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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / May 2005recommended amounts on canned food
I had to laugh when I was at the grocery store not a half hour ago. I stopped at the cat food isle (cant let Gabers and Oreo starve!!) and decided to look at all the different canned foods. Since there has been a lot of talk about the recommended amount for them, I decided to look at all the different labels. On just ONE brand, their packaging had 3 different recommended amounts for adult cats. Not a different type of food (like the 'premium' or 'gravy' or 'sliced cuts' but the only difference was flavor. Isnt there some type of standard these manufacturers are held to? > I had to laugh when I was at the grocery store not a half hour ago. I > stopped at the cat food isle (cant let Gabers and Oreo starve!!) and decided [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 'premium' or 'gravy' or 'sliced cuts' but the only difference was flavor. > Isnt there some type of standard these manufacturers are held to? You mean how much you should feed? We have had so many long discussions on that. It seems to me that cats are like people--they have slower and faster metabolisms, so it depends. Phil has a very specific calorie-based recommendation, but it seems to me that past discussion supports feeding the average (healthy, average activity level) 10-pound cat about 8-10 ounces of canned food. About three little cans or, what, two big cans? But for my cat Buddha that would be way too much. First, she ought to weigh about 8 pounds, second, I want her to lose weight, and third she has both thyroid and heart conditions that mean her metabolism is a bit slow. Very complicated question! (Or, better, simple question, complicated answer.) > > I had to laugh when I was at the grocery store not a half hour ago. I > > stopped at the cat food isle (cant let Gabers and Oreo starve!!) and [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > that mean her metabolism is a bit slow. Very complicated question! > (Or, better, simple question, complicated answer.) Yes and no... I kind of figured about 2 1/2 cans/day would be enough for the two of them, I just cant believe the different standards all these cans have! A sane person would go crazy trying to go by each of these labels with the way they all have different amounts on them. And a crazy person... well they would probably smash all the cans on the ground after getting frustrated! Come to think of it... a sane person might do that too : ) > I had to laugh when I was at the grocery store not a half hour > ago. I stopped at the cat food isle (cant let Gabers and Oreo [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > was flavor. Isnt there some type of standard these manufacturers > are held to? Different foods have differing amounts of calories. Adjust food intake based on calories. Makes sense to me. What do you mean by "standard"?  SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields > > I had to laugh when I was at the grocery store not a half hour > > ago. I stopped at the cat food isle (cant let Gabers and Oreo [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > intake based on calories. Makes sense to me. What do you mean by > "standard"? I guess by standard I am thinking how all 'human' food has packaging based on the 2000 calorie diet, or what is considered average for a 'average' human. I (mistakenly it seems) assumed these cat food manufacturers would have the same type of averages in place on their labels... if not across the board with all other makers, but at least across the board on their own brand of cat food. Does that make a bit more sense? Sometimes I write things and they make perfect sense in my head, but other people scrach their heads : ) > I guess by standard I am thinking how all 'human' food has > packaging based on the 2000 calorie diet, or what is considered > average for a 'average' human. I guess I still don't understand this. You mean where they indicate for example, 2 servings per box, 100 calories per serving? Or do you mean percentage? I have only seen percentage listed for nutrients, not calories. Then, with human food, it is up to us to know how many servings of this food we should have in a day based on other food we eat. Or am I totally misunderstanding what you mean? I (mistakenly it seems) assumed > these cat food manufacturers would have the same type of > averages in place on their labels... if not across the board > with all other makers, but at least across the board on their > own brand of cat food. Does that make a bit more sense? > Sometimes I write things and they make perfect sense in my head, > but other people scrach their heads : ) I understand. I do the same thing. SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields > > I guess by standard I am thinking how all 'human' food has > > packaging based on the 2000 calorie diet, or what is considered [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > I understand. I do the same thing. We're getting closer... I will tell you what I read and maybe that will work! The label on one tin said "feed 1 1/2 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight for an adult cat" while the next one said "feed 2 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight" and yet another said "feed 3 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight" - the last one is what really shocked me. That would mean Gabe should be getting 6 cans a day! way wayyyy too much - The last one was in a boxed set, so the more I think about it, I am wondering if they were smaller tins just made by the same company; in that case 3 tins might equal 1 1/2 or 2 tins of the larger ones I was looking at. Regardless, the fact is that I picked up 2 of the exact same food by the exact same manufacturer with just a different flavor label and one said "1 1/2" and the other said "2" Better? This is where I should have brought my husband in... hes much better at saying something in just a few words and not having to say it 3 times before the point gets across. I tend to ramble and not make any sense :P > We're getting closer... I will tell you what I read and maybe that will > work! The label on one tin said "feed 1 1/2 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight > for an adult cat" while the next one said "feed 2 cans per 6-8 lbs body > weight" and yet another said "feed 3 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight" I understood exactly what you were saying, as did most people. We have all read these cat food cans. > We're getting closer... I will tell you what I read and maybe that will > work! The label on one tin said "feed 1 1/2 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > the exact same food by the exact same manufacturer with just a different > flavor label and one said "1 1/2" and the other said "2" I would experiment. I was lucky -- what I tried on Hodge worked the first time -- brought his weight down to where it should be, and he's maintaining it, AND he certainly seems healthy and energetic enough . . . Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/ > We're getting closer... I will tell you what I read and maybe > that will work! The label on one tin said "feed 1 1/2 cans per [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > to ramble and not make any sense >:P NP ;) I understand where you're coming from with the pet food labels and recommended amounts, but I never pay attention to them. That's my point. I guess I've read here long enough to know to disregard them. But it can be confusing. If a single can of one variety or flavor says to feed 2 cans per day, in order for another variety or other flavor and differing ingredients to keep to the 2 can per day allowance, one or the other has to either add water, remove fat, add fiber/carbs etc etc to make the calorie intake exactly the same. Does that make sense? If they muck with one flavor so that the calorie content matches the other, one might not be palatable. Look at the calorie content to make the decision on how much to feed. You also have to allow for the activity level of the cat being fed. I had a cat who required a certain amount of calories per day for his liver to heal from hepatic lipidosis. I found an online KCAL calculator that told you exact number of MGs, ounces or even MLs to feed per day to get that correct intake based on the severity of illness. Most people don't need this to be so exact. I like what William Hamblen just wrote - put the food down for a certain amount of time, what they don't eat is too much food put down. Adjust from there. SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields heh I got ya : ) I never thought about the flavor issues and things you brought up. Guess I wont be so upset at the manufacturers then! > > We're getting closer... I will tell you what I read and maybe > > that will work! The label on one tin said "feed 1 1/2 cans per [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > of time, what they don't eat is too much food put down. Adjust from > there. > We're getting closer... I will tell you what I read and maybe that will > work! The label on one tin said "feed 1 1/2 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight > for an adult cat" while the next one said "feed 2 cans per 6-8 lbs body > weight" and yet another said "feed 3 cans per 6-8 lbs body weight" - Disregard label recommendations- they don't take into consideration sex status, activity level, indoor/outdoor, age-associated changes, or risk factor management. Right off the bat, neutered cats require about 33% less calories a day than intact cats, inactive cats also require less calories. Label recommendations are responsible for many overweight cats There's no one-size-fits-all diet for cats. Nutritional management should be based on the individual cat's needs and circumstances. Here's a simple formula you can use as a guide- or starting point for a good nutritional management program. From here you'll have to fine tune the diet to your individual cat's needs: Weigh your cat and keep a record of her weight and diet (food and amount and feeding pattern. Then, assign a body condition score according to this chart: http://maxshouse.com/nutrition/Body_Scoring_System-Chart.jpg Start your cat's nutritional management program by feeding ~45 kcals/kg/day (assuming your cat is neutered). You may need to contact the petfood mfg. for the energy density (kcals/g or kcals/can or cup), "as fed" % protein, % fat, and % carbs of the diet you're feeding. For example, Science Diet Adult Turkey contains 95 kcal/ 3 oz (85 g) can and 174 kcal/ 5.5 oz (156 g) can. An 'average' 4 kg, neutered, indoor, moderate-to inactive cat has a daily energy requirement (DER) of about 180 kcals. So, one 5.5 oz can (174 kcals) divided into 2 or 3 feedings should be just about right and a good starting point. You don't have to be super critical with serving sizes, but the more accurate you are, the easier it will be to fine tune the diet to reach and maintain your cat's optimum weight. If your cat's DER requires more or less than a can, you might want to weigh the servings until you can judge the amounts to feed. $10-$20 diet scales are accurate enough. Here's a simple formula for determining how much food to feed: Protein= 3.5 kcal/gram; Fat= 8.5 kcal/gram; Carbohydrate= 3.5 kcal/gram. Based on SD Adult Turkey: Multiply the As fed % protein x 3.5 Multiply the As Fed % fat x 8.5 Multiply the As Fed % carb x 3.5 and add the products. e.g., protein: 11%- .11 X 3.5 = 0.385 carbohydrate: 5.7 %- 0.057 X 3.5 = 0.20 fat: 6.2%: 0.065 X 8.5 = 0.553 Caloric Density = 1.138 kcal/gram If your cat has a DER of 225 kcals/day, divide 1.138 into 225 = 198 grams of food - or 1, 5.5 oz can + 1/2, 3 oz can divided into 2 feedings/day. If you decide to weigh the servings, buying the large 12 oz/404 g cans would be much more economical. Just feed 2, 100 g or 3, 65 g servings/day. After you see how much 100 g of food looks like, you won't need the scale. The same formula works for dry food- just different As Fed values. You'll be amazed by how much more volume of dry food needs to be fed to meet the same caloric value - much of which ends up in the ltterbox since dry food isn't as digestible as equal-quality canned food. Best of luck, Phil. I think a normal, healthy, active cat will regulate itself on how much to eat, unless there are other factors, like having to compete with other animals for food, etc. Also, unless they are exclusively indoor cats, they probably eat things that are not "on the menu" while they are out and about. So I guess it is up to us to figure out how much to feed them on an individual basis, realizing some days they won't eat much at all, while other days, they eat everything in sight. My cat gets about half of a 5-1/2 oz can of Friskies every morning, along with dry food on the side and does fine, although she does expect some kind of little treat in the evening. (Probably, this is a nasty side effect from watching too much TV!) :) > I think a normal, healthy, active cat will regulate itself on how much > to eat, unless there are other factors, like having to compete with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > from watching too much TV!) > :) **Hi Gary, I really like your logic about feeding. I feed my 7 month old boy, Dove, anywhere from 2 Lg. (5 oz) sized cans a day/ night, to one Lg size and one small ( Fancy Feast) can. In addiction, I fill a small bowl of dry for him once a day. And give him a small amount of treats. I, pretty much, feed him as much as he wants because he is still, technically, a kitten. He has a hardy appetite, and is not over weight at all, just a growing boy with lots of muscle. I do let him outside to move around, get fresh air/ sunshine, and jump around in my large, privacy fenced backyard for several hours each morning. Of course, I check on him often with my eagle eyes and being the good, protective mother that I am :-). Really, ever since I got him neutered, almost a month ago, he has been much more mellow and domesticated acting ( thank you, God! ;-), always now staying very close and near my house. He will often immediately run to me, just like a well-trained and obedient little dog would do, when I whistle for him. What a good, sweet boy he is :-). ML > I think a normal, healthy, active cat will regulate itself on > how much to eat, unless there are other factors, like having to > compete with other animals for food, etc. If they aren't *obviously* unhealthy and you don't know exactly how much they're eating and when, you might not be clued in on a problem early enough to make a difference. This is particularly true if you have multiple cats. Also, unless they are > exclusively indoor cats, they probably eat things that are not > "on the menu" while they are out and about. So I guess it is up > to us to figure out how much to feed them on an individual > basis, realizing some days they won't eat much at all, while > other days, they eat everything in sight. Good point. Though my 4 don't eat food not "on the menu", sometimes they eat more one day, the next not as much, then back to "normal" and so on. It's when they consistently aren't eating what they used to that should send up red flags. My cat gets about half > of a 5-1/2 oz can of Friskies every morning, along with dry food > on the side and does fine, although she does expect some kind > of little treat in the evening. (Probably, this is a nasty side > effect from watching too much TV!) > :) Sounds like a good amount to me. :) I think the key is finding a variety of foods whether it be wet, dry, combo, that keeps the cat at an even weight. Shamrock for example weighs 11 pounds. He weighed 11 pounds when I adopted him, and every checkup he weighs 11 pounds. If only every cat were as regulated as him! :) SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields > > I think a normal, healthy, active cat will regulate itself on > > how much to eat, unless there are other factors, like having to > > compete with other animals for food, etc. >snipped,< Sounds like a good amount to me. :) I think the key is finding a > variety of foods whether it be wet, dry, combo, that keeps the cat > at an even weight. Shamrock for example weighs 11 pounds. He > weighed 11 pounds when I adopted him, and every checkup he weighs > 11 pounds. If only every cat were as regulated as him! :) Chloe weighed about 11 pounds when we got her 6 months ago and still does, sleeping most of the day. She has been tried on most of the tinned foods and after one meal has rejected most of them. She stays indoors most days so no feral food and seems almost to pick at her meals yet does one good tray dump a day and the vet comments well on her fine coat and lack of illnesses. Perhaps we humans fret too much. A cat will indicate if hungry and take food if wanted. In the wild cats gorge themselves stupid then eat nothing for days. If Chloe felt starved she would soon leave our home for a better one. She now guards her territory in the garden and will advance on larger intruders so she obviously doesn't feel unfit. Icedog. > I think a normal, healthy, active cat will regulate itself on how much to > eat, unless there are other factors, like having to compete with other [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > TV!) > :) How can you tell if they are self regulating their food as opposed to simply not liking canned meat? I ask because we have recently switched from dry food to wet, due to them both being over weight. We have been giving them about 6-7 oz each in 2 "sittings", however they never finish their bowls and often we are throwing about half of what was put down before we give them their next portion. They certainly don't seem to be going hungry as they don't pester us like they used to when they wanted more dry food. They ARE losing weight, but I'm worried they are doing so because they aren't eating enough because of their dislike of wet food. Any thoughts, or am I worrying for nothing? SignatureSteve. scook94atGmaildotCom > How can you tell if they are self regulating their food as opposed to > simply not liking canned meat? I ask because we have recently switched [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > their dislike of wet food. > Any thoughts, or am I worrying for nothing? Put down less and see what happens. Hodge gets 1/3 of a can in the morning and 1/4 dry at night, and seems to be positively glowing with health -- good fur, good tone, good energy. 6-7 oz. seems like a lot to me, but I'm not scientific about it. Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/ > How can you tell if they are self regulating their food as opposed to > simply not liking canned meat? I ask because we have recently switched [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > their dislike of wet food. > Any thoughts, or am I worrying for nothing? The same thing happened when I took Buddha off of dry food--she threw up the wet and did not finish it. Now she eats every bit and begs for more, and like your cats, she is losing weight. I think 6-7 oz per cat in one sitting is the reason they are leaving food. That is a lot of food. How big are these cats, and how active are they? How old are they? If they are 10-lb cats (or that is the weight you think they should be) I would think something like 5 oz per cat per feeding might be adequate, particularly if you want them to lose weight. In any case, they are not going to self-regulate in the direction of too LITTLE food. They would be more inclined to eat more than they need. And if the wet is all they have and they are hungry, they will eat it. marys@catlover.com wrote: >If they are 10-lb cats (or that is the >weight you think they should be) I would >think something like 5 oz per cat per >feeding might be adequate, particularly if >you want them to lose weight. Feeding a cat according to your suggestion will make it gain weight, not lose. 5 oz of food is pretty much an entire can, and feeding that much twice a day is close to, and in some instances more than double, the caloric intake an average 10 pound indoor cat would need. Again, you obviously need reminding that you shouldn't post information when you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > marys@catlover.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > obviously need reminding that you shouldn't post information when you > clearly don't know what you're talking about. Well, you Merry Maid you, the fact is, 5 oz twice a day is less than the OP is feeding them now, so it would be a step in the right direction. Now f.ck off like a good little sexually frustrated toilet cleaning collector. :) >the fact is, 5 oz twice a day is less than >the OP is feeding them now, so it would >be a step in the right direction. It is NOT a step in the right direction as the amount you recommended will still cause weight gain, which is exactly the opposite of what the OP is trying to achieve. You have a great way of underlining your own stupidity. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > >the fact is, 5 oz twice a day is less than > >the OP is feeding them now, so it would [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > will still cause weight gain, which is exactly the opposite of what the > OP is trying to achieve. This when you have no idea of the size, age, or physical condition of the cats in question. Right. You have a great way of underlining your own > stupidity. Oh, yeah, that's what's going on here. :) marys@catlover.com wrote: >This when you have no idea of the size, >age, or physical condition of the cats in >question.. And? I was responding to your incorrect information.You made your bogus calculation based on a 10 pound weight. If the OP follows your math and adjusts to fit the weight of their own cats, you're still wrong. >You have a great way of underlining your >own stupidity. >Oh, yeah, that's what's going on here. :) Well at least you finally admit it. Now if you'll just seek help... Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray Ok I didnt want to start another flame war! Oreo and Gabe are getting a 5.5 oz can/day each along with a 'tasty treat' (as my husband calls it) of a Whiskas moist packet (the ones with chunks of meat) to split between them. We just started going to a moist diet so of course we will be alterting it based on the cats needs... if they need a little more, then I will give it to them but I dont think giving them less is an option with their sizes. They both know how to get our attention when they are hungry, so I dont think they will starve : ) It was a good guide to go off to see everyones suggestions and also to see how specific some people have to be with their cat's diets. Luckily we dont have that route with them right now, but if they ever have a medial issue, I will know its a pretty normal thing to do if the vet suggests it to us. > marys@catlover.com wrote: > >This when you have no idea of the size, [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > - W.H. Murray > Ok I didnt want to start another flame war! Not to worry, Megan is self-starting. My recommendation was a reply to Steve C., who wrote: > On Fri, 13 May 2005 17:08:09 -0700, Gary wrote: > > > I think a normal, healthy, active cat will regulate itself on how much to > > eat, unless there are other factors, like having to compete with other > > animals for food, etc. Also, unless they are exclusively indoor cats, > > they probably eat things that are not "on the menu" while they are out and > > about. So I guess it is up to us to figure out how much to feed them on > > an individual basis, realizing some days they won't eat much at all, while > > other days, they eat everything in sight. My cat gets about half of a > > 5-1/2 oz can of Friskies every morning, along with dry food on the side [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > their dislike of wet food. > Any thoughts, or am I worrying for nothing? Since he is giving his cats 6-7 oz per cat per feedings and they are not eating all of that food, plus he wants them to lose weight, my recommendation was that he reduce those feedings to 5 oz each per cat--and that is just if he has an average sized cat. > marys@catlover.com wrote: > >This when you have no idea of the size, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > calculation based on a 10 pound weight. If the OP follows your math and > adjusts to fit the weight of their own cats, you're still wrong. Nonsense, Megan. You are merely arguing made-up assumptions. Certainly the very first thing for him to do is to reduce the amount they are being fed. How do you stand walking around with so much egg on your face? You know, for people trying to get decent information from this group, it is possible to make a useful comment without the useless "catty" remarks that get added on. Christine > > marys@catlover.com wrote: > > >This when you have no idea of the size, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > How do you stand walking around with so much egg on > your face? > You know, for people trying to get decent information from this group, it is > possible to make a useful comment without the useless "catty" remarks that > get added on. Right. Useful replies without "catty remarks" is not possible when any woman other than Lyn, Kaeli, and perhaps Megan responds. (INCOMING!!!!) > You know, for people trying to get decent information from this > group, it is possible to make a useful comment without the useless [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >> How do you stand walking around with so much egg on >> your face? >You are merely arguing made-up >assumptions. You seem to forget that you made up the assumptions. >Certainly the very first thing for him to do >is to reduce the amount they are being >fed. And, as I've tried to explain to you before, reducing amounts will make no difference if the total calorie intake is still higher than what the cat requires. I realize that you have trouble grasping simple concepts, but this is just sad. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > marys@catlover.com wrote: > >This when you have no idea of the size, > >age, or physical condition of the cats in > >question.. > > And? And here is Steve's post, to which I was responding. Note, you dimwitted hag, that he says that his cats ARE LOSING WEIGHT on the two 6-7 oz feedings per cat per day of canned food that he is giving them, but they are leaving food uneaten at each sitting. Given this, the recommendation to give them 5 oz each at each feeding makes perfect sense. I really wish you had done something in your life that would have given you some sense of accomplishment, so that you would not have to puff up like a bloody iguana in the cat groups insisting on your Unchallenged Expertise. But then, it is comical to watch. "Steve C" <seemysig@bottom.for.email> wrote > > How can you tell if they are self regulating their food as opposed to > simply not liking canned meat? I ask because we have recently switched [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > their dislike of wet food. > Any thoughts, or am I worrying for nothing? marys@catlover.com wrote: >he says that his cats ARE LOSING >WEIGHT on the two 6-7 oz feedings per [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >recommendation to give them 5 oz each >at each feeding makes perfect sense. No, it doesn't. Read again. He said they are leaving *half* the food uneaten and are showing no signs of hunger in between meals. That means they are doing well on about 3 oz of food twice a day, so it makes perfect sense to use that amount and see how things go. Why on earth would you recommend feeding 5 oz per meal to each cat when it will obviously go to waste? Quit while you're ahead. When it comes to cats you're clueless. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > marys@catlover.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > would you recommend feeding 5 oz per meal to each cat when it will > obviously go to waste? You know what? There are people here who actually read the posts. So they see what he said and what I said, you ignorant a.shole. Steve admitted that he was not clear and that his message implied that he was feeding 6-7 ounces to each cat twice a day. In other words 12-14 ounces a day. So yes, of course it makes sense for me to suggest reducing that to 10 ounces a day. Steve later clarified that he is feeding them a total pf 6-7 ounces per cat per day split into two meals, and that is a different story. People who finished high school can actually read the posts, you pathetic, dried up failure. You have such a muddy little brain. Try to use it more for more producting things than trying to justify your miserable existence on this earth. You are a waste of oxygen, and I do not believe that 23 cats can have happy lives in that dingy little apartment. You are indeed a collector. One day you will go over the edge. You appear quite close to it now. Why not find homes for half your cats? Homes in which they can actually move without bumping into a cage or another cat? >Quit while you're ahead. When it comes to cats > you're clueless. Yes, yes, you are the Expert. Don't worry. Poor Megan. marys@catlover.com wrote: > You know what? There are people here > who actually read the posts. And you are not one of them. If you were you would know to use a syringe to give your cat water and not risk aspiration by trying to pour it down her throat from a juice glass. If you were you'd know what a perineal urethrostomy is as it has been discussed here numerous times. If you were you'd know how many cats I have. And the list goes on. And on. And on. >Steve admitted that he > was not clear and that his message [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > makes sense for me to suggest reducing > that to 10 ounces a day. We've already covered this and your recommendation was still wrong. Maybe you should read the posts. > You have such a muddy little brain. Try > to use it more for more producting >things I don't think that someone that uses "producting" in the above sentence should be making accusations about the muddiness of other people's brains... Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > marys@catlover.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > If you were you'd know how many cats I have. And the list goes on. And > on. And on. Now just a second. I said "read the posts," not "read ALL of the posts." I don't read your posts, for example, unless you are addressing me or you butt in with your usual bullshit. Because it is all about Aggrandizing Megan the illiterate collector. And it is not hard to splash a little water into a cat's mouth to make sure her pill goes down easily without suffocating her--unless you have the kind of big, hammy hands that are more accustomed to scrubbing floors. > >Steve admitted that he > > was not clear and that his message [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > We've already covered this and your recommendation was still wrong. > Maybe you should read the posts. Hee. Do you imagine that this is anything but totally transparent? Your days of covering your ignorance and neurotic insistance on being right about everything by blustering and posturing and obfuscating the facts with creative snipping are over, old girl. > > You have such a muddy little brain. Try > > to use it more for more producting [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > should be making accusations about the muddiness of other people's > brains... The typo lame is the last refuge of the desperate. You fat, undereducated, overblown self-aggrandizing freak of a toilet-cleaning cat collector. Now then, let's talk about why you will not consider getting some of those 23 cats homes where they can live normally and not in cages in your 1-bedroom ghetto suite. For some reason you snipped that question from my original post. :) marys@catlover.com wrote: <snip lies and projection> You again show your desperation and do more damage to yourself with your own words. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > The same thing happened when I took Buddha off of dry food--she threw up > the wet and did not finish it. Now she eats every bit and begs for more, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > food. They would be more inclined to eat more than they need. And if the > wet is all they have and they are hungry, they will eat it. Sorry, I didn't make myself clear, they get 6-7oz per day, split over 2 meals, not 6-7 oz per meal. They are 9 years old, we got them from a rescue home about 18 months ago and although they do get outside they don't wander far, so I wouldn't say they are particularly active. SignatureSteve. scook94atGmaildotCom > > The same thing happened when I took Buddha off of dry food--she threw up > > the wet and did not finish it. Now she eats every bit and begs for more, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Sorry, I didn't make myself clear, they get 6-7oz per day, split over 2 > meals, not 6-7 oz per meal. Ah, I see! I am feeding Buddha about 5 ounces per day, split into three meals. > They are 9 years old, we got them from a rescue home about 18 months ago > and although they do get outside they don't wander far, so I wouldn't say > they are particularly active. I think maybe cutting them back to 5 oz per day might help. >> > The same thing happened when I took Buddha off of dry food--she threw >> > up the wet and did not finish it. Now she eats every bit and begs for [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> > I think maybe cutting them back to 5 oz per day might help. Thanks Mary, I'm coming to the conclusion that they are being put off by too much in the bowl at once, I'm going to try 1.5-2 oz three times a day and see how they get on. I didn't mean to start a flame war either, sorry. :oP SignatureSteve. scook94atGmaildotCom > >> > The same thing happened when I took Buddha off of dry food--she threw > >> > up the wet and did not finish it. Now she eats every bit and begs for [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > the bowl at once, I'm going to try 1.5-2 oz three times a day and see how > they get on. I hope it works for them. It is working for Buddha. >I didn't mean to start a flame war either, sorry. :oP Honey, it is not you, believe me! 8) Let us know how it works out. Many of us have problems with overweight cats. "Steve C" <seemysig@bottom.for.email> wrote in message > Sorry, I didn't make myself clear, they get 6-7oz per day, split over 2 > meals, not 6-7 oz per meal. > They are 9 years old, we got them from a rescue home about 18 months ago > and although they do get outside they don't wander far, so I wouldn't say > they are particularly active. How much do they weigh? Phil > "Steve C" <seemysig@bottom.for.email> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Phil Phil, I've not been very successful at getting them weighed on our bathroom scales, however, judging on your Body Scoring System Chart they would compare best to the picture next to the 7 rating. They were half way between this picture and the one below it before starting them on their "diet" at the beginning of the year. SignatureSteve. scook94atGmaildotCom > > "Steve C" <seemysig@bottom.for.email> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I've not been very successful at getting them weighed on our bathroom > scales, Steve, Toss a few of their favorite treats on the scale. The cat should jump on the scale to get them. http://maxshouse.com/weighing_a_cat_made_easy.htm If your cats are large and don't have enough room to eat the treats while they're on the scale, place the scale in a corner a few inches from the far wall, and place the side of the scale flush against the other wall. Put a waste basket against the other side of the scale so the cat will have to get on the scale to get to the treats. Leave just enough room between the scale and the wall for your cat to get at the treats- Be sure to turn the scale around so the dial is facing you and not the wall- otherwise, you can't read the dial. Here's one of my cats waiting for her treats: http://maxshouse.com/album/Titi-on-scale.jpg Another method is to start feeding your cats on the scale- actually put the food bowls on the scale. After a few days, they should run to the scale and jump on waiting for you at feeding time. Either method requires absolutely no force or restraint- although you might have to nudge a leg to get it back on the scale. ;-) I use human pediatric scales with auto weight lock in. The Tanita 1583 is accurate down to .5 oz. from zero to 20 lbs. (0-10 kg X 10 g) and 1 oz. from 20 to 40 lbs. (10-20 kg X 20 g)- which is accurate enough for general weight monitoring. My Tanita BLB-12 is accurate down to .1 oz. from zero to 12 lbs. and .2 oz. from 12 to 24 pounds. I need the smaller weight graduations for monitoring the cat's weight during fluid therapy. however, judging on your Body Scoring System Chart they would > compare best to the picture next to the 7 rating. They were half way > between this picture and the one below it before starting them on their > "diet" at the beginning of the year. According to the chart, they would be BCS 8- which is obese- which doesn't mean untreatable- just that it will take a little longer to get them down to a healthier weight. Weight loss in cats a slow (and frustrating) process that takes patience and dedication. A good pediatric scale such as the Tanita 1583 detects slight weight losses that aren't noticible by eye- this helps reduce frustration and provides encouragement because the cat may be losing weight very slowly even though you can't see it and the bathroom scale doesn't detect it. Phil [snip] Thanks for the tips Phil, I'll give them a try! SignatureSteve. scook94atGmaildotCom > [snip] > > Thanks for the tips Phil, I'll give them a try! If you can't get a pediatric scale right away, and just want to get a good idea of their weight, just weigh yourself on your bathroom scale and then weigh yourself holding the cat on your bathroom scale, then subtract the difference. Again, this isn't accurate down to the ounce, but you'll get an idea of what they weigh until you can either weigh them at your vet's office or get a pediatric scale. It's *not* good for monitoring weight loss over time, because you want your cat to lose weight slowly enough to stay healthy - which means monitoring ounces lost. Hugs, CatNipped "Steve C" <seemysig@bottom.for.email> wrote in message > How can you tell if they are self regulating their food as opposed to > simply not liking canned meat? I ask because we have recently switched [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > their dislike of wet food. > Any thoughts, or am I worrying for nothing? Generally, if a cat doesn't like a food, she won't eat it. The fact they eat the food at every feeding means they accept the food. One of reasons why they eat so little at each feeding may be because they're used to grazing- taking little nibbles throughout the day. Adjusting to meal-feeding and eating a larger serving per feeding may take a couple of weeks. Just make sure they keep eating! Overweight or obese cats can develop a very serious liver disease (hepatic lipidosis) if they suddenly stop eating. Actually, you don't really want to feed a very palatable diet to your cats. Exceptionally palatable diets often override the cat's satiety cues and makes them eat or beg for more food even after their energy needs have been met. Many cats that always seem hungry really aren't- they want more food because it tastes so good. Phil > "Steve C" <seemysig@bottom.for.email> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > met. Many cats that always seem hungry really aren't- they want more food > because it tastes so good. Good point. Conversely, it has been suggested that when cats are given a food that is not satisfying, such as the Iams dry "diet" cat food Buddha was on, they will keep eating trying to get satisfied and overeat. I truly believe that this is what happened to her in our first attempt to reduce her weight. The introduction of canned food (just half a small can a day in addition to her dry, which we reduced the portion of) made her eat less of the dry we put down, even though we were putting less dry down, if that makes sense. And, her coat became healthier and shinier and she just seemed happier eating canned. All cats are different, of course you YMMV. I guess what we are trying for is a happy medium--a food that satisfies without overstimulating their appetites. > Isnt there some type of standard these manufacturers are held to? No. I'd just use the empirical method. Put the food down for about a half hour. If there are a lot of left-overs you put down too much. > I had to laugh when I was at the grocery store not a half hour ago. I > stopped at the cat food isle (cant let Gabers and Oreo starve!!) and decided [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 'premium' or 'gravy' or 'sliced cuts' but the only difference was flavor. > Isnt there some type of standard these manufacturers are held to? I free feed my cat and let her self-regulation mechanism take care of the amounts. At 18 lbs she is not fat as that is normal for her breed. Some cats have a faulty self-regulation mechanism and are prone to overeating, and do become fat. It is with those animals that one must regulate the amount of food. All of this assumes a normal healthy cat in every other respect. "Joe Canuck" <Joe.Canuck@-remove-gmail.com> wrote : > I free feed my cat and let her self-regulation mechanism take care of > the amounts. At 18 lbs she is not fat as that is normal for her breed. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > All of this assumes a normal healthy cat in every other respect. All true in my experience. Buddha is the first cat I have had to regulate. She would (and apparently did, before we got her) eat non-stop if she were allowed to. > I had to laugh when I was at the grocery store not a half hour ago. I > stopped at the cat food isle (cant let Gabers and Oreo starve!!) and decided [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 'premium' or 'gravy' or 'sliced cuts' but the only difference was flavor. > Isnt there some type of standard these manufacturers are held to? Blueberries, There is a "standard" but that may not be much help. Under AAFCO guidelines a manufacturer must suggest a feeding amount that will provide sufficient calories for the 80th percentile. Imagine a bell graph. A typical bell shape curve. If you can imagine a vertical line about 4/5th of the way along the curve. (I wish I could put a graphic here) Those cats on the left side of the line will be getting too much food, those on the right getting too little. Thus the AAFCO regs pretty much require an overfeed for 79% of the cats and an underfeed for 20% of the cats. AAFCO thinking is that this will insure most pet owners feed an adequate amount to most cats. The AAFCO rules are then compounded by the caloric density of the food. Foods can range very widely in terms of the number of calories per can or per ounce. Assuming you have a 5.5 oz can. One food which contains 91 calories per ounce versus another that contains 139 calories per ounce. The difference is really significant. The same 5.5 ounce can could contain anywhere from 500 calories to 765 calories. Thus the AAFCO regs pretty > much require an overfeed for 79% of the cats and an underfeed for 20% I heard it was more like 79.8% of the cats...lol but no matter, Im sure it's been brought up already... I reckon depending on the time of the year, and just what the cat did that day you know. If he chased mice all day, he might want a little mo If he shlepped around all day...he might need a little less My friend and me, used to go trapesing up a steep wooded hill behind his house, his two cats would follow, always about 5 mins behind. One was older one was young. They would follow for about 100 yards up the hill. (not to mention, at least 75 yards across the back yard)...a good little workout for all of us. A cat will follow, they just lag behind. Im saying this in case someone lives where they can free-style excerise thier cat. (talking about food and weight) Thanks Steve, that was exactly what I was wondering... it makes sense where they are coming from too since I doubt many cat owners really pay that close of attention about their cats food needs, so at least this way cats arent being starved. > > I had to laugh when I was at the grocery store not a half hour ago. > I [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > calories per ounce. The difference is really significant. The same 5.5 > ounce can could contain anywhere from 500 calories to 765 calories. |
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