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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / April 2005It's the Husband or the Cat: Urination issue, Cat Crisis
I'm posting for a good friend of mine. She is married and has 2 small boys, and a 15 yo cat. The cat has checked out perfectly with the Vet. However, the cat urinates all over the lower level of her home (finished office/basement playroom). She has tried the usual attempts: extra litter boxes, cleaning more often, professional rug cleaning, rug cleaning with no-odor, etc. She is at her wits end...the house smells horrible and her husband us basically saying it is the cat or him... The cat is declawed so she cannot be let out. She knows that a shelter would likely not find her a home, with her age and this problem. I am calling resucue groups in NJ for her, and just beginning the search. Any ideas?? Thanks bethmer...@yahoo.com wrote: > I'm posting for a good friend of mine. She is married and has 2 small > boys, and a 15 yo cat. The cat has checked out perfectly with the Vet. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Any ideas?? > Thanks Oh dear. I don't have any advice for you, but I am glad your friend is smarter than just to dump her at a "no-kill" shelter and assume she will "find a good home" like so many people do. Truth is, and it sounds like she knows it, NO ONE is going to put up with a pissing cat except the owner who loves it. I truly hope someone can offer some useful advice for you. Sherry Go to another vet and get a second opinion. -- Barb Of course I don't look busy, I did it right the first time. > I'm posting for a good friend of mine. She is married and has 2 small > boys, and a 15 yo cat. The cat has checked out perfectly with the Vet. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Any ideas?? > Thanks Well done for trying to help your friend. If it's not a health problem or litter box issue, then your friend should have a long look at her cat's life and ask what stress is causing her cat to do this. How long has the cat been doing this for? Do you know if she is spraying or squatting to wee . Does the cat have full access to the rest of the house? Any other pets? Can she see other cats outside? How old are her boys and how do they and her husband treat the cat? Alison >>The cat is declawed so she cannot be let out. She knows that a shelter would likely not find her a home, with her age and this problem. I am calling resucue groups in NJ for her, and just beginning the search. >Any ideas?? Thanks What does the vet say? or has she not taken it to a vet? Sounds to me like that is the first thing that needs to be done for this poor kitty. It could be urinary tract problems, or it could be problems like nerve pain from having the ends of its toes amputated. >>The cat is declawed so she cannot be let out. She knows that a shelter would likely not find her a home, with her age and this problem. I am calling resucue groups in NJ for her, and just beginning the search. >Any ideas?? Thanks What does the vet say? or has she not taken it to a vet? Sounds to me like that is the first thing that needs to be done for this poor kitty. It could be urinary tract problems, or it could be problems like nerve pain from having the ends of its toes amputated. The cat had been taken to a vet who said there was nothing wrong. I want to repeat, go to another vet and get a second opinion. Beyond that I think the idea of an enclosed condo works well because cats do so much sleeping, anyway, and as long as she lets the cat out as much as is possible on a regular schedule I think the cat would understand. Let's be realistic, you can't have a cat peeing up your home all the time and no one else will take this cat and still you don't want to put the cat out. -- Barb Of course I don't look busy, I did it right the first time. >The cat had been taken to a vet who said there was nothing wrong. I want to >repeat, go to another vet and get a second opinion. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >realistic, you can't have a cat peeing up your home all the time and no one >else will take this cat and still you don't want to put the cat out. I think there are more of us in this kind of situation than any of us would like. Carey is not quite 12, but life is difficult with a peeing cat. We've just increased her dose of Elavil as of Friday. She has a current clean bill of health and has had numerous tests by more than one vet. As of today, where I found yet another soaked sofa cushion, we're splitting her dosage between morning and evening. One large dose in the evening had her pretty looped and impaired her jumping ability. Life in a cage. I don't think that would be my choice. Playing with and sleeping with the other cat is a primary pastime of hers, as is cuddling with the dogs. Quality of life is important to all beings. Supervising a cat in a household with 3 other pets, when she would be out of the cage, isn't a simple task - a dog is a lot easier to supervise and they are usually with the human. Restricting the movement of all pets by closing off some rooms would be problematic in many situations (we hang out in a very open family room and there is no way to block cats from going upstairs to the living room, or vice versa). She has peed right in front of us as well, but generally on easily cleanable surfaces. Most of the problems SEEM to happen overnight. The other cat sleeps with us. Should he be penalized because his "sister" pees? Shutting her in the laundry room (I'd have to install some doors, plus she has peed on the counters, dryer and floor as well) would keep him from his food, water and litterboxes, although there is another box upstairs. I feed them right before bedtime though, and I'd have to find another place to feed him that was off limits to dogs. There are only so many places available! If I confined her, I sincerely doubt we'd get any sleep at all. I guess I could always try a dog crate with a litter box and such overnight, but I'm not betting on a very happy or quiet cat. If this new dosing doesn't do it, that will probably be my next try, and I'll have to figure out what location would make her (and us!) happiest. Decisions are not easy. Animals are euthanized for far less, every day. I can't bring myself to do that to her, but my house is being ruined as well. Not fun, no matter how you look at it.  SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album If the cat has checked out medically, she can be placed on Amytriptaline (spelling?) for inappropriate urination. Gail > I'm posting for a good friend of mine. She is married and has 2 small > boys, and a 15 yo cat. The cat has checked out perfectly with the Vet. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Any ideas?? > Thanks >I'm posting for a good friend of mine. She is married and has 2 small >boys, and a 15 yo cat. The cat has checked out perfectly with the Vet. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Any ideas?? Yes, your friend goes out and buys a large condo cage for the cat and sets it by a sunny window. All cats can live comfortably in a large cage for years as long as they are allowed out for exercise several times per day. A condo cage with several levels will cost perhaps $120 plus shipping from one of the vet supply companies. I buy regularly from KV Vet supply www.kvvet.com/ . Look for "cat playpen" for a picture of what I mean. The cat will learn that this is home and will prefer that cage. My rescued momcats raise their kittens in such a cage where they feel protected. It's big enough for a litter box and kitten box on the first level and several sleeping perches above that. Please do not have the cat put to sleep. BarB > Yes, your friend goes out and buys a large condo cage for the cat and > sets it by a sunny window. All cats can live comfortably in a large [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > BarB I don't know about years, Barb. That just seems heartbreaking to me. Assuming the cat is only going to be in the cage during the time Owner can't monitor it, if Owner works, that's 9-10 hours in the cage. Owner sleeps. That's another 8 hours. It's a nice cage, but it's still a cage, and the cat is not going to understand why she is being confined. I'm not an animal behaviorist for sure. But I'd think the cat would end up really depressed. Let the flames begin, but if I were a cat I think I'd rather be euthanized than be plopped in a cage by the window the rest of my life. OTOH, if this is a temporary solution until the real cause can be isolated, that's different. But would being caged part-time stress the cat even further so that the behavior would just escalate. I would certainly try drugs & Feliway first, and I'm the one who hates to see cats medicated. Sherry > I don't know about years, Barb. That just seems heartbreaking to me. > Assuming the cat is only going to be in the cage during the time Owner > can't monitor it, if Owner works, that's 9-10 hours in the cage. Owner > sleeps. That's another 8 hours. It's a nice cage, but it's still a > cage, and the cat is not going to understand why she is being confined. The flip side, though, is it's a 15-year-old cat. When Pudge was 15, she pretty much confined herself to certain spaces and slept like the old girl she was. In other words, I don't think it's quite as bad as if the cat were young and active. Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/ > > I don't know about years, Barb. That just seems heartbreaking to me. > > Assuming the cat is only going to be in the cage during the time Owner [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > The flip side, though, is it's a 15-year-old cat. When Pudge was 15, she > pretty much confined herself to certain spaces and slept like the old > girl she was. > > In other words, I don't think it's quite as bad as if the cat were young > and active. That's true. But since it *is* a 15-year-old cat and has never done this before, it sure makes you wonder if there's a renal or urinary tract etc. issue going on. My old cats were pretty ingrained in their habits, and anytime anyone peed outside the box, there was always something wrong. Sherry > I'm posting for a good friend of mine. She is married and has 2 small > boys, and a 15 yo cat. The cat has checked out perfectly with the Vet. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Any ideas?? > Thanks Diapers? http://www.joybies.com/pagecat.html Thanks for all your posts, I really appreciate it. Just to answer a few questions that were raised: The kids are 3 and 5 but treat the cat well, as does the husband. The cat has seen a vet, and no cause was found. It really isnt a new behavior, but has been happening for a while. I forgot about Feliway, I will suggest that to her today. Her vet mentioned the cage idea, which my friend finds heartbreaking. I'm not sure what I would do in her case. When my cats had a bout of inappropriate pee, I was able to change their behaviour by adding a litter box on the lower level of my house. They never did it again. Any other tips would be appreciated! Beth > Thanks for all your posts, I really appreciate it. Just to answer a > few questions that were raised: The kids are 3 and 5 but treat the cat [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Beth Has she tried a different cat LITTER? >The cat has seen a vet, and no cause >was found. It really isnt a new behavior, >but has been happening for a while. Has the cat had xrays to check for bladder or kidney stones? Was bloodwork done? A urinalysis? *When* were any test done and when was the cat at the vet last? I often find that people's idea of a cat being seen by a vet can mean it was *a year ago,* or a quick once-over was done with no testing. If you can get details that would be great. A medical cause absolutely must be ruled out because if it is medical, behavior fixes won't work. If there is in fact *no* medical cause behind the behavior, your friend might want to try medication. Prozac would be a good first try as it has very few possible side effects and AFAIK none have actually been reported in cats. I have a cat that's on it who had suffered severe anxiety and innappropriate elimination, and on the medication she is a perfectly well adjusted, happy cat. Off of it she's a basket case. I know others who have used Prozac as a last resort for cats with elimination issues and it has worked wonders. There are several other medications available for this problem in case the first one doesn't work, so I don't see why the problem can't be fixed. And WRT to the husband, if anyone threatened to kill my cat they would be out the door, husband or no. Threatening a loved one with killing a pet is disgusting, cruel behavior and is a sign of bigger issues. Megan If the above has not been investigated it needs to be, as behavior solutionswon't work if there is amedical cause. Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray I wrote: >WRT to the husband, if anyone >threatened to kill my cat they would be out >the door, husband or no. Threatening a >loved one with killing a pet is disgusting, >cruel behavior and is a sign of bigger >issues. I just want to clarify here that I understand that he may not have said this specifically, but the result of the cat getting dumped at a shelter would be the same. A 15 yo cat with urination issues is deemed unadoptable and is therefore a dead cat as far as most shelters are concerned. The husband knows that. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > Thanks for all your posts, I really appreciate it. Just to answer a > few questions that were raised: The kids are 3 and 5 but treat the cat [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > litter box on the lower level of my house. They never did it again. > Any other tips would be appreciated! I really feel for your friend, because although this is often reversable, there are some cats that, as one vet put it, "prefer to pee on fabric." It is really hard to live with inappropriate elimination, particularly when it is urination. > Thanks for all your posts, I really appreciate it. Just to answer a > few questions that were raised: The kids are 3 and 5 but treat the cat > well, as does the husband. The cat has seen a vet, and no cause was > found. It really isnt a new behavior, but has been happening for a > while.>> I forgot about Feliway, I will suggest that to her today. Her vet > mentioned the cage idea, which my friend finds heartbreaking. I'm not > sure what I would do in her case. When my cats had a bout of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Beth Hi Beth, Does your friend have access to a PC? She should try this forum and post as many details as she can. Pam Johnson- Bennett Think Like A Cat Forum http://messageboards.ivillage.com/iv-ptthinkcat?redirCnt=1 Also more info here http://www.apbc.org.uk/article10.htm Has your friend tried a feline behaviourist? Her vet might be able to recommend one or someone here from the US can tell you where to find one. he or she should come to the house and assess the situation and give a plan to follow. Drugging and confining a cat without finding the cause or trying behaviour modification will contain the problem and help the owner but it will not help the cat in the long run. You'll just have a drugged unhappy cat. If the cat has any type of lower urinary tract disease the best thing to do is to add more fluid and canned food to her diet and give her a GAG supplement that lines her bladder. I dont knwo the names of the supplements in the US but in the Uk there is Cystease and Cystaid. If she is spraying upright or weeing on sofas and beds, its more likely because she is stressed. I think your friend need to look at the over- all picture and see what she can do to remove that stress. Cats find children very stressful, they're noisy and erratic and when they start to crawl and toddle they chase or try to grab them , no matter how well supervised. This cat was 10 when the first child arrived which is elderly and then another child . That means major changes in routine and less attention from both mum and dad. Once she started peeing , I expect that causes tension that cats sense , maybe a telling off and that would make the cat feel worse and more inclined to spray. Alison >the cat urinates all over the lower level >of her home (finished office/basement >playroom). I replied to you in another post, but I went back and noticed this. The urination only happens on the lower level? Does she have any litterboxes on the lower level? If not that maybe the problem. If the cat has started to develop arthritis (common in declawed cats) getting up the stairs to a litterbox may be painful and more effort than she is able to make when she has to go. She could also try closing off the lower level to her cat as well. Also, has she ever considered getting rid of the carpet and doing something else, like tile? She can still have rugs, but they'll be easy to pick up and get cleaned if necessary. Also, if there is that much odor, then whatever she is using to clean is not effective and the odor will attract the cat back to those areas and she'll pee on them again. She needs to get a blacklight, find the areas where the cat has urinated, and treat them with an enzyme cleaner like Petzyme Cat Stain and Odor Remover (available at Petsmart for about $12/gallon and a very good product) or Anti-Ickypoo (available online.) Don't waste money on Nature's Miracle. It is the least effective of such products. Treating the areas means soaking them in solution and keeping them wet for at least 2-3 days so the enzymes have a chance to work. This is easily managed by covering the treated spots with plastic to prevent air from drying them out. Once the time has elapsed, she can then blot the spots with towels and let them dry naturally. One treatment should make a huge difference, but sometimes two are necessary. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > The >urination only happens on the lower level? Does she have any litterboxes >on the lower level? If not that maybe the problem. I'm not the OP, but most of my cat's problems have been on the lower level as well. There are 3 litterboxes on that level, 1 on the upper level. She used all of them. No stair issues. > She could also try closing off the lower level >to her cat as well. I know I'm guiltyb of this sort of thing as well, but we all tend to imagine our own homes when we make suggestions like this. My lower level can't be closed off, don't know about the OP's. >Also, has she ever considered getting rid of the carpet and doing >something else, like tile? She can still have rugs, but they'll be easy >to pick up and get cleaned if necessary. I don't have carpet thank goodness, but even washable rugs get old if you have to wash them daily! >Treating the areas means soaking them in solution and keeping them wet >for at least 2-3 days so the enzymes have a chance to work. This is >easily managed by covering the treated spots with plastic to prevent air >from drying them out. Once the time has elapsed, she can then blot the >spots with towels and let them dry naturally. One treatment should make >a huge difference, but sometimes two are necessary. Most of my spots are either on very easily cleaned surfaces, or on soft furnishings. I have to sit on those! I wash the slipcovers (putting them on and off, washing and drying them isn't exactly my idea of daily fun) I have waterproof pads under them so the cushions themselves don't get soaked, but it's still a lot of work! SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album >I don't have carpet thank goodness, but even washable rugs get old if >you have to wash them daily! I did this for the last couple of years with Cinder. It took me forever to figure out that she didn't like litter of any kind. I finally started throwing a clean rug in her litter boxes every day and she was most happy to use the box then. We scooped the solid bits as we found them. I stocked up on cheap $1-$2 rugs, and washed a load a couple times a week. I always added that oxy cleaner stuff to the water and I was surprised to find that the smell was no worse than if we were using litter. Now that Cinder is gone, and I'm back to cleaning litter for three cats, I kind of long for the rug days again. It seemed easier to me. Lorraine I had two cats who slept together in the living room at night happily for 7 years. Suddenly, one of them started spraying everything, only at night. I tried everything to stop it and in the end, put pieces of lino around the chair, covered the parts he sprayed with binbags and every morning cleaned it all up. I did this, routinely, for 8 years. My husband suggested splitting the cats up, but they had been happy together for 7 years so I didnt think this was the problem. Two years ago, sadly, one of the cats passed away, and from that day to this, the other cat has never sprayed again. Obviously, he did not like being in the same room as the other one at night. It can sometimes be something so simple. > Two years >ago, sadly, one of the cats passed away, and from that day to this, >the other cat has never sprayed again. Obviously, he did not like >being in the same room as the other one at night. It can sometimes be >something so simple. Are you positive that the one who died wasn't the sprayer? SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album Positive, I had seen them both in action! I have been at home with both the cats for most part of their lives. Bin bags (black bags that line the dustbin or wheely bin (trash can at your end). >covered the parts he sprayed with binbags and >every morning cleaned it all up What are binbags? SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album > >covered the parts he sprayed with binbags and > >every morning cleaned it all up > > What are binbags? English trashbags!! >English trashbags!! Of course! I got "bean bags" in my brain and couldn't get that out long enough to think of the right answer. Thanks! SignatureJanet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfriendsobedience/album |
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