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Need advice on first aid for cuts

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Henry - 10 Apr 2005 14:02 GMT
In trying to cut out severe hair mats from my longhaired cat on
Saturday, even though I thought I had safely inserted a comb under the
mat, I ended up snipping out a chunk of his skin smaller than a dime.
I'm pretty certain it was only the first layer (the hide), and it did
not bleed much.  He does not seem distressed about it.  I immediately
shaved the area with electric clippers, cleaned it with peroxide and
applied triple antibiotic ointment.

I am wondering:  should such a wound be sutured as well, or is it
likely to heal and close up without suturing?  I am currently
unemployed and really cannot afford the vet right now.  If it needs
suturing, is it something I can do myself with, say, cotton thread and
a regular sewing needle?  If so, does anyone have any guidelines?

Henry
St. Louis, MO
---MIKE--- - 10 Apr 2005 14:16 GMT
This sounded believable until he got to the do-it-yourself suturing.
Now I think he's a troll.  Also, if he could shave the area with
clippers, why would he try to cut out the mat?

                 ---MIKE---
Smokie Darling (Annie) - 10 Apr 2005 17:35 GMT
> This sounded believable until he got to the do-it-yourself suturing.
> Now I think he's a troll.  Also, if he could shave the area with
> clippers, why would he try to cut out the mat?
>
>                   ---MIKE---

Not saying it isn't a troll, but...  I've a cat that I have to cut mats
off of, because if her skin comes up, the clippers will cut her badly.
So, I cut out the mats, then "clipper" what I can of the rest of her
fur (before going to the vet for the closer shave).

Smokie Darling (Annie) - she isn't fond of sitting still for the
cutting out of mats either, but we manage.
sriddles@aol.com - 10 Apr 2005 17:57 GMT
> This sounded believable until he got to the do-it-yourself suturing.
> Now I think he's a troll.  Also, if he could shave the area with
> clippers, why would he try to cut out the mat?
>
>                   ---MIKE---

I vote troll. Besides the obvious, someone who cares enough about their
cat to cut out mats, is going to care enough NOT to cause that kind of
pain to it. And even a completete and total idiot wouldn't sincerely
ask the "cotton thread and needle" question. Not to say there aren't
real, live, dolts out there who DO stitch up their own pets' wounds.
There are. But they don't ask how to do it on a cat newsgroup.  Troll
bait.

Sherry
Mathew Kagis - 10 Apr 2005 20:57 GMT
<sriddles@aol.com> wrote in message

<SNIP>

> I vote troll. Besides the obvious, someone who cares enough about their
> cat to cut out mats, is going to care enough NOT to cause that kind of
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Sherry

Well, in case it is'nt a troll (which I doubt).  You can use Calendula (made
into tea) as a topical anti-bioti/ anti-bacterial, just wash it a couple of
times a day & watch the wound for infection, unless it's REAL deep, let it
heal on it's own.
Mathew
Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat
En Vino Veritas
Henry - 11 Apr 2005 05:51 GMT
Just what the hell do you all mean by a "troll" anyway?  I am truly
disappointed by all this smug judgment  among what appears to be a
closed clique.
Mary - 11 Apr 2005 06:07 GMT
> Just what the hell do you all mean by a "troll" anyway?  I am truly
> disappointed by all this smug judgment  among what appears to be a
> closed clique.

It really is not a closed clique--that I promise you. There are people
who post upsetting things just to get a rise out of cat people. If you
step back and look at your post as objectively as you can you might
see that having someone ask about suturing his own cat appears it
might be one of those.

You need to take the animal to a vet--but you know that. Just do it.
Henry - 11 Apr 2005 05:56 GMT
As a matter of fact, there's an ad for Ethicon suture material among
the sponsored links on the margin of  this very website.  If suturing
material is available there, it seems to imply that users of this news
group might do their own suturing.  Otherwise, why would they be
advertising here?
Mary - 11 Apr 2005 06:09 GMT
> As a matter of fact, there's an ad for Ethicon suture material among
> the sponsored links on the margin of  this very website.  If suturing
> material is available there, it seems to imply that users of this news
> group might do their own suturing.  Otherwise, why would they be
> advertising here?

Henry--this is Usenet. Not a web site at all, though you might be
accessing it via a web site. Your posts are reaching the entire world
and are archived. There are no ads in usenet.

Can you even imagine how much it would hurt your cat to be sewn
up with no anesthetic? If you are serious, then you are stupid. Take
the cat to a vet and stop screwing around. Can't you spare the $25?
Jesus.
Smokie Darling (Annie) - 11 Apr 2005 17:32 GMT
> > As a matter of fact, there's an ad for Ethicon suture material among
> > the sponsored links on the margin of  this very website.  If suturing
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> the cat to a vet and stop screwing around. Can't you spare the $25?
> Jesus.

I think Henry is posting through Google as I do.  The thing with Google
is...  They "read" the post and place ads that correspond with the
content (that's what they talked about doing with their email accounts,
having a software read the email and place ads accordingly on people's
computers).

Henry, it isn't that people here are comfortable with, or able to,
suturing their own cats.  Too many things can go wrong, you run the
risk of infection or further injury.  Just take the baby to a vet and
see what they say.  Hopefully, no stitches necessary.

Smokie Darling (Annie)
Mary - 11 Apr 2005 18:30 GMT
> > > As a matter of fact, there's an ad for Ethicon suture material
> among
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Smokie Darling (Annie)

Nicely said, Annie. Google *is* a website, though!
Smokie Darling (Annie) - 11 Apr 2005 20:26 GMT
> > > > As a matter of fact, there's an ad for Ethicon suture material
> > among
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> > > accessing it via a web site. Your posts are reaching the entire world
> > > and are archived. There are no ads in usenet.
< <snipped> >

< <snipped> >

> Nicely said, Annie. Google *is* a website, though!

Yes, my mistake.  Didn't read your post "for clarity", and missed the
website mention you made.  Guess I should slow my reading down, or
somehow figure how to "up" my comprehension (hahahaha, like *that* will
happen).

Smokie Darling (Annie)
Mary - 11 Apr 2005 22:57 GMT
> > > > > As a matter of fact, there's an ad for Ethicon suture material
> > > among
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
> Smokie Darling (Annie)

Even Goddesses make mistakes. :) My point was just that there
are lots of people who do not understand what Usenet is, so I
wanted the poster to know it was different from the www. I think
"CatKB" ought to let people know that the web site is a conduit
for their posts to make it to Usenet and be archived forever, too.
Henry - 12 Apr 2005 13:32 GMT
$25 I could and would spare, but I don't have the $150 or more that I
was quoted by the one vet who was still open on late Saturday.  The
emergency clinic would have been even more.  I'm willing to spend money
on my 9 cats when I have an income again.

Henry
Mary - 12 Apr 2005 16:21 GMT
> $25 I could and would spare, but I don't have the $150 or more that I
> was quoted by the one vet who was still open on late Saturday.  The
> emergency clinic would have been even more.  I'm willing to spend money
> on my 9 cats when I have an income again.

I see. Well please don't even consider sewing them up again.
-L. - 11 Apr 2005 00:23 GMT
> In trying to cut out severe hair mats from my longhaired cat on
> Saturday, even though I thought I had safely inserted a comb under the
> mat, I ended up snipping out a chunk of his skin smaller than a dime.

Don't suture your own cat.  Keep an eye on the wound.  If it begins to
swell or look red, or gets a crusty yellow cap on top, take him to a
vet.  If you cannot take him to a vet, call your local HS and ask if
they have any recommendations on how to get him treated at low-cost or
no-cost.  You can clean the wound with peroxide or benzalconium
chloride (Bactine makes a sting-free wash that is OTC).  And druy it
well.  I wouldn't over-dress t with triple antibiotic ointment, as this
can cause anerobic infections under the skin.  The wond needs to
"breathe".

Best of luck.  If you need more advice, email me.

-L.
Henry - 11 Apr 2005 05:47 GMT
This is the first time I posted on this site, and I can't believe the
smug, uncompassionate responses from so many, other than yourself, to
my  questions asked in good faith.  It certainly discourages any
newcomer from risking any inquiry.

I was afraid I might be mistreating my cat by NOT suturing the wound.
I have known of farmers who sutured wounds on their various farm
animals.  The emergency clinic would have cost me over $150, which I
don't have, IF they had to suture the wound, although they said the
wound that I described often does not need suturing.  So far the wound
looks good (if a wound can look "good")--none of the signs you
described.  Actually, the clinic recommended cleaning the wound with
peroxide, applying Neosporin and keeping an eye on it for the signs you
described.  So far, so good.

So, can I expect new skin and hair to grow over the wound eventually?

And just what IS an effective and safe way to remove hair mats?  My cat
develops them every winter, and by spring he is miserable with them,
with dry, flaking skin underneath.  The last time the vet saw him, he
criticised me for not grooming my cat to get the mats out.  My cat is
miserable about combing out the mats.  A detangling spray and a comb
with rolling teeth didn't do the trick.  My clippers only work on
unmatted fur and have a very difficult time penetrating a mat.  And
I've seen the danger of using scissors, even with a comb (seemingly)
underneath.

Henry
Mathew Kagis - 11 Apr 2005 07:43 GMT
> This is the first time I posted on this site, and I can't believe the
> smug, uncompassionate responses from so many, other than yourself, to
> my  questions asked in good faith.  It certainly discourages any
> newcomer from risking any inquiry.

Henry: Understand, there are alot of 'trolls' out there in Cyberspace....
Suspicion is further raised by the fact that an incredibly similar post
showed up in rec.pets.cats at almost EXACTLY the same time, under a
different name....  I gave my two cents worth anyway, if you were genuine...
If you are, please keep us updated on your cat's condition.
Cheers.

Signature

Mathew
Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat
En Vino Veritas

-L. - 11 Apr 2005 08:39 GMT
> This is the first time I posted on this site, and I can't believe the
> smug, uncompassionate responses from so many, other than yourself, to
> my  questions asked in good faith.  It certainly discourages any
> newcomer from risking any inquiry.

Don't take it personally.  Usenet is like a street corner - anyone can
wander by and comment.  You have to take it all- the good, bad and the
ugly. :)  You learn pretty quickly whom to ignore.

> I was afraid I might be mistreating my cat by NOT suturing the wound.
> I have known of farmers who sutured wounds on their various farm
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> So, can I expect new skin and hair to grow over the wound eventually?

yes.  It should start to look much better within a few days.  One
reason I said to NOT use Neosporin too religiously is that you want it
to scab over - and the ointment will prohibit that, as well as block
oxygen from getting to it.  It needs oxygen to heal properly.  So, I
would say, yes, neosporin for a couple days ifs fine - after that, I'd
let it "dry up" and start to scab.

> And just what IS an effective and safe way to remove hair mats?  My cat
> develops them every winter, and by spring he is miserable with them,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> Henry

I used to be a groomer.  My advice is to (if and when you can afford
it) get your cat shaved very short, and bathed with a soothing or
medicated shampoo.  Then begin grooming daily with a medium-toothed
metal grooming comb.  The hair that causes matts is the undercoat and
you really beed to keep the undercoat combed out to keep matts away.

As for shaving off matts - you have to get underneath the "edge" of
them and  kind of "scoop" the shaver up, into the matt.  It is a
repetitive motion, always ending with the clipper sort of pointing up.
This will lift the matt and the fur, and allow the hairs to be cut.
Sometimes the clipper will only cut a little hair at a time.  What kind
of clipper are you using?  If you are using a grooming clipper designed
for human hair it may not be adequate to do the trick.  If you are
using an animal grooming clipper, you may need a new blade.  I *never*
recommend using scissors because more often than not, the cat gets cut.
You were lucky - even having been professionally trained, I have cut a
cat with a clipper, even, to the extent that it needed sutures.  It's
just a tricky job and even with experience it is easy to make mistakes.
I would still recommend forgetting about the scissors though - just
way too risky.

As for general grooming, I never used anything but combs
(teflon-coated, metal, medium-toothed).  Brushes just add to the
matting problem by not removing the undercoat adequately.  The
technique you want to use is to start at the *back* of the cat, lift up
some hair and comb the hair that remains toward the back of the cat
(toward the tail), in the direction the hair grows.  Release some hair
from that which you had lifetd, and repeat the strokes.  Then just
gradually work your way up toward the front of the cat. It's easier to
show you than explain. ;P  It will take a good 30-45 minutes to cob a
cat with thick fur adequately.

Anyway, good luck, and keep us posted on how your kitty does..  What
you are encountering is exactly why I have short-haired cats. ;)

-L.
John Doe - 11 Apr 2005 09:11 GMT
>> This is the first time I posted on this site, and I can't
>> believe the smug, uncompassionate responses from so many, other
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> good, bad and the ugly. :)  You learn pretty quickly whom to
> ignore.

Yup, it's a public place, with every imaginable personallity (and
then some). That applies to original posters too.
Mary - 11 Apr 2005 14:56 GMT
> >> This is the first time I posted on this site, and I can't
> >> believe the smug, uncompassionate responses from so many, other
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Yup, it's a public place, with every imaginable personallity (and
> then some). That applies to original posters too.

Wow, enlightenment runs rampant to day. It's good to see.
Mary - 11 Apr 2005 13:52 GMT
> > This is the first time I posted on this site, and I can't believe the
> > smug, uncompassionate responses from so many, other than yourself, to
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> wander by and comment.  You have to take it all- the good, bad and the
> ugly. :)  You learn pretty quickly whom to ignore.

Oh my! Lynnie has become enlightened. How nice. :)
Henry - 12 Apr 2005 13:37 GMT
Thanks for the grooming tip.  I had been using a metal comb with
wide-spaced teeth, combing all unmatted hair away from each mat, then
gently working on the mat.  Because I have done a little each day since
spring began, his mats are not as bad as in previous springtimes, but
he still has a few.  My other longhair cats do not have this
problem--just the one cat.  Right now I am not inclined to stress him
further and risk reopening the wound.  He doesn't exactly sit still
when I try to comb him.

Henry
Diane L. Schirf - 12 Apr 2005 13:47 GMT
> Thanks for the grooming tip.  I had been using a metal comb with
> wide-spaced teeth, combing all unmatted hair away from each mat, then
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> further and risk reopening the wound.  He doesn't exactly sit still
> when I try to comb him.

Have you ever used a rake? I discovered them late in Pudge's life, and
they did wonders on keeping her mat free.

Signature

http://www.slywy.com/

sriddles@aol.com - 11 Apr 2005 11:35 GMT
> This is the first time I posted on this site, and I can't believe the
> smug, uncompassionate responses from so many, other than yourself, to
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> peroxide, applying Neosporin and keeping an eye on it for the signs you
> described.  So far, so good.

I apologize for blowing off your original post. We so often have
posters who come on and say outrageous things, then sit back and watch
the fallout. I was just incredulous, and still am, that a cat owner
could inflict the kind of pain it would take to suture a wound without
any kind of anesthetic. That's why I thought your post was not a
sincere one.
I am really glad the wound is healing on its own. The only thing I
would add is that, I wonder if the clinic intended that you clean the
wound only *initially* with peroxide. Continued use of peroxide will
hinder the healing. As it destroys bacteria, it also destroys the new
skin cells that are trying to form.

Sherry
-L. - 11 Apr 2005 17:02 GMT
> I apologize for blowing off your original post. We so often have
> posters who come on and say outrageous things, then sit back and watch
> the fallout. I was just incredulous, and still am, that a cat owner
> could inflict the kind of pain it would take to suture a wound without
> any kind of anesthetic.

Unfortunately, a lot of people think it's ok to do some suturing.  We
saw it a few times at the cat hospital - infected wounds that became so
after home suturing.

-L.
kaeli - 11 Apr 2005 18:56 GMT
> > I apologize for blowing off your original post. We so often have
> > posters who come on and say outrageous things, then sit back and
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> saw it a few times at the cat hospital - infected wounds that became so
> after home suturing.

That may be because small wounds on humans often get done at the ER with no
anesthetic. I know -- I've been there.  *ouch!*

People, please keep in mind that doctors *sterilize* things (and disinfect
the wound) -- and you can TELL the doctor when it hurts!

Signature

--
~kaeli~
I love God. It's His fanclub that I can't stand.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

sriddles@aol.com - 12 Apr 2005 05:00 GMT
> > I apologize for blowing off your original post. We so often have
> > posters who come on and say outrageous things, then sit back and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> -L.

I don't have a problem believing that at all. We heard about a man who
performed a do-it-your-self rear leg amputation on a kitten with a
hacksaw. Miraculously, the kitten survived.

Sherry
sriddles@aol.com - 12 Apr 2005 05:00 GMT
> > I apologize for blowing off your original post. We so often have
> > posters who come on and say outrageous things, then sit back and
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> -L.

I don't have a problem believing that at all. We heard about a man who
performed a do-it-your-self rear leg amputation on a kitten with a
hacksaw. Miraculously, the kitten survived.

Sherry
kitkat - 12 Apr 2005 05:13 GMT
> I don't have a problem believing that at all. We heard about a man who
> performed a do-it-your-self rear leg amputation on a kitten with a
> hacksaw. Miraculously, the kitten survived.
>
> Sherry

That just made me woozy. HACKSAW?!?!?!!!! WTF??!
sriddles@aol.com - 12 Apr 2005 05:50 GMT
> > I don't have a problem believing that at all. We heard about a man who
> > performed a do-it-your-self rear leg amputation on a kitten with a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> That just made me woozy. HACKSAW?!?!?!!!! WTF??!

Ugh. It was an awful story. The guy claimed the kitten had gotten
mangled in the fan blade of the car, and he took what was left of it
off. Apparently this had happened several months earlier, and the
three-legged cat was doing just fine.
He thought he had done a good thing. He was a real backward type. We
did tell him that should something like that come up again, please
check with us and we might have funds available for vet care.
Those types are hard to deal with. In their own backward way, they
think they are taking care of the animal. All you can do is try the
best you can to educate them, and if money is the only issue that keeps
them from using a vet, to allocate some funds for them. For the cat's
sake. Our mission statement, after all, is to relieve suffering in all
animals. I don't think that's too much of stretch that we can't use
donors' money now and then that way. Or sometimes our own.

Sherry
sriddles@aol.com - 12 Apr 2005 05:51 GMT
> > I don't have a problem believing that at all. We heard about a man who
> > performed a do-it-your-self rear leg amputation on a kitten with a
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> That just made me woozy. HACKSAW?!?!?!!!! WTF??!
Mathew Kagis - 12 Apr 2005 10:07 GMT
> > > I don't have a problem believing that at all. We heard about a man
> who
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> >
> > That just made me woozy. HACKSAW?!?!?!!!! WTF??!

Sherry, Sherry... Did you know, know... That all of your posts, posts. are
appearing twice, twice?

Cheers
Mathew
Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat
En Vino Veritas
Mary - 12 Apr 2005 16:17 GMT
> > > > I don't have a problem believing that at all. We heard about a man
> > who
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Sherry, Sherry... Did you know, know... That all of your posts, posts. are
> appearing twice, twice?

And did you, Mathew, know that all of your posts are appearing once?
Is there something you could do about that for me?
-L. - 12 Apr 2005 16:25 GMT
> Sherry, Sherry... Did you know, know... That all of your posts, posts. are
> appearing twice, twice?
>
> Cheers
> > --
> Mathew

It's probably a Google thing (I think Sherry is posting in Google).  It
was having difficulties over the last few days - sometimes it will tell
you the server is down and your post hasn't been posted when it
actually has.  I think they are working on the software.

-L.
Henry - 12 Apr 2005 13:24 GMT
I am appalled that there are the kind of people you describe.  But now
that you mention it, I am aware  that there seems to be a certain group
of people who are pathological cat haters--yet there doesn't seem to be
a dog-hating counterpart.  Witness some of the bumper stickers out
there.  I do find that upsetting.  I can love cats without hating dogs,
in fact, still like dogs--but I don't seem to find the reverse as
often.

Anyway, Rumpelson's wound seems to be doing nicely so far.  Since the
wound was only in the skin layer and not down into the flesh, and
since he didn't "seem" distressed by the wound, I wondered if suturing
that top layer might be tolerable.  I also had read something about
using Steri-Strips and Superglue to approximate the edges of the wound.
Maybe that would have been more benign.  In any case, he seems to be
doing well, and it's probably too late to close the wound further.
Henry
sriddles@aol.com - 12 Apr 2005 22:32 GMT
> I am appalled that there are the kind of people you describe.  But now
> that you mention it, I am aware  that there seems to be a certain group
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> doing well, and it's probably too late to close the wound further.
> Henry

Hmm. That's something to think about. I wonder, too. I had open-heart
surgery and the surgeons closed the top layer with crazy glue. There
were no outside stitches at all.
On second thought, it was probably the medical-industry counterpart to
Crazy Glue. Or more likely Crazy Glue in a different package and
costing $500 an ounce or something.

Sherry
Mary - 12 Apr 2005 23:21 GMT
> > Anyway, Rumpelson's wound seems to be doing nicely so far.  Since the
> > wound was only in the skin layer and not down into the flesh, and
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> On second thought, it was probably the medical-industry counterpart to
> Crazy Glue.

One would hope! LOL!!

> Or more likely Crazy Glue in a different package and
> costing $500 an ounce or something.

Makes sense to me.
-L. - 13 Apr 2005 00:48 GMT
sridd...@aol.com wrote:
> Hmm. That's something to think about. I wonder, too. I had open-heart
> surgery and the surgeons closed the top layer with crazy glue. There
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Sherry

LOL...no, dear, it was surgical glue.  Different beast. :)

-L.
mlbriggs - 22 Apr 2005 23:16 GMT
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:32:18 -0700, sriddles wrote:

>> I am appalled that there are the kind of people you describe.  But
> now
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
>
> Sherry

Going "way "way back, before the turn of the old century, my father (12 at
the time) got in a fight with a brother.  The brother hit my father in the
head with an ax and split his head,  My grandfather glued his wound with
ordinary glue.  The wound healed without infection and left no scar.
Note:  We can't choose our relatives!   MLB
Mary - 22 Apr 2005 23:42 GMT
> On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:32:18 -0700, sriddles wrote:
>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> ordinary glue.  The wound healed without infection and left no scar.
> Note:  We can't choose our relatives!   MLB

Wow! What a killer story. They may have been volatile, but they
sure were smart and tough as nails!
 
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