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Cat Forum / Health and Behavior / April 2005Crying Cat
Hello, I know that pretty much everybody on this website is going to disagree with me about letting cats outside, but I really don't believe in making my cats life miserable. I got him from a shelter two months ago, and have had him inside until yesterday. He spends all day crying at the windows. So the past couple days, I have let him out (I live in a bungalow in Santa Monica). I have been following him around as he sniffs the shared yard out front. He has yet to come back in on his own. I always have to carry him, and then he cries to go back out. Our neighbor cats play and frolic and hang out, and go in and out of their house. I really hope my cat learns to do the same. I have a friend who has had a cat for 7 years. And for seven years this cat has cried at the windows and tried to escape every chance he gets. My friend is great to him, and doesn't believe in letting him out. I disagree. This cat was absolutely born to be an outside cat. And for the last seven years, he hasn't given up trying to get out, and I don't believe he ever will. Anytime I go over there you have to slowly open the door, put your hand down and pick him up - when you walk in the door. Every time. When you leave, you have to stick your foot out, and run out and slam the door to stop him. Every time. I won't live like that. So when my new cat started crying to go out, I'm going to let him out. So anyhow, this post is for the people who let their cats out. Please don't yell at me for deciding to let my cat out, I love him so much that I can't see him miserable. For those people. How can I introduce him to the outside? When can he start going out unattended? Will he ever want to come in on his own? He was feral, I believe, before I got him... Does this mean he is a wanderer in spirit, and won't be coming back? I'm scared, but resigned. If he doesn't come back. I will be very sad, and I won't get another cat. But It's the laws of probablility. Nature takes its course. If he wants to be here, he will come back. I'm no Jailer. If anybody could please help me with letting a new cat outdoors - and the steps I should take... Thanks! > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > days, I have let him out (I live in a bungalow in Santa Monica). I have > been following him around as he sniffs the shared yard out front. If you've had him inside for two months, he will now know the inside of your house as his safe territory. As long as you continue feeding him, and continue ensuring he feels inside is his safe territory, he will keep coming back. You might like to invest in a cat door, which will make it easy for him to come inside when he wants. And make sure you get him micro-chipped, if that's done in your area, and/or get a neck tag for him with his name and your phone number, so that if he does decide to wander for any reason, anyone who finds him can contact you to come and pick him up. Thanks for writing back... He's microchipped, all caught up on shots and has a collar with my info on it. I also have a cat door on my back door. I just don't know if he'll ever use it. I don't even think he knows it exists... How long do you figure I should follow him around outside before I just let him go? I'm worried that he won't know his way back... Anyone else been through this? Thanks! >Thanks for writing back... > >He's microchipped, all caught up on shots and has a collar with my info on >it. I also have a cat door on my back door. I just don't know if he'll ever >use it. I don't even think he knows it exists... Have you shown him the door? > Thanks for writing back... > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks! My cats I first allowed outside only with me, when they were around 6 months old. At that age, they're wanting to stick pretty close to Mum anyway. I did that for about a month before I'd allow them a little freedom. Your cat is older - the answer is I don't really know. Certainly for about a week I'd make sure I was always with him when he was outside, but he may have ideas of his own, having been an outdoor cat before. It's a good idea to let him outside while he's still hungry (eg, early in the morning, before his morning feed) so he gets to orientate himself while still wondering when the food's going to arrive inside for a while. > I got him from a shelter two months ago, and have had him inside until > yesterday. He spends all day crying at the windows. Try playing with him.  Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/ > So anyhow, this post is for the people who let their cats out. Please don't > yell at me for deciding to let my cat out, I love him so much that I can't > see him miserable. If you love him, why not play with him? Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/ Dear God, I spend the last three hours of my day playing with him with the feather toy, and his catnip mouse. I have to wear him out for an hour, before we can go to bed (he joins me). then after about three hours he gets up and cries all night (in my one bedroom place). I've been up for the last two hours and I'm so tired. I have to be at work at 9 and I'm on almost no sleep. Ever since I started letting him out, he just won't shut up. All he wants is to go out. Well about 30 minutes ago I gave him his wish. Then i tried to go back to bed. I couldn't, of course, sleep. He was hiding under the house, then when he did come up - he walked away from me. Down the pathway and into the street, Hid under a car, and walked over to the neighboring apartment building until I grabbed him. That was the farthest he has gone, and he was trotting recklessly without sniffing. I don't think he would have found his way back. Now he's back in the house, pissed at me, and wants to go out more then ever. I'll never get back to sleep and I hate life. We have a great time together. He has cat furniture, catnip, toys, we play ALL the time. I bring over the neighbors cats to play with him. He sleeps with me, sleeps on my lap is always purring. But he wants out. And I have no idea what to do. I just need sleep! http://www.thecatconnection.com/page/TCC/PROD/PLAY-KWLK/KWLK-PLAY > Dear God, I spend the last three hours of my day playing with him with the > feather toy, and his catnip mouse. I have to wear him out for an hour, [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > I just need sleep! I shouldn't be laughing here, but what the heck. Your story is cute even though you need some sleep. What we don't do for our furry loved ones! > Hello, > > If anybody could please help me with letting a new cat outdoors - and the > steps I should take... > > Thanks! What about a building an enclosure for your cat? http://www.thecatsden.net/index.html http://www.thecatsden.net/gallery.html > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > -- > Message posted via http://www.catkb.com I have 5 cats, 2 of which LOVE to go out. We live in the country in a wintry climate. When spring comes they sit at the door. When they go out, we go out with them and sit and watch, maybe read a little, have an iced tea, etc. We usually let them out twice a day for about an hour. They love this and I think it has made the quality of their lives better. But, I do want to emphasize that we stay out with them. > For those people. How can I introduce him to the outside? When can he start > going out unattended? Will he ever want to come in on his own? He was feral, > I believe, before I got him... Does this mean he is a wanderer in spirit, > and won't be coming back? Is he neutered? That will make a difference. Especially if he was feral, you want to make really sure he knows you're his meal ticket (or, if you prefer, that he loves you) before letting him wander. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > Hello, > > I know that pretty much everybody on this website is going to disagree with > me about letting cats outside, but I really don't believe in making my cats > life miserable. ...snip... > I won't live like that. So when my new cat started crying to go out, I'm > going to let him out. ...snip... > For those people. How can I introduce him to the outside? When can he start > going out unattended? Will he ever want to come in on his own? He was [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I won't get another cat. But It's the laws of probablility. Nature takes > its course. If he wants to be here, he will come back. I'm no Jailer. ...snip... > If anybody could please help me with letting a new cat outdoors - and the > steps I should take... Hi, A great "compromise" is to harness-train your cat. With patience and perseverance it can be done. I adore my cats and believe that letting them roam in my area would be cruel on several levels. I can't assume that cats can be "street-savvy" at all times and I won't subject them to the dangers of the outdoors: cars, cat fights, diseases, coyotes, other people, etc. Here is a web site with wonderful tips as well as a great harness/walking jacket: http://www.hdw-inc.com/frameset.htm . Scroll down to "Popular Cat Walking Jackets and Leash training tips". I go out with the cats daily, one at a time. They love going out, they are safe, they are happy coming back in, and it's the best of both worlds. They get to chase birds and butterflies without hurting them or being hurt. If you have a relatively quiet area where you are safe from dogs bounding over, that would be ideal. Start getting your cat used to the jacket indoors as well as the leash, then take slow steps outdoors when he is ready. You will love it and never look back. Hope this helps. M. Hey guys, Thanks for all the responses. An ipod and headphones got me through the rest of the night. He is neutered, and I don't think an enclosure or harness would exactly satisfy his desires... I think tonight I'll pass out from sheer exhaustion, but tomorrow I'll take him out again. He'll probably take off, and then I'll have to wait around for someone to find him. Hopefully not. Anyhow, I appreciate the thoughtful ideas. > Hey guys, > > Thanks for all the responses. An ipod and headphones got me through the > rest of the night. He is neutered, and I don't think an enclosure or > harness would exactly satisfy his desires... I do not understand your assumption. It is not based on reality. You seem to really care about your little guy and you are also pretty sure he will take off. The outdoors can be a very scary and confusing place for them. If they are with someone they know and trust and don't need to fend for themselves, can smell the fresh air, have a safe way of exploring the outdoors, and express many of their instinctive behaviours without endangering themselves - how can that not satisfy his desires? If he has a safe way of being outdoors and a safe cat-friendly indoors with a loving human, he will be a very happy cat. >I think tonight I'll pass out > from sheer exhaustion, but tomorrow I'll take him out again. He'll probably > take off, and then I'll have to wait around for someone to find him. Given the safe options available which numerous cat owners have opted for successfully, that would be irresponsible. Lost cats roaming outdoors can live pretty miserable lives and die horrible deaths. You have taken on the commitment to take care of your cat. He is one of the very lucky ones. Please keep it that way. Don't make him another casualty - there are far too many already. Please reconsider the walking-jacket. It may also be a very good option for your friend's kitty. I hope you will take the above seriously. M. > Hopefully not. > > Anyhow, I appreciate the thoughtful ideas. > > Hey guys, > > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Please reconsider the walking-jacket. It may also be a very good option for > your friend's kitty. The main thing here is that the OP is losing sleep. The cat is not his primary concern. Why he could not just stfu and open the door rather than bothering people who really love cats and are concerned about their welfare I do not know. > The main thing here is that the OP is losing sleep. The cat is not his > primary concern. Why he could not just stfu and open the door rather than > bothering people who really love cats and are concerned about their welfare > I do not know. Continuous sleep deprivation really f*cks you up, to the point where you can't think straight and lose a lot of impulse control. He needs sleep, not just for himself but in order to care for his cat responsibly. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > > The main thing here is that the OP is losing sleep. The cat is not his > > primary concern. Why he could not just stfu and open the door rather than [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > think straight and lose a lot of impulse control. He needs sleep, not just > for himself but in order to care for his cat responsibly. Sure he does. How is Eros doing these days, do you still get reports? > The main thing here is that the OP is losing sleep. The cat is not his > primary concern. Why he could not just stfu and open the door rather > than bothering people who really love cats and are concerned about > their welfare I do not know. Once you get to a certain point without sleep, one cannot really think clearly. You lose your focus. I would think that Skip, considering he IS trying, is probably so sleep-deprived at this point that he isn't thinking straight. I had this issue when my Dad was first diagnosed with cancer. Try going to work on 3 hours or less when you have an extremely responsible job. That is why I requested an LOA. I believe Skip cares for his cat and not just sleep. It's just that once you get to a certain point of sleep deprivation, it is like starvation - - - that is all your mind, in mode of survival, can really focus on. (been there - done that) Mel SignatureGod requires that we assist the animals, when they need our help. Each being (human or creature) has the same right of protection. -St. Francis of Assisi- One can measure the greatness and the moral progress of a nation by looking at how it treats her animals. -Mahatma Gandhi - > > Hello, > > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > Here is a web site with wonderful tips as well as a great harness/walking > jacket: http://www.hdw-inc.com/frameset.htm . You are a good soul and wonderful to post this. However, I suspect this would be just too much trouble for the OP. If he cannot find the patience to help his cat transition to being an indoor cat, there is no way he is going to take the time to train the cat to a harness. Sadly, this cat is on his own. Sadder still, chances are the cat will never return home as it will not be able to--having been hit by a car or killed or injured by another animal, poisoned or taken by a sicko to torture and kill. > > Hi, > > A great "compromise" is to harness-train your cat. With patience and [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Here is a web site with wonderful tips as well as a great harness/walking > > jacket: http://www.hdw-inc.com/frameset.htm . > You are a good soul and wonderful to post this. Thank you Mary, >However, I suspect this > would be just too much trouble for the OP. If he cannot find the patience > to help his cat transition to being an indoor cat, there is no way he is > going to take the time to train the cat to a harness. I did not interpret the tone of the original post that way. I got the impression that "Skip" does indeed care for his cat and wants him to have a good life. Sometimes people need to become aware of other available and workable options and sometimes they need some time to think things through. >Sadly, this cat is > on his own. Sadder still, chances are the cat will never return home > as it will not be able to--having been hit by a car or killed or injured > by another animal, poisoned or taken by a sicko to torture and kill. I can only hope that "Skip" will find a way to provide safe outdoor access for his cat. In addition to the safety aspect, walking the kitties is an enormous pleasure for me and clearly a delight for them. Everyone wins. M. >>>Hi, >>>A great "compromise" is to harness-train your cat. With patience and [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > M. I also think that some people come to these boards without nearly as much cat owning experience as some of you. Not everyone realizes how much time, effort and patience it can take. I know I have learned a lot in the past year. Perhaps if we try to continue helping people rather than chastising them...we will eventually be doing good by the cats. That's what counts...right? Pam >>>> Hi, >>>> A great "compromise" is to harness-train your cat. With patience and [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > Pam Uh oh. > Uh oh. I thought the same thing. SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields > > Uh oh. > > I thought the same thing. Oh you so cute. Woopsy! Uh oh! Yikesy! Meanwhile, Pam has more snap in her little toenail than either you or Pussy Karen have in your entire lardy bodies. :) marys@catlover.com wrote: >Meanwhile, Pam has more snap in her >little toenail than either you or Pussy >Karen have in your entire lardy bodies. :) You sure spend an awful lot of time slinging insults about weight when you have an admitted problem with it yourself. More scummy hypocrisy. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > marys@catlover.com wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Megan Hahaha, Megan is desperate! I never said that. I once said to KellyH that for all she knew I might have a weight problem. But sure, whatever you say. You've failed in proving me to be a liar, so go for hypocrite. Everyone needs something to shoot for. heh marys@catlover.com lied: >You've failed in proving me to be a liar I've succeeded many times and I'm going to do it again right now. On 3/4 you wrote: "I'm only on an oral sulfonylurea, glimepiride (Amaryl), not insulin. We are probably going to have to add a drug. I had perfect control when I took metformin as well -- and had weight gain from the other drgs peel away. Metformin (well, also acarbose) are the only drugs for diabetes, including insulin, that do not cause weight gain. Unfortunately, when I started taking metformin, my BUN and creatinine started inching upwards. Sound unfortunately familiar?" Here you admit you've gained weight. And now, since you're off the only drugs that don't cause weight gain, it's obvious you are back on the ones that do. On 3/16 you wrote: "This happened when I began weight training without dieting. I built muscle under the layer of fat, which was not budging." And finally: On 3/22 you wrote: "but I was surprised when she began to look at Deb with disapproval when she gained weight after having her babies and did not take it off. It actually made me think less of my mother. But it was another way I learned from her--about a way I never want to be." And you became it anyway, but much worse. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > marys@catlover.com lied: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > started taking metformin, my BUN and creatinine started inching upwards. > Sound unfortunately familiar?" Megan--this is not me. I did not write this. I don't have diabetes, or anything else except asthma. I'm a bit underweight right now. Where did you find the above and who are you stalking? Wah hahaha! > Here you admit you've gained weight. And now, since you're off the only > drugs that don't cause weight gain, it's obvious you are back on the > ones that do. I take no drugs except Advair and Claritin for my asthma and cat allergies, you idiot. Whoever that is that you quote above, it's sure not me. LOL! You are such a f.cking fool. > On 3/16 you wrote: > "This happened when I began weight training without dieting. I built > muscle under the layer of fat, which was not budging." Now this I did write. That layer of fat consisted of about ten pounds I put on after I quit smoking. I may have tipped the scales at 7 lbs overweight, as I was underweight when I quit. > And finally: > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > actually made me think less of my mother. But it was another way I > learned from her--about a way I never want to be." Deb is my sister, who had a weight problem after having babies. What does this have to do with me? > And you became it anyway, but much worse. Megan--really. This is scary. The post above has nothing to do with me at all. Are you okay? You are an annoying, self-important moron, but I don't want you to get sick. You are far too much fun as a punching bag. marys@catlover.com wrote: >Megan--this is not me. I did not write >this. You're right. I was looking at the wrong thing. See, Mary, unlike you I don't have a problem admitting mistakes. However: >>On 3/16 you wrote: >>"This happened when I began weight >>training without dieting. I built muscle >>under the layer of fat, which was not >>budging." >Now this I did write. That layer of fat >consisted of about ten pounds I put on >after I quit smoking. I may have tipped the >scales at 7 lbs overweight, >as I was underweight when I quit. But it was still weight you didn't want and you do say you were overweight. >>And finally: >>On 3/22 you wrote: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>another way I learned from her--about a >>way I never want to be." >Deb is my sister, who had a weight >problem after having babies. What does >this have to do with me? It has every thing to do with you and it's clear in the vast difference between what you say and how you behave. >>And you became it anyway, but much >>worse. >Megan--really. This is scary. The post >above has nothing to do with me at all. Again, it has every thing to do with you. You are critical of your mother for judging your sister because of her weight, yet you do exactly the same here by slinging weight related insults. You are no different than your mother in that respect. It's just another example of the rampant hypocrisy you exhibit day in and day out on this newsgroup. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray > marys@catlover.com wrote: > >Megan--this is not me. I did not write [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > than your mother in that respect. It's just another example of the > rampant hypocrisy you exhibit day in and day out on this newsgroup. Hee. Tell me more, please. By God but you are an idiot. >But it was still weight you didn't want and you do say you were >overweight. What does this have to do with cats? Why did you start googling for these posts in the first place? Is there some reason that the whole groups needs to know this information? If this is in response to a particular topic, perhaps you could keep it *with* that topic? Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com Meghan wrote: >What does this have to do with cats? >Why did you start googling for these posts >in the first place? Is there some reason >that the whole groups needs to know this >information? Ask Mary. And while your at it, do a hypocrisy check at the door. You've posted plenty of OT garbage and nobody's complained so STFU. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray >Meghan wrote: >>What does this have to do with cats? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Ask Mary. And while your at it, do a hypocrisy check at the door. You've >posted plenty of OT garbage and nobody's complained so STFU. I can only think of one issue that was off topic, and several people were interested and involved. When it became too much, I left the topic. This seems to be out of right field, having nothing to do with any of the current topics. That is why I asked. It seems like you just started it up out of the blue. Signature-- Meghan & the Zoo Crew Equine and Pet Photography http://www.zoocrewphoto.com >Megan--really. This is scary. The post above has nothing to do with >me at all. Are you okay? You are an annoying, self-important >moron, but I don't want you to get sick. You are far too much >fun as a punching bag. Sad, sad girl. You really need to talk to someone. BLink > >Megan--really. This is scary. The post above has nothing to do with > >me at all. Are you okay? You are an annoying, self-important [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > BLink Now that was pretty good. It's nice to see what you are capable of now that you are getting your beauty rest. I did a simple Google search on the phrase "an oral sulfonylurea, glimepiride (Amaryl)" as I thought that would be pretty damned specific. It was Howard Berkowitz who wrote that, you ignorant crone. Below is the post, from rec.pets.anecdotes: NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:32:04 -0600 From: Howard Berkowitz <h...@gettcomm.com> Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.anecdotes Subject: Re: I Finally Got My Lab Results!! References: <vkpc219go6hpaput0j5h0cmkk5hnl0iqev@4ax.com> <422667c1_4@newsgate.x-privat.org> <hcb-957F20.21143502032005@newsgroups.comcast.net> <p2rg2199l1dvct7rsgcl2bmbel0sogolkj@4ax.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 22:32:04 -0500 Message-ID: <hcb-76F4E7.22320404032005@newsgroups.comcast.net> Lines: 38 X-Trace: sv3-r4iF6eMvbeudjeRq/DD4QSmqV5Y2rjMSZ597IydRt6gcn69dCVHCjh5Pr5+ZLci9p4RDx9w+ SrXJNgN!qpIdccta+gIu0iteLPS5FlWE8c6QUzk5MF01/rYhijzjpdlQ7w8PtaJIfB2Hrfh1R18n ULduAOyY!1q8Z0FLNqK5iRkw= X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: d...@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.32 In article <p2rg2199l1dvct7rsgcl2bmbel0sogo...@4ax.com>, CATherine <pepsicola5ce...@drop.me.bigsandytelco.com> wrote: > On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 21:14:35 -0500, Howard Berkowitz > <h...@gettcomm.com> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Maybe you will catch the essence of my enjoyment and toast to you in > your dreams. :-) I'm only on an oral sulfonylurea, glimepiride (Amaryl), not insulin. We are probably going to have to add a drug. I had perfect control when I took metformin as well -- and had weight gain from the other drgs peel away. Metformin (well, also acarbose) are the only drugs for diabetes, including insulin, that do not cause weight gain. Unfortunately, when I started taking metformin, my BUN and creatinine started inching upwards. Sound unfortunately familiar? My endocrinologist and I are talking about a new trial of metformin, starting with an EXTREMELY low dose. There are reports that people can build up tolerance to the (sometimes) renal toxicicity. ---------------End of Howard's Post------------------------- Now then. Back to the Google board for you. What a hoot. It is so much fun to watch you simmer in your own impotent rage and stumble all over yourself. >I did a simple Google search on the phrase "an oral sulfonylurea, >glimepiride (Amaryl)" as I thought that would be pretty damned specific. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >---------------End of Howard's Post------------------------- Either you are worthy of pity or scorn. Again, when have you posted useful information? Get professional help. BLink > >I did a simple Google search on the phrase "an oral sulfonylurea, > >glimepiride (Amaryl)" as I thought that would be pretty damned specific. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > BLink By Dog but you are witty. And wise too. Thanks so much for sharing. I keep poor Henry in my thoughts. >> >I did a simple Google search on the phrase "an oral sulfonylurea, >> >glimepiride (Amaryl)" as I thought that would be pretty damned specific. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >By Dog but you are witty. And wise too. Thanks so much >for sharing. I keep poor Henry in my thoughts. Still waiting for the answer to my question.. ? BLink >>Uh oh. > > I thought the same thing. And why? Did I say something wrong? >>>Uh oh. >> >> I thought the same thing. > > And why? Did I say something wrong? Uh, nevermind. SignatureCheryl "The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath." - W.C. Fields > >>>Uh oh. > >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Uh, nevermind. We already covered it, you spineless jackass. > >>>> Hi, > >>>> A great "compromise" is to harness-train your cat. With patience and [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Uh oh. Uh oh, what you spineless weasel? Somebody answer this so pussyfied Karen and her killfile see it. <G? >>>>>Hi, >>>>>A great "compromise" is to harness-train your cat. With patience and [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > Uh oh. What did I miss? > >>>>>Hi, > >>>>>A great "compromise" is to harness-train your cat. With patience and [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > What did I miss? Uh oh, now you have pissed off the Shrew Mary. You'll have to pardon Karen, she is none too bright and a coward on top of it. >>>>>>>Hi, >>>>>>>A great "compromise" is to harness-train your cat. With patience and [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > > Uh oh, now you have pissed off the Shrew Mary. :::ducks and hides::: ;) "kitkat" <kitkatluna@aol.commie> wrote > >>> Kawen thaid: > >>>Uh oh. > >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > ;) Heh heh, I scared you! > >>>Hi, > >>>A great "compromise" is to harness-train your cat. With patience and [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > Pam Yes it is. I don't think I was chastising anyone. I just gave my take on the situation from seeing lots of the same kind of posts over the years. Maybe that's what you new people are for--to take care of the ones that some of us just will not bother with, for whatever reason. I'm not going to waste my time on people who enter the group announcing that they are going to do something really dangerous for the cat--such as just opening the door. >>>>>Hi, >>>>>A great "compromise" is to harness-train your cat. With patience and [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > to do something really dangerous for the cat--such as just opening the > door. I hear ya. > >>>>>Hi, > >>>>>A great "compromise" is to harness-train your cat. With patience and [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > > I hear ya. God it is nice to have someone with an IQ that exceeds that of algae posting here regularly. :) >>>>>>>Hi, >>>>>>>A great "compromise" is to harness-train your cat. With patience and [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > God it is nice to have someone with an IQ that exceeds that of > algae posting here regularly. :) I'm just not here to argue and fight. Doesn't mean I wont, but hey, we all think differently and some of us have an ability to let things go....some of us dont. ;) ;) ;) Is this cat neutered? If not, that could explain his desire to do a little wandering. You could take him outside for short bits with a cat harness and a long lead - - at least you would have some control over where he goes and how long he is outside. One of my friends rigged her cat's lead to an overhead line, so the cat could go back and forth the length of the line, and outward the length of the lead. The lead was really long, and the cat had trees to climb, grass and flowers to get lost in, and she kept an eye out so the lead didn't get tangled in the tree and have her end up with a 'hung kitty'. Be careful with that - - it does happen. And he was perfectly happy. Mel > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > > Thanks! Am I crazy? I don't understand. I have so many friends and co-workers with indoor/outdoor cats. And the people I do know who have indoor cats, just absolutely feel like Jail Guards. I don't want to spend my life jailing a cat, that isn't my business in life. If he wanted to stay in I would be the happiest person in the world, but he doesn't. He's not just meowing, he's CRYING. Miserably. It's heartbreaking when he does it. Actually at the moment, he's playing with 2 new mouse toys I bought him today. I got those, I got a bunch of treats and a new bed for the window, to compliment all his other stuff. I decided all I can do is make my home as desirable as possible, so he will want to come back. My Producer just told me a story about his cat that goes away on adventures for days and comes back for days, then goes away for days. And he's totally a happy cat. Unlike my before mentioned friends cat who just cries and claws the door all day. FOR SEVEN YEARS. How would YOU like that life? I'd rather have the life of the wandering cat. So this guy was going to die. I went and got the cat that had been at the shelter the longest. He's a few years old, and got battle scars. He can fend for himself I'm sure... he must have SOME sort of street smarts. Anyhow, I'd be happy to try the harness out. I'm only pessimistic is all. Thanks for your kind words and suggestions about that. As for the people insulting my IQ? What kind of website is this? I thought it was supposed to be an informative BB, not a bunch of bullies. I understand that people don't like to let their cats out, and what their reasons are. But I also think those people underestimate their cats. Cats are pretty amazing, and pretty smart. You're taking away this whole part of their life. Some might say even for your selfish companionship. Of course they love you, you're ALL they got! Give em a choice, and are you frightened they'll find someone with better food? Comfier furniture? I'm giving him a choice to have a good life. Like my friend in Seattle who has 4!! outside cats. They're always laying around his lawn and his bed. And they're always happy. I'm going in circles. Last thing: I had a cat growing up. He was an extraordinary wanderer. The whole neighborhood loved him, and fed him. He was our family cat. He was always smiling. and he lived to be 21. > Am I crazy? I don't understand. I have so many friends and co-workers with > indoor/outdoor cats. And the people I do know who have indoor cats, just > absolutely feel like Jail Guards. I don't want to spend my life jailing a > cat, that isn't my business in life. If he wanted to stay in I would be > the > happiest person in the world, but he doesn't. <snip> Why not try the safe enclosure, like a Kittywalk or something? I don't see where it would hurt just to try it. Signature-Kelly kelly at farringtons dot net "Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG Personally, I feel it just depends on the area you are in. How safe it is. The issue for you is not wanting him to run off get lost and not come back. The best way to ensure that is to go out *with* him for small amounts of time and gradually acclimate him. We had indoor outdoor cats growing up and they did not often come to harm, however, we never let them out when we weren't home and had them in by dark. However, I also think people are less trust worthy these days. So there is more of a peril than there used to be. The best thing to do is supervised outside time if you are in a safe neighborhood (IMO). If I owned a house, I would cat proof the backyard with something like www.catfencin.com stuff. But these are just suggestions. You will ultimately come to find what works for you. I have to agree that *some* cats are meant to go out. However, I don't think they have to wander. > Personally, I feel it just depends on the area you are in. Any area with raccoons, etc., isn't safe. Signaturehttp://www.slywy.com/ > Am I crazy? I don't understand. I have so many friends and co-workers with > indoor/outdoor cats. Where do you live? City? Country? Suburb? On a busy street? There are so many things to consider. But the most important thing is, once you open that door ANYTHING can happen to your cat. It's 5am again, and I've been up for over an hour! He just won't shut up. He goes for hours and hours and hours crying and crying and crying!!!!!!! I need sleep so bad. I dont know what to do, music wont help. I am now going to a hotel down the street to sleep for 3 hours. >It's 5am again, and I've been up for over >an hour! He just won't shut up. He goes [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I am now going to a hotel down the >street to sleep for 3 hours. By letting him out when he cries, you are creating a bigger problem and rewarding him for his behavior. From what you've described, I am certain there will come a point where he will just disappear, or if allowed to roam, will come to harm. Take the advice of CMTowle and get a harness and leash. Take him out on that at about the same time each evening and make it a routine. Also feed him on a 12 hour schedule and make the times as late as possible so he has a later evening meal. Set up a bed and water for him in a room away from your bedroom (the bathroom for example) and confine him there just before you go to bed at night. If you have a window in your bathroom, crack it just a little so he can smell the night air. Use earplugs. You'll have to be consistent and do all of these things. Be patient and the behavior will eventually subside. You've inadvertantly made this situation worse and will take a little time to undo it. Anotherthing youmay want to consider is adopting a friend for your cat that is playful and outgoing. If you do a proper and slow introduction your cat will have a playmate and will have more stuff to do than just think about going outside. Megan Signature"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke Learn The TRUTH About Declawing http://www.stopdeclaw.com Zuzu's Cats Photo Album: http://www.PictureTrail.com/zuzu22 "Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favor all manner of unforeseen incidents, meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamt would have come his way." - W.H. Murray >It's 5am again, and I've been up for over >an hour! He just won't shut up. He goes [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I am now going to a hotel down the >street to sleep for 3 hours. By letting him out when he cries, you are creating a bigger problem and rewarding him for his behavior. From what you've described, I am certain there will come a point where he will just disappear, or if allowed to roam, will come to harm. Take the advice of CMTowle and get a harness and leash. Take him out on that at about the same time each evening and make it a routine. Also feed him on a 12 hour schedule and make the times as late as possible so he has a later evening meal. Set up a bed and water for him in a room away from your bedroom (the bathroom for example) and confine him there just before you go to bed at night. If you have a window in your bathroom, crack it just a little so he can smell the night air. Use earplugs. You'll have to be consistent and do all of these things. Be patient and the behavior will eventually subside. You've inadvertantly made this situation worse and will take a little time to undo it. Anotherthing youmay want to consider is adopting a friend for your cat that is playful and outgoing. If you do a proper and slow introduction your cat will have a playmate and will have more stuff to do than just think about going outside. Megan **And get a HEPA filter for right next to your bed. They help drown out night sounds. > It's 5am again, and I've been up for over an hour! He just won't shut up. > He goes for hours and hours and hours crying and crying and crying!!!!!!! I > need sleep so bad. I dont know what to do, music wont help. Is he specifically crying to be let out, or is he crying at you? > I am now going to a hotel down the street to sleep for 3 hours. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > It's 5am again, and I've been up for over an hour! He just won't shut up. > He goes for hours and hours and hours crying and crying and crying!!!!!!! I > need sleep so bad. I dont know what to do, music wont help. > > I am now going to a hotel down the street to sleep for 3 hours. Do you let him sleep with you if he wants? Where is he at night? does he have the roam of the house or do you shut him somewhere? >Am I crazy? I don't understand. I have so many friends and co-workers with >indoor/outdoor cats. And the people I do know who have indoor cats, just >absolutely feel like Jail Guards. I don't want to spend my life jailing a >cat, that isn't my business in life. If he wanted to stay in I would be the >happiest person in the world, but he doesn't. I would think it all depends on where you are located. If you are by busy highways, I would not let him just wander off. >He's not just meowing, he's CRYING. Miserably. It's heartbreaking when he >does it. Have you tried putting him by an open window? It may help calm him down if he can look outside and watch birds and things. Justin <snip> > Am I crazy? I don't understand. I have so many friends and co-workers with > indoor/outdoor cats. And the people I do know who have indoor cats, just > absolutely feel like Jail Guards. I don't want to spend my life jailing a > cat, that isn't my business in life. If he wanted to stay in I would be the > happiest person in the world, but he doesn't. Well, I got Oscar as a young kitten, and she's never been excessively interested in the outdoors. I don't feel like a jail guard. I've occasionally felt guilty, but I've never lived in an area that's remotely safe for cats. When I first got her, we were in an apartment right on a very busy intersection, and I didn't know my neighbors at all. Then I moved into my brother's townhouse, and the area was still under construction; muddy, loud noises, and uninhabited houses where a cat might get trapped accidentally. Now I live in Colorado, where coyotes and mountain lions are a fact of life. I've seen way too many "lost cat" signs to risk Oscar, who's never encountered a predator in her life. Now, I don't know your cat. I don't know how miserable he is. I know there's a poster on the anecdotes newsgroup who has a cat who gets urinary tract infections, pees all over the place, and bloodies himself in frustration when he can't go outside. There are certainly cats who cannot be happy indoors. I think they're in the minority, but there are some. I don't see the indoor/outdoor question as being as black and white as some do. It does have to do with quality of life. If the cat truly is miserable for its entire existence, maybe letting it go outside is better. Unfortunately, it's opening yourself to a lot of heartache and worrying, too. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca > Am I crazy? I don't understand. I have so many friends and co-workers with > indoor/outdoor cats. And the people I do know who have indoor cats, just > absolutely feel like Jail Guards. I don't want to spend my life jailing a > cat, that isn't my business in life. If he wanted to stay in I would be the > happiest person in the world, but he doesn't. Hi, You do not know yet whether your cat will be perfectly happy inside once he is completely used to his new home. If he has an outlet for climbing, scratching, lounging, a well-screened window from which he can look out into the world, sniff and hear the outdoors he will adapt well. 2 months really isn't a long time for a "battle-scarred" cat that is probably used to having been left outdoors before being in a shelter situation for some time. He is traumatised and wants out which is what he knows. Some people with indoor/outdoor cats either spend a lot of time worrying when their cats don't come home or have cats that do not roam and stay nearby, or simply don't think about where their cat might have been during the day or when they disappear for days/months. Cats adapt *or not* to the dangers of the outdoors and adapting does not necessarily mean that they are happy. But even the most street-smart cat can get accidentally trapped, lost, injured, find himself fighting other cats for food and/or territory, etc. It is simply the luck of the draw and that is one preventable risk you have control over if you choose to share your home with a cat. Your cat doesn't *know* that he is safer indoors; he doesn't *know* what he can run into outside - he deals with it as best he can. Sometimes we have the romanticized notion that life spent outdoors roaming is a life of happiness. It is not so for millions of cats. I think that those of us, who have been exposed through vets, rescue situations, shelters, friends, neighbours, etc. to the horrific consequences of cats being allowed to roam, are more likely to do whatever we possibly can to make cats' lives as safe and yet as pleasurable as possible. And yes, that means providing indoor and outdoor safety if that is possible. In your case, this sounds very feasible and you sound caring enough to make it happen. It will simply take time, persistence, and compassion. > He's not just meowing, he's CRYING. Miserably. It's heartbreaking when he > does it. Given the bit of history you provided, this is entirely plausible. However, it will be much more heartbreaking if he goes out and either never returns, leaving you to wonder what happened to him and it's often not pretty, or returns injured, diseased, poisoned, fea-ridden, emaciated, sick, etc. > Actually at the moment, he's playing with 2 new mouse toys I bought him > today. I got those, I got a bunch of treats and a new bed for the window, > to compliment all his other stuff. Great, if he's playing, he is showing signs of being, at least, somewhat content. >I decided all I can do is make my home > as desirable as possible, so he will want to come back. No, making your home as desirable as possible so that he is equally happy being in a stimulating environment indoors and won't *miss* being outdoors but will enjoy being outdoors with you. In time, the harness is something he just gets used to and means - "oh! goody, we are going out". > My Producer just told me a story about his cat that goes away on adventures > for days and comes back for days, then goes away for days. And he's totally > a happy cat. Unlike my before mentioned friends cat who just cries and > claws the door all day. FOR SEVEN YEARS. How would YOU like that life? I'd > rather have the life of the wandering cat. Your producer's cat has been very lucky so far, that's all. I wouldn't want to take that chance. I love the animals I am lucky enough to share my life with far too much. Even though you portrayed your friend's cat as being well looked after, I have to question whether this cat's needs are being truly met if he claws the door all day. Something is not right. Cats need stimulation, they do get bored and frustrated and they tell us in many ways. This is one of them. He may need a feline companion, he may need more playtime, he may need more vertical space, toys, being walked outdoors, safe outdoor space, screened windows, perches, whatever. This is the sign of a cat that is understimulated and something is making him unhappy. It does not mean his needs can only be met roaming outdoors. > So this guy was going to die. I went and got the cat that had been at the > shelter the longest. He's a few years old, and got battle scars. He can > fend for himself I'm sure... he must have SOME sort of street smarts. He probably does. But that does not mean, clearly, that outdoors is a fun and safe area for him. His battle scars tell you that he has had to fight off other animals/cats. This may be natural for outdoor animals, but it doesn't mean it is a good life. > Anyhow, I'd be happy to try the harness out. I'm only pessimistic is all. > Thanks for your kind words and suggestions about that. I am delighted that you are willing to try the harness. Do make sure you get the walking jacket. They are sturdy, adjustable, and pretty much escape-proof. Please do not be pessimistic. Do follow the instructions, even if your cat seems not to like it in the beginning. Be patient. Let him walk around with it. It does take time and while you are "persuading" him that this will be a fun thing, it will also be a stimulating exercise for him. Something new. Cats are creatures of habit and what they don't know may not please them at first. Patience, patience, patience, and take it at his pace, not yours. > As for the people insulting my IQ? What kind of website is this? I thought > it was supposed to be an informative BB, not a bunch of bullies. The net attracts all kinds of people and the anonymity allows many to be obnoxious or worse. Filter through those, ignore them, and take what is helpful and there is a lot of helpful info. > I understand that people don't like to let their cats out, and what their > reasons are. But I also think those people underestimate their cats. Cats > are pretty amazing, and pretty smart. I agree. Cats are amazing, but we also tend to overestimate their ability to dodge dangers. Some dangers, they simply don't recognize: anti-freeze, sleeping under a car in the shade, going off with a cruel human who feeds them, etc. The unknowns are just too great for my liking. > You're taking away this whole part of their life. Some might say even for > your selfish companionship. Of course they love you, you're ALL they got! > Give em a choice, and are you frightened they'll find someone with better > food? Comfier furniture? Well, since we have domesticated them, we, in reality, are taking many parts of their lives - the hunt for food, procreating and allowing millions more cats to live and die miserably, finding a safe place to sleep, urinate and defecate, competing for territory, mates, etc. I would not be frightened that they will find someone better - I'd be frightened of all of the unknown possibilities outdoors which might very possibly hurt them. > I'm giving him a choice to have a good life. Like my friend in Seattle who > has 4!! outside cats. They're always laying around his lawn and his bed. > And they're always happy. > > I'm going in circles. You will give him a good life - you will give him a better life than he has had. No more battle scars, no more fending for himself, and a stimulating and safe life indoors and outdoors! If we could ask him, he would surely let you know that that's the life he would want. > Last thing: I had a cat growing up. He was an extraordinary wanderer. The > whole neighborhood loved him, and fed him. He was our family cat. He was > always smiling. and he lived to be 21. Times and our environments have changed unfortunately and we need to adapt. Get sleep and do not react whenever he cries; you will be simply reinforcing his behaviour. Thank you for being willing to give your cat the best chance at a good life. He will reward you in many ways. It will take patience and love on your part. And many are here to help you along the way. M. > Message posted via http://www.catkb.com Cmtowle, Thanks so much for all the kind words. Oh my gosh, so much to think about... He is happy, on my lap or desk all day when I'm around. He plays, watches TV. We play with the feather toy, catnip or the wind up mouse. Or he scratches his cardboard thing, or the big carpeted cat furniture. At night, every night, he comes to bed with me. Here he sleeps for 3 to 4 hours. Before, he would either get up, and go look out the window, or just continue to stay in bed. Now since I have been letting him roam around outside - he gets up, goes to the door and cries. For 10 hours straight. No break. His cries are coming through my 'noise reduction' headphones AND Brian Eno music. He is not miserable with me, or my place I know that. He is happy and purring and smiling. He is just a big bad a.s alley cat. He wants to go out. My work is putting me up in a hotel for a few days so I can get sleep (really really deprived, and on set for long long hours). So i will be going back home to play with him for 4 hours, and then on to my hotel to sleep. This weekend I will try a harness. One other thing. He doesn't really run and hide from me, when I take him outside. He rubs up against my legs, and walks around chewing grass and sniffing. It's not that hard to get him and bring him back in (unless he gets under the house). I just need to be able to let him out when he cries, so I can sleep... But he would be alone. I just need to know when it would be okay to let him out alone. Millions of cat owners with outdoor cats must be able to answer this question?? When did you start letting your cat out alone? Thanks again everyone, really appreciate it! Oh yeah, I live in a great bungalow with a yard and fence and palm trees near the water. There is small neighborhood streets nearby, and PCH is a few blocks away. But all my neighbor's cats just stick around here. He's crying right now at the door again =( > Cmtowle, > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > He's crying right now at the door again =( Boy, then if *I* were you, I'd just cat fence that yard and put in a pet door for him. THat's me though. Seriously though, you can do some pretty cool stuff that is also attractive and useful for you. Take a look at this: http://www.lightheartedpress.com/cat_enclosure.htm > Cmtowle, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > break. His cries are coming through my 'noise reduction' headphones AND > Brian Eno music. There you have it. If you had never let him out you would not have this problem. You created the problem. Now summon some patience and deal with him until he forgets about it. > Cmtowle, > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > going back home to play with him for 4 hours, and then on to my hotel to > sleep. I would also suggest you harden up and start training him that crying during the night simply isn't acceptable. 1. Stop allowing him to sleep with you. 2. Make a routine of taking him to a separate room, as far from your bedroom as you can get, with food, water, a litter tray and stuff to play with when you go to bed each night. 3. Close the door 4. Walk away. 5. Go to your bedroom. 6. Close the door 7. Put some earplugs in. 8. Go to sleep. 9. DON'T get up to him at all during the night. Repeat for several days. Problem solved :-) (If you're being put up in a hotel, start doing this when you're in the hotel. That will make it easier for you, and after 2-3 days of no response, he may even be starting to get the message by the time you return to your own bed.) > I just need to be able to let him out when he cries, so I can sleep... But > he would be alone. I just need to know when it would be okay to let him out > alone. Millions of cat owners with outdoor cats must be able to answer this > question?? When did you start letting your cat out alone? Do you have a basement or anywhere in your house that's isolated? If Oscar decides to get feisty at night, I lock her in the basement. She has a litterbox and water there, but I can't hear her. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca Dear God, like I said I'm no Jail Guard. And I like him sleeping with me. What's wrong with you people, they're cats not convicts? And as I said before. He's a big a.s alley cat. He lived outside for a year before I rescued him. I didn't introduce him to the outside. I'm sorry but there are too many narrow minded people on this board for me, I'll be asking my questions elsewhere from now on. Goodbye, enjoy your hog tied, jailbird cats. Skip. And to the people who really tried to help, I wholeheartedly thank you. Skip. > Dear God, like I said I'm no Jail Guard. And I like him sleeping with me. > What's wrong with you people, they're cats not convicts? > > And as I said before. He's a big a.s alley cat. He lived outside for a year > before I rescued him. I didn't introduce him to the outside. If you had brought him in and KEPT him in you would not be having this problem. Skip. You blew it. > I'm sorry but there are too many narrow minded people on this board for me, > I'll be asking my questions elsewhere from now on. > > Goodbye, enjoy your hog tied, jailbird cats. You bet. Ours will surely be around a lot longer than yours if you let him roam. You made a mistake--now deal with it, don't whine about it. Keep him in, and keep him in a room farthest away from yours while you sleep, use earplugs, etc. until he gets acclimated to the outside. Or take the easy way out and open that door and lose him. I have a feeling you are only here to try to justify letting him out where you know he will come to harm anyway. I guess he is just not worth the effort. Mary, you're a hater. I can't stand people like you. The world really isn't that black and white. And you have NO idea what kind of effort I have, and continue to go through, for my cat. I'm really glad I'm not one of your cats. Hopefully when you die, you get reincarnated as a housecat living with a slavedriver like yourself. And I'm not just opening the door and letting him go. I went and got him last time I did that, and he was out for roughly ten minutes. I was delirious from no sleep. I'm taking him out with me, until he gets used to it. Some birds aren't meant to be caged. Mine is one of them. How could you even dare say I don't put out the effort. I haven't slept in 4 days! So thanks for judging me, now I'll judge you. It sounds like your cats are all you got. And even THEY don't like you. B I T C H. > Mary, you're a hater. I can't stand people like you. The world really isn't > that black and white. And you have NO idea what kind of effort I have, and > continue to go through, for my cat. Skip, I appreciate your opinion of me. However, we are talking about your cat. You blew it by letting him out in the first place, and now you are refusing all advice that would allow you to keep him inside where he is safe. My assessment is correct: you came here looking for justification to open that door and put your cat in danger. > I'm really glad I'm not one of your cats. Hopefully when you die, you get > reincarnated as a housecat living with a slavedriver like yourself. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > delirious from no sleep. I'm taking him out with me, until he gets used to > it. Skip, what the hell does this mean? "Until he gets used to it?" What exactly is he getting used to? Do you imagine that going out and standing there for a few times will somehow make him safer when you just open the door and oust him so you can sleep? > Some birds aren't meant to be caged. Mine is one of them. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > B I T C H. That works for me. But the fact still remains that you should not put your cat outside because you are frustrated and are not willing to use the means many others have suggested to get him accustomed to staying in where he is safe. You are not a good guardian, and in fact you are endangering your cat because you are selfish and lazy. Get the goddamned ear plugs and the HEPA filter, and make him a place to stay at night that is far away from where you sleep. If you don't, you are a cat abuser. Personally I would rather be a bitch. Now stop rationalizing and do the right thing. >> B I T C H. See, I was right! Oh, but he forgot the "mean old" in front of it!!! ;> Hugs, CatNipped > That works for me. But the fact still remains that you should not put your > cat outside because you are frustrated and are not willing to use the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > where you sleep. If you don't, you are a cat abuser. Personally I would > rather be a bitch. Now stop rationalizing and do the right thing. > >> B I T C H. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > CatNipped Hahaha! Old Skippy is a bright boy indeed. :) > How could you even dare say I don't put out the effort. I haven't slept in 4 > days! Ever heard the phrase, "Practice doesn't make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect"? You can put in tons of effort, and if you're not trying the right things, you won't see the results you're looking for. Putting a cat in a room where you can't hear it when it's whining so much that you can't sleep (and consequently can't think straight) isn't being a jail guard; it's being sensible! If you make sure the cat has adequate room, toys, water, and a litterbox, it's really not a big deal. Signaturemonique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca What world are you living in?! I'm a cat abuser because I let him outside? So most of my neighbors and friends and co workers are also cat abuser's in your small little mind? You know, I see caged dogs, and poor poor apartment cats sitting in cramped studios gazing longingly out the windows. Those are horrible lives. Don't ever plan on having kids Mary. I'm not looking for justification for letting a cat outside, re-read my first post. I was looking for advice. I think you're a cat abuser for forcing a helpless little animal to live in your crappy little world. > What world are you living in?! I'm a cat abuser because I let him outside? > So most of my neighbors and friends and co workers are also cat abuser's in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I think you're a cat abuser for forcing a helpless little animal to live in > your crappy little world. Okay. But the fact remains that you are going to open the door and leave this cat at the mercy of whatever he encounters outside. Just do it, if that is what you have decided. But don't come to a place where people love cats and expect to be praised for endangering your cat. Grow up, pussy boy. Do the right thing, or do the wrong thing, but take responsibility for your actions. > What world are you living in?! I'm a cat abuser because I let him outside? > So most of my neighbors and friends and co workers are also cat abuser's in [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I think you're a cat abuser for forcing a helpless little animal to live in > your crappy little world. Could you please stop following-up to MY posts, then deleting everything I said and responding to Mary without any context? My newsreader is smart enough to use the References: header to sort messages, so it looks like you're responding to my message, but then I have to read HALF WAY THROUGH your post before I find out you're actually talking about Mary. I realize that you think that this is a webboard, but it's actually a newsgroup; your board just mirrors the contents of the newsgroup. 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