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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / May 2005Prozac instead of Elavil, more frustrations
Carey has been on Prozac since last Wednesday (Baytril too, as a "what the hell"). Switched from Elavil for inappropriate urination (Elavil had worked at 1/2 pill from August-March, and she's been on a whole pill from April-last week with minor improvement, but the ACL thing and blood in her urine). Elavil had stopped her weird yowling as well. Now that she's on Prozac, it's baaaaaaack. The urination seems to be going ok though. Maybe it's a trade off? I need to accept/deal with yowling in order to not have urine everywhere? ACK, but ok! We bought her a ramp for her counter. She walked up fine. When I saw her, she walked down fine. But now her hind legs are not functioning properly. They weren't 3 years ago, she recently had a [suspected] torn acl, and she's walking "sloped". Doesn't seem to have any pain when handled. Jumps up into her "cat bucket" (round bed) in a chair, onto my lap, etc. She's seeming content but practically dragging herself around. She wants to engage with the other cat, but he's backing off on play a bit - like "I don't want to hurt you". We'll be talking to the vet again this week of course, and sometimes she's walking semi-normally. I just am not sure what to be doing for her anymore, but trying to keep her happy and comfortable and showing her love and affection. Geez, having and loving pets gets complicated sometimes. I have a timed cat feeder that I loaned out and will get back, thinking that maybe food popping open at 4 a.m. may silence her yowling a bit, but the yolwing at other times is somewhat random. After a few days, it's starting to be background noise. Any other ideas are welcome.  SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album > Carey has been on Prozac since last Wednesday (Baytril too, as a "what > the hell"). Switched from Elavil for inappropriate urination (Elavil [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to be going ok though. Maybe it's a trade off? I need to accept/deal > with yowling in order to not have urine everywhere? ACK, but ok! Prozac does not produce noticable effects in humans until 4-6 weeks from first dose. Is there a reason you expect your cat to show results in less than a week? I don't know if it is different with cats, but think the question is valid. >Prozac does not produce noticable effects in humans until 4-6 weeks >from first dose. Is there a reason you expect your cat to show results >in less than a week? I don't know if it is different with cats, but think >the question is valid. It's not so much a question of showing results in less than a week. It's more that her vocalziation was controlled on the Elavil, and as soon as we switched, it returned. Which leads me to believe that the Prozac will not be affecting the vocalization. I may be wrong. That would be nice! If not, it's just one of her quirks that I will continue to live wit. SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album > >Prozac does not produce noticable effects in humans until 4-6 weeks > >from first dose. Is there a reason you expect your cat to show results [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > It's more that her vocalziation was controlled on the Elavil, and as > soon as we switched, it returned. I see. But you have to expect that since Prozac takes 4-6 weeks to begin working (the seratonin must pool in the brain for a while) that there will be a period of vocalization until it begins to work. >Which leads me to believe that the > Prozac will not be affecting the vocalization. I may be wrong. That > would be nice! Given that it really does take Prozac 4-6 weeks to work (I checked for cats, just did a Google search and the action seems to be the same) I think you need to wait that long to see if it will help with your mouthy critter! ;) I have a nephew on the stuff for anxiety, and I was the one who had to do the research as his mom could not be bothered. I also wanted to mention that if you decide to keep him on it, the generic is Fluoxetine and much cheaper. >If not, it's just one of her quirks that I will > continue to live wit. Well it can drive you insane, so I hope not. Yes, it definitely takes about 4 weeks for the prozac to take full effect. My cat is on prozac for his spraying problem. It has helped. I can't speak for the vocalization problem, though. S. >> >Prozac does not produce noticable effects in humans until 4-6 weeks >> >from first dose. Is there a reason you expect your cat to show results [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Well it can drive you insane, so I hope not. > Carey has been on Prozac since last Wednesday (Baytril too, as a "what > the hell"). Switched from Elavil for inappropriate urination (Elavil [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to be going ok though. Maybe it's a trade off? I need to accept/deal > with yowling in order to not have urine everywhere? ACK, but ok! [>]> Janet B > www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com > http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album Hi Janet, I'm sorry you're having such problems with Carey. She's lucky to have you as an owner. I don't have any advice but just want to mention to be cautious about using Baytril; higher doses can cause retinal degeneration. http://www.tufts.edu/vet/vet_common/pdf/petinfo/dvm/case_march2003.pdf Alison:) > I'm sorry you're having such problems with Carey. She's lucky to have >you as an owner. I don't have any advice but just want to mention to >be cautious about using Baytril; higher doses can cause retinal >degeneration. >http://www.tufts.edu/vet/vet_common/pdf/petinfo/dvm/case_march2003.pdf Thanks Alison. I knew about possible problems with Baytril, but my vet felt it was the best choice right now. Carey is such a lovely little cat, but I sure wish we had answers to her problems. It gets more confusing all the time. SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album > Carey has been on Prozac since last Wednesday (Baytril too, as a "what > the hell"). Switched from Elavil for inappropriate urination (Elavil [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to be going ok though. Maybe it's a trade off? I need to accept/deal > with yowling in order to not have urine everywhere? ACK, but ok! Ok, maybe I'm missing something. Why did they take her off Elavil and onto Prozac? Is there any reason she can't be on Elavil? Also have they x-rayed her legs/hindquarters to rule out other things besides ACL? The reason I ask is because my old dog was diagnosed with a sprained knee, when in fact, she had a tumor growing underneath her spine that was affecting the nerves into her leg. I eventually took her to a different vet and by the time she was properly diagnosed, it was too late to operate on the tumor. So I would seek a second opinion if the treatment she has received isn't working. Thanks for any clarification, -L. >> Carey has been on Prozac since last Wednesday (Baytril too, as a > "what [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Thanks for any clarification, > -L. Using Prozac on a cat. Fer Gawdsake! Maybe Ritalin on weekends? Gad ... how did cats and owners survive centuries of cohabitation without drugging the cat? Good Freekin' Grief. "Philip" > Using Prozac on a cat. Fer Gawdsake! Maybe Ritalin on weekends? Gad ... > how did cats and owners survive centuries of cohabitation without drugging > the cat? Good Freekin' Grief. I think it's ok, it's not like we dealing in perfection. Sooo many factors. It's like there are retarded people for various reasons, so makes me wonder if there are any retarded cats, see.., and I agree with you, on the surface yes, people should not be so quick to chill a cat out (thier missing all the fun)... I think the key is; realizing that we are not dealing with perfection. If we were dealing with perfection, I would say...do no sorcery, but this is not the case. I wonder if some of this outlandish behavoir is from retardation. LOGISTICS Even nature does not allow mothers and sons to breed, in animals or people, it just strikes the consCience oddly - - well I'm sure in animals, there are mothers and sons who have either accidently or through neccesity have inbred. You got 2nd generation grandkids cutting the grandma, then you have merchandise (kitten) who is defective from the factory. (if not from the first gen, then by the 3rd or 4th, then the nuts don't fall far from the tree...thus "Physco Kitty". Then you got phycos cutting phycos...wow Sooo, we try to offset that kittens im-balance or directly affect the ill-behavior... through drugs. -- Barry ... Women and cats are both black at night. - Bosnia ... > Using Prozac on a cat. Fer Gawdsake! Maybe Ritalin on weekends? Gad ... > how did cats and owners survive centuries of cohabitation without drugging > the cat? Good Freekin' Grief. Now now, Phillip, get with the program. It is 2005 ya know. If such drugs were available in the 50's they would have been used. Now we have the luxury of psychotropic drugs. There's no reason they shouldn't be applied in vet medicine. In fact, it is sometimes difficult to get a vet to prescribe such drugs for animals, for the reason you voiced. Some vets don't "get it" either. For example, in her last days, my dog seemed confused at night, sometimes. Part of it was old age, part of it was side effects of pain management. Had she lasted much longer, I would have insisted she be prescribed something to help her with it. But as it was, she needed euthanization before it got that bad. I would have had no problem giving her Clomicalm or Valium to keep her comfy at night. There's no reason people shouldn't take advantage of all of the drugs in the pharmacopia for their pets. Pets should be kept as comfortable as possible, just as humans are. -L. >> Using Prozac on a cat. Fer Gawdsake! Maybe Ritalin on weekends? > Gad ... [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Now we have the luxury of psychotropic drugs. There's no reason they > shouldn't be applied in vet medicine. Absolute INDUSTRY RUBBISH. May I suggest you study the long term findings of Ritalin use, not to mention Prozac, and a few other over prescibed mind altering drugs on adult humans who have been on these powerful drugs from adolesence. It's a sore subject with me, Lyn. A real sore subject that points directly to abusive parenting. > In fact, it is sometimes difficult to get a vet to prescribe such > drugs for animals, for the reason you voiced. Some vets don't "get > it" either. As they should NOT ... "get it." But you appear to have sucked up not only the hook/line/sinker, but also the fishing pole and the person holding it. snip > There's no reason people shouldn't take advantage of all of the drugs > in the pharmacopia for their pets. Pets should be kept as comfortable > as possible, just as humans are. > > -L. On this matter Lyn, you're part of the bigger problem. Using your "reasoning", husbands of middle aged menopausal women should drug the wife sufficient to dampen her mood swings so that the rest of the family is "comfortable." Just mask the symptoms. > Absolute INDUSTRY RUBBISH. May I suggest you study the long term findings > of Ritalin use, not to mention Prozac, and a few other over prescibed mind > altering drugs on adult humans who have been on these powerful drugs from > adolesence. It's a sore subject with me, Lyn. A real sore subject that > points directly to abusive parenting. I don't advocate the use of psychotropic drugs in children unless all other methods of behavior modification have failed. I totally believe that a large portion of ill-behaved children are that way because of parental rearing - or lack there of. But that's completely different than behavior modification in cats. Please stay on the subject if you plan to debate this with me. > > In fact, it is sometimes difficult to get a vet to prescribe such > > drugs for animals, for the reason you voiced. Some vets don't "get > > it" either. > > As they should NOT ... "get it." But you appear to have sucked up not only > the hook/line/sinker, but also the fishing pole and the person holding it. The reason being that I have seen cats who have been helped tremendously by psychotropic drugs. I have also seen cats euthanized because their "owners" felt the same way you do. It's a shame. > On this matter Lyn, you're part of the bigger problem. Using your > "reasoning", husbands of middle aged menopausal women should drug the wife > sufficient to dampen her mood swings so that the rest of the family is > "comfortable." Just mask the symptoms. Psychotropic drugs help to balance imbalances in brain chemistry. You wouldn't leave insulin levels (diabetes) unchecked, so why is it ok to leave seratonin levels unchecked? It just doesn't make any sense from a medical point of view, not to treat people (or animals) who have true disorders with drugs that can help them. That doesn't mean you give it out to any person whom seeks it, however, and concurrent therapeutic counseling should be mandatory, IMO, for humans. -L. >> Absolute INDUSTRY RUBBISH. May I suggest you study the long term >> findings of Ritalin use, not to mention Prozac, and a few other over [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > than behavior modification in cats. Please stay on the subject if you > plan to debate this with me. On this topic, I do not wish to debate with you. Your position is very wrong headed and emblematic of our quick fix drug oriented culture. >> As they should NOT ... "get it." But you appear to have sucked up >> not only the hook/line/sinker, but also the fishing pole and the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > tremendously by psychotropic drugs. I have also seen cats euthanized > because their "owners" felt the same way you do. It's a shame. It's always the -short term- excuse for using behavior modifying drugs. The long term affect on people has been a tradgedy. >> On this matter Lyn, you're part of the bigger problem. Using your >> "reasoning", husbands of middle aged menopausal women should drug [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > wouldn't leave insulin levels (diabetes) unchecked, so why is it ok to > leave seratonin levels unchecked? Because the long term fallout of brain drugging is only lately coming to light. > It just doesn't make any sense from a medical point of view, not to treat > people (or animals) who have true disorders with drugs that can help them. As one who has been through numerous autoimmune suppression therapies, let me tell you personally that disease modifying drugs often create new problems that are as bad, more diverse, or worse than the underlying disease. > That doesn't mean you give it out to any person whom seeks it, however, > and concurrent therapeutic counseling should be mandatory, IMO, for > humans. > > -L. You have a cat counseling service? LOL I mean ... where you counsel the cat, not the owner? Do you chortle, meow, trill, spit, etc fluently? Who lays out on the overstuffed couch? But seriously, what diagnostics do you have at hand to justify psychotropic drug therapy on a cat? Cats don't have mental problems .... they have owners. "Philip" > But seriously, what diagnostics do you have at hand to justify psychotropic > drug therapy on a cat? Cats don't have mental problems .... they have > owners. I agree with you somewhat, where people are quick to go get a "fix-it" pill Pharmecuticals are a multi billion dollar industry, and if the makers can get animals involved then hallelujah pass the prozac, I realize this, it's a free for all. Many so called behavior problems are not problems at all, but like you say, cats have owners!; but If I were to say cats do not have mental problems, I would not be correct. Some cats do have mental problems, not that I have ever met one, but if they live under the same sun as I do, then I know if not just by osmosis, cats have mental problems. The real problem with drugging cats, is, first of all, they're already peculiar little animals, secondly, which was your point, we do live in a quick fix, push button society. I think when it comes to psychotropic drugs this is one thing, but I am leary of any pill that would trick the heart and endocrine system into thinking, "relax" everything is fine; like a cat vallium. nothing is free, this is a trade off. You drug-chill a cat too long then that cats natural strengths are diminished. As an anology, it's like assisted breathing, where the lungs become dependent on the breathing machine; I say there is no difference with chill drugs, no matter how that pill chills..when the end result is a slower heart rate, the heart works less, and becomes addicted to effect; not to mention side effects. I believe money is behind much of this, and so called learned men, they spend alot of time studying for the very chore of drugging, and just like some doctors they are quick to prescribe something. I knew a man who had no less than 15-16 different bottles of pills he had to visit each morning, they were all spread out on the table. He started on one drug which caused a side effect, then he got a pill to deal with that side effect, and so on...he got snowballed. ...back to cats...I think of a child who is always hushed from crying...never allowed to cry, this is not good, this is how they develop thier lungs. Just because we do not like something does not warrant a drug, or even a fix. > "Philip" >> But seriously, what diagnostics do you have at hand to justify [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > develop thier lungs. Just because we do not like something does not > warrant a drug, or even a fix. Thank you Barry. You and I are on the same page. As my own illness progresses, I've come to appreciate the degree of "symptom management" present in Western Medicine ... and I find this very distressing. Now you lurking readers of the medical persuasion can just put away that knee jerk impulse to blurt out something defensive and diametetrically opposed. Just because a substance is available does NOT mean it is appropriate to use it. And there is AMPLE discussion on this forum quite recently regarding vaccines and dosing ... overdosing causing horrendous skin ulcers! > I knew a man who had no > less than 15-16 different bottles of pills he had to visit each morning, > they were all spread out on the table. He started on one drug which caused a > side effect, then he got a pill to deal with that side effect, and so > on...he got snowballed. This is becoming more and more common :( What's sad too is many people cannot even afford these drugs but will got without in other areas to pay for them while the drug industry just keeps getting richer. > ...back to cats...I think of a child who is always hushed from > crying...never allowed to cry, this is not good, this is how they develop > thier lungs. Just because we do not like something does not warrant a drug, > or even a fix. I agree. I think too many vets are quick to medicate without really finding out what is the root of the problem, or not considering what the cost will be to the cat's health by prescribing the drugs, and not always looking for alternatives. > > I knew a man who had no > > less than 15-16 different bottles of pills he had to visit each morning, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > the cost will be to the cat's health by prescribing the drugs, and not > always looking for alternatives. I cannot imagine drugging my cats with psychotropics. >I cannot imagine drugging my cats with psychotropics. and may you never have reason to have to consider doing so. I suppose I could put her in a cage 24/7, but that just doesn't seem like much of a life. What are YOUR solutions for inappropriate urination issues? SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album > >I cannot imagine drugging my cats with psychotropics. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What are YOUR solutions for inappropriate urination issues? Easy there, Janet. My statement was not issued as any sort of judgment on you. There are many things that can be tried for inappropriate elimination, most of which have probably been mentioned in this thread. I don't know which you have tried. >> I cannot imagine drugging my cats with psychotropics. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What are YOUR solutions for inappropriate urination issues? Diapers? Put the varmint on a leash that limits it travels to a tiled floor room? Eventually the only clean place to pee will be the litter box that you keep immaculately clean. Immediate physical relocation the second your cat assumes the pissing position .... plop in the litter box. Alternate location is under a stream of running water. It has to be made clear to the cat that there is only one place in the house that she/he can piss without reprisal. Cats need to be "told" at least FOUR times before they get the message. When correcting a bad behavior, you need treat cats as though they are STUPID. >Diapers? Put the varmint on a leash that limits it travels to a tiled floor >room? Eventually the only clean place to pee will be the litter box that [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >message. When correcting a bad behavior, you need treat cats as though they >are STUPID. Well, aren't you kind and helpful! I'll expect you on my doorstep, following her around 24/7/365! SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album >> (sarcasm alert ON) Diapers? Put the varmint on a leash that limits >> it travels to a tiled floor room? Eventually the only clean place to pee [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Well, aren't you kind and helpful! I'll expect you on my doorstep, > following her around 24/7/365! Oops ... forgot to punctuate with a couple of emoticons again. Please re-read the above with the intended punctuations. Limiting the travels of that misbehaving furry piss bag is Job One. The animal needs to make a negative association with peeing anywhere but in the box or .... if you prefer .... urinating IN the box gets a pleasureable measure from you. Remember ... treat cats as though they are STUPID when it comes to changing instinctive behaviors and undesireable behaviors. Disclaimer: take this tack after you're sure there is no underlying physcial condition (pussy mental stress is not a medical condition). > "Philip" > > But seriously, what diagnostics do you have at hand to justify [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > thier lungs. Just because we do not like something does not warrant a drug, > or even a fix. This, Barry, is a kick-a.s post. Right on all counts! I guess that means I agree with you! ;) >...back to cats...I think of a child who is always hushed from >crying...never allowed to cry, this is not good, this is how they develop >thier lungs. Just because we do not like something does not warrant a drug, >or even a fix. And how does this relate to a cat with inappropriate urination issues (the reason these drugs are being used)? SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album > >...back to cats...I think of a child who is always hushed from > >crying...never allowed to cry, this is not good, this is how they develop [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > And how does this relate to a cat with inappropriate urination issues > (the reason these drugs are being used)? We sometimes segue to other, related topics. >> ...back to cats...I think of a child who is always hushed from >> crying...never allowed to cry, this is not good, this is how they [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > And how does this relate to a cat with inappropriate urination issues > (the reason these drugs are being used)? Ummmmm..... if you instill the fear of God in the cat so that little bugger will hold it until he gets to the box, his bladder control will get better developed? Don't need drugs to accomplish this feat. Personally, I like interrupting inappropriate urination in progress with physical relocation. >Ummmmm..... if you instill the fear of God in the cat so that little bugger >will hold it until he gets to the box, his bladder control will get better >developed? Don't need drugs to accomplish this feat. Personally, I like >interrupting inappropriate urination in progress with physical relocation. Oh yeah - fear of god - that's GREAAAAAt solution. What are you doing on a cat NG? SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album >> Ummmmm..... if you instill the fear of God in the cat so that little >> bugger will hold it until he gets to the box, his bladder control [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Oh yeah - fear of god - that's GREAAAAAt solution. What are you > doing on a cat NG? What are you doing in a cat NG when you should be in a psychotropic drug study group for yourself? Instead you are experimenting on a small animal. BTW, you are the food god to a cat. Extend your powers. ;^) > Because the long term fallout of brain drugging is only lately coming to > light. Gads, I hate it when I have to agree with Philip! ;> But just like antibiotics are being overly used, so are psychotropic drugs. And I am forced to agree (kicking and screaming) that modern society has developed a "quick-fix" mind set to almost all problems when some problems need time and effort to cure. > > Because the long term fallout of brain drugging is only lately coming to > > light. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "quick-fix" mind set to almost all problems when some problems need time and > effort to cure. Yes indeed. It is one thing when a state of mind/mood such as depression or anxiety is really endangering someone; it is another when life is just doing what life does: shaking it up for us, throwing us curves. I do believe that there are people who benefit greatly from the SSRIs--but they are overdiagnosed. And all but Prozac/fluoxetine causes weight gain--this in a society fat in epidemic numbers. >"quick-fix" mind set to almost all problems when some problems need time and >effort to cure. And I'll ask you the same thing I asked Mary - what is your cure for inappropriate urination issues? Thanks so much for a fast answer! SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album >>"quick-fix" mind set to almost all problems when some problems need time >>and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks so much for a fast answer! Janet, I wasn't taking pot shots at you. As with antibiotics, I'm not saying they should never be used, I'm just saying that they're being used too much now-a-days. If all else has failed and these work, then that's fine. I just don't think they should be the first thing tried (or the second, or the third). It's just getting so that as soon as anyone goes to a doctor or vet with some minor complaint the doctor or vet (having been "programmed" and set up by the large pharmeceutical companies as their front man) grabs his perscription pad and doles out psychotropic drugs like handing out candy in a kindergarten. I have friends in the medical profession and you would not *believe* some of the things pharmeceutical salesmen will do to sell their "products" - giving doctors everything from free lunches to trips to Hawaii when doctors reach a certain number of "sales" to their patients. All I'm doing is trying to put out a word of caution to make people take a step back and consider *all* the alternatives before reaching for a quick, easy fix to a complicated problem. As to the inappropriate urination issues, that's been posted about many, many times here and there has been tons of good advice given (none of it easy to accomplish) and, I believe, psychotropic medications were advised as a last resort only after everything else fails. Hugs, CatNipped > Janet, I wasn't taking pot shots at you. As with antibiotics, I'm not > saying they should never be used, I'm just saying that they're being used [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > CatNipped Piggybacking on my own post, but some further information regarding doctors and pharmeceutical companies - the current drug "pushers"... I know several other people in the medical profession, and I have heard some personal accounts of drug company representatives doing the following: - Giving "luncheons" for a "Continuing Education Programs" on certain drugs to doctors (even the nurses and techs are invited) at the most expensive restaurants. - Giving out other gifts to doctors just for allowing them to leave samples of their drugs. - Giving physicians free trips and monetary "incentives" for giving out a certain "quota" of prescriptions to their drugs. - Asking doctors to prescribe a drug and then fill out a nominal questionnaire once a week for a few weeks and then giving them as much as $10,000 for doing so. - Lobbying congress and spending huge amounts of their billion dollar profits on passing legislation that promotes their "cause". - Writing PDRs (physician's desk reference) (these are put out by the pharmaceutical companies, not by the AMA) to "slant" information about what drugs should be prescribed for which symptoms. - Working hand-in-glove with the FDA and basically policing themselves when in comes to warning labels and such. This last one is harder to prove, but the proof can be self evident when we look at the recent problems that have surfaced with Vioxx and other pain medications as well as some physchtropic drugs like Effexor. One of my friends, a nurse, works in a psychiatric hospital. The doctor she works with noticed that the children he was treating with Risidol (or maybe it was Celexor (SP?) - I can't remember which one she told me about) were showing prolonged QT waves on their EKGs and repeatedly reported this to the drug company. The drug company kept denying it for over a year until the preponderance of this evidence became overwhelming and doctors petitioned the FDA to require "black box" warnings on this drug. Taking all of the above into account, it will be a cold day in hell before I blithely allow a doctor or vet to prescribe *any* medications to me or my cats that I don't *thoroughly* investigate before using. Hugs, CatNipped > >"quick-fix" mind set to almost all problems when some problems need time and > >effort to cure. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Thanks so much for a fast answer! While you are being so damned thin-skinned, tell us what you tried before you drugged your cat? >While you are being so damned thin-skinned, tell us what you tried before >you drugged your cat? Thin-skinned? Because a few people made holier-than-thou statements of *I* would never use such a thing? That ain't thin-skinned - that's being criticized directly. I can't even go into all of the issues this cat has. Some have existed since the day I brought her home at 8 weeks old, some have exsited for the past 3 years. She uses her box. But she also uses other places. Really varied places, so it's not like I can block certain things. We've tried Feliway, we've tried every cat litter in creation (once again, she does not avoid the box), we've used citrus spray and other deterrents. She's been on various meds for symptoms such as unexplained paralysis, blood in her urine, bizarre reactivity to noise, etc. In general, she's a very happy little cat. She's always been vocal, and most often, it was in a slightly annoying, but sweet way. She gets along extremely well with the other cat, and did with the cat before him. She adores the dogs. A little too much at times, with her OCD behavior of sucking on them. She's lived with many different dogs and never felt threatened by any of them, and has liked all of them. She enjoys company (guests) and is very affectionate, although not a lap cat. She eats extremely well, yet weighs only 7#, down from her highest of ~9.5#, but up from her lowest. SO, you're diagnosis is? SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album > >While you are being so damned thin-skinned, tell us what you tried before > >you drugged your cat? > > Thin-skinned? Because a few people made holier-than-thou statements > of *I* would never use such a thing? That ain't thin-skinned - that's > being criticized directly. No, it isn't. You may have started the thread, but it moved on into a general discussion of using psychotropic drugs on cats. When I said I could not imagine using them, I meant it. Does that mean I would never? Of course not. > I can't even go into all of the issues this cat has. Some have > existed since the day I brought her home at 8 weeks old, some have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > She's been on various meds for symptoms such as unexplained paralysis, > blood in her urine, bizarre reactivity to noise, etc. Have you confined her to a pleasant room with her box and toys, food and water? This is the one tactic that has worked for me when my cats peed on rugs or in other places they were not supposed to. My Buddha uses her bladder to express her unhappiness. (Yes, folks, she does, as I have taken her to the vet after each episode and it was NOT a UTI.) I show her the spot, then place her in the utility room, which is a pleasant place with a big screened in door she can look out of. I leave her there all day, visiting her and playing with her with the laser pointer, etc. At the end of the day when it is dinner time she gets to come out, but at bed time she goes back in. I left her in there for two days this way each time and it was months or more until she peed inappropriately again--it was the next time we "pissed her off," to be exact. Confining works because they are creatures of habit. It is hard to do--and you would probably have to do it for longer with a cat for whom this is ingrained behavior. > In general, she's a very happy little cat. She's always been vocal, > and most often, it was in a slightly annoying, but sweet way. She [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > SO, you're diagnosis is? Confine her next time you find a spot. When you find it, prepare the room for her, with food, drink, box, and toys. Pick her up and show her the spot, let her sniff it, and take her to the room. Leave here there all day, let her out for a little while, put her back at night. Visit her and be sweet when you do. Once she is back in the habit of going in the box, it will be hard to break. At the same time you should use feliway around where she has peed in the past, and put unpleasant things like double-sticky tape down in favorite peeing spots. I think I might even go so far as to keep some coffee cans of coins or marbles around the favored spots and when she approaches or you catch her sniffing or looking like she is going to squat, give the cans a rattle. >Have you confined her to a pleasant room with her box and toys, >food and water? This is the one tactic that has worked for me when >my cats peed on rugs or in other places they were not supposed to. She has peed on the floor, the dryer, in a bowl. There is not "safe room". >Confine her next time you find a spot. When you find it, prepare the >room for her, with food, drink, box, and toys. Pick her up and show her [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >hard >to break Glad you're not giving advice in general. She's been confined to her favotire room, another room, etc. She uses the box. She also uses other places. >At the same time you should use feliway around where she has peed >in the past, and put unpleasant things like double-sticky tape down in >favorite >peeing spots. There aren't really any "favorite" spots. My house has been flooded with Feliway. > I think I might even go so far as to keep some coffee cans of >coins or marbles around the favored spots and when she approaches or >you catch her sniffing or looking like she is going to squat, give the cans >a rattle. Sniffing? looking around? wow - you can come join Phillip 24/7/365! SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album snipped Mary's fecal contributions > She has peed on the floor, the dryer, in a bowl. There is not "safe > room". [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Sniffing? looking around? wow - you can come join Phillip 24/7/365! You're past the point where I would have introduced your flea bitten neurotic piss bag to the Great Outdoors. Some behaviors have no adequate solution. You don't have to live like this, Janet. Look at YOUR home. One neurotic feline has not only turned it into a toilet, you have also done as bad or worse with measures to cover it up. You and the cat are in a pissing contest! Don't tell me your family or guests haven't noticed. Start living like a dignified human being. Be compassionate to your human kind. > snipped Mary's fecal contributions Nobody is interested in your sexual proclivities you nasty old man. > >Have you confined her to a pleasant room with her box and toys, > >food and water? This is the one tactic that has worked for me when > >my cats peed on rugs or in other places they were not supposed to. > > She has peed on the floor, the dryer, in a bowl. There is not "safe > room". If you confine her to a small room with easy-to-clean floors, she will go in her box rather than have to sleep in her own waste or eliminate in or near her food. So the answer is, you have not tried confining her, though it works for many people? > >Confine her next time you find a spot. When you find it, prepare the > >room for her, with food, drink, box, and toys. Pick her up and show her [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > favotire room, another room, etc. She uses the box. She also uses > other places. Do you have a utility room? A small room without carpets, a room that is easy to clean and just big enough for her box, food, a place to sleep and some toys? If you confine her in a room like this (some use a bathroom) for long enough you will retrain her to use her box. > >At the same time you should use feliway around where she has peed > >in the past, and put unpleasant things like double-sticky tape down in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Sniffing? looking around? wow - you can come join Phillip 24/7/365! I understand that you are frustrated. I gave you very specific advice that has worked for lots of people, including me. You say you have confined her. For how long and where? In a room with lots of things you do not want her to pee on? Do it the right way. A barish room, a bathroom or a utility room. No carpet. If you have not done this, and have not confined her for a respectable length of time (a week, say) then you have not done everything you can before drugging her. >If you confine her to a small room with easy-to-clean floors, >she will go in her box rather than have to sleep in her own >waste or eliminate in or near her food. Just how small a room do you think exists? She's 7# for goodness sake - everything is big! And aren't you the one who said "a pleasant room"? >So the answer is, you have not tried confining her, though >it works for many people? I have confined her, as I said in another post. She has been confined to the guest room on many occasions. That doesn't mean she has only used her box. It is not a large room, but as I said, in relation to her size, anything larger than a cat carrier is large. >Do you have a utility room? Yes. My laundry room is where they eat and where 2 litter boxes are. It is 12' x 16' >A small room without carpets, we have no carpets in the entire house. > a room >that is easy to clean and just big enough for her box, food, a place to >sleep and some toys? I don't have a room that small. Who does? > If you confine her in a room like this (some use >a bathroom) for long enough you will retrain her to use her box. My bathrooms are in use. >I understand that you are frustrated. I gave you very specific advice that >has worked for lots of people, including me. You say you have confined her. >For how long and where? In a room with lots of things you do not want >her to pee on? You don't know squat about her. She was confined to a room for 3 weeks initially. I don't have empty rooms. How many people DO? And floors kinda exist everywhere. > Do it the right way. A barish room, a bathroom or a >utility room. No carpet. Let me repeat - carpet is NOT the problem, and no carpet exists in my house. My utility room is large. My rooms have furniture. I use my bathrooms. >If you have not done this, and have not confined >her for a respectable length of time (a week, say) then you have not done >everything you can before drugging her. See above. 3 weeks should be sufficient, no? Your anti-drug rant has no basis. SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album > >If you confine her to a small room with easy-to-clean floors, > >she will go in her box rather than have to sleep in her own [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > - everything is big! And aren't you the one who said "a pleasant > room"? Small rooms like my utility room can be very pleasant. > >So the answer is, you have not tried confining her, though > >it works for many people? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > used her box. It is not a large room, but as I said, in relation to > her size, anything larger than a cat carrier is large. A guest room, with a bed you do not want peed upon, is NOT a good example of an isolation room, Janet. > >Do you have a utility room? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I don't have a room that small. Who does? Are you being a rank literalist here, Janet? Hmmm? > > If you confine her in a room like this (some use > >a bathroom) for long enough you will retrain her to use her box. [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > See above. 3 weeks should be sufficient, no? Your anti-drug rant has > no basis. The idea of confinement is to put her in a room with nothing you do not mind her peeing on. The smaller the better. All this has been about is your own guilt. You most certainly have not tried your best to re-train her. I should have known that by your initial defensiveness. I am not anti-drug at all. You are just overwrought by the fact that you did the wrong thing by this cat years ago by not retraining her, and now the damned Elavil is not working and the Prozac, if it works, will take several more weeks to begin working. You are full of sh.t, Janet. >A guest room, with a bed you do not want peed upon, is >NOT a good example of an isolation room, Janet. She's never peed on the bed in there. She's peed on the floor, a shelf leaning on the floor and in her water bowl. >Are you being a rank literalist here, Janet? Hmmm? I'm telling you that a room as small as you describe, doesn't exist. >The idea of confinement is to put her in a room with nothing >you do not mind her peeing on. The smaller the better. The FLOOR exists everywhere. She has not peed on the bed or the chair in that room. >All this has been about is your own guilt. You most certainly have >not tried your best to re-train her. I should have known that by [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >You are full of sh.t, Janet. Years ago? Retraining her? She lost use of her hindquarters 3 years ago. She recovered from that. The urination issues started last spring (i.e., about a year ago) and got progressively worse. We tried many things and finally went to Elavil in August. Guilt? About spending thousands of dollars on her and trying everything in creation? Hardly. SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album > >A guest room, with a bed you do not want peed upon, is > >NOT a good example of an isolation room, Janet. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > The FLOOR exists everywhere. She has not peed on the bed or the chair > in that room. So it is too much trouble to clean the floor until she gets retrained to use her box? > >All this has been about is your own guilt. You most certainly have > >not tried your best to re-train her. I should have known that by [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > spending thousands of dollars on her and trying everything in > creation? Hardly. Well, then, my next question is, why do you WANT drugs to be the only answer? What if they don't work? Your belligerance here is unfounded. I am not anti-drug--and saying that I could not imagine drugging my cats is not the same as saying I would never do it. I was honestly trying to help you, as I can tell you love this cat. You misinterpreted me from the first post. My assessment of this situation is that you say you tried everything, but you gave confinement a half-hearted try at best. You just wanted the quickest way to get to the point where you are not cleaning up urine every day. I can't blame you for that, but FFS be honest about it. >So it is too much trouble to clean the floor until she gets retrained >to use her box? Where did I say it was? Of course I've cleaned the floor. >Well, then, my next question is, why do you WANT drugs to be the only >answer? Why on earth do you think that? Are you taking drugs yourself? >What if they don't work? We'll keep trying. > Your belligerance here is unfounded. >I am not anti-drug--and saying that I could not imagine drugging my cats >is not the same as saying I would never do it. I was honestly trying to >help you, as I can tell you love this cat. You misinterpreted me from the >first post. Uh-huh. I adore this cat. I will do anything for her, and have. Actually, not true. I have not caged her. Her social interaction with the household members is an important part of her life, in order to have a life. >My assessment of this situation is that you say you tried everything, but >you gave confinement a half-hearted try at best. You just wanted the >quickest way to get to the point where you are not cleaning up urine >every day. I can't blame you for that, but FFS be honest about it. 3 weeks is hardly half-hearted. Quick? Not quite - we've been battling this for quite some time. SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album > >So it is too much trouble to clean the floor until she gets retrained > >to use her box? [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > with the household members is an important part of her life, in order > to have a life. THIS is where you are going wrong. To retrain her you have to be tough for a while. It is not easy! But it is necessary. She is not having the kind of life she should while she is peeing everywhere. It is your loving heart that is keeping you from confining her long enough to be effective. Sure, use drugs. But if they do not work, I truly believe confinement will. I have friends with cats that had chronic problems with this, and one spent two months in the bathroom. Cruel? Maybe in the short term, but she has not peed inappropriately in nearly three years. snip >> You are full of sh.t, Janet. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > spending thousands of dollars on her and trying everything in > creation? Hardly. The cat has overstayed its welcome and you've wasted a lot of money that should have been spent on your family. Enough already. Cat goes in the BBQ. Cook until vanished. >The cat has overstayed its welcome and you've wasted a lot of money that >should have been spent on your family. Enough already. Cat goes in the >BBQ. Cook until vanished. See ya - welcome to my killfile. SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album >> The cat has overstayed its welcome and you've wasted a lot of money >> that should have been spent on your family. Enough already. Cat >> goes in the BBQ. Cook until vanished. > > See ya - welcome to my killfile. Janet ... what example are you setting for your kids by putting up with this furry piss bag cat? You've done everything short of catheterization. Oh look! CAT-heterization! LOL There's your next solution! > >> The cat has overstayed its welcome and you've wasted a lot of money > >> that should have been spent on your family. Enough already. Cat [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Janet ... what example are you setting for your kids by putting up with this > furry piss bag cat? An example you could never set for yours--dedicated, bighearted, generous love. That you do not just abandon a loved one because they are inconvenient. I hope your kids dump you when you start peeing yourself. Or has that already happened? You've done everything short of catheterization. Oh > look! CAT-heterization! LOL There's your next solution! >An example you could never set for yours--dedicated, bighearted, >generous love. That you do not just abandon a loved one because they >are inconvenient. I hope your kids dump you when you start peeing yourself. >Or has that already happened? Since I KF'd Phillip, I hadn't seen this. But thank you Mary. I am dedicated to her. I've been told by many people that they wouldn't be doing all of this. Only they have no reasonable alternatives of course, so it's easy for them to say! Abandonment is not an option. SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album > >An example you could never set for yours--dedicated, bighearted, > >generous love. That you do not just abandon a loved one because they [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > doing all of this. Only they have no reasonable alternatives of > course, so it's easy for them to say! Abandonment is not an option. Janet--I can tell how much you love her. And, though I love a good debate, I honestly was never blasting you for resorting to drugs. I would indeed use them on my cats if I needed to. The rest of the discussion was just that--a debate. (Although, when I get frustrated I do get nasty--sorry.) Because you are so dedicated to her, just please consider, if the prozac does not work, giving confinement another shot. They really are creatures of habit, and I really do think she would rather not live in a room with pee on the floor and so would eventually quit it. I wish you the best. It is very hard when the choice is, keep your beloved and live with filth, or abandon your beloved. >The rest of the discussion was >just that--a debate. (Although, when I get frustrated I do get >nasty--sorry.) >Because you are so dedicated to her, just please consider, if the prozac >does not work, giving confinement another shot. Thanks for that. I surely will, but honestly, to make any real difference, I can't imagine anything but a cage environment. I mean, she won't have to live with urine on the floor, because I'd be cleaning it quickly! You've never imagined how bizarre this is, until you've seen that a cat has urinated in a 4" diameter bowl. That takes talent! SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album > >The rest of the discussion was > >just that--a debate. (Although, when I get frustrated I do get [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > you've seen that a cat has urinated in a 4" diameter bowl. That takes > talent! And dedication. LOL! I was amazed that Buddha could pee in the groove of the Turbo-scratcher without getting any on the hardwoods under it. But I am grateful for her aim. Good luck and keep us posted. snip > I am dedicated to her. I've been told by many people that they wouldn't > be > doing all of this. So there *are* "many" sane people in your circle of friends. Good. Listen to them. You are too close to the problem to render good judgement. > Only they have no reasonable alternatives of course, so it's easy for > them to say! "Reasonable alternatives" in the ears of an irrational person would sound unacceptable. > Abandonment is not an option. Clearly you have an unhealthy attachment to this animal. The secondary gains you derive should be examined. >> While you are being so damned thin-skinned, tell us what you tried >> before you drugged your cat? [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > SO, you're diagnosis is? Janet ... what's your limit? Your line in the sand regarding inappropriate whizzing. Do people come to visit you anymore? Are people uneasy about sitting on any of your furniture? Does your house wreak of deodorizers in attempt to cover up the smell of cat pee? How about damage to wood items in your house? Carpets? There has to be a point where conditions are unbearable at which point the cat goes. Don't tell me otherwise. >Janet ... what's your limit? Your line in the sand regarding inappropriate >whizzing. It's obviously pretty high. I'm determined we can fix it, as we have for months at a time. >Do people come to visit you anymore? of course. Are people uneasy about >sitting on any of your furniture? Nope. my house is very clean. > Does your house wreak of deodorizers in >attempt to cover up the smell of cat pee? Nope. Cleaning doesn't do that. >How about damage to wood items in >your house? Carpets? No long term damage. No carpets. > There has to be a point where conditions are >unbearable at which point the cat goes. Don't tell me otherwise. Goes where Phillip? SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album >> Janet ... what's your limit? Your line in the sand regarding >> inappropriate whizzing. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Goes where Phillip? OUT THE DOOR ... forever. See my other post to this effect. You're determined to "fix" the unfixable .... given the global condtions of your home. Whether it is you, your brands of household cleaners, other animals, the brand of litter, or God knows what else, the combination triggers territorial spraying, tantrum pissing, or acute incontinence. Give it Up. Do you not have more enjoyable things to do with your time than this? Life is short. > >Janet ... what's your limit? Your line in the sand regarding inappropriate > >whizzing. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Goes where Phillip? Good for you. Phillip is an a.shole. > I can't even go into all of the issues this cat has. Some have > existed since the day I brought her home at 8 weeks old, some have > exsited for the past 3 years. I wanted to add this: The first time Budda peed inappropriately was when she was new here and upset at being uprooted. Second time was when my husband kept shooing her off the bed because we were laundering the bedding. She waited until it was all dressed out in the fresh linens and he was in bed, then jumped up and peed on HIM on top of the down comforter whose cover we had just washed. She went to the vet the next day, howled all the way there, and after one day of confinement she did not pee outside the box for well over a year. Third time: we had a house full of company including an infant and two children under the age of 7. She peed on the inside door mat, which was already damp from them coming in and out. That time I confined her in my room and chalked it up to my mistake--I should have confined here there fromt he first, for her own peace of mind. Fourth time: this past week. Since Buddha had recently gotten new scratch pads, I bought my other cat a new one because hers was shredded, but I did not by Buddha a new one. Stupid me, I left the bag on the dining room floor and Buddha, who is crazy for catnip in a way I have never seen before, actually got in and worked the baggie of catnip free from the scrather package! What could I do but give the scratcher to her! Well, she had a turboscratcher in downstairs in her territory that she has always ignored, though it has been down there for over a year. I thought, I will take that one, rub it with catnip, and give it to Cheeky until I can get her another. So I bring it up, and for fun, after I rub it with fresh catnip, I put it across the room from Buddha and her new scratch pad, so I can watch both Buddha and Cheeks play. But Buddha, who is a big, lumbering, mouthy and assertive girl, does not want to let Cheeky have either pad! She keeps chasing her away from the turboscratcher and will not let her at it or the new pad. So I raised my voice at her, showed her the turbo scratcher and said NO! and placed her on her new scratch pad. Cheeky played on the old one, Buddha on the new one, all seemed fine. Then company was coming and we weree cleaning up, probably two days later. I pick up the turbo scratcher and put it on the kitchen table in preparation for taking it upstairs to Cheeky's territory. I have already taken the new scratcher down to Buddha's. And I notice LIQUID in the groove where the ball goes, and all over the pad. The paper towel test shows that it is urine. Because I had yelled at her, Buddha had snuck in and PEED all over the turbo scratcher. Also because it was HERS. It had her scent all over it and I gave it to Cheeks. So she was marking it. All my fault. Very stupid of me. I was not even going to confine her when I found that she had annointed the inside door mat, too. I took he to the vet. No UTI. So then I did confine her. I showed her the spot, and took her to the room. She howled on and off most of the day and it hurt me more than it hurt her. I put her back in at night, then did not have the heart to do it a second day. She has now been a week with no "accidents." > Thin-skinned? Because a few people made holier-than-thou statements > of *I* would never use such a thing? That ain't thin-skinned - that's > being criticized directly. I suspect those who are so quick to judge you have never been in a situation where behavior modification and standard medical intervention fails to provide relief. You have nothing to feel bad about using Amitriptyline or Fluoxitine - both are standard-use drugs for the treatment of inappropriate elimination in the feline and have been shown safe and effective in numerous studies. > I can't even go into all of the issues this cat has. Some have > existed since the day I brought her home at 8 weeks old, some have [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Feliway, we've tried every cat litter in creation (once again, she > does not avoid the box), we've used citrus spray and other deterrents. IME, deterrents generally don't work. Cats pee inappropriately for a reason - if it isn't due to infection, sometimes it's stress-related or due to a condition thought ot be similar to interstitial cystitis (which is essentially impossible to diagnose). In both cases, Amiltriptyline is usually the first-course of treatment, followed by Fluoxitine, so I think your vet is on-track. Did the vet say anything about anything else being in the urine (proteins, polysaccharides, lipids)? > She's been on various meds for symptoms such as unexplained paralysis, > blood in her urine, bizarre reactivity to noise, etc. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > SO, you're diagnosis is? It is these kind of situations where the vet basically has to try treatments until he comes upon one which works (as you have discovered). The renal insufficentcy my be causing her some discomfort. Does her meowing in any way seem as if it may be pain-related? The reason I ask is that inappropriate elimination can also be tied to pain in felines. She may just be an overly-needy cat. Sometimes they take to peeing inappropriately for attention. Does the inappropriate elimination happen mainly at night or during the day, or both? Also, is she declawed? (I won't flame you if she is - it's just another data point which may lead to explaining why the behavior continues.) -L. > > Thin-skinned? Because a few people made holier-than-thou statements > > of *I* would never use such a thing? That ain't thin-skinned - that's [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > -L. I know a cat owner who tried every deterrent in the book, and bought enough Feliway to float a battleship, and continued to do so until her house reeked of urine. She was also one of those who was vehemently opposed to medicating cats. But the meds worked, like a charm. IIRC she later weaned him off of them. I haven't spoken to her about it in a long time, but will try to find out how he is now. We did have a situation here that was causing one of the (new) cats to pee outside the box. It turns out Boots was jumping him when he tried to use the box. The situation resolved just fine with a new covered box, and a little closer monitoring. Sherry > > > Thin-skinned? Because a few people made holier-than-thou statements > > > of *I* would never use such a thing? That ain't thin-skinned - that's [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] > later weaned him off of them. I haven't spoken to her about it in a > long time, but will try to find out how he is now. My statement "I cannot imagine giving my cats psychotropic drugs" was literal. I cannot imagine changing their personalities in any way because the way they are is precious to me. I am not at all opposed to medicating cats. > We did have a situation here that was causing one of the (new) cats to > pee outside the box. It turns out Boots was jumping him when he tried > to use the box. The situation resolved just fine with a new covered > box, and a little closer monitoring. > Sherry > > > > Thin-skinned? Because a few people made holier-than-thou statements > > > > of *I* would never use such a thing? That ain't thin-skinned - that's [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > the way > they are is precious to me. I am not at all opposed to medicating cats. Well, yeah, I'm sure everyone feels that way. No one wants to give their cats drugs that could possibly affect their personalty. BUT. No one can possibly live with a randomly pissing cat, either. I'd much rather see a cat on Buspar, Prozac, than for the owner to just give up on them, throw them outdoors or worse. It's not anybody's first choice. It's a last resort and lesser of three evils. The cat I referred to earlier acted lethargic at first. They then cut his dose in half, he perked up and didn't act stoned, or different, or anything. Sherry Sherry > Well, yeah, I'm sure everyone feels that way. No one wants to give > their cats drugs that could possibly affect their personalty. BUT. No [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > anything. > Sherry Elavil doesn't usually affect personality. At least I have never known a guardian to complain that it did. Dunno about Prozac as my observation of its use in felines is limited. -L. > I cannot imagine changing their personalities in any way because >the way >they are is precious to me. Even if that means you could change chronic urinatin problems Peeing on things is precious to you? SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album >> I cannot imagine changing their personalities in any way because >> the way >> they are is precious to me. > > Even if that means you could change chronic urinatin problems Peeing > on things is precious to you? Mary lives for cats pissing on her Cherrios. Gives her motivation and passion to post here. (:^D > > I cannot imagine changing their personalities in any way because > >the way > >they are is precious to me. > > Even if that means you could change chronic urinatin problems Peeing > on things is precious to you? This does not follow, since my cats don't have that problem. The fact that you are so defensive leads me to believe that there is more to this story, just as Barry says. > I know a cat owner who tried every deterrent in the book, and bought > enough Feliway to float a battleship, and continued to do so until her [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > box, and a little closer monitoring. > Sherry Some cats just pee for territory, and nothing you do makes them stop, not even psychotropic drugs. A lot of those cats get euthanized. What makes me sick are the "owners" who won't try Elavil but instead choose to euth their cats instead. It's just assinine. Knock on wood, I haven't had any peeing wars here, except Mimi hangs her kitty parts outside the box on occassion. She's old and has arthritis, so I think it is hard for her to walk on scoopable litter. It's annoying but not often or bad enough to warrant treatment. Her urinalysis came out clean. So I clean it up and keep paper towels under the box to help contain it. It's weird - she will go months without doing it and then do it a couple days in a row. But she's a weird cat, so there ya go... -L. >We did have a situation here that was causing one of the (new) cats to >pee outside the box. It turns out Boots was jumping him when he tried >to use the box. The situation resolved just fine with a new covered >box, and a little closer monitoring. We have 3 boxes, and one is in a totally different location. The other cat never sabatoges her (I didn't think you were implying so...) and they have no issues with each other, spatially. SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album > >We did have a situation here that was causing one of the (new) cats to > >pee outside the box. It turns out Boots was jumping him when he tried [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > Janet B Well, then it sounds to me like you've exhausted every avenue *besides* drug therapy, and ruled out any obvious stress factors that you could possibly correct. I can't see that it would hurt to try it. You sound like my friend I was telling you about. She went for months, spend hundreds of dollars on Feliway *alone*, besides vet costs. She was so desperate she even consulted an animal behaviorist -- THEN an animal communicator. It's not like she threw a pill at him the first time he whizzed on the bed or anything. Sherry >She was so >desperate she even consulted an animal behaviorist -- THEN an animal >communicator. It's not like she threw a pill at him the first time he >whizzed on the bed or anything. exactly! we've tested and tested and tested and tried all sorts of things. This isn't exactly a "quick fix" situation, by a long shot. and despite Philip's bizarre rantings, she's not leaving and not getting sent to live outside. SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album >> She was so >> desperate she even consulted an animal behaviorist -- THEN an animal [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > and despite Philip's common sense, she's not leaving and not > getting sent to live outside. Dear Janet .... why are you making this a Federal case? What is really driving you to bang your head against this block wall? Got abandonment issues of your own? > > >We did have a situation here that was causing one of the (new) cats to > > >pee outside the box. It turns out Boots was jumping him when he tried [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > drug therapy, and ruled out any obvious stress factors that you could > possibly correct. I can't see that it would hurt to try it. Her cat has been on Elavil for years and now it has |
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