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Advice please

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.oO rach Oo. - 24 Mar 2005 03:49 GMT
I have a good friend that adopted a kitten a few months ago. My friend has
two young children and the cat is amazing with them.  The kids love the cat.

Things started bothering me when she had the cat declawed. I had begged her
not to do it and bought her clippers, suggested soft paws. One day I was
over and the cat was limping around and sure enough, it had been declawed.

Lately, she has been complaining that that Kitty has been going into the one
year old's room and waking her up. I asked did she close the door properly
and apparently she says the cat gets in anyway. I suggested a screen door
(it would keep her toddler out too) but she won't go for it. Today she told
me she was so angry at the cat last night, she threw it down a set of 5
steps. I asked her if she was f.cking crazy and she informed me it had
landed on it's feet. I could frankly care less if it landed on it's feet
singing "dixie".

We have two cats already here and the youngest especially is very jealous of
anyone or anything that takes my attention or pays attention to me. I want
to tell my friend I will take the cat but I also don't want my cats to fret
or be upset. We live in a small apartment and Kitty is used to a nice sized
house.   Should I introduce them slowly and see how it goes? If it doesn't
go well, I couldn't send it off to a shelter. My husband says that our
current cats should be our priority.

If the cat stays with it's family, are there any other suggestions as to
keeping the cat out of the baby's room other than a screen door? My friend
is normally a very kind person but she has a temper and I don't want to see
her just take the cat to a shelter herself.

Sorry about the rambling but I am really wanting more options.

Signature

.oO rach Oo.

Candace - 24 Mar 2005 04:12 GMT
> If the cat stays with it's family, are there any other suggestions as to
> keeping the cat out of the baby's room other than a screen door? My friend
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> --
> .oO rach Oo.

I would take the cat ASAP as it could very well be in danger.  Take it
as though it is a foster cat and be looking actively for a good,
permanent home for it.  Then if, by chance, it gets along well in your
household, you can keep it but, for now, take it as though it is an
emergency situation, which it could very well be.  Poor little kitty.
It only has abuse and neglect in its future living with your friend.
As soon as you get the cat away, I would also terminate the friendship
(but that's just me).  Take the cat for now.

Candace
Karen - 24 Mar 2005 04:25 GMT
> As soon as you get the cat away, I would also terminate the friendship
> (but that's just me).

It is ME too :(
Mary - 24 Mar 2005 04:50 GMT
> > As soon as you get the cat away, I would also terminate the friendship
> > (but that's just me).
>
> It is ME too :(

And me. Her behavior toward the cat tells you something
about her character. She is not to be trusted.
KellyH - 24 Mar 2005 15:33 GMT
> And me. Her behavior toward the cat tells you something
> about her character. She is not to be trusted.

Chiming in with another "me too".  This behavior tells you what kind of
person she really is.  I wonder what she does to the children when she's
angry with them?  Get the cat OUT OF THERE!  Even if she's in your bathroom
for a while, that's better than being abused.  If you can't keep the cat
yourself, be very thorough when you screen people for rehoming.

Signature

-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

Mary - 24 Mar 2005 17:57 GMT
> > And me. Her behavior toward the cat tells you something
> > about her character. She is not to be trusted.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> for a while, that's better than being abused.  If you can't keep the cat
> yourself, be very thorough when you screen people for rehoming.

I feel sorry for her kids, too.
soft - 24 Mar 2005 18:51 GMT
>> in article 1111633938.323339.246420@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com, Candace
>at
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>And me. Her behavior toward the cat tells you something
>about her character. She is not to be trusted.

If she acts that way towards an animal - I can't imagine what the kids
are in for -

well yes I can - I was raised by an abusive father - then married to
an abusive husband - he was cruel to animals and the kids too.
He once told me about my son who was then 10 years old " sometimes you
have to cut off the hand to save the arm"  that was because he was
jealous of the child and wanted to get rid of him.

Karryl

http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/index.html
http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/Mat/index.htm
http://www.elexorr.com/~soft/cats/index.htm

"If a man is a fool, you don't train him out of being a fool by sending him to university. You merely turn him into a trained fool, ten times more dangerous."
----Desmond Bagley.
zuzu22@webtv.net - 24 Mar 2005 04:32 GMT
Take the cat. NOW. Take several weeks to do a slow introduction and the
kitty should fit in just fine. And as far as your friend big a"normally
kind" person "normally kind" people don't throw cats down stairs or so
easily admit to others they did so. If it were me, I would get the cat
out of there and then tell her to FOAD.

Megan

                                   
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Karen - 24 Mar 2005 04:22 GMT
> I have a good friend that adopted a kitten a few months ago. My friend has
> two young children and the cat is amazing with them.  The kids love the cat.
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
> Sorry about the rambling but I am really wanting more options.

Do what you have to, but get that cat out of that house as soon as possible.
If it is young, I bet you have a really good shot at a good integration with
a slow introduction. That woman does NOT need a pet. You COULD report her
for that. Grrrrrrrrrr. Ask her if she is going to belt the baby too :(
Cathy Friedmann - 24 Mar 2005 04:37 GMT
> I have a good friend that adopted a kitten a few months ago. My friend has
> two young children and the cat is amazing with them.  The kids love the cat.
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> is normally a very kind person but she has a temper and I don't want to see
> her just take the cat to a shelter herself.

It's too bad that the kids love the cat, but that their mother's having some
problems with the cat.  Apart from her temper, I don't understand how the
cat is getting into the baby's room if she is shutting the door so that it
catches/latches.  If the door is shut... unless there's a large gap under
it, & kitty is tiny & slithering under it, how is the cat getting in there??

Anyway, apart from your/your husband's own semi-doubts, would she be
amenable to you adopting the cat?  The kids would still get to see/grow up
with it if it lived w/ you?

> Sorry about the rambling but I am really wanting more options.

Actually, I wasn't helpful w/ more options, just had more questions...

Cathy
-L. - 24 Mar 2005 07:32 GMT
> I have a good friend that adopted a kitten a few months ago. My friend has
> two young children and the cat is amazing with them.  The kids love the cat.

Take the cat NOW, and rehome it if necessary.  A declawed cat should be
easy to rehome.

-L.
equalizer - 24 Mar 2005 16:43 GMT
>I have a good friend that adopted a kitten a few months ago. My friend has
>two young children and the cat is amazing with them.  The kids love the cat.
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
>
>Sorry about the rambling but I am really wanting more options.

I would say get the cat out of there. Be very gracious and friendly
about it. Once the cat's out of there, let her know that you've told
this story on the Internet, and that she now in effect has thousands of
eyes on her and that her behavior is in the open. Then, I'd be worried
about what she might do to her kids. An anonymous tip to DSS might be in
order. They're required to check things out. Just mention that she's a
parent and  told you that she flung one of the small dependents living
under her care down some stairs.

eq
Monique Y. Mudama - 24 Mar 2005 20:35 GMT
> I would say get the cat out of there. Be very gracious and friendly about
> it. Once the cat's out of there, let her know that you've told this story on
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> to check things out. Just mention that she's a parent and  told you that she
> flung one of the small dependents living under her care down some stairs.

I disagree here. "small dependent" implies that it was a human child.  If
there's no evidence of that, using that phrasing is wrong.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

CatNipped - 24 Mar 2005 20:43 GMT
>> I would say get the cat out of there. Be very gracious and friendly about
>> it. Once the cat's out of there, let her know that you've told this story
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> I disagree here. "small dependent" implies that it was a human child.  If
> there's no evidence of that, using that phrasing is wrong.

Yes, you're right.  Just saying that there is abuse to a small animal going
on will ring enough alarm bells with the CPS workers to merit an
investigation - no need to pad the truth.

Hugs,

CatNipped
equalizer - 25 Mar 2005 12:19 GMT
>> I would say get the cat out of there. Be very gracious and friendly about
>> it. Once the cat's out of there, let her know that you've told this story on
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>I disagree here. "small dependent" implies that it was a human child.  If
>there's no evidence of that, using that phrasing is wrong.

I disagree. The kitten is just that -- a small dependent. It's also been
proven that those with a disposition towards mistreating animals are
more likely to go on and do the same things to humans. So, that
connections being in place, she telling the child welfare the above is
accurate. How they interpret it is up to them.

eq
Monique Y. Mudama - 25 Mar 2005 15:58 GMT
>>> I would say get the cat out of there. Be very gracious and friendly about
>>> it. Once the cat's out of there, let her know that you've told this story
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> in place, she telling the child welfare the above is accurate. How they
> interpret it is up to them.

I suppose you claim your cats on your income tax forms as "dependents," too
...

Because there's a known trend of animal abuse -> child abuse, you shouldn't
need to exaggerate to get child welfare to pay attention.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

CatNipped - 24 Mar 2005 17:57 GMT
>I have a good friend that adopted a kitten a few months ago. My friend has
>two young children and the cat is amazing with them.  The kids love the
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
>
> Sorry about the rambling but I am really wanting more options.

Like others here, I say get the cat out of there now.  Then report her to
the humane society and Child Protective Services (even if you don't think
there is child abuse going on right now, it is a known fact that a person
who will abuse a helpless animal will also abuse a helpless child, so those
children need help!!).  Please don't allow either the cat *OR* her children
to be without an advocate (you) to help them.  Even if CPS doesn't find any
active abuse they can keep an eye on the situation and hopefully keep any
abuse from happening.  Believe me, anyone who would mutilate a cat has no
empathy, and you *NEED* empathy when rearing children!

Hugs,

CatNipped
melizabeth - 24 Mar 2005 18:12 GMT
> >I have a good friend that adopted a kitten a few months ago. My friend has
> >two young children and the cat is amazing with them.  The kids love the
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
>
> CatNipped

I am 100% behind CatNipped's post.  I think getting the cat out of there is
imperative.  In addition, to reporting her to CPS (its anonymous), I would
keep an eye on the kids to make sure they are okay.  If you choose to report
to CPS (I strongly urge you to), she may not know that it was you (who knows
who else she has told about the kitten), and you can still have contact with
the children.

Good luck!

Could you post a follow up on the situation?  I'm concerned.
.oO rach Oo. - 24 Mar 2005 22:56 GMT
I spoke to her today and told her we would be happy to take the kitty. She
seemed hesitant and then said that when she said "threw her down the stairs"
I took it to literally. She said she just set it down in the basement.  I
told her that if she couldn't handle the cat to just give it to us... we
will manage and get them all to get along.

She then said that she was just going to open the door and let her go. I
lost it. I said that when I was willing to take the cat and have her kids
over any time, why on earth would she be so stupid as to throw away a
DECLAWED kitty? She then said she was just kidding and how I should know she
wouldn't do that so I don't know what to think. I want the cat out of there
but if she says no then how can I prove to the human society that there is a
reason to take the cat out of the home??

Both my cats are unrelated and love each other like sisters so wouldn't that
mean they would adapt easier to a new addition?  I think  they would be
fine.

I will keep you all updated on this situation.

Thank you all so much for your help and advice.

Signature

.oO rach Oo.

>> >I have a good friend that adopted a kitten a few months ago. My friend
> has
[quoted text clipped - 75 lines]
>
> Could you post a follow up on the situation?  I'm concerned.
Karen - 24 Mar 2005 23:39 GMT
Jeez. This woman is definitely not right in her head. SHe may *say* she is
teasing but it sounds like she really wants to do these things. Boy, I don't
know how you can do anything. But I guess my tactic would be that every day
(you said you work together right?) I would just ask her politely if I could
take that kitty off of her hands. One day, I bet you anything she will bite
and when that happens, do not stop. Just follow her home THAT night and
collect the cat.

> I spoke to her today and told her we would be happy to take the kitty. She
> seemed hesitant and then said that when she said "threw her down the stairs"
[quoted text clipped - 97 lines]
> >
> > Could you post a follow up on the situation?  I'm concerned.
.oO rach Oo. - 25 Mar 2005 14:17 GMT
Believe me, the cat carrier is ready.  I will follow your advice and that of
another poster that suggested I take it for a few days as a break to her and
see what happens.

This just gets me thinking of other cats in similar or worse situations. My
husband says I can't adopt all the cats in the world, but I would love to.

Signature

.oO rach Oo.

> Jeez. This woman is definitely not right in her head. SHe may *say* she is
> teasing but it sounds like she really wants to do these things. Boy, I
[quoted text clipped - 137 lines]
>> >
>> > Could you post a follow up on the situation?  I'm concerned.
Karen - 25 Mar 2005 15:55 GMT
No, you can't adopt all cats, but it sure sounds like this one is in a
precarious position. You can certainly act as a foster (although, your cats
would probably get on with it eventually). I will be very curious, if you
are persistant in asking and polite about it, if she won't give in, because
she certainly does not sound like she really wants this cat. You may even
have to offer a bit of monetary trade for the cat. Let us know.

> Believe me, the cat carrier is ready.  I will follow your advice and that of
> another poster that suggested I take it for a few days as a break to her and
[quoted text clipped - 144 lines]
> >> >
> >> > Could you post a follow up on the situation?  I'm concerned.
Mary - 24 Mar 2005 23:51 GMT
> I spoke to her today and told her we would be happy to take the kitty. She
> seemed hesitant and then said that when she said "threw her down the stairs"
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> DECLAWED kitty? She then said she was just kidding and how I should know she
> wouldn't do that so I don't know what to think.

This malicious bitch is pushing your buttons. TAKE the cat. Just walk in,
say hi, here kitty, and get the f out of there. What is she going to do?
KellyH - 25 Mar 2005 04:40 GMT
>I spoke to her today and told her we would be happy to take the kitty. She
>seemed hesitant and then said that when she said "threw her down the
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Thank you all so much for your help and advice.

Sheesh!!  This woman has serious problems.  Normal people just don't say
stuff like that, joking or not.
Maybe you could offer to take the cat for a couple days, to "give her a
break".  I'm betting she will let you keep her.
I think your cats will adjust with slow introductions.
Signature

-Kelly
kelly at farringtons dot net
"Wake up, and smell the cat food" -TMBG

Mel - 25 Mar 2005 07:32 GMT
Hi: I agree with everyone else who feels that it is critical to kitty's safety to leave your friend's home.  She seems to be a bit of a loose cannon with her temper, which is quite frightening considering she has small children.  

Anyone who would get angry enough to grab a tiny creature and fling it . . . what does she do when the baby keeps her up endlessly?  Or to the toddler when the baby has been crying nonstop?  I feel for those children, because if she cannot keep her temper in check over a small issue like a kitten getting into the baby's room, then her children irritating her are going to really be cause for concern.

I cannot imagine that she shut her baby's door tightly, as stated, as I have never met a kitten talented enough to open a tightly shut door yet.  

If the kitten's waking the baby was such a big issue, she could have put him/her in the basement for the night.

I just wanted to point something out. Quote from your post right after this occurred " she threw it down a set of 5 steps. I asked her if she was f.cking crazy and she informed me it had landed on it's feet."  Then she later tries to tell you that you took it too literally?!  That she just put it in the basement? I don't see how throwing it down a flight of 5 steps can be misconstrued for putting it in the basement.  

The advice of those who know which authorities you have to deal with, I say, go for it.  There are children and an animal involved here, and the sooner you get that cat out of that household, and someone keeping an eye on the welfare of those children, the better.

Sometimes, we do not want to believe the worst about someone that we think of as our friend.  Unfortunately, if there are innocents involved, that is exactly what me must come to terms with.  

Good luck, keep us posted, and all my best wishes and positive thoughts are sent your way!

Melody (from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, in the approximate centre of Canada)

>I spoke to her today and told her we would be happy to take the kitty. She
> seemed hesitant and then said that when she said "threw her down the stairs"
[quoted text clipped - 97 lines]
>>
>> Could you post a follow up on the situation?  I'm concerned.
Meghan Noecker - 25 Mar 2005 10:04 GMT
>She then said that she was just going to open the door and let her go. I
>lost it. I said that when I was willing to take the cat and have her kids
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>but if she says no then how can I prove to the human society that there is a
>reason to take the cat out of the home??

Get a small digital recorder, and record your conversations with her.
Then, you may have something to get them interested. It can't be used
legally against her, but it would at least show the humane society
that she is saying these things.

It sounds to me like she is really trying to upset you, or she is
completey clueless.

Signature

--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew  
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

Mary - 25 Mar 2005 19:02 GMT
> >She then said that she was just going to open the door and let her go. I
> >lost it. I said that when I was willing to take the cat and have her kids
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> legally against her, but it would at least show the humane society
> that she is saying these things.

Now this is a great idea. I have a non-digital recorder the
size of maybe 2 cigarette packs that has a voice-controlled
microphone. It cost maybe 40 bucks at Radioshack a few
years ago and is soundless. Even it could be slipped into
a shoulder bag to record this piece of &%$#.
Monique Y. Mudama - 25 Mar 2005 19:40 GMT
>> Get a small digital recorder, and record your conversations with her.
>> Then, you may have something to get them interested. It can't be used
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> bucks at Radioshack a few years ago and is soundless. Even it could be
> slipped into a shoulder bag to record this piece of &%$#.

I seem to remember after the whole Monica Lewinski things that some laws were
changed such that not only could unauthorized recordings not be used as part
of prosecution, but recording people without their consent was also a crime.
I may be wrong, but it's best to check this sort of thing out before
proceeding.  This may just have been in the DC area.

Signature

monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully

pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

Meghan Noecker - 26 Mar 2005 10:47 GMT
>>> Get a small digital recorder, and record your conversations with her.
>>> Then, you may have something to get them interested. It can't be used
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>I may be wrong, but it's best to check this sort of thing out before
>proceeding.  This may just have been in the DC area.

The recordings can't be used legally, but they are not illegal to do.

Just imagine all those hidden camera stories done on the news. Those
are recordings made without consent.

In my case, I told both the store security, and the union, and they
said I was fine in doing it, that it was actually a good idea to
protect myself. I also took my digital camera to work and photographed
many of the violations on a regular basis.

Signature

--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew  
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

Mary - 26 Mar 2005 15:27 GMT
> >>> Get a small digital recorder, and record your conversations with her.
> >>> Then, you may have something to get them interested. It can't be used
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> protect myself. I also took my digital camera to work and photographed
> many of the violations on a regular basis.

This is great to know.
Meghan Noecker - 26 Mar 2005 10:43 GMT
>> Get a small digital recorder, and record your conversations with her.
>> Then, you may have something to get them interested. It can't be used
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>years ago and is soundless. Even it could be slipped into
>a shoulder bag to record this piece of &%$#.

I have a bad boss at work, so I have been carrying a recorder now for
about 6 months. It fits in my apron pocket, down out of view. It has a
small mike on a wire, and I have the mike attached to the top of my
poket, just inside. It makes no sound, and it can record up to 8 hours
without having to worry about flipping or changing a tape. When I get
something important, such as my boss making a flippant comment about
another coworker, talking about breaking rules, or when I was called
into a meeting; I just record it off onto a regular cassette tape for
longterm storage.

I was called into the office 2 days after I bought the recorder. I had
reported several heath violations, and I knew I would be in for an
unhappy meeting. I was in the office for over an hour with my
department manager and the store manager. The department manager is
the main problem, but she is the store manager's favorite employee,
brought over from his old store. So, he backs her up on everything. I
was so glad I had a digital recorder. It recorded the whole thing,
over an hour and a half.

I may never use it for anything, but I do have a record of everything
said, just in case I ever need it. A year before, in a similar
meeting, I was threatened with morning shifts I complained. I am a
severe night owl, and I had worked evening shifts for the past 14
years. If only I had recorded that meeting, I could have taken it to
the union and actually proved a case of harrassment and threats.

Also, I was able to listen to it again that night, and frankly, I was
shocked at how brave and outspoken I was. I am usually very quiet when
trapped alone like that, but I brought up a lot of issues, and held my
ground well. I played it for my coworker friend, who has been
harrassed even more than me, and we laughed ourselves silly. You could
hear my boss when she was angry and sputtering for words. And the
store manager actually agreed with me on a couple issues.

I just wish I had remembered to change the batteries yesterday. The
safety coordinator was in, and one of our big issues is wearing teh
safety gloves when using a knife or cleaning a slicer. My manager
asked me where the lady was, and I told her she had left. Her response
was, "good, I don't want to wear the gloves." She then proceeded to
clean the slicer without the gloves.That would have been a great
comment to have recorded. By itself, no big deal, but a bunch of
those, well documented, and I would have something worthwhile to
present.

Document your case as best you can. Write down the dates and times,
and a review of the conversation. Record anything you can in the
future, and keep it all documented. The tape won't hold up in court,
though the written reports should be good. But the tapes will prove to
the investigators that the case is worth going after. It proves that
you are telling teh truth and not just making something up.

Signature

--
Meghan & the Zoo Crew  
Equine and Pet Photography
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com

Mary - 26 Mar 2005 15:26 GMT
> >> Get a small digital recorder, and record your conversations with her.
> >> Then, you may have something to get them interested. It can't be used
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> I have a bad boss at work, so I have been carrying a recorder now for
> about 6 months.

Hee! You go, Meghan!!

It fits in my apron pocket, down out of view. It has a
> small mike on a wire, and I have the mike attached to the top of my
> poket, just inside. It makes no sound, and it can record up to 8 hours
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>
> --

I love people who stand up for themselves.
 
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