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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / June 2005I captured the Tomcat
There is a tomcat who was fighting my Cinder every time I let her into our backyard. The group consensus was to trap the tomcat and have him neutered. Here's the story to date. Read the diary. http://www.catster.com/pet_page.php?j=t&i=140147 I'm aware of the cat overpopulation problem but I still feel guilty about this. I feel really bad. If he has an owner, the owner will have 4 days to reclaim him before the neutering. All he has to do is phone the Humane Society. But somehow I feel guilty about this. I don't own the cat and I'm cutting its balls off. > There is a tomcat who was fighting my Cinder every time I let her into > our backyard. The group consensus was to trap the tomcat and have him [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the Humane Society. But somehow I feel guilty about this. I don't own > the cat and I'm cutting its balls off. Are you quitting on me?! Well, are you?! Then quit, you slimy #$^$#$# walrus-looking piece of #$$%! Get the @$^$#$%$ off of this group! Get the #@$#$%$ down off of this group! Now! Move it! I'm going to rip your balls off, so you cannot contaminate the rest of the world! I will motivate you, Private John!, if it short-dicks every cannibal on the Congo! >> There is a tomcat who was fighting my Cinder every time I let her >> into our backyard. The group consensus was to trap the tomcat and [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > will motivate you, Private John!, if it short-dicks every cannibal on > the Congo! What are you saying, Barry? >>>There is a tomcat who was fighting my Cinder every time I let her >>>into our backyard. The group consensus was to trap the tomcat and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > What are you saying, Barry? It's dialogue from Kubricks' "Full Metal Jacket", adapted by Barry. It's a joke, kinda. I bet Barry could suck a golf ball through a garden hose. :) Forget the guilt. Snip the Tom. Live life with less stress. Haha.. short-dicks every cannibal on the Congo.. haha.. quite appropriate.  Signature==================================================== Scott Davis, 45 Dunfield Av, Unit 2117 Self-Employed Toronto, ON, Canada, M4S 2H4 Tech Consultant Mobile. (416) 432-4334 The IP addrs I use to post all UseNet: 66.207.215.240/29 ==================================================== > >>>There is a tomcat who was fighting my Cinder every time I let her > >>>into our backyard. The group consensus was to trap the tomcat and [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > I bet Barry could suck a golf ball through a garden hose. :) What the hell do you mean by this? Scott? > Haha.. short-dicks every cannibal on the Congo.. haha.. quite > appropriate. Nice try Brian. Soooo, hows the lace on the underwear coming. > There is a tomcat who was fighting my Cinder every time I let her into > our backyard. The group consensus was to trap the tomcat and have him [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the Humane Society. But somehow I feel guilty about this. I don't own > the cat and I'm cutting its balls off. And I hope the owner doesn't get there before he's snipped if at all. This cat should have been neutered a long time ago. He'll be happier and safer now without his cajones. W >> There is a tomcat who was fighting my Cinder every time I let her >> into our backyard. The group consensus was to trap the tomcat and [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > W Angry women always say that ... > >> There is a tomcat who was fighting my Cinder every time I let her > >> into our backyard. The group consensus was to trap the tomcat and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Angry women always say that ... Or disgusted women. I bet you have known more of the latter. And amused women. Women who cannot stop laughing long enough for you to get your clothes back on. Back when you were much, much younger. > >> There is a tomcat who was fighting my Cinder every time I let her > >> into our backyard. The group consensus was to trap the tomcat and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Angry women always say that ... The only thing I'm angry about it the number of unwanted cats and kittens out there. >>>> There is a tomcat who was fighting my Cinder every time I let her >>>> into our backyard. The group consensus was to trap the tomcat and [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > The only thing I'm angry about it the number of unwanted cats and > kittens out there. Is that the cats' fault? Nope, it's the humans' fault for not neutering their cat earlier. Rhonda >>The only thing I'm angry about it the number of unwanted cats and >>kittens out there. > > Is that the cats' fault? > Wendy wrote: > > And I hope the owner doesn't get there before he's snipped if at all. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Angry women always say that ... I get the humor, and I'm sure many others do, too. But I'll tell ya, I live in an area where Catholicism runs deep, and there is a serious problem convincing people that the logical, humane thing to do for all is to get one's cat spayed/neutered. I am certain some of these folks also think like the original poster: That neutering a male cat is exactly the same as castrating a human. Not so. So I think people ought to be serious here. I know one, seemingly bright, 30-ish, gainfully employed young man in particular who refuses to neuter/spay his cats (more than one!), and I'm at a loss to find the right words to persuade him, his convictions run so deep. I'm at the point where I don't want to spend any time around him, because this is just so danged ignorant of him. So don't make it any tougher... Three cents. >> Wendy wrote: >>> And I hope the owner doesn't get there before he's snipped if at [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I get the humor, and I'm sure many others do, too. Thank God. ;^) > But I'll tell ya, > I live in an area where Catholicism runs deep, and there is a serious > problem convincing people that the logical, humane thing to do for > all is to get one's cat spayed/neutered. I am certain some of these > folks also think like the original poster: That neutering a male cat > is exactly the same as castrating a human. Considering the child molesting priests, the Vatican should make an exception within the ranks and also start promoting marriage for priests. ;^) > So I think people ought to be serious here. I know one, seemingly > bright, 30-ish, gainfully employed young man in particular who > refuses to neuter/spay his cats (more than one!), and I'm at a loss > to find the right words to persuade him, his convictions run so deep. > I'm at the point where I don't want to spend any time around him, > because this is just so danged ignorant of him. There is a LOT of projection that goes on with pet ownership. I know a 7th Day Adventist family who will only feed their rotweilers Avoderm meatless dog food. Both dogs have had PROBLEMS including bone cancer that took the older one. But no cardiovascular problems or doggy breath! > So don't make it any tougher... Personally, I believe pets are part of a veterinary industry experiment. What the heck is the greater good in a vaccination that results in oozing skin ulcers, liver malfunctions, short term kidney failure, lethargy, and even death? My point, don't buy every damned thing the vet offers. I also don't buy neutering the day after a kitten stops suckling. But that's what is being PUSHED by the animal sterilization industry. Maybe a few people recall the Vienna Boys Choir? Preserving prepubescent voices came at a price. But I digress. ;^/ > Personally, I believe pets are part of a veterinary industry experiment. I think without question humans are part of the health care industry experiment. But the internet's mass communication of information is helping both medical industries. > What the heck is the greater good in a vaccination that results in oozing > skin ulcers, liver malfunctions, short term kidney failure, lethargy, and > even death? My point, don't buy every damned thing the vet offers. It's getting a bit off the main point of this thread, but FWIW: Last night I took my cat with the mending broken leg to the ER. He'd just had his bandage/cast and splint removed that morning, the leg has several pressure sores, and it was puffy, bloody looking and tender to the touch. The cat seemed lethargic. By early evening I was concerned enough to take him in. Everything checked out pretty normal, but I give a thumbs up to the attending vet for making it clear that while we could have a blood panel(?) and CBC (complete blood count, checking for red and white cells) done on him to check for infection, that could probably wait. She asked me, and didn't tell me, what to do. We went home with just a few days' dose of meloxicam, to help the swelling and so pain. (The cat seems much better this morning.) > I also don't buy neutering the day after a kitten stops suckling. But > that's what is being PUSHED by the animal sterilization industry. Since there shouldn't be a financial advantage to this, I'd have to read the reasoning (hopefully based on studies) to say whether this is inappropriate. snip >> I also don't buy neutering the day after a kitten stops suckling. >> But that's what is being PUSHED by the animal sterilization industry. > > Since there shouldn't be a financial advantage to this, I'd have to > read the reasoning (hopefully based on studies) to say whether this > is inappropriate. The vetineranry industry takes its cue from human medicine and the pharmaceutical industry. Vets have a business with books that must balance just like any doctor's office. There is money in "educating" your customer base (as there also is in teaching aspiring veterinary students) that certain things are the proper, compassionate, responsible way to do things .... that also increase revenue. I've read numerous articles apologizing for "disease management" vs cures over the course of my own autoimmune experience. My point is, drug studies are mostly funded by drug companies so expect self serving spin in their reports. > Elle wrote: > snip [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > experience. My point is, drug studies are mostly funded by drug companies so > expect self serving spin in their reports. There shouldn't be any financial advantage to advocating earlier spaying. Like I said. >> Elle wrote: >> snip [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Like I said. But there is. Deal with it. Early kitten neutering is good for slowing the population growth rate if not diminishing the population and early kitten neutering is good for the industry treating urinary blockages that used to occur less often. It's a win-win at your financial expense. As for early spaying I would like to read some responsible research on long term complications from premature spaying. > >> Elle wrote: > >> snip [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >>> read the reasoning (hopefully based on studies) to say whether this > >>> is inappropriate. snip unrelated gibberish; onto the latest attempt to figure out what Phil is trying to say > > There shouldn't be any financial advantage to advocating earlier > > spaying. > > > > Like I said. > > But there is. Deal with it. What I'm done dealing with is your rationalizing. > Early kitten neutering is good for slowing the > population growth rate if not diminishing the population Which diminishes vets' income. > and early kitten > neutering is good for the industry treating urinary blockages that used to > occur less often. I can't tell whether you're saying early kitten neutering tends to increase urinary blockages or decreases them. > It's a win-win at your financial expense. I can't figure out what you mean here. I could guess, but I'm tired of trying to get some clear English from you. > As for early > spaying I would like to read some responsible research on long term > complications from premature spaying. Which would have to be weighed against the risk of late spaying. >> Early kitten neutering is good for slowing the >> population growth rate if not diminishing the population > > Which diminishes vets' income. No. These sterilized cats still get $ick, need $hots, get cancer$, eat $pecial foods, etc. Can you find me a statistic showing the national average cat population has decreased in size over the past twenty years? It like the war on drugs. >> and early kitten >> neutering is good for the industry treating urinary blockages that >> used to occur less often. > > I can't tell whether you're saying early kitten neutering tends to > increase urinary blockages or decreases them. Read the last 5 words. >> It's a win-win at your financial expense. > > I can't figure out what you mean here. I could guess, but I'm tired of > trying to get some clear English from you. Because you don't want to hear it. Vets win, drug co's win ... at your expense. That help? >> As for early >> spaying I would like to read some responsible research on long term >> complications from premature spaying. > > Which would have to be weighed against the risk of late spaying. Fair enough. Are you comfortable with performing a hysterectomy on a 2 lb kitten? "Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.n0t> wrote snip > >> Early kitten neutering is good for slowing the > >> population growth rate if not diminishing the population [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cat population has decreased in size over the past twenty years? It like > the war on drugs. Philip, try to reason through the points you are making. You're the one who says above that early neutering is good for slowing population growth rate. I presume you think that's a good thing. Then you seem to recant the point above. I don't believe you have the deductive reasoning skills to have a rational discussion. snip > Because you don't want to hear it. Vets win, drug co's win ... I have already agreed with this point, in general terms, Philip. Get back to my original query. I do not agree that everything vets do and every drug available is bad. Or don't. This is going nowhere. > "Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.n0t> wrote > snip [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > population growth rate. I presume you think that's a good thing. Then > you seem to recant the point above. Ok, here's a string of popcorn to follow. The cats you sterilize are still in existence. Sterilization is not abortion. Sterilization gets more cats into the veterinary "$ystem" and the owners need to be educated in a way that makes them feel obligated to spend money on feline maintenance, to say nothing of upselling lots of services (ie, $400 dental cleanings and $250 vaccination packages) that are not usually needed for indoor only cats or "only" cats living exclusively indoors. From the industry perspective, people need to be educated to feel guilty about resisting all this "upselling." Pet maintenance is a money maker. Work those profit centers. Customer beware. > snip >> Because you don't want to hear it. Vets win, drug co's win ... at pet [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > back to my original query. I do not agree that everything vets do and > every drug available is bad. I don't know who you are disagreeing with. You will search far and wide and never find a statement from me saying "everything vets do and every drug available is bad." That would be an inference of your own making and quite inaccurate. I am addressing some flagrant excesses I have witnessed over the years. > Can you find me a statistic showing the national average > cat population has decreased in size over the past twenty years? It like > the war on drugs. Yeah, but Bob Barker says! have your pet spayed or neutered. Now that's a defeatest attitude, that's like saying, why wipe your a.s after going to the bathroom, your just going to mess it up again or why make your bed or why delete temporary internet files yes...we should spay and neuter... I hear tell that some women on here have got the stray cat situation locked down in their neighborhoods...Take a bow ladies! That's an inumerable amount of cats that will never know what it is to be lonely... To feel the walls closing in...can I get an Amen? Can I BUY and amen.$$$ >> Can you find me a statistic showing the national average >> cat population has decreased in size over the past twenty years? It [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Now that's a defeatest attitude, that's like saying, why wipe your a.s > after going to the bathroom, your just going to mess it up again Your cat doesn't wipe is butt... ;-) > or why make your bed Ever have teenagers? > or why delete temporary internet files Done automatically. > yes...we should spay and neuter... That is not the point. IT's the timing. I'm am not convinced castration and hysterectomy is appropriate the week a kitten stops suckling its mother or weighs 1.5 to 2 pounds is always without consequence. > That is not the point. IT's the timing. I'm am not convinced castration > and hysterectomy is appropriate the week a kitten stops suckling its mother > or weighs 1.5 to 2 pounds is always without consequence. I understand. I would think at least wait a good bit after nursing, but prior to becoming potent...what age would that be roughly, just inside a year? >> That is not the point. IT's the timing. I'm am not convinced >> castration and hysterectomy is appropriate the week a kitten stops [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I would think at least wait a good bit after nursing, but prior to > becoming potent...what age would that be roughly, just inside a year? THANK YOU ... for sparing me the politically correct lecture about wee kitten castration and hysterectomy. I know the level of care my cats have always been subject to. I've owned cats for longer than several of these self righteous women have been walking this earth. I don't flatter myself with knowing it all ... which is the reason I stopped by this forum (which deserves the subtitle Catfight Corner) in the first place. I won't be preached at or browbeaten by trendy, politically correct practices nor unabashed upselling veterinary services that are an affront to my senses and experiences. I won't perform castration on a male before six months ever again and in fact, will wait for that first sign of mating drive to do a castration. Hysterectomy ... that's another matter of gauging when the female is "warming up." I pay that much attention to my pets .... I cannot speak for any other people. > I won't perform castration on a male before six months ever again and in > fact, will wait for that first sign of mating drive to do a castration. > Hysterectomy ... that's another matter of gauging when the female is > "warming up." I pay that much attention to my pets .... I cannot speak for > any other people. I'm just making this up, I may have known this before I dont know... It seems to me that certain chemicals that a body needs when it is maturing are produced in the nuts. Natural steroids, or something. Hormones.. >As for early >spaying I would like to read some responsible research on long term >complications from premature spaying. Peer reviewed citations/links please. -mhd >> As for early >> spaying I would like to read some responsible research on long term [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -mhd Not just peer reviewed. > He'll be happier and safer > now without his cajones. I think you meant "cojones" ;) a cajon is a drawer. :) lol, pam > > He'll be happier and safer > > now without his cajones. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > lol, > pam LOL!! I know men who are happier without their drawers! Like all of them. > > > He'll be happier and safer > > > now without his cajones. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > LOL!! I know men who are happier without > their drawers! Like all of them. My mind is not assimilating these days I thought it read cajoles which would just as easily fit > There is a tomcat who was fighting my Cinder every time I let her into > our backyard. The group consensus was to trap the tomcat and have him [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the Humane Society. But somehow I feel guilty about this. I don't own > the cat and I'm cutting its balls off. Oh, come on, you are smarter than that. Nobody actually owns any living thing anyway, and they allow him to roam, so they should have nothing to say about it. Plus, in the bigger picture, what's one little set of meatballs when you can save so many little cats from suffering because they were born unwanted. Not to mention the females he would impregnate. Good work, John. >But somehow I feel guilty about this. I don't own >> the cat and I'm cutting its balls off. Is it a vasectomy or castration that is performed? -mhd >>But somehow I feel guilty about this. I don't own >>> the cat and I'm cutting its balls off. > >Is it a vasectomy or castration that is performed? > >-mhd The norm is castration, I believe. I'm surprised that the question arises. Correct me if I'm wrong. > >But somehow I feel guilty about this. I don't own >>> the cat and I'm cutting its balls off. > > Is it a vasectomy or castration that is performed? > > -mhd The cat is given counseling re abstinence and responsibility. Adam >> >But somehow I feel guilty about this. I don't own >>>> the cat and I'm cutting its balls off. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >Adam Only in red states. -mhd >There is a tomcat who was fighting my Cinder every time I let her into >our backyard. The group consensus was to trap the tomcat and have him [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >the Humane Society. But somehow I feel guilty about this. I don't own >the cat and I'm cutting its balls off. It calls for a different perspective. These animals don't have the level of self-awareness people do. They act on instinct and have no control over where it takes them. Tom cats fight, and the fights cause injury and infection, so toms don't live long as ferals. Queens have a whole different set of problems to contend with. In either case, you do the animal a service by neutering or spaying. Then it is truly free to do what it enjoys most -- lounging and hunting -- without a "species tax" that causes it to expend immense sums of energy and take grave risks for an activity not presently required by the species. Think of it as a charity donation. If you give $100 to an animal group, you'll be lucky if 15% of it goes to animal care after marketing costs. By implication, that means a $100 out-of-pocket expense to care for a particular charity animal is equivalent to a $650 contribution to an organization, or perhaps $450 netted for income taxes. It's a cost-effective way to make a social contribution, which, as Donald Rumsfeld famously quipped, will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. Charlie snip > If you give $100 to an animal > group, you'll be lucky if 15% of it goes to animal care after [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Charlie I like the way you bottom lined it! :^) > There is a tomcat who was fighting my Cinder every time I let her into > our backyard. The group consensus was to trap the tomcat and have him [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the Humane Society. But somehow I feel guilty about this. I don't own > the cat and I'm cutting its balls off. You know Im just having an old army flashback don't you! I suppose I could have said... Oh, don't feel bad - > > There is a tomcat who was fighting my Cinder every time I let her into > > our backyard. The group consensus was to trap the tomcat and have him [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Oh, don't feel bad - I like you, Barry. You so crazy. :) Hello John, Human guys have a tough time having a male cat neutered, I've noticed. They seem to take it personally and humanize it. Female women don't do the same when they have female cats spayed. I've always wondered if there were some studies out there about this. Anyway, you know that spaying and neutering is the only way to control a cat population. It also cuts down on cat diseases. You're doing the right thing for that outside cat. Good luck with Tom, Rhonda > But somehow I feel guilty about this. I don't own > the cat and I'm cutting its balls off. > Hello John, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Rhonda Hello I don't know why males have a problem with this...(well I do, but not really) When I was about 11 yrs old, we would go out to my uncles pig farm They'd bring herds of male pigs over, a couple men would hold them down another would throw a thick rubber band around the testicles... and with a razor, do a 10 second castration...spray whole groin with a purple aneseptic and the turn him loose, (They'd throw the testicles to the dogs standing around) Humans have far deeper surguries done everyday, open heart and so on... I think it is wrong for anyone to project themselves into the cats mind and assume the cat is aware of his tools. He is not. He does what he does by design. > I don't know why males have a problem with this...(well I do, but not > really) That's roughly my attitude (speaking as a woman) with spaying: A hysterectomy in a cat's youth does give me the creeps... but then again not really, weighing everything. > I think it is wrong for anyone to project themselves into the cats mind > and assume the cat is aware of his tools. He is not. He does what he > does by design. This seems an astute, helpful statement. > > I don't know why males have a problem with this...(well I do, but not > > really) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > This seems an astute, helpful statement. It is indeed. snip > I think it is wrong for anyone to project themselves into the cats > mind and assume the cat is aware of his tools. He is not. He does > what he does by design. All male cats are aware of their "tools" ... otherwise, they wouldn't lick / pleasure themselves to an erection in front of your guests on the living room rug. ;^) How many jokes have wives made to their husbands about this behavior? > snip > > I think it is wrong for anyone to project themselves into the cats [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > room rug. ;^) How many jokes have wives made to their husbands about > this behavior? This is how they wash, you miserable cretin. Jesus but you creep me out. Nasty old man. > Hello John, > > Human guys have a tough time having a male cat neutered, I've > noticed. They seem to take it personally and humanize it. Female > women don't do the same when they have female cats spayed. Speak for yerself. I had deep misgivings about getting Oscar spayed, but I decided that her discomfort and yes, pain, was a lesser evil than even the slightest chance of having more unwanted kittens around. That doesn't mean that I felt great about having someone dig around in her belly to remove her ovaries and uterus. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca >> Hello John, >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >That doesn't mean that I felt great about having someone dig around in >her belly to remove her ovaries and uterus. The neutered tomcat got returned to me. I'll post a picture to the animals pictures group Okay, how's this -- "They seem to take it personally and humanize it. MOST female women don't do the same when they have female cats spayed." Actually, you are the first woman I've heard of that took it personally and humanized it, if that's what you are saying. I didn't mean that woman aren't nervous about the idea of an operation on their cats, but that they don't relate it to themselves like "oh no, she will never know the feeling of having children" kind of thing. Rhonda >>Hello John, >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > That doesn't mean that I felt great about having someone dig around in > her belly to remove her ovaries and uterus. > Okay, how's this -- "They seem to take it personally and humanize it. > MOST female women don't do the same when they have female cats spayed." [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that they don't relate it to themselves like "oh no, she will never know > the feeling of having children" kind of thing. Rhonda, what you are saying (and you are right) is that woman are not the same about their ovaries and uteri as men are about their dicks. :) We can elaborate if need be, but if I do it people will get upset. It is the way I put things. Ha! Thanks for clarifying. Sometimes I just use too many words... Rhonda >>Okay, how's this -- "They seem to take it personally and humanize it. >>MOST female women don't do the same when they have female cats spayed." [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > their dicks. :) We can elaborate if need be, but if I do it people > will get upset. It is the way I put things. > Okay, how's this -- "They seem to take it personally and humanize > it. MOST female women don't do the same when they have female cats [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > their cats, but that they don't relate it to themselves like "oh no, > she will never know the feeling of having children" kind of thing. Maybe you're right. I don't think of it in terms of "Oh no, she'll never have kittens" (maybe because I don't want kids, so I don't see that as a loss?), but I do think of it in terms of an invasive surgery that changes her hormone levels and her insides. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca I know, I always hate thinking about surgery for them -- it's a wasted day for me until I know they're okay. You probably saw Mary's response, that's what I was trying to say. I have told my sig other many times -- I will just never understand testosterone. He can't explain it to me either. Rhonda > Maybe you're right. I don't think of it in terms of "Oh no, she'll > never have kittens" (maybe because I don't want kids, so I don't see > that as a loss?), but I do think of it in terms of an invasive surgery > that changes her hormone levels and her insides. |
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