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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / May 2005Too cruel?
I'd like to teach my two rather wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least to give them something entertaining and instructive to do. I want them to be more like my girlfriends' cats, that cool cat who killed bunnies and birds. I am considering the idea of buying several small rodents from the pet store and releasing them in the house. I'm very curious to see how the kittens will react. Will they give chase? I sure hope so. Anway, am I crazy? Cruel? More importantly, will the kitties benefit from this 'war game'? What kind of rodent should I buy? Thanks :) > I'd like to teach my two rather wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > to give them something entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks :) Yes, I think that's cruel. You are getting those rodents from a PET store, they are meant to be pets. I doubt the kitties will benefit. Get them some toys, it will be the same thing.  Signature-Kelly >> I'd like to teach my two rather wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least >> to give them something entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > I doubt the kitties will benefit. Get them some toys, it will be the > same thing. Kelly ... somebody is holding your tail while you pull it to get free. LOL I used to breed mice to feed my snake. One day I came home to their cage being knocked over, and they were running around. My cats made several friends that day.... > I'd like to teach my two rather wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > to give them something entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks :) > I'd like to teach my two rather wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > to give them something entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks :) I admire your honesty. Don't worry they will hunt! By instinct...it's all built in...the very thing your wanting to teach them to do, will become a nusiance. Yule come in the kitchen wanting some hot coffee...still waking up, and you'll step on a cold dead bloddy wabbit...before breakfast.. sorta like, the Godfather...big bloody scare! Don't encourage the kids! > I'd like to teach my two rather wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > to give them something entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks :) I suggest you also get a couple of 10 foot snakes so the kittens learn how to avoid being prey themselves. > > I'd like to teach my two rather wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > > to give them something entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > I suggest you also get a couple of 10 foot snakes so the kittens learn > how to avoid being prey themselves. Months of being a total pain in the a.s, and you let loose with this, which makes it all worth it. >> I'd like to teach my two rather wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least >> to give them something entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I suggest you also get a couple of 10 foot snakes so the kittens learn > how to avoid being prey themselves. Maybe you could get a sex partner with AIDS? >>>I'd like to teach my two rather wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least >>>to give them something entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Maybe you could get a sex partner with AIDS? I'm a graduate of survival school. > I'd like to teach my two rather wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > to give them something entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks :) That's entirely unnecessary. Cats are instinctively very efficient hunters, and really don't need that sort of training. Simple little kitty toys work just as well to help them hone those skills. I'd also argue that it's cruel, but I won't belabor that opinion. I'll just repeat that there's simply no need to teach them what they already instinctively know. Remember, right now they're kittens, not full-grown terrors of the neighborhood. They'll be hunting soon enough. I have a better idea, how about we put u into a caged in zoo environment that holds bears or lions and see how if the bear attacks u. Might make the bear tougher right, war like nature game. Are you screwed in the head? Why would u torchure a little mouse etc. There's no such thing as rodents in the pet store, they are all pets meant to be family members!!!! You're sick! If you ask me you're the rodent!! If you want the cats to chase something get a ball or string and u my friend u need to seek mental help!!!! If u need entertainment from blood and war watch TV, don't breed killers! U don't deserve pets! > I have a better idea, how about we put u into a caged in zoo > environment that holds bears or lions and see how if the bear attacks > u. Might make the bear tougher right, war like nature game. Oh, no, we cannot do that because it is illegal and so there would be CONSEQUENCES. Whereas, it is not illegal to purchase and then torture mice or rats or other "dirty vermin," as he so eloquently put it. Are you > screwed in the head? Why would u torchure a little mouse etc. > There's no such thing as rodents in the pet store, they are all pets > meant to be family members!!!! You're sick! If you ask me you're the > rodent!! If you want the cats to chase something get a ball or string > and u my friend u need to seek mental help!!!! If u need entertainment > from blood and war watch TV, don't breed killers! U don't deserve pets! Plus, mice and rats are very smart. Not to mention very cute. > I have a better idea, You are not objective enough to judge if your idea is "better." > how about we put u into a caged in zoo > environment that holds bears or lions and see how if the bear attacks > u. See ... I was right. >Might make the bear tougher right, war like nature game. Are you > screwed in the head? Why would u torchure a little mouse etc. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > from blood and war watch TV, don't breed killers! U don't deserve > pets! Are you one of those miltant vegans by any chance? If not, what about the animal parts YOU eat? Personally, once in awhile I enjoy a slab of grilled bovine connective tissue. -Philip PETA. People Eating Tasty Animals > > I have a better idea, > > You are not objective enough to judge if your idea is "better." Pfft! Like you are! Objectivity in and of itself is impossible for the human animal. Period. You're sick too! So many people don't deserve pets. The world is not ours, it's ours to share with animals, neither is superior. And no I do not eat animals! > You're sick too! So many people don't deserve pets. The world is not > ours, it's ours to share with animals, neither is superior. And no I > do not eat animals! You are saying that I am "sick too?" This implies that you know you are sick. Actually, *your* world is not yours to command. How long have you been under psychiatric supervision? I knew it. Another whacked out super militant vegan. Have some meat ... it will normalize your brain chemistry. "If we were not meant to eat animals, then ... why are some so tasty!?" Look in a cat's mouth. What are those teeth designed to do? It sure as hell has nothing to do with mulching plant material. I never said I was sick, I was saying the original one who posted is. I'm not discussing anything with ignorant minded people. > I never said I was sick, Yes you did. You're sick. > I was saying the original one who posted is. Pot/kettle/black > I'm not discussing anything with ignorant minded people. That would limit your discussions to like minded vegetables inside your head ... you condescending twit. > You're sick too! So many people don't deserve pets. The world is not > ours, it's ours to share with animals, neither is superior. And no I do > not eat animals! You big dummy. I am superior to snails and and monkeys. Don't say you won't eat meat. Thats' the dumbest thing I've ever heard. You won't eat them (LIAR!!!!!)... You are lying...aintcha! You won't eat them but you will wear them? They are breed for food and for hide. You just don't want the food. MO FOR ME! >> You're sick too! So many people don't deserve pets. The world is not >> ours, it's ours to share with animals, neither is superior. And no I do [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >MO FOR ME! Hey! Did anyone go to any good Kill and Grill's for Memorial Day? eq >>> You're sick too! So many people don't deserve pets. The world is not >>> ours, it's ours to share with animals, neither is superior. And no [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > eq Little out of season for BamBi-Que here. ;-) (For the ignorant, that's venison with an Emeril Lagase BAM!! seasoning). Road Kill Cafe is having a weekend special on Chopper liver with smashed wabbit on PETA bread. 1chip-state1@earthlink.net IP # 64.203.38.114 OrgAbuseName: ABUSE TEAM OrgAbusePhone: +1-404-815-0770 OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@abuse.earthlink.net You big dummy. I am superior to snails and and monkeys. > Don't say you won't eat meat. Thats' the dumbest thing I've ever heard. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > MO FOR ME! This is neither here nor there. Not u or anyone is superior to any animal, snails or monkeys as u say. We are all put on this earth to respect eachother and learn to live together. I do not condone anyone for eating meat at all, I just hope all animals are treated well in their short life. If one chooses to wear fur or what have u, I understand the process of life I just hope all are treated as good as we'd like to be treated ourselves. Now being a vegatarian has nothing to do with this topic. I was merely stating animals are life and neither ours or theirs is more important or superior. As per Philip I was clearly being sarcastic when I said to throw that original poster in a zoo with bears, I was clearly suggesting how absolutely obsurd his idea was to buy rodents for his cats to torchure. Same ridiculous idea called sarcasm. If u haven't heard of it, look it up! Jacquie > Now being a vegatarian has nothing to do with this topic. I was merely > stating animals are life and neither ours or theirs is more important > or superior. > Jacquie Wow, I really am touched by your patience and your nice words, your kindness..Im am totally sold on Jacquie. however: your nice words make me feel bad, I'm sorry for calling you a big dummy I was wrong (again)... *walks off kicking a can* Hugs bigbadbarry > You big dummy. I am superior to snails and and monkeys. That's OPEN for public debate! > This is neither here nor there. Not u or anyone is superior to any > animal, snails or monkeys as u say. We are all put on this earth to > respect eachother and learn to live together. Ignorant secular humanist blather. Animals don't respect each other. The classification "PREDATOR" proves "we" (meaning all animals on this earth) are not here to do a Rodney King "Can we just all get along?" > I do not condone anyone > for eating meat at all, You do not condone? Freudian slip for when you should have used the word "condemn." In fact you strongly disapprove of any animal eating another animal. What about Vegetable Rights? Hmmm? Rights not to be sprayed with insect killing chemicals and being eaten by humankind? Well? Plants have feelings too ... don't they! ;^) snip > Now being a vegatarian has nothing to do with this topic. Yes it does. Deliberate abstinence from meat is a conscious decision and for many, a social statement of alleged superiority. Do you drive a green car too? Maybe you walk everywhere. > I was merely stating animals are life and neither ours or theirs > is more important or superior. Patently false. You believe in nothing therefor, you embrace every crackpot theology passing by. > As per Philip I was clearly being sarcastic when I said to throw that > original poster in a zoo with bears, I was clearly suggesting how [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Jacquie Here's a mouse ... a pet store mouse. Your cat is one of those hybrids that actually needs a little LIVE meat in it's diet. Gonna toss the mouse to your cat? Or are you going to force some veggie based diet like Avoderm for Cats on this pet? This won't be like tossing a bisket to dog .... catching it mid air. No, a cat will hunt down, wound, play with the prey, and then when it stops moving, kill it. Lovable little furballs ... cats. > > You big dummy. I am superior to snails and and monkeys. > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > mid air. No, a cat will hunt down, wound, play with the prey, and then when > it stops moving, kill it. Lovable little furballs ... cats. Philip - u my friend are like a caveman and need to open your eyes and mind!! Like I said I am strongly the process of life, which is respect! Animals are not killers they are optimists, living spirits, never giving up, just because they have no voice does not make them inferior. Yes animals do respect eachother; think of grizzleys or lions, territorial, not another will step into his territory because they respect that it is the home of another. No need to be ignorant! Oh ya fyi yes I do drive a green car and yes respect greenery! Just because one says respect plants also doesn't suggest they have feelings, it's merely stating to respect what is natural yes including plants smart a.s! U talk out of your a.s, clearly u don't respect earth, all living even your own life and are missing out on what is important - the gift of LIFE! I hope u get the chance to sit back and look within yourself. Jacquie >>> You big dummy. I am superior to snails and and monkeys. >> [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > Philip - u my friend are like a caveman and need to open your eyes and > mind!! You are ill-equipped for that task. You brought a pocketknife to a gunfight. > Like I said I am strongly the process of life, which is > respect! Animals are not killers ... RUB-BISH. Repeat after me. RUB-BISH. Go on ... you can say it! snipped the simple minded BS > Oh ya fyi yes I do drive a green car and yes respect greenery! That guess was nearly a given. Prius or Honda? (Mine was not a reference to the car's color). > Just because one says respect plants also doesn't suggest they have > feelings, it's merely stating to respect what is natural yes including > plants smart a.s! That's only your rationalization so that you can eat SOMETHING! LOL > U talk out of your a.s, clearly u don't respect earth,... Then I am passing gas and articulate on your level. "Clearly" I am communicating to you. > all living even your own life and are missing out on what is > important - the gift of LIFE! I hope u get the chance to sit back > and look within yourself. > > Jacquie At my age? Life is about getting what you can while you can still chase after it so you'll have a stockpile for when you no longer can. For men, that's a big portion of daily family life. Your female mission in life is more oriented toward giving life and caring for it. Have you noticed the huge female to male ratio in the nursing profession? So with that in mind, I leave you to your viewpoint. >Yes animals do respect eachother; think of grizzleys or lions, >territorial, not another will step into his territory because they >respect that it is the home of another. Are you out of your *mind*? Male grizzlies kill any cubs they can so the sow will go into heat and they can breed her. Male grizzlies fight to the death over choice territory. Female grizzlies kill each other over prime territory. Male lions in the wild only live a fraction of their possible life span -- they sometimes reach the age of ten (out of thirty). Why do they die so young? Because they come into a pride male's territory and drive him off or kill him. Then the victorious male(s) kill every single unweaned cub in the pride in order to bring the females into estrus so they can breed them. And pride takeovers happen every two years or so. There is no 'respect' in Nature. It is survival of the strongest and fittest. Orchid See Orchid's Kitties! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Want a Purebred Cat? Read This! -- http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid 1chip-state1@earthlink.net IP # 64.203.38.114 OrgAbuseName: ABUSE TEAM OrgAbusePhone: +1-404-815-0770 OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@abuse.earthlink.net >1chip-state1@earthlink.net >IP # 64.203.38.114 > >OrgAbuseName: ABUSE TEAM >OrgAbusePhone: +1-404-815-0770 >OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@abuse.earthlink.net Why do you keep posting this?? Are you John Doe? Justin (I have been away) > >1chip-state1@earthlink.net > >IP # 64.203.38.114 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Justin (I have been away) Welcome home, Justin! Everyone has lost their minds! (In other word's, SNAFU.) :) >> >1chip-state1@earthlink.net >> >IP # 64.203.38.114 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Welcome home, Justin! Everyone has lost their minds! >(In other word's, SNAFU.) :) Hehe, thanks! Seems a 'lil strange 'round here... What's SNAFU? Was I supposed to bring a dish or something? Justin > >> >1chip-state1@earthlink.net > >> >IP # 64.203.38.114 [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > What's SNAFU? Was I supposed to bring a dish or something? Hee! It's an old army term: Situation Normal, All f.cked Up! > >> >1chip-state1@earthlink.net > >> >IP # 64.203.38.114 [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Justin if this place was a real clinic we would have lost money today With an attitude like that what on earth are you doing anyway on the pets cats group? We're animal lovers helping animals, our pets, our family members... you need to find another group. > With an attitude like that what on earth are you doing anyway on the > pets cats group? We're animal lovers helping animals, our pets, our > family members... you need to find another group. If you would include a snippet of the post to which you are referring, we could tell who you are responding to. Mary, I was referring to Philip: "Personally, once in awhile I enjoy a slab of grilled bovine connective tissue. ..... ...PETA. People Eating Tasty Animals" > Mary, I was referring to Philip: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > ...PETA. People Eating Tasty Animals" I thought you were. Phillip is a jerk! Keep on postin'! Tell us about your cats! > I have a better idea, how about we put u into a caged in zoo > environment that holds bears or lions and see how if the bear attacks [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > and u my friend u need to seek mental help!!!! If u need entertainment > from blood and war watch TV, don't breed killers! U don't deserve pets! *** I was just as indignant as you are, but sadly, not shocked. My first thought was, "Sick! Just another young male who loves and watches all the (violent + dark crap) top* ten movies, and CSI -like TV shows, and then simply 'acts out' what his mind has been filled with. Just like how movies & TV portray how he/ she is supposed* to behave in life. Or maybe, and/or, he's just acting out the 'catch and kill' plot(s) of video games that he's playing. It is a really sad and scary fact for our animals and women that a lot of kids and male adults have this kind of totally desensitized mindset about killing / death and violence. It's a *&%$@ crazy world! Lord have mercy, and please help us to be a good example. ML >> I have a better idea, how about we put u into a caged in zoo >> environment that holds bears or lions and see how if the bear attacks [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > ML Does a cat discriminate a pet store mouse from a house mouse that scurried out from under your kitchen stove? BTW, what about plants rights ... not to be eaten? ;^) I'd like to teach my two rather wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > to give them something entertaining and instructive to do. > I want them to be more like my girlfriends' cats, that cool cat [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thanks :) ***Please do *not* try to make them mean. Consider yourself lucky that you have two sweet and docile kittens. I honestly cannot believe that you would actually *want* them to kill a bunny or bird!(?). Are you, like, a guy?! You must be. Please, pleease, find a good home for them very soon! Just put an ad in the paper and/or at your vets office and specify in your ad that they are non-aggressive and gentle/passive, and I bet your phone will be ringing off the hook! You are very lucky to have such sweet, passive kittens. I really wish I could take them from you, because those traits are very desirable, and are exactly the kind of personality that I would want; docile, passive, and gentle, sweet. Perfect. I really hope that you will find a Good + safe home for them, because unfortunately, there are many, many, typical, wild-like cats with aggressive, hunter-like genes just waiting for you to adopt at your local shelter, and/or newspaper. Another cat(s) would be a *much better* match for you, and just might have the aggressive and common, cat-like trait that you are (so oddly) wanting. But. No matter how aggressive another cat is that you might find, I would Never, Ever, purposely let them kill another helpless, innocent creature..because Yes, that Is very cruel..and weird. ML NONE > I'd like to teach my two rather wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least > to give them something entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks :) >I'd like to teach my two rather wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least >to give them something entertaining and instructive to do. I wish our cats didn't hunt. I was woken up at 6.30am today by a squawking bird. In my half-asleep state I initially thought it was outside, but realised Ebony was 'playing' with it in the kitchen. By the time I got to the poor thing she had plucked most of its feathers. We killed it and threw it away. Poor thing. Sometimes cats do sickening things. Seconds later Ebony was on her back looking like a little kitten again so I had to forgive her. Cats come with hunting pre-programmed into them. It's part of what they are. A fluffy ball on a bit of string and some playtime from Mummy/Daddy will help them hone their hunting skills. SignatureMartin Jay >I'd like to teach my two rather wimpy kittens to hunt, or at least >to give them something entertaining and instructive to do. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Thanks :) Not really cruel, but it's not truly necessary to teach your cats to hunt. They know what to do and will do it given the chance. Here's an example -- before I bought this house, I lived in an apartment which was a converted farmhouse with an attached barn, in which my cats were born to their stray mother, who I also have. They've been indoors all their lives, until recently, when I built an enclosure for them to enjoy the yard in safety. The first three years of their lives, the kittens were entirely indoors. Of course, living where I did, I had a rodent problem -- chipmunks, mice, moles, you name it, would get in. The kittens learned well. Here's my cats with their playmates. And, just for jpotvin77 and that ilk, these rodents suffered **hideously** while I stood by and let nature take it's course, and the Oblivion they craved finally came........ eq Floppy with his very first kill: http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/mouse_1.jpg http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/mouse_2.jpg Robocat, the mini tiger. He's growling menacingly as I snap this: http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/mouse_3.jpg http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/mouse_4.jpg snip >> Anway, am I crazy? Cruel? More importantly, will the >> kitties benefit from this 'war game'? What kind of rodent should I [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/mouse_3.jpg > http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/mouse_4.jpg GREAT PICTURES! You're quick with a camera!! (sarcasm ON) But what about Mouse Rights and equal protection under the law? >GREAT PICTURES! You're quick with a camera!! (sarcasm ON) But what about >Mouse Rights and equal protection under the law? 64.203.38.114 has sarcasm on all the time. <SNIP> >GREAT PICTURES! You're quick with a camera!! (sarcasm ON) But what about >Mouse Rights and equal protection under the law? The mice had a perfectly equal chance to dispatch the cats during the combat. > <SNIP> > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The mice had a perfectly equal chance to dispatch the cats during the > combat. Dumb rodent ... didn't even give your cat The Finger of Final Defiance! But but but .... what about Mouse/Rodent Rights? ;^) I guess in Nature, they don't have any. Wonder if cat food companies are behind the belief that live prey must never be allowed. It's competition. LOL I saved a copy of your pictures. Mouse4 is my favorite. 1chip-state1@earthlink.net IP # 64.203.38.114 OrgAbuseName: ABUSE TEAM OrgAbusePhone: +1-404-815-0770 OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@abuse.earthlink.net Johnny ... hasn't the CNA been to your room yet to change the bedding? 1chip-state1@earthlink.net IP # 64.203.38.114 OrgAbuseName: ABUSE TEAM OrgAbusePhone: +1-404-815-0770 OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@abuse.earthlink.net <equalizer> wrote> Floppy with his very first kill: > http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/mouse_1.jpg > http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/mouse_2.jpg This looks like a vole because it has such small ears. The one my cats killed looked a lot cuter--it was a field mouse with big Mickey Mouse ears. > Robocat, the mini tiger. He's growling menacingly as I snap this: > http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/mouse_3.jpg > http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/mouse_4.jpg This is how we ate crawdads in LA. lol! Did he eat it? (I'm not for setting up the little devils, but if they come in uninvited they kind of get what they deserve.) ><equalizer> wrote> Floppy with his very first kill: >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >The one my cats killed looked a lot cuter--it was a >field mouse with big Mickey Mouse ears. All I know is that it was blind as a bat, and had "embryonic" eyes. That kill was hilarious -- I heard a commotion and went to see what was happening. Floppy was just standing there, frozen, by the kitchen cabinet. This thing just sort of walked out and walked strait into Floppy's paws. Floppy knew what to do, except he didn't actually kill it. After waiting for him to dispatch it for about 20 minutes I "karate chopped" its neck. >> Robocat, the mini tiger. He's growling menacingly as I snap this: >> http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/mouse_3.jpg [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >(I'm not for setting up the little devils, but if they come >in uninvited they kind of get what they deserve.) No, unfortunately he won't eat them, or I would breed mice and do away with commercial foods. He does his own killing, though -- after a while. A looooong while......... eq > ><equalizer> wrote> Floppy with his very first kill: > >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > All I know is that it was blind as a bat, and had "embryonic" eyes. It was definitely a pine vole. They are the only ones that dig underground and operate in tunnels. If you do any gardening, they really suck because they eat the tender new roots of your plants. There is no good way to get rid of them, except Floppy-- because poison kills animals you don't want to, trapping is gross, and the other ways (chicken wire around all plant roots) are just too cumbersome. > >> Robocat, the mini tiger. He's growling menacingly as I snap this: > >> http://web.newsguy.com/equalizer/mouse_3.jpg [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > with commercial foods. He does his own killing, though -- after a while. > A looooong while......... It is disturbing how cats torture their prey, but it reminds us that they are indeed predators. I have mice now--the cats caught the one and apparently scared it to death or maybe broke its neck. But the others are up in the high cabinets, and though I have not made the time to empty them and plug the holes. I have stopped using those cabinets--after standing on a chair to find something on the top shelf and finding an empty bag of chickpeas and a whole lot of droppings. *Shudder* I just got everything out of there that I thought they could chew through and stopped storing food in there. Until I can get around to cleaning the whole mess out. (Mice don't gross me out but the potential for disease in their dropping does.)
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