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Can fluid or transfusion overload cause heart failure?..long..

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Lucrezia Borgia - 22 May 2005 01:16 GMT
Several weeks ago, my cat had to be admitted to an animal hospital for
emergency surgery to remove bladder stones which were blocking his
urinary tract. A few hours before surgery, his BUN was 70 and his
packed cell volume % (PCV) was in normal ranges. Four hours after
surgery, his PCV% dropped into the mid teens. Four hours later, they
called and asked for permission to give him a transfusion, to which I
agreed.

When I saw him the next day, he was receiving a second transfusion
because his PCV% was still very low. He was also on a fluid line, but
was no longer catheterized. He did not regain normal urination after
surgery: he was either voiding small amounts where he was lying or
sitting or they were expressing his bladder. On the third day after
surgery, because he wasn't eating they decided that he was anxious and
discharged him. They gave me no meds for the urinary tract but just
said to observe his urination. I brought him back 12 hours later since
he was not peeing normally or eating. He was examined, and we were sent
home. About 15 hours after that I rushed him back in because he was in
respiratory distress. He turned out to be in congestive heart failure.

I immediately thought that he probably had cardiomyopathy, which had
previously shown no symptoms. But when I asked the first vet caring for
him on this round what had caused the heart failure, he said he thought
it was from 'transfusion overload' along with some pre-existing unknown
heart problem. They did an echocardiogram on him, and the only thing of
significance that showed up was 'mild to moderate diastolic
dysfunction'.

Fortunately, he survived being sedated, so he could be catheterized and
the CHF resolved after having fluid removed from both his pleural
cavity and his lungs. I was told that if they could get his urination
issues resolved, he would not be placed on cardiac medication. The vet
said he had an atonic (stretched) bladder, and that he needed to be
catheterized for several days for the bladder to regain elasticity.
Ultimately, he also found up with urethral spasms and after a course of
medication, some steroids and catheterization, he was urinating on his
own.

I became very suspicious at the point I realized he did not have
cardiomyopathy. I requested his records, and after eventually getting
all of them, discovered that during the first admission, he had
experienced an episode of fluid overload, which given the blood and
fluids being pumped into him on top of his lack of proper urination and
the lack of a catheter. Nothing was done to explore why he was not
urinating properly after surgery, even though bladder atony is not an
unusual occurence after having bladder stones removed. When I brought
him back in in respiratory distress, his PCV % was still in the teens,
and his BUN was 213 and his creatinine was over 6.0. When I checked to
see what his BUN had been when he was discharged the first time, I
discovered that they never did a full blood panel on him, except for
the one done before the operation.

I amassed a huge bill on his care - he was at a big name place in a big
city - and I complained to them about the fact that they sent him home
without resolving the urination, thinking that the kidney problems were
what put him into heart failure. They responded that they still felt it
was appropriate for them to send him home when they did etc etc. They
also made much of the anemia, but failed to mention that it had
occurred post surgery or to note that his blood factors were almost
normal 2 weeks after he was discharged the second time. That was before
I got the records however.

Now they are still defending their decision, altho they are offering me
a small discount that is not acceptable to me, given that their actions
almost killed him IMO. They now concluded that the combination of
transfusion and fluid overload and his urination issues put an already
existing heart problem over the edge, triggering the CHF.

If anyone is still reading this, do you know whether volume overload
from whatever source can cause damage to the heart all on its own. I
had the impression that it could, because it could be a life
threatening situation. After talking to a few human medical types (my
own vet is not being all that helpful for reasons I don't want to get
into, altho he was not involved directly in these events), they think
that it is more likely that the anemia was putting stress on the heart
because of declining oxygen right at the time that they were pumping
fluids into him, while his kidneys were starting to slow down, and that
that triggered the heart failure. If my cat was never diagnosed with a
cardiac problem, and has always received well care check-ups, how can
anyone determine that there was a pre-existing condition??

I'd be grateful for any comments on any of this. My cat pulled through
but seems to be at only 90% of where he was before.
Adam Helberg - 22 May 2005 03:36 GMT
> Several weeks ago, my cat had to be admitted to an animal hospital for
> emergency surgery to remove bladder stones which were blocking his
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
> I'd be grateful for any comments on any of this. My cat pulled through
> but seems to be at only 90% of where he was before.

I'm no vet either but anemia and kidney failure with no urine output plus fluids can
cause acute heart failure with pulmonary edema in humans. In humans the fluid can be
removed by dialysis so the patient can be transfused.  It's not uncommon for dialysis
patients to have bouts of pulmonary edema, but I don't believe there is permanent
damage to the heart.

In any case what's in the past is in the past.

Adam
Lucrezia Borgia - 22 May 2005 03:59 GMT
Thanks for your response. They put him on lasix to get the fluid out of
his lungs and did a needle extraction for the fluid in his pleural
cavity. His kidney reactions were post-renal problems caused by the
original obstruction and post-surgical urination troubles. Since they
did not initially address the abnormal urination post-surgery, I
believe the kidneys slowed down even further. He also would not eat,
likely related to the kidney issue.

Over a 4 day period, starting with the heart failure day, his weight
dropped by 11%, I'm sure all fluids. But he was safely catheterized by
then. He was a totally different cat compared to when he had been
discharged. My own vet did a  microalbuminuria test which in cats is
now considered to pick up very early signs of kidney disease; 2.5 is
the tolerable level and his came in at 0.20, so I think his kidneys are
okay. I hope that you are right about the heart.

This isn't totally over for me, given that I owe them thousands of
dollars still. And they did almost kill him. This was a surgical vet
working with him, altho there are other specialties at the place, and
they removed the catheter because of the risk of post-surgical
infection. But they sort of lost sight of the fact that if you bring in
a cat because he cannot pee, you shouldn't send him home again until he
can. I can't believe in retrospect that I did not demand that they have
a medicine or urology specialist evaluate him. I did not know very much
about feline lower tract urinary disorders before this but I sure do
now.

Thanks again.
animzmirot - 22 May 2005 03:54 GMT
A short answer to a long post. Yes, absolutely positively yes, an overload
of fluids can and does cause CHF. It does in humans, it does in cats, and it
probably does in plenty of other animals.

Marjorie

> Several weeks ago, my cat had to be admitted to an animal hospital for
> emergency surgery to remove bladder stones which were blocking his
[quoted text clipped - 79 lines]
> I'd be grateful for any comments on any of this. My cat pulled through
> but seems to be at only 90% of where he was before.
Lucrezia Borgia - 22 May 2005 04:06 GMT
And are you both saying that that can happen without any pre-existing
heart problems at all?
Now that the fluid overload was discovered by me in the records, and
the senior guy learned that another vet said he thought transfusion
overload was to blame, they are claiming he must have had a
pre-existing heart problem. Given their initial response to me, which
was that the decision to send him home before his urine problems were
solved was 'reasonable'. because the vet thought he had HOSPITAL
ANXIETY, at least they now assume that I read at more than a 4th grade
level.

(If you think this was long, I've already sent the CEO two 7 page
letters lol.)
Phil P. - 22 May 2005 07:40 GMT
> And are you both saying that that can happen without any pre-existing
> heart problems at all?

Absolutely!

> Now that the fluid overload was discovered by me in the records, and
> the senior guy learned that another vet said he thought transfusion
> overload was to blame, they are claiming he must have had a
> pre-existing heart problem.

They're trying to cover their collective incompetent a.ses!  The fact that
his CRF resolved after paracentesis (abdominocentesis or thoracocentesis) is
incontrovertible evidence that the CHF was caused by *iatrogenic* (vet
induced) volume overload.  The echo confirms this fact.  If he had *any*
trace of CHF the echo would have shown some degree of left atrial
enlargement.  Also, if he had any trace of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy the
echo would have shown some thickening of the interventricular septum and/or
the left ventricular posterior wall.

His dyspnoea was also caused by *iatrogenic* fluid overload- the backup of
fluid into his lungs was preventing his lungs from ventilating and
oxygenating his blood.

His BUN was elevated because a urinary tract obstruction in male cats
produces a pathophysiologic state equivalent to oliguric acute renal
failure- IOW,  urea diffuses back across the renal tubules and raises the
BUN.

Given their initial response to me, which
> was that the decision to send him home before his urine problems were
> solved was 'reasonable'. because the vet thought he had HOSPITAL
> ANXIETY, at least they now assume that I read at more than a 4th grade
> level.

It infuriates me when a vet conjures up an utter bullshit story to cover his
a.s!

> (If you think this was long, I've already sent the CEO two 7 page
> letters lol.)

I'd send him more than letter!

Sorry if I was a bit harsh- stories like this really piss me off.

I just hope your cat is ok.

Best of luck,

Phil
Lucrezia Borgia - 22 May 2005 09:00 GMT
Trust me, the only reason my description was polite was that I don't
like using profanities on-line. I do use them enough in real life.
This has been an odyssey. It took an extended effort to get his full
record set. Initially I only got test reports, and one single lab
report for the first admission. I called med records and had 4
different clerks tell me that their policy was to only send out test
results, a clear violation of the law. I finally called the President's
office, got his secretary, told her my name, the problem and the regs
according to the office of professional discipline. She immediately
told me that she would connect me with someone to help me. I got a hold
of her 5 minutes later, and she was already in Medical Records. She
actually had the balls to tell me that most of their clients do not
understand certain of the records, so they don't send them out. Within
2 hours, they were available for pickup.

When I saw the first set of tests only, I noted that both a
cardiologist and a radiologist had scribbled in the history box that he
had one episode of fluid overload, which no one told me about. After
that, I went on the rampage. I'm not sure what my next step will be.
I've been ferreting out addresses of their trustees where they will
actually get mail, and have amassed a lot of info on the place which is
a not-for profit. I might write up a handout telling people to ask for
their financial support programs, which they don't mention to anyone.
(At the end of 2003, they had $40 million bucks in the bank, and
virtually no liabilities.) I've already checked with the police
precinct they are in, and have verified my right to pass out flyers.
What I may do is draft a letter to their trustees and a draft of the
flyers, and email them to the CEO asking him which he preferred I send
out next! Plus, I took photos of my cat on the day before he was
discharged, and he looks half dead, which he likely was. I sent them to
him in my last letter. 'Art' sometimes helps. That's another possible
handout as well.

All I can think is that they are rarely challenged or that people back
down easily. I've just gotten madder, which is why they offered me a
20% discount.

In the name of God, I cannot fathom how a Director of surgery can
continue to support sending a non-urinating cat home after surgery to
remove stones so he could urinate!

This large place benefits from being the major 24/7 place in my
hometown, although private ER places are now opening. Do you live just
west of the Hudson? (I looked at your webpage from another post.) If
you do, you might guess whom I mean, since I live east of the Hudson. I
just don't want to mention them by name here.
-L. - 22 May 2005 09:27 GMT
<snip>

> When I saw the first set of tests only, I noted that both a
> cardiologist and a radiologist had scribbled in the history box that he
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> you do, you might guess whom I mean, since I live east of the Hudson. I
> just don't want to mention them by name here.

First, I would file a grievance with the state licencing board. I would
do that before I did anything else.   That's about your only course of
action that will mean anything to them.

Unless you can get another vet to write a report stating malpractice,
you pretty much have to pay the bill.  If you can get another vet to
support you (fat chance - they are all in cahouts) I would refuse to
pay the bill and let them sue you in small claims.  Then you can defend
not paying because of malpractice.  One way to get a vet's support is
to get an out-of-state vet to support your findings - sometimes they
will because they have no interest in the matter.

If you file with the state licencing board, it becomes a matter of
public record, regardless of what happens during/after the
investigation.  That way, people who research a vet thoroughly before
choosing them can be privy to what happened.

I'm glad your kitty is ok.

Good luck,
-L.
Lucrezia Borgia - 22 May 2005 21:07 GMT
This is not a typical situation. This is not a private vet; it is a not
for profit animal hospital with a 'great reputation'.
I'm not certain if I can file a complaint against them as an entity,
and so far, I cannot
figure out whether any public agency 'licenses' them as a care
facility. (The way a human hospital
is licensed by its state's health department, usually.) I could file a
complaint against the junior vet
actually caring for him but the problem was wider than that.

I've paid about half of a very large bill. I have no intention of
paying any more.

Thanks for your suggestions!
Phil P. - 23 May 2005 05:57 GMT
> Trust me, the only reason my description was polite was that I don't
> like using profanities on-line. I do use them enough in real life.
[quoted text clipped - 42 lines]
> you do, you might guess whom I mean, since I live east of the Hudson. I
> just don't want to mention them by name here.

Yeah, I'm a little West of the River- but I grew up East of the River and
I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about- (A)ll (M)y (C)hildren?

Phil
Lucrezia Borgia - 23 May 2005 06:59 GMT
LOL ..aka (A)all (M)y (C)ash
Phil P. - 23 May 2005 12:54 GMT
> LOL ..aka (A)all (M)y (C)ash

ROTFL! Very good! You hit the nail smack on the head!  Have you ever seen a
vet clinic with valet parking before?  The valet parking should have been a
tip off for what you were in for! ;-)

Phil
Barb - 22 May 2005 11:36 GMT
Lucrezia,

I'm not a vet but I did read your whole letter.  From what I read you are
very lucky that your cat is still almost as well as before.  I certainly
have heard of underlying heart conditions in kids, otherwise healthy, that
had yearly check-ups and then dropped dead in the middle of sports from an
undiagnosed heart condition that no one knew about.

For a knowledgeable response from someone who isn't actually a vet, refer
your question to Phil.

--
Barb
Of course I don't look busy,
I did it right the first time.
 
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