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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / June 2005Abbey's ultrasound/no good news
Abbey just got back from her ultrasound (echocardiogram). She has no heart problems; we were hoping she would have heart disease that could be treated. Her lungs are badly scarred from the chyle, which we knew. She has a mass of about 1" x 3/4" that they cannot tell if it's a tumor at the base of her heart or just especially thick scarring. They cannot really biopsy it because of location. Even if it's a tumor, her lung damage is so bad that it can't be reversed. They didn't tap her chest again because the fluid that is in there right now is accumulated in several small pockets and would require many sticks. Her breathing is not currently labored. They don't know if they can do taps in the future; they can try but if it's in these pockets, it's not going to work. They did not see any holes in her thoracic wall. We are now just going to treat her with lasix and rutin, as we have done, and watch her quality of life. I think they were telling me that it may be time to let her go when she declines again...could be days, could be weeks. I guess the lung damage is the major issue. So, I guess there isn't much hope at this point. I hope she doesn't need to be PTS before Tony gets back from China. On 6/17 we will have had her 4 years, having found her abandoned in a desert park as a tiny baby. Candace > So, I guess there isn't much hope at this point. I hope she doesn't > need to be PTS before Tony gets back from China. On 6/17 we will have > had her 4 years, having found her abandoned in a desert park as a tiny > baby. > > Candace Very sorry to hear this. It seems like cats just get sweeter the more they are around, my cat is such a part of me. I am sorry to hear your report. Thoughts and prayers Barry > Abbey just got back from her ultrasound (echocardiogram). She has no > heart problems; we were hoping she would have heart disease that could [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Candace I'm really sorry, Candace :( Spoil her as much as possible. > Abbey just got back from her ultrasound (echocardiogram). She has no > heart problems; we were hoping she would have heart disease that could [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Candace Candace, I am so, so sorry! Think if it as 4 years that you gave Abbey that she otherwise would not have had. There is no way she would have lived that long if you hadn't taken her in.  Signature-Kelly > So, I guess there isn't much hope at this point. I hope she doesn't > need to be PTS before Tony gets back from China. On 6/17 we will have > had her 4 years, having found her abandoned in a desert park as a tiny > baby. I'm so sorry, Candace. .. On 6/17 we will have > had her 4 years, having found her abandoned in a desert park as a tiny > baby. > > Candace Hugs for you and Tony and skritches for Abbey. Annie > Abbey just got back from her ultrasound (echocardiogram). She has no > heart problems; we were hoping she would have heart disease that could [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > had her 4 years, having found her abandoned in a desert park as a tiny > baby. Oh no. You can't imagine how much I'm hoping this will resolve. If the rutin resolves the chylo, she can still have a decent quality of life. If her fibrosing pleuritis was as bad the ultrasonographer thinks, she would have difficulty breathing because she wouldn't be able to expand her lungs- and she isn't. Candance, make your decisions based on Abbey- not the numbers or opinions. Cats are infamous for making liars of vets! My best hopes and wishes, Phil > Oh no. You can't imagine how much I'm hoping this will resolve. If the > rutin resolves the chylo, she can still have a decent quality of life. If > her fibrosing pleuritis was as bad the ultrasonographer thinks, she would > have difficulty breathing because she wouldn't be able to expand her lungs- > and she isn't. Well, she doesn't breathe *normally," it's faster than my other cats breathe. And you can see her ribs because of her sides being shaved from the chest taps and you can tell that it isn't normal breathing. So there is some difficulty, it just isn't stopping her from eating, playing, sleeping, hanging out yet. She's not getting her full rutin dose. She's very, very hard to pill and the lasix is all I can get down her regularly so I grind the rutin up and put it on her canned food. If I put too much on, she won't eat it, so it's a delicate balance. I've tried all the suggestions people have made to pill her but, with her, the hard part is *getting* her. Once I get her, I can pill her although she's not too pleased. So liquids, syringes, etc. aren't the issue. Right now she's hiding from me, she knows I can't be trusted. And that makes me sad that during her last days she will be avoiding me instead of being pampered. Tony is her favorite and he's not here for another 12 days. I tried sticking a lasix in her chicken tonight, she loves chicken so she's going to get it everyday. The chicken is eaten but the lasix is on the floor. I'm going to try to grind that up, too, and put it in her food but it probably won't work either. > Candance, make your decisions based on Abbey- not the numbers or opinions. > Cats are infamous for making liars of vets! I hope so. Candace I've tried all the suggestions people > have made to pill her but, with her, the hard part is *getting* her. > Once I get her, I can pill her although she's not too pleased. So [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > her food but it probably won't work either. > Candace Candace, Can you get those raisins with a candy type coating? They're called yoghurt raisins. We usually had some in a candy dish on the coffee table. I ask this because we once had a little dog, Heidi, who took lasix when she developed congestive heart failure. Instead of pilling her twice a day, I decided to make a slit in a yoghurt raisin with my thumbnail and insert a lasix pill and gave one to her at 7 a.m. and the second at 7 p.m. Mac, one of our cats, noticed that Heidi was getting a lot of attention at the candy dish and came over and sat next to her. So, I gave Mac a yoghurt raisin without the pill and he loved it. It became a routine. Twice a day Heidi and Mac would sit by the table with the candy dish, waiting for the treat. If I was a little late, Heidi came to remind me. (Of course, she got a little confused when we switched between Daylight Saving time and Standard.) If Abbey will eat a raisin (with or without the candy coating), maybe you could slip the lasix in it and get her to take it that way. If it works, she might start to trust you again and come asking for her "treat" instead of running away. I'm sure it's hard on both of you with Tony gone for so long. It's probably hard on him, too being away and not there to help. Hugs to all of you. Annie >If Abbey will eat a raisin (with or without the candy coating), maybe you >could slip the lasix in it and get her to take it that way. If it works, >she might start to trust you again and come asking for her "treat" instead >of running away. This is a very bery bad idea. Raisins and grapes are toxic to dogs and cats. There is no current 'safe' or 'unsafe' dose, as the mechanism of poisoning is unknown at this time. Do not give grapes or raisins to cats or dogs. http://www.aspca.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=16645 http://www.hilltopanimalhospital.com/grapes%20toxic.htm Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid > On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 17:24:58 -0500, "Annie Wxill" ...> This is a very bery bad idea. Raisins and grapes are toxic to > dogs and cats. There is no current 'safe' or 'unsafe' dose, as the > mechanism of poisoning is unknown at this time. Do not give grapes or > raisins to cats or dogs. > > http://www.aspca.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=16645 > http://www.hilltopanimalhospital.com/grapes%20toxic.htm > Orchid Wow! I had no idea. I even mentioned it to the vet at the time, and he didn't give any warnings not to give the raisins. Neither the dog nor cat showed any unusual symptoms. The dog lived another year with congestive heart failure on the two-raisin a day with lasix routine. It was the heart failure that eventually did her in. The cat lived longer, but we stopped the daily raisins when the dog died. So, maybe we got lucky. Annie > Wow! I had no idea. I even mentioned it to the vet at the time, and he > didn't give any warnings not to give the raisins. Neither the dog nor cat [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the daily raisins when the dog died. So, maybe we got lucky. > Annie Well, it sounded like a good idea although Abbey is not one for enjoying people food much. Chicken is her only weakness. So I was going to try the yogurt raisin thing as soon as I could remember where I saw them recently but I guess I won't now. Chicken is hard to hide a pill in as it falls apart easily. Fortunately, she has been eating her food today with the ground up lasix and rutin in it. Candace ...> Fortunately, she has been eating her food today with the ground up > lasix and rutin in it. > Candace I hope she continues to take her medicine that way. You just never know with cats. Annie > Well, it sounded like a good idea although Abbey is not one for > enjoying people food much. Chicken is her only weakness. So I was > going to try the yogurt raisin thing as soon as I could remember where > I saw them recently but I guess I won't now. Will Abbey eat cheese? I used to hide pills in a small cube of cheese when I had to pill a cat of mine. Most cats seem to like cheese. I think it's the stink factor. Lauren Hi Candace, Sorry things aren't looking so great for Abbey. It's tough -- all of the decisions when they are so sick, how much to do for them, the feelings of guilt when trying to treat them even though you are doing things to help them. I hope to gawd she perks up and is feeling better when Tony gets home. In the meantime, is there another treat you could give her with her pills? I know that dance of not "poisoning" their food with medicine so that they just stop eating. Is there something else, like beef baby food or a cooked meat that is a complete treat to her and could hide the pill? We had a cat that loved yogart but was not allowed to have it often. We added pills to that when she was very ill. Good luck with Abbey. She seems like a very strong cat, and feisty enough to keep going for a long time to come! Rhonda > She's not getting her full rutin dose. She's very, very hard to pill > and the lasix is all I can get down her regularly so I grind the rutin [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Once I get her, I can pill her although she's not too pleased. So > liquids, syringes, etc. aren't the issue. > > Oh no. You can't imagine how much I'm hoping this will resolve. If the > > rutin resolves the chylo, she can still have a decent quality of life. If [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > breathe. And you can see her ribs because of her sides being shaved > from the chest taps and you can tell that it isn't normal breathing. Candace, email me with a mailing address, I'll send you an Areochamber and a bronchial dilator (albuterol) . This will dilate her airways and allow her RBCs to carry more O2. The increased O2 intake will help make her lungs pump more O2 with less work and compensate for her restricted lung expansion caused by the fibrosing pleuritis. Here's what an Aerochamber looks like and how it works: http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_asthma_and_bronchitis.htm http://www.maxshouse.com/inhalation_therapy_for_airway_disease.htm > So there is some difficulty, it just isn't stopping her from eating, > playing, sleeping, hanging out yet. > > She's not getting her full rutin dose. She's very, very hard to pill See: http://www.maxshouse.com/Medicating_Your_Cat.htm Don't make a big deal of pilling- pet her as if nothing is happening- Hold the pill in your left hand and tilt her head back with your right hand squeezing your your thumb and middle finger to open her mouth at the same time. In the same continious motion, just drop the pill into her laryngopharynx. Hold her mouth shut and blow in her face or scratch the base of her tail until she licks her lips- this means she swallowed the pill. I use this technique on *ferals*- so I know it works! ;-) > and the lasix is all I can get down her regularly so I grind the rutin > up and put it on her canned food. If I put too much on, she won't eat [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > makes me sad that during her last days she will be avoiding me instead > of being pampered. Don't chase her or restrain her. Hold and pet her a few times before you use my technique so she doesn't associate holding and petting with pilling. The trick to pilling is *speed*. Once you get the hang of it- its over before she knows what happened. Tony is her favorite and he's not here for another > 12 days. I think she'll breeze through another 12 days until he's home. > I tried sticking a lasix in her chicken tonight, she loves chicken so > she's going to get it everyday. The chicken is eaten but the lasix is > on the floor. I'm going to try to grind that up, too, and put it in > her food but it probably won't work either. After you grind up the pill, wet your finger, pick up a little medication on you finger and put a dab on her nose. The medication on her nose wills satiate her olfactory system- and licking it off will will satiate her gustatory system so that the rest of the medication in the food will be eaten undetected. Sounds crazy but it works. > > Candance, make your decisions based on Abbey- not the numbers or opinions. > > Cats are infamous for making liars of vets! > > I hope so. Candace, I'm not just saying this to give you false hope. One of my vets is a Diplomate of the ACVECC. He has pulled more cats through no-win situations than I can remember- when local vets saw no hope and recomended euthanasia. A vet's opinion is only based on his experience- doesn't mean its carved in stone or absolute. Not many vets have expereince with chylo cats. Several vets recommended euthanasia for our chylo cats- who were in pretty bad shape for awhile. They're still kicking years later. It may be hard not to anthropomophize, but a cat's basic instinct is survival- they don't attach the same emotional bondage to treatment- no matter how intense it is- that we do. They've proven that to me time and again. Just try to think like a cat- with the only objective of survival and you'll pull her through. I don't say this to many people- but Sherry also will attest to the cat's indomitable spirit! Keep the faith! Phil > Candace, email me with a mailing address, I'll send you an Areochamber and a > bronchial dilator (albuterol) . This will dilate her airways and allow her > RBCs to carry more O2. The increased O2 intake will help make her lungs > pump more O2 with less work and compensate for her restricted lung expansion > caused by the fibrosing pleuritis. I just did, thanks! I hope I had the right email address. With Google, you can't see the full email address. > http://www.maxshouse.com/Medicating_Your_Cat.htm > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > base of her tail until she licks her lips- this means she swallowed the > pill. I use this technique on *ferals*- so I know it works! ;-) Actually, I can pill pretty well. With Abbey, it's *getting* her. She doesn't trust me anymore. Tonight I got her while she was sleeping, though, and it didn't seem to traumatize her. > I think she'll breeze through another 12 days until he's home. I hope so. It worries me that they don't think they can tap her again, though. That leaves me with zero options. > After you grind up the pill, wet your finger, pick up a little medication on > you finger and put a dab on her nose. The medication on her nose wills > satiate her olfactory system- and licking it off will will satiate her > gustatory system so that the rest of the medication in the food will be > eaten undetected. Sounds crazy but it works. Okay, I'll try that. > It may be hard not to anthropomophize, but a cat's basic instinct is > survival- they don't attach the same emotional bondage to treatment- no > matter how intense it is- that we do. They've proven that to me time and > again. Just try to think like a cat- with the only objective of survival > and you'll pull her through. I don't say this to many people- but Sherry > also will attest to the cat's indomitable spirit! I can't bear to see her suffer, though, and that may be her downfall. Candace > > Candace, email me with a mailing address, I'll send you an Areochamber and a > > bronchial dilator (albuterol) . This will dilate her airways and allow her > > RBCs to carry more O2. The increased O2 intake will help make her lungs > > pump more O2 with less work and compensate for her restricted lung expansion > > caused by the fibrosing pleuritis. [...] > I can't bear to see her suffer, though, and that may be her downfall. She is so young, Candace. I can see why Phil is saying this. Though of course you will not allow her to suffer too long or too much, that is part of being a good cat mom. I am eager to hear how it goes with the inhaler. I want to get one for Cheeks and wonder how hard they are to use. > > > Candace, email me with a mailing address, I'll send you an Areochamber > and a [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I am eager to hear how it goes with the inhaler. I want to get one for > Cheeks and wonder how hard they are to use. Very easy to use. The Aerochamber and Optichamber are better than the AeroKat because they have one-way valves that keep the medication in the chamber until the cat inhales so the medication isn't lost if the cat struggles or pulls her face away from the mask. Also, you can actuate the MDI away from the cat instead of trying to coordinate actuating the inhaler and holding the cat and the chamber at the same time. Take a look: http://www.maxshouse.com/inhalation_therapy_for_airway_disease.htm http://www.maxshouse.com/feline_asthma_and_bronchitis.htm Phil Phil wrote: >Candace, email me with a mailing >address, I'll send you an Areochamber >and a bronchial dilator (albuterol). If you want to send her the aerochamber I don't see an issue with that and it's a nice gesture. However, prescribing and dispensing a prescription medication and doing so across state lines is not only unethical, it's illegal. By agreeing to accept this, Candace becomes party to the crime. You also have no business doing this when you ARE NOT A VET OR PHARMACIST, are not privy to this cat's medical records and have never seen this cat. Maybe you should also read the information you post. "Although effective for symptomatic relief of bronchoconstriction, albuterol does not control inflammation. Monotherapy may exacerbate airway disease and increases morbidity and mortality in human asthmatics. Tolerance may develop with chronic therapy from down-regulation of beta, receptors." If you want to "recommend" something based on experience that's one thing. What you are doing is illegal, completely wrong and irresponsible. Candace should check with her vet and question whether this is an appropriate course of action in her cat's case. If they think it will help her cat, that's great. Albuterol is not expensive and Candace can get it by legal means. The *vet* is the one to decide treatment and prescribe medication. Not you. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Phil wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Megan Oh, look, it's Scratch. :) > > Phil wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Oh, look, it's Scratch. :) Ain't if funny that she didn't comment on 'busting the cat's a.s" or disabled cats being 'euthanasia candates" but stills try to discredit me for trying to help Candance? I swear, she has more testosterone issues than any man I know! A case of too much guy in the gyn! LOL! Phil whined: >Ain't if funny that she didn't comment on >'busting the cat's a.s" or disabled cats >being 'euthanasia candates" but stills try >to discredit me for trying to help >Candance? If these comments were contained in some of the numerous flame threads going on, I didn't see them. When I see a thread that starts to disintegrate into insults and whining, and contains a zillion posts by Mary, big bad barry, Philip, catkb.com people and you it's pretty obvious there's a flame war going on and I have no interest in reading that garbage. My time is precious and I come here to help people. For example, while you all were apparently arguing in the cat is a bully thread, I contacted the OP and gave him a lot of ideas and helpful advice on how to resolve the issue. I have no obligation or desire to read every post or comment in every single thread. If you don't like it, tough sh.t. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Phil whined: > >Ain't if funny that she didn't comment on [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > read every post or comment in every single thread. If you don't like it, > tough sh.t. Is that the best excuse you can conjure up! LOL! > > Phil whined: > > >Ain't if funny that she didn't comment on [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Is that the best excuse you can conjure up! LOL! She's been sulking for weeks, but there's only so long she can go without throwing a tantrum. MEGAN HAS TO BE THE CAT EXPERT, get it? > Phil whined: > >Ain't if funny that she didn't comment on [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > If these comments were contained in some of the numerous flame threads > going on, I didn't see them. Jesus you are lame, Megan. Find another way to get attention. > If you want to "recommend" something based on experience that's one > thing. What you are doing is illegal, completely wrong and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Candace can get it by legal means. The *vet* is the one to decide > treatment and prescribe medication. Not you. I have emailed Phil that I do not want him to do anything that could put him in jeopardy and that the aerochamber would be sufficient. I realize that you are correct that this is illegal, as it *appears* although, for all we know, Phil may have been planning to have a vet prescribe it. We know he works closely with several vets. There are definitely ways around requiring a vet to actually see the patient. I do know this for a fact: there are ways to obtain drugs legally over the internet for both humans and animals where the patient is never seen by the prescribing dr. or vet nor are their records ever seen. I have personally done this with a veterinary supply company for my late cat, Cory, who had CRF. He repeatedly got UTIs and I read on Helen's CRF website, and other places, that low dose antibiotics are often given to CRF cats on a permanent basis to ward off these chronic UTIs. My vet was not in agreement with me and wouldn't prescribe them. I decided I was going to get them for my cat regardless. Everytime he finished a course of abx, about a week later, the UTI would be back, he would be sickly and not eating, back to the vet we would go, they would give him another course of abx, and on and on, ad infinitum. It was ridiculous. I found the name of this vet supply company, called them, and their vet prescribed the meds for me, not even for a specific cat of mine. All I had to do was provide the name of my "organization." Of course, I never knew the vet's name. Soon thereafter, my own vet decided to go ahead and prescribe the meds for me (probably afraid I would take my bu$iness elsewhere) but I had my own supply whether he chose to give them to me or not. It certainly sounds a bit shady but it is fully legal. For that matter, I could probably obtain the albuterol in this manner also (btw, my CRF cat did really well on this regimen). But I don't want Phil to do anything that would open him up to criticism or worse, on my account. Candace > > If you want to "recommend" something based on experience that's one > > thing. What you are doing is illegal, completely wrong and [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > But I don't want Phil to do anything that would open him up to > criticism or worse, on my account. Candace, Please don't be concerned- I bend far more serious laws than this to help cats. In fact I've even fractured quite a few. Megan just like likes to jump on every opportunity she can to discredit me because she can't handle being outgunned by a man and because she knows I think she's an a.shole for keeping 25 cats in a dingy, one-bedroom apartment. That's the basis of her referring to me as 'misogynist' and all her other critisism. When she begain posting, she didn't know sh.t about cats - she was only big on anti-declawing. Now she holds 'private consultations' via emails so no one can criticize her. LOL! Phil > Candace, > > Please don't be concerned- I bend far more serious laws than this to help > cats. In fact I've even fractured quite a few. Megan just like likes to > jump on every opportunity she can to discredit me because she can't handle being > outgunned by a man and because she knows I think she's an a.shole for > keeping 25 cats in a dingy, one-bedroom apartment. Man. That does not even begin to address all the reasons Megan is an a.shole. But it is a good start. Phil lied: >When she begain posting, she didn't >know sh.t about cats - she was only big on >anti-declawing. That's a lie and you know it. You weren't even a member of the groups until well after I began posting. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Phil lied: > >When she begain posting, she didn't [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > That's a lie and you know it. You weren't even a member of the groups > until well after I began posting. I remember you from alt.cats, before I began posting here. The only thing you knew anything about was declawing. So, all this so-called 'experience' you have is largely a compilation of other peoples' experiences. I still see you parroting information that I posted years before you even had a clue. So f.ck off. Phil wrote: >I remember you from alt.cats, before I >began posting here. The only thing you >knew anything about was declawing. That's another lie and a simple google search proves it. You showed up on the newsgroups lying (and subsequently canceled all those posts-and a lot of others- for obvious reasons) and you haven't stopped since. As usual, you make yourself look more pathetic with every lie and false accusation you make. This is your typical behavior when anyone disagrees with you. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Phil wrote: > >I remember you from alt.cats, before I > >began posting here. The only thing you > >knew anything about was declawing. > > That's another lie and a simple google search proves it. Oh no! Not Google! Anything but Google, Megooglean! ROTFL! I think I'll coin a new phrase in your honor. Instead of saying 'as happy as cat in a catnip patch', I'm gonna say 'as happy as Megan in Google'. Maybe someone will make a movie about you- "Megan In Googleland- The life and times of a frustrated, burned out collector'- or do you perfer 'hoarder'? So tell me Megooglean, did you ever get the bumper stickers printed? I don't think you did. Phil whined: >Oh no! Not Google! Anything but I notice you don't deny that you're a liar. Despite your rants, archived posts back me up and prove you to be a liar. As to the bumper stickers, no I didn't have them printed. I didn't have the finances when I was making inquiries (which further proves you lied) and when I did I spent it on cats. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Phil whined: > >Oh no! Not Google! Anything but Digging for sh.t comes naturally to you, you've had a lot of practice! LOL! If Google ever crashed, you'd have a nervous breakdown- if you haven't had a few already. > I notice you don't deny that you're a liar. Despite your rants, archived > posts back me up and prove you to be a liar. Naa, I just ignored your blathering- didn't want to bother dignifying your nonsense with a comment. Just to shut you the f.ck up- no, I'm not a liar- I don't have to lie-- but you do. You're so obsessed with trying to discredit me because you just can't stand being outgunned by a man that you'll say anything. > As to the bumper stickers, no I didn't have them printed. I didn't think so after you realized you weren't getting them for free. I, OTOT printed and distributed over 100M copies of my declaw brochure. I didn't have > the finances when I was making inquiries (which further proves you lied) > and when I did I spent it on cats. Acutally, it proves you *did* want me to print them- you thought I'd print them for free because you know I'm so passionate about declawing and I'm very generous. This is really getting your painties- or should I say boxer shorts- in a bunch, ain't it Megoolean? You must have upped your meds- usually you call me a 'misogynist' by now! LOL! Phil lied: >you thought I'd print them for free That's not true. I don't expect anything for free, and I certainly didn't expect you to print anything for me, nor did I ask you to. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Phil lied: > >you thought I'd print them for free > > That's not true. Sure it is. You thought I'd print them for free because you know I'm vehemently opposed to declawing and also because I offered to print Dr. J's declawing brochure for free. If that's not true, why haven't you had them printed by now-- it's only been, what, >5 years! LOL! You can't manipulate your way outta this one, Megoolean. > I don't expect anything for free, and I certainly > didn't expect you to print anything for me, Sure you did! You were hoping to play on my passion. You're a sleazy manipulator. The fact that you tramp through Google trying to dig up sh.t from years ago to use against people proves that fact. > nor did I ask you to. You sure as hell did, you sleazly liar. You told me you wanted to have bumber stickers printed and asked me if I could do that type of printing. I said no- because I didn't want to deal with you. I don't do silk-screen printing either- but I take the jobs and farm them out. I could have easily done the same thing with your bumber stickers- but I just didn't want to deal with you. You're just a bitter, resentful, envious, jealous, frustrated, hag who just can't stand being outgunned by a man. Phil wrote: <snip more lies> Presuming to know what I am thinking is laughable. Creating more lies and embellishing the ones you've already told doesn't change the fact that they are still lies. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Phil wrote: > <snip more lies> > > Presuming to know what I am thinking is laughable. I don't have to presume what you're thinking, I know what you said. If what I'm saying isn't true, why haven't you had the bumper stickers printed by now? it's only been almost 6 years. Have you lost your passion for the cause or isn't the project important enough to you if you have to pay for it? You asked me about printing the stickers hoping I'd print them for free. When I referred you to another shop and you knew you would have to pay for the stickers, you nixed the project. Its as simple as that. You took a shot and you lost. But hey, I give you credit for trying- even though you're outta your league. Your Midwest shuffle is a step too slow for a New York hustle. Phil wrote; <snip more lies> Uh, Phil, I already explained why I didn't get the bumperstickers printed. It's pretty pathetic that you hang on to your lies so desperately. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray Phil wote: >it's only been almost 6 years. Here is proof positive that you are lying. Almost six years ago my website did not exist and you were posting in alt.cats telling your Vietnam lies. I was not in contact with you at that time. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Phil wote: > >it's only been almost 6 years. > > Here is proof positive that you are lying. Almost six years ago my > website did not exist and you were posting in alt.cats telling your > Vietnam lies. I was not in contact with you at that time. Wrong answer. You asked me about the stickers after I offered to print Dr. J's brochure in this group. Having trouble remembering your lies? Phil lied: >You asked me about the stickers after I >offered to print Dr. J's brochure in this >group. Again, almost 6 years ago my website did not exist and the above is a lie as it would be ridiculous to print bumper stickers for a website that did not exist. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Phil lied: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > lie as it would be ridiculous to print bumper stickers for a website > that did not exist. What a sleazy manipulator! The bumber stickers you described to me didn't have a f.cking thing to do with a website- they were simply anti-declawing stickers along the same lines as Lisaviolet's 'Educate don't Amputate". Try again. Phil wrote: >The bumber stickers you described to >me didn't have a f.cking thing to do with a >website- they were simply anti-declawing >stickers along the same lines as >Lisaviolet's 'Educate don't Amputate". Errrr...no they weren't. I specifically wanted them with my website on them, which didn't exist at the time you claim all this supposedly happened. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Phil wrote: > >The bumber stickers you described to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Errrr...no they weren't. I specifically wanted them with my website on > them, You're f.cking liar! Ohmigawd!!! The Vietnam-buddy. :) Six-pack, Shot-gun, Two-shot, or something like that. It unfolded before us like a train wreck. Oh, those were the days. Six-pack finally disappeared right into thin air. I always wondered why he didn't talk about cats while on the cat group? Well -- maybe better to let sleeping dogs lie... Rhonda > Phil wote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Megan >> Phil whined: >> >Oh no! Not Google! Anything but [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >If Google ever crashed, you'd have a nervous breakdown- if you haven't had a >few already. God this is so easy - just like republican whores who can only spew insults when confronted with facts. You've earned a place in my "almost-killfile" for your idiocy. >> I notice you don't deny that you're a liar. Despite your rants, archived >> posts back me up and prove you to be a liar. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >discredit me because you just can't stand being outgunned by a man that >you'll say anything. Yet you have really no honest, verifiable posts to back you up. Cite some please! But don't use Google, because obviously that is the tool of the weak-minded. >> As to the bumper stickers, no I didn't have them printed. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >bunch, ain't it Megoolean? You must have upped your meds- usually you call >me a 'misogynist' by now! LOL! Some of us are actually sane on this newsgroup - and can spot a kook when we see one. Please reassure us newbies that Megan is a freak by citing posts where she's f.cked up. I'm sure you, as a woman-hater, have compiled quite a generous list. Have a happy ulcer. BLink > I'm sure you, as a woman-hater, Take Megan's boxer shorts off your head; your brain cells are dying by the second. If you think I hate woman, you must be gay. ***Brian, Phil...STOP IT, NOOOW!!! Both of you are good, intelligent men and are carrying on like a bunch of hen pickers. Please stop arguing between each other, and try* to civilly come to a stand off. No more name calling and attacking each other. Let it be. I just hate to read about two men here, who I like and respect, coming to verbal blows with each other. Please try to be civil with one another and simply, right Now, agree to disagree. Thank you. ML-( who is totally 'nutzy' over Phil :-) because he is smart and I have never forgotten how he helped me greatly with my dear 'Blue' when I so direly needed advice. Thank you!). ML > > I'm sure you, as a woman-hater, > > Take Megan's boxer shorts off your head; your brain cells are dying by the > second. > > If you think I hate woman, you must be gay. "Brian Link" <blink@visi.com> wrote in message >just like republican whores That's about the only women you can get- that you don't have to inflate. >> > If you want to "recommend" something based on experience that's one >> > thing. What you are doing is illegal, completely wrong and [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > >Phil Have you been to her place? Or are you blowing smoke out your a.s? I've been to her place, and my smoke detector's going off. You sir, are a grade-A Usenet nutcase, and from your Google results, living in the basement with your mother. The energy you suck out of your anger is best directed elsewhere, imho, like overturning our corrupt government or rescuing a feral colony nearby. BLink > You sir, are a grade-A Usenet nutcase, and from your Google results, > living in the basement with your mother. ROTFLMAO! My mother has been dead for 10 years- you babbling f.cking moron! >> You sir, are a grade-A Usenet nutcase, and from your Google results, >> living in the basement with your mother. > >ROTFLMAO! My mother has been dead for 10 years- you babbling f.cking moron! As eloquent a response as I could have expected. BLink > >> You sir, are a grade-A Usenet nutcase, and from your Google results, > >> living in the basement with your mother. > > > >ROTFLMAO! My mother has been dead for 10 years- you babbling f.cking moron! > > > As eloquent a response as I could have expected. Its about all you can understand. "Brian Link" <blink@visi.com> wrote in message > living in the basement with your mother. Btw, moron, my Mother died 10 years ago and I live 22 miles away. You're even dumber than I though you were... if that's possible. > I've been to her place, ...and you've been acting like a alpha dog in heat defending his bitch ever since. > and my smoke detector's going off. Probably from the friction. Try a little KY. LOL! > Phil wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > However, prescribing and dispensing a prescription medication and doing > so across state lines is not only unethical, it's illegal. Thank you for your concern, Ms. Kojack. I'm sure Candace would consult with her vet before giving her cat any medications. The vet who would be prescribing the albuterol is the same vet who prescribed albuterol for our chylo cats- it helped them breath easier while the chylo resolved. Candace has spent a lot of money, already. If I can save her some money, I will. You don't have to like it. If you think that's bad, I'm also feeding ferals in the wee hours of the morning in a town that prohibits feeding ferals- wanna call the cops? LOL! Btw, I even offered to send you a couple of cases of glucose test strips (that cost ~$70/box) because I had a few cases that were nearing their expiration date- but you use a different meter. However, if you need a new toilet brush or kneepads, just let me know! LOL! > Thank you for your concern, Ms. Kojack. I'm sure Candace would > consult with her vet before giving her cat any medications. The [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > meter. However, if you need a new toilet brush or kneepads, > just let me know! LOL! See, this was just so uncalled for. We all know you dislike Megan, but she had a valid point about sending prescription drugs across the mail, plus you never indicated to Candace to check with her vet. Of course we know she would, but there are people here who probably wouldn't think twice about giving a cat medication based on your posts. Insulting Megan about her choice of self-employment is low. SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields > > Thank you for your concern, Ms. Kojack. I'm sure Candace would > > consult with her vet before giving her cat any medications. The [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > See, this was just so uncalled for. We all know you dislike Megan, ..but you never seem to notice she tries to discredit me every chance she gets? > but she had a valid point about sending prescription drugs across > the mail, plus you never indicated to Candace to check with her > vet. I would have definitely mentioned it to you, but I know Candace is smart enough to consult with her vet before giving her cat any medications. Of course we know she would, but there are people here who > probably wouldn't think twice about giving a cat medication based > on your posts. I often suggest medications- I even recommended a few to you! Insulting Megan about her choice of self-employment > is low. Yeah, wasn't it? LOL! I thought so, too- that's why I did it! >> but she had a valid point about sending prescription drugs >> across the mail, plus you never indicated to Candace to check [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > is smart enough to consult with her vet before giving her cat > any medications. More insults. Predictable. SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields > >> but she had a valid point about sending prescription drugs > >> across the mail, plus you never indicated to Candace to check [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > More insults. Predictable. Hey- When f.ck with the bull- don't complain when you get the horns. > >> but she had a valid point about sending prescription drugs > >> across the mail, plus you never indicated to Candace to check [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > More insults. Predictable. Candace *is* smart enough to consult with her vet, Cheryl. Are you saying she is not? >Thank you for your concern, Ms. Kojack. >I'm sure Candace would consult with her [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >albuterol for our chylo cats- it helped them >breath easier while the chylo resolved. It is illegal and unethical for a vet to prescribe medication to a cat he hasn't seen. You and your "vet" have no business treating Candace's cat when you are in another state and have never seen the cat or its medical records. For all you know, in her cat's case Albuterol may be contraindicated. It's funny how you jump all over people that have done the same thing you are doing now. >Candace has spent a lot of money, >already. If I can save her some money, I >will. You don't have to like it. That's not the issue here. >Btw, I even offered to send you a couple >of cases of glucose test strips (that cost >~$70/box) because I had a few cases that >were nearing their expiration date- but you >use a different meter. You did no such thing. You asked me what kind of meter I used and that was it. You made no such offer and never explained why you asked me about the meter. And for you to think that I would ever in a million years give you my personal information in order to have something sent to me is downright delusional. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > >Thank you for your concern, Ms. Kojack. > >I'm sure Candace would consult with her [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > cat when you are in another state and have never seen the cat or its > medical records. Show me the statute, Mother Theresa. Doctors prescribe meds over the internet all the time without seeing the patient. Most companies just ask you a few questions- that's it- unless its a controlled substance. Don't know much about drugs, do you? For all you know, in her cat's case Albuterol may be > contraindicated. It's funny how you jump all over people that have done > the same thing you are doing now. I was talking to Candace- who I've know for several years and *know* she's highly intelligent and responsible- not some unknown moron. There was no doubt in my mind that she would consult her vet before administering any medications. > >Candace has spent a lot of money, > >already. If I can save her some money, I > >will. You don't have to like it. > > That's not the issue here. Yeah, I know- you're justing looking for an excuse to criticize me because you resent my superior knowledge and experience. > >Btw, I even offered to send you a couple > >of cases of glucose test strips (that cost [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > was it. You made no such offer and never explained why you asked me > about the meter. Why else would I ask you which meter you used, Einstein? I've already stated that the AccuChek was the most accurate meter when compared to a bench BG analyzer. I over order test strips and I knew you treated a couple of diabetic cats. Transcends your understand, eh? And for you to think that I would ever in a million > years give you my personal information in order to have something sent > to me is downright delusional. Bullshit. They why did you ask me to print bumper stickers for you? Did you plan to travel to NYC to pick them up? You're such a manipulating a.shole. LOL! Phil wrote: >They why did you ask me to print >bumper stickers for you? I did not ask you to print bumper stickers for me. I asked you if that was something you did, what was involved and what it would cost to do such a thing. That was also long before you made your psychotic threats that included filing a false report with a government agency. You know, the ones you went back and cancelled so there would be no record of it in Google. Too bad for you that the comments from everyone that witnessed it still exist. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Phil wrote: > > >They why did you ask me to print > >bumper stickers for you? > > I did not ask you to print bumper stickers for me. You sure as hell did! I told you I didn't do flexo printing and referred you another shop because I really didn't want to deal with you. Phil lied: >You sure as hell did! I notice you conveniently snipped the following sentence of my post: "I asked you if that was something you did, what was involved and what it would cost to do such a thing." I did not ask you to do any printing. You were in the business and were an appropriate person to ask to figure out reasonable costs so I could be informed when I shopped around. It's called *research* and I wouldn't buy that type of product anywhere but locally because it's something I would need to see and approve before paying for. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Phil lied: > >You sure as hell did! [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > "I asked you if that was something you did, what was involved and what > it would cost to do such a thing. > I did not ask you to do any printing. You were in the business and were > an appropriate person to ask to figure out reasonable costs so I could > be informed when I shopped around. LOL! What a manipulator! You asked me if I could print bumper stickers for your declaw project and how much it would cost. I told you I didn't do flexo printing (because I didn't want to deal with you) but could refer you to another shop (where I asked you not to mention my name! LOL). You can manipulate it anyway you want, now, because it was so long ago. But you know goddam well you asked me to print them. If you weren't such a manipulating a.shole, I would have printed them for free - and I wouldn't have been doing for the deduction because you're not even a 501(c)(3) org. My guess is you never had them printed! LOL! > >Thank you for your concern, Ms. Kojack. > >I'm sure Candace would consult with her [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Megan You are so amazing. You see Phil as some sort of threat to your "expert" status. lol > Abbey just got back from her ultrasound (echocardiogram). She has no > heart problems; we were hoping she would have heart disease that could [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Candace Not having nbeen around here much at all lately, I don't know the background about Abbey (it's also possible you posted something about her way back when, but my memory's doing its thing), but I'm sorry to read this. Cathy > Not having nbeen around here much at all lately, I don't know the > background about Abbey (it's also possible you posted something about > her way back when, but my memory's doing its thing), but I'm sorry to > read this. I posted it a few days ago under a thread called, "My cat has a grave prognosis-chylothorax." Candace > Abbey just got back from her ultrasound (echocardiogram). She has no > heart problems; we were hoping she would have heart disease that could [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Candace ***Candace, I'm really sorry to hear this about Abbey. Do you think you could get her an 'air humidifier so (in the near future) she can breath easier? I don't know how safe it would be for her though, if her lungs are weak and compromised. I've read that sometimes you don't want too much moisture in the air because it could breed infection with a person who already has a weak immune system.? But I'm not a doctor so I really don't know if this is true or not. It sounds like you are doing everything you can to make sure she is very comfortable and pampered. Thank God you are able to be with her and spend time with quality her now. Please continue to keep us updated. My prayers are with you and Abbey. ML {{{{Candace}}} I'm so sorry to read this -- please know we're all sending purrs for her quality of life to be as good as possible for as long as possible. Christine and Omar, Oreo, Midnight, Robin & Tucker > Abbey just got back from her ultrasound (echocardiogram). She has no > heart problems; we were hoping she would have heart disease that could [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Candace |
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