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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / September 2003Let cat outside or keep it in?
Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life, he has never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he could get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside. Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded and brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now? Well, we have been letting him outside for a couple of months (since the spring, when we bought the house). He LOVES going outside and prowling around. If we don't let him outside, he raises a ruckus by meowing and pawing at the door, etc. In general, he is much better behaved and happier if he is let outside at least a few hours per day. But we have some concerns with letting him outside. Since he wants to spend hours per day outside, we can't supervise him. At first, he would just rove around the backyard and into the woods a little bit. Now, he has gotten bolder and I suspect is straying into neighbor's lots and perhaps even across the road. All of which is dangerous to the cat and not fair to the neighbors. We like to let him in before we go to bed, but who knows where he is; he comes prowling back in when he is good and ready. About two weeks ago, he did not come back in until early the next morning, which is quite unusual; he is usually back by nightfall. He was also injured - he either fell from a height and landed the wrong way, or someone / something hit him. While recovering, we kept him inside. He is now recovered, and we need to decide if we should give in and let him play outside. How can we limit his territory outside to our property, and away from the road and other hazards? And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy). Thanks for any ideas, Tman. > Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life, he has > never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he could [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Thanks for any ideas, > Tman. I would keep him inside. Cats adjust well, and indoor cats generally have a much longer life span. However, you do have plenty of room to build an outdoor pen. That might be a good compromise if you can make one with plenty of space and some climbing areas, such as cat trees. MaryL << And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy). Thanks for any ideas, Tma >> In the US, it is now pretty much considered that it is best to keep cats inside or only allow them outside in a secure enclosure or on a harness and leash. You already have learned one of the reasons why and you're lucky that it wasn't worse. He could easily go into the woods and have a predator get him or a bad human or a car since you say you think he crosses the road. Maybe you could build him some sort of run with a top on it and a kitty door so he could go out in his run whenever he wanted to commune with nature. Now that you've had him inside for awhile, I personally think it's best that you keep it that way. If he's sort of docile, you might be able to train him to a harness and leash. Many cats will do it, especially if they know it's the only way to get outside. If he has a lot of windows and toys inside, he should adapt to the indoor life again with time. I really wish I had a screened porch for my cats but I don't. Someday. To me, that would be ideal. Do you have that or could you get one built? If not that, try a run. I know some people who post here have done that and some have pics of them on their websites so, hopefully, one of them will answer you. You can't get a cat to dependably return when you want them to. Candace (take the litter out before replying by e-mail) See my cats: http://photos.yahoo.com/maccandace I agree with the advice so far. A friend lost four (count 'em) cats to predators; even after losing the first (to a coyote), she felt it wasn't "fair" to the other cats to make them stay inside. Now she has no cats. My own cat was a feral cat for the first year of his life; when I brought him home at first he complained about having to stay indoors, but after a few months he stopped complaining, and indeed seems quite happy and fit as an indoor cat. He sits in the (screened-in) window when he wants to get his nature fix. He's now 13; I suspect that if I'd given in and let him out, he'd be long dead/lost/whatever. Good luck with making your decision...but I hope you do decide to keep your cat close to the house or indoors. > He sits in the (screened-in) window when he wants to get his nature > fix. I tuned in a National Geographic special on tigers once for my own viewing, and soon found the late, beloved, and generally very gentle Pudge standing on her hind legs, wapping at the screen, and hissing and yowling. I offered to find her some live tigers to play with. :) I rarely watch TV any more, and then mainly Star Trek, so am not sure if Hodge would be into it. Might have to get one of those TV for cats tapes . . .  Signaturehttp://www.mindspring.com/~slywy/ http://slywy.diaryland.com/ >And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to >come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or >should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy). > >Thanks for any ideas, >Tman. 1. I would definitely keep him indoors.Its way too dangerous outdoors. 2. If you or your family will be outside (eg doing gardening, etc) then I'd also let him out but it would be better to have him on a leash or somewhat. - one of those extended leashes. This is so that you can "control" his distance from you, where he goes and importantly you can retrieve him when its time to go back in. 3. Now that he loves the outdoors, be very careful that all exits to the outside is secured and make sure family members are careful too. >>And how can we get him to dependably return when it is time to >>come in for the night? Or is it OK to leave him out for the night? Or >>should we just keep him inside (he won't be happy). Keep him indoors. One and a half acres isn't enough space to keep him out of trouble, especially if the land surrounding yours contains neighbors and traffic. Even in the most remote areas, I'd never let mine outdoors at night because of predators. An enclosure would be great for him though. Sherry > If we don't let him outside, he raises a ruckus by meowing and > pawing at the door, etc. In general, he is much better behaved and > happier if he is let outside at least a few hours per day. My cat does the same thing to the closet he knows Da Bird is in. But I haven't locked him into it yet. :) I'm very against letting cats go outdoors. Bad for the cat, bad for wildlife. Bad all around. IMO. Signaturehttp://www.mindspring.com/~slywy/ http://slywy.diaryland.com/ > Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life, he has > never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he could > get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside. > > Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded and > brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now? Now that you own your own home with plenty of land, why not give him the best of both worlds by building a protected, outdoor enclosure that he can access anytime from indoors. http://www.just4cats.com/ http://www.just4cats.com/post1.html http://www.just4cats.com/page7.html Phil http://www.maxshouse.com/outdoor_risks.htm http://www.maxshouse.com/Healthy+Happy_Indoors.htm Hi , You can try not feeding him before you let him out in the morning . In a higher density area he wouild probably travel less far but he has a large area to patrol and no rivals. being in the UK I'm a great believer in letting cats out but I would be worried in a situation where he was out in the woods at night . However it would be very distressing to shut a cat in all the time after he has grown used to his freedom I think it would be best if you could fence of a part of your land next or attached to your house for him . www.friendlyfence.com (Thanks to Cheryl for this link ) -- Alison Rescues. http://mysite.freeserve.com/AnimalRescueLinksUK/ Links to animal information websites http://mysite.freeserve.com/petinfolinks/ > Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life, he has > never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he could [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > Thanks for any ideas, > Tman. You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by never letting him out of the house. You could do the same with your children, but you would be charged with extreme cruelty and be sent to prison. It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment buildings and have never seen the outside world. Many tigers have been born and raised in zoos and have never seen the jungle or hunted prey. Are they better off as living museum pieces to be oggled by spectators, than as wild beasts in the jungle? They are protected from hunters, diseases and other hazards but is their overall quality of life better in captivity? Will your cat be happy locked in the house? > You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by > never letting him out of the house. You could do the same with your [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Will your cat be happy locked in the house? A lot happier than he will be getting chased by dogs, fighting with other cats, eating poisonous things left by careless people, getting hit by a car, getting hurt by a cruel person, or getting an infectious disease from another cat. He'll live a lot longer, be healthier, and get injured less. It is no more cruel to keep your cat in your own yard than it is to keep your dog there. If you feel a cat must go outside, keep it in your yard (garden), on your property. You cat belongs on your neighbor's lawn as much as your dog or cow does - which is to say, it doesn't. A cat is a domestic animal. A tiger is not. You cannot compare an animal that has been a pet for over 2000 years to a wild species. A cat is not a child. What is cruel to one is not cruel to another. You don't make your kid eat out of a bowl on the floor, do you? It is cruel to keep a child (toddler) locked in the house - it is a felony to let it wander about unsupervised to be hurt by the myriad dangers that abound. Neither pet nor young child should be off their property unsupervised. Period. As to happiness, my kids would be a lot happier eating ice cream and McDonald's every day, staying up until midnight, and playing video games instead of going to school. It would be cruel and neglectful of me to let them. My cat might be happier wandering outside unattended, but it would be just as cruel and neglectful for me to let them. ------------------------------------------------- ~kaeli~ Hey, if you got it flaunt it! If you don't, stare at someone who does. Just don't lick the TV screen, it leaves streaks. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace ------------------------------------------------- > It is no more cruel to keep your cat in your own yard than it is to keep > your dog there. But dogs get taken for proper walks . Also, bear in mind that many people live in condos and don't have yards or sometimes people can't /won't fence their yards so the cat is restricted to a very limited area . The problem is that there is this fanaticism to pressurise and even force people to keep cats in and the owners don't have the knowledge to keep their cats happy . One young man didn't even know cats like to climb , he also asked about declawing becuase the cat scratched the furniture. He didn't even have a scratching post ! Imagine how often that scenrio is played all over Northern America. You might like to think how many cats are abandoned in the streets or dumped at shelters because of "behaviour problems " which is usually normal cat behaviour . How many of these end up dead? I don't believe that every cat should be kept in and every cat should go out but every owner should weigh up the pros and cons and do the best they can to make their cat happy. Alison > ------------------------------------------------- > ~kaeli~ [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > ------------------------------------------------- >You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by >never letting him out of the house. You could do the same with your >children, but you would be charged with extreme cruelty and be sent to >prison. If you can't tell the difference between a cat and a child you shouldn't be offering advice. > >You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by > >never letting him out of the house. You could do the same with your [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > If you can't tell the difference between a cat and a child you > shouldn't be offering advice. It's called anthropomorphism. It can be a dangerous thing. Signaturehttp://www.mindspring.com/~slywy/ http://slywy.diaryland.com/ >>> You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and >>> predators by never letting him out of the house. You could do the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > It's called anthropomorphism. It can be a dangerous thing. There are a lot of those here in these groups. Sad. Phar Kemal muses >...Many tigers have been born and >raised in zoos and have never >seen the jungle or hunted prey....etc. Cats have been domesticated for thousands of years. Tigers have never been considered as house pets and have a totally different ideology in every way possible. Your comparison doesn't even begin to make sense. Cats do not posess reading ability and have no way to tell the difference between a "walk" and "don't walk" sign. Cats do not know the difference between a red or green traffic light nor can they access traffic patterns. Outside cats are hit/run over by cars all the time. No..not every 5 minutes, but enough to question the wisdom of allowing cats to roam outside. Cats do consume/drink toxic substances. Currently, products such as anti-freeze/coolant that leak out of cars are pleasant tasting..and deadly. Cats do not always escape from the jaws of large dogs nor do they always get away from other outside animals that bite. As I posted 40-50 times before, every episode of Emergency Vets (on Animal Planet) shows one or more tragic stories about a pet cat who was allowed to go outside. Cat hit by car, cat dying from poison, cat dying from internal bleeding/animal bites etc. Unfortunately, there is no FAQ or autopost that could repeat this information on a regular basis. What must be done is to chant the same thing over and over when a person ambles over to a newsgroup to insist cats belong outside. I understand the dangers and differences between the US and Uk but if it is that dangerous in the US how come you have such a bad feral and stray cat problem? Alison > . Outside cats are hit/run > over by cars all the time. No..not every 5 minutes, but enough to question the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the same thing over and over when a person ambles over to a newsgroup to insist > cats belong outside. > I understand the dangers and differences between the US and Uk but > if it is that dangerous in the US how come you have such a bad > feral and stray cat problem? > Alison Very good question, and it sort of defies reason. But in my area, I see a dead cat on the road probably once a week. I guess it is just the rate that cats can reproduce that keeps them from becoming extinct. I cringe every day when I drive up close to my house hoping that I don't see one of "mine" gone. These two stay close to home, though. I'd like to think my own indoor cats would be the same way but they don't have streetsmarts and already *know* they have a home to come back to if they decide to wander and these strays just know where the food is and probably don't want to be "replaced". Hi Cheryl, My comment was a bit tongue in cheek really . I peeved when I read some at the things they put on some websites and everyone else quotes it . The inpression I have of America is that the streets are full of cat killing dogs, giant puddles full of antifreeze and mass poisoners . LOL But I appreciate the risk are greater in the US than the UK . Feral cats seem to be more at risk from traffic than pet cats , maybe its because they have further to travel for food etc and/ or maybe they don't fear cars as much as domestic cats because they're more used to them having lived by or near roadsides since birth . The biggest risk to UK cats is traffic , I sometimes wonder if its the speed of cars nowadays (they accelerate so fast ) rather than the density and even the width of the road might make a difference , English roads can be very narrow , on my estate on some roads if people don't park half on the pavement ,cars can't get by where as cats have further to cross on US roads. . I've noticed that at busy times with heavy traffic and people on the pavements , say near schools, the cats seem to disappear and come out again when the coast is clear so to speak . I don't know so much about feral cats but cats do tend to stick to their territory if they have everything they want and speutered , they might not feel the need to wander , maybe your cats stay because they like their human slave. bg. Alison -- > > > Very good question, and it sort of defies reason. But in my area, I > see a dead cat on the road probably once a week. I guess it is just [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > to come back to if they decide to wander and these strays just know > where the food is and probably don't want to be "replaced". >Hi Cheryl, > My comment was a bit tongue in cheek really . I peeved when I read >some at the things they put on some websites and everyone else quotes >it . The inpression I have of America is that the streets are full of >cat killing dogs, giant puddles full of antifreeze and mass poisoners >. LOL But I appreciate the risk are greater in the US than the UK . You are correct, though you missed some of the biggest dangers to outside cats in the US -- predation. The US has coyotes (and they've become quite urban), large owls (some of which prey on cats so often that they're on the natural prey list), hawks, eagles, foxes (much larger than UK foxes), and bobcats. Unfortunately, bobcats are so much larger than domestic cats that they see domestics as a food source. I have personally witnessed a Great Horned Owl take a ~10 lb barn cat, killing it instantly and taking it back to the nest, and I live only around 30 minutes from Washington DC. Orchid Orchid's Kitties: http://nik.ascendancy.net/bengalpage Orchid's Guide: http://nik.ascendancy.net/orchid >It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the >way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to >prowl and hunt at night. However, he can be conditioned to live under >various imposed situations. Many urban cats live in high-rise apartment >buildings and have never seen the (snipped big-cat part because it's not the issue) I'm just as much a believer that cats should go outdoors *in a very low-risk area* as anyone. But there just aren't that many areas with no traffic, no neighbors, no roaming dogs. But the beauty of the cat is how very adaptable their are. Yes. Indoor cats are happy. Sherry Yes, well said :) There are other neighbourhoods in other countries though that would be great, I live in the UK and my cat loves the outdoors, she has a bell to minimise the violence as well LOL. I'm currently thinking of some things to put in my garden to make it more interesting for my kittie, she has a lot of fun outside but wouldn't be nice if everyone can see as well :-) Do you know of any websites that have gardens with interesting cat stuff like thin planks with little sluts (DIY term!) as little ladder steps. I'm getting inspiration as I write I better go and draw these out! Sonny > >It's just as cruel to deprive a cat the opportunity to develop in the > >way natural for his species. A cat is a nocturnal predator. He loves to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Sherry here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat garden' http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a :-) > Yes, well said :) > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > > > Sherry > here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat garden' > > http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a > :-) What a kitty! How old was s/he in the later pictures? S/he certainly grew into quite a beautiful cat (from a cute one!)! BTW, just a suggestion, you might want to use a breakaway collar, especially with an indoor/outdoor cat. From what I could tell, your cat's current collar is regular buckle type. If it were to get caught in a tree branch or something similar, kitty might get strangled by his/her own collar. rona Hey, When you say a break-away collar do you mean that part of the collar is made form is elastic? The later pictures was taken about July/Augest and she's was about 1. sonny :) > > here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat garden' > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > rona Here's an example of a break-away collar. This one is from PetSmart and breaks away at the clasp: http://tinyurl.com/nj75 (Sorry about the US patriotic theme. I'm not trying be provincial ... I am on my way to work and just took the time to search under one source. They are available from many companies.) MaryL > Hey, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > > > rona >From: "Mr. Nangla" nangla@nildram.co.uk >here's my garden and my kittie, I'll also try to document the 'cat garden' > >http://community.webshots.com/user/sham126a >:-) Bee is lovely :) She has very beautiful markings. Lauren ________ See my cats: http://community.webshots.com/album/56955940rWhxAe Raw Diet Info: http://www.holisticat.com/drjletter.html http://www.geocities.com/rawfeeders/ForCatsOnly.html Declawing Info: http://www.wholecat.com/articles/claws.htm >I'm currently thinking of some things to put in my garden to make it more >interesting for my kittie, she has a lot of fun outside but wouldn't be nice [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Sonny I think you're limited only by your imagination! Go for it! (And don't forget to post the pictures) Sherry >I'm currently thinking of some things to put in my garden to make it more >interesting for my kittie, she has a lot of fun outside but wouldn't be nice >if everyone can see as well :-) Do you know of any websites that have >gardens with interesting cat stuff like thin planks with little sluts (DIY >term!) as little ladder steps. I'm getting inspiration as I write I better >go and draw these out! We made a little "cat patio" under a lilac bush. Laid some patio pavers (nice and cool to lie on or roll around) and made a small, shallow pool next to it. Our cats also like anything "jungle-like" for hiding and peering out. Hosta works well, also ferns. Plus we have butterfly-attracting plants, because the cats love to watch and chase the butterflies. > You can protect your cat from the dangers of traffic and predators by > never letting him out of the house. That's the general idea... *Protection*. Our cats' safety and well-being are entrusted to us... That means protecting them from unnecessary dangers.... If you have the space, a protected outdoor enclosure provides the cat with the best of both worlds.. You could do the same with your > children, but you would be charged with extreme cruelty and be sent to > prison. You'd be sent to prison for neutering your children, too... Cats are not children and children are not cats... The tail is a dead giveaway.... My cats are indoor cats. I let them out on my deck and they seem to be content with that parameter, the new little kitten, too. I had an outside cat once who adopted us. He stayed with us for more than a year, I guess, but he would cry like his heart was broken if we didn't let him out. He was a tuxedo and we named him Henry. If I called him he'd come running. Then one day he didn't come back, ever again. I searched all over for him. I ended up being the one that was heartbroken. I can't put myself through such pain again. Several years later I met a former neighbor for coffee. She had lived about 6 blocks from me in my development. She had found a tuxedo that sounded like my Henry but I told her my Henry had a yellow collar with a zig zag edge. The cat she found had a yellow collar but a plain edge. I went over to see him anyway and the collar he was wearing actually had a barely visible zig zag edge! Was it my cat? He now lived outside in a doghouse on Jean's deck because he didn't want to be in the house. Jean, a cat nut like me, had about 6 indoor cats and would happily have kept this guy in the house but he didn't want it. Anyway, the year was 1992 and the tuxedo, Henry? was happy where he was. Barb I can only please one person a day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either. Was it my cat? He now lived outside in a doghouse on > Jean's deck because he didn't want to be in the house. Jean, a cat nut like > me, had about 6 indoor cats and would happily have kept this guy in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Barb Hi Barb , I think that sums up the nature of a cat . My cat stays with me because she choses to . No matter what people say about cats being domesticated , they have not changed in body or spirit from their wild ancestors felis silvestris the way dogs have changed from wolves. Alison > Was it my cat? He now lived outside in a doghouse on > > Jean's deck because he didn't want to be in the house. Jean, a cat [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > ancestors felis silvestris the way dogs have changed from wolves. > Alison True, and the funny thing is, all it takes to keep them close is love and attention. We have land, no neighbors before at least 10 min. walk, fields and wood, the best cat "amusement park" around. Yet, they are always close to the house, on or under the balconies, or hanging in the old stable next to the house. Once in a while I see cats that come around from very far, surely they are barn cats, but my cats never get the idea of going off roaming. They are attached to the house because they know we are attached to them. Elaine > Hi, we have a 3 yr. old cat. For the first 2 1/2 yrs. of his life, he has > never been outside... we lived in an apartment, and the closest he could > get was on the second floor porch, with no route to outside. > > Now we own a house with about 1.5 acre or so, a portion of it wooded and > brush. Question is, should we let the cat outside now? <snip> I could have written the above two paragraphs except my cats are 12 and 13. When we moved to this (fenced) property in March, I started letting my one cat who wanted to go out (Peewee), go out supervised - always with me in attendance. As of this past week, it nearly killed him. Despite me watching him, he managed to eat enough grass (and possibly something else) which interacted with a hairball in his system, and caused an intestinal blockage - which has passed, but has exascerbated an underlying condition. I have posted a few posts over the last week, describing his story in this ng, if you're interested. So, from experience, I say, *do not* let your cats outside. A few hours of freedom are not worth the grief and expense I have gone through over the last week. -L. |
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