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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / April 2005Apology
I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread regarding letting cats go roam outdoors. The subject has devolved to petty bickering and I will no longer take part in adding to the disturbance. Please forgive any upset or disruption I have caused here. -- Hugs, CatNipped http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ > I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my > frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > -- No! I for one am outraged! :) >> I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my >> frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > No! I for one am outraged! :) I know, I'm sorry. Please kill-file me - make sure to announce it to the group, though, so we'll all know you did it <squeezing my eyes shut> - is this gonna hurt??? ;> Hugs, CatNipped > >> I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my > >> frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > group, though, so we'll all know you did it <squeezing my eyes shut> - is > this gonna hurt??? ;> Naww. My killfile is bwoken. I prefer calling people do-do heads and laughing behind their backs. :) > I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been > subjected to my frustration, invective, and unladylike language [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > CatNipped > http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ Why yet another apology for your postings? This is what, 3 or 4 now? Why not just stand by the convictions of your original thoughts, since you felt the need to relay them? Unless something or someone is forcing you to post before you think about hitting the "send" button? Or, is it when you reread what you've posted that you feel a little stupid now? I have to add my own comment to your style: Your flame posts that end in "Hugs," cracks me up!! lol FWIW, the cat groups have a long and boring history of indoor vs. outdoor, and TBH, neither "side" is going to convince the other that its wrong or right. It does have its slightly entertaining side to me, though, 'cos I've been there. It gets old. But, it'll probably go on until Usenet is no more. Lets hope that time never comes.  SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields > > I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been > > subjected to my frustration, invective, and unladylike language [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > CatNipped > > http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ > Why yet another apology for your postings? Because I feel that in my "righteous anger" over what I perceived was endangerment to a creature that I adore I went way too far in spewing invective. > This is what, 3 or 4 > now? Oh probably lots more than that by now, I make lots of mistakes and probably will continue to make mistake until the day I die. I also hope I can continue to admit it and apologize when I do. > Why not just stand by the convictions of your original > thoughts, since you felt the need to relay them? Because I've cooled down and realized that by being petty and spiteful I was harming rather than furthering my cause. > Unless something > or someone is forcing you to post before you think about hitting > the "send" button? Nope, the only thing "forcing" me to post before I think is my anger at the moment and the entusiasm in displaying my admittedly lame wit at the expense of someone I am angry with. > Or, is it when you reread what you've posted > that you feel a little stupid now? Yes, frankly. > I have to add my own comment to your style: Your flame posts that > end in "Hugs," cracks me up!! lol Thank you, I'm glad I afforded you some amusement in my diatribes. > FWIW, the cat groups have a long and boring history of indoor vs. > outdoor, and TBH, neither "side" is going to convince the other > that its wrong or right. Yes, I've admitted I am fairly "new" (at least new again) to usenet. I've made a newbie mistake and fell into what must seem like deja vu to old hands here. > It does have its slightly entertaining > side to me, though, 'cos I've been there. I'm glad I've been able to provide you with entertainment, hopefully that's not the only good thing that came of the thread - I was at least hoping it would make some people stop and think before just doing something without considering the consequences. > It gets old. But, it'll > probably go on until Usenet is no more. Lets hope that time never > comes. At the risk of somehow annoying you again, again I apologize. ;? Hugs, CatNipped > -- > Cheryl > > "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited > breath." > - W.C. Fields > > It does have its slightly entertaining > > side to me, though, 'cos I've been there. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > would make some people stop and think before just doing something without > considering the consequences. It will. It is indeed, as Kenneth Patchen wrote, "a battle worthy of our weapons." > At the risk of somehow annoying you again, again I apologize. ;? Not annoyed at all. Just asking why you always feel the need to apologize. It just seemed like you were tag-teaming with Mary, because her whole goal here is to disrupt and name-call, not debate. You just seemed to be morphing her style. Though she doesn't end hers with hugs. Actually, that would make me gag. ;) SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields > > At the risk of somehow annoying you again, again I apologize. ;? > > Not annoyed at all. Just asking why you always feel the need to > apologize. I hope that I am always humble enough to apologize when I've done something wrong, wronged or hurt someone, or made a complete a.s of myself. I wasn't kidding when I said I was raised by a very proper southern lady. She would be totally appalled with my behavior here of late. > It just seemed like you were tag-teaming with Mary, I really, really try not to take anyone's "side" but instead try to side with the opinion being stated at the time (though I'll freely admit that when someone is agreeing with me it tends to make my opinion of their intelligence rise a notch! ;>) [OK, I *really* need to keep that tongue out of that cheek, it does always get me in trouble!!] > because her whole goal here is to disrupt and name-call, not debate. > You just seemed to be morphing her style. Though she doesn't end hers > with hugs. Actually, that would make me gag. ;) Again, I don't want to be pigeon-holed as in anybody's "camp". That will only cause what I may have to say, or what help I may have to give, to be disregarded out-of-hand. I would do just about *anything*, or abase myself in *any* way, in order to help even one cat. I truly am an ailurophile. I'll try really hard in the future to balance what I say to what I am replying to and not the person that I'm replying to. Hugs, CatNipped > -- > Cheryl > > "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited > breath." > - W.C. Fields > > At the risk of somehow annoying you again, again I apologize. ;? > > Not annoyed at all. Just asking why you always feel the need to > apologize. It just seemed like you were tag-teaming with Mary, > because her whole goal here is to disrupt and name-call, not debate. You're such an idiot. Anyone--everyone can see that that is not my "whole goal." When will you learn that simply saying something enough times does not make it true? > You just seemed to be morphing her style. Though she doesn't end hers > with hugs. Actually, that would make me gag. ;) The sight of your name makes me gag, you spineless wonder. > I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my > frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > CatNipped Pfft. Don't apologize. Simply put, the "Born Free" mentality makes you crazy. It makes me crazy, too, but I've already been full circle on this argument a million times. People who deliberately endanger cats in the name of their "freedom", and people who show little or no regard for the million homeless cats in the world; people who encourage breeding all make me crazy. Ashley just happens to fit all 3. Sherry > > I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to > my [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Pfft. Don't apologize. Simply put, the "Born Free" mentality makes you > crazy. Infuriates me! It makes me crazy, too, but I've already been full circle on > this argument a million times. People who deliberately endanger cats in > the name of their "freedom", and people who show little or no regard > for the million homeless cats in the world; people who encourage > breeding all make me crazy. Ashley just happens to fit all 3. Her only redeeming quality is she's in NZ and not here! Phil Me, too. Why don't we let all the animals out of zoos worldwide while we're at it? Just think how THEY feel! The snow shovel comment was appropriate. Friends of mine used to let their cat run...and I warned & warned....until they had to scrape Priscilla off the street two blocks away - Mine have always been very happy looking out windows.....Carol >> > I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to >> my [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Phil > Me, too. Why don't we let all the animals out of zoos worldwide while > we're at it? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > blocks away - Mine have always been very happy looking out > windows.....Carol Thank you for adding your voice, Carol. Speaking out about your experiences with this can help make a difference. > >> > I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to > >> my [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > > > Phil > > > I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to > > my [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > for the million homeless cats in the world; people who encourage > > breeding all make me crazy. Ashley just happens to fit all 3. It needs to be spoken out against every single time it rears its ugly head. It is a product of another time. It is responsible for countless deaths and maimings of beautiful cats. >> > > I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to >> > my [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > its ugly head. It is a product of another time. It is responsible > for countless deaths and maimings of beautiful cats. I totally agree. I do believe it becomes just a time wasting effort, though, when one starts saying the same things over and over again, gets side-tracked into unrelated issues, and then just starts name-calling (mea culpa). It's the moment when one realizes he's *not* going to change his opponent's mind. I know I'm being naive, but when something seems *SO* self-evident to me, and someone else just doesn't see it that way, my frustration level goes through the roof. But then again, if it makes someone stop and think long enough to save the life of just one cat then I guess it *is* worth it after all. I'm just hoping that, after a very busy couple of days, there may be a lurker or two, new to the joys of cat companionship, who may be persuaded by the things I wrote and decide to keep their cats indoors. Hugs, CatNipped > >> > > I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to > >> > my [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > new to the joys of cat companionship, who may be persuaded by the things I > wrote and decide to keep their cats indoors. You're a wise person and a great cat slave, CN. And your Mama would forgive you for venting a bit due to frustration, I just know it! > I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my > frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Please forgive any upset or disruption I have caused here. Not to worry, IMO. Without meaning for it to happen, once in a while it can be too easy to get entrapped in such a thread if feeling passionate/upset/irritated/frustrated - whatever - about something, & it then kind of runs away with you in tow... May make you feel stupid &/or ashamed &/or apologetic for engaging in the thread, & may realize it's a waste of one's breath & time, but... it does sometimes happen. I didn't pay a lot of attention to this particular thread, partly since I've done the indoor/outdoor issue before... and they tend to be repeats - if you've seen one or two, you've basically seen them all, IMO. Cathy > -- > Hugs, > > CatNipped > http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ > I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my > frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > CatNipped > http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ Hey CN, I, for one, rather enjoyed debating with you. There are others, who shall remain nameless & on my blocked list, who I did'nt enjoy debating with.... Name calling & cheap emotional shots are not what I consider 'civilized debate'. You might have gotten a little hot under the collar, but you never sank to the level of others who saw themselves as 'in your camp'. That you and I could agree to disagree, shows me that you're a smart & civilized cookie. You have nothing to apologise for here.... What's that Chablis?..... She agrees with me... Hey, get your tail out of the way of the computer screen, I'm trying to type.... Anyway, I still feel the love. -- Mathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas Ps. Do check out the book "Guns, Germs & Steel" By Jared Diamond... I think someone of your intelligence would really enjoy it. "Mathew Kagis" <winesnob@telus.net> wrote in message > Hey CN, I, for one, rather enjoyed debating with you. There are others, who > shall remain nameless & on my blocked list, who I did'nt enjoy debating > with.... Because I exposed you for the utter mindless idiot that you are. >Name calling & cheap emotional shots are not what I consider > 'civilized debate'. If you can still allow your other cats to roam free - unsupervised - after watching your *young* cat die a horribly painful death with a broken back, I couldn't care less about your paper emotions or "civilized debate". Actually, I think you need someone to bitch-slap some sense into you before your utter stupidity gets another one of your cats killed painfully. > "Mathew Kagis" <winesnob@telus.net> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Because I exposed you for the utter mindless idiot that you are. Who in their right mind could watch a kitten who was in his care die from a broken back from being left outside, and then still let his other cats outside? > >Name calling & cheap emotional shots are not what I consider > > 'civilized debate'. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Actually, I think you need someone to bitch-slap some sense into you before > your utter stupidity gets another one of your cats killed painfully. The sad thing is, Phil, that cats, if they are lucky enough to have a home, are at the mercy of any moron who is willing to take them in. > > "Mathew Kagis" <winesnob@telus.net> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > a home, are at the mercy of any moron who is willing to take > them in. Now, maybe you will understand why I tremble during adoptions and why my pre-adoption interviews are called interrogations - because of mindless a.sholes like Kagis. He'll probably get a "replacement" cat in a few days and repeat his stupid mistake with the "new" cat - after all, he's still allowing his other cat to roam free. He belongs on every DNA list in his country. I think you all should apologize. You take a subject and extend it to 300 plus posts on off topic items. You bicker and argue and the net result is that serious cat questions get buried so far down that they do not get seen. This means they don't get answered. The purpose of this group is helping people with cat questions NOT your own personal chat group. For shame! > I think you all should apologize. You take a subject and extend it to > 300 plus posts on off topic items. You bicker and argue and the net > result is that serious cat questions get buried so far down that they do > not get seen. This means they don't get answered. The purpose of this > group is helping people with cat questions NOT your own personal chat > group. For shame! Gee Alan: It's obvious you read the WHOLE thread... Nobody forced you to do that. You could start your own thread if the issue is important to you..... I did. SignatureMathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas > I think you all should apologize. You take a subject and extend it to > 300 plus posts on off topic items. You bicker and argue and the net > result is that serious cat questions get buried so far down that they do > not get seen. This means they don't get answered. The purpose of this > group is helping people with cat questions NOT your own personal chat > group. For shame! You never post anything unless it is a critique of what we post. So, just as I told you the last time you posted, f.ck off. > I think you all should apologize. It's an unmoderated group. Such is life. Yahoo groups have some lovely, and active, moderated groups that may be more to your liking. Signature-- ~kaeli~ Cthulhu Saves. He might get hungry later. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace >I think you all should apologize. You take a subject and extend it to >300 plus posts on off topic items. You bicker and argue and the net >result is that serious cat questions get buried so far down that they do >not get seen. This means they don't get answered. The purpose of this >group is helping people with cat questions NOT your own personal chat >group. For shame! Sounds like you need a better news server. Most servers give you a list of threads, so you can easily delete a whol bunch of posts at one time. And nothing is buried. Perhaps if you tell us what you have and what kind of ISP service you have, we can help you find a better way to read the groups. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > > > "Mathew Kagis" <winesnob@telus.net> wrote in message > > > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > He belongs on every DNA list in his country. It really is the "cat as object." He's not far from that vacuous David a.shole. > The sad thing is, Phil, that cats, if they are lucky enough to have > a home, are at the mercy of any moron who is willing to take > them in. That's why I roll my eyeballs everytime some dipstick protests the spay/neuter of *all* cats--because moggies/purebreds might "die out". Groan. So what? Wouldn't it be awesome if cats were so such a precious commodity that there were waiting lists for all of them, no cat would ever go to *anyone* just because they were "willing to take them." No more dumped cats, no more shelters full of warehoused cats. Sherry > That's why I roll my eyeballs everytime some dipstick protests the > spay/neuter of *all* cats--because moggies/purebreds might "die out". [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Sherry 'Twould be Heaven here on Earth! -L. >> The sad thing is, Phil, that cats, if they are lucky enough to have >> a home, are at the mercy of any moron who is willing to take [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Sherry Amen! Or as my mother would say, "From your lips to God's ear!" Hugs, CatNipped >> I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my >> frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Anyway, I still feel the love. And I just want to add in public to what we have discussed in private that there are no hard feelings at all, and I look forward to further impassioned debates :-) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- From: "CatNipped" <lcrews@houston.rr.com> >I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my >frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread >regarding letting cats go roam outdoors. > >The subject has devolved to petty bickering and I will no longer take part >in adding to the disturbance. Oh, Hell !! That was nothing more than a passoinate discussion. Last week I was in the middle of war of words over on rec.aviation.piloting with an A-hole from Houston, TX that wanted to shoot me because I dared to post some helpful advice (really) to him through a REMAILER. He eventually decided that I wasn't worth a bullet and he'd just chain me to his truck and take a drive. I, in turn, suggested that he was too stupid to figure out why his mother and father both had the same surname prior to marriage. So I don't think an apology is in order over the rational, and passionate, debate that you were engaged in. But maybe you do owe ME an apology for being from Houston. :-) It may seem hard to believe, sometimes, but rec.pets.cats.health+behav may be the most civil, courteous, and rational newsgroup on usenet. > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > It may seem hard to believe, sometimes, but rec.pets.cats.health+behav > may be the most civil, courteous, and rational newsgroup on usenet. Darn, I'm *always* having to apologize for living in Houston - I wish these native Houstonians would quit p*ssing people off and threatening to shoot 'em up with their six-guns!!! ;> Actually, I'm originally from New Orleans where sex is more pervasive than violence (wait, is *that* why you're "feeling the love" Mathew??!) Hugs, CatNipped > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: 2.6.2 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > =19Ha > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- <SNIP> > Actually, I'm originally from New Orleans where sex is more pervasive than > violence (wait, is *that* why you're "feeling the love" Mathew??!) LOVE those southern ladies... Purrrrrr......;-) Mathew Butler to 2 kittens: Chablis & Muscat En Vino Veritas > Hugs, > <SNIP> > > > > Actually, I'm originally from New Orleans where sex is more pervasive than > > violence (wait, is *that* why you're "feeling the love" Mathew??!) > > LOVE those southern ladies... Purrrrrr......;-) CN is just trying to smoothe this over due to her upbringing-- I'm betting she will never, ever forget that you could let you cats out to roam when you are responsible for a kitten dying from a broken back from the same negligence. Bastard. > I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my > frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Please forgive any upset or disruption I have caused here. This was nothing compared to some of the indoor/outdoor wars - especially those in alt.cats a few years ago with another brit -- There's one brit who said he'd rather see all indoor cats dead than live indoors! That just goes to show you how fanatical some brits are about this issue. Phil > This was nothing compared to some of the indoor/outdoor wars - especially > those in alt.cats a few years ago with another brit -- There's one brit who > said he'd rather see all indoor cats dead than live indoors! That just goes > to show you how fanatical some brits are about this issue. OMG, I remember him!! Now THERE was a character. Signature-- ~kaeli~ You feel stuck with your debt if you can't budge it. http://www.ipwebdesign.net/wildAtHeart http://www.ipwebdesign.net/kaelisSpace > > This was nothing compared to some of the indoor/outdoor wars - especially > > those in alt.cats a few years ago with another brit -- There's one brit who [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > OMG, I remember him!! > Now THERE was a character. Wasn't that Brenchley? > > > This was nothing compared to some of the indoor/outdoor wars - > especially [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > Wasn't that Brenchley? HUSH!! Get out your usenet crucifix, quick! Yeah, that was him. Good old Boobster. He somehow seems smarter after reading Ashley's posts though, in a really really perverse way. Sherry > > > In article <qb-dnfINf_orJ8nfRVn-tg@giganews.com>, > phil@maxshouse.com [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > HUSH!! Get out your usenet crucifix, quick! > Yeah, that was him. Good old Boobster. He was a regular on, I believe it was alt.cats when I first began reading in 1993 or 4. He was very, err, visible. :) >He somehow seems smarter after > reading Ashley's posts though, in a really really perverse way. Ooo, does Assley really deserve this? Upon giving this a bit of thought, why, yes, she does! lol Mary, How are your cats? Mine are fine (indoors 24-7, with their claws). And yes it was Bob Brenchley. > Mary, How are your cats? Mine are fine (indoors 24-7, with their > claws). And yes it was Bob Brenchley. I post about my cats all the time, which you would know if you read the group regularly. You are clearly some sort of half-wit. >> I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my >> frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Phil O!M!G! What stellar logic! :< Hugs, CatNipped > >> I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my > >> frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > O!M!G! What stellar logic! :< It gets worse: He said he would even kill all the indoor cats *himself*! How's that? Phil >> >> I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to >> >> my [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Phil And this wasn't just a troll???! He really *DID* have cats????!!!!! <boggle> Hugs, CatNipped > >> >> I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to > >> >> my [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > And this wasn't just a troll???! He really *DID* have cats????!!!!! > <boggle> Who knows if BB was or real or not? But I, along w/ many many others, killfiled him years ago. Cathy > Hugs, > > CatNipped > This was nothing compared to some of the indoor/outdoor wars - especially > those in alt.cats a few years ago with another brit -- There's one brit who > said he'd rather see all indoor cats dead than live indoors! That just goes > to show you how fanatical some brits are about this issue./// As a Brit who has lived on both sides of the pond with the same cats, I "have" to comment here. In the USA, my cats were/are strictly indoor. The risks there (with the exceptions of cars) are much greater, in that there are far more serious predators, rabies (a biggie) poisonous snakes, etc. In the UK, the main threat to cats is cars/RTA. I have 3 cats. Only one, HRFL Tiger, is allowed out when we are living in the UK. He goes into a safe garden where he can't get onto a road, and he'll only go out under supervision. However, the majority of Brits have been brought up to believe that cats should be allowed outside, in the same way that we've been brought up to believe that declawing a cat is barbaric mutilation. It is very much a cultural thing, based around the fact that the risks to an outside cat, whilst present, are not in the same category of those that could affect a cat in the USA. (yes, I admit cars and RTA's are a big issue here too). "EVERY" Brit I know, with the exception of one (who lives on a busy main street and so keeps his cats in) lets their cats outside, either 24/7 through a cat door, or out in the day and in at night. The other thing to remember, is that in the UK, our humane societies, i.e. RSPCA and Cats Protection tend to prefer not to adopt a cat to an indoor only home. In the USA, the humane societies tend not to adopt to an indoor/outdoor home! I'm not saying either view is wrong or right, but it really is a cultural thing based on the fact that the risks to an outdoor cat in the Uk *are* less than the USA. Helen M >> This was nothing compared to some of the indoor/outdoor wars - especially >> those in alt.cats a few years ago with another brit -- There's one brit [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Helen M Thanks Helen! I found your comments very balanced. It is very *much* a cultural difference *and* a difference in the type of non-vehicle dangers present. I can understand that. The thing that got me so frustrated to the point of acting very unladylike in a public forum, was people either claiming there was *NO* danger to cats where they lived or, when they couldn't support that, saying that the cats were better off taking the chance being crippled or killed than staying strictly indoors (and implying that the cats themselves were able to make that determination). That just will never make sense to me even if you held me down and forced it into my skull with a power drill!! Of course I now know that not even holding someone *else* down and forcing my views into their skull with a power drill will change their minds - thus my apology and my getting out of the argument! ;> BTW, I don't think letting a cat out into a safe garden where they can't get to a road is the same as letting a cat roam - to me that's the same as being indoor only (with the only difference being the chance of getting fleas or parasites - something easily dealt with and not life-threatening). I also agree that declawing is a barbaric practice and I am active campaigning to have it outlawed in my country. Hugs, CatNipped (...) > The thing that got me so frustrated to the point of acting very unladylike > in a public forum, was people either claiming there was *NO* danger to cats > where they lived or, I do not believe anyone actually said that. > when they couldn't support that, saying that the cats > were better off taking the chance being crippled or killed than staying > strictly indoors (and implying that the cats themselves were able to make > that determination). Well, once again, when people make the indoor vs outdoor argument they generally argue that the risks of the outdoors are worth taking for the enrichment of the cat's life / environment. Few people - none in this ng, I think - argue that a cat should have outdoor access under *all* risk conditions. The chance of 'being crippled or killed' is not the same everywhere, and the value of this 'chance' can be inferred either via available research or experience. The research is not exactly comprehensive though. > That just will never make sense to me even if you held > me down and forced it into my skull with a power drill!! If you go into an argument with the view that it is something to 'win', or if you argue from a fixed position that will not change regardless of data, then ... well, what happens is what always happens in these sorts of debates. The ignoring or misrepresenting of peer reviewed data is something I find especially frustrating. Also appeals to authority without data, which is what seemed to be happening in that whole MENSA madness. (...) > BTW, I don't think letting a cat out into a safe garden where they can't get > to a road is the same as letting a cat roam - to me that's the same as being > indoor only (with the only difference being the chance of getting fleas or > parasites - something easily dealt with and not life-threatening). Hm, you weren't so dismissive of fleas or parasites earlier! But yes, enclosed outdoor access is an excellent compromise - as I said in t'other thread. S. > If you go into an argument with the view that it is something to 'win', > or if you argue from a fixed position that will not change regardless [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > without data, which is what seemed to be happening in that whole MENSA > madness. I hold my hand up to that one - it was an attempt to point out how silly the whole "I'm more clever than you" argument always is, and it didn't work the way it was intended. Usenet, huh? ;-) > >> This was nothing compared to some of the indoor/outdoor wars - especially > >> those in alt.cats a few years ago with another brit -- There's one brit [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > agree that declawing is a barbaric practice and I am active campaigning to > have it outlawed in my country. My stance is simple--I just really love cats and want them ALL protected. I have seen how indoor/outdoor cats are, (I grew up with them, as long as they lasted, anyway) and how outdoor only cats are (barn and farm cats) and how indoor cats are. Indoor cats are happier, healthier and live longer in my experience. > "> > > The thing that got me so frustrated to the point of acting very unladylike [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > strictly indoors (and implying that the cats themselves were able to make > that determination). >> The reason you threw a wobbly was because you were receiving back the types of posts you were sending out, you did not have any studies or cites nor could you produce your own data which you said you had. Alison That just will never make sense to me even if you held > me down and forced it into my skull with a power drill!! Of course I now > know that not even holding someone *else* down and forcing my views into [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > CatNipped > > "> > > > The thing that got me so frustrated to the point of acting very [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > or cites nor could you produce your own data which you said you had. > Alison Jesus. Do you need a citation for the location of your butt? > Jesus. Do you need a citation for the location of your butt?>>. I'm in a lose -lose situation here. If I don't give a ref I get crap from you. If I give a ref I get crap from you. BTW I know where my bum is thanks very much, and I'd be a *lot* happier if you took your head out of it, .Your moustache is tickling me. Alison > > Jesus. Do you need a citation for the location of your butt?>>. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > me. > Alison Psst ... Alison, it's me, not that lout you hired last night! > "> > Psst ... Alison, it's me, not that lout you hired last night!>..>>> The lout last night wasn't wearing a dress and I'd recognise your moustache anywhere. You're a laydee and don't try to deny it ! http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/littlebritain/pictures/polaroid/polaroid33.shtml Alison:) > "> The lout last night wasn't wearing a dress and I'd > recognise your moustache anywhere. You're a laydee and don't try to > deny it ! http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/littlebritain/pictures/polaroid/polaroid33.shtml > Alison:)>>> Im dreadfully sorry, I've posted a photo of Princess Camilla, our future Queen, in her wedding dress by mistake . Apologies. I hope she doesn't find out Charles was with me last night. *This* is you. http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/littlebritain/characters/characters6.shtml Alison > > "> The lout last night wasn't wearing a dress and I'd > > recognise your moustache anywhere. You're a laydee and don't try to > > deny it ! http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/littlebritain/pictures/polaroid/polaroid33.shtml > > Alison:)>>> > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > *This* is you. > http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/littlebritain/characters/characters6.shtml Hey did you see the Queen smiling that smarmy little smile right beside the happy couple? I thought she didn't approve. > "> Hey did you see the Queen smiling that smarmy little smile right > beside the happy couple? I thought she didn't approve.>>. I didn't watch it ! Alison > > "> Hey did you see the Queen smiling that smarmy little smile right > > beside the happy couple? I thought she didn't approve.>>. > > I didn't watch it ! > Alison I am shocked. :) > > I didn't watch it ! > > Alison > > I am shocked. :)>>> We had a power cut which happens once in a blue moon but I wouldn't have watched it anyway. Alison > > > I didn't watch it ! > > > Alison [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > have watched it anyway. > Alison I just saw a still shot on CNN.com. > > "> > > Psst ... Alison, it's me, not that lout you hired last night!>..>>> > > The lout last night wasn't wearing a dress and I'd > recognise your moustache anywhere. You're a laydee and don't try to > deny it ! http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/littlebritain/pictures/polaroid/polaroid33.shtml > Alison:) lol! Offtopic! Where are the gd topic police when I need them! > > This was nothing compared to some of the indoor/outdoor wars - especially > > those in alt.cats a few years ago with another brit -- There's one brit who [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Helen M Thank you, Helen, for your input. Your observations verify my own regarding the entrenched nature of British ideas about keeping cats outside. While I understand cultural differences, the fact is, the proliferation of the car alone makes this practice dangerous in my view. > Thank you, Helen, for your input. Your observations verify my > own regarding the entrenched nature of British ideas about > keeping cats outside. While I understand cultural differences, > the fact is, the proliferation of the car alone makes this > practice dangerous in my view./// TBH, I personally concur with this. I am often accused of being "over-protective" by other Brits by not allowing my furr-kids outside unless closely supervised. Speaking for myself, however, I like living without the stress of worrying where they are and what is happening to them! Helen M > > Thank you, Helen, for your input. Your observations verify my > > own regarding the entrenched nature of British ideas about [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Helen M I understand. It is really simple for me. I just love them so much I can't bear to think of them getting hurt. And that means *anyone's* cats. Re the photo of Bob Brenchley. Is it really him or did someone post a photo of what they thought he might look like. I doubt if he would have provided a photo of himself. My first cat (IKE) was an inside/outside cat. I had no choice because he came to me at age 9 being used to going out. He was too insistent to keep him in. He lasted five years before he disappeared. Now I have Tiger and Amber and they have never been outside. Since they have never been out they don't seem to mind staying in. I am surrounded by dense woods and there are lots of hungry predators out there. ---MIKE--- > Re the photo of Bob Brenchley. Is it really him or did someone post a > photo of what they thought he might look like. I doubt if he would have > provided a photo of himself. There are some geniuses who post photos of themselves on family web pages, then run amuck p*ssing people off in Usenet. You can guess what happens next. So it might be him. > My first cat (IKE) was an inside/outside cat. I had no choice because > he came to me at age 9 being used to going out. He was too insistent to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > ---MIKE--- You're a smart Cat pa and a good guardian. Where do you live? I live in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. The National Forest boundary is about 1/4 mile from my house. I have seen bears, moose, deer and wild turkeys within 100 feet of the house. There are reports of Cougars and Fishers but I haven't seen them. I'm surprised Ike lasted five years but he was seldom out at night. He disappeared during the day in August. He was 14 and not really very healthy (asthma). He might have died naturally but I'll never know.i ---MIKE--- > I live in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. The National Forest > boundary is about 1/4 mile from my house. I have seen bears, moose, > deer and wild turkeys within 100 feet of the house. There are reports > of Cougars and Fishers but I haven't seen them. Now I remember where you are. I once wanted to go to school at Franconia. Gorgeous country, though collllld! >I'm surprised Ike > lasted five years but he was seldom out at night. He disappeared during > the day in August. He was 14 and not really very healthy (asthma). He > might have died naturally but I'll never know.i Well I know it was hard to lose him, and I'm glad you keep your current furkids in. > I live in the White Mountains of New Hampshire. The National Forest > boundary is about 1/4 mile from my house. I have seen bears, moose, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the day in August. He was 14 and not really very healthy (asthma). He > might have died naturally but I'll never know.i Maybe someone took Ike in as stray. So, keep the faith, Mike. Phil I doubt if anyone took Ike in. I know almost everybody within his ranging area. I also do a lot of walking in my area and would have seen him. He would have been about 20 years old by now. ---MIKE--- > " > TBH, I personally concur with this. I am often accused of being [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Helen M Hi Helen , Thats wrong you are being out under pressure to let your cats out. If you want to join any UK cat forum that have both types of owners I can let you have the links:) How do you manage to supervise your cats outside? In the US they have something called friendly fencing but I don't know if they have that here in England Alison > Hi Helen , > Thats wrong you are being out under pressure to let your cats out. If > you want to join any UK cat forum that have both types of owners I can > let you have the links:) Thanks :o) > How do you manage to supervise your cats outside? In the US they have > something called friendly fencing but I don't know if they have that > here in England > Alison I live in the middle of a very long victorian terrace, with a car inaccessible alley way behind me. The garden is also quite a small walled garden, and cat proofed so that His Royal Feline Lordship can't get out. Recently, Pandora has started going out too - she particularly likes to lie in the sun on the patio. ;o) Helen M >I live in the middle of a very long victorian terrace, with a car >inaccessible alley way behind me. The garden is also quite a small >walled garden, and cat proofed so that His Royal Feline Lordship can't >get out. Recently, Pandora has started going out too - she particularly >likes to lie in the sun on the patio. ;o) I know this is off-topic, but I saw your reference to His Royal Feline Lordship, and I immediately scrolled up to my list of favorite posts. Yep, that was you that wrote the story: The Mouse is Dead I love your titles for the kitties - His Royal Feline Lordship Tiger, and His Knights of the Square Litter Box, Sir William-fatboy, Sir Robertson-hissi-spit, and Sir Sam-lunch-a-lot, Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com > I know this is off-topic, but I saw your reference to His Royal Feline > Lordship, and I immediately scrolled up to my list of favorite posts. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Box, Sir William-fatboy, Sir Robertson-hissi-spit, and Sir > Sam-lunch-a-lot,// Thank you. :) Glad they made you smile. The only one of that crew I now have, is His Royal Feline Lordship Tiger. Sir William went to Rainbow Bridge in 2000, Sir Robertson (Robbie) now lives with my dad in the USA, and Sam managed to get out one day (he was very shy) dissapeared, and after much searching, I caught up with him 2 years later (thanks to a microchip) to find he'd moved in with an old lady 2 1/2 miles away! Now we have "Her Royal Exquisitness Princess Pandora" (who's a shy tabby and white ex-feral) and Cleo-lard-belly. (A fat black and white rescue) Helen M > > This was nothing compared to some of the indoor/outdoor wars - especially > > those in alt.cats a few years ago with another brit -- There's one brit who [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > in the UK. He goes into a safe garden where he can't get onto a road, > and he'll only go out under supervision. That's the best of both worlds and the housing arrangement I've adopted for my cats. > However, the majority of Brits have been brought up to believe that cats > should be allowed outside, in the same way that we've been brought up to [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Helen M How do you like driving on the right (meaning left) side of the road?! ;-) Phil > How do you like driving on the right (meaning left) side of the road?! ;-) > > Phil/// Well, when I was in Canada and Belize, driving on the "wrong" side of the road was OK. Then I got to DC, and refused point blank to sit behind the wheel and drive. I have never been so scared in my life. Then I went to New York, and decided that actually, DC was OK for driving in comparrison! ;o) Helen M (who'll stick to the right side of the road, Ta very much ;o)) > > However, the majority of Brits have been brought up to believe that cats > > should be allowed outside, > > This is true when we got Speedy Joe, the reason we were offered him as a kitten (by a friend) was because we were moving into a flat with outside access if we had no outside access we would NOT have been offered this spitting ball of fur as the guy who had his mum firmly believed that it wasn't "natural" for a cat to be kept indoors.We didn't know much about cats when we got him but we knew what "everyone" knows that cats need their "freedom" to come and go About a year after we got Speedy a friend got two cats (Bonnie and Clyde) even through her flat was on the 3rd floor and nearly everyone said "But how will you let them out?" and most people were pretty surprised when they said they were keeping them indoors. They got accused of cruelty quite a lot. I admit at the time I was puzzled as to how this arrangement would work out but I saw Bonnie at home and very happy (Clyde was never happy- he was a Siamese with a massively bad attitude except towards his meowmie) After we lost Speedy Joe (We think he was scared by something and ran off although perhaps the fact that the new Billingsgate Fish Market opened about half a mile from where we lived may have had something to do with i!) We moved to a 1st floor flat on a busy main road and for about the 1st 18 months, we really did wonder whether it were possible to keep a cat indoors but in the end the urge to have cats overcame any reservations and we got Isis and Fugazi and kept them inside. Again people thought we were "weird" and yes we got accused of animal cruelty a lot in the early years. Now it's 18 years since our first indoor cats (In fact April is a very nervous month for us when it comes to cats, Fugazi(RB)19/04/99 and Isis (RB)29/04/03 I always get over protective at this time of year) we now have Redunzel and Sarrasine and people do sometimes still ask how they go out and look pretty shocked when we tell them they are indoor cats and yes we've had the occasional accusation we're putting the fact we want cats before the fact that cats have a "need" to go out- it's getting more accepted but it does seem to be the "British" view that cats need outside access. Even good cat books in the UK seem to briefly touch upon it as if its a possible but less desirable outcome. Lesley Slave to the Fabulous (Indoor) Furballs > > I have 3 cats. Only one, HRFL Tiger, is allowed out when we are living > in the UK. He goes into a safe garden where he can't get onto a road, > and he'll only go out under supervision. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > a cat in the USA. (yes, I admit cars and RTA's are a big issue here > too).>>> Hi Helen, I agree with you that RTA's are the biggest threat to cats. I don't actually believe the culture was that much different. Americans used to let their cats out and the amount of owners who let cats out today varies a bit according to studies but Patronek et al (1997) cites 50-60% . and it also depends on the area. I think the difference is the tremendous pressure that is put on US cat owner to keep their cat in. Cat mags and societies here in the UK do warn of the dangers and advise. My local RSPCA fits the cat to the home. Most of the people I know let their cats out but a couple don't. I've met more people on forums who keep their cats inside and I expect the number rise as time goes by. Alsion > > > I have 3 cats. Only one, HRFL Tiger, is allowed out when we are > living [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > I've met more people on forums who keep their cats inside and I > expect the number rise as time goes by. Only if they have more sense than you do. > I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my > frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread > regarding letting cats go roam outdoors. > > The subject has devolved to petty bickering and I will no longer take part > in adding to the disturbance. Most debates on the cat ngs dissolve into the same in short course. I've just quit participating in them for the most part. Other than declawing which I think is wrong in any circumstance (other than injury or disease), I can't hold an "all-or-nothing" position on most cat issues. People live in different places, have different environments and have different cats with differing needs. What is a good lifestyle for one cat in one home would be a disaster for another. I think people lose touch with reality in these debates, honestly. > Please forgive any upset or disruption I have caused here. Oh, you're such a disruptive force, I may have to killfile you! ;p -L. (jk of course!) > Most debates on the cat ngs dissolve into the same in short course. > I've just quit participating in them for the most part. Other than [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and have different cats with differing needs. What is a good lifestyle > for one cat in one home would be a disaster for another.>>> Absolutely, very well said . I don't hold with the all or nothing position either. Alison > > Most debates on the cat ngs dissolve into the same in short course. > > I've just quit participating in them for the most part. Other than [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > position either. > Alison No, you hold with the "whatever is convenient for me" postion. > No, you hold with the "whatever is convenient for me" > postion.>>> That from a woman who only cleans the litter trays once a day. Will Mary ever get a sense of irony ? Watch this space! Alison > > No, you hold with the "whatever is convenient for me" > > postion.>>> > > That from a woman who only cleans the litter trays once a day. > Will Mary ever get a sense of irony ? Watch this space! > Alison lol! Alison is back to the litter tray distraction! You really are a one-trick pony. Yes, folks, Alison is more virtuous than I because she scoops her litter boxes more often. She lets her cats roam free where they are in danger of getting killed or maimed, but by god she has a cleaner litter box! There. I've said it. >> Yes, folks, Alison is more virtuous than I because she > scoops her litter boxes more often. She lets her cats > roam free where they are in danger of getting killed > or maimed, but by god she has a cleaner litter box!>. I'm not more virtuous just cleaner. I expect its something to do with working in a boarding cattery. Alison >> I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to > my [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Oh, you're such a disruptive force, I may have to killfile you! ;p Oh, please do, I don't think I've ever been kill-filed before! Does it hurt??! ;> Hugs, CatNipped > -L. > (jk of course!) > Oh, please do, I don't think I've ever been kill-filed before! Does it > hurt??! ;> LOL Ask Mary, she'd know. Alison > > Oh, please do, I don't think I've ever been kill-filed before! Does > it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Ask Mary, she'd know. > Alison It feels great. It feels like victory. It's what people do when they cannot effectively refute one's argument. In fact, I have to say, now that I think about it, that I LOVE being killfiled. Then there is the added pleasure of snickering behind the back of the pussies who killfile you. All in all, it's a win-win situation. :) > > Oh, please do, I don't think I've ever been kill-filed before! Does > it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Ask Mary, she'd know. > Alison LOL....good one! -L. > > > Oh, please do, I don't think I've ever been kill-filed before! > Does [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > -L. I thought so too. > Oh, please do, I don't think I've ever been kill-filed before! Does it > hurt??! ;> > > Hugs, > > CatNipped You know I was kidding, right? -L. > > Oh, please do, I don't think I've ever been kill-filed before! Does > it [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > -L. Do you really think anyone cares who you killfile? :) > > Oh, please do, I don't think I've ever been kill-filed before! Does > it [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > -L. Of course, I was too! ;> Hugs, CatNipped > Of course, I was too! ;> > > Hugs, > > CatNipped Good - I thought so, but you just never know with all the craziness on this ng! -L. No apology needed here! Carol :) >I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my > frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > CatNipped > http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ > No apology needed here! Carol :) Thanks, Carol. I'll try to curb my, er, enthusiasm, from now on! ;> Hugs, CatNipped >>I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my >> frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> CatNipped >> http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ You have no reason to apologize... we all get into disagreements and say a few off colour things. Hell, I can be a sailor mouth myself from time to time. It's all just language. Signature.oO rach Oo. >I would like to apologize to everyone here who has been subjected to my > frustration, invective, and unladylike language in the recent thread [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > CatNipped > http://www.PossiblePlaces.com/CatNipped/ I don't recall Bob Brenchley ever threatening to kill all inside cats. He did say that if for any reason it was unsafe to let a cat outside that you shouldn't have a cat. ---MIKE--- |
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