Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / June 2005
gentler way to put a cat down?
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Francesca - 30 May 2005 16:10 GMT Hi,
I'm in a horrible situation - my old boy, who will be 16 in August, is showing signs of deterioration. He's got kidney issues and the vet's given us options that range from thousands of dollars in potential treatments, to switching to Science Diet k/d - we've done the latter. I'm a full time student and my husband has been the sole bread-winner & bill payer for the last two years - we just don't have the cash flow to spend a ton of money on anything these days.
Anyway, as my boy goes on, walking is harder, he sleeps more and more, and has recently started peeing on the floor - a sign that we need to go back to the vet. Once there, it's likely they'll do the usual, prescribe an antibiotic, perhaps hydrate him. This has been going on for a year or so. I am praying that he slips away in his sleep one day, but fear that it won't happen that way, and that I'll be faced with putting him down. It just tortures me because his personality is still in tact - but he's slow, and the vet says he likely does not feel very good most days (and frankly, he doesn't look like he feels good).
I had to put his sister down a few years ago and it was awful - it seemed that she was in pain, her tongue thrust out, and it was on a metal table with bright lights overhead. I need not to do that again. It seems too harsh.
So I'm writing to see if there are alternatives. Is there something I can give him when the time comes that will send him off in a gentle, sleep-like way? Is going to the vet and using their shots the only option? (According to the vet, it is.)
Thanks.
Helen Miles - 30 May 2005 16:14 GMT > So I'm writing to see if there are alternatives. Is there something I > can give him when the time comes that will send him off in a gentle, > sleep-like way? Is going to the vet and using their shots the only > option? (According to the vet, it is.) > > Thanks. Is there any way your vet does a home visit? If not, try to find one who does. Ask the vet to give a sedative so that your boy is asleep before he actually uses the eutnanaisia drug. That will make everything easier for everyone, and most of all, for your boy.
Sorry to hear you have such a tough decision ahead.
Hugs
Helen M
Philip - 30 May 2005 16:36 GMT > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Thanks. I second Helen's suggestion for calling in an in-home veterinary visit for euthanasia. There is a point in a cat's life where all you are doing is prolonging your pet's pain and it sure sounds like you've past that pivotal moment.
John Ross Mc Master - 30 May 2005 16:48 GMT 1chip-state1@earthlink.net IP # 64.203.38.114
OrgAbuseName: ABUSE TEAM OrgAbusePhone: +1-404-815-0770 OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@abuse.earthlink.net
John Doe - 30 May 2005 20:04 GMT troll
> Path: newssvr19.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm06.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!newshosting.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!140.99.99.194.MISMATCH!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!easynews-local!fe07.news.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail > From: John Ross Mc Master <pussycat cathouse.meow> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > OrgAbusePhone: +1-404-815-0770 > OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@abuse.earthlink.net dragon - 30 May 2005 17:11 GMT > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > bill payer for the last two years - we just don't have the cash flow to > spend a ton of money on anything these days. <snip>
This doesn't answer your question, but have you looked over the Feline Chronic Renal Failure site?
http://www.felinecrf.com/
My old boy, who is 15 as well, was diagnosed with CRF a year ago. We've been giving him sub-q therapy twice a week and his numbers are now in the normal range! This doesn't happen very often, but I can attest that it doesn't necessarily take thousands of dollars to treat a cat with "kidney issues." And, as you may learn if you continue to research CRF around the net (there are some great yahoo groups) K/D is not considered a good way to go for cats with this condition. This food has way too many carbs and is way too low protein to keep your cat healthy, IMHO. Better to switch to a high-quality food with meat as the first listed ingrediant. Many folks who kept their cats on food like K/D noticed that their cat's muscles were literally wasting away.
The other thing to consider discussing with your vet is having your cat's teeth cleaned, as there is a high correlation between bad teeth and disease, both in animals *and* people. Sasha's health improved greatly once we had his teeth done. I hope you consider treating your kitty before putting him down. All my best to you and your fuzzywuzzy.
dragon
Francesca - 30 May 2005 18:32 GMT Thanks to all who replied. I appreciate it. I am going to stay on this list - besides my 15-year old, I also live with two young girl kitties!
And Dragon- please believe me that putting my boy down is the last thing I want to do. It gets to be a source of great tension here when he pees on the carpet and rugs (at least rugs are more easily cleaned - the carpet took weeks last time to get the smell out). So there's that, which is a problem.
I guess that, like with doctors, I probably put too much blind faith in the vet. I'll check out the link you shared and investigate the food. His teeth have not been cleaned in a million years, so I will see about getting that done, too.
This kitty, whose name is Garbanzo, btw, is my special guy. I met him when he was a day old and said, "THAT'S THE ONE!" and they put a ribbon on him so I could have that exact cat when he was old enough to be weaned! He's been with me through thick and thin, and has saved my life, in a manner of speaking. Every night, without fail, for over 15 years, he waits for me in the bathroom, sitting atop the toilet - it's time to be brushed and exchange me kisses. (I say, "Gimme a kiss" and he lifts his head up to bump it on mine.) It makes me weepy, just telling you about that, because as I said before, Garbanzo is still "in there" - it's just his body that's going to hell. My father is elderly and in a nursing home and when I think about putting Garbanzo down, I think, "Would I put my father down, just because he's blind and needs a wheelchair? No! He's still the same guy, just older and weaker!"
Anyway, thanks again. I'll be checking back - you seem like good folks here! -Francesca
> <snip> I hope you consider treating your kitty before putting him down. All my best to you and your fuzzywuzzy.
friesian@zoocrewphoto.com - 30 May 2005 23:01 GMT > he lifts his head up to bump it on mine.) It makes me weepy, just > telling you about that, because as I said before, Garbanzo is still "in > there" - it's just his body that's going to hell. My father is elderly > and in a nursing home and when I think about putting Garbanzo down, I > think, "Would I put my father down, just because he's blind and needs a > wheelchair? No! He's still the same guy, just older and weaker!" I completely understand. I just put my 19 year old, Maynard, down last Tuesday. He was a very special boy, and he was still trying for the first few days of treatment. But I could tell when he gave up. He spent all of Monday letting everybody hold him for hours. My sister came over and held him for an hour and a half, and said he had never let her hold him that long. I had to work that day, and I spent my whole day worried that he would die without me. I just knew in my heart that he had given up on life. It was time for him to sleep. I got home from work and spent the whole night loving him up and took him in the morning.
It was the look in his eyes, the expression, and the way he moved. He still hauled himself to the kitty litter box, but there was no interest in food and just a sad look on his face.
It was the same with the my first cat (18 years old) and my first dog (14 years old, blind, and half deaf). There just comes a time when you know they have given up. And even Jasper, the injured stray, about 8 months old. I could tell when I got home from work that he wasn't going to make it through the night. Had there been a vet open, I would have taken him. I don't know how to explain it - I just knew.
Ray - 01 Jun 2005 00:33 GMT Wow, you can't even take a day off from work while your beloved cat was dying? What's wrong with you?
> him that long. I had to work that day, and I spent my whole day worried > that he would die without me. I just knew in my heart that he had given > up on life. It was time for him to sleep. I got home from work and > spent the whole night loving him up and took him in the morning. bigbadbarry - 01 Jun 2005 00:49 GMT > Wow, you can't even take a day off from work while your beloved cat was > dying? What's wrong with you? son my son!
maybe they didnt have a choice, I hardly think rubbing it in, is going to make them feel any better.
I tell ya what, between me and you, let's see who can be the first one to post a new topic here, and it's gotta be intelligent enough to make someone get a dictionary, and interesting enough to get say at least 5 replies.
ready set go
oh..and it can't be from a dialectic approach..(nothing negative)
Philip - 01 Jun 2005 00:50 GMT It's called taking care of business. The price for living indoors is .... you work. "Hello ... Hi Boss ... I've got a personal emergency ... I need to take the day off to sit with my sick cat at the vets ... ok?" Yeah, right.
> Wow, you can't even take a day off from work while your beloved cat > was dying? What's wrong with you? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> from work and spent the whole night loving him up and took him in >> the morning. Catnipped - 01 Jun 2005 02:09 GMT > It's called taking care of business. The price for living indoors is .... > you work. "Hello ... Hi Boss ... I've got a personal emergency ... I need to > take the day off to sit with my sick cat at the vets ... ok?" Yeah, > right. Yes, exactly right! When Bandit was injured I took off a week and a half from work so I could stay home and care for her. Some of us have a thing foreign to you called compassion and caring - look it up under "human emotions".
> > Wow, you can't even take a day off from work while your beloved cat > > was dying? What's wrong with you? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >> from work and spent the whole night loving him up and took him in > >> the morning. bigbadbarry - 01 Jun 2005 02:23 GMT > > It's called taking care of business. The price for living indoors is .... > > you work. "Hello ... Hi Boss ... I've got a personal emergency ... I need [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > >> from work and spent the whole night loving him up and took him in > > >> the morning. Now, you know (pause pause pause)
everyone can't take off.
I would agree however; that depending on how important it is...
but if you look at the facts, the average american is only one pay check away from poverty, it's just a fact.
One time, when my brother was injured, my Dads work gave him a year and 1/2 off with pay to tend to the family. My brother was severely injured in a construction accident; but not all employers feel this way,it really is a dog eat dog work a day world.
Catnipped - 01 Jun 2005 02:32 GMT > > > It's called taking care of business. The price for living indoors is .... > > > you work. "Hello ... Hi Boss ... I've got a personal emergency ... I need [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > in a construction accident; but not all employers feel this way,it > really is a dog eat dog work a day world. I couldn't just "take off" either - I had to use my vacation. So I don't get to go to the beach this summer, big deal, to *me* my cat was more important. To Philip, however, (and you would see this if you'd read his posts) his cat is *WAY* down on his list of things that are important to him - his own convenience being number one!
Hugs,
CatNipped
Meghan Noecker - 01 Jun 2005 04:16 GMT >I couldn't just "take off" either - I had to use my vacation. So I don't >get to go to the beach this summer, big deal, to *me* my cat was more >important. To Philip, however, (and you would see this if you'd read his >posts) his cat is *WAY* down on his list of things that are important to >him - his own convenience being number one! But I can't just take vacation either, not without scheduling it. We cover vacations by borrowing people from other stores. Once the schedule is written, we can't expect to get that kind of help.
Most people cannot just announce they want to take vacation time. And in my job, it is a week or nothing. I am not allowed to get vacation pay one day at a time. Nor am I allowed to work during the week of a vacation (they used to allow that but changed it).
If I can cover the shifts, I can take off time without pay. But the shifts much be covered. We don't have a lot of coverage. Two people open, one or two people work the middle shift (depending on the day), and two people close. They won't hire anybody new, so we have to borrow one girl from another department if they can spare her, or we have to borrow from another store.
I agree that this is stupid. We used to have better coverage. And they used to allow us to work 6 days without overtime, so it was easier to cover these things. But now the rules are different, and they won't let anybody work 6 days. So, if everybody has 5 days, there is no coverage if somebody is sick. And you better be really sick.
 Signature -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
Philip - 01 Jun 2005 04:43 GMT >> I couldn't just "take off" either - I had to use my vacation. So I >> don't get to go to the beach this summer, big deal, to *me* my cat >> was more important. To Philip, however, (and you would see this if >> you'd read his posts) his cat is *WAY* down on his list of things >> that are important to him - his own convenience being number one! Dear child: ALL pets are *WAY* down on the list of priorities when you have a wife, children, mortgage, etc. All things have to be paid for. Your mindset is rooted in substantial discretionary income or immaturity. And let us take this a step further. Even after the kids move out and the mortgage is paid off as in our case, and you've wised up about the dubious necessity of wasting assets like new vehicles every couple of years, you still have to keep working and contributing to your retirement nest egg. If your husband decided to join you in a sick kitty vigil at the vets instead of going to work for that paycheck, you'd lose respect for him. You can give lip service to the contrary which would only further emphasize your emotionalism.
snip
Mary - 01 Jun 2005 05:47 GMT > >> I couldn't just "take off" either - I had to use my vacation. So I > >> don't get to go to the beach this summer, big deal, to *me* my cat [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Dear child: You scumsucking, amoral, dried up old man. Meghan is no child. You are just ancient, bitter, and waiting to die. When Meghan is as old as you are, she will still be good. And you will still be rotten.
Catnipped - 01 Jun 2005 23:47 GMT > >> I couldn't just "take off" either - I had to use my vacation. So I > >> don't get to go to the beach this summer, big deal, to *me* my cat [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Dear child: ALL pets are *WAY* down on the list of priorities when you have > a wife, children, mortgage, etc. All things have to be paid for. To you. Not to anyone who *has* a heart.
> Your > mindset is rooted in substantial discretionary income or immaturity. My mindset is of someone who *has* a heart, compassion, the ability to feel *human* emotions!
> And let > us take this a step further. Even after the kids move out and the mortgage > is paid off as in our case, and you've wised up about the dubious necessity > of wasting assets like new vehicles every couple of years, you still have to > keep working and contributing to your retirement nest egg. My nest egg is fine, thank you, but if it took using up my nest egg in order to save a beloved pet then I'd probably do what 95% of the rest of the American public do and exist on social security!
> If your husband > decided to join you in a sick kitty vigil at the vets instead of going to > work for that paycheck, you'd lose respect for him. He has done and has gained respect in my eyes because of his compassion and caring - just as you've lost all my respect because of your *lack* of compassion and caring.
> You can give lip > service to the contrary which would only further emphasize your > emotionalism. You say "emotionalism" like emotions are a *bad* thing, which to you they are, but to most humans emotions are a positive thing.
> snip Mary - 02 Jun 2005 00:41 GMT > > >> I couldn't just "take off" either - I had to use my vacation. So I > > >> don't get to go to the beach this summer, big deal, to *me* my cat [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > You say "emotionalism" like emotions are a *bad* thing, which to you they > are, but to most humans emotions are a positive thing. Somebody just needs to set Phillip's short hairs alight one night. Since he claims there is a Mrs. Phillip I imagine she will just have enough and be the one to do it one day.
Catnipped - 01 Jun 2005 23:44 GMT > >I couldn't just "take off" either - I had to use my vacation. So I don't > >get to go to the beach this summer, big deal, to *me* my cat was more [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > let anybody work 6 days. So, if everybody has 5 days, there is no > coverage if somebody is sick. And you better be really sick. Wow, Meghan, that really sucks. I'm sorry. What do they do if someone gets seriously ill?
Since I am pretty "senior" in my profession ;>, I insist on 3 weeks of vacation before I take a job... to be used whenever and however I wish. I realize everyone is not able to do that, but you might want to look around for a job that's not so demanding and restrictive of your free time... if you can, of course.
Hugs,
CatNipped
> -- > Meghan & the Zoo Crew > Equine and Pet Photography > http://www.zoocrewphoto.com Meghan Noecker - 02 Jun 2005 00:20 GMT >Wow, Meghan, that really sucks. I'm sorry. What do they do if someone gets >seriously ill? If somebody is seriously ill, they will allow overtime, but it takes something like that. Then we all work 6 days a week whether we want to or not.
Several years ago, my department manager was out with cancer for 8 months. We went the first 4 months without any extra help. Our second person did the manager job, and we all just worked more hours.
One of the problems is that our hours go up and down with the time of year, time of month, and the weather. So, if they hire extra help when we are busy, then they everybody gets their hours cut when it is slow. Both options have some good and bad. But the shorthanded option is cheaper since everybody with 15 hours or more per week gets health insurance.
>Since I am pretty "senior" in my profession ;>, I insist on 3 weeks of >vacation before I take a job... to be used whenever and however I wish. I >realize everyone is not able to do that, but you might want to look around >for a job that's not so demanding and restrictive of your free time... if >you can, of course. I do have 5 weeks now since it has been 13 years since I was rehired. I had to quit when they wouldn't give me permission for a 3 week trip back in 1991. But even then, I still have to get permission for when to use it. Had I known 2 weeks ago that my cat was going to be ill, I could have asked for the week off. But he got sick on a wednesday night, well after the schedule was written. I was actually quite fortunate to have Thursday, Friday, Sunday, Tuesday, and Wednesday off.
I am working on my own personal business, and it is slowly picking up. And that would certainly free up my schedule. But I can't quit my job until I can make a living AND pay for health insurance. At least this way, I can cut back my hours at work and hang onto the insurance. I already have a standing request for only 4 shifts a week. I hope to take it down to 3 as soon as they hire a new person to relieve the hours.
 Signature -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
bigbadbarry - 01 Jun 2005 06:25 GMT > To Philip, however, (and you would see this if you'd read his > posts) his cat is *WAY* down on his list of things that are important to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > CatNipped (Rummaging casually through my over-sized desk drawer, I could dump every bit of it out, and never miss a thing)
Your comments concerning Phillip have been duly noted and will be taken under advisement.
I've come to welcome varying views as it can lend to a better balance.
Where your treasure is, there your heart is also.
To the hungry even the bitter tastes sweet.
Mary - 01 Jun 2005 15:50 GMT > > To Philip, however, (and you would see this if you'd read his > > posts) his cat is *WAY* down on his list of things that are important to [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > To the hungry even the bitter tastes sweet. "Free your mind, your a.s will follow"--Funkadelics, 1973.
bigbadbarry - 01 Jun 2005 16:46 GMT > > > To Philip, however, (and you would see this if you'd read his > > > posts) his cat is *WAY* down on his list of things that are important to [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > "Free your mind, your a.s will follow"--Funkadelics, 1973. lol
bigbadbarry - 01 Jun 2005 17:47 GMT > > > To Philip, however, (and you would see this if you'd read his > > > posts) his cat is *WAY* down on his list of things that are important to [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > "Free your mind, your a.s will follow"--Funkadelics, 1973. Thing is cracker breath
At least give me the courtesy of extending Phillip the benefit of the doubt.
I mean, your putting pressure on me to dis him, and I do know the fella is dying, now that's gotta suck!
I'm sure you feel the way you for more than one reason.
Mary - 01 Jun 2005 20:26 GMT > > > > To Philip, however, (and you would see this if you'd read his > > > > posts) his cat is *WAY* down on his list of things that are important to [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > I'm sure you feel the way you for more than one reason. Complete non sequitur. And I don't put pressure on anyone to dis anything.
Here is the point: When you post a quote, include the author.
bigbadbarry - 01 Jun 2005 21:01 GMT "Complete non sequitur. And I don't put pressure on anyone to dis anything."
"Here is the point: When you post a quote, include the author."
scews me.
In my previous post, I left all the quoted text in. By default, google's web based interface collapses the entire quote, but leaves a link above the new post to expand the qouted text, they even provide a link that says, "Show quoted text".
Don't be sittin up there watching me like a chicken now.
or..better..instead of taking little chops at it, hell go for broke state your damn case and stop pussy footin around with it g_d_am_it. you got a f.cking case to state...bring it on baby! Say it big and say it loud. Spare me the f.cking pleasantries.
What do you want to say...what
what is wrong, who did what...what
either your perpetrating a fraud or you not.
Your gonna have to better than, he's old and wretched.
And it can't be about his cat care, cause at least the beasts are eating.
bigbadbarry - 01 Jun 2005 21:10 GMT > Complete non sequitur. And I don't put pressure on anyone to > dis anything. > > Here is the point: When you post a quote, include the author. Mary, I'm sorry, it's not you. It's nothing you said or did. I didn't mean to yell.
I'm having all kinds of wrenches thrown into my immaculate plans, with my business. Sometimes you eat bear sometimes it eats you.
I've been running fast and furious all morning, now it's 4 oclock, and Im still putting out fires.
I was just venting, It was wrong, Im sorry.
If you happen to post before this gets to your screen, then, well, I don't blame ya for whatever you come back with.
Your good btw, I've never seen someone with such a strong mind. It's frightening.
Ok.
Back to work for me.
Don't be hatin!
Mary - 01 Jun 2005 22:50 GMT > > Complete non sequitur. And I don't put pressure on anyone to > > dis anything. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Don't be hatin! Dear Barry,
It's okay, I still love you. Keep your chin up, you will overcome the business difficulties.
As for hating, there are battles worthy of our weapons. Hating the hatable is very good exercise. In my heart, mind, and soul, I am all sweetness and light. Primarily because I release the evil stuff into the atmosphere. :) Sorry about any fallout, my friend. And try to be a good boy.
Contrary Mary
Scratch - 01 Jun 2005 17:59 GMT > > > > It's called taking care of business. The price for living indoors is > .... [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > CatNipped Hello
I know how that is, we have two cats floating around here somewhere, one is grey one is solid black, both are females one is Mammy the other is Scarlet.
I spent almost $400.00 recently on vets and "groomings" and had to dip into my savings, blah. My money is just felt and dealt, sometimes I don't even get to smell it.
Toodles
Meghan Noecker - 01 Jun 2005 04:00 GMT >Yes, exactly right! When Bandit was injured I took off a week and a half >from work so I could stay home and care for her. Some of us have a thing >foreign to you called compassion and caring - look it up under "human >emotions". That would have been great, but I can't just call in and take a vacation like that. There was no way to cover my shifts without overtime, and it has to be true illness to get away with that.
 Signature -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
Ashley - 01 Jun 2005 08:24 GMT >>Yes, exactly right! When Bandit was injured I took off a week and a half >>from work so I could stay home and care for her. Some of us have a thing [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > vacation like that. There was no way to cover my shifts without > overtime, and it has to be true illness to get away with that. I have real empathy for people working under those conditions. Actually, I have real empathy for anyone who only gets 2 weeks' holiday a year! I've never worked under those conditions, and I can't imagine tolerating it, but I understand that many people have to. I guess I'll have to when I set up my business at the end of this year, but that's slightly different.
Meghan Noecker - 01 Jun 2005 23:32 GMT >I have real empathy for people working under those conditions. Actually, I >have real empathy for anyone who only gets 2 weeks' holiday a year! I've >never worked under those conditions, and I can't imagine tolerating it, but >I understand that many people have to. I guess I'll have to when I set up my >business at the end of this year, but that's slightly different. At my job, you earn one week vacation after one year, 2 weeks after 2 years, 3 weeks after 5 years, and 5 weeks after 12 years.
You may take unpaid time off with permission from management. It is completely up to management to allow it or not.
Sick leave is only granted on the 3rd day and after, and it requires a doctor's note. Sick pets do not count. You can call in sick for a single day, but if they determine that you lied, you can be fired on the spot.
All of that aside. The simple fact is that there was no way to cover my shifts, and you have to be truly sick to call in when it can't be covered.
 Signature -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
Mary - 02 Jun 2005 00:39 GMT > All of that aside. The simple fact is that there was no way to cover my shifts, and you have to be truly sick to call in when it can't be covered.
I have been through something similar, many years ago. I wish there was some way you could have your own business. I don't know what kind, but you are young enough and capable enough. Think about it.
Meghan Noecker - 02 Jun 2005 04:58 GMT >> All of that aside. The simple fact is that there was no way to cover my >shifts, and you have to be truly sick to call in when it can't be covered. > >I have been through something similar, many years ago. I wish there was some >way you could have your own business. I don't know what kind, but you are >young enough and capable enough. Think about it. I actually do have my own business, but it is a very slow process to build it up. I do animal photography. I started out with horse shows, and I am adding in the cats and dogs this year. I go to shows as a vendor to sell my custom products and promote my photography. This winter, I will start working on magazine submissions and articles.
It's kind of a catch 22. I need the job for the steady income and health insurance. But I need more time off to advance my business. I currently have a standing request for 3 days off each week, with some additional special requests as needed. I may not like my job much, but I do get most of my special requests, and in the summer, that ends up being a lot of 3 day weekends. I just have to get them in early before anybody else does, so I am first. I use my vacations for longer shows.
I am hoping she hires somebody soon so that I can cut back to working only 2-3 days some weeks. Especially since vacation season is starting and I have a lot of shows scheduled.
I'm doing a cat show this weekend, and it is going to be especially tough for me. I've been adjusting my display as I get reactions from spectators, and I decided I need to add a banner that promotes my custom products. I was waiting for the paycheck on May 19th to place the order for the banner. I used the money on Maynard. No regrets. Maynard was certainly a much higher priority, but I will not have the new banner for this show. And to make things worse, this Sunday was to be Maynard's 19th birthday. I was planning to have a birthday celebration at the show, with a photo cake to attract attention. Instead, I will be spending any spare time at the show on my memorial book for Maynard.
 Signature -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
Ashley - 02 Jun 2005 05:59 GMT >>I have real empathy for people working under those conditions. Actually, I >>have real empathy for anyone who only gets 2 weeks' holiday a year! I've [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > At my job, you earn one week vacation after one year, 2 weeks after 2 > years, 3 weeks after 5 years, and 5 weeks after 12 years. Arrrrggh! I couldn't do it! Statutory minimum here is 3 weeks, about to go up to four next year (I have negotiated 5 where I am). And we get 11 public holidays a year.
> You may take unpaid time off with permission from management. It is > completely up to management to allow it or not. > > Sick leave is only granted on the 3rd day and after, and it requires a > doctor's note. Arrrrgggh! (Again.) Statutory minimum here is five, I get 10. They cannot ask you for a doctor's note until the third day - unless they have justifiable reason (which they are willing to argue in court) to believe you're skiving. Most places allow sick leave to accumulate up to 15-20 days. Mine accumulates up to 75. My collective contract (unionised) colleagues have theirs accumulating up to 150.
Sick pets do not count. You can call in sick for a
> single day, but if they determine that you lied, you can be fired on > the spot. I do have to say, US labour practices are not highly regarded over here. Yes, I know some firms treat their employees really well, but it's the lack of realistic statutory minimums that get real disapproval.
> All of that aside. The simple fact is that there was no way to cover > my shifts, and you have to be truly sick to call in when it can't be > covered. Over here, that's called a business planning problem, not an individual employee problem.
Meghan Noecker - 02 Jun 2005 23:52 GMT >> At my job, you earn one week vacation after one year, 2 weeks after 2 >> years, 3 weeks after 5 years, and 5 weeks after 12 years. > >Arrrrggh! I couldn't do it! Statutory minimum here is 3 weeks, about to go >up to four next year (I have negotiated 5 where I am). And we get 11 public >holidays a year. Dan. My job has only 5 paid holidays, and those are not guaranteed off. We get paid 4, 6, o5 8 hours based on our average hours regardless of whether we work. And if we work the holiday, we get paid time and a half. Until last year, we only closed on Christmas. This past year, they asked for volunteers to to be open for 6 hours on Christmas day and they had a lot of sales, so now it will be a required work day. We can request it off, but only a few people will actually get it off.
>> You may take unpaid time off with permission from management. It is >> completely up to management to allow it or not. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >Mine accumulates up to 75. My collective contract (unionised) colleagues >have theirs accumulating up to 150. we can accumulate up to 3 weeks of paid sick leave, but the first 2 days are unpaid (to discourage people lying). And once you miss 3 days of work, you are required to have a doctor's note that releases you to return to work. I have been there 16 years and used only 7 days of sick pay. One of those was actually a nice boss who gave me 2 days pay even though I was only entitled to one day.I had lower hours that week, so he knew I would have a horrible paycheck.
>I do have to say, US labour practices are not highly regarded over here. >Yes, I know some firms treat their employees really well, but it's the lack >of realistic statutory minimums that get real disapproval. I would agree. And to be honest, I have pretty good benefits compared to many other jobs. A lot of places do not offer health insurance, or only give it to people with 40 hours per week, and thus schedule everybody 38 hours to prevent that. And we have a union, so they can't just fire us without some form of representation. But our contract did get worse after the last contract negotiation. Sunday pay went down. Hours were restricted. Benefits went down. And our co-pays all went up. It's still better than many other jobs, but I get less take-home pay for the same hours of work. And our bosses know how to punish us while staying within the rules.
>> All of that aside. The simple fact is that there was no way to cover >> my shifts, and you have to be truly sick to call in when it can't be >> covered. > >Over here, that's called a business planning problem, not an individual >employee problem. Yes, I do wish they would just hire somebody, or promote somebody. We even have somebody who signed up that would be great. But my boss is very particular about who she hires. I don't want to sound racist, but she is one ethnic group, and she doesn't want anybody outside that group.They are very entrenched in their culture. Those employees work fine with me when the boss isn't around, but they have to follow rules that are not official rules. They will cut corners to do as she says, and since they speak another language, I do not know what they say.
When she came to our store, she brought 5 of her own employees, and pushed out most of our crew. Several transferred to escape. One quit, and one retired early. There are only 3 of us left (2 white, one a different ethnic group). I am partially protected because the store manager liked me from before and told her to be nice to me. She does mess with my schedule and make rude comments, but nothing that will bring the union to action. The girl of the other ethnic group is treated a little better, but also gets jerked around.
We had another white girl trained to help, but she was very unhappy about that. And now the person who signed up for the promotion is yet another ethnic group. Not white, but not hers either. I have tried to tell her that he would be really good. He works hard, has a great attitude, and would do well. And since all new people work at night, and I end up training them, I don't see the problem. I think he would be great, and our hours problem would be relieved.
 Signature -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
Camilla Cracchiolo - 02 Jun 2005 09:17 GMT >>Yes, exactly right! When Bandit was injured I took off a week and a half >>from work so I could stay home and care for her. Some of us have a thing >>foreign to you called compassion and caring - look it up under "human >>emotions". I'm sure you do. Unfortunately, employers don't always have those things called compassion and caring.
___________________________________________________
Camilla Cracchiolo Registered Nurse Los Angeles, California
camilla4@mindspring.com webpage temporarily down
Meghan Noecker - 01 Jun 2005 03:56 GMT >It's called taking care of business. The price for living indoors is .... >you work. "Hello ... Hi Boss ... I've got a personal emergency ... I need to >take the day off to sit with my sick cat at the vets ... ok?" Yeah, >right. Yes, and my boss will be really understanding. Back when her mother was dying, she left her dogs locked in the garage for 2-3 days at a time. We offered to go and feed them, and she wouldn't let us. If I had known where she lived, I would have reported her.
When I came back to work after Maynard had died, she tried to sound sympathetic, but said that this is a good thing. I have a new cat now, and that's how things go.
So, she tried to eb helpful but obviously doesn't have the concept. The others were much better.
 Signature -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
Philip - 01 Jun 2005 04:25 GMT >> It's called taking care of business. The price for living indoors is >> .... you work. "Hello ... Hi Boss ... I've got a personal emergency [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > time. We offered to go and feed them, and she wouldn't let us. If I > had known where she lived, I would have reported her. Some people (the owner of the garaged dogs) render a cascade of poor decisions under stress while others are loathed to accept Samaritan assistance for a variety of fears. Ya can't save the world.
> When I came back to work after Maynard had died, she tried to sound > sympathetic, but said that this is a good thing. I have a new cat now, > and that's how things go. > > So, she tried to be helpful but obviously doesn't have the concept. > The others were much better. Based on the above, this is not a friend you rely on ... I hope.
Meghan Noecker - 01 Jun 2005 04:45 GMT >>> It's called taking care of business. The price for living indoors is >>> .... you work. "Hello ... Hi Boss ... I've got a personal emergency [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >Based on the above, this is not a friend you rely on ... I hope. LOL.
Nope. It's all I can do to put up with her.
 Signature -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
Ashley - 01 Jun 2005 08:21 GMT > It's called taking care of business. The price for living indoors is .... > you work. "Hello ... Hi Boss ... I've got a personal emergency ... I need > to take the day off to sit with my sick cat at the vets ... ok?" Yeah, > right. Actually, the place I work, a couple of years ago a colleague did, indeed, use some of her sick leave to be with her dying cat, and then grieve. I was there when she took the call from the vet and got horribly upset. I told her to go home and then informed the boss what had happened. She didn't come in for another couple of days. Leave was granted.
Philip - 01 Jun 2005 16:37 GMT >> It's called taking care of business. The price for living indoors is >> .... you work. "Hello ... Hi Boss ... I've got a personal emergency [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > had happened. She didn't come in for another couple of days. Leave > was granted. So you want a day off?
So you want a day off. Let's take a look at what you are asking for.
There are 365 days per year available for work.
There are 52 weeks per year in which you already have 2 days off per week, leaving 261 days available for work.
Since you spend 16 hours each day away from work, you have used up 170 days, leaving only 91 days available.
You spend 30 minutes each day on coffee break which counts for 23 days each year, leaving only 68 days available.
With a 1 hour lunch each day, you used up another 46 days, leaving only 22 days available for work.
You normally spend 2 days per year on sick leave.
This leaves you only 20 days per year available for work.
We are off 5 holidays per year, so your available working time is down to 15 days.
We generously give 14 days vacation per year which leaves only 1 day available for work.
There's no way I'll let you take that day off!
Ashley - 01 Jun 2005 20:46 GMT > There's no way I'll let you take that day off! You don't have to - I don't work for you :-)
Meghan Noecker - 01 Jun 2005 03:54 GMT >Wow, you can't even take a day off from work while your beloved cat was >dying? What's wrong with you? I work in a grocery store. When there are only two employees in the department for the evening, it's pretty bad to lose one of them. If I could have covered my shift, I would have. But there wasn't anybody available. Everybody was already scheduled 40 hours. I was the only one with less than 40 hours. If I call in sick for a dying cat, I will be written up. And you have to remember, I did not know how long his condition would last. To call in sick early and then have him get worse would mean calling in sick more. Three times and I could get fired. That would not do my other cats any good.
I was actually very fortunate that I had Tuhrsday and Friday off (we doscovered the yellow ears Wednesday night), so I was able to go to the vet both days and spend a lot of time with him. I had to work Saturday, but he seemed better then. Then had Sunday off, had to work Monday, then took him in Tuesday morning.
So, do you have a job where they don't notice if you show up or not?
 Signature -- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com
Lesley - 01 Jun 2005 10:59 GMT had to work that day, and I spent my whole day worried that he would die without me. I just knew in my heart that he had given
up on life. It was time for him to sleep.
I was at work when Isis passed (Dave was there through) and through she seemed fine in the morning, about 10.00 I remember walkin to another office and having to stop and cry because I suddenly knew this was going to be the day.... I called Dave about 12.10 and he said she was fine, she'd just pigged her lunch and was having her afternoon nap....and even then I couldn't shake the feeling, kept telling myself "you're being silly, Dave says she's fine."....about 12.30 he called to say she'd passed over the bridge in her sleep
Lesley
Slave of the Fabulous Furballs
chrisoakey@msn.com - 30 May 2005 18:52 GMT My cat was diagnosed with blood tests with kidney disease 5 years ago, and although, wobbly in the legs and not always going in his litter tray, is still plodding on. He has been on Waltham renal support pouches cat food. Twice now, when he got bad, he had one weeks worth of antibiotic injections and they seemed to put him back to normal.
Best Wishes Chris
Francesca - 30 May 2005 19:00 GMT Is the Waltham renal support pouch something one gets from the vet?
Your story gives me hope!
> My cat was diagnosed with blood tests with kidney disease 5 years ago, > and although, wobbly in the legs and not always going in his litter [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Best Wishes > Chris chrisoakey@msn.com - 30 May 2005 19:05 GMT Yes, we get it from the vets, it comes in chicken or beef flavour. Also, get the weeks worth of antibiotics too! I am in the UK so I hope you can get the pouches if you are elsewhere.
Chris
bigbadbarry - 30 May 2005 20:47 GMT > Thanks. Look, I don't know what it costs to put him to sleep, but whatever you are thinking for alternative; throw it outcha mind!
Yule goto jail!
Better leave that cat alone to live out his days in peace. good heaven's if it was me, I'd be like
hey hey hey! don't push to the grave! I always say! hey hey hey
bigbadbarry - 30 May 2005 20:56 GMT > > Thanks. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > hey hey hey! don't push to the grave! I always say! hey hey hey I am sorry for any of your cat's sufferings, I really am.
But sometimes, I think and old man would prefer to suffer a little...and stay alive you know...hey hey hey!
Your gonna miss him! you know that. I think it's just hard because we are connected to pets we love and we share in this suffering.
I say...have a little talk with your cat, and ask him what he wants. You might be suprised as to what he thinks, (they have a way of communicating)...it might take us days sometimes, but then it hits us what they were trying to say.
Best to you and your buddy!
Mary - 30 May 2005 20:56 GMT > > Thanks. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > hey hey hey! don't push to the grave! I always say! hey hey hey Barry. What did you do last night that left you brain-damaged today?
bigbadbarry - 30 May 2005 21:02 GMT > > > Thanks. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Barry. What did you do last night that left you brain-damaged today? Well, in spite of suffering a man can take some pain...and I tell ya, women can take more pain than men, ya'll give birth! you know...
My point is..what is wrong with suffering a little with the cat.
Why does is need to be anything other than, how are you today wiskers?
You know. Hell, lets go clear out all the nursing homes..most of them are in pain.
My back has been hurting me for 20 years and Im still a young man.
Iii say, give the little fella some mild pain killers or something. Do what we do for the old folks.
Mary - 30 May 2005 21:15 GMT > > > > Thanks. > > > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Iii say, give the little fella some mild pain killers or something. > Do what we do for the old folks. Her cat is dying. She wanted to know the kindest way to keep him from suffering. WTF is wrong with you?
bigbadbarry - 30 May 2005 21:22 GMT "Mary" <
> Her cat is dying. She wanted to know the kindest way > to keep him from suffering. WTF is wrong with you? You take him out back and handle your business WTF is wrong with you!
Francesca - 30 May 2005 21:30 GMT Oy, BBB- it's not the cost of putting him to sleep that causes me such pain. Not the financial cost at all - it's the emotional cost for him and me, should that become necessary! So my question had been, originally, if there was a *gentler* option for when it was time, *not* a cheaper option.
I most certainly do not want to push him to the grave. My concerns continue to be that (a) he does not feel well; (b) we cannot afford many of the treatments the vet has suggested; (c) using the alternative (k/d food) does not necessarily stop the cat from peeing outside the box, which causes tension in my household because, you know, cat urine on carpets and wood floors is not pleasant and can be destructive.
I have read some good suggestions here, though, and will follow up on them. I want my boy to live as long as possible. There are no words to describe the love I have for that cat. The other side of this is not to force undue suffering upon him - it's very hard to know what the right thing to do is and where being selfish comes into the picture (ie, keeping him alive when he's in horrible discomfort just because I don't want to miss him).
Thanks for your input! -Francesca
>>Thanks. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > hey hey hey! don't push to the grave! I always say! hey hey hey! bigbadbarry - 30 May 2005 22:03 GMT > Oy, BBB- it's not the cost of putting him to sleep that causes me such > pain. Not the financial cost at all - it's the emotional cost for him [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > keeping him alive when he's in horrible discomfort just because I don't > want to miss him). I understand what your saying. I really do. I have an old Tom, me and him are thick as thieves.
I've never owned a pet for 15 years, I know they are part of the family.
I am also sure the good Lord will give you the grace, you need right when you need it. As well as the wisdom and the timing, in making your choices.
I believe it touches the Lord's heart when we do right by animals, you got God on your side.
Mary - 30 May 2005 22:47 GMT > Oy, BBB- it's not the cost of putting him to sleep that causes me such > pain. Not the financial cost at all - it's the emotional cost for him > and me, should that become necessary! So my question had been, > originally, if there was a *gentler* option for when it was time, *not* > a cheaper option. Francesca,
My vet came to my place and put my beloved 20-year-old to sleep on my bed, where she always slept. I petted her and spoke to her and kind of tented her with my arms and she died very peacefully with my voice in her ears and my scent surrounding her. My vet did not even charge any extra, not that this matters. A really kind vet will do this. They even sent a vet tech out with the vet, and the vet, a woman, cried right along with me and they both hugged me. They were gentle and sweet to Gnarly, too.
John Doe - 30 May 2005 22:55 GMT > Path: newssvr19.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm06.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01b.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail > From: "bigbadbarry" <bigbadbarry adelphia.net> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > hey hey hey! don't push to the grave! I always say! hey hey hey friesian@zoocrewphoto.com - 30 May 2005 22:16 GMT > So I'm writing to see if there are alternatives. Is there something I > can give him when the time comes that will send him off in a gentle, > sleep-like way? Is going to the vet and using their shots the only > option? (According to the vet, it is.) Call around and ask the vets in your area.
We moved across town, so I don't go to my old vet as much anymore, but i did last week when I had to put Maynard to sleep, and this is why.
The vet will come out to the car and put my dog or cat to sleep, in the privacy of my van, with my cat or dog relaxed on my lap. No office stress for my cat or dog. And no crying in public for me.
I have my mom take me since I know I will be crying. She calls ahead to let them know what we want. When we get there, she goes in, pays, and fills out the papers, and returns to the car. When it is our turn, they come out and do it. So, I have a private wait and last goodbye. No metal tables, carriers, or other added stress.
I have done 2 cats and a dog this way. All went peacefully, in my lap. Maynard was kind of sitting up and just slowly slumped down. He was gone before the shot was done.
It could not have gone any better.
On the other hand, Jasper, the injured stray, died at home, and it was NOT peaceful. It was in the middled of the nigt, so I could not get him to a vet. He convulsed and vomited for half an hour before he died. He was either in horrible distress, or so out of it that he would not have known I was there. It was very traumatic, and it is still to date, the worst day and memory of my life. That was 5 years ago July. The only positive to that, is that I stopped doubt my decision about my first cat and dog. And I had no doubts about Maynard. Having it done by a vet is far better than taking your chances at home. It may happen well with some pets, but dying at home peacefully is not guaranteed.
So, I would really recommend checking with local vets. Also check the websites for vets that do low-cost spay/neuter. Many of them are located in lower income areas, so all of their rates are lower. My old vet is in a lower income area, so their rates are lower. It was $30 to euthanize Maynard.
Also ask if you get to keep the body. Some places don't let you keep them, so they include a disposal fee or cremation fee. We have always taken them home to let the other cats and dogs see them and know it is goodbye. Then we bury them.
Camilla Cracchiolo - 04 Jun 2005 08:26 GMT >Mon, 30 May 2005 15:10:25 GMT, Francesca <felinewarrior@verizOn on.net> wrote:
>So I'm writing to see if there are alternatives. Is there something I >can give him when the time comes that will send him off in a gentle, >sleep-like way? Is going to the vet and using their shots the only >option? (According to the vet, it is.) First, my sincere condolences to both you and your cat. These decisions are never easy.
I had one cat with kidney failure who did pass on in her sleep and it was a good thing, I think. I also had to put down my greatly beloved, if elderly, cat Victor about a year ago. He had a very painful cancer of his face.
When the time came, I had a vet come to the home rather than force him to face a trip to the office, which always scared him. It wasn't cheap but much better for him.
I knew it was time to stop holding on to him when he stopped eating entirely. Previous to that I had insisted the vet give him pain meds we could give him at home. Some people are determined to call you cruel if you don't put your cat down at the first sign of disease. But the pain meds worked well and he had a good quality of life for 2 extra months.
When it came time to euthanize him, I first gave him a double dose of his pain meds ahead of time, and held him the whole time the vet gave him an anesthetic/sedative (so he would be unconscious and not scared and so the needle wouldn't hurt). Then we put him on a pillow on a table and the vet gave him a shot directly into the heart and that was it.
It's much more humane for the kitty to do this at home, but watching that final shot is hard. I kind of wish now that I hadn't watched the last shot. But Victor had a calm and peaceful death
>Anyway, as my boy goes on, walking is harder, he sleeps more and more, >and has recently started peeing on the floor - a sign that we need to go >back to the vet. Once there, it's likely they'll do the usual, >prescribe an antibiotic, perhaps hydrate him. You should know that you can hydrate your cat yourself at home, with an IV bag. It's very easy, and it's significantly cheaper than having the vet do it. We hydrated both Victor and our other old cat for a long time. Regular hydration at home can make the cat feel much better for days and can prolong their lives.
Good luck.
>Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >metal table with bright lights overhead. I need not to do that again. >It seems too harsh.
>Thanks. ___________________________________________________
Camilla Cracchiolo Registered Nurse Los Angeles, California
camilla4@mindspring.com webpage temporarily down
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