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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / April 2005"TK" Had a checkup today....Not very good news.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- The vet found that he had a heart murmur, this evening. It wasn't there in August. It's there now. My wife had tears in her eyes as the vet was telling us and, honestly, I wasn't far away from tears either. We lost our last cat to heart failure and it started with the same news, heart murmur. But she was over 20 y.o., TK is only around 2 (we think). Needless to say, we are total wrecks tonight. The checkup started on a bad note when the vet came in and told us that TK had roundworms, again. We thought we got rid of those a year ago. But she said that he could have a chronic worm problem 'cause sometimes the parasite can move into soft tissue and reappear. So I was concerned about that until she listened to his heart, and was taking way too long doing it. So here's the story. She rates the murmur at a 2 or 3 (scale of 6, I believe). But sometimes cats can get a murmur when they're under stress. TK was awfully stressed as he was either trembling or shivering in the exam room (it was cold in there), and we had to wait a while since they were running a little behind schedule. So the vet wants to see him again in 3 weeks to check his heart and see if there's still a murmur. He'll be her first patient of the day so we should be able to go right from the car to the exam room and avoid upsetting him for 45 minutes in a waiting room full of dogs. In the meantime she wants him to have a baby aspirin (81mg) twice a week as a precaution. If the murmur is still there, then we go to x-rays and ultrasound. TK acts healthy enough, running around the house at that "what was that black, furry, flash that just went by?" speed. No shortness of breath. I just can't believe he's developing heart problems. We're trying to stay optimistic, but there's this awful feeling of deja-vu from 4 years ago. That was when I swore I would never love a cat again. Then TK showed up in the back yard last year and that promise went "out the window". Never asked for purrs and prayers before, but we could sure use a couple now. Thanks for being a "shoulder to cry on" for a while. IRL I've got people fooled into thinking I'm a "tough guy". Here, I can be the "real" me. And the "real" me is scared to sh*t, right now. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > same news, heart murmur. But she was over 20 y.o., TK is only > around 2 (we think). Oh no. But aren't murmurs in cats the same as they are in humans-- quite common and usually not dangerous? I am asking, not telling, because I don't really know. At the very least, TK is younger and therefore likely stronger than your older cat was. I am so sorry you got bad news from the vet. Needless to say, we are total wrecks tonight. > The checkup started on a bad note when the vet came in and > told us that TK had roundworms, again. We thought we got rid of [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > was that black, furry, flash that just went by?" speed. No shortness > of breath. I just can't believe he's developing heart problems. Let's hope it really was just that he was upset. Keep all your thoughts on that outcome. > We're trying to stay optimistic, but there's this awful feeling of > deja-vu from 4 years ago. That was when I swore I would never love > a cat again. Then TK showed up in the back yard last year and that > promise went "out the window". > Never asked for purrs and prayers before, but we could sure use a > couple now. I'll keep you and your wife and TK in my prayers. > Thanks for being a "shoulder to cry on" for a while. IRL I've got people > fooled into thinking I'm a "tough guy". Here, I can be the "real" me. > And the "real" me is scared to sh*t, right now. Listen, if I ever get back from the vet with bad news about my little cats I will be the biggest basketcase ever. I have my whole heart wrapped up in them. Try to think good thoughts. Some people believe that if you visualize the results you want coming toward you, every day, it helps bring the desired outcome about. Sometimes I think that might have a bit of truth in it, as fruitcake as that sounds. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> >I'll keep you and your wife and TK in my prayers. Thanks. I do appreciate it. >Some >people believe that if you visualize the results you want >coming toward you, every day, it helps bring the desired >outcome about. Sometimes I think that might have a bit >of truth in it, as fruitcake as that sounds. Unfortunately, as an engineer, I'm a trained pessimist. I tend to think things out from the worst outcome to the best. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Unfortunately, as an engineer, I'm a trained pessimist. I tend > to think things out from the worst outcome to the best. I do too. Still ... > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The checkup started on a bad note when the vet came in and > told us that TK had roundworms, again. <SNIP> You have my purrs & prayers. I did a little reasearch on 'Natural' remedies for heart problems in cats. Hawthorne berry, which is commonly used as a human heart tonic, can also be used for cats. Use a glycerine based tincture (available at your local healthfood store) 8 drops twice daily for a cat under 15 lbs. Also, 10 mg daily of Coenzyme Q10 & feeding your cat fish oil suppliments will both help. As to the worms, does 'TK' spend any time outside? If your cat is hunting, it's real easy to get re-infested. I'm having this issue with Chablis & my vet reccomends de-worming every 2 months. As long as she's catching & eating small creatures, I'll be battling worms. The pills cost pennies each & are 'fairly' easy to administer. Good Luck! Keep us posted. Mathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "Mathew Kagis" <winesnob@telus.net> >You have my purrs & prayers. Thank You. > I did a little reasearch on 'Natural' remedies >for heart problems in cats. Hawthorne berry, which is commonly used as a >human heart tonic, can also be used for cats. Use a glycerine based >tincture (available at your local healthfood store) 8 drops twice daily for >a cat under 15 lbs. Also, 10 mg daily of Coenzyme Q10 & feeding your cat >fish oil suppliments will both help. Thanks. I'll look into those. I like the fish oil idea since I've been taking the stuff for decades. >As to the worms, does 'TK' spend any time outside? Nope. He's been an indoor cat for over a year, now. The vet said that the parasite can hide in soft tissue so a worming may not clear it up for good. This may be a chronic condition that will need regular treatment. Right now, we're going to treat the intestinal worms. If they return, then we will have to try to treat the cysts that hold the parasite. >The pills cost pennies each & are >'fairly' easy to administer. Pills??? I had to squirt some brown liquid into his mouth today. A pill would be MUCH easier. >Good Luck! Keep us posted. Thanks again. And I will. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > same news, heart murmur. But she was over 20 y.o., TK is only > around 2 (we think). I think my next step would be to get an echocardiogram/heart sonogram done - to see exactly why the heart murmur's there. Your vet can refer you, to have one done. That would allow for a more precise diagnosis & prognosis, ones that would allow the vet(s) & you to figure out what treatment - if any - would be necessary. One of my cats - who's 13 & has had a heart murmur all of her life(AFAIK) - just had a follow-up echo done. Showed exactly why the murmur's there: tiny hole in one atrium wall & mitral valves not closing in concert - both most likely congenital, & showed the good news (no enlargement of the heart). Plus gave us the heads-up on what to watch for, based on the findings. The cost wasn't bad, either, IMO - $150; way upstate NY. Cathy Needless to say, we are total wrecks tonight. > The checkup started on a bad note when the vet came in and > told us that TK had roundworms, again. We thought we got rid of [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > =RFsj > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > One of my cats - who's 13 & has had a heart murmur all of her life(AFAIK) - > just had a follow-up echo done. Showed exactly why the murmur's there: tiny > hole in one atrium wall & mitral valves Let me clarify that - she does have only one mitral valve: the 2 flaps of the mitral valve not closing at the same time! Cathy not closing in concert - both most > likely congenital, & showed the good news (no enlargement of the heart). > Plus gave us the heads-up on what to watch for, based on the findings. The [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > =RFsj > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "Cathy Friedmann" <clfr@adelphia.net> >I think my next step would be to get an echocardiogram/heart sonogram done - >to see exactly why the heart murmur's there. Your vet can refer you, to >have one done. That would allow for a more precise diagnosis & prognosis, >ones that would allow the vet(s) & you to figure out what treatment - if >any - would be necessary. That will be one of the next steps if TK still has the murmur at the next visit. That can be done at the vet's office. She also suggested x-rays and an ekg to get a full picture of the situation. >One of my cats - who's 13 & has had a heart murmur all of her life(AFAIK) - >just had a follow-up echo done. Showed exactly why the murmur's there: tiny >hole in one atrium wall & mitral valves not closing in concert - both most >likely congenital, & showed the good news (no enlargement of the heart). >Plus gave us the heads-up on what to watch for, based on the findings. That's good to hear. You must have been VERY relieved to find that out. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > visit. That can be done at the vet's office. She also suggested x-rays and > an ekg to get a full picture of the situation. Sounds like a good game plan, to me. > >One of my cats - who's 13 & has had a heart murmur all of her life(AFAIK) - > >just had a follow-up echo done. Showed exactly why the murmur's there: tiny [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > That's good to hear. You must have been VERY relieved to find that out. Yes. :-) It was also quite fascinating: the vet who did the echo explained everything to me as she went along; I could see on the screen exactly what she was talking about. Cathy > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.2 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > =AXJF > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Norman, sorry to hear that, but as I understand it, that is not too grave and very often transitory, controllable, and not any kind of a death sentence. I hope you have better news in a few weeks. I'm quite certain there could be worse diagnosis and I'm sure others with experience will chime in to help you out here. Keep your chin up. TK needs your positive energy. Nomen Nescio <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > So here's the story. She rates the murmur at a 2 or 3 (scale of 6, > I believe). Kami has had a level 2 heart murmur for YEARS. We have never done anything about it--no meds, no nothing. The only concern we have about it is her asthma stressing her heart and how much fluid she can get sub-q. Other than that, a 2 is not a really big deal. Don't let the vet con you into a jillion tests. Kami's never had more than the vet listen and say, "Yep, it's a murmur."  SignatureBrandy Alexandre® http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? > Nomen Nescio <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in > rec.pets.cats.health+behav: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > vet con you into a jillion tests. Kami's never had more than the vet > listen and say, "Yep, it's a murmur." Problem with that advice is, one being's murmur is not always another being's murmur. Some are basically benign, while others aren't. I would opt for an ultrasound to see what the cause of the murmur is, & if it's having any adverse effect on the heart, or if it's a basically benign one. Cathy Cathy Friedmann <clfr@adelphia.net> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > "Brandy Alexandre" <brandyalx@kittylittercomcast.net> wrote in > message [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Cathy I guess you're right. Sometimes I just don't trust vets. Vets and dentists are my top two next to car salesmen. ;) It does depend on where the murmur is. If I can recall correctly what was written on the last report, Kami's was systolic(?) Someplace else could be another issue. SignatureBrandy Alexandre® http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "Brandy?Alexandre" <brandyalx@kittylittercomcast.net> >Kami has had a level 2 heart murmur for YEARS. We have never done >anything about it--no meds, no nothing. The only concern we have about >it is her asthma stressing her heart and how much fluid she can get >sub-q. Other than that, a 2 is not a really big deal. Don't let the >vet con you into a jillion tests. Kami's never had more than the vet >listen and say, "Yep, it's a murmur." I'm glad to hear Kami is doing well with her murmur, and I may be a little too uptight about the whole heart murmur thing. But our 20 y.o. cat had the vet (not our regular vet since we really just brought her in for her shots) find a heart murmur and tell us "not to worry about it". A month later we woke up at around 2 am with "Fission" standing next to the bed struggling to breath. I checked her for obstructions and everything seemed clear, so I grabbed her and brought her in the bathroom and turned on the shower to add moisture to the air in hopes that it would give her some relief but it wasn't helping and she was looking like she was going downhill rapidly. By then, my wife had dug out the cat carrier to rush her to the emergency vet (almost an hour away). This was CRISIS time and I didn't think she was going to live long enough to make it to the vet's. My wife's in a panic, "Fission' is in distress, and I'm solidly in "Oh, Sh*t" mode. Then it hit me..."Oxygen", I said "She needs some f**kin' oxygen". I ran out to the garage and grabbed my welding torch (an oxygen - acetylene rig) and ran back upstairs. Turned on the oxygen flow and started blowing it in her face. In half a minute she started looking a little better, gasping a little less, seemed a little more alert. Got her in the carrier, out to the car, stuffed the welder between the seats, and took off. So my wife's in the back blowing oxygen in the cats face and I'm driving like a "bat out of hell" to the vet's. I can remember the speedometer hitting 110 on the highway but I figured if I encountered a cop, he was either going to have to shoot me or follow me to the vet's 'cause I wasn't going to stop (and if I'd hit a tree with a full tank of gas, a bottle of oxygen, a bottle of acetylene, in an oxygen rich environment....I would have made the national news). Anyway, I made it to the vet's in about 1/2 hour with the pressure gauge on the oxygen tank creeping toward empty. We carried "Fission" into the office, still blowing oxygen in her face, and she became an immediate priority. They put her on their own oxygen supply, checked and found fluid in her chest and her heart working like hell to keep her alive. Rushed her into the O.R., drained the fluid, and 20 minutes later brought us back a very worn out cat that was breathing normally. The vet told us "she's OK, for now, but she has some serious heart problems". She also told me that without the oxygen, "Fission" wouldnt have survived the drive. So that's how I found out that her heart murmur was much more than something where we were "not to worry about it". Further tests showed that things were worse than we could have imagined. The vet that did the echocardiogram confided to me that she had "never seen worse". We did all we could for her but about 2 months later, "Fission's" heart just suddenly gave out. "Fiz" died at 10 pm, Dec.22, 2000. My wife and I were both with her in the living room. We buried her on Dec. 23. There was no Christmas that year with the exception of unwrapping one gift.... .....a bottle of Bailey's Irish Cream that had been a traditional gift for 2 decades.....The tag on the wrapping - From: Fission. Nomen Nescio <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > Further tests showed that things were worse than we could have > imagined. The vet that did the echocardiogram confided to me that [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > had been a traditional gift for 2 decades.....The tag on the > wrapping - From: Fission. Wow, what a story. I'm glad you thought of the oxygen and sorry you lost Fiz. When I had to take Kami to the ER for a UTI cum kidney infection, we talked about murmurs and the tech said that you can almost see the bad ones working the cat from across the room. I'm guessing that's the level 6. I'm sure TK will be fine. Do what you feel best about doing. No vet has suggested further tests to me, so I guess it depends where the murmur is. SignatureBrandy Alexandre® http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "Brandy?Alexandre" <brandyalx@kittylittercomcast.net> >Wow, what a story. Well. I thought an explanation of why I was in somewhat of a panic after hearing about TK's murmur might be in order. I was beginning to get the feeling that that I was just looking neurotic. > I'm glad you thought of the oxygen and sorry you >lost Fiz. "Fiz" was a real sweetheart. She and I had the closest thing to a romance allowed by law. Sometimes she'd walk up to me, give me that cute look, turn around a flip that gorgeous tail back and forth, and all I could think was "Damn, I wish I could be a cat for a day". The oxygen was just pure sh*t luck. I don't do a lot of welding and usually empty an oxygen tank in 3 or 4 years. I just happened to get a fresh tank a couple of months earlier so it was nearly full. If it had been half empty, I never would have gotten "Fission" to the vets in time. > I'm sure TK will be fine. Do what you >feel best about doing. Hopefully, I'll bring him in a couple of weeks from now, and there won't be a detectable murmur. That would be the end of it, for now at least. If the vet says "tests", he'll get the tests. It's only money, and I'm not exactly making a living standing on a streetcorner with a tin cup in my hand, although my wife sometimes complains that I dress like that. > No vet has suggested further tests to me, so I >guess it depends where the murmur is. I'm not sure how a vet can tell the difference, but in your case, I can't argue with the results. Kami seems to be doing pretty good for an old girl. 17 if I remember correctly. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > From: "BrandyáAlexandre" <brandyalx@kittylittercomcast.net> <snipped> > > No vet has suggested further tests to me, so I > >guess it depends where the murmur is. > > I'm not sure how a vet can tell the difference, When I took Demelza (cat with lifelong murmur) for her recent echocardiogram, the vet said that she could hear ther murmur on two sides when she did the initial exam. So when she was doing the sonogram, she was looking for the reasons - & found them - the tiny atrium wall hole, & the mitral valve flaps not working in perfect concert (one lags behind the other, in closing). Cathy but in your case, I > can't argue with the results. Kami seems to be doing pretty good > for an old girl. 17 if I remember correctly. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > "Fiz" was a real sweetheart. She and I had the closest thing to a > romance allowed by law. Sometimes she'd walk up to me, give me > that cute look, turn around a flip that gorgeous tail back and forth, > and all I could think was "Damn, I wish I could be a cat for a day". Hee! This is really cute. She flirted with you! She was probably thinking, "Damn, big fella, shame you aren't a cat!" ;) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "Mary" <marys@catlover.com> >Hee! This is really cute. She flirted with you! She was probably >thinking, "Damn, big fella, shame you aren't a cat!" ;) "Fission" was unquestionably the sexiest cat I have ever seen. And she worked it for all it was worth. I just could never say "no" to that cat. A cute tip of the head, swish of the tail, and a purr that sounded like someone parked an 18-wheeler out front would get her anything she wanted and out of any trouble she got into. I've loved all the cats that I've cared for, but "Fiz" I was "in love" with from the day she climbed up my leg and sat in my lap looking up at me as if to say "I'm going home with YOU"! She tolerated my wife, but any other girl that got too close to me, or acted too friendly toward me, could expect to get a cautionary growl from "Fission". So I guess I was HER guy. Damn, I wish I could have been a cat for a day. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > me, or acted too friendly toward me, could expect to get a cautionary > growl from "Fission". So I guess I was HER guy. I have seen this flirting behavior in my cats. For some reason I have always had girl cats. The first time was Gnarly with my European boyfriend. I don't know if it was his accent or the way he smelled (both things that I liked lol) but she got that hilarious coquettish look on her face and pranced around, rubbed all over him, wriggled around in front of him, and when he spoke to her her face had this "oh, yesss, yessss, tell me more" look! My current baby Cheeky does this with my husband. Neither cat ever did it with me, though Cheeks has claimed me, sleeps on me, and is very affectionate. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > =RFsj > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Purrs for all. MLB > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > The vet found that he had a heart murmur, this evening. It wasn't > there in August. It's there now. > So here's the story. She rates the murmur at a 2 or 3 (scale of 6, > I believe). But sometimes cats can get a murmur when they're > under stress. TK was awfully stressed as he was either trembling > or shivering in the exam room Before you start worrying about the worst, have him checked again when, hopefully, he'll be a little calmer. Excited and frightened cats have increased heart rates >> which increases the velocity of the blood flow >> which can cause turbulence and a resulting murmur. You might also want to have him checked for anemia. Anemia decreases blood viscosity. Also, the stroke volume increases to make up for decrease in the oxygen-carrying RBCs. The combination of decreased viscosity and increased velocity can easily produce turbulence and a murmur *without* having any actual heart disease. Also, sometimes murmurs disappear when the position of the cat's body is changed. If there's any trace of a murmur when he's re-examined, I would strongly recommend an echocardiogram. Best of luck, Phil -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "Phil P." <phil@maxshouse.com> >Before you start worrying about the worst, have him checked again when, >hopefully, he'll be a little calmer. Excited and frightened cats have >increased heart rates >> which increases the velocity of the blood flow >> >which can cause turbulence and a resulting murmur. I managed to get my stethoscope on him last night when he was sleeping on the bed and to my untrained ear, everything sounds normal. Just a steady thump...thump...thump without the whooshing noise that I remember all too well from our cat, "Fission", who we lost to heart disease. So that was somewhat reassuring. I'm going to bring the stethoscope to the next vet visit to see if I can hear what the vet's hearing. I would have asked to listen last time, but people tend to be VERY possessive with their stethoscopes. >You might also want to have him checked for anemia. Anemia decreases blood >viscosity. Also, the stroke volume increases to make up for decrease in the >oxygen-carrying RBCs. The combination of decreased viscosity and increased >velocity can easily produce turbulence and a murmur *without* having any >actual heart disease. Interesting! I was looking through the Cornell Book to see If I could find a relationship between roundworm and anemia. My gut instinct tells me that there could be a connection, since the worms are munching up the nutrients from the cat's system, but I couldn't find anything in the book. Would you happen to know of any connection between roundworm and anemia? Also, if anemia tends to thin the blood, would you have any comments on the wisdom of giving TK some aspirin since that would have a tendency to thin the blood even more? >If there's any trace of a murmur when he's re-examined, I would strongly >recommend an echocardiogram. Absolutely. Any trace of a murmur and he's getting a full workup, including x-rays and an ekg.I'll make sure the vet at least checks him for anemia, also. I would probably request a full blood screening since the vet would be drawing blood anyway. And with TK's unknown stray/feral history, it would probably be a good idea to keep a closer watch on his "numbers" than one would for a cat with a known history. We really love this little guy and want to do the best we can for him. So any suggestions you may have regarding his health care are greatly appreciated. Cost really isn't a significant issue when weighed against what's best for our "wildcat". Thank You > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > visit to see if I can hear what the vet's hearing. I would have asked to listen > last time, but people tend to be VERY possessive with their stethoscopes. One of the best investments I've made was a Littmann Model 4000 electronic stethoscope- it has recording capabilities and you can send the recording to your computer and even email it to your vet. Its not cheap, but well worth the investment. You can get a glimpse of it behind my cat on the pediatric scale: http://www.maxshouse.com/weighing_a_cat_made_easy.htm If I hear something that doesn't sound right, I switch to a pediatric seth so I can localize the sound. A pediatric seth has a very small diaphram which is ideal for localizing sounds in a cat's tiny heart. The bell is used for low frequency sounds- but isn't very useful in cats. I used to think gallops were easier to hear with the bell- which is true for dogs- but not cats. The cat's heart vibrates at a higher frequency than a dog's, so, the diaphram is actually better for listening for gallops in cats than the bell. Good Littmann pediatric/infant seths are cheap- ~$60-$75. I took a course in Veterinary Diagnosic Cardiology but I actually learned more about heart sounds in 3 hours with my vet than from hundreds of hours of listening to recorded heart sounds. Once you finally identify an abnormal heart sound correctly, you'll *never* forget it! Ask your vet if he can give you some basic pointers. You'll learn more from him than from any book or recording. > >You might also want to have him checked for anemia. Anemia decreases blood > >viscosity. Also, the stroke volume increases to make up for decrease in the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Would you happen to know of any connection between roundworm and > anemia? Roundworms can certainly cause cachexia- weight loss, muscle wasting and even coughing- but they're not blood parasites. Hookworms, however, can certainly cause blood-loss anemia because blood continuously seeps from the bite sites. Have you had his stool checked for occult blood- or gross melena? > Also, if anemia tends to thin the blood, would you have any comments > on the wisdom of giving TK some aspirin since that would have a tendency > to thin the blood even more? I'm not sure I'm following you (not enough sleep). Did your vet put TK on aspirin after detecting a 2/3 murmur? Which type of murmur did your vet say TK has? Personally, I think aspirin therapy is a bit premature- especially without a echocardiographic examination. > >If there's any trace of a murmur when he's re-examined, I would strongly > >recommend an echocardiogram. > > Absolutely. Any trace of a murmur and he's getting a full workup, including > x-rays and an ekg. Save the money on an EKG if you're going for an echo. You can always opt for an EKG after the echo if necessary. We hardly ever use our EKG since I got the ultrasound machine. An EKG can't distinguish the different forms of cardiomyopathy or even distinguish cardiomypoathy from hyperthyroidism! I'll make sure the vet at least checks him for anemia, also. > I would probably request a full blood screening since the vet would be drawing > blood anyway. And with TK's unknown stray/feral history, it would probably be > a good idea to keep a closer watch on his "numbers" than one would for a cat > with a known history. Whenever you get a cat, you should always order a complete bloodwork up so you'll have a baseline. Increases and decreases *within* the normal ranges can be an early warning sign. > We really love this little guy and want to do the best we can for him. So any > suggestions you may have regarding his health care are greatly appreciated. > Cost really isn't a significant issue when weighed against what's best for > our "wildcat". About the best investment you can make is a good pediatric scale. Noticing slight weight gains and losses in a cat you see everyday is difficult- especially in long-haired cats. Slight weight losses can be early warning signs of illness and will prompt a vet visit before symptoms appear- when most diseases are amenable to treatment. Best of luck. Phil. "Phil P." <phil@maxshouse.com> wrote : > One of the best investments I've made was a Littmann Model 4000 electronic > stethoscope- it has recording capabilities and you can send the recording to [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > he can give you some basic pointers. You'll learn more from him than from > any book or recording. Thanks for this information, Phil. It's amazing what you have learned and great that you're willing to take the time to share it. >About the best investment you can make is a good pediatric scale. Noticing >slight weight gains and losses in a cat you see everyday is difficult- [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >Phil. I realize that a bathroom scale isn't ideal but I do have a digital one. Espy varies from 9 to 10 (mostly 10) and Nipsy is always 16. The food bowls are right by the scale so one or the other routinely gets on it. If either changes by much I'm going to know. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "Phil P." <phil@maxshouse.com> >The cat's heart vibrates at a higher frequency than a dog's, so, the >diaphram is actually better for listening for gallops in cats than the bell. >Good Littmann pediatric/infant seths are cheap- ~$60-$75. I'll see if I can find one of those. > Once you finally identify an >abnormal heart sound correctly, you'll *never* forget it! Ask your vet if >he can give you some basic pointers. You'll learn more from him than from >any book or recording. I learned quite a bit through my experience dealing with "Fission". A lesson I would have preferred not to get. It's a lot easier to understand what the vet is talking about when you can hear it for yourself, though. Hopefully, there won't be a murmur in a couple of weeks. But if there is, I will want to hear it and get a detailed analysis of what it is that I'm hearing. > Have you had his stool checked for occult blood- or gross >melena? I don't know if it was tested for that. I'll ask. They did a "standard" screening, whatever that means. I would assume that it was checked for blood since it's a simple test, and a rather important bit of information. All they found that was noteworthy was the roundworm. >I'm not sure I'm following you (not enough sleep). Did your vet put TK on >aspirin after detecting a 2/3 murmur? Which type of murmur did your vet say >TK has? Personally, I think aspirin therapy is a bit premature- especially >without a echocardiographic examination. It was a "2 or a 3" murmur. As the vet said, it's somewhat subjective. The only other thing she said was that she heard it on both sides and it was more pronounced on the left side. I probably should have asked her to detail it a little more, but my wife and I were somewhat shocked at the time and not thinking as clearly as we should have been. She did want "TK" to be taking the 81mg of aspirin on a twice a week schedule (3 days then 4 days). Her justification for that was that a few years ago she had a cat come in with a murmur and scheduled an ultrasound for 5 days later....the cat had a stroke 3 days later and died before the ultrasound. So now she suggests aspirin anytime that there's a question. She said that "It won't do him any harm to be taking the aspirin for a few weeks". But that is something that I'm a little less than comfortable with. >Save the money on an EKG if you're going for an echo. You can always opt >for an EKG after the echo if necessary. We hardly ever use our EKG since I >got the ultrasound machine. An EKG can't distinguish the different forms of >cardiomyopathy or even distinguish cardiomypoathy from hyperthyroidism! That will be the first step. I watched the echo done with "Fission" and it very clearly showed that she was in trouble. Even I could see that. So if the echocardiogram raises any questions, we'll move on from there. >Whenever you get a cat, you should always order a complete bloodwork up so >you'll have a baseline. Increases and decreases *within* the normal ranges >can be an early warning sign. We had the full workup done before we brought him in for neutering and after his bite wounds healed up. So that should be just a little over a year ago. >About the best investment you can make is a good pediatric scale. Noticing >slight weight gains and losses in a cat you see everyday is difficult- >especially in long-haired cats. Slight weight losses can be early warning >signs of illness and will prompt a vet visit before symptoms appear- when >most diseases are amenable to treatment. Right now, weight loss ISN'T a problem. "TK" is a muncher. He's a little overweight at nearly 14 lbs. He should be around 12 - 13. It's hard to keep him on a diet 'cause when he's hungry and there's no food, he starts shreading every piece of paper he can find. Won't eat it, just shreads it. He's a short-hair, but the scale does sound like a good idea. Especially if we have to put him on a serious diet. I'm putting it on my "To do" list. Thanks for taking the time to give me a little advice and assistance in determining how to best take care of my "big ol' buddy". Nomen Nescio <Use-Author-Supplied-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > I managed to get my stethoscope on him last night when he was > sleeping on the bed and to my untrained ear, everything sounds [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > time, but people tend to be VERY possessive with their > stethoscopes. Heh, every time I try to sneak the stethoscope onto Kami I get purring. Actually, that's sometimes the only way I'll know she's purring. Very quiet motor in there. I like to lay my head on her side a little and listen. SignatureBrandy Alexandre® http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "Brandy?Alexandre" <brandyalx@kittylittercomcast.net> >Heh, every time I try to sneak the stethoscope onto Kami I get purring. >Actually, that's sometimes the only way I'll know she's purring. Very >quiet motor in there. I like to lay my head on her side a little and >listen. "TK' has a stealth purr, also. For the longest time I thought the cat would never purr Then I realized that it's a very quiet rumble. Almost unnoticable unless you're listening carefully for it. |
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