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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / April 2005Hundreds Attend Meetings Across Wisconsin to Discuss the Possibility of Hunting Wild Cats
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=662378 Wis. Considers Legalizing Cat Hunting Hundreds Attend Meetings Across Wisconsin to Discuss the Possibility of Hunting Wild Cats By The Associated The Associated Press Apr. 12, 2005 - Feline lovers holding pictures of cats, clutching stuffed animals and wearing whiskers faced-off against hundreds of hunters at meetings around Wisconsin to voice their opinion on whether to legalize cat hunting. Residents in 72 counties were asked whether free-roaming cats including any domestic cat that isn't under the owner's direct control or any cat without a collar should be listed as an unprotected species. If listed as so, the cats could be hunted. The proposal was one of several dozen included in a spring vote on hunting and fishing issues held by the Wisconsin Conservation Congress. The results, only advisory, get forwarded to the state Natural Resources Board. Statewide results were expected Tuesday. La Crosse firefighter Mark Smith, 48, helped spearhead the cat-hunting proposal. He wants Wisconsin to declare free-roaming wild cats an unprotected species, just like skunks or gophers. Anyone with a small-game license could shoot the cats at will. At least two other upper Midwestern states, South Dakota and Minnesota, allow wild cats to be shot and have for decades. Minnesota defines a wild, or feral, cat as one with no collar that does not show friendly behavior, said Kevin Kyle with that state's Department of Natural Resources. Every year in Wisconsin alone, an estimated 2 million wild cats kill 47 million to 139 million songbirds, according to state officials. Despite the astounding numbers, Smith's plan has been met with fierce opposition from cat lovers. Critics of Smith's idea organized Wisconsin Cat-Action Team and developed a Web site dontshootthecat.com. Some argue it is better to trap wild cats, spay or neuter them, before releasing them. In Madison, about 1,200 people attended the Monday evening meeting at the Alliant Center more than the 250 or so in a typical year, but less than the 3,000 or so who took part in a debate in 2000 over whether to allow hunters to shoot mourning doves. One of the attendees was Katy Francis, who wore cat ears, whiskers, a cat nose and a sign that read, "Too Cute to Kill." For Francis, "The cat hunting thing brought me out because it was very extreme." On the Net: http://dnr.wi.gov/org/nrboard/congress/ Conservation Congress: http://www.dontshootthecat.com Wisconsin Cat-Action Team: <snip> well, it was rejected in one county at least so far: http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/news/archive/local_20586520.shtml Justin > Critics of Smith's idea organized Wisconsin Cat-Action Team and > developed a Web site dontshootthecat.com. Some argue it is better to > trap wild cats, spay or neuter them, before releasing them. How practical is it to trap, spay or neuter, release millions of wild cats? Is this a workable solution? Who's going to pay for it? I'm against cat hunting, but I also want to hear a realistic alternative. >> Critics of Smith's idea organized Wisconsin Cat-Action Team and >> developed a Web site dontshootthecat.com. Some argue it is better to >> trap wild cats, spay or neuter them, before releasing them. > >How practical is it to trap, spay or neuter, release millions of wild >cats? No one is saying it is practical, they are saying it is the humane thing to do. It also has been proven that killing them just doesn't work. >Is this a workable solution? Who's going to pay for it? The taxpayers. Ideally it would be just the ones that dumped the cats to die in the first place. Unfortunately, everyone must suffer because of the actions of a few. >I'm against cat hunting, but I also want to hear a realistic >alternative. It isn't just hunting the ferals that is the problem. What if someone's pet gets out accidentally without a collar? If they don't act friendly, the could be shot if this eventually passes. That is what scares me the most. Justin Justin L <leejustice2@hotmail.com> wrote in rec.pets.cats.health+behav: > It isn't just hunting the ferals that is the problem. What if > someone's pet gets out accidentally without a collar? If they don't > act friendly, the could be shot if this eventually passes. > That is what scares me the most. I mentioned this before--people micochip their cats so they don't have to risk a collar. It's just not good.  SignatureBrandy??Alexandre? http://www.swydm.com/?refer=BrandyAlx Well, would you? > >> Critics of Smith's idea organized Wisconsin Cat-Action Team and > >> developed a Web site dontshootthecat.com. Some argue it is better to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > thing to do. It also has been proven that killing them just doesn't > work. The proponents could says it is also equally humane to do something to prevent birds from being killed for sport by wild cats. > >Is this a workable solution? Who's going to pay for it? > > The taxpayers. Ideally it would be just the ones that dumped the cats > to die in the first place. Unfortunately, everyone must suffer because > of the actions of a few. Unrealistic. > >I'm against cat hunting, but I also want to hear a realistic > >alternative. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > act friendly, the could be shot if this eventually passes. > That is what scares me the most. That should be the pet owner's responsibility. The kind of people who would go out and shoot cats - or hunt any kind of animal for that matter - are also the same people who would quite happily shoot birds. So 'protection of birds' is not a valid excuse, its a dodgy rationalisation for 'hunters' who are essentially mentally disturbed. Iain.H >The proponents could says it is also equally humane to do something to >prevent birds from being killed for sport by wild cats. >o< Rescued Cats & Kittens Needing Homes >o< >o< www.celiahammond.org >o< >o< www.cat77.org.uk >o< > That should be the pet owner's responsibility. Exactly. If someone doesn't want their cat shot, they should keep it indoors. If someone's cat bothers another, it oughta be shot--and the blood goes on the hands of the owner not the shooter. LRH > > That should be the pet owner's responsibility. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > LRH PRECISELY! If you pee on someone's curtains, are *they* the heavy for throwing you out? How did these "Jerry Springer" sensibilities become so prevalent? Don't throw your laziness over the fence for your neighbors to deal with. If your neighbor catches your cat, you should be grateful *and* embarassed. Actions have consequences, but inaction does too. Why does anyone mow their lawn, for themselves? No! It is a minor investment in getting along. rsquared > > > That should be the pet owner's responsibility. > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > rsquared You don't have cats, do you, a.shole? > You don't have cats, do you, a.shole? Oh, lovely! What are you doing here? Isn't Jerry Springer on? *PLONK* rsquared > > You don't have cats, do you, a.shole? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > rsquared I thought you already killfiled me. lol Meanwhile, you don't have cats, so I'll give you a free clue. Here we enjoy talking about cats, not the joys of shooting cats. So f.ck off. > > > You don't have cats, do you, a.shole? > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > I thought you already killfiled me. lol You're right, Mary. I'm weak. I can't resist the urge to peek during a tacky barb-swapping session. It takes me back to junior high school. I'm not proud of it. Unfortunately (for me), I am finding you're better at it than I am. I can be vain and petty, but I can't bring it to the surface as quickly or copiously as you can. I hope you're more open minded toward people who challenge your beliefs in person. Otherwise, it would be a disservice to the values that seem so dear to you. TTFN, rsquared > > > > You don't have cats, do you, a.shole? > > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > rsquared Okay. Now then, dummy, why did you do the PLONK sound effect when you are posting through Google? > *PLONK* Google supports killfiles now? Cool. Signature-- ~kaeli~ Acupuncture is a jab well done. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > > *PLONK* > > Google supports killfiles now? > Cool. OMG! How funny! I have *got* to start reading headers!! > > *PLONK* > > Google supports killfiles now? > Cool. Sarcasm? Your experience may be limited to life on the Microsoft plantation. rsquared > > In article <1113500475.399252.17850@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, > rodrig462 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Sarcasm? Your experience may be limited to life on the Microsoft > plantation. Do explain. DNR Vows No "Open Season" on Cats Apr 12, 2005, 12:55 PM The head of the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources said Tuesday there won't be an open season for hunting cats, no matter how people in Wisconsin vote on the proposal. The DNR held public hearings in all 72 counties Monday night. At each meeting, people in attendance voted on whether to allow the hunting of feral cats. The wild cats are blamed for killing many songbirds in Wisconsin. In Brown County, the vote was 233-168 against the proposal. The DNR says there are too many unanswered questions and problems associated with killing roaming cats, and for that reason the DNR says there will be no open hunting on them. -mhd > DNR Vows No "Open Season" on Cats > Apr 12, 2005, 12:55 PM [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > associated with killing roaming cats, and for that reason the DNR says > there will be no open hunting on them. I figured it would come down to this. >>DNR Vows No "Open Season" on Cats >>Apr 12, 2005, 12:55 PM [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > I figured it would come down to this. I *hoped* it would! Fuggin ignorant eediots. Gawd forbid my cat were to get out of the house accidentally. If someone were to shoot MY cat...oh man... > I *hoped* it would! Fuggin ignorant eediots. Gawd forbid my cat were to > get out of the house accidentally. If someone were to shoot MY cat...oh > man... Oh man, what? What WOULD you do? Kill the person who did it? Vandalize their property? If so, you're at least as bad as THEY are, maybe worse--because you're doing it to a human, rather than to an inferior animal. I'd be much more upset at someone hurting a human friend of mine than one of my cats. If you don't want your cat shot, CONTROL IT. Simple as that. I have cats, and they NEVER leave the house--granted, I live in the city in an apartment, but still. There's nothing wrong with loving your cat, but some of you in here have a love for your cat that is at least as perverted as Michael Jackson's love for kids. LRH >> I *hoped* it would! Fuggin ignorant eediots. Gawd forbid my cat were to >> get out of the house accidentally. If someone were to shoot MY cat...oh [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > LRH Well, I guess we deserved that - I *did* admit to letting my cat French kiss me! ;> Hugs, CatNipped Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of stupidity is for smart (wo)men to do nothing." -CatNipped >> I *hoped* it would! Fuggin ignorant eediots. Gawd forbid my cat were to >> get out of the house accidentally. If someone were to shoot MY cat...oh [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > >LRH Or a Catholic priest's love for boys. You're a "Christian", aren't you, Larry? eq > DNR Vows No "Open Season" on Cats > Apr 12, 2005, 12:55 PM [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > feral cats. The wild cats are blamed for killing many songbirds in > Wisconsin. You know which "studies" they're relying on, don't you? The bogus Temple fairy tales - "How Many Birds Do Cats Kill" a/k/a "The Wisconsin Study" - but the methodology used in the article was never published! Temple's most famous crock was "On The Prowl". When he was cornered in an interview and asked to produce his data, Temple admitted that his numbers weren't actually data but his *guesses* and "projections" of "how bad it might be"..... He only has one 'study' actually published in a peer-reviewed journal - which was questionable - the other three are bogus and the ones used extensively by bird groups or anyone else who has an agenda against cats. I'd bet dollars to donuts that the bird groups fund his bogus studies. Unfortunately, the damage his studies caused has already been done. He is the *worst* danger there is to cats. > In Brown County, the vote was 233-168 against the proposal. > > The DNR says there are too many unanswered questions and problems > associated with killing roaming cats, and for that reason the DNR says > there will be no open hunting on them. People in the other two states where killing cats is legal should now propose a bill to recind that law. Phil > -mhd <<SNIP>> > You know which "studies" they're relying on, don't you? The bogus Temple > fairy tales - "How Many Birds Do Cats Kill" a/k/a "The Wisconsin [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > and the ones used > extensively by bird groups or anyone else who has an agenda against cats. <<SNIP>> > I'd bet dollars to donuts that the bird groups fund his bogus studies. > Unfortunately, the damage his studies caused has already been done. He is > the *worst* danger there is to cats. <<SNIP>> > Phil Honest question: Why would "bird groups" have an "agenda against cats"? As a group they strike me as educated, animal loving folks. Unproven doesn't mean *false*. One may accept that O.J. was guilty as hell, while understanding that it was not proven, as our society defines "proof". People tend to raise the level of required proof to suit their existing bias. My neighbor's cat used to leave about a half dozen insects, lizards, birds, on the door mat, every couple of weeks - - even more in the summer. That was just *our* doorstep! Are you ready to tell me that I didn't really see him do it, and they might have already been dead when he found them? Some things are so patently obvious that only those in denial would dispute them. Temple seems to have gone to considerably more trouble to make his findings than anyone else has to prove otherwise. Perhaps we can agree that cats *seem* to be killing too many birds and other creatures - - wherever that line (number) is. There are steps cat owners can take to ensure that their ability to enjoy cats is not in conflict with the "bird groups" ability to enjoy bids. Keep them indoors. That may be inconveinient to *you*, but who chose to have a cat? rsquared > Honest question: Why would "bird groups" have an "agenda against > cats"? As a group they strike me as educated, animal loving folks. Oo! Oo! I'll get this one! Because cats EAT birds, you f.cking genius? lol Now, what was so hard about admitting that cats are eating birds? Wasn't the point of the referenced post to suggest that Temple's research, claiming that cats are eating birds, flawed? So, by your own generous admission, it seems the "bird groups" anti-cat agenda has some basis in reality. At least we can stop playing coy about the problem now. rsquared > Now, what was so hard about admitting that cats are eating birds? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > rsquared If you include a snippet of the post to which you are responding, you autoeroticist you, we might have some inkling of what the hell you are talking about. HTH. HAND. > <<SNIP>> > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Honest question: Why would "bird groups" have an "agenda against > cats"? As a group they strike me as educated, animal loving folks. Are you kidding? I've dealt with bird and eco groups - some of them are truly vicious and have a deep seated hatred for cats because they think (with Temple's help) cats are killing off the songbirds - among other species. > Unproven doesn't mean *false*. OK, perhaps deceptive would be a better word. He cites his own guesses from his own past unreliable articles in his own new articles implying that his guesses were actually published, scientific data. After his guesses were publicly questioned and challenged, he admitted in On The Prowl "No one has collected enough data to definitively predict the number of birds killed by rural free-ranging cats" - yet he *still* cites his own guesses - without mentioning they're his own guesses - as if - implies - they're hard scientific data. > My neighbor's cat used to leave about a half dozen insects, lizards, > birds, on the door mat, every couple of weeks - - even more in the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > really see him do it, and they might have already been dead when he > found them? Absolutely! Cats also scavange. There was a study in England that addressed that very issue. . > Some things are so patently obvious that only those in denial would > dispute them. Temple seems to have gone to considerably more trouble > to make his findings than anyone else has to prove otherwise. Sure, as long as the bird groups keep funding his "studies", ole Temp will keep guessing. > Perhaps we can agree that cats *seem* to be killing too many birds and > other creatures - - wherever that line (number) is. No can do. There's not enough reliable data to even prove the cats are responsible for the decline in certain bird populations. Even there was, cats would be improving the bird species by cleansing their gene pools of the slow, stupid birds! LOL! > There are steps cat owners can take to ensure that their ability to > enjoy cats is not in conflict with the "bird groups" ability to enjoy > bids. This isn't about owned cats - its about ferals. > Keep them indoors. That may be inconveinient to *you*, but who chose > to have a cat? Oh yeah, you've got the right one! Keeping cats indoors is definitely and inconvenience for me! LOL! You must be new around here. > > DNR Vows No "Open Season" on Cats > > Apr 12, 2005, 12:55 PM [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Phil At least the Chicago Tribune had the decency to point out that the notion in Wisconsin that feral cats are responsible for decimating songbird populations is solely based on Temple's dubious extrapolations. In fact far more birds have been killed off due to West Nile virus and loss of habitat. WNV has meant that certain species of birds have completely vanished from various locations and they have not yet returned. If this proposal becomes law, which I doubt, it will seriously curtail our usual vacations in Wisconsin. One of the main reasons we go is to be able to take our cats for walks in the woods--and who's to say some trigger-happy cat hunter won't blast away even when a cat is collared and leashed. From how far away can you tell whether a cat is wearing a collar? > > > DNR Vows No "Open Season" on Cats > > > Apr 12, 2005, 12:55 PM [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > and leashed. From how far away can you tell whether a cat is wearing a > collar? What's stopping some gun-crazed lunatic from removing the collars after he kills the cats? I never understood the hunter's mentality. If they want a challenge, join the Army or better yet - the gung ho Marines - oh wait - that's too dangerous because the prey shoots back.... >> > > DNR Vows No "Open Season" on Cats >> > > Apr 12, 2005, 12:55 PM [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > the Army or better yet - the gung ho Marines - oh wait - that's too > dangerous because the prey shoots back.... LOL! I hear ya Phil. I've always said, if you want to show me how macho you are Mr. Hunter, so hunt grizzlies with only a pocket knife! Hugs, CatNipped Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of stupidity is for smart (wo)men to do nothing." -CatNipped <SNIP> > > I never understood the hunter's mentality. If they want a challenge, join > > the Army or better yet - the gung ho Marines - oh wait - that's too [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > CatNipped I've said it before... The USA has the right to bear arms. In Canada, we have the right to arm Bears.... Evens the odds in hunting season... ;-) Mathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas > I've said it before... The USA has the right to bear arms. I prefer bear claws. / mmmm....chocolate... Signature-- ~kaeli~ Acupuncture is a jab well done. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace (...) > I never understood the hunter's mentality. If they want a challenge, join > the Army or better yet - the gung ho Marines - oh wait - that's too > dangerous because the prey shoots back.... Well, the Marines don't get to eat their prey. Usually. Steve. > (...) > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Usually. ...and the Wussconsin hunters plan to eat the cats they kill? > (...) > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Well, the Marines don't get to eat their prey. Well, maybe hunters eat the mourning doves they kill but I have a suspicion not too many plan to eat feral cats. -Yngver > > > > DNR Vows No "Open Season" on Cats > > > > Apr 12, 2005, 12:55 PM [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > the Army or better yet - the gung ho Marines - oh wait - that's too > dangerous because the prey shoots back.... That's why I think even if the law passes, it will be rescinded when enough people's prized pets get shot--especially when some drunken hunter shoots someone's Yorkshire terrier and claims he thought it was a feral cat. This is really not about saving birds--this proposal passed because there are a lot of cat-haters out there, apparently dying for a chance to shoot them legally. Because obviously there are far more humane ways to deal with feral cat populations. In addition, exactly where are these feral cats that hunters will be gunning for located? Out in the country side, I don't see a lot of feral cats. You see the occasional farm cat roaming, but they are owned. Aren't most feral populations in cities and suburbs, where firing weapons is or ought to be illegal? Urban areas in Wisconsin voted strongly against the proposal. So is it basically hunting afficionados who want to kill barn cats? Wisconsin also voted a few years to allow the shooting of mourning doves. So again, the point is not to save birds, unless that means saving birds from cats so that hunters can shoot them themselves. They are also considering lowering the hunting age from 12 to 10--now, that is really scary, assuming a ten year old can tell a feral cat from the neighbor's collar-wearing Maine Coon. -Yngver > > > > > DNR Vows No "Open Season" on Cats > > > > > Apr 12, 2005, 12:55 PM [quoted text clipped - 115 lines] > neighbor's collar-wearing Maine Coon. > -Yngver A 10-12 year-old with a weapon, that is scary - although some hunters seem to have the same mentality. Wasn't there an issue, a few years ago, about prohibiting importing articles made of cat fur? Maybe there's an ulterior motive behind this stupidity and the birds are simply a red herring. Phil > This is really not about saving birds--this proposal passed because > there are a lot of cat-haters out there, apparently dying for a chance [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Urban areas in Wisconsin voted strongly against the proposal. So is it > basically hunting afficionados who want to kill barn cats? > -Yngver I have noticed the same thing. In my experience, the problem is in developed areas where cats (racoons, possums, armadillos) are living off the fat of human waste. Where there are rats, there will be cats. It's a stretch, but the only path I can see may be as a way to streamline the extermination process for professional pest control businesses. Under existing laws, they can probably kill rats, but have to capture cats. It may have little or nothing to do with the people we think of as "hunters". I do not hunt, but I hike often. I can't recall ever seeing a cat that was deep in the woods, and I have stumbled into many equally shy/timid creatures. In defense of hunters, most states require some amount of safety training and education before licensing them to go out and shoot. The same should be required before someone can purchase a domestic animal. It may address the shock of responsibility and cycle of abandonment & neglect. In Wisconsin, it is illegal to fire a rifle within so many feet of road. Apparently, enough people had the bad judgement to try this and they had to make a law. rsquared P.S. - I also saw the piece about reducing the hunting age to ten. As hard as I looked, I could see no reference to what level of supervision might be required for ten-year-olds. That doesn't mean it is not there; I just couldn't find it. > > This is really not about saving birds--this proposal passed because > > there are a lot of cat-haters out there, apparently dying for a [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > to capture cats. It may have little or nothing to do with the people > we think of as "hunters". Well, the proposal originated with a hunter who was upset at seeing cat tracks near his bird feeder. Of course, that doesn't mean it was a feral cat, but that's their assumption. > I do not hunt, but I hike often. I can't recall ever seeing a cat that > was deep in the woods, and I have stumbled into many equally shy/timid > creatures. Agreed. I do a lot of hiking in Wisconsin woods too. Never came across a feral cat. As Phil has pointed out, cats are opportunistic feeders. They go where there are easy pickings. > In defense of hunters, most states require some amount of safety > training and education before licensing them to go out and shoot. The [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > road. Apparently, enough people had the bad judgement to try this and > they had to make a law. > rsquared I recall a case in which a hunter fired at a woman walking her dog along a road. Said he thought the dog was a deer. If a dog looks like a deer, imagine how many creatures can be mistaken for a feral cat, and thus okay to shoot at. -Yngver |
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