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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / April 2005

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Anti-inflammatory shots after spaying and neutering

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Shaka Shiva - 09 Apr 2005 13:56 GMT
Is this usual or frequent in other(your) clinics?
Its a new thing at my vets.  I just had three cats sterilized this week, two
females and one male.   I had another one neutered right last summer and
this new addition (especially to the bill) was not present back then.   I've
never seen problems with excessive pain whenever I had cats sterilized in
the past.  I know cats hide it well, but this operation I believe is well
tolerated.
I even think its a bad Idea.  They give me a little pamphlet saying to keep
your animals calm and don't let them get into high activity (!!).    Well
its always been natural after spaying and neutering before.  The cat came
home, found a comfy spot and slept there most of the time for the next 48
hours 'recovering' calmly and surely.   My three new cats, when I took them
home yesterday, were going around chasing each other for games and they were
not even 15 min out of the carrier!   If they were not so numb to the
discomforts of the procedure, maybe it would be easier to keep them calm.
Another way for the pharmaceutical mafia to reach for our remaining pennies,
IMO.
'Tolfedine' is what we got.

Elaine
Spot - 09 Apr 2005 14:41 GMT
None of my cats have ever had pain meds to go home on for spaying.  The only
time I've ever had a cat come home on pain medication was when Mushkins leg
had to be amputated for cancer.  Even then she was off the medication if 3
days.

I think you are right if they weren't so doped up they probably would have
found a place to sleep comfortable for a day or so.

I think I'd take this up with the vet the next time you see them and ask why
they are doing this now.

Celeste

> Is this usual or frequent in other(your) clinics?
> Its a new thing at my vets.  I just had three cats sterilized this week, two
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Elaine
bookbug2005 - 09 Apr 2005 20:29 GMT
>'Tolfedine' is what we got.

I had my cat neutered about 6 weeks ago, and the vet tech asked me if I
wanted post-op pain meds for my cat.  It was listed as torbutrol, so
while obviously not the same exact med as your cats had, I'm not sure
if it might not be in the same category.  She told me the effect would
last about 3 days.  It had been years since I last had a cat fixed, and
that one was a female.  I really didn't know how to respond, but erred
on the side of caution thinking I'd sure as hell want pain meds.  It
was an extra $15.  Like you, I was admonished to keep my kitty quiet,
no running, jumping, etc.  Well, yeah right.  HA!  He was groggy the
evening of the surgery when we brought him home, and although a little
quiet it the next day, he still had a bout of rambunctiousness.  So, I
don't know what to think.

Michelle
Shaka Shiva - 10 Apr 2005 01:25 GMT
> >'Tolfedine' is what we got.
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Michelle

Thanks for your input.   You had the option though.  Your vet offered it.
It was an obligation at my clinic.
I hate to medicate unecessarily.  And since we know they recover very well
without the painkillers as it as always been before, it annoys me to see how
they throw in this extra just for profit.

Elaine
-L. - 10 Apr 2005 02:37 GMT
> Thanks for your input.   You had the option though.  Your vet offered it.
> It was an obligation at my clinic.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Elaine

FWIW, I worked in a high-volume feline specialty hospital, and we
*always* gave spayed cats pain meds.  Always.  No choice.  Spay surgery
can be hard on a cat - especially an older cat.  So I don't think
giving the meds was unusual or unwarranted.

-L.
Phil P. - 10 Apr 2005 09:59 GMT
"Shaka Shiva" <chakashiva@yahoo.ca> wrote in message >
> Thanks for your input.   You had the option though.  Your vet offered it.
> It was an obligation at my clinic.

And rightly so for all but kittens.

> I hate to medicate unecessarily.  And since we know they recover very well
> without the painkillers as it as always been before,

Not so.  Current research now shows that post-op pain has been grossly
underestimated in cats.  This is another reason why kittens should be
neutered young - 8-12 weeks - less trauma to tissue due to less muscle and
fat.

it annoys me to see how
> they throw in this extra just for profit.

Pain meds aren't included just for profit - they're for the cats' comfort.
Pain meds aren't an option with our vets - and I wouldn't have it any other
way.  Wouldn't you want pain meds after surgery - especially after a major
surgery?

Phil
Shaka Shiva - 10 Apr 2005 13:38 GMT
> "Shaka Shiva" <chakashiva@yahoo.ca> wrote in message >
> > Thanks for your input.   You had the option though.  Your vet offered it.
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Phil

How does it work for you at your clinic?  What do they give you?   I had a
cat neutered last summer at the very same clinic, and on my invoice I have
only the castration appearing, with the total price.   Now, about 8 months
later, I have castration for the little male for the same price, + the
tolfedine shot with the added cost.  The females had the shots plus some
extra pills to take at home.  How did they proceed before?  Is this new?  Is
painkillers now have been used only since this year??
Or was it something that was naturally included in the procedure and simply
not appeared on the invoice?
I am not debating that the cats need it or not.  I don't know how the
procedure goes usually.  If the meds didn't appear on the invoice before, is
it that it came all included in the operation?
Everyone I asked that had a cat sterilized in the latest years had none of
this appear.  No one had problems.  Then I am guessing that the pain shots
were given but not detailed on the invoice, simply included in the operation
deal.    Now they have decided to add it on the invoice, and with an extra
15% cost.
What do you think?
Don't go receiving this as cheapness.  I want and give everything best for
my animals.    But *subtile* price augmentation tricks nowadays are multiple
quiet attacks that just adds on and on and on every day, you know.     At
least, in Quebec.
I was also charged for prescription!!
Elaine
Shaka Shiva - 10 Apr 2005 18:35 GMT
> I am not debating that the cats need it or not.

Actually, I should take that back.   I don't know how they proceded before.
Was pain med shots used automatically with the operation?  Maybe.  In that
case it was just included in the whole price.
What I got is something added.   Any dog or cat I have had fixed in the past
have had no problem recuperating well from either spaying or neutering.
Some discomfort after a procedure is probably normal , but this goes well.
Anyone here who ever felt their pets lived through this with difficulty
because they had no pain killers to give them afterwards, please speak up.

This add on is good news for the pharmaceutic industry, but not very good
for the pet population control.
I find it sad.  Cost of life today is reaching limits for alot of people.
Those working at minimum wage barely can eat, and never mind eat
healthfully!!  This kind of people I meet everyday.  And getting a cat
fixed, although a good idea, can no longer end up on their priority
list...And I can't blame them.  When you don't have the dough, you just
dont.  I guess that is how I ended up picking up a family of very friendly
kittens on the side of a road one very cold afternoon.

Why don't they invest into raising public awareness on how important it is
to sterilize their pets instead of creating studies to come up with good
reasons to profit from you when you go in to do the right thing??    I won't
be convinced that this new pain killer addition to sterilizing, wich along
with the shot came in these little fancy boxes with the brand name clear and
colorful, was intended  truly for the good of the animals.  I've always been
the naive type but not this much.

Elaine
Monique Y. Mudama - 11 Apr 2005 17:53 GMT
> Why don't they invest into raising public awareness on how important
> it is to sterilize their pets instead of creating studies to come up
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Elaine

Okay, let's make a deal.  Have your uterus and ovaries removed, then
refuse any pain medication post-op.  Let us know how that goes for
you.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Mary - 11 Apr 2005 18:31 GMT
> > Why don't they invest into raising public awareness on how important
> > it is to sterilize their pets instead of creating studies to come up
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> refuse any pain medication post-op.  Let us know how that goes for
> you.

A fine idea!
kaeli - 11 Apr 2005 18:30 GMT
> Anyone here who ever felt their pets lived through this with difficulty
> because they had no pain killers to give them afterwards, please speak up.

*raises hand*
I had one of my dogs spayed and didn't get pain pills with it b/c we went to
the low-cost clinic (they don't give you pain meds). I will never NOT get
pills (ahead of time) for the poor animal again. If I need to go low-cost,
I'll still get pain meds from my regular vet.

I didn't realize they didn't dispense pain pills at the time (they didn't
tell me and I didn't think to ask, assuming they would since my vet always
did). I went to my regular vet the next day feeling guilty as hell, asking
for some pills for the poor dog.

YOU go get body parts ripped out and see how YOU feel the next couple of
days. FCOL, have a little sympathy.

Signature

--
~kaeli~
A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless
interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an
otherwise dull day.
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart
http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace

Phil P. - 11 Apr 2005 19:21 GMT
> Why don't they invest into raising public awareness on how important it is
> to sterilize their pets instead of creating studies to come up with good
> reasons to profit from you when you go in to do the right thing??

I don't follow your reasoning -- one has nothing to do with the other. Pain
medication benefits the cat in *any* surgical procedure.  The studies
weren't conducted just to rip people off for pain medication.

 I won't
> be convinced that this new pain killer addition to sterilizing, wich along
> with the shot came in these little fancy boxes with the brand name clear and
> colorful, was intended  truly for the good of the animals.

Would you like to have major abdominal surgery performed on you without pain
medication?  What makes you think cats feel any less pain than a human?
Don't you care about your cat's pain or are you just a cheapskate?
Shaka Shiva - 11 Apr 2005 20:08 GMT
> > Why don't they invest into raising public awareness on how important it is
> > to sterilize their pets instead of creating studies to come up with good
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> medication?  What makes you think cats feel any less pain than a human?
> Don't you care about your cat's pain or are you just a cheapskate?

Hey, please.   Why don't you give that speach to half the vets that don't
give the meds.    This attitude of the vets...'sometimes we do, sometimes we
don't'
is not very clear for us, for them or anyone else.    When is there a rip
off and when is there credibility?  Why don't they all agree so we can all
agree.  I surely don't want my pets in pain, but I don't want them and me to
be taken advantage of.

Animal suffering, while so insignificant to the majority of human beings in
life, especially many of those that amuse themselves 'studying' on them, is
the number one thing on my list of things absolutely unacceptable.

Its not little dirty crows(figure) that are sitting on their cellulite
building fat a.ses in front of their screens all day long looking for a half
open door to throw in insults at people they know nothing about that is
gonna make me doubt of my conscience.  (This last phrase is a message
directed to other responders wich don't even deserve mention and who cares
'cause I don't even remember their useless nicks)

Elaine
Phil P. - 11 Apr 2005 11:23 GMT
> > "Shaka Shiva" <chakashiva@yahoo.ca> wrote in message >
> > > Thanks for your input.   You had the option though.  Your vet offered
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> How does it work for you at your clinic?

I don't understand your question.  As I said, at my vet's clinic, pain
management isn't optional.

>What do they give you?

The bill.

I had a
> cat neutered last summer at the very same clinic, and on my invoice I have
> only the castration appearing, with the total price.   Now, about 8 months
> later, I have castration for the little male for the same price, + the
> tolfedine shot with the added cost.  The females had the shots plus some
> extra pills to take at home.  How did they proceed before?  Is this new?  Is
> painkillers now have been used only since this year??

In the past, many vets felt the anesthesia and the recovery period from
anesthesia "carried" the cats through any pain.  They were wrong.  They also
grossly underestimated post-op pain.

> Or was it something that was naturally included in the procedure and simply
> not appeared on the invoice?

Many vets didn't (many still don't) address post-op pain management.  If PM
wasn't on the bill, there probably wasn't any.

> I am not debating that the cats need it or not.  I don't know how the
> procedure goes usually.  If the meds didn't appear on the invoice before, is
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> 15% cost.
> What do you think?

I'm not sure I'm following you.  15% additional for pain management?

> Don't go receiving this as cheapness.  I want and give everything best for
> my animals.    But *subtile* price augmentation tricks nowadays are multiple
> quiet attacks that just adds on and on and on every day, you know.     At
> least, in Quebec.
> I was also charged for prescription!!

Medication to be administered at home?  That's a normal charge.

Vet-client relationship can also have an affect on the bill.  If you're a
steady and regular client, your vet might overlook a few small items.

Phil
PawsForThought - 11 Apr 2005 15:56 GMT
> Is this usual or frequent in other(your) clinics?

When my cats were neutered/spayed, they were given an injection of a
pain killer.  I can't remember off the top of my head what it was,
maybe something like torbegesic (sp).  My male was 5 months old and my
female was 6 months old when they were done.  The thinking (and
research) nowadays is that cats do indeed feel pain.  Imagine having a
hysterectomy and no pain killer.  No thanks!
Shaka Shiva - 11 Apr 2005 19:40 GMT
Ok, so I called my vet, and another vet in another town to get things clear
on this.
My vet, I asked, I had two male cats neutered within the last year.  One in
august 2004, the other, last week.
Q: Vishnou, from last year, has no Tolfedine injection shot appearing on the
invoice.
Kosy, my new male, had the injection...   why?
R:  They did not use it before, and they only started recently but they
aren't sure exactly when they started.... sometime last year, after summer
of course.
Q:  Females, have you always used the injection?
R:  Yes, yes, it has always been used.
Q:  Then you used it before but it did not appear on the invoice?   Because
Shiva, who I had sterilized at your clinic in '99, has no injection
appearing on the invoice.
R:  Must have been forgotten.

When I called the vet in the other town, he said he did not used
anti-inflammatory medication for sterilizing only.   He said that many
clinics do, but they(he) only used it if the operation is combined with
declawing (that hurt my stomach but I shut up)   He said some clinics use
it, others don't.  Its a matter of choice.    Tolfedine is what he uses also
when it applies.

So some vets do, some vets don't, some vets forget to include it on the
invoice....
All I can say is its hard to evaluate.   When I ask around, all who got cat
sterilized within the last years had none of the painkiller added.
Recoveries went well for all.   I saw no difference between Vishnou's
recovery and Kosy's, except that the new cats were very active when they
stepped out of the carrier, while Vishnou was calmer... but he was closer to
1 yr(at view) while the kittens are about 6-7 months old (at view also).
And the kittens spent about 6 more hours at the vet than V because I could
not get them earlier.

I don't know what to think.   If having the painkiller is best, then I will
make sure its on if there is a next time (but at 6 cats I'm feeling pretty
full now).  But to clinics and vets, please,  make the whole package,
operation and meds, stay at reasonnable prices so people, with modest
incomes, be encouraged to go on and have their pets sterilized.    Within 6
years the operation for the females has simply doubled.   Within a year it
went up 15% for males.

Elaine
PawsForThought - 12 Apr 2005 00:59 GMT
 I saw no difference between Vishnou's
> recovery and Kosy's, except that the new cats were very active when they
> stepped out of the carrier, while Vishnou was calmer

My cats were pretty active too when I picked them up.  But I attribute
that to the anesthesia that was used - isoflurane gas.  Cats will wake
up quicker and be more active when they do when they're given
isoflurane gas instead of an injectible like Ketamine.  So maybe your
cats were given Isoflurane this time, while perhaps in the past there
were given something else.

Lauren
 
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