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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / May 2005neutering age?
Hi all - I am getting two more kittens (Cali & Randi are fine now so now I'm able to add to my family) from the same shelter I got Cali, but they are in foster care - about 3 months old - two boys. They are not neutered yet; what is the general age they do this now? When I got Randi he was done at 9 weeks before I got him. I'm getting them the end of the week. One is a longhair gray and the other is black & white. They're so cute - both males. Carol > Hi all - I am getting two more kittens (Cali & Randi are fine now so now I'm > able to add to my family) from the same shelter I got Cali, but they are in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > longhair gray and the other is black & white. > They're so cute - both males. Carol **Hi Carol, It really depends on how comfortable you* feel about getting it/ the procedure on done on him or her. I, personally, have preferred to get my cats neutered when: Blue was over 8 months, and now Dove. almost 7 months old. I feel better just knowing that his little organs and hormones has had some* time to develop. Something intuitive in me has directed me towards that mindset. ML > Hi all - I am getting two more kittens (Cali & Randi are fine now so now I'm > able to add to my family) from the same shelter I got Cali, but they are in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > longhair gray and the other is black & white. > They're so cute - both males. Carol G;aad you are adding to your family. They can be safely neutered now, as long as they weigh 2 lbs. They have to weigh at least that much to be developmentally ready to handle anesthesia. -L. >> Hi all - I am getting two more kittens (Cali & Randi are fine now so >> now I'm able to add to my family) from the same shelter I got Cali, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > -L. It's instructive to note that women cat owners lop off a cats balls as soon as the cat can stand the anesthesia while male cat owners perfer to wait until the first yowls of mating occur. Funny that difference. Wonder how much of this is owner projection? > >> Hi all - I am getting two more kittens (Cali & Randi are fine now so > >> now I'm able to add to my family) from the same shelter I got Cali, [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > until the first yowls of mating occur. Funny that difference. Wonder how > much of this is owner projection? Well this woman cat owner doesn't fit your stereotype. I wait till my girls are 6 mos and the boys 7 (or obviously sexually mature earlier) before getting them neutered. I had never heard of very young kittens being neutered until just recently so I guess it's a case of old dogs, new tricks and all that. I'll wait for a generation of cats to be neutered young and see what the long term effects are before risking my own. But that's just me. W "Wendy" <wendyzpart@nospam.com> wrote in message > Well this woman cat owner doesn't fit your stereotype. I wait till my girls > are 6 mos and the boys 7 (or obviously sexually mature earlier) before [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > see what the long term effects are before risking my own. But that's just > me. Cat have been neutered early (6-12 weeks) for >30 years and no early or long-term adverse effects have ever been documented. Special anesthesia and surgical considerations must be observed with young kittens, but as long as the well established anesthetic and surgical protocols are followed, early -age neutering (EAN) is no more risky than traditional age neutering. In fact EAN is less traumatic for the cat than traditional-age neutering- especially for females- because young kittens have less abdominal fat and muscle to cut. Surgery and anesthetic time is also substantially reduced. There is also virtually no bleeding because the small vessel size permits precise hemostasis. Recovery and healing is also much quicker- kittens are up and playing within minutes after surgery and eating within an hour. Watch this video: http://maxshouse.com/Early_Age_Spay-1.wmv Phil > > >> Hi all - I am getting two more kittens (Cali & Randi are fine now so > > >> now I'm able to add to my family) from the same shelter I got Cali, [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > W **Yep. Me too, Wendy. :-) ML > Well this woman cat owner doesn't fit your stereotype. I wait till my girls > are 6 mos and the boys 7 (or obviously sexually mature earlier) before > getting them neutered. I had never heard of very young kittens being > neutered until just recently so I guess it's a case of old dogs, new tricks > and all that. Nope, you're just out of the loop. >I'll wait for a generation of cats to be neutered young and > see what the long term effects are before risking my own. It's been done for 25+ years, IIRC. Study after study has shown early S/N to be safe. Here are just a few: Kustritz MV. Early spay-neuter: clinical considerations. Clin Tech Small Anim Pract. 2002 Aug;17(3):124-8. Kustritz MV. Early spay-neuter in the dog and cat. Vet Clin North Am Small Anim Pract. 1999 Jul;29(4):935-43, vii. Hoskins JD. Pediatric health care and management. Vet Clin North Am Small Anim Pract. 1999 Jul;29(4):837-52, v. Stubbs WP, Bloomberg MS. Implications of early neutering in the dog and cat. Semin Vet Med Surg (Small Anim). 1995 Feb;10(1):8-12. Howe LM. Short-term results and complications of prepubertal gonadectomy in cats and dogs.J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1997 Jul 1;211(1):57-62. Johnston SD. Questions and answers on the effects of surgically neutering dogs and cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1991 Apr 1;198(7):1206-14. Kahler S. Spaying/neutering comes of age. J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1993 Sep 1;203(5):591-3. Lieberman LL. A case for neutering pups and kittens at two months of age. J Am Vet Med Assoc. 1987 Sep 1;191(5):518-21. Erratum in: J Am Vet Med Assoc 1987 Nov 1;191(9):1118. Phillips I. In favor of pediatric neutering. Can Vet J. 1998 Jul;39(7):397. Lieberman LL. The optimum time for neutering surgery of dogs and cats. Vet Rec. 1988 Apr 9;122(15):369. Gourley J. When to spay. Vet Rec. 1987 Oct 17;121(16):384. Okkens AC, Kooistra HS, Nickel RF. [Comparison of long term side effects of ovariectomy versus ovariohisterectomy in the bitch] Tijdschr Diergeneeskd. 2002 Jun 1;127(11):369-72. Dutch. There is no reason to wait until a puppy or kitten is sexually mature. In fact, some types of cancers such as mammary and ovarian cancer are thought to be triggered or exascerbated by gonadotrophins. -L. >> Well this woman cat owner doesn't fit your stereotype. I wait till >> my girls are 6 mos and the boys 7 (or obviously sexually mature [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > -L. Yeah and the American Medical Association goes hot and cold on everything from aspirin to cholesterol to coffee to Zynax. ;^) I for one am not buying the 2 pound rule (crap) about when to neuter a cat. Yeah I've read here it is more about the anesthesia safety than the castration so .... were it not for the anesthesia issue, vets would neuter earlier? Why not just bring about sterile cats! Guess that could be the next thing with cloning. >>>> Hi all - I am getting two more kittens (Cali & Randi are fine now >>>> so now I'm able to add to my family) from the same shelter I got [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > W Your "girls" have balls (testicles)? I am developing an opinion that *very* *early* sterilization gets vets more customers, hence more revenue, (2)may well increase veterinary business later on from unrinary tract issues like blockages, (3)and is promoted in the interest of the greater good. (argh). > I am developing an opinion that *very* *early* sterilization gets vets > more customers, hence more revenue, (2)may well increase veterinary > business later on from unrinary tract issues like blockages, (3)and is > promoted in the interest of the greater good. (argh). Oh please. My one cat that did have blockage issues was neutered at 6 months, the "proper" time to neuter. Early spay/neuter *is* for the greater good. If you wait until 6 months to get a cat spayed/neutered, the females can already be in heat and the males sexually mature, and next thing you know, you've got a litter of kittens. If you spay/neuter at 2 lbs, there is no risk of this happening. BTW, have you ever seen a cat recover from a spay? The little kittens that are spayed early recover much more quickly and pain free.  Signature-Kelly > I am developing an opinion that *very* *early* sterilization gets vets > more customers, hence more revenue, (2)may well increase veterinary > business later on from unrinary tract issues like blockages, (3)and is > promoted in the interest of the greater good. (argh). Oh yeah, and most vets *don't* do early spay/neuter, for whatever reason. I haven't figured that one out yet. At least in this area, I only know of a few that do. So that blows your stupid vets do it for the money theory. Signature-Kelly >> I am developing an opinion that *very* *early* sterilization gets >> vets more customers, hence more revenue, (2)may well increase [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I only know of a few that do. > So that blows your stupid vets do it for the money theory. M developing theory is still sound. Around here, vets DO push for sterilization ASAP. A package deal of shots and sterization for $200+ is common. I've heard this from 4 vets personally and through several members at our church. It's as much a money grab as it is "for the greater good." Kelly ... it is LARGELY about the money when you bottom line it. Veterinary is a business. Every vet has payroll and rent to meet, not to mention insurances and taxes. When income is less than payout, eventually you go broke. And face it, vets are in business to stay in business. You have to sell ('educate') your customer by appealing to their emotions so they feel obliged to fork over a couple hundred dollars every time they walk in the door. > Kelly ... it is LARGELY about the money when you bottom line it. > Veterinary is a business. Every vet has payroll and rent to meet, not to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > they feel obliged to fork over a couple hundred dollars every time they > walk in the door. Yes, I know vets have a business to run and they have to make money. I know the difference in price as to what a vaccine really costs and what a vet typically charges. And that they often push vaccs you don't need, want you to get boosters more frequently than necessary, etc. When it comes to early spay/neuter, I don't buy that vets are doing it to knowingly cause cats to become blocked later down the road. That is ridiculous. Signature-Kelly >> Kelly ... it is LARGELY about the money when you bottom line it. >> Veterinary is a business. Every vet has payroll and rent to meet, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > doing it to knowingly cause cats to become blocked later down the > road. That is ridiculous. Only rediculous to you because your value system does not have business overhead to pay. Only rediculous to you because you are not thinking of how CREATING a need that you can fill for your "customers" can provide a lucrative revenue stream. Follow the money trail, Kelly. > Only rediculous to you because your value system does not have business > overhead to pay. Only rediculous to you because you are not thinking of > how CREATING a need that you can fill for your "customers" can provide a > lucrative revenue stream. Follow the money trail, Kelly. No, I don't think a vet would knowingly put a cat's life in danger. Urinary tract blockages can be fatal. By your reasoning, wouldn't it make more sense to do s/n later, or not at all, to create more customers, aka cats? Signature-Kelly >> Only rediculous to you because your value system does not have >> business overhead to pay. Only rediculous to you because you are [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > By your reasoning, wouldn't it make more sense to do s/n later, or > not at all, to create more customers, aka cats? You fail to follow my reasoning so your conclusion is invalid. As in ANY profession, some practices taught in school result in a revenue stream for recurring patches (income) instead of cures. > M developing theory is still sound. Around here, vets DO push for > sterilization ASAP. A package deal of shots and sterization for $200+ is > common. If you can get a whole series of vaccinations, exams and spay or neuter for $200.00, do it. That's a good deal. > I've heard this from 4 vets personally and through several members > at our church. It's as much a money grab as it is "for the greater good." > > Kelly ... it is LARGELY about the money when you bottom line it. Veterinary > is a business. Every vet has payroll and rent to meet, not to mention > insurances and taxes. When income is less than payout, eventually you go > broke. And face it, vets are in business to stay in business. You have to > sell ('educate') your customer by appealing to their emotions so they feel > obliged to fork over a couple hundred dollars every time they walk in the > door. Vets don't make much money on spaying and neutering. Believe me. They make a shitload of money on grooming*, declawing, consumables and numerous other procedures (especially consults and exams) but spaying and neutering are generally kept at a lower cost than most other procedures because most vets understand the importance of S/N. -L. * I could spend 30 minutes doing a lion cut and bath on a cat - cost to consumer - $90.00. It was a $115.00 minimum if gas sedation was needed. I made $16.00/hr at the time. I generally groomed 8-10 cats a day. You do the math. Even with overhead, the profit was huge. >> M developing theory is still sound. Around here, vets DO push for >> sterilization ASAP. A package deal of shots and sterization for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If you can get a whole series of vaccinations, exams and spay or neuter > for $200.00, do it. That's a good deal. No, that JUST for the initial shots required by law and neutering for what is expected to be an indoor/outdoor kitten! You want more shots and blood tests? Double that figure. > Vets don't make much money on spaying and neutering. Believe me. They > make a shitload of money on grooming*, declawing, consumables and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -L. Hahhahah. They do? The three near me sure do not. They thank nearby Petco and PetSmart for that revenue loss. From what I've seen at both of these large pet retailers, taking your pussy to be scrubbed, trimmed, and blow dried professionally is NOT something cat owners do ... compared to K9 owners. Would you take your pussy to a place that wreaks of wet dogs? > * I could spend 30 minutes doing a lion cut and bath on a cat - cost to > consumer - $90.00. It was a $115.00 minimum if gas sedation was > needed. I made $16.00/hr at the time. I generally groomed 8-10 cats a > day. You do the math. Even with overhead, the profit was huge. GAS SEDATION!! For a bath? Fer gawdsake! NO. Well, maybe a Persian because they're usually pissed off anyway. Gee ... I wonder why. LOL > Your "girls" have balls (testicles)? > > I am developing an opinion that *very* *early* sterilization gets vets more > customers, hence more revenue, (2)may well increase veterinary business > later on from unrinary tract issues like blockages, Nope. (3)and is promoted in > the interest of the greater good. (argh). It's done in many shelter situations to help stop the flow of cats in the door. I worked for a high-volume feline specialty cat practice. We saw often 70 cats a day, sometimes as many as 100 or 120. We promoted early spay/neuter because people tend to put it off, and there really is no reason to. Once it gets put off, it becomes less of a priority and often it isn't done at all, and unwanted litters result. I have literally participated in the early spay/neuter of thousands of animals - we offered the service at cost or at no cost, depending on income, simply to help control the cat over population problem, which, if you don't know, is rampant in this country. The procedure is safe (has been proven over the past 25+ years or so) and 100% effective in preventing unwanted litters. If you had ever worked at a facility where animals die for lack of homes you would understand the importance of neutering and understand why early S/N is being promoted. You may scoff at the cat overpopulation problem - I don't. I have seen far too many healthy cats and kittens on the kill piles. Somebody has to have an interest in the "greater good" of the feline population. The people who do are the true cat advocates. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you volunteer at a kill shelter. You will understand in a very short period of time. -L. > If you had ever worked at a facility where animals die for lack of > homes you would understand the importance of neutering and understand [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > volunteer at a kill shelter. You will understand in a very short > period of time. Yep. We've taken in many litters because "I was going to get her spayed when she's older" or "I thought she needed to go into heat first". One year old unneutered males are also a popular turn-in because they have started spraying. If these cats had been s/n at an early age, this wouldn't have happened. Signature-Kelly That's why the shelter where I got Randi neuters/spays BEFORE you get them. You don't have a choice. That's how it should be! I get my new babies tomorrow night! :) carol >> If you had ever worked at a facility where animals die for lack of >> homes you would understand the importance of neutering and understand [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > started spraying. If these cats had been s/n at an early age, this > wouldn't have happened. "ElvisRocks" <elvisrocks1@comcast.net> wrote : > I get my new babies tomorrow night! :) carol Can't wait to see them!! >> Your "girls" have balls (testicles)? >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Nope. snipped the rest Of all the cats I've had during my life, the only one with recurring urinary blockages as he got older was the Siamese male. And he was clipped at 11 weeks. All the others were clipped at 6 to 11 months and those never had urinary blockage. So a simple "nope" and "been doin' it for 25 yrs" falls on deaf ears. What I do detect from you is preaching about the "greater good" for the cat population. Where you live ... but not where I live. Our problem is with stray K9's and macho Mexicans with their untrained pit bulls attacking people. > Of all the cats I've had during my life, the only one with recurring urinary > blockages as he got older was the Siamese male. And he was clipped at 11 > weeks. All the others were clipped at 6 to 11 months and those never had > urinary blockage. One incidence/anecdote does not data make. Data - real data - supports ESN as safe and effective. I have already posted 10 studies that prove my argument. besides, Siamese are wrought with genetic problems - 19 genetic defects are known in the breed, IIRC. > So a simple "nope" and "been doin' it for 25 yrs" falls > on deaf ears. What I do detect from you is preaching about the "greater > good" for the cat population. Where you live ... but not where I live. Our > problem is with stray K9's and macho Mexicans with their untrained pit bulls > attacking people. Gee, generalize much, Phillip? God knows white people, black people, purple people and everyone in between never buy or own rogue Pit Bulls... You live in So. CA, right? I suspect if you go to your local animal shelter you will see a pile of dead cats - culled for lack of homes. In fact, I'd bet on it. -L. >> Of all the cats I've had during my life, the only one with recurring >> urinary blockages as he got older was the Siamese male. And he was [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > supports ESN as safe and effective. I have already posted 10 studies > that prove my argument. Well there are a number of subjects that I could publish about with supporting evidence that would be 50% great sounding rubbish. Let's move on. >>besides, Siamese are wrought with genetic > problems - 19 genetic defects are known in the breed, IIRC. The pair that I owned were from about 1973 to 1991. There might have been a few less imperfections at that time ... :^) Matter of fact, Thailand was also the one who developed his own bouncing baby hemorrhoid. Sorry, no macro photos on hand. >> So a simple "nope" and "been doin' it for 25 yrs" falls >> on deaf ears. What I do detect from you is preaching about the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > purple people and everyone in between never buy or own rogue Pit > Bulls... I was at the OC Pound a couple of weeks back, reviewing available cats, remember? I got the tour by one of the care takers. I asked ... she was very frank. I like that in a woman. You don't know what Santa Ana is like nor the what it is to be living near a "sanctuary city" for illegals. So if you want me to expand on that subject, lets do it privately. > You live in So. CA, right? I suspect if you go to your local animal > shelter you will see a pile of dead cats - culled for lack of homes. > In fact, I'd bet on it. > > -L. The Dog Pile (not referring to: http://www.dogpile.com/ ) would would be higher but for the Vietnamese in nearby "Little Saigon" in Fountain Valley. > The Dog Pile (not referring to: http://www.dogpile.com/ ) would would be > higher but for the Vietnamese in nearby "Little Saigon" in Fountain Valley. You know, people like you make me really, really sad. Seriously. -L. >> The Dog Pile (not referring to: http://www.dogpile.com/ ) would >> would be higher but for the Vietnamese in nearby "Little Saigon" in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > -L. Lyn ... it's a different reality over here. I wasn't always like this ya know. The first two waves of Vietnamese boat people that arrived here back in the '70's really helped depopulate many municipal pounds of their dogs until the newspapers caught on. It's public record, Lyn. After that discovery, preventative adoption charges were instituted. Stray dogs are still at risk. "Philip" <1chip-state1@earthlink.n0t> wrote in message news:LbLie.3525 > The Dog Pile (not referring to: http://www.dogpile.com/ ) would would be > higher but for the Vietnamese in nearby "Little Saigon" in Fountain Valley. I completely understand your resentment and fear of the Vietnamese, you should be. They have a name for racist bigots like you: "Mat Dai" (pron: "muck yie") - roughly translated: 'you're an ignorant low-life because you come from ignorant parents who didn't teach you right'. > Well this woman cat owner doesn't fit your stereotype. I wait till my > girls [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > W There have already been several generations of cats that were spayed/neutered early. What are you waiting for? Signature-Kelly Philip Wrote: > It's instructive to note that women cat owners lop off a cats balls as soon > as the cat can stand the anesthesia while male cat owners perfer to wait > until the first yowls of mating occur. Funny that difference. Wonder how > much of this is owner projection? *** Not true. I'm a female..and proud :-). Please don't generalize about us, Philip, because that's not cool. Just like I'd be tempted to write, based on newspaper headlines, (local & national) that males are just aggressive bullies and murderers who have no anger control and they usually take out their frustrations on female partners and/or other nearby males. Do I know that this is Not* true for all* males out there..absolutely! Thank God. ML > Philip Wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > ML I have and do make the generalization. If only to observe this forum, you will see this is so. > Hi all - I am getting two more kittens (Cali & Randi are fine now so now I'm > able to add to my family) from the same shelter I got Cali, but they are in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > longhair gray and the other is black & white. > They're so cute - both males. Carol Cats can be neutered safely anytime after 6 weeks but I prefer 8-12 weeks. If I were you, I'd make an appointment to have them neutered on the same day you pick them up and bring them straight to the vet as soon as you get them. Congratulations and best of luck! Phil Wow! I just assumed because the other shelter had Randi neutered that everyone was doing it earlier now. S-O-R-R-Y! lol The woman who has the two kits (shelter volunteer) is taking them tonite for shots, de-worming and tests for the nasties (the testing at my expense), so technically I can bring them home as long as they test negative. They are at her house in foster care now, not at a shelter. I'll just see what my vet suggests..... Carol >> Hi all - I am getting two more kittens (Cali & Randi are fine now so now > I'm [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Phil They tested negative for the nasties!!! I'm getting them Friday! Yay!!! It's so exciting being an expectant mother!!! Carol P.S. I still miss Elvis ALOT. > Wow! I just assumed because the other shelter had Randi neutered that > everyone was doing it earlier now. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] >> >> Phil |
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