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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / June 2005Genetics paper on SE Asian origin of Abyssinians???
I have seen many statements like those quoted below on webpages about Abyssinians... but none of them actually gives any references for these "genetic studies". Does anybody have the details of the published scientific papers (if any) that described these findings? Many thanks, Jane "Genetic Research indicates they descended from a breed found in Southeast Asia and the coast of the Indian Ocean." "Some genetic research points to India and Southeast Asia as the country of origin for these cats. It is believed that ancestors of the breed where brought to England from Calcutta by British merchants." "Recent genetic studies have suggested that the Abyssinian cat probably originated in Southeast Asia, and not Africa." "Abyssinians cats are sleek muscular domestic cats and although their origins remain a mystery, geneticists believe that they originated in Southeast Asia." > I have seen many statements like those quoted below on webpages > about Abyssinians... but none of them actually gives any references > for these "genetic studies". Does anybody have the details of the > published scientific papers (if any) that described these findings? I don't know of any papers that specifically look at Aby genetics in relation to the origin of the breed. In fact, I think Abys were effectively Vorsprung Durch Technik by Brits in the late 1800s - not sure there's any actual evidence that the breeding stock came from outside of the UK (e.g., Ethiopia), just anecdotes. The cat genome project might help: http://home.ncifcrf.gov/ccr/lgd/publications/catpubs_n.asp Or it might not... Have you tried mailing the people who wrote the articles you quoted from? Steve. Thanks for taking the time to reply, Steve. I hadn't thought of e-mailing the authors of the web pages - mainly because they seem to have copied each other almost verbatim - but I'll give it a go. I'm interested in ticked tabbies in general, rather than just Abyssinians. Here's a picture of the reason why: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/janes10016/detail?.dir=537f&.dnm=d897.jpg (He's called Jack. I think this pic shows his coat fairly well.) As you probably know, Abyssinians have the homozygous form of the ticking gene, while cats like Jack are heterozygous (and get the snazzy neck, leg and tail rings that the Abyssinian breeders hate). I am trying to find out whether the gene for ticking has always been found in the British moggie population, or whether all UK cats with ticked coats are the descendants of Abyssinians or other ticked breeds that originated elsewhere. I would love Jack to be a ticked moggie of totally non-purebred UK descent. I can't find any papers on the frequency of the gene in any population, British, African or SE Asian. The cat genome page doesn't reference any either. I have access to databases of scientific papers... I am beginning to conclude that the rumour of the SE origin papers has been spread around the internet by Chinese whispers. Perhaps Abys were invented de novo from mogs like Jack, as you suggest. Best wishes and thanks again, Jane >> I have seen many statements like those quoted below on webpages >> about Abyssinians... but none of them actually gives any [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Steve. > Thanks for taking the time to reply, Steve. I hadn't thought of > e-mailing the authors of the web pages - mainly because they seem > to have copied each other almost verbatim - but I'll give it a go. Yes, finding the original original might be a challenge. Or maybe it's like one of them thar time travelling parodoxes where the first author copied it from themself. > I'm interested in ticked tabbies in general, rather than just > Abyssinians. Here's a picture of the reason why: > http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/janes10016/detail?.dir=537f&.dnm=d897.jpg > (He's called Jack. I think this pic shows his coat fairly well.) Yes. Nice cat, and the coat is Abyesque. Face is unlike a modern Aby, but I think recent breeding has altered the Aby fizzog somewhat. > As you probably know, Abyssinians have the homozygous form of the > ticking gene, while cats like Jack are heterozygous (and get the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > breeds that originated elsewhere. I would love Jack to be a ticked > moggie of totally non-purebred UK descent. Well, given that cats are not native to the UK (well, other than the Scottish wildcat) the ticked coat must have originated from outside the UK! I would be very surprised if Aby coat appearance in moggies is invariably a consequence of an Aby in the mog's line somewhere: Ticked coats a la Aby are very common in many species (e.g., rabbits, for the bunny-cat connection) and I would expect the coat type to occur, as in Jack, 'naturally'. (...) > doesn't reference any either. I have access to databases of > scientific papers... I am beginning to conclude that the rumour of > the SE origin papers has been spread around the internet by Chinese > whispers. Perhaps Abys were invented de novo from mogs like Jack, > as you suggest. I think the rumour predates the wonderful Interweb, but as the web weaves its magic, rumour starts to become fact... Abys also virtually died out in the UK around WW2, I think, but I don't know how they were reinvigorated - whether by importing Abys, or by adding new moggy blood into the mix. Let us know if you find the answer... Steve. >> I'm interested in ticked tabbies in general, rather than just >> Abyssinians. Here's a picture of the reason why: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/janes10016/detail?.dir=537f&.dnm=d897.jpg >> (He's called Jack. I think this pic shows his coat fairly well.) > > Yes. Nice cat, and the coat is Abyesque. Face is unlike a modern > Aby, but I think recent breeding has altered the Aby fizzog > somewhat. I think that Jack has a nicer face than Abys do, but then I am hopelessly biased. >> As you probably know, Abyssinians have the homozygous form of >> the ticking gene, while cats like Jack are heterozygous (and get [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the Scottish wildcat) the ticked coat must have originated from > outside the UK! Believe it or not, I know that housecats aren't native to the UK :) What I meant was that if a moggie turned up with Siamese markings, it would be assumed that it had some Siamese ancestry, but it would be silly to assume that a longhaired tabby mog had to be descended from a pedigree Norwegian Forest Cat - and I was wondering where ticked tabbies stood compared to these two extremes. > I would be very surprised if Aby coat appearance in moggies is > invariably a consequence of an Aby in the mog's line somewhere: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > don't know how they were reinvigorated - whether by importing > Abys, or by adding new moggy blood into the mix. Roger Tabor in his book "CATS: The Rise of the Cat" calls these cats agoutis. He has a picture that is captioned "A young, beautifully marked agouti cat in the streets of Bangkok responds to a passing dog with the classic posture of fear/aggression": http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/janes10016/detail?.dir=ff60&.dnm=d7f8.jpg Anyway, in the same book Tabor writes: "Breeders eliminated the leg markings of early Abyssinians, but on the cross-breed Abyssinian it reappears. This original agouti pattern of the Abyssinian is found in Russia, giving credence to Harrison Weir's "Russian" name, although agoutis are found mainly from India to Singapore and may therefore be a south-east Asian mutation. Yet, as the agouti is dotted around the world, are these relic of a much earlier population?" ...So, another reference to ticked tabbies from SE Asia. The African wildcat can have a ticked tabby coat: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/janes10016/detail?.dir=ff60&.dnm=f277.jpg&.src=ph (Pic filched from the Jan '03 issue of the BBC Wildlife magazine.) To me, this suggests that maybe the ticked tabby coat gene could have always been found in the domestic cat population. If the almost mythical genetic studies showing a SE Asian origin for Abyssinians do exist, perhaps Abys were bred from cats from this region, as the ticking gene is common there, but that doesn't mean that the gene hasn't always existed in other random breeding populations. And, as you say, agouti-type coats are common in many mammals. BTW, the African wildcat's coat seems to be pretty variable, with striped, spotted and ticked tabby patterns: http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=African%20wildcat&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wi Best wishes, Jane > The African wildcat can have a ticked tabby coat: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/janes10016/detail?.dir=ff60&.dnm=f277.jpg&.src=ph > (Pic filched from the Jan '03 issue of the BBC Wildlife magazine.) > > To me, this suggests that maybe the ticked tabby coat gene could > have always been found in the domestic cat population. Do you mean the hairs being several colors? Or what do you mean by "ticked?" >> The African wildcat can have a ticked tabby coat: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Do you mean the hairs being several colors? Or what do you mean >by "ticked?" I get the impression Daisy is a "ticked" tabby: http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/daisy.jpg > >> The African wildcat can have a ticked tabby coat: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/daisy.jpg Yes! That is what I though the OP meant. My Cheeky is a ticked tabby, too. Her fur looks like each hair is a different color or even more than one color. (...) > Yes! That is what I though the OP meant. My Cheeky is a ticked tabby, too. > Her fur looks like each hair is a different color or even more than one > color. Not quite - the OP's referring to the Aby-tabby. Eq's pic isn't an Aby tabby, it's a classic / mackerel tabby. Eq's cat is ticked - I think most tabbys are, as you'd expect indeed, given that the ticking (agouti) gene is dominant (IIRC). The Aby-tabby (homozygous for the Aby-tabby alleles) has no markings on the body, but does to a certain extent on the legs / head. The Aby-tabby gene is dominant over Mackerel, though Aby+Mackerel will have a faded Mackeral tabby pattern... ...Assuming I've remembered all that correctly. Can't be arsed to Google today, and I may be conflating this with Gerbil genetics..! S. > (...) > > Yes! That is what I though the OP meant. My Cheeky is a ticked tabby, too. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > S. Very interesting! But I just wanted to know if Cheeky is ticked. And she is. Especially when I pet her for too long and love her and squeeze her and kiss her ... etc. ... *ba boom!* > (...) >> Yes! That is what I though the OP meant. My Cheeky is a ticked [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Aby-tabby gene is dominant over Mackerel, though Aby+Mackerel > will have a faded Mackeral tabby pattern... Mary, as Steve said, ticked tabbies don't have stripes on their torso. All of the fur on their trunk has the multicoloured banded hairs that other tabbies have between the black stripes. Here's a pic of my cat, Jack, that shows this quite well: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/janes10016/detail?.dir=537f&.dnm=ecda.jpg&.src=ph (He is asking "Why are you messing about on the stairs with that camera when you could be feeding me?") Here are some other ticked tabbies I've come across on the web: http://www.ratemykitten.com/ratemy/kitten?image=25533 http://fergusmurray.members.beeb.net/pets.htm Jack and the other cats above have the heterozygous version of the ticked gene; pedigree Abyssinians (and Somalis and Singapuras) have the homozygous version, and don't have striping on their legs or neck: http://www.carringbush.net/~pml/images/gwen&cec.jpg http://absolutelycats.tripod.com/ZAbyssinianOhMy.jpg Best wishes, Jane > > (...) > >> Yes! That is what I though the OP meant. My Cheeky is a ticked [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > torso. All of the fur on their trunk has the multicoloured banded > hairs that other tabbies have between the black stripes. Oh, okay! Now I understand. That makes it very clear. Thanks! Here's a > pic of my cat, Jack, that shows this quite well: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/janes10016/detail?.dir=537f&.dnm=ecda.jpg&.src=ph > (He is asking "Why are you messing about on the stairs with that > camera when you could be feeding me?") Or: "what do you MEAN I've had too much caffeine?" What a gorgeous boy, and I love his name too. >>>(...) >>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Or: "what do you MEAN I've had too much caffeine?" What a gorgeous > boy, and I love his name too. i simply love pix of cats with their mouths open! cracks me up EVERY time! (...) > Mary, as Steve said, ticked tabbies don't have stripes on their > torso. All of the fur on their trunk has the multicoloured banded > hairs that other tabbies have between the black stripes. I think this is a source of some of the confusion, the terminology: All tabbies have some ticked (multicoloured) hairs, but the term 'ticked' is usually only applied to an *entire cat* when it has no tabby markings on the body. So, non-ticked tabbies still have some ticked hairs (!). Useleless snippet: An archaic term for Abys is 'Ticks'. > Jack and the other cats above have the heterozygous version of the > ticked gene; pedigree Abyssinians (and Somalis and Singapuras) have > the homozygous version, and don't have striping on their legs or > neck: However I think it's the case that T[a]T[a] can still lead to 'faulty' striping, i.e., don't think T[a]T[a] *guarantees* no striping. (Wonder if it's possible for T[a]X to lead to striping that's actually as faint as a 'faulty' T[a]T[a] cat? Dunno.) S. (...) > I think that Jack has a nicer face than Abys do, but then I am > hopelessly biased. When it comes to preferences, we're all biased. (...) > Believe it or not, I know that housecats aren't native to the UK :) I was just being facetious. (...) > Roger Tabor in his book "CATS: The Rise of the Cat" calls these cats > agoutis. Yes - and as you say, this is the term usually applied for this form of coat outside of catdom. (...) > To me, this suggests that maybe the ticked tabby coat gene could > have always been found in the domestic cat population. If the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > populations. And, as you say, agouti-type coats are common in many > mammals. Yes. Mind you, I suspect that the agouti coat would be naturally selected for in desert climes, but would be less favoured in other areas, such as the UK. Agouti coats do seem especially common in desert mammals (e.g., gerbils). But I'll bet that the answer you seek, you'll never find... S. >>> I'm interested in ticked tabbies in general, rather than just >>> Abyssinians. Here's a picture of the reason why: [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] > > Jane That is one cute cat! MLB > That is one cute cat! MLB Thanks! Assuming you meant Jack, here's my favourite pic of him as a kitten: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/janes10016/detail?.dir=537f&.dnm=7b11.jpg&.src=ph (This is my favourite photo of his sister, Sophie, when young. I love the positioning of her ears: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/janes10016/detail?.dir=537f&.dnm=2d2c.jpg&.src=ph ) Jane >>That is one cute cat! MLB > > Thanks! Assuming you meant Jack, here's my favourite pic of him as > a kitten: > http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/janes10016/detail?.dir=537f&.dnm=7b11.jpg&.src=ph That could be the greatest cat pic YET! DAMN! soooo cute! :) > > That is one cute cat! MLB > > Thanks! Assuming you meant Jack, here's my favourite pic of him as > a kitten: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/janes10016/detail?.dir=537f&.dnm=7b11.jpg&.src=ph Whoa!! Hilarious! |
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