Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / June 2005
Not sure what my cat's vet did was "kosher" or not - need help please.
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dark_joan@yahoo.com - 01 Jun 2005 05:29 GMT Hi everybody ... couldn't find an answer to this on the 'net so I thought I'd try you guys. Hope you don't mind a stranger just barging in here with a question!
Here's my situation -- my kitty was sick a little while ago (bad reaction to some flea foam) so I took him to a vet in town; she was a new vet to him; he's indoors only and he doesn't have a regular vet. She ran a gazillion tests on him, even did xrays and sonograms, each time saying the test was "inconclusive" and recommending more tests and procedures. At this point, I had already paid her $2,000 for all her work and tests! Next on her "to do" list for him was a biopsy of his intestine. Well, I was not comfortable with having my boy put under anesthesia and cut into when he was acting fine (eating, drinking, playing as normal). Also, as you might imagine, I was quite emotional with worry over my kitty, wondering if he was going to die or if I'd have to make a decision to put him to sleep eventually or what!
So I asked the vet if she would talk to my friend, since I was unable to absorb all the information the vet was giving me due to my emotional state and I wanted my friend who was removed and could be objective and analytical to hear from the doctor what was wrong with my boy. The vet wouldn't talk to my friend unless I paid her. This seemed odd, since I didn't see how this request would be any different than say, for example, if I was married and asked the vet "Hey could you talk to my husband about the cat's condition because I'm just too emotional to understand all you are telling me."
Secondly, I wanted a second opinion on my cat before having him cut open and biopsied. I wanted to take him to my previous vet 40 miles away who has an excellent reputation. I asked the vet for my cat's xrays so I could take them with me. I paid over $100 for these xrays and I would think they are basically my personal property not the vet's, but I don't know for sure - so that is question 1. Are the xrays my *property"? Second question -- the vet charged me $30 for the xrays, a "handling" charge if you will. Now, mind you, the xrays were only a few days old and were still on her shelf in my cat's file; it's not like she had to send off to some off-site storage facility to retrieve his xrays. So, question #2 is, is it customary for a vet to charge to give me (actually "lend", as I had to sign a paper saying I'd bring the xrays back to her office) my cat's xrays that I already paid for when he first got xrayed?
I paid for the xrays, took my cat to my old vet, the vet looked at the xrays and all the tests that the other vet faxed over and asked me "Why is this cat here? He's fine!"
So, clearly, in hindsight, this first vet was just all about the money. So now I am mad and wondering if there's some sort of action I can take against the first vet. You know, at the very least I'd like to do a chargeback on the $30 I paid for the xrays - not that $30 matters to me, but it's just the danged *principle* of the thing. Plus, since this vet seems to be all about the money, I'm hoping it would tick her off a little. Especially after she took me for $2,000 and, worst of all, put me in quite the emotional state wondering about my kitty's health.
What do you all think?
Thanks in advance **SO MUCH** !!!
sriddles@aol.com - 01 Jun 2005 05:42 GMT > So, clearly, in hindsight, this first vet was just all about the money. > So now I am mad and wondering if there's some sort of action I can [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thanks in advance **SO MUCH** !!! I don't think you have much of a chance trying to recoup any of the money. First of all, it's her "policy" to charge a fee to hand over x-rays (a poor policy for sure, but it's not illegal or anything). And if she did indeed perform all the tests she *said* she did, there's nothing really *illegal* about it -- unethical, yeah, but not illegal. You could still try, but attorney fees would cost far more than it was worth. But I wonder if you maybe could file a formal complaint with the Veterinary Board in your state listing exhorbitant fees and unnecessary testing.
Sherry
Sherry
equalizer - 01 Jun 2005 10:04 GMT >Hi everybody ... couldn't find an answer to this on the 'net so I >thought I'd try you guys. Hope you don't mind a stranger just barging >in here with a question! <SNIP>
I'm not sure I have everything all sorted out to fully understand the problem. Could you perhaps post this vet's name, address, and phone number? That would be a good start.
thanks!
eq
KellyH - 01 Jun 2005 10:49 GMT <snip>
> I paid for the xrays, took my cat to my old vet, the vet looked at the > xrays and all the tests that the other vet faxed over and asked me "Why [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks in advance **SO MUCH** !!! Like Sherry said, there is nothing illegal per se about what this vet did. Scummy and unethical yes, but not illegal. The most you can do at this point is write a letter of complaint and spread your story to other pet owners about how she bilked you. I've never heard of charging an X-ray handling fee, for pets or people. A question though, after your kitty recovered and was fine, on what basis was she saying that he still needed further tests? How sick did your cat get? Was he just not feeling well, or did he need to be hospitalized? For a possible poisoning, I would think all that is needed is maybe some fluids to help flush out the toxin, and bloodwork to make sure all organs are functioning.
-Kelly
Karen - 01 Jun 2005 12:41 GMT > <snip> >> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > -Kelly I was wondering this too. I also thought it was extremely strange that she would charge for talking to your friend (a good idea btw I thought.) Sounds like a real piece of work.
Janet B - 01 Jun 2005 12:55 GMT >I was wondering this too. I also thought it was extremely strange that she >would charge for talking to your friend (a good idea btw I thought.) Sounds >like a real piece of work. There's talking and there's talking. A consultation fee is not unusual at all. Now, if the OP had said "I can't understand this - I'm handing the phone to my friend", that's one thing. Setting up a consultation (even on the phone) with the friend is a whole 'nuther ball of wax. I paid for a surgical consult with a specialist once, just to get all of my facts and options before deciding whether or not to do the surgery. I believe it was something on the order of $60. For an expensive and potentially fatal surgery with a long recovery time, on an elderly animal, it was the right thing to do.
 Signature Janet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album
Karen - 01 Jun 2005 15:06 GMT > >I was wondering this too. I also thought it was extremely strange that she > >would charge for talking to your friend (a good idea btw I thought.) Sounds [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > For an expensive and potentially fatal surgery with a long recovery > time, on an elderly animal, it was the right thing to do. Well, when you say you asked the vet to talk to your friend because you are too emotional to take it all in, it does NOT sound like a "consultation" to me. It sounds like, you want the vet to tell your friend what they told you so that you don't miss anything. I say that is a piece of work and a lot of gall to ask for an extra fee.
Janet B - 01 Jun 2005 18:23 GMT >Well, when you say you asked the vet to talk to your friend because you are >too emotional to take it all in, it does NOT sound like a "consultation" to >me. It sounds like, you want the vet to tell your friend what they told you >so that you don't miss anything. I say that is a piece of work and a lot of >gall to ask for an extra fee. But none of us know exactly how the conversation went. Also, this was not a vet who had the OP and her cat as clients. The visit sounded more like an ER visit.
Would I expect MY vet to talk to someone of my choosing, if I was upset and couldn't cope? Sure. But that's because I'm a regular client, who visits the vet with may animals even if I don't vaccinate.
 Signature Janet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album
MaryL - 01 Jun 2005 18:52 GMT I apologize if this message doesn't transmit correctly -- I'm visiting my sister and am using google to read this NG (and post my response).
I don't think your vet did anything that could specifically be called "illegal," but I would *run* -- *not walk* -- to another vet. From your description, it seems that your vet's basic concern is profit, not the welfare of your cat. However, do be sure to get a complete record of all tests and procedures that the vet performed. You paid for it, and you are entitled to a copy of the results. If necessary, ask your new vet to request the records. As to the actual X-Rays: many clinic concern them to be their property, but most will permit the client to borrow them as long as they are returned (just as with X-Rays for people).
One last (but important) point: I noticed that you said you cat had a bad reaction to flea foam. *Do not* use over-the-counter flea preparations. There have been numerous reports of bad reactions -- even death -- to some of them (especially Hartz). In this case, only use products that you obtain from your vet (your *new* vet, I hope). Advantage and Frontline are usually recommended by vets in the U.S.
MaryL
Karen - 01 Jun 2005 19:19 GMT > >Well, when you say you asked the vet to talk to your friend because you are > >too emotional to take it all in, it does NOT sound like a "consultation" to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > upset and couldn't cope? Sure. But that's because I'm a regular > client, who visits the vet with may animals even if I don't vaccinate. If the vet isn't talking about a *different* cat and a different exam, how on earth could they want a "consultation" fee to talk to a person of my choosing? Makes no sense whatsoever, emergency vet or not.
Janet B - 01 Jun 2005 19:23 GMT >If the vet isn't talking about a *different* cat and a different exam, how >on earth could they want a "consultation" fee to talk to a person of my >choosing? Makes no sense whatsoever, emergency vet or not. I think we're all speculating and none of us were there. I've read more "the bastard vet" stories on newsgroups over the years, and I always try to remember that I'm only hearing ONE SIDE of the story, from an upset pet owner. Not exactly a transcript of what actually happened. Is the vet awful? Maybe. Maybe not. Things aren't always what they seem.
 Signature Janet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album
Karen - 01 Jun 2005 19:37 GMT Well, bully for you. I'm saying that *if* a vet actually did this, it's a pretty dirty thing to do.
> >If the vet isn't talking about a *different* cat and a different exam, how > >on earth could they want a "consultation" fee to talk to a person of my [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > happened. Is the vet awful? Maybe. Maybe not. Things aren't > always what they seem. Meghan Noecker - 01 Jun 2005 23:49 GMT >>Well, when you say you asked the vet to talk to your friend because you are >>too emotional to take it all in, it does NOT sound like a "consultation" to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >not a vet who had the OP and her cat as clients. The visit sounded >more like an ER visit. After $2000 in tests, I would say a consultation should be included. Whether it was with her or somebody who wasn't crying shouldn't matter.
I didn't have to pay for the 15 minute talk with the vet about Maynard's bloodwork. And they didn't charge me an office call when they demonstrated how to give fluids. They charged me for the fluids and the meds.
 Signature -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
Meghan Noecker - 01 Jun 2005 23:42 GMT >Well, when you say you asked the vet to talk to your friend because you are >too emotional to take it all in, it does NOT sound like a "consultation" to >me. It sounds like, you want the vet to tell your friend what they told you >so that you don't miss anything. I say that is a piece of work and a lot of >gall to ask for an extra fee. When I needed the bloodwork results for Maynard, I asked them to ask for my mom or dad, as I get choked up and cannot speak, and it would be over the phone. The next day, I realized they had my private phone line on file, not the house line. My parents had gone out on errands, and my sister dropped in, so I had her call in. They went ahead and talked to her, and she asked the questions I had written down, and there was never any problem.
I also had no problem getting a printout of the bloodwork, including the work done a couple years earlier.
And previously, I had no problem getting an older x-ray from an old vet after I moved away.
 Signature -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
PawsForThought - 01 Jun 2005 13:16 GMT > Here's my situation -- my kitty was sick a little while ago (bad > reaction to some flea foam) so I took him to a vet in town; she was a [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > with worry over my kitty, wondering if he was going to die or if I'd > have to make a decision to put him to sleep eventually or what! Sorry to hear of your situation, and glad your kitty is ok. This vet sounds pretty unethical, but as others have said, it wouldn't be worth trying to get your money back, and I agree with whoever said to make a complaint against the vet to your state's vet board. It would be interesting to find out if there have been other complaints made against her.
As for the flea foam, as you now know, these flea preps can be very dangerous. You say your cat is indoors only. Does he actually have fleas? Personally, I don't believe in using chemical insecticides unless absolutely necessary.
I don't see it as a consultation to have the vet speak to your friend in order to help explain things to you more clearly, and charging a consultation fee was not the right thing to do, IMO. She should have spoken to your friend as a courtesy. It's not like you just walked in off the street and wanted the vet to diagnose your cat for free, then speak to your friend. Sounds to me like the vet was taking advantage of your emotional state, and didn't want someone neutral to take part in the relationship, since your friend may very well have seen through her.
Lauren
Brandy Alexandre - 01 Jun 2005 14:32 GMT <dark_joan@yahoo.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav:
> So, clearly, in hindsight, this first vet was just all about the > money. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > $2,000 and, worst of all, put me in quite the emotional state > wondering about my kitty's health. All vet's have different policies about x-rays, but I can tell you that cat had x-rays recently at the emergency vet and they just gave them to me for her "day" vet. Since she had x-rays for the same issue before, and I had moved to another state (just visiting Los Angeles), I went over to my old vet's office and asked if I could have the x-rays from a couple years ago so the new vet in the new state could have the record. They also simply gave them to me.
Make of that what you will
 Signature Brandy Alexandre® http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you?
Innovo - 01 Jun 2005 15:02 GMT ***I would dump that vet, ASAP. Politely and firmly ask/demand that your x-rays and records to be faxed to your newly appointed vet. You owe them/her no explanation. She/ old vet, is obviously incompetent and unbelievably greedy and selfish. I would also advise you to report her to the better business bureau.
No telling how many more other people she's ripped off, and how many animals she's caused a large amount of unnecessary stress and pain.
ML
> Hi everybody ... couldn't find an answer to this on the 'net so I > thought I'd try you guys. Hope you don't mind a stranger just barging [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Thanks in advance **SO MUCH** !!! Lesley - 01 Jun 2005 15:40 GMT She/ old vet, is obviously incompetent and unbelievably greedy and selfish.
Like the vet a friend of mine was forced to use. His wife had a cat he had given her when he took a job abroad when they first met and he had to do this to buy and furnish their first home together. When the cat got to be 16+ he became ill and off they went to this new vet. For a little while the treatments worked and the cat was well and happy but after a couple of years the treatments stopped working and the cat had no quality of life whatsoever, he was at the vet's almost every week and when not at the vets he was lying on his bed uninterested in food and having to be taken to his litter box as he could only walk a few steps....But she couldn't bear to lose her "baby" and the vet saw her coming and colluded shamelessly with her, suggesting more investigations, more treatments, maybe "this one will do the trick" and "we haven't tried this one". My friend actually asked the vet about putting the poor cat out of his misery and his wife gave him the sort of look that suggested sooner him than her cat....He tried to change vets but his wife was so convinced that this "vet" was all that was keeping her "baby" alive she gave him another "sooner you than him" look
Anyway he spent over £6,000 on this cat and the cat had a miserable last two or so years before even the vet had to admit that it was kinder to let him go (He probably thought "this cat is not going to last more than a few days so I'll grab the last few bob out of it rather than letting it die peacefully at home"- incidentally in that sentence I am using "it", which I never normally do but that is how this particular vet was with cats apparently)
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
Philip - 01 Jun 2005 16:37 GMT snip
> Anyway he spent over £6,000 on this cat and the cat had a miserable > last two or so years before even the vet had to admit that it was [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Slave of the Fabulous Furballs SIX THOUSAND British Pounds? WHAT!
That's $10,800 USD ! The vet discovered he had a Big Fish with deep pockets. At this level, I don't feel sorry at all for the cat's owner.
Phil P. - 01 Jun 2005 19:37 GMT > snip > > Anyway he spent over £6,000 on this cat and the cat had a miserable [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > That's $10,800 USD ! The vet discovered he had a Big Fish with deep > pockets. No, she just has an emotional capacity that you're lacking so it transcends your understanding.
>At this level, I don't feel sorry at all for the cat's owner. You don't feel anything- you're emotionally dead. You need to ignite other peoples' emotions to feel alive.
You're a half-dead decrepit, old sociopath. Your only redeeming quality is that you're dying-- unforfunately, not fast enough.
I feel sorry your cats and any cats that come in contact with you.
Lesley - 02 Jun 2005 11:06 GMT That's $10,800 USD ! The vet discovered he had a Big Fish with deep pockets. At this level, I don't feel sorry at all for the cat's owner
And bear in mind this was something like 10 years ago when £6,000 was worth a lot more than it is now
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
Philip - 02 Jun 2005 13:44 GMT Philip wrote:
>> That's $10,800 USD ! The vet discovered he had a Big Fish with deep >> pockets. At this level, I don't feel sorry at all for the cat's owner [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Lesley You're kidding. No ... you're not kidding. Well, I have absolutely no sympathy for this owner in particular.
dark_joan@yahoo.com - 02 Jun 2005 21:54 GMT > snip > > Anyway he spent over £6,000 on this cat and the cat had a miserable [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > That's $10,800 USD ! The vet discovered he had a Big Fish with deep > pockets. At this level, I don't feel sorry at all for the cat's owner. Hey, Philip, it's really easy for the $$ to add up. First there's a couple hundred dollars for this test, then a few hundred more for another test, etc. It's hard, especially for a person so attached to their pet, to say "Hey, I'd rather have $200 than my cat, so forget it doc!" It's not like the vet charged the 6,000 lbs. British all at once. They just string you along, and then it adds up. This is a sad story that the poster mentioned about this British cat owner. I **do** feel sorry for her, and for her kitty whose life was extended unnecessarily and had little to no quality of life in its last years.
Ursula.
Philip - 03 Jun 2005 00:57 GMT >> snip >>> Anyway he spent over £6,000 on this cat and the cat had a miserable [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Hey, Philip, it's really easy for the $$ to add up. snip
> Ursula. When any pet is a defacto surrogate child ... I have no empathy for what follows.
mlbriggs - 01 Jun 2005 19:11 GMT > ***I would dump that vet, ASAP. Politely and firmly ask/demand that your > x-rays and records to be faxed to your newly appointed vet. You owe [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] >> >> Thanks in advance **SO MUCH** !!! And -- file a complaint with the licensing board or department of business regulation. MLB
MK - 01 Jun 2005 15:46 GMT > Hi everybody ... couldn't find an answer to this on the 'net so I > thought I'd try you guys. Hope you don't mind a stranger just barging [quoted text clipped - 55 lines] > > Thanks in advance **SO MUCH** !!! The x-rays are legally the property of the clinic. If you request them, the clinic should loan them to you without any fuss. You are obligated to bring them back. The clinic has to keep them for a set amount of time. I think it's something like 5 years, but it varies by state. You can have them sent out to be copied at your expense, then keep the copies. I have also taken digital photos of x-rays for people to have.
We don't usually charge any handling fees unless we are mailing them somewhere. It's not a frequent request. I suppose you could charge a deposit type of fee to encourage someone to bring them back.
MK DVM
dark_joan@yahoo.com - 02 Jun 2005 21:58 GMT Thanks, everyone, for your helpful responses and interesting related stories. I am finished forever with this first vet, and am now taking my kitty to my former vet several towns away whom I trust completely. My kitty may not like the 45 minute drive vs. the 5 minute drive, but too bad for him because he's going to a better doctor! :) I came here because I wanted to get a feel for if my instincts about this first vet were correct or not, and you all helped me with that a lot! Thanks, and bless all of you for your kindness! :-)
Ursula.
bigbadbarry - 02 Jun 2005 22:29 GMT > Thanks, > and bless all of you for your kindness! :-) > > Ursula. Maybe your cat likes Bruce Springsteen, that should chill him out for the ride. I don't know who told me, wether on here or in real life hehe
but..The ladies cat, loved to ride, the cat would perch on the headrest and look over her shoulder. Now that I think about it, it was the pizza lady. haha
I wouldn't mind a cat like that, it's better than hearing them sound like thier in heat or something.
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