell Chatter- she thought you directed at me. Here's her reaction: http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Chatter-wokenup.JPG LOL! Phil > > Just to clarify, that wasn't directed *at* you, but was offered to you for > > you to use. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Phil ROTFLMAO! I do *SO* love a cat with attitude! ;> Hugs, CatNipped > ROTFLMAO! I do *SO* love a cat with attitude! ;> > > Hugs, > > CatNipped Great to see you have not resorted to negativity to get the desired response. Actually, great to see you act human! > > > Just to clarify, that wasn't directed *at* you, but was offered to you > for [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > ROTFLMAO! I do *SO* love a cat with attitude! ;> That's nothin'! When Jade o' mine was a kitten, I gave her so much attention that I drove her up the walls-- literally! LOL http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Jade-o-mine-climb.jpg > > > > Just to clarify, that wasn't directed *at* you, but was offered to you > > for [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > http://www.maxshouse.com/Ours/Jade-o-mine-climb.jpg That's sooooooooooo cute! Sammy made *ME* climb the walls with her antics - she was always, "In your face!" ;> http://www.possibleplaces.com/CatNipped/Sammy3/DCP_1501.jpg Hugs, CatNipped > > > > The only judgement you have is *poor* judgement. You're not smart > > enough to [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > CatNipped I love it! Thanks! Phil > /"\ > |\./| [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > CatNipped Man, I really love this group!!!! > > What bothered me about this was, I am seeing instability and lack of > > control. It is evident through Phil's words that he is thinking about [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > before you post. You know, kind of like thinking before you chew on an > electrical cord. Okay, okay. Now you made me laugh out loud. With your "female logic." Now this *is* female logic!! Wa hahahaha! > Okay, okay. Now you made me laugh out loud. With your "female > logic." Now this *is* female logic!! Wa hahahaha! It's a common term used for writing programs (the kind of programs that run on computers) Considering what it is used for, I think it's a very fitting term. Nope, no prisoners today. Noone in your little torture chamber, poor Mary. Your like Sherry, you want someone to crucify. > > Okay, okay. Now you made me laugh out loud. With your "female > > logic." Now this *is* female logic!! Wa hahahaha! [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Your like Sherry, you want someone to crucify. You bet. Jerkoffs who hit cats and think it is the right thing to do and advise others to do it fit the bill quite nicely. Only you "crucified" yourself with your aggressive stupidity. You're wrong. It is not right or fair to hit cats. It is the cruel and easy way out for a Big Man like you. a.shole. hitting--NOT--nudging--yes. Mercy! >> > Okay, okay. Now you made me laugh out loud. With your "female >> > logic." Now this *is* female logic!! Wa hahahaha! [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >You're wrong. It is not right or fair to hit cats. It is the cruel and easy >way out for a Big Man like you. a.shole. > hitting--NOT--nudging--yes. > > Mercy! So, Jen, your definition of "busting the cat's a.s" is "nudging?" > >> > Okay, okay. Now you made me laugh out loud. With your "female > >> > logic." Now this *is* female logic!! Wa hahahaha! [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > >You're wrong. It is not right or fair to hit cats. It is the cruel and easy > >way out for a Big Man like you. a.shole. > > hitting--NOT--nudging--yes. > > > > Mercy! > > So, Jen, your definition of "busting the cat's a.s" is "nudging?" One of my foster kittens is obsessed with electrical cords. There are none anywhere in the foster room, but she likes to climb under the desk and play there when I let them out. The only option I have is to pick her up and move her elsewhere. Repeatedly. I would hope that's what Jen meant by 'nudging.' The scoop and dump. Scoop them up and away from the danger zone and put them down in a safe spot with a positive, safe toy. I named her aptly. Goat. She chews on everything. Anyone have a solution to that? Anyone? Please? ...help? > > > hitting--NOT--nudging--yes. > > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > chews on everything. Anyone have a solution to that? Anyone? Please? > ...help? Don't believe everything you read. Some people just have pet theories, they don't work, but hell since they wrote it they may as well stick to thier guns. Do what your common sense tells you to do. > One of my foster kittens is obsessed with electrical cords. There are none > anywhere in the foster room, but she likes to climb under the desk and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > chews on everything. Anyone have a solution to that? Anyone? Please? > ...help? Spray the cords with bitter apple. Or, contain the cords in those tubing-like things. I forget if they have an actual name, but they are like small pieces of tubing that you put the cords in to make them look more neat and oraganized. Probably CrapUSA or Best Buy has them. Signature-Kelly > > One of my foster kittens is obsessed with electrical cords. There are none > > anywhere in the foster room, but she likes to climb under the desk and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > -- > -Kelly Good suggestions. Phil talked about something like that once, a type of tubing, and described in detail what to buy, and how to put them on the cords. Maybe he'll repost that and save me from googling. I have a friend who makes "scrunchies" for her lamp cords. They're more attractive, if you care about such things, and her cats lost interest in the cords once they were covered with fabric. May not deter other cats though. Sherry > Good suggestions. Phil talked about something like that once, a type of > tubing, and described in detail what to buy, and how to put them on the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > in the cords once they were covered with fabric. May not deter other > cats though. I mentioned automotive vacuum hosing because it has very thick walls (to protect it from high engine temps) and its very flexible. Simple cut a slit down the length of the hose and wrap it over the wires. No need to disconnect the wires. Also, since the hose comes in a wide range of inside diameters (from 1/8" to 1"), you can place several wires inside of one hose. The hose is sold by the foot, so, you can cut it to size easily with an X-acto knife or Dahle sissors. Phil >> Good suggestions. Phil talked about something like that once, a type of >> tubing, and described in detail what to buy, and how to put them on the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >Phil A simple quick fix for a short piece of cord is to crush a 2" wide strip of tinfoil around the cord. -mhd |
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